Trump’s $355M Penalty: New York Lawyer Breaks Down the Impacts | WSJ

[@K00lt0n.worldpeace]

New York just dug their grave even deeper.

[@thorn-1]

Trump took office Jan 20, 2017. The lowest price of gasoline was caused by the COVID pandemic . 2015 and 2016 oil prices were lower than any year of Trumps reign of lying Trump takes credit for the oil price collapse but COVID caused it.

[@JeremyBrightenburg]

I went to a bar and got drunk and drove home didn't hurt anybody and paid my bar tab so the bar made money and no one was hurt why would I still be charged with drunk driving

[@K00lt0n.worldpeace]

@@JeremyBrightenburg yep. If your last name was Trump they would still find a way to charge you with drunk driving even though thousands of other people did the same thing and didn’t get charged. It’s a political prosecution.

[@johnd8596]

​@@JeremyBrightenburgtotally irrelevant comparison

[@rosszhu1660]

@@JeremyBrightenburgyou didn’t hurt anyone but your behaviour could hurt someone. In trump’s case who could be in danger?

[@JimKittell6486]

Why has this statute been enforced exactly once in the 70 years on the books?

[@Lolatyou332]

Cause it's unconstitutional and any lawyer would know it would fail to prosecute unless the entire system was politically motivated against them.

[@jamesclark6707]

Law enforcement uses this law every day in all states. It is called "disgorgement" -- the recovery of ill-gotten gains. They use it to seize cars, houses, jewelry, etc., from drug dealers, scammers and fraudsters because they obtained benefits through illegal means. Hope that answers your question, but probably impossible for you to understand if you asked the question.

[@JimKittell6486]

@@jamesclark6707 Keywords being "ill-gotten" and "illegal". Implied is that someone lost money. What's illegal about me saying my property is worth X and you say it's worth Y? The issue seems to be whether or not the bank made enough profit because Trump got lower interest rates. Trump made money, the bank made money, the state made money in taxes. Win-win-win. So why is the state charging Trump with fraud? IE: there must be a loser. I can't see one. Maybe we weren't paying attention, this statute has been used exactly once in the last 7o years. The Emperor, er govr, said Trump is the only one, so other businesses do not have to worry. That says it all.

[@JimKittell6486]

@@jamesclark6707 What's illegal/ill-gotten about me saying my property is worth X and you say it's worth Y, then making a deal? The bank made a profit, trump made a profit, New York state made a profit in taxes. Doesn't there have to be a loser for it to be fraud? Did we miss the news that this statute has only been used once in 70 years?

[@Richardroser123]

⁠@@JimKittell6486because its fraud? What do you not understand?

[@75Sadielady]

There will be even more real estate abandoned or for sale in NEW YORK

[@KingVikram]

Yeah, right. Seen any fire sales in NEW YORK?

[@kenturner3268]

@@KingVikram Sit back and watch

[@stefan6412]

@@KingVikram It´s not about sales it´s about future investments. Kevin O`Leary, Grant Cardone and other investors have clearly stated that with this precedent loaning money for an investment in New York is too risky. If an investor has a building he thinks is worth 300 million and the bank says nah we only value it at 220 million and gives him only an 110 million new loan for the next building the state of New York aka Laetitia James could charge him just like Donald Trump. And if she does not do that because she only wanted to get Trump it´s even worse because then she has proved beyond any doubt that this is a political trial.

[@vincenz5]

@@stefan6412his auditors testified that he blatantly lied to them. He outright lied about objective facts like square footage and contractual restrictions on properties. He inflated the value of his rent stabilized Park Ave apartments from $750,000 up to $50,000,000. Kevin O’Leary is trying to argue that a disgusting point of view: that wealthy business people always are committing aggravated fraud and we should tolerate that. Meanwhile a regular person would get the hammer if they misclassified income on a mortgage application.

[@nielsdelange3602]

@@vincenz5I agree Trump has some shady dealings but in the grand scheme of things there were no victims in this case nobody lost money. It is just a politically driven trail with the losers being New York itself because investors are gonna flee the state to red states with a much better business climate. The attorney general just doomed New York.

[@ligmasugma3650]

Apparently this judge knows more about finances than a big corporate bank giving out the loans. What in the world is this.

[@bradleybrown840]

what exactly are you smoking?

@@bradleybrown840 I think it was sarcasm ...

[@josephoritz777]

Exactly. Trump getting robbed by a judge is crazy

[@shatchett0]

Why would any company want to do business in New York? It might feel good now but New Yorkers will pay in the long run.

[@dennischiu272]

Because most of them aren't committing persistent, remorseless, high-profile financial fraud?

[@JimKittell6486]

@@dennischiu272 When there's fraud, there are victims. Name one.

[@dennischiu272]

Yes, "fraud requires victims" was indeed Trump's defense. It was ruled as bogus and Trump was fined for it. Take the L and put the argument aside.

[@SM-mz2hz]

@@dennischiu272 A kangaroo court would say that

[@JimKittell6486]

@@dennischiu272 Emperor, er, govr, of NY said "don't worry, this is Trump only" trying to get businesses to stay. She just shouted very loudly that they are out to get Trump,by weaponizing the judicial system.

[@charlesmaurer6214]

This same ruling can be used against every company in NY. All they need is 2 different values and the state takes it all. Every company listed in any of the NY exchanges is subject to the same treatment.

[@ceddie2762]

What part of the difference don't u hear or understand. My 12yo kid available to explain at a small fee

[@ozymandias8523]

​@@ceddie2762 Private bank: I consent to give you a loan 👍 Trump: I consent to pay it back with interests 👍 Government: I don't! 😡

[@DarkMark-cf1ec]

The IRS allways asseses your property value to be high as possible, to tax you more. Its legal, and its Even more legal when both sides have a choice in it.. consenting to haggling the price

[@gmaacentralfounder]

@@ceddie2762 DO you know that NYC real estate market is NOTORIOUS for overvaluing? Louis Rossmann has great videos on office-hunting in New York City, and NORM was inflating the SPACE of these offices by anything between 10% to 60%, and charging according to posted space, and not actual. And this would be a crime EVERY TIME SOMEONE ASKS ABOUT THIS SPACE, and really, really in the fraud area if landlord would actually LET the office for the listed price. And, obviously, this happens several times a day. I hope I explained like to a 12yo kid - now your turn.

