TS-12 vs SRM 1216 vs Garaysar TR-19S Overview Pt.1

Thanks for 200 subs everyone!
A overview of the three horizontal magazine shotguns on the market.
The IWI TS-12, SRM ARMS M1216, and the Garaysar TR-19S.
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[@1977TheHammer]

TS12 is 17 round capacity. It allows 3 tubes of 5 shells plus 1 in the chamber and 1 ghost loaded to the lifter (for 2.75" shells). 3" magnum shells will drop that to 4 per tube (14 total). Noble Sport 2.25" mini buckshot shells do cycle, and allow you to run 6 shells per tube (20 rounds total). Its worth noting that the TS12 uses 3 tubes, instead of the cheaper 4 tube models you see in this comparison. With the TS12 you get 7 rounds up front, and then 5 and then 5. Only 2 manual rotations to deliver the full load. The 4 tube guns obviously aren't as fast to use since they need 3 rotation pauses.

[@Zenden1ST]

The IWI Tavor 12 manual says the shotgun does not take mini shotgun or shorty rounds. What makes the noble sport 2 1/4 rounds special. I have a Tavor 12 and I did a little research and found out that the Tavor 12 could theoretically fit 26 Augilia mini shells, that's if it could work, I haven't found any reason it couldn't if there is a reason what can i do to get it?

[@RealKingOfTheLab]

@@Zenden1ST The Noble Sport Mini-buck shells are 2.25" instead of the super short 1.75" so they cycle better (not just in the TS12 but in most any shotgun). Also, the slightly larger shell allows it to pack six 00-buck pellets at 1250fps. That extra speed is from the decent amount of gas in the shell. Its that gas that cycles the gun. Weaker mini shells just don't have the gas pressure/volume to cycle a semi-auto. The TS12 has an advantage here over most any other semi-auto gas gun in that its adjustable block allows you to open up the gas port enough to cycle that bolt on the LOW pressure/power setting. Normally mini-shells are just a pump-action thing, but the TS12 does well with the 2.25" Noble Sport mini-buck shells if you can find them. ;)

[@oakland002]

Great video , very informative , and your area look super nice and quiet

[@foxxoboxxo1611]

Somehow: These types of guns are exempt from WA's AWB. At least thats how it seems, going to likely get one of these if things turn out this way.

[@CelticSamoan]

The width comparaisson was very helpful. Never seen the IWI except in profile not nearly as bulky as I thought it was. Thanks for the info. Also got a good laugh from the goats heckling you, keep it up! Congrats on 200 heres to more!

[@bp814]

What's a comparaisson? I couldn't find that in the dictionary.

[@biggysnaps2827]

12:21 That's the reason I bought mine haha. was also surprised to find out they do make full auto ones

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Yeah i’ve seen a few videos of the full auto one, it looks really mean.

[@wolfox2007]

The IWI TS12 will "ghost load" an extra cartridge in the feed elevator to hold a total of 17, 2¾" rounds. ;>

[@oakland002]

Great video , very informative , and your area look super nice and quiet Around 17:20 upper left by the tree line , I think some sort of deer came running out ..

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Thanks so much! It's really nice out here, I wouldn't be surprised if you did see a deer in the background, they've actually gotten used to the sounds of gunfire by now.

[@1977TheHammer]

The action on the IWI TS12 is a short-stroke piston-driven, adjustable gas system similar to a beefed up HK 416. The SRM is a cheaper blow-back design similar to a HK MP5 which is a pistol-caliber cartridge. This has the nasty side effect of higher recoil, and no adjustability for different ammo power. The Turkish shotgun is gas operated, but it's that goofy gas-cup sleeve design common to turnelli knockoffs. The tear down to get to it and clean it is elaborate, requires special tools, and isn't "adjustable" in any real way short of rebuilding the action. The TS12 is vastly superior action, and being from IWI, designed to IDF durability testing standards. I wouldn't put that blow back SRM even in the same category.

