Tsitsipas's Backhand, Ruud's Defense, Sinner's Easy Power, Alcaraz's Serve | Coach's Mailbag

On the Coach' Mailbag, Thread of Order author Hugh Clark joins Gill Gross to answer your questions about professional technique and various tennis topics. We'll start by discussing Stefanos Tsitsipas's one-handed backhand in response to the recent video by Intuitive Tennis claiming it's "not bad." Comments include: an argument that Casper Ruud's big match struggles are technical not mental, is it true peaking Carlos Alcaraz better than peaking Jannik Sinner while average Sinner is better than average Alcaraz, should coaches and players focus on strengths instead of fixing weaknesses, why do Americans serve bigger on average, what are the changes Alcaraz is making to his serve technique, what we would do if we were tasked with coaching Novak Djokovic, and much much more.
00:00 Intro
03:56 Tsitsipas Backhand
10:40 Ruud Mental vs. Skill
18:28 Peak Alcaraz & Sinner
21:45 Sinner Easy Power
24:30 Focusing on Strengths
30:25 American Serves
33:05 Alcaraz Serve Technique
37:10 Weird ATP Forehands
40:09 Stop Double Faulting
43:38 Footwork Importance
46:41 Coaching Djokovic
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[@claytonbragg5184]

Hugh Clarke from the Thread of Order Blog! Amazing. Thanks to both for collaborating.

[@notturno3448]

Thanks, Gill...great guest, great analysis! So glad you mentioned Intuitive Tennis... huge respect for the second best tennis podcast after yours...of course :)

[@joannemoore3976]

Really enjoyed this, thank you

[@englishiguana4304]

great guest, thank you both! so many nuggets in here.

[@benjaminpedersen9548]

I got notified about a video titled "Nobody plays like Nadal... Except Ben Sheldon?", but it is private. Is this intentional?

[@user-ye6rg9sh5o]

Ben Shelton? It's joke😅

[@GillGross]

Thanks for letting me know. You shouldn’t have been notified because the intention is for it to be private… for now!

[@ptiwari2392]

Awesome episode man, two of my favorite tennis analysts/content creators. Thank you

[@idc9053]

great conversation

[@DJSnafu]

Hugh Clare real legend!! Best analysis I've seen

[@lowkey.8448]

imo the peak alcaraz vs peak sinner discussion stays irrelevant until both are in their prime .. it will be a fun discussion when alcaraz and sinner are around 25-28 yrs old

[@ahmedbebars6844]

I like Wawrinka's backhand way more than Tsitsipas's.

[@gregoryphillips3969]

Absolutely.

[@alexlackner1945]

Well you won't find many better OHBs than Stan's...

[@br1729]

I greatly appreciated the discussion of Tsitsipas’ backhand, because it has been a pet peeve of mine about how Gill discusses it. I think there is a meta-issue that you guys didn’t hit directly: can an elite player have a one-handed backhand? Tsitsipas is arguably the poster child for this possibility at the moment. You guys imply that a one-hander needs to have an “emergency” slice to handle getting rushed, etc. That suggests that there is some drawback in a one-hander’s topspin backhand that a two-hander naturally does not have. But look at how many backhand slices Rafa hits! Two-handers need an emergency slice just about as much as one-handers do. It’s no knock on the viability of a one-handed topspin backhand to say that a player who uses one should have a good backhand slice as well. As to Tsitsipas’ backhand return, I submit that the return of serve-especially of the first serve-is different from a regular groundstroke. A player can have a sound backhand (one or two handed) without having a sound backhand return and vice-versa. It seems that you guys kind of conflate the two. Finally, as to observing that elite players can have strengths and weaknesses relative to other elite players, that’s totally true. But Tsitsipas’ forehand is better than Djokovic’s, and I don’t hear Gill calling out Djokovic’s forehand as a weakness nearly so much as he calls out Tsitsipas’ backhand as a weakness. In this sense, Gill seems to show a bias in emphasis when it comes to analyzing Tsitsipas’ one-handed backhand.