[@dmitryletov8138]

​@@DarkMark-cf1ec this is not true, have you ever owned a house in US? There is a real evaluation done by IRS or local tax agency and there is a market value. My house for instance cost 640k for taxation purposes, but its market cost is 1mln, in the same time insurance evaluate it at 450k.

[@timfoley1474]

How did the judge arrive at $355 Mil penalty? Why that figure? Who lost money on the deals?

[@MrSirFluffy]

No one lost money, no one pressed charges. The banks were happy, the loan has been paid off years ago with interest.

[@THEBUTCHER1911]

Lol trump organization was found guilty of 17 felonies and the CFO Allen was sent to prison before this went to trial for civil damages. The people of NY were defrauded out of money that this guy lied on loans and his taxes .

[@maliktp13]

​@@MrSirFluffyCrimes don't need a victim to be prosecuted. Otherwise fraud would never be prosecuted.

[@MrSirFluffy]

@@maliktp13 It wasn't even fraud, it was literally common business practice. You offer collateral to the bank with a rough appraisal, they hire professionals to appraise the collateral and give a loan based on the amount they value it at. It is mind boggling how awful this case is. The only reason anyone would support this is purely political. It's like arresting someone for theft while grocery shopping because they are walking around with goods they haven't paid for. Equally nonsensical.

[@maliktp13]

@@MrSirFluffy It is illegal to do what he did. Something being commonplace doesn't magically make it legal. The banks he used should also be investigated and I hope this starts the process of reforming our laws in this because it is a brazenly corrupt pathway to subverting laws for more money.

[@photobyTaps]

"No one is above the law! Unless you are unfit for trial..." Lesko Brandon

[@lawrenceshdow]

Banks didnt sue... Because they wrote the terms of the loans and they profitted massively. The truth is; the banks decidedly accepted trumps self reported asset values because it gave them a leg up against competing banks to service the loans. They compete for huge contracts and try to provide the best terms possible. Ultimately they did that; got paid; made their money... It amazes me that they arent considered liable as well.

[@ozymandias8523]

Livable of what? Trump says a price, the bank appraise the value themselves and accept to give the loan, Trump pays it back. Is the market who decides the value not the government.

[@rodneymcvey1059]

They are not held liable, because they are not the political enemy. Plain and simple. This was a political witch-hunt , plain and simple. Your comment proves such.

[@JRS-j9m]

@@ozymandias8523 That's the problem, it sounds like the government now wants to set the value. Equity?

[@iamchillydogg]

No the bank did their own due diligence.

[@smsmoof8128]

and thats why this case will get thrown out, if Trump goes nuclear on NY he will bring the banks into the courts and ask to open their books ... I'm thinking that would never happen. This will get thrown out when Trump wants it to, he using the publicity as long as he can so the US Common Man keep ratcheting the anger vs Govt tyranny.

[@hiramnoone]

No crime, no victim. Banks agreed to the assessed value, made the loans, all paid back years ago...with interest.

[@shaneencalade4988]

Yes….. they didn’t explain that in the video.

[@hiramnoone]

@@shaneencalade4988 Of course not. Or the fact that the Trump deranged judge arbitrarily set the Mar-0-Lago property at 18 million, with zero real estate experience or credentials to do so, when the banks assessed it much higher, and fully adequate to secure the loan.

[@THEBUTCHER1911]

Lol. Ignorance is your superpower, I see. Remember that time trump organization was found guilty in a criminal court in New York on 17 felonies and the CFO Allen went to prison. I do.

[@maliktp13]

That doesn't magically make it legal to do.

[@THEBUTCHER1911]

So when you get a speeding ticket and pay a fine. Who is the victim 🤔

[@bonniedavis9076]

It's crazy All real estate deals are done in this manner. Its crazy the wrongness done to Trump.

[@ericheine2414]

So how is what Donald Trump has done any different from any homeowner that's brought or sold real estate in America? Think about it. When you go to sell your home you try to get as much as you can for it. Applying for a loan is no different you want the best estimate of your wealth in order that you get the best benefit from the banks. America benefits from the equity in personal property because that's what America uses to secure the national debt. The same is true with every home owned by every America in the nation.

[@st-hf2ik]

If you sign a statement telling the bank your home is 30,000 square feet and it is only 10,000 soft - what Trump did over and over again - you would end up in jail. If you told the city property tax folks the same home was only worth 1/10 of the value you told the Bank it was worth, you would go to jail. Trump is out and about only because he has enough money to keep paying lawyers and because dupes who think he is their" champion" for some crazy reason give him political cover.

[@golfrelax9795]

And... And... ALL OF KZbin PROPERTY GURU TEACH YOU TO DO THAT FOR REFINANCING... This is just pure hate(personal attack)

[@vincenz5]

I would not suggest signing off on material lies to your bank on a mortgage application. Trump is not a victim here.

[@iMatti00]

💰 ~ The money is mostly his “ill-gotten gains“ based on what he should have paid had he not been able to lower his interest rate based on lying to the banks. And in this case the banks did not lose money, but what if we all did that? What if we all lied about our income and assets, and then if we do default on a loan the bank is not able to recover their money, and when they can’t recover their money they charge everybody else more. I like shoplifting. And all the people who support trump sure don’t mind that Marilyn Mosby didn’t cost the banks any money but she is going to lose her lol license and she’s gonna be sentenced to prison for extremely low level financial fraud with her own 401(k) money. Trump has committed a lot of bank fraud and tax fraud. And he’s never been held accountable. Kind of reminds me of entitled minors that are never disciplined.b

[@jasonbeck7579]

@@vincenz5 There is no victim. But I like how you ignore what the comment is.

[@MadHatter1707]

So who’s the victim? NYC? Did the city not receive property taxes? Did Trump buy the properties and then fire all New Yorker’s or did he create jobs for New Yorker’s? Was there a crime? Is it standard practice to be conservative in asset value when obtaining a loan or mortgage?