[@WVGunsNGoats]

I wanted to compare them as they are pretty much (with the exception of that one addon for the benelli) the only examples of the horizontal mag fed shotguns on the market. Just a neat way to make a high cap shotgun without the issues of a magazine.

[@1977TheHammer]

True, in semi-auto there aren't many tube-fed platforms out there. The IWI is pretty unique in build quality as well. If you are ok with pump-actions you get a few more options for high cap shotguns like the KelTec KSG, the S&W M&P12, and the Standard Manufacturing DP-12 double barrel. Those don't hold as much as the TS12, but they do add a second tube and use the bullpup design to make the tubes as long as possible/functional. Pump-action typically means you can run those under-powered mini-shells for more pulls of the trigger, though they're probably not great ballistically for hunting or home defense... but they're fine for people playing John Wick at a 3-gun event or random range day with the boys. I really don't like the idea of a box magazine for anything using compressible shotgun shells, but a decent drum-mag design can solve that problem... although it usually runs you $200 to $500 just for a decent drum... and the weight involved is SUBSTANCIALLY more than the IWI/SRM mag tube set ups. Ideally someone will spring-load the IWI tube some day to get a full run without manual release and rotation.@@WVGunsNGoats

[@attakconsulting]

Good video Sir!!!

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Hey thanks a lot, I appreciate the praise, and also that you watched!

[@TheCobradragon]

Great vid definitely gonna snag a 1216 American made!

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Thanks for watching! I am filming the second video now as time allows.

[@TheCobradragon]

@@WVGunsNGoats Great excited to see it! You should do a close up of each to show the manual of arms! At least an up to date higher def.

[@artfejfar4062]

Umm the tavor is made in the USA as I understand the folks I been talking to

[@1977TheHammer]

Yep, Made in Pennsylvania! @@artfejfar4062

[@Zenden1ST]

Don't act dumb...

[@1977TheHammer]

The IWI TS12 has a single 1-piece, full length NATO rail. The 1216 as a split rail. The IWI TS12 has MLOK down the sides as well. The IWI TS12 uses the Benelli/Beretta Mobil (standard) choke tubes. That opens up all kinds of adaptability. Muzzle Brakes, rifled chokes, and all constriction levels for slugs, buck, or bird shot. Even barrel extension choke tubes to make you're 18.5" barrel 24 to 30" are all doable. The SRM misses the boat on this one too... no choke tubes.

[@rustys.1070]

you can switch the srm out by hand. their youtube has a video on it. from what i've heard. its a pain, but very doable

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Hey thanks for watching. I wasnt 100% sure if you could.

[@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176]

Thanks. Didn't know about the Garaysar or the srm. Enjoyed your supervisors from the peanut gallery making their presence known. I used to pet my neighbors goats.

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Thanks for watching, Glad i could show you something you havent seen before.

[@Dfgbuiiyyyybb]

I’ve see the TS12 for $1156 recently.

[@jaytucc77]

Where did you see it for that price?

[@mauricecohen3830]

The TS-12 is the way to go. The Turkish gun looks like a problem waiting to happen. Also the fact that you have to remove the magazine to load except in the TS-12 makes the choice easy.

[@Kevin-qj7fp]

im waiting for future iterations of magazine fed shotguns that can also be manually loaded as well i want the best of both worlds being able to have mags loaded as well as being able to manually load it into the shotgun will prove versatility and different loading depending on the situation at hand

[@Kevin-qj7fp]

but such a shotgun would need considerable engineering and innovations on such shotguns

[@digitalsoldier-1742]

After many reviews and shooting vids, I went with the SRM 1216 with no regrets. It's fussy with lighter loads according to everyone, but 00.0 buck suits it just fine, and it loves the slugs! Once my door breach arrives it will have a real monster look...without the need. The damn thing , with its capacity is akin to armor when steppin into the breach..

