Dragon Ball Retcons Are Better Than You Think

[@jg5004]

If Goku can refuse to be transported he should be able to refuse to be changed into a kid.

[@JamaalDaGreatest]

Absolutely this. I love Daima so far but you're absolutely right. Goku refusing to be transported isn't the first time we've seen Shenron unable to affect someone stronger than him against their will either. I believe (unless it was filler) that he couldn't transport the Saiyans into the sun because they were too strong although that then got retconned in Broly.

[@notfunnydidntlaugh5270]

@@JamaalDaGreatest Broly getting teleported back to his home planet can easily be justified by him just agreeing to it. There was literally a Kamehameha coming straight at him.

[@toxicrepeter8607]

In GT it makes sense since start of GT Goku was weaker than Baby who is in turn weaker than Ultimate Shenron.

[@LilHana]

@@toxicrepeter8607hm? it was the pilaf gang who wished him to be a kid. theres no shot goku is weaker than them, and therefore should’ve been able to refuse turning into a kid

[@plushytv5295]

@@LilHanathe effect of the Dragon Balls is not equal to their user, it's equal to their creator. The Pilaf Gang making the wish would not affect Goku's ability to resist/refuse it but rather the power of the creator of the BSDBs would. That being said, they were said to have been created by the nameless Namekian before splitting, so they still shouldn't have affected Goku since he far outpowers a theoretical Fused Kami before any training, though you can argue that the restriction of the Black Star Balls (Return them in 1 year or the planet explodes) makes up for this.

[@seventoast]

17:30 Mark's wrong on this one. Radio waves *are a form* of electromagnetic waves. You can argue Bulma didn't know what _kind_ of electromagnetic radiation the dragon balls emitted and the retcon was her learning that they were radio waves specifically, but not that she said it was one type of radiation then later changed it

[@Weeniewarrior15]

Nahhhh it’s definitely a reach. Imagine if someone said they have superhuman vision and went throughout the entire story with that notion but a plot needed them to see through walls or something and they revealed they have infrared vision that’s a retcon. You didn’t specify what type of vision but it’s still in the same field.

[@justindeliwe8065]

Bruh just stop. We know you DB fans like defending your show just because you like Goku just stop yapping. Radio waves and Electromagnetic waves are different in wavelength (the distance between one wave crest to the next). A wave crest is just the highest point on each wave. You guys think its the same just because you want there to be no retcons like a foolish DB fan

[@goldengamerhd4469]

@@Weeniewarrior15no this is completely wrong superhuman vision isn’t infrared vision but radio waves are electromagnetic waves

[@Your7T7]

I was going to point this out. I honestly have no idea how Mark fucked that up... Bulma claimed the waves were electromagnetic, and then went on to state the exact type of electromagnetic wave they emit. I mean, come on.

[@justindeliwe8065]

@@seventoast But radio waves and electromagnetic waves are different. The distance between two wave crests are different.

[@dontsleep5042]

The nimbus is like jordans you’re wearing Jordan’s but you’re not wearing micheal Jordan

[@15mcollins]

@@dontsleep5042 aye….. yeah lowkey. And Michael Jordan could give you another pair of Jordan’s 😮

[@SavantPete]

The Buu magic de fusing potara fusions was canonically okay. Idk why they double retcon it

[@Jay-bl8ne]

You see, that was the accepted fan explanation for decades until the retcon in DBS, In fact even some games said MAYBE something about Buu's weird biology defused Vegito. Toei undoubtedly just didn't know about it and with how sloppy the writing was for the majority of DBS, we get the retcon.

[@benji5320]

The super anime was a mess due to each episode essentially being written by different writers. The manga was behind the anime, so I think they just took the same explanation so it could focus on different divergences from the anime.

[@arpadszabo661]

Because they didn’t think it through. Vegito defeating zamasu would’ve been a thousand times better than Trunks suddenly being able to make a spirit bomb and absorbing it into his sword and then having Zeno destroy the whole universe. Then they could’ve defused with the dragon balls. The only good thing about it i guess is that the potara is no longer superior than the dance fusion because of its time limit.

[@Jay-bl8ne]

@@arpadszabo661 Potara being stronger but needing the sacrifice of two characters was its entire charm. It has literally no reason to exist now (Other than Zamasu) because the Fusion dance came first. Part of why Vegito was cool was because he could never appear again because the circumstances of his defusion were a mystery. Now he's just Gogeta light with less flashy abilities, he only has Spirit Sword and Final Kamehameha compared to the 50 billion moves Toriyama gave Gogeta.

[@Mgidynasty]

They never told us why they refused simply that something about Buu caused them defuse, no?

[@reaper_is_unavailable]

Some retcons that Mark says here that I think are just reveals (will edit to add more since I'm on mobile and not spending the time to remember them all at the end of the vid) 1. The tail being a weakness: Although we learnt a lot about the tail, we never see anyone before Chi-Chi hold onto it so that being a possibility was never there so we can't say that we knew that he tail would or wouldn't be fine regardless prior to chichi grabbing it. 2. The Nyoibo's true purpose. This is one of those "meta-retcons" where you know it is a retcon cuz you know the writers did not think about a Kami or how to get there until the arc happened, so now we need to make a way for it to happen. However, if you didn't know this, it could go either way, since all Goku, and thus we the readers, knew that it came from Gohan who got it from Roshi. It's true origin could be seen as never being confirmed. 3. The Piccolo egg situation, while not a retcon, creates another retcon in terms of the link between Piccolo and Kami. If following the manga where Piccolo Jr calls himself the reincarnation of Piccolo Daimao then both he and Kami would still be linked, but if they are different people then Kami should be dead. So, that is weird to say the least. 4. The Goku knowing about Kami's lie with the dragon balls might be a retcon but I always felt as if it was just Goku growing smarter and still appeasing Kami for the sake of the fight. Still could be a retcon though.