[@BigBen621]

_Was there a crime?_ There was no crime, because he was tried under civil law. _So who’s the victim?_ He was found liable under a law that doesn't require that there be a victim, only that profits were made based on fraud. The intent of the law is not to reimburse victims of fraud, but to discourage fraud by making it expensive to the fraudster. And the law only requires disgorgement of the amount that was gained fraudulently, so that the fraudster ends up where he would have been if the fraud hadn't been committed. This is a ridiculously lenient penalty; exactly comparable to robbing banks and only having to pay back what you stole if you get caught. _Is it standard practice to be conservative in asset value when obtaining a loan or mortgage?_ Undoubtedly so. But it isn't standard practice to get an appraisal or establish a value, and then report to the prospective lender a value several times greater. You really ought to read the actual Decision. This will dispel any notion that the Trump organization was just fudging a bit on property values, etc.

[@jamesbrown5262]

@@BigBen621 I've seen lots of property lawyers comment that the judges valuation of mar a lago property was comically low. You would think that alone could help him in his appeal in addition to Letitia James running her campaign on going after Trump. I'm not sure it is illegal to target someone and then investigate until you find a crime, but its a scary precedent. I'm not a fan of Trump, but I feel the DOJ and states are unfairly going after him and stretching laws to charge him. He now has my support and I hope I get a chance to vote for him.

[@BizQAC]

That’s what I’m wondering, property value is a range.

[@BigBen621]

​@@BizQAC _That’s what I’m wondering, property value is a range_ This wasn't a case of fudging the numbers; it was a case of egregious, outright, deliberate, repeated lies. In one case, he valued a property as if he could build 2,500 houses on it, but he was actually only able to build 500. In another, he valued a piece of land he was planning to develop as if homes had already been built on it, inflating the value by $140 million. In probably the most famous case, he valued his apartment as if it had 30,000 sq. ft., when it actually only had 11,000 sq. ft., which overvalued the property by $200 million(!). In another case, he valued a property as if it were running a net income of $64 million a year, when in fact it was operating at a deficit. He valued apartments that were rent-restricted as if they were not. He included in his SFCs (Statements of Financial Condition) as available cash, tens of millions of dollars in a partnership that he didn't actually have access to. And the beat goes on... All of these fraudulent statements were made in order to get bank loans he would not have received without them, or at a much lower interest rate than he would have received without the fraudulent statement; and the entire penalty was simply a calculation of how much additional profit he made as a result of these fraudulent statements. I urge you to read the actual Decision, before concluding that this was just a matter of setting the valuation at the high end of a range, or fudging a bit or even a lot on the actual value.

[@xanthippusofcarthage8655]

@@BigBen621stop making things up. You sound unhinged.

[@4TwentyFour20]

every other real estate developer in new york does the same thing. just remember that what goes around, comes around

[@marymccluer1630]

He inflated the size of his flat by something like a factor of 10. While measuring square footage might not be exactly correct, that is a huge difference, and one would hope this isn't business as usual.

[@SM-mz2hz]

@@marymccluer1630 You mean nobody from the bank confirmed it before signing it off? That’s strange. A surveyor come to my house.

[@Brutus_Kennedy_Rutherford_III]

You sound like you haven't even read the indictment. I'd suggest you brush up on something before spouting off about it publicly.

[@4TwentyFour20]

@@Brutus_Kennedy_Rutherford_III who exactly is the victim again?

[@Brutus_Kennedy_Rutherford_III]

@@4TwentyFour20 if you're asking that question, you clearly have no real knowledge of the case, but there is a very clear and simple answer. Either familiarize yourself with the facts or go smoke another doobie.

[@fhd89234n8f43n7]

This seems like an awfully big penalty for something every business that’s in real estate does. The fact that the attorney general is a vocal critic of trump pretty much confirms that this is entirely a political decision.

[@BigBen621]

It's not a penalty, just a detailed calculation of how much more money the Trump organization made because of blatantly fraudulent claims to lenders. The requirement of the statute they were found liable under is simply to put the organization back where they would have been if they *hadn't* engaged in widespread, prolonged, egregious fraud. I wouldn't be surprised to find that most AGs are vocal critics of the fraudsters and criminals they prosecute; but that doesn't make the prosecutions political decisions. If there weren't a solid basis for a guilty finding in a criminal trial, or a liability finding in a civil trial, the outcome will be reversed on appear.

[@markbole2496]

that's politics....

[@jgig1329]

The motives of the prosecutor are irrelevant, what matters is whether or not the investigation was proper and the law was applied fairly. Whether it is applied fairly to others who have committed the same crime is a societal issue, not a legal one; it doesn’t generally get you out of a speeding ticket to whine “but everyone else was speeding too!”

[@MrGoalie2012]

a $100 speeding ticket isn't the same as Multibillion dollar assessments all over New York by various real estate companies. Iy they're going to investigate Trump then investigations should be launched into ALL real estate firms in the state. But New York is a joke and no one is held accountable @@jgig1329

[@jafiadaesther3955]

Like you do to Biden and his family?boy...your hypocrisy is outstanding

[@csconsulting484]

More truckers need yo boycott NY. Let the illegal immigrants run the city.

[@josediaz5299]

She practiced that quote on the mirror like a billion times I bet😂😂

[@wholeNwon]

"ON"???

[@cheylingarber5886]

My thoughts exactly 😂😅

[@Michelle-is1gt]

Doesn't matter. It was BRILLIANT when we heard it

[@wholeNwon]

@@Michelle-is1gt On her way to Governor while trump is on his way to jail.

[@kingfamilync6809]

Yep, while plotting to steal millions of dollars from Trump.

[@shiveshverma5795]

Before sanctioning loans, Banks do their own due diligence and market Valuation of the property and after that loan is granted. So , banks should also have been fined in this case. Very controversial decision .

[@TimeMachine7773]

The banks all said that it wasn't fraud and that they made a ton of money off of him. They also said they would want to do more business with him. It's the same if you get a home equity loan. You ask for a certain amount and the bank says, no. We don't value your house that high. Then you get a smaller amount. There was no crime here. Trump will win the appeal.