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Its been about 2 months, sorry for the hiatus in responding, but how are you liking the 1216 now that you have had it for awhile?

[@digitalsoldier-1742]

It went easily to the top of my favorites. It was a little 'boxy' at first, not to mention a little top heavy with 'all slugs,' but one gets used to the feel when it's so 'fun' to shoot. It got a lot of attention at the range when I 'opened it up' to see how fast I could empty a magazine. I love it even though I hope to never have to use it as the tactical weapon it is.@@WVGunsNGoats

[@WVGunsNGoats]

@@digitalsoldier-1742 Hey thats great to hear that you're enjoying it. I bet with all slugs its pretty heavy, thats a whole lotta lead on tap.

[@digitalsoldier-1742]

It was Hickock45 demo on YT that sold me.@@WVGunsNGoats

[@charlesharper7292]

I have been in the market for a tactical shotgun for a year. Looked at a bunch of them. I had almost settled on an ATI bulldog. A pretty damn nice bullpup. Then I looked at the SRM. I had to order it. Couldn't find one in my state. It'll be here in bout a week.

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Its been about 2 months, how is the 1216 treating you? Always love to hear other experiences people are having with the same guns that I have reviewed.

[@charlesharper7292]

@@WVGunsNGoats I like it. It's my first semi auto shotgun. It is previously owned, but fired very little. Whoever bought it new had the recoil pad put on. Makes it a breeze to shoot. 400 rds. no hiccups. It's light and decently balanced. I did get some skateboard tape for extra grip when cycling the mag. Glad I got it. I don't think I'm going to accesorize it. Probably...

[@WVGunsNGoats]

@@charlesharper7292 I think the only accessories you would need besides an optic would be more Magazines.

[@gunz29]

You can load 17 2 3/4 shells in the ts 12 1 in chamber 1 on the riser and 15 in the 3 tube magazine.

[@1977TheHammer]

Get some Noble Sport 2.25" mini 00 buckshot shells... it'll fire and cycle fine in the TS12. 6 per tube (even without modifying the tube spring supports)... 20 total. ;)

[@Nate_the_Nobody]

The real question I have, is how many mini-shells fit in the 1216 and can it feed them reliably

[@WVGunsNGoats]

I dont remember if i mentioned it in the video but at one time SRM offered a 12/22 which was for minishells only. But when they became hard to get it was discontinued.

[@WVGunsNGoats]

I dont remember if i mentioned it in the video but at one time SRM offered a 12/22 which was for minishells only. But when they became hard to get it was discontinued.

[@777dragonborn]

I've run low grade 1oz birdshit regular size shells it cycled no problems no stovepiping .I haven't tried the short shells yet.

[@wolfox2007]

In general, gas auto- loaders do not pay nice with mini-shells. Even pump shotguns can have issues with them unless modified with blocks to limit shell travel. It stabilizes them on the shell elevator, a bit forward to allow them to load and lock to battery. To date, I am unaware of any such mod for any autoloader, yet. As modified, you cannot mix different lengths of cartridges.

[@1977TheHammer]

I have a TS12. While you can get 17 rounds of 2.75" in a full load-out (a proper understanding of the shotgun lifter allows you to ghost-load the lifter as well as put 1 in the chamber for the TS12)... it does fire and cycle 2.25" Nobel Sport mini buckshot shells. 6 per tube... so 20 total (though you could chamber and ghost load 3" shells up front and follow them with 18 mini's).

[@steveschmoe7290]

Good job, young man. I especially like your saying "grip" instead of "purchase". I'll bet your guns "shoot" well rather than "run" well too. Subscribed.

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Thanks Steve, usually i try to say “run” when i am talking about the gun functioning reliably over multiple shots.

[@steveschmoe7290]

@@WVGunsNGoats I get it. I'm just tired of hearing every gun guy with their new-found gun lingo. I get a good grip on my gun, not a good purchase. My gun shoots well, it doesn't run. It doesn't have an engine. It may cycle well though. They try to sound sophisticated. There's nothing sophisticated about shooting guns.

