Trump in the dock & Israel's Arab allies - The Week in 60 Minutes | SpectatorTV

Freddy Gray speaks to Lionel Shriver on the rise of political prosecution, particularly in the US and UK. Also on the show: journalist Paul Wood and historian Charlie Gammell take us inside the new Arab-Israeli alliance, political correspondent Ava-Santina Evans and commentator Matt Goodwin give their take on the NatCon shutdown, and Spectator Editor Fraser Nelson and journalist Zoe Strimpel debate whether teenagers should be banned from owning smartphones.
00:00 - Welcome from Freddy Gray
03:25 - What’s behind the rise of political prosecution? With Lionel Shriver
26:08 - Inside the Arab-Israeli alliance. With Paul Wood and Charlie Gammell
43:43 - The NatCon Brussels shutdown. With Matt Goodwin and Ava-Santina Evans
53:47 - Why shouldn’t teenagers be allowed to use WhatsApp? With Fraser Nelson and Zoe Strimpel
// SUBSCRIBE TO THE SPECTATOR
Get 12 issues for £12, plus a free £20 John Lewis/Waitrose voucher
www.spectator.co.uk/tvoffer
// FREE PODCASTS FROM THE SPECTATOR
Hear more from The Spectator's journalists on their podcasts, covering everything from the politics of the UK, US and China, to religion, literature, lifestyle and more.
www.spectator.co.uk/podcasts/
// FOLLOW US
/ spectator
/ officialspectator
/ the-spectator
/ spectator1828
/ thespectatormagazine
Theme song written and performed by Jon Barker © 2020 Jonathan Stewart Barker
Publisher Jonathan Stewart Barker 100%, administered by prsformusic.com
Recording © 2020 Jonathan Stewart Barker 100%, administered by ppl.com

[@sgb6476]

Ava is a muppet, it was a conference not a protest, silly girl

[@russellgreenwood819]

Ava who made light of male suicide . . . great pic spectator 👍 sickening.

[@DailyCorvid]

She's pondslime.

[@iffler2542]

Ava is just dishonest. She doesn't argue in good faith.

[@DD-gt2cv]

I think Zoe is talking drivel. What children need is actual F2F communication not staring at a 3 inch by 4 inch screen all day long.

[@JohnLumgair]

Yeah, clearly not engaged with the data.

[@mark6809mm]

Ava is totally out of her depth here!

[@DailyCorvid]

She'd be out of her depth inside of a petri dish!

[@sue.F]

Ava felt like it was a protest and felt Braverman’s speech inconsistent, but feelings don’t pass as good arguments even in this upside-down world.

[@sisiphas]

Over diagnosing children is a huge issue

[@theoutsider6191]

It doesn't stop with kids.... just look at the number of adults on various antidepressants....

[@lindalaw5466]

So disappointed to see Ava Santini, or whatever she calls herself this week. I wouldn’t trust her as far as I could throw her.

[@eddierxx124]

Ava is just awful, awful at being interviewed, awful on panel shows, awful opinions and is on an awful lot of things these days. Why places such as spectator and TalkTV have her on is beyond me.

[@sgb6476]

What Mr Fox said is so true, why are the spectator giving her airtime??

[@grahamotton5796]

@@sgb6476 I would...

[@sgb6476]

@@grahamotton5796 😱

[@lechenaultia5863]

I switch off when Santini appears.

[@mikegray8776]

So Ava Santina now has a second surname. Profoundly unsurprising.

[@ralphdavidson9542]

Sorry, for me Ava doesn't have the credentials. Watched her on talkTV lots of times talking absolute claptrap and getting called out for it. Spectator can do better!

[@allancrotch2953]

Can you judge a book by its cover ? totally

[@allancrotch2953]

Sorry I was thinking of the other nutter

[@DailyCorvid]

Ava doomed her career when she first appeared. She traded it for a bunch of sycophant twitter followers lol.

[@sisiphas]

Indeed

[@randomobserver683]

She's sociopathic and completely dishonest

[@anainasen]

Ava is distorting facts when she calls the conference a protest. It was a conference, an intellectual discussion in a room, not a riot in the streets. She calls the conference a protest because the presentations are different from her own political views and and from the "politically correct" views on immigration policy and over-national institutions.