[@shinkii5819]

Clearly this was a political attack

[@thorn-1]

Trump took office Jan 20, 2017. The lowest price of gasoline was caused by the COVID pandemic . 2015 and 2016 oil prices were lower than any year of Trumps reign of lying Trump takes credit for the oil price collapse but COVID caused it.

[@TimeMachine7773]

@@JRS-j9m it's a political witch-hunt. If he wasn't running for president they wouldn't have done this. Every single one of these cases is crazy! The 84 million case to that woman is just as crazy. There was zero evidence and the evidence she had disproved her allegations, but since it was in New York, Trump lost.

[@gp1683]

You can fake being smart.....Really? How'd that work out for you?

[@notroll1279]

Well... like DJT. Hire a bunch of sad souls to sort out the debris behind you and conceal your worst blunders.

[@ellicel]

When I first saw that I thought it HAD to be some sort of SNL sketch and they ad just found someone who looked and sounded like her (like Tina Fay with Palin). Because surely no professional woman with a high profile job (where it's rather important to be smart) would EVER say this! Heck, I'd have thought no one would unironically say this!

[@mauricioangulos.2830]

Went to Siri Law School

[@GamesFromSpace]

About as well as faking having hair.

[@jm9371]

Trump is the smartest guy in the room..... while he is in a walk-in closet, alone, picking out what to wear for the next court appearance.

[@jasoncimino3886]

Show me the man ,I will find the crime.

[@jesse_-]

That basically what’s going on. Making up crimes to stop him running from President. It’s not working and all it proves is Trump can work under duress. It’s like the more you sling at him, the more powerful he becomes. I credit the democrats for campaigning for Trump. This far, they’ve done an awesome job! Keep think what you’re doing is hurting him.

[@LouisDuran]

No. You won't.

[@jutsu1]

How ?! ​@@LouisDuran

[@strategygalactic]

I bought my home at 5x the government appraised value. Did the seller commit fraud?

[@BigBen621]

No. So what's your point?

[@nautilusshell940]

Food prices are up 50% in 4 years, but the government says its only 15%. Is that fraud?

[@larryg.9187]

For doing a perfect job ... Kind of like making a perfect call ? ...

[@douglaslindsey7512]

Are you going to vote for Biden in Nov, yes or no?

[@DrakeSmith-tn6ij]

Yes, I am proudly voting for Biden.

[@reksapluss716]

@@DrakeSmith-tn6ij Literally destroying the country.

[@DrakeSmith-tn6ij]

Voting for Biden is not destroying the country.

[@douglaslindsey7512]

Of course it does. @@DrakeSmith-tn6ij

[@JRJdo]

Jared Kushner can loan him 💵2 billion💵

[@melanieparker]

I hope Trump pardons Hunter next year.

[@robertpalmer3166]

It is literally impossible to be that stupid, but you did it! Keep reaching for the stars.@@melanieparker

[@fincarosa]

How many of Trump's 91 crimes will President Biden pardon him for in 2025?

[@crazy8chief]

I can bet you Jared will not...he is keeping distance.

[@melanieparker]

@@crazy8chief Not Hunter, he knows he's protected the longer he hides behind daddy.

[@royby7941]

Nobody has charged Trump for any loses in obtaining loans so how can a government make this decision. What does a judge know about property business to award themselves $355m.

[@Sardonac]

Individuals seeking redress for private injury is a wholly separate matter from a regulator seeking redress for violations of the regulatory scheme. Just like how you can get a traffic ticket for speeding even though nobody was actually injured in an accident, the behavior is what caused the risk. Except, in this case, it's worse, since Trump defrauded so many by his misrepresentations.

[@markbole2496]

Politics now sits firmly in the judicial system. Two tiers of justice.

[@MrZealot1]

So NVIDIA, GOOGLE, MICROSOFT, AMAZON, and TESLA are not overvalued... American leadership and educated are stupid...

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

Is that admittance

[@stur.7502]

That is how the elementary school system in America works, always has, always will.

[@michaelvanderbil3918]

No body was harmed, no money lost, no bank defrauded, everyone was paid back

[@angelusmortis3150]

Maybe not murder. But one guy killed himself over what Trump did to his business.

[@franksoto3624]

many failed to listen to the last part " The likelihood this will be resolved by November is none" for a very long time or years I'll say. Did he pay all his loans? yes! Did he acquire low-interest loans? yes . who would not ?!!..where is the crime?!! so this is nothing but a POLITICAL in-nature prosecution..If this was not, then I would say that every financial institution in NYC very move out of the state because they are all "guilty" of the same crime...maybe some of you readers here are guilty too...inflating the values of your property to a get a loan? huh?!! watch out Leticia James is coming after you..unless you are Hunter Biden, of course...

[@jamesclark6707]

You should have no worries if you do not commit fraud.

[@hankgs]

Our family CANCELLED our Spring vacation to NYC That's Airfare, Hotel rooms, taxi transport and restaurants ALL NOT GETTING OUR $$$$$.... Stupid political witch hunts have consequences.

[@Bigfrank88]

Oh yeah, your vacation will bring the economy to its knees 😂

[@hankgs]

@@Bigfrank88 Every little bit helps pindajo

[@MCSurvivalMode]

Such an overreach of the government...

[@remolaughlin443]

Oh good we can sue car companies now for going over MSRP

[@BigBen621]

If that's what you got out of this, you haven't been paying attention.

[@stockae74]

Will the victim please stand up....Anyone? Anyone?

[@docm5720]

Bueller?

[@ozymandias8523]

Please the real slim shady stand up

[@vincenz5]

The auditors, other lenders, honest business people in the same market. Any other obvious answers required?

[@ArroEL922]

@z5So what actin did THEY take against Trump if they were defrauded? Will the fine go to them?

[@RahulMinhas-t1x]

"The outspoken democratic judge." The law system is rigged... scary

[@Mac-dt3iz]

You’re horribly misquoting. Latisha is not a judge, she is an attorney and does not make a determination about the outcome of the case. Also, yes, attorneys and judges all hold political views. Have you heard of the Supreme Court?

