'We aren't a serious country': Matt Goodwin on where the liberal revolution went wrong | SpectatorTV

Matthew Goodwin, author of the bestseller ‘Values, Voice and Virtue’ talks to Winston about the divide in British politics between cosmopolitans and traditionalists, the controversy surrounding the National Conservative Conference, and the future of the Conservative and Labour parties.
// CHAPTERS
00:00 - Introduction
01:26 - Matt's new book and who are the 'new elites'?
10:44 - How salient are cultural issues to voters?
18:39 - The politics of immigration and what the Tories should be doing
26:43 - Do the Tories have the answers for today's problems?
28:34 - The National Conservative Conference and why it caused such a backlash
36:30 - The case for national conservatism
43:43 - How globalisation failed communities and local people
50:10 - How the cosmopolitan 'new elite' are shaping British politics
56:33 - Are people questioning the liberal national consensus?
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#politics #brexit #immigration #migration #woke

[@azar1354]

'We aren't a serious country' is the best description of the current state of affairs I've heard in a long time.

[@davidpaterson2309]

When you have a government that got to power by ridiculing the concept of expertise (shame on you, Gove) in favour of slogans, you can hardly expect otherwise.

[@elingrome5853]

"We arent a serious country" - whatever your political allegiances, you must surely agree with that sentiment... what a joke we, and most of the western world, have become

[@nightwingtrp7399]

"Most tories are status conscious" - you mean cowards, Matt. They're cowards.

[@piggypiggypig1746]

Not just Tories, they all are. Starmer, can’t say what a woman is. They’re all career politicians, never done a days work, in it for themselves.

[@zeno2501]

"60% of social housing in London is going to people who aren't British." 25:30. Unbelievable. Absolutely appalling.

[@helenn6061]

You should see the number of houses being bought up by Indian students on a 20 hour a week work contract, getting a deposit sent in from India..

[@fairislecat6413]

Then the progressives shout racism when local white communities point this out.

[@tylerblack676]

Unbelievable? It’s very believable. What do you think has been happening?

[@raevj]

@@d38yv4 you guys better stop now or Britain & many other European cultures WILL DIE.

[@leonardgibney2997]

You get what you vote for.

[@kencharles9612]

We used to make things. Now we make believe. And can't tell the difference.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

Facts^

[@Pfeffa]

Yes, well said 🍻

[@SamOwen55]

To hell with everything if we can't keep our country for ourselves and pass on the great traditions. To hell with everything else. If we can't do this for our own children then there is no meaning in anything anymore.

[@aerogray2500]

I agree. We are 20 years (or less) from the UK's identity changing FOREVER. I am truly shocked that most people simply refuse to do anything about it!!

[@evolassunglasses4673]

Agree. A homeland is more than an economic zone open to the World.

[@sallyedwards7162]

Couldn't agree more, and the thing is the BRITISH TAX PAYER is funding these economic immigrants lazy, greedy, hand rubbing lives

[@johndale1300]

@@aerogray2500 how can when you live in a police state or better put a archo tryanny were laws are selectively enforced

[@RichardEnglander]

I agree with 95% of what Matt says, and I consider myself to be old school left of centre blue Labour type. The political compass in this nation is destroyed.

[@daveedwards7366]

Very interesting because I'm not leftist but still agree with this guy 95% too.

[@MrXaphus]

Consider joining the SDP

[@robmorgan1214]

Same here.

[@RichardEnglander]

@@MrXaphus I follow them, but I'm reluctant to join. It is rather hard to find out their position of field sports such as shooting and fishing.

[@RichardEnglander]

@@daveedwards7366 oh, I'm definitely no LEFTIST, not at all. Leftists are the loonies

[@kipsome45]

I’d like to see Matt Goodwin enter the political arena. He speaks my language, and I suspect others will concur.

[@MrRaugerbrown]

I concur, bro

[@libertasdemocratiam887]

As great as that would be we need people like him doing exactly what he's doing. Politicians need to start listening to people like him.

[@mesolithicman164]

If Farage used Matt's analysis as the basis for his comeback he could do very well in the Election next year. I'm absolutely certain he could get financial backing from a multitude of businesses that have been hit by the Conservatives cowardly adoption of Global Corporatism. And the public are ready for his medicine. If he doesn't take up the challenge, I suspect Lord Frost's plans to drop his knighthood and stand for parliament is a signal of his intentions.

[@chriscaedmon1525]

100% agree with you....

[@coraynbell8991]

@@libertasdemocratiam887 Dream on. Politicians listen to nobody except big business, the WEF and the WHO

[@johnbull4138]

I couldn’t agree more with Mr Goodwin. My country (England) is in a perilous position. Our political class especially the Tory’s have really let the people down and I have voted for them most of my life. However their veil has slipped, I know who they are now and I doubt I will ever vote for them again. Im 56 years old, originally from a poor working class background. I was brought up in a council house. I’m NOT anti immigrant my wife is an immigrant but I am passionately anti open door mass immigration. I’m afraid I’m not optimistic due to my age; my race is run and it needs a serious radical change of direction. Our so called ‘democratic’ system is hardwired not to allow change. You either get Tory or Labour governments and they are two cheeks of the same arse. I just hope and pray that change will come for the sake of my children and my country but I don’t see it happening. Democracy is an illusion. The left wing blob run this country. I hope the games isn’t up but I suspect it is.

[@godfriedmontana2705]

No. We have been let down by the whole political establishment. Labour (Tony Blair) started mass immigration and lied about its benefits. The Tories stayed silent (immigrants = cheap labour). Labour's lies were exposed by the House of Lords select committee for economic affairs in 2008 and by the 2010 election they were saying they would reduce immigration, not because they believed that was in the public interest but because they knew that's what the majority wanted. Labour and the Tories are equally vile and we must get rid of them both. Unfortunately, thanks to the BBC, many left-wing voters still believe Blair's lie that we NEED immigrants because we have lots of vacancies. At the same time they are not smart enough to explain why millions of immigrants have had no impact on the number of vacancies. We need to find a way of making them see how they've been conned so that we van get rid of Labour and the Tories at the same time.

[@Martin-88]

​@@whatsMyNameAgainAgainAs bad as it is, it's still a country.

