Tuba Orchestration

This video is about Tuba Orchestration. I compare it to the Bass trombone, and show real examples of it with other trombones, french horns, bass clarinet and contrabass
Tuba combinations:
• Tuba Combinations & Do...
Tuba orchestration by Gil Evans:
• How Gil Uses the Tuba
0:00 Intro
0:18 Description of Tuba tone
0:52 Tuba sound
1:16 Bass trombone sound
1:45 With a trombones section
2:45 With French horns
3:48 Tuba doublings
5:35 With bass clarinet
5:50 With contrabass
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Closed voicing, John Williams, open voicing, jazz harmony, music theory, Miles Davis, big band, soli, jazz chords, orchestration, miles ahead

[@gilevansinsideout]

Woah, I just hit 4k subs, amazing! Especially for such niche content. I think I'll do a Q&A in celebration. If you have any arranging, music theory or Gil Evans questions. Just comment them below!

[@mikevirtualteacher]

Congratulations- that is well deserved- I just found your channel and subscribed immediately. Please keep making more harmony and orchestration vids or any other knowledge you’d like to share. These videos are great! Thank you!

[@mikevirtualteacher]

And definitely any arranging videos as well would be appreciated- taking a melody and developing it into a whole chart that flows? Even just the broad strokes of that?

[@zackwoods5077]

The BBb tuba doesn't sound an octave lower than written, but it is pitched an octave lower than a bass trombone. A bass trombone is pitched identically to a tenor or standard trombone, but has a larger bore and usually more triggers to enhance the low range. What i mean by pitching is the note your first partial is for frst position or open fingering. This is the second line Bb for a bass trombone, but the Bb two lines below the staff for a BBb tuba.

[@gilevansinsideout]

Nice, thank you

[@DigitalCasm]

Whoah. The amount of effort that goes in to these videos to provide actual examples - in context - performed by great musicians - recorded incredibly well - and with the score is nuts!!!

[@gilevansinsideout]

Thank you! Yes I prefer to provide real samples. I think You’d like my other orchestration videos too

[@billyboijenkins8701]

Sounds awesome! As a bass trombone player myself, I love when others are able to share their knowledge!❤

[@gilevansinsideout]

Thanks, it’s great to hear from the players themselves!

[@tom33453]

As a trumpet player, I've found tuba to be very difficult.

[@gilevansinsideout]

To play you mean? :D

[@Halberds8122]

Haha can't handle the breath control? :)

[@cavalcadeofbobs3559]

As a (bass) trombonist and occasional tubist, I've found the trumpet to be very difficult.

[@Halberds8122]

@@cavalcadeofbobs3559 makes sense after all we never get any hard parts :'(

[@cavalcadeofbobs3559]

@@Halberds8122 oh, I meant more in the "making a sound that isn't a fart" way

[@amj.composer]

Nice vid, the Tuba is so underrated and underrepresented. Bass trombones are awesome in loud moments, is more agile and actually works well with doubling. Not to mention, BT can slide!! I've been commissioned to write a bass trombone concerto, I have some brainstorming to do 😂😂

[@gilevansinsideout]

Oh congrats on the concerto! Have fun with it.

[@Halberds8122]

Lower brass instruments need more concertos :(

[@evanmisejka4062]

My personal orchestration opinion is that it is the trombones and tuba that dictate the fullness of a symphony orchestra. If I want the piece to sound really full, I write a full, spacious trombone section usually tuba an octave lower than bass trombone. Of course there are countless combinations, but I think trombones are one of the most important to what I just discussed.

[@gilevansinsideout]

Yes great point. The low brass can be so rich and powerful

[@Halberds8122]

@@gilevansinsideout hey I just noticed something. Brass sounds can be divided into conical and cylindrical. Cylindrical instruments (trumpet and trombone) have more attack and are generally more powerful. Conical instruments (Tuba, horn, euphonium, baritone) are brighter and have a more smooth sound.

[@zyupan7050]

I play both and I feel like for the super low range (like lower than the piano) is easier to play on the bass trombone. Also the bass trombone can play loud easier. And on the tuba you can play very high as well. So it’s more about the tone and context

[@gilevansinsideout]

Thanks for the insight. It’s definitely about context and tone 😁

[@williamsanborn9195]

To me, bass trombone and tuba are better when they play the same parts in an orchestra. You get the extra low end from the tuba and the raw power of the bass trombone, so it’s the best of both worlds! That’s usually how I write them, anyway.

[@gilevansinsideout]

Good point!

[@RobberZhi]

Thanks!

[@gilevansinsideout]

Wow, thank you!

[@bobbylovejoy]

Thank you!

[@gilevansinsideout]

You're welcome!

[@Jordu7]

Great video, Alex. Thank you. The bass brass and woodwind instruments attract me like no others when listening to big band music. Gil Evans is a master of using them. What do you think about doubling the tuba with an euphonium (one octave higher I believe)? They should merge well.