[@truthhurtswilky7785]

The Trumps got off easy. Ninety-nine percent of anyone else would be sent to prison. Where is the actual justice here?

[@opinionatedpossum1945]

Agreed. The charges should have been criminal.

[@wesleysingleton5626]

No one else would be charged as no one else has.

[@opinionatedpossum1945]

@@wesleysingleton5626 What a strange comment.

[@ReginaAdams-p9g]

Plus I don’t believe he’s done anything wrong whatsoever but run his business and loves my country

[@opinionmatters7119]

She’s evil. He did what everyone does in business. Get loans as cheap as you can!! Pay them back. Voila. Crazy

[@margiemachado4951]

approximately $1,000,000 a week interest.. 👍

[@RM-el3gw]

sounds lovely!

[@eduardosnow7374]

Good luck NYC with those grocery prices

[@Bigfrank88]

The trucker who called for the boycott already backed down😂

[@eduardosnow7374]

@@Bigfrank88 fake news

[@gardenstateshake8238]

​@@Bigfrank88 If the truckers dare to boycott, they will be sued too for failing to live up to their delivery contracts.

[@Bigfrank88]

@@eduardosnow7374 Boycott never happened 😅

[@workingman-xl6xh]

This is so unfair! Hopefully karma is coming in the next election. It's not going to well for Fani in GA.

[@jarrettbobbett5230]

Carma is a B

[@seth3189]

Trump is a PAB

[@kelbatt7729]

But Karma is spelt with a K

[@j.gabrielkoestel717]

NY is nuts. Mar lago is worth $18 million?! Fact is that Banks give better loans to large mortgages (investors loans) if they want the business. Any house owners knows 3 values of his hs: 1) market value (fluctuates), 2) assessed value by the city for property taxes (lower than fluctuating market to prevent appeals), 3) insurance, overvalues to ensure rebuild and to collect more premiums. The smirk laywer comments on the verdict but not on the case. In a business decision of the bank with their own appraisers money was lend at a good interest rate. Happens all the time. Credit card rates are negotiable, too. Or loans itself, or go to the competitor. It works both ways. Car purchase, too. And all agree and are happy. It is called business. NY beats up their cops, puts illegal immigrants into schools, high crime, theft, defund the police (no good for tourists, nobsecurity). And a sex scandal governor, Cuomo. NY, no thank you.

[@liyumarketshopping]

I live in an authoritarian country in africa and i have never seen a government prosecute a business deal no one complained about !!! 🤔🤔🤔

[@BigBen621]

Nobody said Mar-A-Lago is worth only 18 million. What was established is that it's *not* worth $405 million to $739 million, because that valuation was based on it being sold as a residential property; but the deed makes is a commercial property in perpetuity.

[@liyumarketshopping]

@@BigBen621 ... first of the property tax man said it thinks the property worth 18 million ! secondly in whatever premises or analysis the banks agreed it was worth whatever and took a risk ... What's your problem .... Thirdly ... there is no bank valuation ever equals property tax valuation because they are totally different valuations !!! Its crazy !

[@geoffrohde2886]

What do you mean - "Reimbursed" - there were no complaints, no losses, and no victims. So who gets the money, anyway? Geoff Rohde

[@Ater_Draco]

Victim? Complaint? It's a court of equity, not a criminal court. The losses were proven at trial. Did you get your degree in Finance law at Trump University?

[@BigBen621]

_there were no complaints, no losses, and no victims_ The Trump organization was found liable under a statute that doesn't require that there be complaints, losses, or victims-only financial gain as a result of fraud, with the amount of the gain disgorged so the guilty party does not benefit from the fraudulent activity. This intent is not to reimburse victims, of which there may not be any, but to punish and to discourage fraudulent behaviour. _So who gets the money, anyway?_ The State of New York.

[@pondracek]

Losses to who? Be specific. There was nobody on the plaintiff side with standing. The state profited from the income tax of the construction the loan paid for, and continues to profit from the building today. The bank profited from the interest on the loan they gave him. Normally you need a plaintiff in order to award damages. This is just the state declaring a fine and stealing the money.

[@Ater_Draco]

@pondracek another graduate from Trump University. Read the specific statutes for the Court of Equity in New York before making uninformed comments

[@pondracek]

@@Ater_DracoThe court of equity enforces fraud with nobody defrauded in their statutes? Seems like bad case law, if true.

[@wesleysingleton5626]

I will consider this fair when I see more cases come up for the same act.

[@dennischiu272]

A flimsy defense, and one Trump loves to use in court.

[@johnd8596]

​@@dennischiu272how is that a flimsy defense?

[@stefan6412]

You won´t see any other developer be charged the same way even tho they all "overvalue" their property as a starting position for their bargaining with the banks. That also the reason why there is always a disclaimer on those statements telling the other side to do their due dilligence and look at the property themselves. How can it then be fraud if you tell the other side look at the numbers yourself and if you dissagree lets haggle!

[@iMatti00]

I think there’s some truth to that, though I don’t know how many people have had something similar like this happened to them. But I see Trump as uniquely criminal with everything from Trump University, which he got off from with a fine that he paid a few million instead of it being a criminal offense like it should’ve been, and constant tax fraud and bank fraud. He was sued in civil court even for this, but this should’ve been criminal as well.

[@jamesclark6707]

Just a quick note: the law does not depend upon your "fairness' determination. Legally trained judges have that job.

[@LuciFeric137]

"DADDY SIR, DOES THIS MEAN I DON'T GET TO POUR THE CONCRETE ANYMORE?"

[@richinoable]

Exactly

[@trappedcat3615]

Was this supposed to be funny. You do realize Trump has property globally. This is a drop in the bucket.

[@michaelhorath6851]

@@trappedcat3615 😆😅🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂🙃🤡🤡🤡

[@insAneTunA]

Aaaaaah poor boy. Did you step with the wrong foot in the concrete today? 🤣@@trappedcat3615

[@hoonhwang4778]

​@@trappedcat3615I don't care whatever Donny got elsewhere as long as he's out of NY.😅

[@holaclive]

It's so ridiculous it shouid be overturned on appeal.