[@reaper_is_unavailable]

Also as Sage talks about Nimbus and learning to fly... Piccolo straight up lied to Pan about learning to fly before Ki-blasts in the DBS Super Hero Arc/Movie. No one in DB learned flying before ki attacks. In fact, flying was a such a rarity that the main character only showed it at the end of the final battle against Piccolo Jr.

[@reaper_is_unavailable]

Funny enough, even the restrictions on the Time Chamber gets retconned/ignored because of Vegeta.

[@kybalerton2608]

For the Kami lying part. I reread all the manga recently and i swear i remember Kami saying that he didnt help against King Piccolo because if he did kill him, he'd die too and a god cant kill himself. I was so confused about why he was saying what he did about jr because the whole time i was wondering didnt you tell goku this like 3 years ago? Did you think hed forget?

[@MotherLover1984]

He and Kami are still linked, wth are you talking about?

[@Asin24]

I took the ultra divine water what it did was letting Goku tap into his Oozaru power without transforming. I do think it should of involved more to it like a special training element to it to somewhat master and connect with that side of himself, but to me that's how I made sense of it with his finishing blow showing his Oozaru form hinting where that extra strength came from.

[@Weeniewarrior15]

That’s the definition of head cannon

[@Asin24]

@@Weeniewarrior15 It could be, though unless there is something just explaining it out what it is and what it not (which to be fair maybe there is somewhere) it's not invalid to think that, just like if your thinking of a reason anything happens in a series that isn't blatently told to you is. My view on what it did mostly just comes from the final attack. Why exactly would it show Oozaru in a cross over shot when Goku is throwing his last ditch punch? It seems almost pointless unless there was some reason the author felt it made sense to include it.

[@DarkboyDranzer]

​@@Weeniewarrior15yeah but it's also building more so on what it would actually be doing since Goku in DB was stronger as a great ape anyway and his final blow on king piccolo drew from that power. It's head cannon but with a decent explanation to why it works

[@jupiteralt]

So on the Cell heaing thing. People forget to bring up that he also has Friezas and King colds DNA. So combine the durability of their race, Piccolos healing, and the fact that hes a bio created creature with unknown anatomy. Him healing from anything but being atomized makes sense to me.

[@mjm3091]

Not to mention all Androids were buffed up. This could have been just Piccolo's ability but elevated to the next level.

[@Grey_OSN]

Frieza was capable of surviving a whole planet exploding whilst cut in half and had half his face blown away, now combine that with Piccolos cells and it’s not unreasonable to argue that he could regenerate from a nucleus.

[@legendaryyetunknown6973]

26:39 I think Goku is being smart, its showing his growth as he used to fall for tricks in his childhood like with oolong.

[@Fw.kyototrewcrew]

Watching u while writing manga jus hits on another level, real spill

[@hatjousuke]

I unironically love the retcon that Shenron needs your permission to transport you because it makes the end of Broly vs Gogeta downright hilarious.

[@elcalabozodelandroide2]

Honestly Goku was just strong enough to make shenlong ask because he couldn't do it against someome stronger than the new grand patriarch.

[@sly_cat]

⁠​⁠@@elcalabozodelandroide2could also be, if you wanna get semantic about it, Broly subconsciously wanted to go back home and Shenron took it as good enough.

[@Dende_Sensei]

26:50 goku already knew Kami was lying he was acting like he was going along with the plan

[@15mcollins]

Yeah Kami was shown as actively deceiving everyone during those few episodes, so it was just a reveal just like Goku realizing that the random white guy beating up Yamcha was actually Kami in the first place

[@arpadszabo661]

Sage dying on he hill that Jiren was a good and interesting character, after he meditated through 80% of the tournament of power silently and had 1 dialogue with Goku about seeking something beyond strength and 1 about dunking on Toppo for no reason and other than that just flexing on others, is hilarious. Cool fights, sure. Good character, absolutely not. Edit because i’m not about to reply to everyone screeching about how “Jiren didn’t need to be interesting” (which is funny, because ya’ll don’t even go against what i said, but against what sage said, but saying it to me for whatever reason) Well, good for you guys that you cope yourself into thinking that he was boring on purpose, but they obviously tried pretty hard by the end to make people at least feel bad for him with his Uchiha backstory, which failed miserably. Just like every other antagonist, they wanted him to be cool, just didn’t realize that they made him so stoic that he barely even talks and when he talks we don’t care about what he says, and its boring as hell. Thank god that somehow Toriyama didn’t write “boring on purpose” characters ever before or since.

[@Weeniewarrior15]

Good is subjective to what is needed for the plot. A character like Jiren is good for the story to need an antagonist and a character who has a different resolve than Goku. While you can say and I would probably agree that Jiren isn’t a well written character. He was a good character for what the plot needed

[@arpadszabo661]

@@Weeniewarrior15 Still disagree. With that logic they could’ve made ribrianne as strong as Jiren and then she’s the one who is “needed” for the plot. Sure, Goku just going to the ToP and negdiffing everyone would’ve been lame, but that’s not really an excuse to make the main antagonist of the arc the least interesting character as well. Especially when we had Toppo, who by just being a god of destruction candidate, was like 10 times more interesting than Uchiha Jiren with his backstory and 0 personality until the last 3-4 episodes.