[@destinationhighways]

“ We are not a serious country…” This statement, like many of the rest of Matt‘s arguments, applies equally to the rest of the decaying angloshere, as well as much of western Europistan.

[@destinationhighways]

@@d38yv4 I’ll see your UK, and raise you Canada. Sunak is a genius, compared to Trudeau, but then nearly everyone is. Definitely #NotASeriousCountry🇨🇦

[@destinationhighways]

@@d38yv4 Most of it still “looks” beautiful, outside of the larger towns/cities. Which are rapidly equalling the dystopia of many major US urban centres. Our idiot non-savant PM just let British Columbia legalise ALL street drugs. A lab has just been authorised to produce cocaine for poverty-industry grifter NGOs to distribute. “Canada Is Dying”: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYPEiK2AisqHZtE

[@paulinemoorhouse3856]

Isn’t it refreshing to listen to someone with common sense.

[@rjw4762]

It is virtually impossible to BE a 'serious country;' when that country is (forced) multi-cultural ! Our Governments cannot govern for fear of upsetting one community or another, decisions take so long....nothing is ever achieved. I'm honestly worried what this country will look, sound and feel like in 50 years.....

[@fairislecat6413]

Excellent conversation, it's a pity we're not having these deep discussions in the wider media. Winston hosts such a great podcast, I really look forward each episode.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

The UK is way behind continental Europe, America and particularly the East, on these civilisational issues.

[@RichardEnglander]

Yes. BBC should be doing this... And as for Winston, at first he seemed lost and I had him down as nepo (check his dad) and thought they messed up. However, he has grown on me and he getting rather good at this interviewing malarkey, and he does seem to read and prepare quite well for the guests. Good stuff

[@fairislecat6413]

@@RichardEnglander That's what I thought too, he's really gone from strength to strength honing his interviewing skills and I like the fact he lets the guests talk without interruption. That seems to be a rare thing in the mainstream media these days.

[@fairislecat6413]

@@evolassunglasses4673 And to our detriment.

[@Madoldcatlady]

@@evolassunglasses4673 well I live in France and although the conversations on MSN are much more frank, they are generally behind English speaking countries in the ultra progressive sense. I’m English, but my husband and kids are French and I always keep an eye on what’s going on in the UK and US. I remember just a couple of years ago speaking about the Trans issue. It was nowhere near as bad here, as in the UK, but, it’s definitely getting there and the trans activists have taken a leaf out of the English speaking worlds activists, by reporting anyone who dares call them out for what they are, with much the same consequences on free speech. When people see journalists being taken to court for simply saying, "a female identifying male", even in France, that makes even the boldest think twice about speaking out, which is precisely the point about "hate speech" laws.

[@fraserbailey6347]

Mr Goodwin excellent as always. He is one of the few commentators to understand the true horror of everything that has been done to the British people over the last 30 years. But why isn't there a political party who will meet the needs of the British people, why?

[@CCDR07]

Yeah, but this is a load of bollocks! The vast majority of Conservative MPs who have been in charge for the last 13 years are also all Oxford graduates, including the main Brexiteers who all parade themselves as anti-"woke" and pander to right-wing culture war rhetoric. British people depend on access to healthcare for their families. They depend on access to justice and the courts, they depend on equitable access to good education, healthy food, affordable energy, and a healthy environment. These things we depend on have all suffered under our "democratic" governance and have nothing to do with the culture war and hate mongering bullocks that Matt Goodwin is trading in. Wealth has equalled power in these parts for that last 5000+ years or so! This is not new. Wealth/power works to subvert our governance institutions, and is wielded to support the self-interests of the wealthy/powerful at the expense of the majority. What does change is how well our governance systems perform at constraining the self interest of power and instead promote our collectivized well-being/interests as a society. Media control, corporate lobbying, thinktank "consultants", and the revolving door between corporate and government institutions and committees are the levers that wealth/power now use to promote their interests at society's expense. These guys are just fauning acolytes of entrenched power, begging crumbs from the elite's tables. Apparently given the mission of fanning the flames of political division across BS identity politics issues, which obscure class/economic divides. This is the real rot and damage to British culture and politics, and the reason that the working class continues to lose ground in the very real class war struggles that must be fought for a fairer, healthier society. Our potential to wield political power to improve the many class issues that unite us is undermined by increasing division upon illusionary culture war issues that have no effect on our material well-being. It is no accident that as inequities in society increase, more and more focus is directed towards creating and amplifying divisive issues that fracture and obscure class issues.

[@mogznwaz]

They’ve all come from the Uniparty universities

[@daveedwards7366]

In the 80's us unemployed were offered places working for the local authority doing painting and decorating and landscaping for single parents and the elderly, we were put on short courses to learn all the basics, this training in the basics enabled thousands to put food on the table, giving the unskilled pride with a means to earn when times were hard. We have to teach our youth trades and quickly.

[@CollinKillian]

Trades to do what? When the over abundance of labor continues to drive the market down? Having mass migration keeps wages low, if you don't stop the immigration, you can't raise the need for labor skilled or unskilled..

[@daveedwards7366]

@@CollinKillian anybody can survive with a trade and a willingness to work, the UK has plenty of jobs but an 80hr week is the minimum required

[@coraynbell8991]

All very depressing! We have a government and an opposition with absolutely no interest in the British people, their culture or our moral compass! We are leaving a dreadful legacy for future generations!

[@trevorfry712]

A very enlightening conversation, also an alarming situation looming. I would love to sack the Conservative government, and I VOTED for them. I'm ashamed of them.

[@MikeNewland]

The policy of the big parties is now open to the view - replace the British population with immigrants.The BNP was pointing this out in the 1990s but few wanted to listen and most swallowed the ludicrous propaganda put out against it.

[@raevj]

The Replacement Theory is true in ALL historically White countries….it is a slow White genocide, but propaganda says the opposite. It is being intentionally done & organized by a certain group of people.

[@stephenclarke2206]

The BNP were / are fascists

[@stephenclarke2060]

@@BonusHole What did they do?

[@evolassunglasses4673]

@@stephenclarke2060 had local councillors across the county, 1 million votes at EU elections. They had momentum and were putting real pressure on the post 1945 Liberal paradigm. Ukip came along and destroyed them. Look where that got us, 600,000 migrants a year.

