Trying to Make 18th Century Stays: Toiles and Tribulations

[@LiljaHusmo]

Toiles and Tribulations! Genius! 😂 Stay patterns are always to wide at the front for me, stabbing me in the armpit, the same as your issue! I also have to do so many toiles!

[@KenZchameleon]

Morgan and Bernadette and Abby and Nicole are my go-to people!

[@venlakirahvi]

I wonder if you know Mariah Pattie here on KZbin. She has videos on how to draft stays and bodices in a simple-ish way, using your own body measurements.

[@angelamay734]

Her chickens are so cute!

[@sannepedersen3649]

Runfridr have made an adaption for wider hips, which Marias patterning apparently does not fit

[@kimikohide6940]

I used that method but the modified version for larger bust , and it worked surprisingly well.

[@jac_and_the_making_of]

Me, making my second pair of stays: "I'm totally going to hand stitch these ones fully!" Me, remembering how many channels have to go in: "ahahahaha, no." May the stitching gods be with you!

[@jac_and_the_making_of]

@@classyhistoricalsewing yeah, I wish I had the patience to hand sew. All my 14th century stuff is done by machine, too. Minus eyelets, but I like making those.

[@penelope-oe2vr]

Boning channels are an exception *for sure* to hand sewing. No woman should put herself through that!

[@sonjialeyva]

Thank you for making videos like this! It really helps to see "expert" seamstresses struggle with the same problems as us novice/intermediates. I can't wait to see the next part of your journey.

[@roxiepoe9586]

Diving down an unexpected rabbit hole: "...spent all my spoons..." piqued my curiosity. :) Thank you. Later: Wow. How had I never heard this before? It does help me understand.

[@waterbitten]

I have the same struggle with not knowing what's wrong and where to start. :(

[@strawycape9693]

Oof, my 18th C stays mockup is in a bin in the back of my wardrobe waiting for me to gather the courage to try again... thank you for sharing your oh so relatable struggles with us

[@makeda6530]

The struggle is definitely real. I haven't gotten to the point of attempting stays (I literally finished my first lightly boned bodice 2 days ago) so thank you for this noble sacrifice, fitting is such a scary thing.

[@polyannakabambi2068]

I haven't even watched yet, but have to like for the punny title!

[@asiabryant207]

Same. Giggled as I clicked

[@diamondslashranch]

Having them fit and feel comfortable to you is the most important thing I think. You will get there if you keep trying you’re smart and you will get this.

[@ColleenMarble]

I sewed my first ever set of stays and ran into issues because my bust measurement is big but my back is small. I ended up combining sizes and making a large-bust adjustment. I posted a video about my lessons learned during fitting. It was an adventure for sure. It was the Simplicity pattern you mentioned, and the Big 3 commercial patterns always have too much ease. It's frustrating. But anyway I do like seeing your process because it helps the rest of us feel more normal. :-) OOh, also, the front tabs on my stays also poke out! I don't know how to solve that.

[@bunhelsingslegacy3549]

Opposite problem here, every time I follow something for my bust measurement I end up with the armscyes pinching the front of my armpits and having to take material out of the front :) Everyone's different!

[@HoneyBear36]

Stays are on my list to make but man all the fitting intimidates the crap out of me!

[@RetroClaude]

My next suggestion was going to be 'It was the best of toiles, it was the worst of toiles' 😂 any more?

[@michellecornum5856]

These are the toiles that try Cat's soul.

[@emmadavey3892]

To toile or not to toile…. ( I think we all know the answer)… I have always relied upon the kindness of toiles….a toile in time saves nine… you want the toile, you can’t handle the toile….I’m sorry I’ll stop. 😜

[@RetroClaude]

@@emmadavey3892 hahaha brilliant! I love these!

[@astra1653]

Great video, and it gives me some encouragement! 💖 I also like that the closed captioning is super impressed as well, as it thinks you are making up all of these "stairs," as opposed to stays, lol. My sarcastic brain keeps thinking, "Well, that's a heck of a sewing machine she's got if it can do stairs too!"

[@SimpleDesertRose]

Ugh, fitting issues. The one thing I hate over pinning and cutting is fitting. I don't have a dressmakers form so I have to do all fitting to my body and sometimes I get myself with the pins. That last mock up looked like it had the best fit so far. I look forward to seeing progress for the fitted pairs.

[@dee-annegordon5959]

So relatable. I made my first corset this past winter and getting the fit right took forever and multiple mock ups. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

[@sarahwatts7152]

"I get knocked down, but I get up again, they ain't never goin' to keep me down..." Also, if you have more video ideas like your explainer for mourning clothes, I would love to see them! It might be a good video to make while doing the stays, as it would likely involve easier editing (?)