[@AnnaLajtos]

@@arpadszabo661 This. I’m still more interested in what Dr. Rota’s power was than anything related to Jiren. The fact that he immediately became irrelevant as a character and most likely won’t ever be part of the canon story again, even though he was the main antag of a whole arc says a lot about how interesting he is. Literally just a wall for Goku to overcome inside an arc and that’s it. As soon as he’s not the strongest, he no longer has a reason to exist inside the franchise.

[@Weeniewarrior15]

@@arpadszabo661 I mean Jiren as a character is unironically the antithesis of what DBZ villains are very powerful and strong characters with little to no meaningful backstory. It’s not a dig on the story because as a whole it’s entertaining and a good story but its main weakness is how poorly rounded the villains are because if you just said x character wants to destroy/enslave the world just to do it that is literally most of the villains in db, dbz, super, GT, and the movies. The only exception i can think of off the top of my head is Super Broley & Jiren. They’re are more more rounded characters but they fall behind the big bad behind every arc like androids 16 & 17 vs Cell

[@Luissv72]

I'd say it's more embarassingly delusional than hilarious, but yeah. Jiren is a dogshit character (his design sucks too, it's painfully bland).

[@5h0ckblock]

Piccolo Jr HAS to be a clone. Otherwise Kami is just dead

[@15mcollins]

He’s not, it’s a retcon with how he connected his memories and Kami connection with his son. But in OG dragonball we watched him be born, be a little homeless kid, and grow up into teenager and fight Goku

[@5h0ckblock]

@15mcollins I know, that's what I'm saying. He's retconed into being King Piccolo. It makes zero sense for Kami to die when the son of his other half dies.

[@15mcollins]

@@5h0ckblock yeah you’re right it’s weird. That Namekian fusion where he just absorbs the others is weird too. And Dende making a new dragon etc… everything involving them folks is made up😂😂

[@MotherLover1984]

He is not a clone; he is a reincarnation, meaning he is a different person who contains the essence of his father. In a sense, he at the same time is an isn't Piccolo Daimao

[@MotherLover1984]

​@@5h0ckblock How a concept that has not changed since its introduction is a retcon? lol.

[@MarioSonicBee]

For retcon 30 I’m on the side that Goku knew all along that killing Piccolo would kill Kami. I feel like that’s more of a smart Goku moment than a retcon.

[@just_an_internet_explorer8038]

That doesn’t explain why Goku agreed with Krillin and tried to take out Piccolo with a kamehameha prior to the end of the arc tho

[@MotherLover1984]

​@@just_an_internet_explorer8038 Because he thought he would be able to revive Kami

[@just_an_internet_explorer8038]

@@MotherLover1984 yeah, that’s why I think it’s a retcon. Goku didn’t learn anything new between this event, and when Kami trying to end Piccolo while he was down that’d lead him to change his stance on ending Piccolo.

[@Praneeth_R26]

20:41 Pilaf Knowing how to block radio waves of DB is not a retcon. They literally had a dragon radar to find them. So him knowing how to Block it off makes sense. Also scientific they just need aluminium or copper box to do that.

[@JakeTylenol]

Every time you call Daima “Delilah” I think of Coach Carter and I just imagine him motivating Goten and Trunks to train with 20 million pushups and good grades

[@Asin24]

To be fair, if the dragonballs could be used to wish to teleport someone, you could just have it so you wish for someone to be teleported in the middle of the sun, making the whole "you can't wish to kill someone" pointless since you could just teleport them to instant death anyways.

[@DarkboyDranzer]

But they can also refuse the wish to teleport so in the end you could but I'm assuming they'd get some info on where they're going and say nah I'm good

[@AjaxBlack]

Ultra divine water was there. To show how goku will throw away his values for revenge, he ignored his master, and he wanted easy power to destroy the one eho killed his friend

[@Alienldr]

38:49 #60) i like to think that piccolo could regenerate this way if he was more durable. But he'd die from the injuries before he can regenerate, like King Piccolo, or when he survived Cell blowing away his torso, but barely (cell would have gotten up, but piccolo was out, despite regenerating the hole). However, Cell has cells from Frieza, who can be cut in half and then blown up by a ki blast and then a planetary explosion and still survive. And in resurrection of F, he was brought back as tiny pieces and still lived. That durability on top of Piccolo's regeneration is what made Cell's regeneration OP. Its not just a different regeneration altogether with no explanation. At least, that's my headcanon. We already agree he stacks the saiyan cells on top of the regeneration to give himself a zenkai boost from it. That wouldn't be the only 2 mixing together.

[@neo84401]

So did he forget about the 1 minute in the chamber = hours?

[@CheemSawMan]

Not a retcon but Gohan's character assassination by the fans needs to stop. Gohan doesn't HATE fighting he always hated KILLING. Gohan became a super hero BECAUSE he LIKES fighting while preserving human life. Fighting to Gohan was SCARY because when he was 5 he was forced into nonstop death matches with war mongering alien monsters. Gohan treats fighting like an enjoyable sport but even then he doesnt care about being the best like Goku does although he certainly has the potential to clean house but that's just not his life goal.