[@MikeNewland]

@@stephenclarke2060 Got around a million votes around 2010 despite relentless propaganda against it Nazis skinheads murderers. Two MEPs and scores of councillors. Farage who now rails about mass immigration was happy to join in saying he was proud of destroying the BNP. Partially true but the main culprit was the usual problems with small parties money grubbing and excluding talent as a threat to the leaders and a small fringe of freaks who tend to join these things not to speak of infiltrators. Farage for years put immigration rather on the back burner as too controversial. What got the BNP to be quite effective is simple. A lot of activists. Noticably lacking among the present contenders. No activists no hope.

[@kym1160]

I find Professor Goodwin very compelling, he definitely has his finger on the pulse concerning the UK and its huge problems now and in the future, if things don't start to change it paints a bleak picture, i have to say i find it worrying. We have to take notice of people like him, before we lose our identity for ever.

[@CCDR07]

Yeah, but this is a load of bollocks! The vast majority of Conservative MPs who have been in charge for the last 13 years are also all Oxford graduates, including the main Brexiteers who all parade themselves as anti-"woke" and pander to right-wing culture war rhetoric. British people depend on access to healthcare for their families. They depend on access to justice and the courts, they depend on equitable access to good education, healthy food, affordable energy, and a healthy environment. These things we depend on have all suffered under our "democratic" governance and have nothing to do with the culture war and hate mongering bullocks that Matt Goodwin is trading in. Wealth has equalled power in these parts for that last 5000+ years or so! This is not new. Wealth/power works to subvert our governance institutions, and is wielded to support the self-interests of the wealthy/powerful at the expense of the majority. What does change is how well our governance systems perform at constraining the self interest of power and instead promote our collectivized well-being/interests as a society. Media control, corporate lobbying, thinktank "consultants", and the revolving door between corporate and government institutions and committees are the levers that wealth/power now use to promote their interests at society's expense. These guys are just fauning acolytes of entrenched power, begging crumbs from the elite's tables. Apparently given the mission of fanning the flames of political division across BS identity politics issues, which obscure class/economic divides. This is the real rot and damage to British culture and politics, and the reason that the working class continues to lose ground in the very real class war struggles that must be fought for a fairer, healthier society. Our potential to wield political power to improve the many class issues that unite us is undermined by increasing division upon illusionary culture war issues that have no effect on our material well-being. It is no accident that as inequities in society increase, more and more focus is directed towards creating and amplifying divisive issues that fracture and obscure class issues.

[@leonmartin5933]

Matthew Goodwin is a breath of fresh air. Keep it up buddy.

[@jalijali8448]

I'd vote for this guy. Why are our politicians so useless?!

[@MikeNewland]

Money

[@PGHEngineer]

Because nobody wants to be the one that goes down in history as the man that deported all the immigrants. Talk is cheap. Action costs.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

Captured by international finance.

[@ripley7222]

There are other options such as patriotic altenative or the heritage party.

[@MikeNewland]

@@ripley7222 Minute what use is that.

[@CraigBolt]

Matt Goodwin is absolutely spot on on this.

[@mrror8933]

Good analysis which also reveals certain other things about the UK: 1. The lack of factual and informative news reporting, from the tabloid press to the mainstream. 2. The lack of political debates on important issues where all viewpoints / angles are given air time. 1. and 2. are interconnected. What this leads to is an ill-informed, apathetic and naive populace, easily gaslit or hoodwinked into believing unhinged conspiracies. Similar situation in the US.

[@offshoretomorrow3346]

Worse - the mass media is captured by Woke Marxism - and is a sealed system where 'progressives' are never confronted with rational debate: just the amplification of extremist dogma.

[@offshoretomorrow3346]

(Conservative/ liberal press still exists - but TV is lost. GB News is being relentlessly defunded.)

[@mrror8933]

@@offshoretomorrow3346 there's not much quality on GB news, let's face it. GB news mostly fails on the abovementioned points 1. & 2.

[@raevj]

But the lies are on the news & the “conspiracy theories” are turning out to be the truth…

[@CollinKillian]

There is hope yet, people where apathetic because life was largely comfortable for over a generation. Now that's rapidly changing, the forced cultural changes due to immigration, and more importantly they went after people's children. The push for gender and race based ideology in schools has broken the back of parents. You're beginning to see that people are done with it, look at the recent boycotts of Bud Light, that's not happening because a few online influencers got upset. That's the issue breaching the mainstream, same is happening with immigration...

[@doctorbritain9632]

This is just thoroughly depressing. I predict civil unrest and violence. I see not other outcome.

[@cecilefox9136]

Matthew Gooodwin ,what a brilliant analyst!👍

[@mesolithicman164]

Matt is becoming a _very_ important commentator these days. His analysis is spot on. As the birthplace of Liberalism, we seem to have a dug in class of hyper Liberals that would rather let the country sink beneath the sea than accept that it's all gone too far.

[@CCDR07]

Yeah, but this is a load of bollocks! The vast majority of Conservative MPs who have been in charge for the last 13 years are also all Oxford graduates, including the main Brexiteers who all parade themselves as anti-"woke" and pander to right-wing culture war rhetoric. British people depend on access to healthcare for their families. They depend on access to justice and the courts, they depend on equitable access to good education, healthy food, affordable energy, and a healthy environment. These things we depend on have all suffered under our "democratic" governance and have nothing to do with the culture war and hate mongering bullocks that Matt Goodwin is trading in. Wealth has equalled power in these parts for the last 5000+ years or so! This is not new. The idea that there is some kind of "new", "leftist" elite is comple bullocks designed to strengthen the contrived divisions between left vs right. Wealth/power works to subvert our governance institutions, and is wielded to support the self-interests of the wealthy/powerful at the expense of the majority. What does change is how well our governance systems perform at constraining the self interest of power and instead promote our collectivized well-being/interests as a society. Media control, corporate lobbying, thinktank "consultants", and the revolving door between corporate and government institutions and committees are the levers that wealth/power now use to promote their interests at society's expense. These guys are just fauning acolytes of entrenched power, begging crumbs from the elite's tables. Apparently given the mission of fanning the flames of political division across BS identity politics issues, which obscure class/economic divides. This is the real rot and damage to British culture and politics, and the reason that the working class continues to lose ground in the very real class war struggles that must be fought for a fairer, healthier society. Our potential to wield political power to improve the many class issues that unite us is undermined by increasing division upon illusionary culture war issues that have no effect on our material well-being. It is no accident that as inequities in society increase, more and more focus is directed towards creating and amplifying divisive issues that fracture and obscure class issues.