[@TroopperFoFo]

Can you swap the srm and garaysar mags?

[@WVGunsNGoats]

They are not swappable, thanks for watching.

[@ralpheastwood9243]

Great video I hear goats cool 😎 Homesteading

[@WVGunsNGoats]

I have a bunch of goats, they're cute, but can be work at times, hope to feature them in more videos, so keep watching some of my other videos!

[@jaimedavis913]

Are the barrels interchangeable with different shotguns

[@WVGunsNGoats]

No, they are not.

[@reelfishing002]

Wow $100-200 for mags , yeah I’m starting to reconsider shotgun buying. Thanks

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Thats the issue you run into when you start getting into these unique designs, Which is one reason the TS-12 is really nice, you just keep topping it off, no need to buy extra mags because its magazine is non removable. Yes a 100-200.00 magazine is expensive, and really we are spoiled when it comes to magazines being fairly cheap for a majority of the firearms on the market, like the AR-15 and glock, where they have a magazine so standardized that other companies start to use it. When you get into firearms like the SRM-1216 and the MP5/MPX and B&T you start running into mags that are 50-75.00 each, and well, as they say, you gotta pay to play.

[@1977TheHammer]

exactly. Honestly this SRM blow-back design is inferior in many ways (recoil, adjustability, etc...) but the TS12's fixed magazine also means no problems like the SRM has: 1) carrying a massive, pre-loaded magazine tube somehow. 2) worry about damaging the cylinder mount... there's more than one video of people having issues loading the cylinders.

[@shaneabbott8829]

Love my IWI TS12

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Thanks Shane, it is a ton of fun to shoot!

[@rustys.1070]

someone is making7/8x24 (1216 thread) adapters for slavo 12s

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Was there a photo of it mounted on a Tan SRM 1216?

[@rustys.1070]

@@WVGunsNGoats pretty sure. was that you?

[@WVGunsNGoats]

I had a one off adapter made for the salvo for my 1216, however, it suppressed terribly, and the bolt velocity was much higher, noticably. I didnt mention it due to this, i believe the piece that pushes the rollers out is made into the bolt so i’m not sure if it could be adjusted for longer delay. Unfortunately.

[@rustys.1070]

@@WVGunsNGoats that's what I thought was going to happen. when you suppress G3's and their kin, you have to switch out the rollers. i haven't taken my bolt apart but it might be something fun to look into. the "locking piece" would probably have to be reground too, like you said .

[@bp814]

What is a slavo 12? I couldn't find that on the internet anywhere.

[@bp814]

What does ambidextrious mean? I couldn't find it in the dictionary.

[@WVGunsNGoats]

When it comes to firearms it generally means it has controls that are friendly for left or right handed shooters. Thanks for watching!

[@bp814]

@@WVGunsNGoats nope has nothing to do with firearms. It is spelled ambidextrous. Which means it can be used by either left or right handed people. Sorry it just bugs me to see people mispronouncing it on every gun channel. It’s my duty to educate people to use that word properly…

[@ChiquitaSpeaks]

@@bp814 that’s what he said

[@bobailanjian3700]

Where is part 2?

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Sorry i was mistaken as to the video this comment was on. Check out my other video where i shoot the shotguns on the range.

[@josephtucciarone6878]

Correction: TS-12 holds 17 rounds. Watch 4:30-6:10 on how to Ghost easily load 17 rounds inside. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppTIfYCVo6yDqdk

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Yes, i mean it technically can hold 17 rounds but its not the manufacturers designed capacity. But thank you for pointing it out and watching!