[@GillGross]

Watch my Roland Garros final analysis (Djokovic vs. Tsitsipas) if you think I’ve never highlighted Tsitsipas’s firepower advantage forehand to forehand against Diokovic. That has routinely been a part of my breakdowns when it comes to that matchup. You obviously made a lot of points, I can’t respond to all of them, so I’ll leave it there. Glad you enjoyed the discussion.

[@br1729]

@@GillGross I'll definitely check out that video, thanks. My point was not about comparing Tsitsipas to Djokovic, but rather about the highlighting of a non-strength as a weakness generally--I don't think you pick on Djoker's forehand as much as you pick on Tsitsipas' backhand.

[@ngoduy3110]

@@br1729 It's because Djokovic's forehand is not a weakness. In fact, it's the most accurate and reliable forehand. In the last 3 sets of that RG final, Novak's forehand went toe-to-toe with Tsitsipas and won the majority of points. On the other hand, Tsitsipass' backhand is always the weakness that other players exploit, especially on hard court.

[@br1729]

@@ngoduy3110 I guess you didn't read Gill's reply talking about "Tsitsipas’s firepower advantage forehand to forehand against Diokovic."

[@orchidpanda2253]

I agree with all your points. I don't think this is just Gill Gross, though. Somehow this obsession with Tsitsipas' backhand caught fire in the tennis community and has been running wild like brush fire. It doesn't get the same treatment as say Medvedev's unorthodox forehand and backhand techniques - which obviously work for the most part, but perhaps limits him against the top 3 players.

[@MA-rq6ie]

Analytics is very tricky during a match but very good on a larger %. If you try to change things during a match it can help but it can also ruin your game. On the other hand, if your long term % on for example BH cross courts is low it will help you to either change the dynamics of the point or to work on it. Anyway, thanks for anwsering a tough question on coaching, keep up the good work.

[@sebucwerd]

Gil is right about Ruud's forehand. Earlier in his career he went big with it and had tons of success. Nobody was hitting better high forehands than Ruud circa 2020

[@mireafelder8194]

I'll never get how tennis experts like Gill don't get it that Carlos is still only a 20 years old kid ffs and is already so much more accomplished than Sinner, who is already 2 years older. If these experts like these facts or not. 2 GS, 5 Masters titles, youngest World No.1 in tennis history ever vs 1 GS , 2 Masters titles says it all really.

[@javimotocross]

Hi, Gil, love your content, amazed on how your mind is able to analyze tennis. I know your channel is mainly ATP related, but as the tennis fan that you are, I assume you may take interest in all forms of tennis. As a tennis parent I’m interested in youth tennis as well for which I have taken some interest into the ITF circuit at times. As I understand it they recently changed the old categories of J5 (lowest level) to J1 (highest level) as it was confusing to the now J30 (old J5) to J300 (old J1) to signify the amount of points the player would earn if in case he/she went to win the final. As you may know, in the US, one of the highest amateur tournament is the national tournament in Kalamazoo, MI that earns you a wild card into the US open, with the Orange Bowl being another important one. Well, ITFs-wise speaking the J300 in College Park is a pretty good tournament to participate for points and experience. Also, it is quite difficult to enter, which is where my concern and question comes from. As I understand it, they take into account ranking, age and priority. So, I was recently following a player from my country Puerto Rico who participated in last years (Aug 2023) College Park J300 and she beat a fellow player on the first round. So, I go and check the other player ranking, records, etc. and to my surprise she did not have any ranking, none, no numbers, nothing! So I thought “Huh, that’s odd” I scroll down and I see her record and her winning percentage is 0%. So, I go to her ITF tournament history and her only tournaments have been three J300 at College Park for the years 2021/2022/2023. How can this be? Don’t you have to experience J30, J60, J100, J200s first...earn points and rankings to earn this right? How can your first ever ITF at 14 years old be a J300? By the way, this were not qualifying spots, this were all main draws. Which is a slap in the face to any other player, specially international that her parents have spent their hard earn money to come from another country to play in the qualifying draws and lose with probably more ranking points than her? How much is the cost for an aspiring amateur player for the year? And finally my main main main question is……is the system rigged?