[@dominiquerobinson8888]

People will tell you point blank that him being a superhero isn’t fighting, it’s saving people, 😂. Not only does he fight for fun, he literally skips school to do it. Not to mention he does this knowing that it’s a student in his class who’s job is to do it

[@dynasty12622]

Gohan opened his mouth give him another form

[@Grey_OSN]

@@dynasty12622where’s your uncle (Vegeta) at? Cause i wanna talk to the man of the house

[@JoshucaVA]

My issue with this video is that a lot of these "retcons" rely entirely on audience assumptions I feel like something can only be a retcon if we're GUIDED to believe something before changing it later For example, the first scene with the tail. The tail not being a weakness was never said nor implied at any point prior. That idea could have only come from the audience making assumptions with no guidance from the source material Like if someone's theory is that the One Piece is a book, then it turns out to be a cake, that's not a retcon, it was a reveal and that theorist was just wrong. However if they're like "The One Piece is a book!" Then we find the book and it turns out the One Piece is actually a sticker inside the book, that is a retcon But then shouldn't we differentiate between retcons & red herrings? Cause red herrings are intentionally deceptive guides for the audience. But like yeah haha, saying Goku's tail being his weakness is a retcon is like saying Goku walking on a log is a retcon

[@castform7]

That was my thing with the video too. Mark goes out of his way to make the distinction between reveal and retcon only to mark reveals as retcons. It feels like a lot of these are just simple reveals that are only retcons because they just assumed the opposite with no backing other than "they haven't shown otherwise". Bulma somehow knowing all about the Dragon Balls after herself saying she doesn't know much except it grants a wish is a retcon because it was stated *by her* that she doesn't know this information she now suddenly knows with no way of her being able to learn this. The Pilaf gang making a box that blocks a Dragon Ball from being tracked is just....something they did that does not go against anything established especially since it was established that they at least work on some type of wave tracking. All they would need to do is make something that blocks the waves. The rules for retcon here feel way too loosey goosey.

[@Echo-nn8dt]

Funny enough Bulma actually DID know that the dragon balls would turn into stone all along. Idk what Mark was doing here lol.

[@MotherLover1984]

The Pilaf building something to block the waves emitted by the DBs is also weird lol. Why would that be a retcon? Plus Raditz going to the afterlife was supposed to show that Piccolo is changing and is not a demon anymore, I'm pretty sure Kami himself explains it lol Before someone says it was before his redemption arc, keep in mind Piccolo Jr. was already portrayed as less evil than his father/previous incarnation in his introduction in the original DB

[@Echo-nn8dt]

@@MotherLover1984can't dissect a story and pick a part every new piece of information and just call it a retcon. Even knowing Toriyama's writing style he clearly went in each arc with somewhat of a plan on where to take it. I think that's why DB into Z flowed so well and clear explanations for major concepts were being established as the story went on. There are definitely retcons in DB, just not every development that builds on established lore without changing it but adding to it. You can't convince me Goku possibly not being from Earth (Saiyan in name or not) was a retcon. Mark talkin bout Vegeta claiming to be the strongest in the Universe makes Frieza a retcon (it's Vegeta he's a shit talker he's gonna big up himself). You don't set up an ally oop like the Saiyan Arc into the Namek arc by retconning.

[@marche800]

​@Echo-nn8dt He's the thing. Goku being an alien was joked about in eary dragon ball, but he wasn't given any origin at the time and then much much later was given that context. Even if that was always the plan (which I sincerely doubt, Toriyama is a mangaka who makes stuff up as he goes) that would still fall under the definition of retroactive continuity because this context was given long after the status quo for the character was established.

[@TKOTDtvMusic]

​@@MotherLover1984a demon is still a demon regardless of if they're nicer than other demons lol. Debora wouldn't no longer be considered a demon king just because he had a redemption arc. It's a retcon cuz Demon King Piccolo wasn't ever supposed to be a Namekian. He was just a demon initially until Toriyama changed it.

[@MotherLover1984]

@@TKOTDtvMusic Piccolo was from the demon clan, or a Masoku, which is why the people he killed could not move on to the afterlife. To be a Masoku, one must be pure evil to possess certain properties that their race does not normally have; that is why Piccolo Jr who gradually abandoned his evil ways, was not a Masoku. This is not a retcon Additionally, according to the original Dragon Ball's Chinese-inspired mystical logic, Goku could also be considered a demon.

[@Chillbro740]

14:29 he was simply to peak

[@Itsnajee]

23:04 Piccolo Jr. is Piccolo’s son but also his direct reincarnation which actually can be used to explain why Kami didn’t die when Piccolo died but DID die later in the story Piccolo Jr. was killed by Nappa. So while they’re technically not the same person, he’s essentially his father’s Uub 💀

[@Alienldr]

26:40 i would think its believable if A) Goku figured out that the dragon balls wouldn't work if Kami died during the fight. But he just acted as if he knew all along. Or B) Goku knew all along. But then he agreed to reviving Kami and was acting on it. A small change can make it work, but its simply contradictory as is.

[@mattmcclure8272]

Watched marks vid literally a couple days ago and thought “I would love to see sages thoughts on this bro”

[@SuperSireBoyYT]

31:59 i feel like its possible frieza didnt start listening to them until they went on an unsanctioned mission

[@ic3man213]

So im confused....a retcon is something that changes the meaning of 1 thing 2 another like bulma saying she dont much about the dragon balls then basically explaining everything about them later correct? So how is the power pole a retcon? We was told it was a magical staff that can extend & was passed on 2 goku by his grandpa which is true. Then we learn it was used 2 connect korin's tower 2 the lookout but the doesnt change the fact that it was indeed given 2 goku by his grandpa...it doesnt change anything so how is it a retcon?