[@1977TheHammer]

No, if the gun wasn't designed to run the lifter with a shell on it, either wouldn't be possible, or it would jam as a foreign obstruction. The gun is specifically designed to do that... its a fundamental safety/reliablitiy feature of elevator design. If there's a shell on the lifter, the one in the tube doesn't advance, and it still doesn't try to jam it when the lifter travels vertically to present the shell for chambering. This is most definitely a design feature in the TS12 (and many auto-loaders that use lifters)... as its required to avoid jams without it. @@WVGunsNGoats

[@abdulmohammed7702]

no volume to the video!

[@ryankosciesza5295]

Did anyone else see the animals coming out of the woods on the left side?

[@UnstoppableYaris]

Tavor TS-12 is actually a 17 round if you do it right

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Tell me more, because i wasnt aware of this.

[@biggysnaps2827]

@@WVGunsNGoats You can ghost load, like on the m4 or some other auto-loaders

[@WVGunsNGoats]

I wasnt aware of that, i might have to see if i can do that in the next video.

[@1977TheHammer]

With the bolt locked back (after firing or manually locked back) you just load all 3 tubes. - As you rotate the tube to fill the 3rd tube, it'll slam home one to the chamber for you. - Fill the 3rd tube, and press the carriage release button and you'll hear it click (and likely feel the weight of a shell move to the lifter). - Rotate back the top tube back to a loading port (forward or backwards) and top off your 2 shells. Also, you can load out 2.25" Nobel Sport 00 buckshot mini shells and get 6 per tube (total 20 rounds load out). Don't try anything shorter or you won't get proper ejection. But 2.5" turkey shot is also fine as long as you get a highspeed heavy load version (1oz or heavier is best). @@WVGunsNGoats

[@dickjohnson5025]

TS12 all the way

[@yetisuncle666]

infortunately i dont have anything i can say about multi tube shotguns. however as far as turkey goes, those guys have been putting out some very serious contenders in the gun industry. i remember years ago when i bought my tristar shotgun, i was criticized for getting a "cheap turkish" gun. wel ive still to this day had exactly zero issues with this shotgun, other than no aftermarket support. but in shotguns and pistols turkey is really giving alot of the companies a serious run for their money. look at canik, they are rapidly overtaking the pistol industry. and even some of the "cheap" turkish companies put out affordable guns, yet they are actually really high quality for what you are paying. in alot, not all cases. i recommend that if your in the market for a gun of any platform, to not discount a turkish made product. they are putting out some very serious contenders.

[@WVGunsNGoats]

You are seeing a majority of companies in The US which are long standing names such as Winchester, CZ, And others bringing in turkish produced shotguns. Heres the thing, we have multiple importers in the Us bringing over what in some cases is the same shotgun..but just under multiple names. The caniks were easy to prove a track record for Since its one gun from one company. When you have multiple companies possible making the same shotgun as there seems to be a bunch of designs shared between manufacturers, or imported by multiple companies, it gets very hard to build a log of what is good or not. Lets look at the M4 benelli clones. Theres four of them on the market, all produced by different gun companies in Turkey, all imported by multiple companies: Copolla, Standard products, black aces tactical, charles daly, SDS imports. See where things can get confusing? Thanks for watching though.

[@bp814]

What does infortunately mean? I couldn't find that in the dictionary.

[@Shadow0fd3ath24]

i just wish the TS12 wasnt so damn bulky and ugly

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Ya know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, theres a reason i tried to give tape measurements of the gun, because while its tall, its not super wide.

[@MrXG1]

1216 shotgun

[@anthonyfeldhaus3472]

I'd say maybe practice running through what you want to say and try to be quicker and concise.

[@steveschmoe7290]

Are you serious? I find this young man does an excellent job, especially compared to so many content creators that go on and on. This guy is clear and concise. He even says "get a grip on the gun" rather than the new cool "get good "purchase" on the gun".

[@twistedsphere]

watching at 1.5x helps a bit

[@WVGunsNGoats]

Hey steve thanks for the compliments. Anthony, Sorry i am not working off a script and am working out of memory, I also have ADHD which makes it hard at times to get across what i want to convey, You should see how many clips don't make it into the final video.