[@mesolithicman164]

@@CCDR07 Hierarchies exist in all societies it is the natural order of things. Che Guevara lived in the lap of luxury while the 'liberated' people struggled to eke out an existence. That's why Cuban ex-pats living in America are out and out capitalists. They've lived the reality that people like you hypothesise about and they hate it. Socialism is built upon the principle of envy. Socialist George Orwell saw that middle class Socialists disliked the poor and uneducated but they really hated the people that had more than them, that was why they were Socialists. Not to raise up the poor but to bring down the rich and replace them with themselves.

[@CCDR07]

​@@mesolithicman164 Wow, I bet you are a very polished and bright individual, and you really open doors for people! Did I argue that hierarchies don't occur naturally? No! Though I'd argue that strong tensions arise between the degree of hierarchical organization in a system vs. the degree that the autonomy of individual components (e.g., people in a socio-economic systme) are constrained. (Explicilty related to why Imperial societies inevitably collapse all the time). Did, I mention socialism? No! But since you seem so knowledgeable, why don't you outline what the heck you're talking about and describe what you think 'capitalism' is, and what you think 'socialism' is so that we can actually see what we're disagreeing about. "People like me hypothesize"? As above, what are you talking about? I am suggesting that democratic governance systems around the world vary in the degree that they are able to constrain the malign influence of wealth/power. This varies by state/locality, and varies with time as democratic institutions are either corroded or further bulwarked against outright self-serving wealth/power or its counterpart, ignorance. (e.g., a lot of improvements to western democracy/societies occurred after WW II). How can you possibly disagree with that? So, do you want to live in a state where citizens are totally left at the mercy of those with wealth/power/influence? Or do you want to live in a state where effort is put in to developing and maintaining collectively/democratically agreed upon social institutions capable of efficiently protecting the interests and autonomy of citizens of society at large. For example, I read today that 1/3 of government spending on so called "public services" goes to private firms, and of the 40 companies in the conservative's "strategic providers list", 34 of them have been fined over 500 million in total for non-compliance, fraud, or failing to fulfill contractual agreements". Despite this, the amount of money that goes to these 40 companies has increased 24% from 2021 to 2022. Surely our democratic institutions can do better than that at fighting corruption! Lastly, how can you argue "socialism" (whatever you think that is) is based on the principal of envy, when the primary story you continually hear from people like Farage and Trump is a narrative of grievance? "Britain has been stolen from us by European Bureaucrats, let's take back control", "Let's make America great again", etc.. etc. If that's not envy what is? I think you could better argue that ideologues of any persuasion rely on envy/grievance to garner support for whatever group of chums they fraternize with. Back to tensions between hierarchical organizstion and autonomy of individuals again. It might surprise you to learn that the hyper cooperative behaviour that humans have developed and depended upon for hundreds of millions of years for suvival (and the big brains that enables it) resulted precisely from the ability of individuals to collectively subvert the traditional dominance hierarchies present in many other primates (not all primates). You might find it even more surprising that this was largely driven by the survival advantages afforded to collective child rearing facilitated by female social networks and their ability to negotiate them... 'Mothers and Others' by Sarah Blaffer Hrdy is a great book on the subject.

[@mesolithicman164]

@@CCDR07 Quoting your words: "Our potential to wield political power to improve the many class issues that unite us is undermined by increasing division...and amplifying divisive issues that fracture and obscure class issues." The analysis of society based on class and power dynamics is Socialism, pure and simple. How you might think anyone could read your text and not see that it is deeply rooted in the philosophy of Socialism defeats me. You again: "So do you want to live in a state where citizens are totally left at the mercy of those with wealth/power/influence." That is what happens in every alternative to Capitalist society. But in those systems it is never based on merit. An Elon Musk, for example, could never exist in those alternative systems because it is the servants of the state, the most fanatical, who do best and become the wealthy and powerful. As I said Cuban refugees are the most committed to capitalism because they realise that of all the systems, Capitalism is the least worst. An individual has the potential to do well through hard work and/or brain power. One more quote: "Resulted precisely from the ability of individuals to collectively subvert traditional dominance hierarchies present in many other primates" Apart from the fact that this kind of opaque jargony language does more to obscure meaning than reveal it, I think you're saying that a woman's traditional role was always to be at home looking after the children. And on that point, at least, we finish on a note of agreement.

[@CCDR07]

@@mesolithicman164 You my polished, shiny, door-opening friend, are not arguing/debating anything of substance that I’ve put forward. You are simply being a dogmatic ideologue, without defining or describing any of the terms or labels that you use. For example, why would one choose to ignore examining how power functions, becomes concentrated, and is wielded? Where is the advantage in that, or are you happy to drink whatever kool-aid someone in authority hands you to drink? Anyone can look at society (or any system) through a lens of class and power dynamics, (or strength/influence, connectivity, feedback loops, etc.)! It’s very instructive and is useful for accurately describing and predicting the dynamics of systems. It doesn't make you a Marxist to do this! Similarly, political power takes many forms, and one vital and effective method for those lacking individual political power/wealth is to unite into groups/institutions to achieve mutual interests!!! What is explicitly socialist about that? Or do you think any group of people acting together for common aims is socialist (what do you call a multinational then?, or a church?) Now, I again ask you to describe/outline what you think the main features of capitalism and socialism are (or describe their key differences) so that we can actually argue about something of substance. For example, I’d argue that in both capitalist and socialist societies, you can end up with citizens being totally left at the mercy of those with wealth/power/influence. It’s entirely dependent on how individuals, groups, and social and governance institutions are organized and the strength of their relationships with each other that determine the degree to which the factors shaping our lives are dictated top-down, or power is more functionally distributed throughout society so smaller groups and individuals have more autonomy relative to their hierarchical relationships. For example, say that Elon Musk (or Donald Trump) wanted to buy up a bunch of farmland or parkland next to your house and turn it into a golf course or rocket base. There are likely to be a lot of people dependent (economically or quality of life-wise) on that land who would object to it. In one country, there may be local planning laws, environmental protections, or other features (e.g., organized mass protests and civil disobedience to enact legislation, or income tax and corporate tax laws that reduce the degree that wealth is concentrated in single individuals or institutions relative to wider society, etc. ) that prevent Elon Musk or Donald Trump from doing that. While in another country, Elon Musk or Donald Trump might be able to do whatever they please, be as hedonistic as they like, and leave a trail of social-environmental wreckage in their wake to the detriment of those without equivalent wealth/power to stop them. It doesn’t matter if power is concentrated via wealth accumulation, or accumulation of political favours/loyalty (or usually both), what does matter is the degree to which power is concentrated. You are naïve to the extreme if you think the degree to which wealth/power is concentrated in individuals in mainstream society is related to their degree of merit! Merit at what? is my first question. Merit as a good human being? Merit at contributing positively to the well-being of others and society? We all have different aptitudes and weaknesses, who defines what skills and aptitudes are meritorious? On the other hand financial earnings/value are a poor judge of people that are socially meritorious (see drug lords, oil barons, mafia heads, corrupt politicians, etc.). Lastly, what word here "Resulted precisely from the ability of individuals to collectively subvert traditional dominance hierarchies present in many other primates" don’t you understand and I’ll clarify?. It’d stand you in good stead to read ‘mothers and others’, you might find yourself becoming less frustrated, close-minded and gaining a better understanding of reality and the fundamental ecological relationships that hold this whole world together in interdependent and continually evolving, thriving, life