[@majinsweet]

What retcon means can be traced from the term itself. Its a retroactive change to the continuity. So you are correct, your power pole example is not a retcon, it is a revelation. The confusion that come up a lot is that people try to insist that if the author didn't explicitly plan something out, that it is a retcon, and that's simply not correct. It's why Goku being revealed to being an alien is not a retcon, because it doesn't require any sort of change to the past continuity. It is a revelation, and the moment in time that Akira Toriyama decided that is irrelevant. It would only be a retcon if for example, in Dragon Ball it was factually shown that Goku was a human, and then later on those scenes were deemed non-canon going forward to make the new Saiyan plot line work. An example of something like this can be seen in the Metal Gear Solid franchise. Metal Gear Solid 1 talks about how Big Boss told Snake that he was his father in the events of Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. That simply did not happen in that game, the canon of that event was changed retroactively to make the new story possible.

[@Jay-bl8ne]

Not necessarily, a retcon is retroactive continuity. It's when pre established concepts or characters are given connection or backstory to things they previously didn't even if said thing technically was possible the entire time. It's not really possible to tell if something is a retcon unless it's done sloppily, like when Obi Wan called Vader "Darth" in A New Hope. Technically he was correct, but no one calls sith by "Darth" and the entire Darth naming system wasn't introduced until later. Obviously GL didn't think of that yet, and Darth Vader was actually just his name, he was NOT Anakin Skywalker in that first movie, but that was later Retconned. This is why etymology is important. It's the same thing with people misunderstanding what Phobia means.

[@ic3man213]

@@majinsweet ok cool me & you on the same page. A lot of these just weren't actual retcons

[@ic3man213]

@@Jay-bl8ne So the retcon wasn't that he called him Darth the retcon was the meaning behind it. Darth was just supposed to be his name but was later changed to being a title of a sith lord

[@majinsweet]

@@Jay-bl8ne I've only heard this version of retcon in recent times, and anytime I've looked for a hard definition of the term, it almost always mentions a factual change in past continuity that changes the canon. Here is why I have to reject this interpretation of retcon. By this logic, just two characters talking about their day, would necessitate a bunch of retcons. A husband told his wife he had dinner earlier in the story, and we the audience only learned about it now? Retcon. The wife tells the husband that their daughter got hurt at school yesterday, another retcon? It just doesn't make sense. These two examples, are again, simply revelations to the audience. The term would basically be meaningless. From Merriam Webster: "Retcon is a shortened form of retroactive continuity, and refers to a literary device in which the form or content of a previously established narrative is changed. Retcons are often encountered in serial formats such as comic books or television series, where they serve as a means of allowing the work’s creators to create a parallel universe, reintroduce a character, or explore plot lines that would otherwise be in conflict with the work. Essentially, a retcon allows an author to have his or her cake and eat it too, as it enables the return of dead characters, the revision of unpopular elements of a work, and a general disregard for reality."

[@JuanCarrillo-Nava]

I would love to see more Sage reaction to Totally Not Mark videos.

[@Dumbfoundedexpression]

i feel like he doesn't know the difference between a retcon and reveal. a retcon is when something was previously stated to be cuz of something and then is later changed or narratively corrected to be something else versus a reveal which is something thats been there for a while has new info unlocked. a retcon is potara only being permanent for kais when it was originally permanent in general and a reveal is the power pole having gone to goku because korin had given it to to roshi who later gave it to gohan who gave it to goku. the nimbus retcon he stated wasn't the correct retcon. it was a reveal. the retcon would be for the first time nimbus was destroyed by colonel silver when the elder's in suno's village said that nimbuses are literally everywhere just call for it and it'll reappear. this info is then retconed by there being a giant nimbus that all nimbuses come from one nimbus instead of there just being multiple nimbuses. the dragon balls turning the sky dark once again is a reveal not a retcon because the first time shenron was summoned it was night and nobody had summoned shenron before so it turning the sky dark is a reveal because it doesn't contradict any previously stated info. the dragon balls having a creator isn't a retcon its a reveal it was never stated that there was a creator because the only one who could create such a thing would be god and up to that point they had no reason to believe god was a real person so its not a retcon its a reveal that god exists and that he created the dragon balls. piccolo being able to clone himself is technically a retcon because piccolo jr isn't supposed to be a clone he's supposed to be his son but was later retconned to be the reincarnation because otherwise the fact that goku killed demon king piccolo and kami was still alive is a plot hole. etc i've gotten tired of listing whats not a retcon

[@My_Master_Waves]

Yeah, these people misunderstand what a retcon is(including Mark). Imagine if they read detective books 😂 they'd be screaming that there's a retcon on every fifth page.

[@mikeval1525]

Raditz being in the afterlife was meant to tell us that piccolo is moving away from being the demon king.

[@michaelmodernsonicfan5341]

I feel like when most people say retcon they mean when something new is said that undermines what was previously said, not just new information but contradicting information that makes what was previously said false now

[@tylerberman7527]

yeah, and if we are saying all new information is a retcon then we have good retcons and bad retcons, its just the word "retcon" sounds bad

[@andrefarquharson2122]

You could probably argue that due to Cell being a Bio-mech organism that his regen abilities are enhanced especially due to the mix of Human, Saiyan, Frieza, and Namekians genetics but yeah deffo a retcon.

[@Nightxx9199]

I think the piccolo cloning himself bit. Is due to "If Piccolo Jr. Dies, so does Kami." Would theoretically apply to Demon King Piccolo as well. Thus if it wasn't a complete copy of his entire life essence as a whole. Kami would have died. At least that's what I think the video meant at least?

[@l33tcorps80]

Jiren has interesting backstory How could you not bring up El Hermano

[@DeathRex88]

@24:58 i always saw the brotherhood between Tao and Master Shen was like that in Chinese martial arts movies, not actually biological. They even carry the same vibe and esthetics being a school of assassin's.