[@alyscstudjo6909]

Well if this ruling stands ANYONE going to a bank to get a loan based on the assessed value of property should be very very worried.

[@BigBen621]

You obviously don't have the slightest idea what fraudulent acts he committed. I urge you to read the actual Decision-you might just learn something.

[@Andy_T79]

​@Big_Ben_from_La_Mesa You haven't either or you'd be able to quote some actual segments and statements! Trump basically valued his property at figure A and the bank said no, thats too high, it's more like figure B and they negotiated and came to a mutual agreement onfigure C! there was no crime or fraud hence no criminal fraud case!! and the bank actually testifed against the state and said Trump was one of their best clients and wanted to continue the relationship as they themselves found NO wrong doing at all. Pleb.

[@JimKittell6486]

@@BigBen621 I don't have the desire nor ability to read 100+ pages of legalize. Please stop advising this

[@brotherx6205]

@@JimKittell6486 that sounds like a problem you need to fix. No honor in being incompetent.

[@BigBen621]

@@JimKittell6486 _I don't have the desire nor ability to read 100+ pages of legalize._ It's not 100+ pages, and it's in plain English, not legalize. 95% of the comments here are based on a complete misconception or misunderstanding of what this case was about. This only way to dispel this ignorance is to read the actual Decision.

[@SolaceEasy]

Ring! "Hey Vlad, buddy! Send the gold you promised."

[@grahamnichols1416]

"Cannot do comrade. Ve take the gold foil off and each chocolate. Very nice"

[@AcesAndNates]

Trump is compromised by Israel (a la Epstein). And Israel has been compromised by the Russian Federation. It’s not as simple as, “Putin puppet”

[@ronaldbowman891]

Don't worry Biden will get Putins support

[@joecoletti477]

Well that was a bunch of tyrannical BS. You’re trying to justify the government stepping in and creating a crime when no crime was committed.

[@patrickmcardle4771]

Bad for New York, bad for Americans

[@leeduong4919]

Joking justice system… insane and sick.

[@PikachuPromo]

#BOYCOTTNEWYORK

[@darthmandalore409]

It would be nice if it was clarified what the crime was. So who did he defraud? The banks? How did he do it? He inflated the value of his assets and used those to get a loan from he banks? Why did they not do their due diligence before handing out the loans? How much is still owed to them? All I keep on seeing is that it was fraud for $355 million and that he has to pay NY state, but I thought he defrauded the banks. So why aren't they getting the money?

[@JayListon93]

Exactly, he defrauded the banks and ultimately the people of New York. It’s not the responsibility of the banks, it’s the responsibility of the organization to provide accurate information. We have reporting laws for a reason. He purposely inflated his property values when applying for loans and undervalued his properties when paying taxes. This allowed him to take out more money which allowed him to make more money on false information. He would have never profited the way he did without the fraud. That’s where the $355 million fine comes from. He made money from ill gotten gains. It’s no different than someone lying about owning a million dollar home to obtain $500k loan. They take the $500k and Invest it and make or lose money. The victim is the financial institution. It’s illegal to commit fraud.

[@michaeltutty1540]

The statement "if it stands" is predicated on one thing. Before Trump et al may seek an appeal money and/or chattel equal to the value of the Judgement must be lodged with the Court. I believe that would include the pre-judgement interest which adds a further $100,000,000 or so to the value of the Bond. If the appeal is successful the bond is returned. If the appeal is unsuccessful or if the Appellate Court refuses to review the case the bond is forfeit immediately.

[@Lovesapuzzle]

I assume he does not have that in cash. Could he put up one of his properties in lieu of cash? If so, would the state be responsible for liquidating that asset/those assets and paying off any liens against it/them if the bond is forfeited?

[@BornAgainCynic0086]

@@Lovesapuzzle I think anything put up a surety has to be clear title and free of any liens as well.

[@Lovesapuzzle]

That raises another question. Does Trump own any property outright? It a safe better that there are loans attached to everything. @@BornAgainCynic0086

[@samwestfahl3959]

The required amount is the full 350 million, its not a private civil case, its Trump vs. New York.

[@johntidey8734]

I have seen Donny junior and the other one for sale on the dark web 😮

[@jlawsl]

Sooo, they charged a guy with something that had no victim or no plaintiff other then the state. No one was defrauded, no one filed compaints OTHER then the person that ran on the whole premise that she would take a single person down. Now, no matter how much you hate a single person for who knows what reasons, this is against everything American. It is rules lawyering at its core. The core of this charge was purely based on hatred for the defendent. I don't see a world where this goes to the Supreme Court, either liberal or conservative, and the ruling stands. It was so obviouse that the DA and the judge had stars in their eyes and only aimed to take down a person based on personal grievances, rather then an actual crime. Illegal aliens that beat up cops are given $1 bail. Somehow, this guy was given a $325M+ fee right ahead of an election year. I wonder if it is a coincidence.

[@thvv3012]

& yet so delicious

[@BigBen621]

_Sooo, they charged a guy with something that had no victim or no plaintiff other then the state._ You should read the finding. The law does not require a victim, only that the defendant have made profits as a result of illegal activities. And the penalty isn't a fine, it's simply the requirement to return the profits made as a result of the illegal activity, so that the defendant does not end up benefiting from illegal activity.

[@tcjusttc5418]

Remember it was from Michael Cohen’s testimony that gave the DA the hint to check.

[@jakebe4915]

Well, at least The Dictator's hands are clear of syphilis red spots today.

[@markbole2496]

Enough people in power want Trump's head. This is what happens when you take on established powers. "no one is above the law" -- if that was true, Biden's son would be in jail.

[@tyromenobber-fb2ls]

Can anyone imagine doing business in NY ...every organisation in NY is doing exactly the same thing...this is a very corrupt judge indeed.

[@colobisman6132]

Please verify this comment with appropriate documentation.

[@tyromenobber-fb2ls]

@@colobisman6132 would you believe it anyway...of course not. Perfect.

[@colobisman6132]

Give me a try. I’m not a righty or a lefty.