[@PK-yf3hd]

The best expose and oversight of modern Britain I have heard

[@Gozzillacia]

With the two party system - where both parties and the media agree - we have as much genuine democracy as Iran or Russia. Unless some prominent people start saying - "If you want your vote to count - stop voting Labour /Tory," Britain is over. I wish there was a public figure big enough to head up a campaign to promote this tactic. A Campaign to stress that - if you want change, you have to change the voting seesaw of Labour then Tory then Labour then Tory - until we are no more.

[@fairislecat6413]

Exactly this is how I view things, in my opinion the whole entire political system is broken and hampered by bad ideas and corruption. I think all the major political parties are unfit for purpose. All of them including the Tories have been captured by Gender Ideology and it's embarrassing to watch politicians beclown themselves by denying biological reality and stating absurdities such as some women have a penis. All the while the UK is falling apart and decaying.

[@Gozzillacia]

@@d38yv4 Yes and no. In actuality every ballot paper has half a dozen parties - in reality, we know a vote for anyone but the two main parties is at best a protest vote. Our political system works like the market place - the best selling (bought), product is not the best but the most promoted. And while the media and the two main parties are in agreement on so much - the promotion has been on behalf of the two main parties. But as my post implies - we can break out of this trap - get off the seesaw. We did with Brexit - and we can again. But -- we need a King Arthur -- someone who has a big enough personality (they do exist in nature - think Churchill), to come along and save Britain from the globalists (both Tory and Labour), who would give her to the barbarians of third world to f***. This is the hour - like 1939 was the hour -- but where is our King Arthur?

[@Druids234]

Very refreshing to hear an honest conversation with real insights.

[@CCDR07]

Yeah, but this is a load of bollocks! The vast majority of Conservative MPs who have been in charge for the last 13 years are also all Oxford graduates, including the main Brexiteers who all parade themselves as anti-"woke" and pander to right-wing culture war rhetoric. British people depend on access to healthcare for their families. They depend on access to justice and the courts, they depend on equitable access to good education, healthy food, affordable energy, and a healthy environment. These things we depend on have all suffered under our "democratic" governance and have nothing to do with the culture war and hate mongering bullocks that Matt Goodwin is trading in. Wealth has equalled power in these parts for that last 5000+ years or so! This is not new. Wealth/power works to subvert our governance institutions, and is wielded to support the self-interests of the wealthy/powerful at the expense of the majority. What does change is how well our governance systems perform at constraining the self interest of power and instead promote our collectivized well-being/interests as a society. Media control, corporate lobbying, thinktank "consultants", and the revolving door between corporate and government institutions and committees are the levers that wealth/power now use to promote their interests at society's expense. These guys are just fauning acolytes of entrenched power, begging crumbs from the elite's tables. Apparently given the mission of fanning the flames of political division across BS identity politics issues, which obscure class/economic divides. This is the real rot and damage to British culture and politics, and the reason that the working class continues to lose ground in the very real class war struggles that must be fought for a fairer, healthier society. Our potential to wield political power to improve the many class issues that unite us is undermined by increasing division upon illusionary culture war issues that have no effect on our material well-being. It is no accident that as inequities in society increase, more and more focus is directed towards creating and amplifying divisive issues that fracture and obscure class issues.

[@claudiavivarelli7571]

Great take on the U.K. situation right now. Thank you both

[@Jack-bs6zb]

Yes it’s saddening that public reaction to the absence of Tory conservatism is to vote for Labour socialism.

[@magicbuns4868]

Labour, and Tories aren't socialist, they're the same thing, a bunch of Fascists hiding out as 'Liberals'

[@jimdavis8391]

Labour are not a socialist party, they are yet another Neo Liberal globalist tentacle.

[@tomyg2766]

Matt's analysis is spot on

[@jeanwallace9791]

As a new first time grandmother now in my 60s having let my children live at home with their partners for years until they could afford mortgage /home,my children are now having their children in their 30s they will all have to go back to work ASAP which will turn me into an unpaid child minder for the rest of my life. I retired last year,my government pension hardly covers my housing costs,which means I’m still working 24/7 feeling very much left behind,without a voice in a unrecognisable global/Britain.

[@austinbourke9292]

Matt Goodwin is the voice of reason and quiet brilliant in his explanation of why we are where we are

[@andys1333]

Fantastic conversation, really captures the issues Britain currently faces and the root causes as well as solutions. I would instantly vote for a party championing this mindset and philosophy. Really fascinating discussion.