[@thedevilsleutice]

Retcons aren’t always bad. Bad retcons are Jiren being the strongest despite Zamasu stealing gokus body. Especially after asking Zuno who should know everything. Goku being a Saiyan is a retcon that explains something that was never delved that much into. The entirety of super is a retcon. 10 years of peace my ass.

[@ironicname5901]

Jiren’s from a completely different universe brother what are you yapping about

[@bloody4558]

​@@ironicname5901Zamasu was also from another universe, did you forget that he is from universe 10?

[@Paul_Frank]

@@bloody4558 Zuno is in universe 7, why would he know things outside of U7 and maybe U6

[@bloody4558]

@@Paul_Frank Maybe that's a kind of ability he has.

[@vdarkwraith]

zamasu didnt know about jiren though?

[@TabbyVee]

i feel like he really quickly forgot the most important part about the word "retcon". its the "retroactive" part. Goku being a saiyan which implicates the great ape form and also Zenkai Boosts are all retcons because it changes our interpretation of past events. The Pilaf gang creating a box capable of blocking out the dragon ball signal is not a retcon, it changes nothing about previous events, its just a new technology. This is like saying we retcon'd communication in real life by inventing the telephone, because clearly the morse telegraph is the only way of communicating at long distances. No its just a new technology. There are a ton of 'retcons' in this video which have nothing to do with previous events

[@Valientlink]

Also, scouter communicators are shown to be able to be shut off, so I don't think the whole Frieza coming to Earth thing would've been possible. If Frieza was already being made up in Tori's mind, Vegeta at least, would know to keep his communicator off. So, I think simply that their communicators were off. They wanted immortality, so someone much stronger had to be out there

[@Crimzon.16]

17:30 Radiowaves are a form of electromagnetic waves. They're different, but if something is a radiowave, its inherently electromagnetic. Also, any waves get weaker through solid material. Getting so weak they're undetectable through a human is slight bs, but it's not even close to that bad. Anyways, have a good day guys

[@lukescrew1981]

I'm glad GT pretended senzu beans didn't exist

[@taydrtot2641]

TotallyNotMark is the GOAT fr🐐 🐐🔥🔥🔥

[@dylangunter1555]

Okay d rider

[@destrocore50]

This is the only vid of his so far that I find to be a bit dodgy, and less quality than he usually has.

[@midknightforever]

Cell regeneration is as strong as it is I think because of friezas genes to survive horrible conditions as well

[@total_carnage007]

I always attributed cells healing to a combination of piccolo's healing and frieza's resilience

[@Coreyy12]

Am I weird for thinking a good chunk of these are nitpicking. Like yeah sure you could say the fate of Planet Vegeta being changed is a retcon. Also you have to think, why would Frieza openly tell Vegeta, Nappa and Raditz “Yeah I blew up your planet. Womp womp”

[@tylerberman7527]

they are either nitpicking or just personal gripes with the story telling.

[@clasyykaz6190]

i agree with you on #30, I thought was just being smart.

[@Nik_kieth1011]

The first time i noticed a retcon in any show was Ben10 omniverse because the dumbass director was taking false information from the old ben10wiki essentially making them a bad retcon and putting it into the show making it a mess in the later half

[@Espurr.8]

Well i was not expecting that many

[@arsenewenger4847]

@@Espurr.8 That’s because the video isn’t correct. Mark doesn’t understand what retcons are.

[@DS123-gb8tf]

I agree senzu beans and goku being a alien isn’t really that much of a retcon but them zenkai boosts were definitely a$$ pulls😂💀

[@Supreme-AMVs]

I don’t know if I ever could count the 74th one in the video. Because I know that toriyama when making goku vs majin Vegeta, he had not thought of super Saiyan 3 yet.

[@Jay-bl8ne]

Poor writing skill does not excuse poor writing.

[@arkkon2740]

You can say that for just about 80% of the reveals really. Bad air wasn't thought of conveniently until Vegito pops up only for the time limit to crop up years after the fact. The saiyan reveal is technically retroactive because the entire series sets up the assumption that Goku had mythical or magical origins, not alien, did we forget the Sun Wukong references all the way through? The fact that there's 5 layers of stronger gods is retroactive because you can easily just stop at layer 2 or 3, and each layer only exists to facilitate some sort of exposition or McGuffin and then basically disappear

[@sknyc1688]

Which is exactly what makes it a retcon bud

[@tylerberman7527]

giving an explanation for something that isnt explained is litteraly a reveal, not a retcon. he pointed out so many just basic explanations and called them retcons

[@LordHypertronUniversum]

Nimbus was also destroyed earlier by Colonel Silever, but after Goku destroyed Muscle Tower. Jingle Village Chief revealed to Goku that Nimubus couldn't have been destroyed, and all Goku needs to do is summon it again.

[@stevenadamsapple]

Bulma gets retconned: I understand now

[@zoidsj]

Potara in Daima is by definition not a retcon as you read. The Potaras were retconned in Super for mortal time limit and with Dragon Balls in Kais. In Daima its simply an inconsistency because Shin de fusion is different from Super. It's a change in how it happened but it did not change that the Kais can defuse as of Super. Rare occasion where I completely disagree with Sage and Mark.

[@dralx2042]

41:15 fr tho. Hashirama cells are the backbone of the entire damn series 😂😂

[@antorequiem1205]

40:11 I might be misrememberinf stuff but I think this One Is the opposite Buu was initiallu said to be a creation of Bibidi but was retconned into having Always existed and get controlled by Bibidi later

[@grantjames7504]

A retcon is defined as something in canon bein changed to further a plot example them un fusing after it bein stated that u can’t just so they don’t stay like that forever

[@Grape_Rush_Goat]

Sage would say that people actually liking Goten in the first place is a retcon

[@bulletxwound3559]

Yeah the retcon videon neeeds to be retconed. Right off the bat it's wrong, Goku's tail being his weakness wasn't a retcon, bulma knew that the dragon balls would separate and turn to stone.