[@aimanbhargava8083]

Will you be doing a Roland Garros Power ranking? If so, when will it be out (unless I have missed it already). Always look forward to those!

[@SJ-di5zu]

Good point, feel like after Monte Carlo/Barcelona a clay ranking would be really interesting. Ranking Djokovic, Alcaraz, and Sinner would be tough since Sinner is the only one in-form by the former two have better clay results. Tsitsipas probably has to slide in at #4 after winning MC. At #5, I think Ruud has done enough to take it, or rather none of the other players have done enough to justify putting them over him. Rune at 6, and after that it starts to get murky. I think Medvedev should be 7 off of the Rome run last year though

[@benjaminpedersen9548]

@@SJ-di5zu Zverev?

[@SJ-di5zu]

@@benjaminpedersen9548Totally forgot about him. Think he could slot in that 6 or 7 spot over Rune/Medvedev. He’s been in poor form lately imo but he almost always does well at Madrid-Rome-RG, so he should be expected to dial up his level this year.

[@GillGross]

I'll be doing the first edition on Monday Match Analysis this week

[@saxmanphd]

I would love a virtual program/video game where you can select parameters like net clearance, rpm, target size, speed, and get a percentage estimate

[@paulcoffield2102]

Man compared Murray to Ruud in his comment. Murray faced off against one of the big 3 in 26 out of his 35 big finals (Slams, MS, YEC and OG) throughout his career and won 10 of them. This was the big 3 in their peak/prime years, not a 35+ year old Nadal and Djokovic. The only big final he lost against someone that wasn't a member of the big 3 was against Cilic in 2016 after he'd just won Wimbledon and the OG in Rio. Murray was physically and mentally far superior to Ruud. Murray's issue against the big 3 wasn't because he was mentally weak, because his record against the rest of the tour was excellent. The other 3 were just more talented players.

[@danmalic6688]

BRAVO!

[@aviberezovskiy7633]

I think we should have some separation on the tsitsipas backhand pre injury and post injury (elbow)

[@orchidpanda2253]

Thanks for this video. I appreciated the balanced discussion about Tsitsipas' backhand, but it seems really silly to me that there's been so much obsession with it by many, stoked by randos and Tsitsipas haters who probably don't even understand the mechanics of what constitutes a good backhand and are just blindly repeating something they heard. To add context, for the vast majority of tennis players - pro or amateur - the backhand wing is the weaker side. Everyone on the tennis tour picks on the opponent's backhand, whether the opponent is Djokovic or Berrettini. It's not unique to Tsitsipas. Also, Stef seems to have made improvements on his bh, including using the block return a lot more and to greater effect. He still hits down the line winners and cross court passing shots with his backhand on all surfaces. Also, isn't it way too early to talk about peak Sinner v. peak Alcaraz - have they even reached their peaks yet?

[@romainmj7245]

Technique is key in tennis ! success is determine mainly by your technique! if you have a weak shot its only because of your technique nothing to do with mental! that video was insane !

[@robertingersoll3039]

Alcaraz is able to rush Tsitsipas on the backhand side on any surface, especially RG 2023 - where Alcaraz made Tsitsipas look like a club level player. That is how the narrative of Stef's weak backhand took momentum. Even before that there was some talk of Stef's backhand being a weak aspect of his game, but after RG 2023, that narrative just solidified. It won't be very surprising if Alcaraz is able to expose Stef again, and this narrative comes back.

[@maimou]

Alcaraz isn't a great matchup for Stef but some of their matches have been competitive and close. Regarding RG 2023 wasn't Tsitsipas going through injuries last year? I'm sure that had an effect on his overall level and results last year.

[@mireafelder8194]

I'll never get how tennis experts like Gill don't get it that Carlos is still only a 20 years old kid ffs and is already so much more accomplished than Sinner, who is already 2 years older than Alcaraz. If these experts like these facts or not. 2 GS, 5 Masters titles, youngest World No.1 in tennis history ever vs 1 GS , 2 Masters titles says it all really.