[@CCDR07]

Yeah, but this is a load of bollocks! The vast majority of Conservative MPs who have been in charge for the last 13 years are also all Oxford graduates, including the main Brexiteers who all parade themselves as anti-"woke" and pander to right-wing culture war rhetoric. British people depend on access to healthcare for their families. They depend on access to justice and the courts, they depend on equitable access to good education, healthy food, affordable energy, and a healthy environment. These things we depend on have all suffered under our "democratic" governance and have nothing to do with the culture war and hate mongering bullocks that Matt Goodwin is trading in. Wealth has equalled power in these parts for that last 5000+ years or so! This is not new. Wealth/power works to subvert our governance institutions, and is wielded to support the self-interests of the wealthy/powerful at the expense of the majority. What does change is how well our governance systems perform at constraining the self interest of power and instead promote our collectivized well-being/interests as a society. Media control, corporate lobbying, thinktank "consultants", and the revolving door between corporate and government institutions and committees are the levers that wealth/power now use to promote their interests at society's expense. These guys are just fauning acolytes of entrenched power, begging crumbs from the elite's tables. Apparently given the mission of fanning the flames of political division across BS identity politics issues, which obscure class/economic divides. This is the real rot and damage to British culture and politics, and the reason that the working class continues to lose ground in the very real class war struggles that must be fought for a fairer, healthier society. Our potential to wield political power to improve the many class issues that unite us is undermined by increasing division upon illusionary culture war issues that have no effect on our material well-being. It is no accident that as inequities in society increase, more and more focus is directed towards creating and amplifying divisive issues that fracture and obscure class issues.

[@bendarling5573]

Judging by the cesspool of mental illness and childish hatred appearing under each of his tweets, MG is doing something right.

[@elizabethanthony3916]

👍👏👏👏👏

[@LuisCarruthers]

When I hear what Matt says about importing "five Birminghams" in the next twenty years and white British children being a minority in primary schools, it's utterly terrifying. We should be so angry and successive Labour and Conservative governments. I'm afraid it's going to get really ugly and really nasty in the future.

[@thefigmaster3519]

Glad to see some people can see through the bullshit

[@marywoolley-nb7ct]

Thank you so much for highlighting and discussing so many of the issues about which I have concerns. As a retired primary teacher I believe discussion about children and the family are sadly missing in today’s political landscape.

[@rosemaryalles6043]

I am American, I am invariably impressed at the degree of sophistication of the conversations ( and responses ) happening in the UK. Save your culture and your nation. It's worth it. ❤

[@goodlookinouthomie1757]

Matt's description of the average conservative (small c) voter is absolutely spot on for where I am now. I intend to vote for _anyone_ that is not a mainstream dinosaur party.

[@ThriftingSquirrel]

I mostly agree, but don’t think Biden’s a good example of any kind of competence or policies we should be following, assuming he’s even aware of what he’s doing…

[@evolassunglasses4673]

Open borders and more wars isn't the road to save the West

[@jae2686]

Brilliant! More people need to listen and take heed.

[@sqwalnoc]

excellent discussion, I've been aware of Matt Goodwin for a few years now, I don't agree with everything he has said in other arenas, but this interview was spot on, didn't disagree with a word.

[@mikefletcher6595]

This demonstrates yet again to me that people like Winston think they have their finger on the pulse but it clearly shows the middle classes have a serious disconnect between their politics and how they assess the mood of the country politically. Been listening a lot to Times Radio lately and it's the same with that, they are continually talking about the working classes and how they might vote and what exercises them, but they continually underestimate and misunderstand them . Matt is 100% correct, Transgender Ideology, British History/Culture and Immigration will be the big topics of the next election and potentially the undoing of Labour. Such a great conversation tho, we need more of this, conversations based on data not gut feelings or pandering to the woke left.

[@youtubeyoutube936]

I feel the same as you and I’m a long time immigrant pre eec

[@offshoretomorrow3346]

How does a based, rational thinker like him survive in modern academia?

[@anneoconnor5907]

I ask myself the same question. Kent must not be as insane as Sussex Uni.

[@daveedwards7366]

By not working for a political party.

[@annemarieforprimeminister8020]

He doesn't tell the truth and call it evil and corrupt.

[@EE12CSVT]

With great difficulty, apparently

[@ajs41]

The problem with young people is that most of them support high levels of immigration while also complaining about house prices.

[@youtubeyoutube936]

Yep. Said the same thing. All very superficial.

[@robcaiger1781]

Excellent conversation. This channel is doing what the BBC should be covering. Looking forward to the book, just ordered.

[@stevesmith3990]

What the politicians have done and are doing to us is beyond belief. Matt hits the nail on the head as usual.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

The Anglo-sphere Right is completely captured by international finance capitalism and the forces of open borders Globalisation.

[@scillyautomatic]

Winston would know a thing or two about being "unfriended" and cancelled. Right, Winston? It's all good. We support you 100% even if you do have some nutty liberal ideas still.🤔😂

[@calebmiles]

Excellent interview and content. I agree with many of the points Matthew has raised and i'm glad someone with his profile is still able to engage in these subjects without being cancelled. Winston has a fantastic interview technique who lets guests talk through their point without unnecessary interruption. I would defiantly have both of them at my dinner party

[@bt82]

He’s not far off being cancelled. Many of his academic colleagues have shunned him, nobody wants to debate with him and he gets a lot of hate comments online. He’s staked a lot on speaking for what he believes.

[@gamble9437]

In simple terms we have politicians and businessmen that have decided they would rather be kings than public representatives. They tell us what to do instead of listening and acting on our wishes.

[@europeisrising]

As much as I welcome this conversation, where were you 10 YEARS AGO when Woes, Collett and company were discussing these very issues and being censored and silenced for doing so, the serious thinkers of our time aren't being televised..

[@youtubeyoutube936]

I expect he was saying the same things

[@angusmacdonald3220]

Matt for Prime Minister.

[@johndale1300]

Are you sure about that comment

[@angusmacdonald3220]

@@johndale1300 Very sure!

[@jebjeb1498]

Well said,Prof Goodwin.Everything you've said I agree with.Im glad you've mentioned explicitly the Sports Direct example.I also would like to mention the nearby recent murder of an oap in her own home and the savage attack on her husband by a foreign East European immigrant.I assume you are talking about Bolsover/Shirebrook areabecause it fits the description.You have no idea of the righteous anger simmering amongst us ordinary,law abiding folk.Conservatism seems to have collapsed all over Europe but there are signs on the peripheries of a renaissance.Shatter the Left's Overton Window once and for all.