[@paulm9500]

This case will not stand appeal. Those Attorney Generals should go after career politicians if they want the public to believe this isn't weaponization of the system against someone they hate

[@wholeNwon]

One career criminal at a time. And the 90+ page decision is very well-reasoned. It should easily survive appeal.

[@HWCWTD]

No basis for appeal. Multiple witnesses, including those partially responsible- Michael Cohen. Tax returns, and other of documents. More than enough evidence of crimes and trump never denied committing the fraud, lol

[@Mis-AdventureCH]

Dear Wall Street.....you're next.

[@hermanlin1688]

Can someone please explain to me who was harmed monetarily (which banks? How much in loss) in this fraud cases?

[@optimistic5778]

This is outrageous.

[@sunshadow9704]

Are you saying the fine must be more? Most people would agree with you.😂😂😂

[@spaceoddity2485]

how come noone elese has even been conviced of this crime before ? Because it's not a crime

[@johnnylind973]

To be honest i hope he will lose everything , he stole it in the first place . And he wont need it in jail , so clean him out before sending him to jail .

[@dstorm7752]

Lenders have to perform their own due diligence, so there really was no fraud and some rational appellate judge will overturn this absurd ruling

[@jamesclark6707]

Good try. Maybe you can be the judge next time, after you learn the definition of fraud.

[@dmitryletov8138]

​@@jamesclark6707 it is not a try, it is a rule. Every US citizen refinancing their house doing an overestimate and then lender send the appriser to evaluate the actual cost of the house

[@PauloSilva-cy7uh]

@@jamesclark6707 - why don´t you clarify us?

[@BadLineMTB]

@@PauloSilva-cy7uh Lie about the value of your assets for your benefit to the state and federal government. They will clarify it for you.

[@codyg2921]

@@BadLineMTByour not understanding what they are saying you can’t lie you say hey bank I think it’s worth x $ then the bank will do their own research and appraisals and either agree or disagree and give you loan not to mention they grossly undervalued his property if anything and Mara lago isn’t even in New York so many things that makes this wrong it’s unreal

[@bemhibbits4157]

Trump Tower will be a Spirit Halloween store by this summer

[@davidwalsh6608]

So I believe my property is worth $100m and i want to borrow $85m on the back of it. The bank sends in their independent valuers and agree with my valuation. I borrow the $85m over 5 years and repay the loan plus interest. A public official who does not agree with my political views intervenes and states that the property is worth $50m. This official has no property qualifications and all of the independent real estate experts disagree with the valuation. I am then indited for fraud and fined. The fine prevents me running for office.

[@Hey_Blinkin]

Ive been a real estate investment banker the last twenty years, and this is the most egregious lawsuit I've ever heard of. To infer the banks don't do their due diligence and are somehow being defrauded is ridiculous. We are the experts. Its our loans. We evaluate them, not the city. If a particular bank thinks they're being defrauded they'd have brought a suit to court. This is such a stretch, no one will be able to defend it outside of this jurisdiction.

[@Mac-dt3iz]

lol yes, because banks did not believe they were being defrauded, the fraud does not exist! Trump logic at its finest.

[@BigBen621]

Read the actual Decision and get back to us...

[@Hey_Blinkin]

@@BigBen621 Tell me, which part do you agree with? In your professional opinion.

[@markbole2496]

Sad day for America -- everyone sees that standing up against Washington will cost you

[@Hey_Blinkin]

@@markbole2496 how's this different from what Putin and the Kremlin does? Dems are masters at projection.

[@alexsnemos]

I hope this is only the beginning for the chieftain maggot

[@ericnelson9100]

Oh it is, it is, it is! This is where we're going to get tired of winning!

[@KarenBillman-o6p]

And what created this orange evilness is income inequality. Diaper Don is a symptom. Corporate greed is the disease.

[@dawensci7134]

​@@ericnelson9100 trump 2024 for sure

[@catsway2407]

Could it be karma for his casino deal of the 90s quite a few of his supporters lost their finances while Trump avoided bankruptcy and kept his wealth.

[@atenas80525]

Judge and James should be disbarred and thrown in jail

[@jafiadaesther3955]

Yea because your Supreme leader is untouchable right?

[@w12p67]

Why can't I find a decent legal analysis? I want to know exactly what he did and what laws were broken. I'd also like to know how the judgement funds from Trump will be used. If the banks were defrauded, it should all go to the banks.

[@neveroutworked254]

The banks are not real estate agents. Their only concern is if their loans are safe. They concluded that Trump is a safe bet and did profitable business with him. Apparently, Engoron and James know more than the banks.

[@atenas80525]

Who did this hurt? Who are the victims? Did Trump bail on any loans? Did any banks get short-changed?

[@AndrewRoberts11]

You missed the pre-judgement interest, that ups this ruling to > $455m, add last week's > $83m defamation judgement, incurred legal fees of > $40m. Add a potential substantial penalty, in April, if tax deductible campaign donations were used as hush money. Someone may need to find, or borrow, $700 million, simply to appeal the rulings of the first half of 2024.

[@lonpfrb]

Eric was clear that ruzzian funding is no problem. The FSB will agree as it's putin approved Kompromat..

[@L0kias1]

The problem is who is going to be the bond holder / underwriter? 😂 what bank or insurance agency would touch it lol

[@MundiTaurus]

Your post means nothing... _to many who don't care!_ You know to whom I refer. The griftees. :-)

[@marymccluer1630]

He's taken most of the available donor money this past year for his legal fees, so much so that the Republican party was broke and Ronna had to resign.

[@bokhans]

@@L0kias1no one will. He needs to put up the cash himself. No one will lend him the money!

[@myleswelnetz6700]

He has NOT A PENNY left now!

[@Mister-Reno]

Chickens are coming home to roost.

[@gagawe2]

Hillary baited him into admitting, in front of the world he's to smart for the IRS. The new york times, got 20 years of is record force NYS to go after him, now the irs is auditing his tax he might owe them more then 100mill. Plus the other 450mill. All he had to do was keep his mouth shut.

[@manimalboy]

New york city need money for venezuelans undocumented for food, hotel , credit cards??...... ??