[@mireafelder8194]

Interesting, I got 3 likes in my comment notifications but they don't show here. Why would that be?

[@robertingersoll3039]

@@maimou not taking sides here, but Stef got to RG 23 quarterfinals. So using the injury excuse does not hold water. Going further back to USO21, Alcaraz showed up Stef there too.

[@maimou]

@@robertingersoll3039 Injuries absolutely hold water and it's known that he was going through injuries/difficulties last year. The USO'21 match imo was Stef's to lose and it was still very competitive even though he ended up losing in the 5th set tb. Most of their matches have been competitive but Alcaraz is still not the best matchup for him.

[@rbarreira2]

For the last question: getting rid of the Djokosmashes might help?

[@danmalic6688]

DJOKOVIC IS WHO HE IS..........let it go... last time i looked he is still numero UNO

[@rubensevillaromero5363]

Hi Gill, just finished watching Fritz v Draper. And I couldn´t hel but wonder why Fritz is so bad in clay when he has one of the highest RPM forehands in the circuit, I get that his movement is a huge liability, but isn´t that forehand also a great weapon to balance a bit and be a top 20 in clay season?. Thank you as always.

[@4zafinc]

Fritz diversified his game in last 2 years. He'll be able to go on constructing points in interesting ways on clay in future. Might compensate his lack of movement if he's dictating points and successfully finishing them off

[@jjgreek1]

I think Tsitsipa's back hand is improving...I see more down the line shots ...

[@PedriM-ed8gn]

The wildcard system does seem unfair to players from smaller tennis nations, as it often favors players from the host country. This can limit opportunities for talented players from less prominent tennis nations to compete in prestigious events like Grand Slams and Masters tournaments.

[@jcoltea]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is “transition game”? Gil mentioned Tsitsipas has the best transition game but I’m not very familiar with what that refers to

[@juliusziemes9679]

It is when you get a short ball that you can attack and come forward to the net. The „coming forward to the net to volley“ is called transition as like transition from the back of the court to the net As for Tsitsipas he ist one of the best in that, because he 1) recognizes short balls that he can attack incredibly well 2) can attack them with his elite forehand 3) has perfect volleys 4) has one of the best footwork I have seen, which is the most important point for coming forward

[@notturno3448]

@@juliusziemes9679 Spot on!

[@alexlackner1945]

Wouldn't the term "transition game" also apply to moving from defense to offense? For example from defending one shot and then pounding a winner from the half court on the next.

[@JiraiyaSama86]

Well, if you're objectively thinking that your forehand is bad or such, it occurs to me that you shouldn't be fixated on recognizing the problem, rather fixing the problem. A lot of people can get wrapped up in how things are so bad that they're not really thinking the situation through, and figuring out how to deal with it, or problem solving. Assess if it's really a problem first. If so, then start to think of possible solutions.

[@niglschrvr]

You gotta get Nik from intuitive Tennis on here

[@rick13953]

American kids throwing baseballs developing their serve is like European kids learning footwork naturally by playing football.

[@thecarter8700]

Idk how true that is in this era for young Americans anymore They’re not really playing baseball as much as in the past … Nothing like euros play soccer/football

[@4zafinc]

​@@thecarter8700dunno about general populace, but the athletes themselves have definitely had a go at it at some point. Ben Shelton's serve motion definitely remind me a bit of football throw in US

[@user-ks7bf2ih8w]

Casper is a great player 👏.. He is always in the top tier and very consistent. There are a lot of players who never make finals. All he keeps saying is how fabulous Carlos is. He is a great player but lately has lost matches as well as others.

[@AA-le9ls]

Didn't Federer expose Ruud's weaknesses clearly when the two players met in the French open a couple of years ago?

[@mireafelder8194]

This was back in 2019, when Ruud was still only 21 years old ffs.

[@AA-le9ls]

​@@mireafelder819421 seems quite old considering that Alcaraz, Nadal and Sampras won a grand slam tournament at 19, Borg and Becker at 18, Wilander and Chang at 17.