[@CCDR07]

Yeah, but this is a load of bollocks! The vast majority of Conservative MPs who have been in charge for the last 13 years are also all Oxford graduates, including the main Brexiteers who all parade themselves as anti-"woke" and pander to right-wing culture war rhetoric. British people depend on access to healthcare for their families. They depend on access to justice and the courts, they depend on equitable access to good education, healthy food, affordable energy, and a healthy environment. These things we depend on have all suffered under our "democratic" governance and have nothing to do with the culture war and hate mongering bullocks that Matt Goodwin is trading in. Wealth has equalled power in these parts for that last 5000+ years or so! This is not new. Wealth/power works to subvert our governance institutions, and is wielded to support the self-interests of the wealthy/powerful at the expense of the majority. What does change is how well our governance systems perform at constraining the self interest of power and instead promote our collectivized well-being/interests as a society. Media control, corporate lobbying, thinktank "consultants", and the revolving door between corporate and government institutions and committees are the levers that wealth/power now use to promote their interests at society's expense. These guys are just fauning acolytes of entrenched power, begging crumbs from the elite's tables. Apparently given the mission of fanning the flames of political division across BS identity politics issues, which obscure class/economic divides. This is the real rot and damage to British culture and politics, and the reason that the working class continues to lose ground in the very real class war struggles that must be fought for a fairer, healthier society. Our potential to wield political power to improve the many class issues that unite us is undermined by increasing division upon illusionary culture war issues that have no effect on our material well-being. It is no accident that as inequities in society increase, more and more focus is directed towards creating and amplifying divisive issues that fracture and obscure class issues.

[@starrynight1329]

I have a huge problem with the fact that the immigrants and migrants aren't being taught how to behave in this country. There should be an induction process. They need to know that it is a criminal offence to s e x u a l l y harrass women and children. That way courts can deal properly with the men who are committing these crimes.

[@evolassunglasses4673]

Culture is downstream from ethnicity.

[@alaia-awakened]

I’m not sure you can teach people something when there’s not incentive for them. If it works for them amd there’s no penalty… why change? We should not be naive about this.

[@starrynight1329]

@@alaia-awakened the reason we should change is because of the law not treating their crimes as serious due to the fact they have a "different culture".

[@noavocadoanymore]

They tried in Sweden, Finland and Norway and it didn't work. It is less of an issue in Norway because they controlled their immigration a lot more, but just look at Sweden.

[@Medevil-hy5vk]

Matt G. Is absolutely right 👏👏👏👏

[@aerogray2500]

A very informative discussion and one that I will share. People need to see this and educate themselves.

[@terenceclark6858]

I wish more main party politicians were as in touch with the voters as matt Goodwin is.

[@carbonbasedunit3422]

Winston is refreshingly open minded and therefore well placed to have in depth, thorough and thoughtful discussions. More please!

[@borderlands6606]

As soon as a government is elected they renege on their manifesto, and it only becomes a live issue 5 years later in the run up to the next election. One year of listening to the voters and 4 years of ignoring them is not a good deal for the electorate.

[@merefield2585]

Winston summarised the crisis of the conservative movement and the present state of the country so well. Thank you!

[@Karen-us3ls]

Great interview. Fascinating and he articulated his perspective very convincingly. Hard financial times come and go. But to throw away our values of truthfulness, fairness, family values and the protection of the weakest is something that once done, will be almost impossible to reverse. And I fear for the generation trying to reverse it. I cannot see any of the major parties turning this politically correct nonsense and abuse of children around. I will be voting for the new conservative parties. I’m afraid I too feel very pessimistic. My daughter is inclined toward having only one child because of NHS and financial pressures. And both she and her husband are professionals. And I have always seen the forcing women back to work asap as exactly what it is. Dehumanising and viewing mothers as economic units of output. And that is frightening. Only the very wealthy (the parasites and financial predators), and early retirees like myself who benefitted from a free tertiary education have a tolerably good standard of living now. The rest of the people around me are grinding themselves down working for money to survive, to try to help their children get on the housing ladder and worrying about healthcare costs. God help us.

[@CCDR07]

Thanks for your well though out and personal thoughts. The problem is though that there are large dollops of complete bullocks in what he says. The vast majority of Conservative MPs who have been in charge for the last 13 years are also all Oxford graduates, including the main Brexiteers who all parade themselves as anti-"woke" and pander to right-wing culture war rhetoric. AS you've outlined. British people depend on access to healthcare for their families. They depend on access to justice and the courts, they depend on equitable access to good education, healthy food, affordable energy, and a healthy environment. These things we depend on have all suffered under our "democratic" governance and have nothing to do with the culture war and hate mongering left vs right bullocks that Matt Goodwin is trading in. Wealth has equalled power in these parts for that last 5000+ years or so! This is not new. It is a complete fabrication to say that some kind of "new" "leftist" elite has taken control of our socio-economic system. Wealth/power inevitably works to subvert our governance institutions, and is wielded to support the self-interests of the wealthy/powerful at the expense of the majority. What does change is how well our governance systems perform at constraining the self interest of power and instead promote our collectivized well-being/interests as a society. Media control, corporate lobbying, thinktank "consultants", and the revolving door between corporate and government institutions and committees are the levers that wealth/power now use to promote their interests at society's expense. These guys are just fauning acolytes of entrenched power, begging crumbs from the elite's tables. Apparently given the mission of fanning the flames of political division across BS identity politics issues, which obscure class/economic divides. This is the real rot and damage to British culture and politics, and the reason that the working class continues to lose ground in the very real class war struggles that must be fought for a fairer, healthier society. Our potential to wield political power to improve the many class issues that unite us is undermined by increasing division upon illusionary culture war issues that have no effect on our material well-being. It is no accident that as inequities in society increase, more and more focus is directed towards creating and amplifying divisive issues that fracture and obscure class issues.

[@Karen-us3ls]

@@CCDR07 Thank you. I agree. There isn’t any real conversation on class issues and they are very much needed.

[@leanneclare3750]

Yup . That’s me. I ve listened to Radio 4 since I was in my mid 20’s. I ‘m an old graduate when I was expected as part of my education to debate or advocate on ideas I didn’t necessarily agree with. So, it was about understanding the issue from both sides. The BBC for me exist in a vacuum of intellectuals that I simply don’t relate to or understand because their views are imposed on me! And are frankly lacking in intellectual probity. So I turned it off in 2016 over Brexit due to the lack of credible debate.