[@44SHOTS]

Practically TSO_Saiyan

[@15mcollins]

38:00 I loosely remember the “hyperbolic time chamber/ room in spirit and time” being in OG Dragonball though. It was presented different though in a creepy/scary filler episode with Mr. Popo. Like it wasn’t a blank room, it was some weird thing that messed with your mind idk

[@XoxoKawaiiGirl]

3:30 Thomas ❤ I loved that show growing up.

[@Angeal241]

raditz death to piccolo could be a retcon or as i like to think a hint that he isnt a "demon" anymore

[@Tr4yst3r]

I really dont think the Potara thing with Daima is a retcon, i would be a retcon if Daima took place after Super. But it doesn't. It's before Super and after Buu. It can easily be argued that Supreme Kai still believed that Potara was permanent for mortals and then later learned that it's only permanent when Supreme Kais are involved. They technically didn't "go back" to it being permanent cause chronologically speaking, its not going backward.

[@justtheboys1131]

I feel like the daima explanation on potara is a more in depth explanation from Z, which I don’t feel is a retcon, if you wanted to fit daima in between z and super, I still feel like the only real retcon is in super

[@miguelaguiar7094]

That is what a retcon is tho, just further elaborating on past lore/events, hence retroactive

[@justtheboys1131]

@ ig you’re right, I didn’t look at it as further elaboration and sortve took retcon as changing how something works, in z they were like “oh maybe buus body had something to do with it” and then in daima they’re like “yeah defs buus body bc of xyz”

[@MarioSonicBee]

The Super retcon on the Potara is the only retcon to the Potara imo. That it only lasts for an hour for mortals AND the time runs out faster depending on how much power you use. Daima is just the original explanation but both can be true at the same time.

[@tidistaylor1303]

Great video man keep working.

[@elcalabozodelandroide2]

28:39 another reveal Kami comments on it too ; pikoro stop being a demon because his heart went soft after spending time with gohan

[@agamr7151]

I still don't think the potara thing is a retcon both the bad air and the time limit explanations are not mutually exclusive

[@arkkon2740]

I feel like they very much are though, because you could absolutely have both at the same time but they only did it as a last minute addition If they started off with the magic defusion bit and had Old Kai explain this before or after the fact, it would be okay, it's a change of pace because it's an unexpected aspect of Buu that's slightly more believable. It took them literal decades to finally say that type of fusion has a time limit, and it just so happens that the *only* kai who knew about it was the one we know very little about to begin with. We know the kais are supposed to be incompetent, but I feel like such incompetence shouldn't be disruptive to information we could just know about and easily believe in the moment. As I said, we can have both, but it doesn't mean we can't do them at the same time and be told this in the same moment

[@agamr7151]

@arkkon2740 the time limit explanation is 100% a retcon but the thing is that the bad air explanation has always existed since Z and was assumed correct because there was no other logical explanation, the problem is that Gowasu is the one that explained about the time limit and only assumed that's why they were unfused despite having very little context and people believed that his explanation was the proper one, you can say it's a Retcon if that's what you personally believe I just view shin's explanation about how he unfused with kibito as confirmation that the explanation in z is probably the correct one

[@Degdreams]

8:09 ....did this man just pull a Brook?

[@JordanDavis-l8f]

Super Saiyan was never originally supposed to exist, this has been discussed several times. Transformations became a thing because of Dragon Ball z, namely Frieza

[@JordanDavis-l8f]

Great ape was something that had been left in the past until the Saiyan saga, the saiyans themselves being a retcon

[@kaison12205]

25:46 I actually don’t consider this a retcon but rather a reveal When Kami is first introduced and restores the dragon balls he implies that he doesn’t love keeping them around and he wants humans to solve their own problems Kami also based off how he was acting up until this point seemed to have accepted his own death. And was trying to convince goku to kill piccolo. The tone surrounding the arc is what makes me think it’s more of a reveal that Kami was lying because there’s too much foreshadowing. But you could argue it was a messy retcon that worked out

[@Valientlink]

As for #30, I don't call that a retcon. Goku using his Super Kamehameha I think was more a means of winning. He didn't want to kill Piccolo because he'd lose the match. He was serious enough to keep fighting with a hole in his chest. So, he probably just held back his ki some for those Kamehamehas. In both cases Piccolo survived even a direct hit.

[@LucidPhoton]

DBS is literally one big retcon lol. Also I'd say everything in DB may as well be a retocn since Toriyama was making everything up as he went along. Very rarely were the story beats actually planned out. It'd be easier to analyze stuff as retcons or reveals if the story was planned out or heavily explored like in something like lord of the rings or whatever

[@cjayden04-87]

I dont need my strong fighter antagonist to be evil or some “cool” backstory. Let him be a guy who is strong and is just here to fight for his prize. His feats and fights are cool which is all I need for TOURNAMENT of POWER.

[@Malhaloc]

I've always considered a retcon to be a change in the cannon material that contradicts previous material that cannot be logically explained in world. Example: The global map of Dragon Ball as shown in previous material is nothing like our earth. As of Battle of Gods, it has changed to be our earth. That's a retcon in my mind. Goku being a monkey boy, then turning out to be a Saiyan wouldn't be a retcon because earthlings have no idea what Saiyans are. Obviously Goku looked just like a human, but with a monkey tail. He's a monkey boy. That's just information the characters didn't know until it was revealed.