[@joycejnn]

Exatly

[@joycejnn]

The woman defending social media for children should have done some research ... she hasn’t a clue and very opinionated . Well done Fraser in putting her right

[@deputyVH]

*done some research* I think you meant

[@ZoeStrimpel-rp7vt]

She has done some research - she just has a perspective YOU don't agree with - from, 'the woman defending social media'

[@msirma0077]

Took about downplaying the truth. This is not about Rayner putting the wrong address on her electoral registration form. This is about Rayner claiming that a property she owned, but did not live in, was her main residence and thereby defrauding the taxman out of tens of thousands of pounds in Capital Gains Tax when she sold it.

[@michaelsimpson4400]

This is my main gripe when people say "oh it's only £1,500". Well if some old lady was robbed of £1.5k people would care. The only difference is it has been stolen (allegedly) from the population as a whole.

[@johnnicholson369]

Tens of thousands??!! Estimates are £3500 max. And how much tax did Sunak's wife avoid as a non-dom?

[@michaelsimpson4400]

@@johnnicholson369 There is no indication Rishi Sunak's wife she didn't pay the tax she was legally obliged to. You may not like the tax laws but that is different from possibly defrauding the taxpayer. Avoidance vs evasion.

[@Tonyv1951]

@@johnnicholson369 BONKERS! Sunac's wife was fully entitled not to pay tax on her foreign earnings here. She paid tax on them in India. How stupid do you have to be not to understand that a foreigner with foreign earnings who retains their main residence in a foreign tax domain is FULLY entitled to the provisions of the Non Dom rules. Rayner is accused of falsifying her real address to fraudulently EVADE tax. I know Labour people can't get this, as witnessed by the numbers of Labour MPs who went to jail over the shocking expenses scandal when they fraudulently forged invoices for expanses they did not have and lied in claiming money. This is a world apart from applying for reimbursement for moat cleaning or a duck house. Rayner probably committed a crime by deliberately committing fraud. Sunac's wife applied the rules as she was entitled to do. Sunac's big mistake was in bowing to the howling of left wing jackals like you.

[@TheMOV13]

I wouldn't say that the Nicola Sturgeon investigation is about something trivial, it's very large sums of money not accounted for.

[@EXISTENCE1891]

One of the best music intros. (from a professional musician)

[@barkebaat]

Yes, it's a good little tinkle, isn't it?

[@donner101]

How the fuck is an indoor conference in a private venue a protest?

[@sue.F]

Thank you Lionel Shriver for putting into words why I didn’t give a toss about the beer or the cake either.

[@jimbo-yv5jh]

banning smart phones from children should be the parent's responsibility not the government.

[@dylanblackhurst2832]

I would normally totally agree with you. But we don't allow kids to drink alcohol... you could make the argument that smart phones are even more addictive.

[@jimbo-yv5jh]

@@dylanblackhurst2832 the parents have control over what they drink. maybe we should have a large screen in the home much like 1984?

[@user-fu4iw5dx3f]

Kids need attention and occupying, mobiles take away a parents ability to do this, mobiles are toys and children have too much more to learn, parents are proving that they cannot control there childrens "addictions" to these toys, so parents have themselves to blame for the necessity of government interference!

[@dylanblackhurst2832]

@@jimbo-yv5jh I get the libertarian bit. I really do. But we don't allow children to: • Have a tattoo • Drink alcohol • Smoke I'm not saying they shouldn't have a phone. They shouldn't have a smart phone. And as far as the 1984 reference goes, what do you think is going in with a smart phone? It's every bit as invasive.

[@hosephanerothe1440]

From Peter Hitchens ... To Ava ... What a drop in standards. Please dont invite back

[@jackbebad]

Wow, that's the first time I've ever agreed with Ava Evans and she actually came across as a moderate. Who would have thunk it!

[@RichardEnglander]

8:38 the thing about Angela Raynor is that she holds everyone else to these puritanical standards and calls for them to resign, shes being hoisted by her own petard. And then that wss the phrase used as i was writing...

[@michaelsimpson4400]

£1,500 is not petty! If someone stole that from you, you wouldn't call it petty!

[@tom5216]

Fully with a ban on smartphones for children. The amount of bullying and peer abuse carried on on mobile phones is largely hidden from adults.

[@DailyCorvid]

Ban twittok!

[@DS9TREK]

That's on the parents. They should control what their kids do on their phones. It's not difficult to install a Google app that deactivates certain apps, limits screen time and requires parental permission to install apps. Banning kids from having phones is stupid when you can't even enforce it anyways and you could just let parents be parents.

[@DailyCorvid]

Why can't you enforce it exactly? Do your children run the house? That's a poor excuse. Like you say it's on the parents. It's easy to stop your kids brainwashing themselves on the phone, it just takes a little thought and some effort. They could actually set an example by using phones a lot less themselves as well! But I know how people are, they're like children themselves they require being sat with a phone like a 3 year old. Social media should be requiring credit cards for accounts, that would improve the experience of using it 100 fold. No more fake bots or silly tantrums from children, and fines for breaking the law.