[@kathrynbarbara967]

Matt is a very very clear communicator. Good discourse and Matt presents his arguments well. The next election is going to be interesting (bloodbath for tories).

[@VaucluseVanguard]

Sounds to me like there is a need for movement that is socially conservative, mildly nationalist/patriotic and economically protectionist, a sort of Blur Labour perhaps. Now there’s an idea.

[@saltburner2]

Thanks for a very interesting session - and for the time-stamps.

[@steveelliott8640]

The date of 2060 keeps being repeated, but it looks like 2040 will be more likely the breaking point for immigration.

[@LuisCarruthers]

It's quite terrifying what a different country this will feel like as time goes on, and how irreversible it is. Just think what an awful place this will be to live in too. Countryside will constantly be turned into housing estates, roads will be busier, trains more crowded, there will be no identity to towns and cities. Mosques and chicken shops will spring up in places where people thought they never would. Pubs will disappear.

[@jananderson1980]

I would like to see all parliamentary parties manifestos have a statement re their position with regard to the WEF WHO and even the UN, asking what’s your relationship with these global entities, what policies do you support? Will you bring all issues under democratic control???

[@junehope5152]

Why do you need to see it their saying it with the mouths Trans women are women,net zero ,feminism on and on

[@junehope5152]

Our best hope is Putin pushes the button quick and puts us out of our misery

[@sebastianbooth5659]

Peter Hitchens warned about the conservatives 20 years ago, did anyone listen? No and now we live the consequences.

[@Susan-kd3rv]

It’s not just Tory’s , Tony Blair started it off with open borders and Iraq war .

[@css7765]

It is not the graduates who have Infiltrated the political system with their ideology it is their university lecturers who indoctrinated these students with the university faculties throughout the country. I was sat in a seminar with Matthew Goodwins coauthor of the past.. Robert Ford - he instilled in the students that THEY were the elite.. and the voters of this country are cognitively delinquent. With great restraint I resisted throwing myself out of the window in the classroom- 5 floors up in a building on campus. He is the problem alongside some of the faculty and I am glad you have distanced yourself from his hate filled words which students were not allowed to disagree with. If they did, they were mocked and compared to Powell and Nigel.

[@phedders]

Matt please start a new political party. Hands down one of the the most coherent voices I've heard in a long time.

[@lesliecunliffe4450]

Matt Goodwin continues to point out the bloody obvious to Tory MPs and supporters,.How often does he have to repeat the message before the Tory establishment gets it?

[@perimele6]

Why do we frame it in terms of single mothers and not in terms of absent dads?

[@claireb9127]

Very interesting conversation. A new party could rise very quickly to push out the main two parties. The net zero group think in Westminster could be the catalyst as soon as people realise the cost, we need REAL alternatives to the two main parties.

[@christophersmith3248]

Sound man, Goodwin.

[@alastairhunter353]

Thanks again Mathew .

[@paolopagliaro980]

I agree on almost all that Goodwin says. A little correction at 54:50: it's not the left who radicalized after Trump, it's people who voted Trump long after the left had radicalized.

[@NicholaLinley-ei8zn]

Pity not more conversations like this great to listen to

[@matthewm5709]

Fantastic interview! Thanks gentlemen.

[@izzyplant8428]

Excellent exposure. Thank you.

[@lakedistrict9450]

Good to know intelligent well informed conversation still exists. I hope it’s not too late to return to intelligent politics. If the themes discussed here are not dealt with, the consequences may become unpleasant and ugly.

[@armandodesousa6375]

That person you seek for Britain already exists here in Portugal- alongside a fast growing political party- CHEGA - is the name of this conservative movement that represents the productive sector- the ciutizens of Portugal , not the moochers and looters of this country. André Ventura has been through a riggamarole of obstacles, but he will eventually run this once proud country. Good luck with your searrch in GB, but we need him and the other members of CHEGA here first.

[@Vintagevanessa99]

Brilliant conversation thankyou

[@leakybean501]

Brilliant conversation👏👏👏👏

[@Listenerandlearner870]

Spot on on everything. It has all been said for a very long time.

[@TheDailyGroov]

Great chat, great information provided by Matt, thank you both.

[@gerhard7323]

There are pros and cons to immigration and there should be a far more open, honest, factual debate about it. The problem is that this Tory government and doubtless any forthcoming Labour government is essentially permitting it to remain unchecked at levels which will profoundly affect certain communities far more than others. As soon as any in those communities see fit to point out these competing pressures they are immediately accused of being racist gammons by those in communities that will largely experience and choose to only see the net benefits.

[@2lynnw]

Thank you.

[@chrisreeves9764]

Matt Goodwin for PM. He gets it.

[@jamesw2414]

Wise words, as always, from Matt.

[@mikewilliams1629]

Spot on!

[@j2174]

British white kids in London and area are already a minority. They are mostly black and brown. Its been like that for years now. You can see it on the tubes every time there is a class trip or in school photos.

[@artn2950]

A valid opinion on elites, predatory capitalists and where they are trying to take us😢

[@pastyman001]

As someone with a liberal centre left view, I used to post in the Telegraph to argue with people. I took a lot of insults and was eventually blocked by a paywall. The Mail group blocked me individually permanently.

[@murphoithegameguy3924]

Nailed it

[@Keats-pk6nu]

Matt Goodwin should be chief advisor to the PM.

[@desydukuk291]

Brilliant!

[@DonPedroTheDude]

It is amazing the treatment of the word nationalism. There are many tones, but a core tenet for most is self-determination. Everyone is very willing to support this when it comes to Ukraine, but there is a cognitive disonance that when we do we are using a nationalist idea.

[@EE12CSVT]

Matt Goodwin is a man after my own heart. He articulates what I've been thinking for some time, especially on matters of globalisation, and which are addressed in a 2001 book about which I'm currently reading, "The Case against Globalisation". He also speaks about the lack of planning in all parties to deal with the changes which will be coming in the next few decades, mainly because they haven't the wit or foresight to recognise it. "We need to reform the institutions so that they get a wider pool of talent in them" - well, this is what I've been saying for quite a while.

[@richardyates7280]

Impressive conversation