[@sadiemcc9363]

I literally am handsewing a pair of stays based on that Patterns of Fashion 5 pattern you used as I watch this! It's been really great for me, since I've very short-waisted so the gore in the back made a big difference for me. I substituted the 1/2" strips of baleen at the front for 1/2" steel boning and it works very well for me as a busk.

[@stevezytveld6585]

Fitting. The struggle is real. And nothing seems to burn me out of spoons for the day than dealing with something I only sort-of understand. Your final mock-up looks great. Well done. - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown

[@bunhelsingslegacy3549]

Doing fittings by yourself in a mirror trying not to stab yourself with pins because you don't have a dress form and do have a body shape different from most patterns (my 40" bust measurement is mostly back muscle, armscyes always cut into my front armpits and I have to take material out at the front because my bust isn't actually all that big) is hard enough, but my biggest reservation about stays and corsets is having NO CLUE what proper fit feels like. I haven't even worn a bra in almost a year and a half, and even in the Before Times, I never could stand wearing one longer than it was strictly required for physical activity, they're always too tight under my bust. Mockup 1 of a half-corset based on an Athletic Corset pattern I found online for free and sized up to my waist measurement (hoping to get something like a comfortable sports bra) is sitting in the "don't wanna deal with you now" heap, but once I'm done this pinafore based on Morgan Donner's how to draft a medieval kirtle to your measurements video and finish a shirt/shift to go under the kirtle, actually getting some zip tie bones into it and seeing if I can find someone more critical than my wonderful husband ("You look sexy in anything!") to help fit it properly. Whatever properly means.

[@kateatschool]

Good luck, Cat! My project plans always fall short of my ambition. I am so impressed that you keep your on at it.

[@zeliasims1089]

So on the subject of the split in the top half of the center front, Mariah Pattie did a video talking about all of her stays she made and mentioned how that split helps with breathing when wearing them for long periods of time.

[@emilyhayes7449]

I too struggled with the underarm digging in. Eventually just cut the boning a bit shorter and it's so much comfier

[@Feelicitasy]

omg how did you know I was about to start 18th century stays??!? This is so helpful, thank you so much

[@agimagi2158]

This is going to be helpful! Working on my cardboard stays mock up atm

[@carmenfringer4740]

Seen a thing that said..bust measurements sometimes don't work on contour and close fitting garments because your front isn't the same as your back half. So my back technically fits a diffrent size than my front according to my measurements if I measure pattern pieces...😳😳😳 made me look at every bodice I ever made and had to alter.

[@bunhelsingslegacy3549]

I hear you, I'm a bit ... differently proportioned too, the 40" bust measurement I get when I measure isn't because of boobs, it's because of back and shoulder muscle so the front of the armscye of most off the rack "fitted" clothing digs into my armpits (which is why I have no idea what "properly fitted" feels like and just wear baggy clothes). And every single pattern I've ever drafted based on my measurements, I've had to take entire inches out of the boobs at the mockup stage and now I knowI have to look at sideseams to make sure they're vertical and not slanted towards the back, and that they're centred under my arm.

[@carmenfringer4740]

@@bunhelsingslegacy3549 totally know what you mean with the arm thing..I have a short upper body and boobs so off the rack usually means armpits that are closer to mid waist than my arm and sleeveless looks like a fancy 80s muscle shirt.

[@dragonfly_closet]

Really appreciate you sharing all this 💚

[@alzbetadostalova2040]

When I made my first stays from the ralph pink free half boned stays, it was too small for me eventhough it was for my measurements. It was supposed to be just a mockup but I spent so much time with them, so I thought I'll use them as they are. One quarantine later (about 8 months) I decided to go back and make proper stays, so I took the pattern and enlarged it. In the end I took out about 8 centimetres from the original and still can lace it closed. I plan to make a third attempt. Good luck with your stays

[@ChriaraCass]

I’m no expert but… I think 🤔 you’re on the right path by marking the patterns waist line on the mock-up and then wearing it and seeing if it’s shifting up which could just be that the stays aren’t releasing open enough for your hips and bum

[@katerrinah5442]

Me: wants stays that fit nicely like yours Also me: has been putting them off for 6 months because I hate mockups

[@GoingGreenMom]

Can't wait to see the stays when you get them done!

[@rowenazuercher5363]

This was so helpful! I actually feel less nervous about diving into making a pair of stays. So glad you shared the process :)

[@trudicole3520]

You are very brave

[@annaj1056]

The last ones look great!!! I've been in mockup-hell too, but I'm really new to doing mockups at all. I don't know how to adjust things yet, but I'll get there eventually. I'm on mockup 2 of a top and I'm pretty sure I chose the wrong size for the first one, so I've cut out a different size (and bigger cup size) which will hopefully work out better. I haven't sewn it up yet. I'm also making a skirt without a pattern... there was a tutorial I was going to follow, but I'm changing so much about it the only thing that is the same is that it will be gathered. Today I figured out how to inset pockets into fabric that isn't a side seam. They're not perfect but it's what I needed! *mind-blown*

[@ellebea6665]

Check out Amercan duchess guide to 18th century dressing, great tips on stays

[@elvan9747]

You had me at "toiles and tribulations" 🤣

[@jerahyassine3192]

I can’t wait to see your stays!