[@iliyakuryakin4671]

Poor episode. Shriver complaining about pursuing Rayner for potential illegality, couple of dudes taking a basically anti Israel line, Ava SE taking the left wing line on censorship and the awful Zoe gob on a stick' Strimpel. Freddy Gray not challenging any of this whilst dismissing the Overton Window as a 'ridiculous right wing' thing. And Gray didn't shave or do his tie up properly.

[@oliverc1961]

Just a small correction: Lionel Shriver says "the Democrats got there first" in questioning the validity of US elections. But before Hillary questioned the validity of Trump's election (alleging Russian interference swung the vote in his favour), Trump had questioned the validity of Obama's presidency (the birther issue). It happens. It's an ugly and destructive part of the game.

[@pauldavis3460]

Good point. The whole process of degrading the legitimacy of a political opponent at national level is a negative spiral. It’s barely relevant who started what. The point is , I think , is that both sides are guilty. But i agree with her. Maybe wrongly, that it seems to have reached a new level in the US , currently. The endless warfare from prosecutors elected to ‘get Trump’ is a travesty of the legal process and merely takes us all more downward.

[@Kahuczech]

Lionel coming out in defence of the Space hopper, hilarious ....

[@maiq5228]

Why is the spectator convinced that politicians should be above the law?

[@jamessmith1652]

The police intervention had nothing to do with the EU, come on.

[@monsieurgrigny]

The most stimulating programme of the week. Freddy the model of the best presenter - clear, and self-assured. Not a word falls by the wayside.

[@Chrisdavies33]

Isn’t Ada the one who signed an NDA when she left LBC for an incident with James O’Brien

[@Andy-zu3tv]

Ava is an absolute dolt. I tuned into this because I expected a serious intelligent discussion and I get Ava! Please

[@lk4136]

`we should focus on the ideological crap that teachers are throwing at them`, Yes Zoey kids are impressionable so we should be mindful to what they are exposed to.

[@RichardEnglander]

Does Ava only loke free speech when she likes what is said? Ehat happened st thwt conference was akin to how Soviet Russia treated anybody who wasn't a commie, they bamned centrist and right wing conferences.

[@lechenaultia5863]

Not interested in Ava Santina Evans' fashionable but ignorant opinions. How has she acquired the title 'political journalist'?

[@harryschiller5368]

Fraser is right, smartphones are time sucks for children and detract from exercise and socializing and reading

[@hamidhamidi3134]

Well, she is actually advocating lawlessness . Then scrap the law. Make it free for all.

[@AndyJarman]

America promotes a man in a dress to the rank of Admiral, does anyone think this impresses those expected to respect the American armed forces? It would be self evident to them that the US has failed as a force capable of excerting its will.

[@ExileGilby64]

Zoe... Get out of bed, brush your hair and get some fresh air!

[@theoutsider6191]

Lionel is spot on again herein. The petty squabbling and cheap points scoring of current generation politicians is causing them problems, and undermines the system. I never liked Trump, but could always laugh about the crazy stuff he says and does and gets away with somehow. Others get massively bent out of shape and want him banned from office. Well, the reality of demogracy is the winner wins. And within democracy it is fundamentally important to respect the office. You do not have to like the holder of the office though.

[@tomlindsay101]

The reality of democracy is the rule of law should be upheld regardless of status. He broke the law and should face the consequences, regardless of optics. Same applies to Democrats currently under investigation like Bob Menedez.

[@exebit9366]

1:05 That explains it!! She never had any friends.

[@ianfinnity2732]

Does that mad woman at the end who’s spent her life without ever brushing her hair expect anyone out here to take her opinions seriously ?

[@ZoeStrimpel-rp7vt]

Yep. And wow - so many men with strict opinions about ladies' hair. Have YOU actually got any, Ianfinnity2732? #askingforafriend

[@ianfinnity2732]

@@ZoeStrimpel-rp7vt yes thank you. Stop projecting.

[@paulpenfold2352]

@@ZoeStrimpel-rp7vt So many men? it's one comment. If you made a sweeping comment like that at work people would think you were planning something.

[@DaboooogA]

Ava hasn't even got a career!

[@VPPartner]

This government was not elected to send immigrants to Rwanda. It was not a manifesto commitment.