[@mireafelder8194]

@@AA-le9ls Alcaraz as a 20 years old kid already won 2 GS, 5 Masters titles, became the youngest World No.1 in tennis history ever and tennis experts like Gill etc still criticize him. In my opinion tennis got down the drain bc of the big 3 and all this talk who's the biggest ever. Ruud's just doing fine, he's a great tennis player who already reached 3 GS finals.

[@hertor8803]

In ten years time the coach will be sitting next to the player at the changeover just like the Davis Cup and there will probably be chairs behind for the data analyst and physio too. Trust me.

[@alexlackner1945]

Not sure i like these changes, what do you think?

[@jakedo5969]

First view!

[@tomk5238]

alcraz should go full roddick tbh. its already partially there.

[@DJSnafu]

Hard to find flaws on Medvedev?? What about his shit forehand and terrible cross court BH? This is what i meant the other day on analysis..

[@paulrubinsteinvideo]

Medvedev has a terrible crosscourt backhand?! What have you been smoking? Easily in the top 3 on that category. And his forehand is incredibly precise and reliable - and now with added pace.

[@MusicMendicant]

Big Factual errors in your video. Tsitsipas won the 2019 Nitto ATP Finals, not the 2018 one. In 2018, Stef won the ATP Next Gen Finals. Two Big omissions. Tsitsipas made the Australian Open Final in 2023 & had right shoulder injury which affected his backhand as well. 6 of Stef's 11 titles so far are on hardcourt.

[@goldwolf0606]

Why you keep avoiding my tough questions Gillybob?!? My tough questions and suggestions to improve your show helped to increase your show viewership and interaction man… and when you gonna play me? Don’t Runawayovic like a sheep from the gold wolf man 😂😂😂

[@danmalic6688]

YOU ARE IRRELEVANT now that Fed has retired, Rafa is about to and Novak will soon be

[@kennyofatoboiyo7447]

Again this nonsense about fast surfaces suiting Sinner more and yet Alcaraz has more slams on fast surfaces including Wimbledon and the US Open at a younger age 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@F-F01]

It’s not about fast surfaces but fast hard courts

[@themantislords5797]

Yes Wimbledon is faster but the AO is faster then the USO

[@Beth0126]

Ur missing the point, they mean when they play each other that fast suits Sinner more. Alcaraz i think will be fantastic on fast courts going forward but they are talking about when the two of them meet up, Sinner will have that edge, similar to how alcaraz will have an edge on slow and medium high bouncing courts VS sinner. And also, us open, sinner had a match point, and Wimbledon 22 sinner beat Alcaraz. The same two slams Alcaraz won both sinner and Alcaraz are nearly equal when they play each other on them. I think anyone can see sinner has an edge VS Alcaraz on fast surfaces so its not really nonsense at all.

[@kennyofatoboiyo7447]

@@Beth0126 Sinner lost in the 2023 Wimbledon semi final to Djokovic who Alcaraz then beat in the final?? Alcaraz also beat Sinner in the Quarterfinal of the US open 2022 before going on to win the whole thing. Alcaraz also won Miami at the age of 19 much younger than Sinner was when he just won his first Miami title. And Miami is also a fast surface and Alcaraz didn't even get to play at the Australian Open 2023 as he was injured. This just seems like a recency bias when really all that happened is Alcarazs level dropped from that of 2022-mid 2023. Alcaraz has one of the best forehands in the game which obviously would benefit him as well on faster surfaces. Grass is the fastest surface and to date Alcaraz has won more grass titles than Sinner while also being 2 years younger. Sorry just doesn't add up.

[@kennyofatoboiyo7447]

@@Beth0126 and dude that wasn't the point. The question was is Alcaraz's peak better than Sinners peak but Sinners average is better than Alcaraz's average? Then the guy went on to talk about the fast surface advantage going to Sinner, which to me is just to do with recent form and not the overall picture. And at no point we're they talking about directly playing each other on that surface they were just saying in general.

[@mariepelletier3020]

Women please, not girls, these are professionals players not junior players.