[@dralx2042]

9:13 Is this really a retcon, though? I think it's more of a reveal of its it's true purpose

[@tylerberman7527]

its not that we think a retcon is that, its thats what you treat retcons like.

[@tylerberman7527]

making a name for the race goku was when we never knew isnt a retcon.

[@Dumbfoundedexpression]

#30 is technically a retcon and a reveal. its a reveal that the dragon balls would stop if kami died but its a retcon that goku knows because goku only used the super kamehameha after r=krilin said kami could be wished back which as now being revealed that goku knew wasn't possible.

[@MotherLover1984]

He could just have figured it out

[@mortalballgt52]

Most of these aren't retcons because they don't affect how the story is being told. It just adds more to the lore! The nimbus cloud being a part of a much bigger nimbus cloud is not a retcon. It's just additonal lore!

[@miguelaguiar7094]

The idea is that initially you may have thought or assumed that the nimbus cloud was unique or one of its one, and the new information reshapes (or adds to like you said) what you thought you knew about it. So it is a retcon, that’s basically what they do, just add new information to reshape past lore

[@youssafeJaja]

@@miguelaguiar7094 like every show is retcons

[@FK74396]

Added lore is a retcon, it just matters if it makes sense

[@mortalballgt52]

@@FK74396 I'd argue that is not a what a retcon is supposed to be. A retcon is supposed to contradict the information previously given. Not back it up.

[@taydrtot2641]

You should watch the Modern DB retcons video he put out after this too

[@thecoffeemainiak5400]

Piccolo Jr is King Piccolo in the literal sense, so he did clone himself in a way. Remember how Kid Buu was reincarnated as Ubb? That's kind of what happened here except King Piccolo bypassed the otherworld system and was reincarnated instantly. King Piccolo transfers his soul to the egg as well as his memories, this is why Kami didn't die, king piccolo didn't die and was reborn as Piccolo Jr. To put it another way, if someone asked Shennron to revive King Piccolo, it would not work because he is already alive as Piccolo Jr.

[@rilentkiller]

Even the fusion dance was retconed. When goku and vegeta left broly to fight frieza the original anime rules would've had frieza fighting damn near 3hrs

[@MotherLover1984]

He was

[@Gerudo_King]

Yall do know that radio waves are a type of wave on the electromagnetic spectrum right?

[@ic3man213]

37:55 am i crazy....didnt popo let goku go in the time chamber in DB & he almost died. The correct retcon would be that it was stated only 1 person can go in at a time then changed when vegeta and trunks went in

[@Kevinmentell098]

idk...I just remember the room that Goku trained in was used to kinda go back in time (the one that the z-fighters went into during the saiyan saga) I don't remember Goku actually going into the time chamber or even a mention of it

[@solflake]

One retcon I didn’t like it was that Majin Buu could sleep for 5 sec and that was enough but during tournament of power bro could not keep himself awake. I mean come on. His 5 sec nap is my fav gag in the entire series

[@juicy5251]

It’s not really a retcon because it could be implied that it’s taunting and he got bored then the games interpreted that to be healing for game mechanics

[@solflake]

@ whatever you call it, they could have made up any other reason for Buu not participating. As I said the 5 sec bit was iconic and they should have continued it

[@juicy5251]

@ yeah 100%

[@Valientlink]

Surprised he missed the balls activating in under a year. Goku, still 12 when the wish was made, was still 12 after the tournament when he went to look for his ball. I think overall though, zenkai boosts are one of the worst retcons in history lol. They don't exist until Namek as a means of scaling up Gohan, Goku & Vegeta. Vegeta said hurting himself wouldn't work; it did for Goku

[@LifeOfBoogie803]

I know it’s random but would Pan be able to turn super saiyan? She’s a 4th saiyan I wonder if that’s far off.

[@drskull.]

Regarding Cell I actually think it makes sense as Cell also has Friezas cells and we see in Super and Even in Z that Frieza can survive in states of severe dismemberment, so If Cell had his DnA hed be alive even in states of Severe damage and thus able to regenerate

[@RobeBLB]

If I have to slander the ToP to talk shit about Jiren that's a price I'm willing to pay.

[@AlvarGeesusTheCreator]

38:36 It was made clear that the androids didn’t arrive at the time trunks said nor were they the same androids he was talking about. That’s kinda a duh moment

[@ruff1236]

I wonder if the fact that characters like roshi and krillin can solo all of z will be counted as a retcon

[@ac2raw]

I feel like some of these are plot twists and not retcons

[@Ivandsi]

23:50 One thing about this, if Piccolo Jr. (our Piccolo) is not a reincanation of Piccolo Daimaō and he is just his son then why didn't Kami just die back then?

[@johnschwalb]

Radio waves are electromagnetic. That’s not a retcon that’s just a change in specificity

[@alexsanchez1620]

I feel like people call anything a retcon, learning more about somthings lore is not a retcon

[@marlinmurrell620]

37:31 I personally call it all the Android Saga. Theyre all Androids made by Dr. Gero.

[@schneider_man8770]

Any time there is plot development or a new twist it's a retcon?

[@Chillbro740]

You should watch Yurazah sometime. He’s got some good content and very few “wait a minute” moments/takes. Along with having power scaling videos that make sense for me. Although the real reason i’m doing this is to see how much you can find odd about it to be honest

[@Chillbro740]

Also good vid

[@KonEl17]

I always contribute Cell regen being stronger then Piccolo cuz of Frieza durability add on.