[@stevesmith3990]

Agree with Lionel Shriver 100%. Ava is deliberately missing the point and avoiding the true question.

[@ThyCorylus]

Internet chat is NOT the same as in person communication which is a skill in of itself. I'm surprised there isn't more data on this. Most millennials were raised with unbridled access to the internet during their formative years. Subsequent generations have been immersed in it from birth. I question the intent of those wishing unbridled internet access for adolescents.

[@davidevans6514]

There is an issue with Matt Goodwin's argument in terms of proving a direct causal link between the EU and the actions of the Brussels mayor. However, Ava Santina Evans is not the person to make that argument. She is someone who regularly debates Piers Morgan and ends up making him look intelligent. That is quite an achievement!

[@lmr3639]

I think prosecution is worth it when the health of the entire nation has been put at risk.

[@RichardDavies-pf4dd]

So four more years of war,open borders,woke insanity,crime,a demented Biden or an idiotic Harris as commander in chief,a bent justice system,declining living standards.To hell with a fair and balanced justice system.Do what the totalitarians do to save the country?

[@tomlindsay101]

And when someone has broken the law. What would it say if they didn't face prosecution just because they are running for office? Democrats, Republicans or PInk Polkadots, you commit a crime you should be held acocuntable, regardless of status.

[@RichardDavies-pf4dd]

@@tomlindsay101 You seem to miss the point that all these accusations and trials are very likely to be politically motivated and have zilch to do with justice.

[@tomlindsay101]

@@RichardDavies-pf4dd Did Trump break the law? Quite clearly, in all four prosecutions. Should anyone be above the law? No. Does it matter who the prosecution is? No. Also if you don't prosecute someone who has broken the law purely because of their political affiliation or the fact they are running for office that is also politically motivated. So either the rule of law stands and stands for everyone or it ceases to exist.

[@RichardDavies-pf4dd]

@@tomlindsay101 Again you miss the point that no one should be charged BECAUSE THEY ARE A POLITICAL OPPONENT. This was done in Soviet Russia to eliminate dissenters by the Communist regime.Called show trials.You seem to have found him guilty before any conviction.He would not have been charged if he was not running for reelection.

[@exebit9366]

1:04 I wonder how many kids she has?

[@jimbo-yv5jh]

what does Charlie mean when he says Palestine? a measured response, a foreign country launching 300 missiles? good old Eva, a conference is the same as protest marches?

[@nickgood8166]

For God's sake Fraser it's not 'nucular' .... It's nu-clear learn it, practice it. Here's a trick... Think new, as in new car, think clear as in clear window. Now concatenate them... new-clear. This is not difficult!

[@allangriffiths9555]

Zoey Strimpel: Alarming hair; Sensible based views. Go Zoey!

[@ZoeStrimpel-rp7vt]

Thanks Allan! The hair won't bite.

[@TheMagicLemur]

Lionel Shiver's arguments do seem a bit weak. It's like she's suppressing the side of her that (rightly) dislikes Trump.

[@AndyJarman]

There is a distinct lack of parental authority, or parenting full stop, in the Whatsapp and the SNP "stirring up" legislation discussed here. There are half as many children being born in the UK as opposed to forty years ago. Children do not become socialised offline. The important distinction between real and virtue communication is being lost. Should children REALLY be being encouraged or even permitted to communicate via the internet? We know what this is doing to grownups?

[@MoranM]

Did Ms Evans really draw an equivalence between a (deliberately) disruptive public protest and a private event? And are opinions about secure borders and maintaining a national identity really 'outrageous'? If so, I have a lot of indigenous groups throughout the world that I would like to introduce her to. I don't watch Politics Joe because I'd rather listen to grown-ups who know more than me and think more deeply than I have. The Spectator is entitled to turn into a crèche but that may have an impact upon the viewer demographic.

[@claranordblom8968]

American and Israeli policy in the middle east is short sighted and so wrong .. so far.. leading to a sequence of destruction. This policy : time to change. If any peace is to be achieved an encouragement is needed by the west to all Arabs to back up a free existence between Israelis and Palestinians: this will require a true and integral attitude by the west to facilitate such a unified engagement. Your guest is giving too much importance to the Shia and Sunni division for, at this stage - it is not going to matter as it is time to accept the living together !!! Seriously.. the Israelis need to accept their neighbours.

[@jamesgill6213]

the gleeeeeee ........Feddie HATES Trump

[@SepulchreBrit]

Highlight was seeing thick Ava Santorini blah blah was

[@neilrobson3064]

“Whatever you think of the individual cases” - how about “I think he might be guilty”?