[@robintheparttimesewer6798]

I haven’t tried stays yet. My daughter wants a pair… I will have to move in to her place to do the fitting!!!

[@fabioferreiragomes]

INCRÍVEL..ESPETACULAR..MARAVILHOSA

[@bellaadoraa]

11:34 hobalangles in the subtitles had me laughing

[@threadsintime6379]

Awesome to watch your process and very helpful for me xx I’ve made three sets of 18th century stays, each of them with their misgivings.. the next set will be as custom / perfect as possible )) I hope ((

[@kirstenpaff8946]

I am currently working on my fist pair of stays (using the American Duchess 8162 pattern) and I have the exact same struggle of not knowing how to fit it properly. I can't tell if the fit is wrong, let alone how to fix it. I didn't do much in the way of mockups though...so that might be my issue.

[@fatsparrowsewing]

Well done for working through mock-up purgatory!!! Much respect! I did four failed mock-ups for my daughter's 1865 ball gown last year, trying to adjust a Patterns of Fashion pattern to fit a six year old, then finally grabbed some scrap fabric and a marker and draped right on her! Finally success! Total game-changer! Now I adore draping and have no interest in going back to patterning, but I know I'll have to! 😅

[@GiraffeLoverJen]

This has actually made me quite worried. Just today I purchased the fabric supplies for making stays.

[@judithcollins3744]

That was fun.

[@irisheising329]

The 18th century stays fitting Facebook group is really helpful:)

[@josefinebrannlund7297]

🍀

[@TreScotts1Fan]

Underthings are hard Cat. I can relate. I am currently redoing stays. I got to the end and realized I needed to completely redo them. I am halfway done. Rooting for you.

[@bobbie9066]

still watching (and loving it!), but in case no one else has mentioned - the audio from your stories footage keeps intermittently cutting out? it's happened a couple of times right before 6:14

[@jkabholat]

☺️

[@KathrynsRavens]

Fitting stays is hard!

[@cornbreadfedkirkpatrick9647]

Hello, I just discovered a new elastic thread from Germany called Saraflex and the only thing that you have to be careful is when you wind it on a bobbin you have to be slow or you'll warp it.

[@annie.sanders]

this was so helpful. I'm planning on venturing into my first attempt at sewing stays. I'm still considering which pattern to use and I've had my eyes on the Red Threaded pattern. however the pattern says it for intermediate or advanced. so maybe I should try the American Duchess ones first? I'm not too concerned about historical accuracy at this point. what do you think?

[@CatsCostumery]

I found the American Duchess ones very easy to follow and a good introduction to stays :)

[@annie.sanders]

@@CatsCostumery thanks, I'll definitely look into those

[@witchvideofly]

It's it just me or is there sound cuts on the mock up?

[@clownfuneral4580]

I just bought the scroop pattern and am very nervous to start! Luckily I need to make a shift first... yay for putting things off! I’ll definitely be coming back to this video when I’m making them for company. I hope you don’t mind me asking but as someone in the uk, where do you buy your boning and other corset supplies? Thanks!

[@CatsCostumery]

the two places I usually use are Sew Curvy and Vena Cava :)

[@etainne2001]

i had the same experience with that pattern generator, so many false starts and an end result i want to have be slightly different. I think it's just the way the process goes...

[@jos7225]

Wonderful! Keep fiddling with them until they are just perfect, I'm sure many a 17C woman would have tacked and pinched and fiddled with theirs until they were happy with the fit as well.

[@penelope-oe2vr]

The bottom of the front seems too short to me. Like it should go lower down on your tummy on the sides of the center.

[@marthabenner6528]

The front closure right where the busam is is to change how perky "the girls" are throughout the day. cups are also a wonderful thing whether you make those half Moon cups, or if you buy bra insert cups. Mariah Patty has several videos out for stay making, stay pattern making, and construction experiments she did. She makes them to wear everyday. I highly recommend her. She also uses patterns of fashion 5.

[@marthabenner6528]

The front top closure is also there because your bosom changes size throughout the month, for obvious reasons.

[@cornbreadfedkirkpatrick9647]

Check out Townsends' websites for 1700s things

[@Downhomeherbwife]

Mock up 3. - the top front is way too high. Patterns of Fashion looks much better

[@bowenarrows7819]

That clever video title!

[@lesleyharris525]

Thank for sharing your struggles, I'm sorry but the comments are so funny.💖

[@nerl7473]

I'm getting the impression that your right side of the body is slightly shorter than the left