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

Lol

[@johnwobma6532]

I'm all in! Let's Climb Aboard The Trump Train 🚂 Trump 2024 🇺🇲 VOTE ‼️

[@davidmackey5172]

If the Truckers support Trump, the bank will also , which could hurt businesses in New York state. Witch could hurt productivity in NY,NY.

[@johnwobma6532]

In my estimation this so called judge and so called attorney general need to be brought under scrutiny and investigation! Not by a firm closely associated with them but an outside source within the State of New York! This is unlawfulness of a high degree! I trust some action be taken at the appropriate time! Truth always prevails!

[@mangamax23]

Art of steal? Steal from who exactly? This is stupid.

[@jacksmith-mu3ee]

From banks

[@danielcrane991]

What about other real estate companies who have done if not the same but similar business practices like the Trumps, where is the NY State Attorney General on these companies? Is this a trend that will be addressed or is this selective prosecution? I can’t believe that the Trumps are the only people who did something like this. Also what about the Sacklers what’s up with that case?

[@JOMAR3]

What is happening here has Nothing to do with New York Business and Everything to do with stopping Donald Trump from being POTUS, The World is not blind to the massive Corruption that it is taking to hold Trump back from putting an end to the people that are "FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGING AMERICA" Using any means necessary, We are in fact seeing the infancy of WW3 as we live and breath. Take that to the bank.

[@Lolatyou332]

They're waiting until those companies come out as conservative.

[@chrisgarner5765]

lol NY is a sad joke!

[@mikejaludi-nj6tp]

Throw him in jail already for God's sake.

[@ericheine2414]

It is the responsibility of the lending Institution to make sure all loans are properly secured. This follows the rule of "Buyer beware." The Lending institutions did their risk assessment and found the possibility of being able to foreclose on Donald Trump's properties equitable. The Lending institution purchases that risk they too suffer from their own guile and avarice. They agreed to this.

[@paulaknight6382]

Charge the fake judge this amount instead!!

[@billywills4391]

It must really suck for a rich man to be held accountable for their crimes, just like a poor man.

[@bargeman100]

What crimes? Can't name any can you?

[@bradbray1737]

@@bargeman100 the case starting in March for hush money WILL find him to be a criminal. Mark my words. It is an open/shut case, should take no longer than a month at best, MAYBE 6 weeks. So get your popcorn ready and enjoy the coming show!!!! I know I will. BTW... Diaper Donnie is not even half way through the 91 counts against him! Be patient!!!!! 😃

[@R0MANS109]

What crime? And where's the victim?

[@svgs650r]

Don will be doing “incontinence” ads very soon!

[@MomMom4Cubs]

"Oops, I Crapped My Pants!"

[@deborahmuller7559]

Adult diapers with his face on them.

[@marymccluer1630]

Trump-brand catheters?

[@douglasslist3200]

"reimburse" whom?

[@gnawbabygnaw]

That monitor will drive Trump crazy. Er.

[@tcpnetworks]

If he can't post bond, he can't appeal. You need somebody to post the bond.... This isn't a given that he has the money.

[@A-Distant-Star]

Mr. Zauderer has given us a clear, non-judgemental assessment of this ruling. How refreshing! Thank you!

[@differencemaker242]

New York will find out the hard way that they cant do this. They will find out real soon.

and the unintended consequences will far out weigh the 370 million even if they do get that money... they have cemented a loss of billions in other areas now... they have cut off their nose despite their own face

[@vincenz5]

The “law and order” folks are tripping over themselves now to tell us about how the government shouldn’t enforce the law for their cult leader.

[@aread7]

The Cloward-Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. It is the strategy of forcing political change leading to societal collapse through orchestrated crises. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, amassing massive unpayable national debt, and other methods such as unfettered immigration thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse by overwhelming the United States.

[@stur.7502]

Thank-you.

[@kachinalajones8975]

Bravo for justice happening for grifter family

[@anthonybelvin2085]

Who did Trump grift? Who are the victims? The banks, including Deutsche Bank, defended Trump and they all said they made money?

[@kevc6115]

If lawyers had difficulty getting paid before this, good luck now guys! "Better Call Saul" baby 👶

[@wholeNwon]

I'm sure they submitted daily bills that were paid.

[@jericullen9252]

Wish I could walk into a Bank and say my 250,000 house is worth a 1,000,000? And they just give me the money? Com'on Man 🛑

[@dau2473]

Yup so any banks come forward as a witness in the case and say yes, Trump org did payoff their appraisers to lie about the asset values?

[@a.i.privilege1233]

People do it all the time

[@eentun9340]

@@a.i.privilege1233just because people do it all the time it doesn’t make it unlawful.

[@WakeRunSleep]

@@eentun9340the bank still does its own due diligence. No harm no foul unless your a liberal prosecutor

[@eentun9340]

@@WakeRunSleep you probably realize it’s not only about the bank but mostly about the laws of the state/city you’re doing business in. Plus when knowingly you commit fraud it’s not far fetched to expect an indictment. Laws are set for everyone equally however if one party does break it more often than another your conclusion will be liberal are law abiding citizens.

[@marm842]

Bye bye new york state its done. All bussiness will be out of state

[@Markhope-e3z]

Well, you can kiss real estate developers goodbye because if this bogus ruling stands they will be leaving from new york.

[@BigBen621]

_if this bogus ruling stands [real estate developers] will be leaving from new york_ The Horror!

[@Ater_Draco]

😂 Trump is a small family business that doesn't even make the top 20 real estate companies in Manhattan, let alone New York, the US or the whole planet. You think powerhouse companies that make trillions in NYC are going to leave because one crime organization got shut down? Take some Copium

[@markbole2496]

No, prop developers need only voice support for Biden. You're safe if you're a member of the party.

[@jamesclark6707]

Goodbye fraudulent real estate investors!

[@BigBen621]

@@jamesclark6707 And good riddance! Don't let the door hit you in the ... ; well, you know.

[@Av-vd3wk]

Cue Nelson from the Simpsons: “Ha-Ha!!”

[@missmarya747]

Hopefully nothing will be left🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