[@aclark903]

I think America needs him back in the White House.

[@neilrobson3064]

@@aclark903So he can play golf for four more years - when he’s not simping for Vladimir…..

[@aclark903]

@@neilrobson3064 That’s President Putin to you, Robson lad.

[@neilrobson3064]

@@aclark903Not for much longer - a man so afraid of his own shadow that he has the KGB prepare his meals for him.

[@neilrobson3064]

@@aclark903A “strongman” so afraid he has the KGB prepare his food for him……

[@johnnicholson369]

What planet is Goodwin on? Professor?? How on earth?

[@triggerhappy3034]

Not Ava Santina Whatever Her Other Name Is This Week, please…we expect better from The Spectactor

[@NPC-st7zv]

Is Lionel voting for Biden again?

[@DailyCorvid]

Lionel votes for Xi who pays the wages

[@galewhite9723]

Publuc protest curtailed!! Dont you watch the new😂s of angry islam marches unrestrainrd? Police taking away anybody who disagreedwith them? Or the arrest of the lady praying by herself? All impartial of course

[@MarcusCorbett]

Iran"s Atta k was more a deterrent than anything else. They knew which missiles would not make it and which ones would probably do so. This means Iran can remove Israel's ability to fly so now they will have to behave. The game is almost up.

[@aclark903]

This aged well.

[@adamjackson6887]

"...I think defining public nuisance in law is very dangerous..." except it IS defined and HAS been defined for decades. Its not an invention of Suella Braverman or Tony Blair. Its a part of Tort Law. The issue isnt the legal definiton of public nuisance. The issue is the extent to which the state can intefere with the Civil right to protest or the Human Right of freedom of Assembly. Again...those have ALWAYS been qualified rights. This isnt a new issue. For goodness sake, research the actual law and how it works.

[@turquoiseowl]

Shriver and her stalling, oh-so-earnest delivery are beginning to wear.

[@martinhsl68hw]

What do the women on this video think about the disgusting article from Lloyd Evans?

[@DailyCorvid]

Lionel is a very confused person.

[@Beach_comber]

I don't get Lionel's argument this week. It seems to be that we all commit crimes and so politicians shouldn't be prosecuted if they commit crimes. I don't think I've committed any crimes. What are the laws for if breaking them is to be ignored?

[@user-ep4tk4bv7b]

We are nowhere near WW3. Stop the jingoism.

[@abdulhuskey4356]

we need trump than ever. btw the heck this lady talking about? she want america to be weak by all means

[@hugor1338]

Ironic to have a middle-aged woman representing PoliticsJoe ‘for the under 35s’. If she’s under 35 then it’s been a rough old life.

[@user-fu4iw5dx3f]

If we are going to allow joe bloggs to attain such great heights as running a country, then they are always going to have a less than perfect life or lifestyle. Hopefully politics will start to attract people with morals and good standards and deter chancers.

[@paulpenfold2352]

Are you not a little bit concerned that our next prime minister led the cheerleading for harder lockdown while himself never deviating from the rules? It gives me the creeps.

[@vladtheimpaler8995]

Israel will respond as it always does .Effectively and humanely. Despite what the usual activists project.

[@VillaParasol]

Shriver is usually poor, smug, jerky of logic and delivery, but this havering is the worst for a long time. Worth watching, to see just how vacuous she is.

[@iliyakuryakin4671]

Indeed. Her defence of Rayner is ridiculous. The accusation is she broke the law to avoid capital gains tax and to retain a discount on her right to buy property. Trump is deeply flawed but the evidence that he broke the law is weak. But Shriver is an anti Trumper so surprise perhaps.

[@academicproofreadingservices]

Whatsapp is such a strange choice for a ban. In fact, I would go as far as to ban under-16 access to every social media platform EXCEPT Whatsapp. Take the young teenagers and primary school children away from the far more visual TikTok and Instagram where they are too young for sex-oriented posting and where they can be groomed by gender ideologues.

[@GET_YOUTUBE_VIEWS_m021]

You're a game-changer.

[@claranordblom8968]

American and Israeli policy in the middle east is short sighted and so wrong .. so far.. leading to a sequence of destruction. This policy : time to change. If any peace is to be achieved an encouragement is needed by the west to all Arabs to back up a free existence between Israelis and Palestinians: this will require a true and integral attitude by the west to facilitate such a unified engagement. Your guest is giving too much importance to the Shia and Sunni division for, at this stage - it is not going to matter as it is time to accept the living together !!! Seriously.. the Israelis need to accept their neighbours.