[@gilevansinsideout]

My pleasure! I think a euph would blend very with a tuba, but I’ve never tried it!

[@markdundore1661]

I like to use trombone/euphonium as a double, as well as myself on bass bone/tuba as a double.

[@seth094978]

The fun part about euphonium is that it can play all the way down to B0 (I've actually gone below that with false tones) so you can totally double at the same pitch, too. Your players might hate you for it, but you'll get a harsher, less refined tone in that low range than on a bass or contrabass, which can be fun.

[@Jordu7]

@@seth094978 Good to know. Are you playing in a big band? What kind of music are you making? I always loved listening to tuba and euphonium, in particular in a Jazz setting. I didn't realize there are so many different kinds like F and Bb tuba and other special makeups.😊

[@LowBrassU]

Nice video! I am always a huge fan of the pairing of tuba and bass clarinet in a big band setting. It’s not utilized nearly enough!

[@gilevansinsideout]

Thank you, I agree! 😊

[@derycktrahair8108]

Thanks, that sounds great. What do you think of Sousaphone in a Trad Jazz line up?

[@gilevansinsideout]

Oh you mean like in a New Orleans sound? Yeah I think that’s very cool

[@derycktrahair8108]

@@gilevansinsideout ok, WHY ? Sousa = less deep in tone & more flexible? Are Sousas looked down upon in the Tuba community?

[@gilevansinsideout]

Actually I don't know if they are looked down on! I shouldn't think so. I'll have to ask some of my tuba friends. I suspect a Sousaphone is easier to carry around the streets!

[@derycktrahair8108]

@@gilevansinsideout YES, Sousa was into his thing. Marching, & turning the corner & the wind catches Bell..we have been there..but WHAT is your opinion re Sousaphone vs Tuba..quality of tone, flexibility, +ve , minus,?

[@gilevansinsideout]

Oh sure, I would say the tuba has a bit more of a focused tone. The agility is probably similar, but the diffuse quality of the sousaphones sound makes it harder to hear passages that are played quickly. I think if you used it in a jazz/classical ensemble setting it would often benefit from doubling at pitch or at the octave, especially when playing a moving line. Their ranges are the same.

[@merify3391]

I love how the bass trombone picture is a tenor trombone lol. Nonetheless, beautiful video.

[@gilevansinsideout]

😁

[@waitotong9590]

What about the contrabass trombone?

[@gilevansinsideout]

Oh, I don’t have any recordings of that instrument

[@nickbowd]

Hey mate. How can I get in touch with you? Email? Website? Etc. love the channel. I’m a sax player in sydney. Mainly Bari bass Clari etc. 5th woodwind. Came through nz on tour with the mothership orchestra a number of years back. I wanted to get in contact.

[@gilevansinsideout]

Hey Nick, Oh I've heard of the Mothership Orchestra. Very cool. Glad you are enjoying the channel. alexvdbroek (at) gmail com

[@nickbowd]

@@gilevansinsideout thanks mate. I’ll send you an email when I’ve got a proper minute.

[@MasterHiggins23]

To me the tone of the tuba is closest to that of a much larger french horn.

[@gilevansinsideout]

Yes I agree

[@xkay-six1845]

As a bass trombonist, I’m not entirely too sure how accurate the range is, technically I’m sure a tuba COULD play down to the double pedal F, but it’s not very feasible for writing imo. Lowest I personally have ever seen a tuba note is double pedal C, (not the C below the staff but the one below that) and that was in Don Ellis’ Trumpet Concerto lol, and then on the higher side, sure Pictures at an Exhibition has the G# right below that tenor clef A, but normally the tubist will bring out a smaller tuba (probably F Tuba) or the solo will be given to a baritone/euphonium player, and not a chance in hell I’ve even thought about a tubist trying to play that high C, hell I barely see it in my parts, only thing I can even think of right off the bat is the trombone Soli in Shostakovich Symphony 3 and even then it’s in all 3 parts. Also please use a picture of an actual bass trombone not a tenor😭 I can guarantee you that picture you use is a Jupiter JTB1150F, other than this part though I really enjoyed the video!

[@gilevansinsideout]

Thanks for your thoughts 🙂. Sorry about the tenor trombone pic

[@OliverMiller-cg7ng]

what is the name of the song at 1:45

[@gilevansinsideout]

Hey Oliver. It’s some of the harmony from my 8 bar orchestration example that I use in lots of my orchestration videos. I composed the melody, but it’s not dissimilar from the bridge in ‘moon and sand’. Have a look at some of my other videos. 😀

[@JHouse4]

In every example I preferred the bass trombone. It's a great demonstration of how poorly the tuba blends with other instruments but rather envelopes them and dominates the texture, and why it should be used very carefully and deliberately to achieve effects rather than to fill out bass parts by default.

[@gilevansinsideout]

It’s interesting hearing all of the different perspectives. Thanks for your thoughts 🙂

[@Dre-uk8wc]

To me the bass trombone sounded harsh and too high for being a lower brass part

[@gilevansinsideout]

Fair enough 😃

[@AryaPanah]

Hi

[@adamhero459]

It’s basically how you want the part to blend in wi5t he other instruments. Want a more mellow sound? Go tuba. Want less mellow? Go bass trombone. Although if the tuna player is good enough it’s not that big of a deal and is something you don’t do much of, but bass trombone sounds better in the upper register.

[@gilevansinsideout]

Nice summation there 😊

[@walterbrown8694]

Is Trombone a baritone Tuba ?

[@gilevansinsideout]

No it’s not actually

[@CheukTheGreatestOfEverything]

a baritone tuba will be euphonium

[@ChataniMusic]

For me the most killing is beat four of measure 2. I guess the voicing is an Eb- shape over the A7b9 tonality leading into D-? Having that C in the tuba melody gives it something more in that fleeting moment, a kind of rub that it wouldn't have hit the same way if it was a C#

[@gilevansinsideout]

Yes that’s correct. Do you mean you don’t like the harmony there, or you do?

[@ChataniMusic]

@@gilevansinsideoutI do!

[@gilevansinsideout]

Oh good! Yeah it’s one of those times when thinking or composing the bassline first really works out nicely

[@badgermusicuk]

Are you saying that these are actual recordings of real instruments?

[@gilevansinsideout]

They sure are! 😀 that tends to be the way I roll on my channel

[@badgermusicuk]

Your tuba player has a very consistent crack at the start of many of his notes!

[@adhdlama2403]

​@@gilevansinsideout absolutely wonderful 😮! What incredible pitch control and sound consistency the players have.

[@ComposerBiz]

@@badgermusicuki noticed that haha, sounds like they should practice their scales and arpeggios a little bit more to get a better feel as to where the exact partials are. it sounds like to me they’re undershooting every note and self correcting as they play, could just be they haven’t fully warmed up yet (source: am a tuba player)

[@BoazKimMusic]

@@badgermusicukI’m guessing the tuba may have been played by a doubler who doesn’t mainly focus on tuba. Possibly the bass trombone player.

[@sebbiewebbiee]

this is so psychedelic

[@gilevansinsideout]

😂

[@zachrafalke5072]

This video is super interesting cuz I made an 80 slide presentation to why the tuba sucks and bass trombone eats it up so this will make me think thank you

[@gilevansinsideout]

Hahahha I’d love to see your slide presentation! 😂

[@TheRandomWolf]

Excuse me?

[@DeadShotGaming137]

Bro, I play tuba. There a lot better than trombone, AND I USED TO PLAY ONE

[@TheRandomWolf]

Bass trombone, contrabass trombone, and cimbasso are the most epic sounding instruments I’ll admit but the tuba does not suck and can do things those instruments can’t (People often judge tuba over video but it sounds leagues better in person)

[@WockMonkey]

As a tuba player yes no notes its better

[@gilevansinsideout]

😁

[@TheRealCoolElho]

Tuba is superior.

[@user-pt7mm1so8g]

Sorry, But I played bass trombone, Euphonium, and BBb tuba and a tuba sounds an octave lower than written.

[@gilevansinsideout]

Have you played in brass bands? Transpositions are often are little different in that music. Generally the tuba isn’t transposing though.

[@MarkZickefoose]

I play all three as well (and double bass, which does sound an octave below), and transposing tuba parts are the exception, not the rule. Brass band parts transpose, but that's from treble clef which is WAY more than one octave.

[@brodyquestionmark]

What do you mean?

[@gilevansinsideout]

Well for instance in a brass band you usually see trombone parts written in the treble clef and in Bb. But in an orchestra and jazz band they are written in bass clef as a C instrument.

[@Halberds8122]

@@gilevansinsideout correct, the Tuba isn't transposing.

[@user-pt7mm1so8g]

First off a tuba sounds an octave lower than written on the bass clef staff where a trombone plays the actual notes placing it an octave above the tuba. Another thing a trombones uses cylindrical tubing except for the final flare on the bell. The Tuba use ever increasing diameter tubing giving a totally different harmonic very similar to a Euphonium.

[@mixedstaples8030]

that isn't true. Tubas sound at pitch.

[@germanocampo8381]

I think your thinking of upright bass. The upright bass is written one octave higher then sounding. It’s pretty common to see upright bass players playing tuba music, but they must transpose there music to fit accordingly. Tuba is a non transposing instrument so it’s written true to pitch.

[@gilevansinsideout]

True about the upright bass, I forgot to mention the octave transposition. Yes it’s out of habit that I did that.