Tudor Sex | Betwixt The Sheets

WARNING: This episode includes adult themes and explicit words.
Why did Henry VIII want everyone to know about his wet dreams? What animal product were condoms made from? And was coffee really ruining the sex lives of wives?
Suzannah Lipscomb from our sister podcast, Not Just the Tudors, joins Kate Betwixt the Sheets to talk all things sex in the 16th century.
Find out whether sex back then really was just to reproduce, the ‘discovery’ of the clitoris, and the truth about royal syphilis.
Produced by Charlotte Long and Sophie Gee. Mixed by Seyi Adaobi.
Betwixt the Sheets: The History of Sex, Scandal & Society. A podcast by History Hit.
This podcast includes music from Epidemic Sounds and an archive clip from The Private Life of Henry VIII, 1933.

[@melissapinol7279]

I am an Anthropology /Social Science major with a special interest and years of study in Ancient religions. I wanted to mention that in Sumer and Babylon ( and even the Hebrews before the one God, I talked to a Rabbi) the Priestesses of Inanna, Ishtar and Ashera were called "Sacred Prostitutes" by Historians, but they called themselves some varient of "Kadeshtu" or "Kadesh" which means "Holy One". Their role was to serve the Goddess, ( all these Goddesses were Goddesses of love and sexuality) partly by bringing men into communion with the Goddess through Sacred sex. It was literally a religious act, there was so concept of "sleazy". They recieved years of training and as far as we can tell the role was a great honor and probably voluntary. No one would dare disrespect or mistreat these women. The attitude back then was so different it is difficult for us to comprehend.

[@StarOnTheWater]

It is difficult. But I am sure, as humans are humans, that the devine and the profane have always been intertwined in this. Can't imagine a group of me not having their dirty jokes even if it was about a goddess.

[@melissapinol7279]

​@@StarOnTheWaterActually, there were severe penalties for abusing or even disrespecting these women. There may have been jokes, but that's as far as people would have willing to go. Even these women's children were respected.

[@MatthewThepuds]

Que😊

[@cmcg9035]

Thank you for this discussion. I am not familiar with Anne Boleyn's reproductive symptoms and would like to know more. But we know from contemporary sources that with Mary I, we can conclude fairly reliably that she had reproductive tract issues all her life, and most likely repeated and severe ovarian and/or uterine cysts. Her "phantom pregnancy" symptoms were identical to cyst conditions, including pain of different levels, cramping, amenorrhea, belly distention, breast changes, and movement felt within (especially if the intestine is involved in the cyst's placement). They can come on all of a sudden. Any of these can resolve if cysts burst or shrink on their own. The pressures were high, but "phantom pregnancy" always carries with it misogyny, especially when we know these symptoms can be caused by reproductive cysts. It was not all in Mary's (and Anne Boleyn, if she had similar symptoms) head. I wish we could get rid of the phantom pregnancy concept altogether, as it dismisses serious reproductive conditions and demeans these intelligent women and women in general.

[@camilledvorak7151]

Wonderful well thought out comment.

[@margaretlouise6200]

Mary was a very sad story. Seems like she went from beloved child to abandoned bastard, then unwanted wife and "Bloody Mary," not trusting anyone, to court laughing stock for faux pregnancy, to growing ever sicker and more pathetic. Life sucked and then she died. I hope her next life was better. Couldn't have been worse.

[@StarOnTheWater]

I don't think they have much on common medically. I think the consensus about Anne Boleyn is that she could not carry Henry's children to term because he had a rare genetic factor. Not infertility on her part. Of course we can't know for sure.

[@nanci2571]

I Believe Anne Was RH negative

[@StarOnTheWater]

@@nanci2571 Possibly, the current diagnosis I think is that he was Kell positive. The reproductive pattern can be traced back in the family tree with some probability. It would explain the miscarriages of both of his wives. It would also offer an explanation for his mental decline later in life, which could be attributed to mcleods syndrome, that only affects kell positive individuals.

[@melissapinol7279]

Second comment from the Anthropology Major, in New Guinea some of the tribes studied have effective, safe forms of abortion and contraception using certain herbs. The herbs have some toxic qualities so the users have to be very, very careful. If they are, it's not harmful. It's true that these people tend to have small families. I don't know why these herbs haven't been studied.

[@cosgroveshepherd191]

didn't penny royal become almost extinct in Europe because everyone used it for abortions?

[@Laudanum-gq3bl]

Why do animal gut condoms still exist? A lot of people are allergic or sensitive to latex, and one does not to risk an allergic rash on one's genitals. Older folks might not know that other non-latex options exist since they were not available until 2008. Why so many latex allergies and sensitivities ? In the 1980s and 1990s there was a rise in latex allergies among healthcare workers due to universal precautions becoming required. So instead of occasional use, wearing latex gloves was required for nearly all exams and procedures. Hence, allergies.

[@margaretlouise6200]

Henry VIII was no HBO Jonathan Rhys Meyers betwixt the sheets. Anne Boleyn famously said he had neither the ability or skill to please a woman. Ouch. Probably didn't help to keep her head on either.

[@conmckfly]

That would seem probable.

[@debbralehrman5957]

Wow I knew that understanding about sex and the anatomy was not understood in the Tudor times. But the fact some of the things you spoke of being less than 100 years ago. Thank you for the pod cast.

[@StKrane]

What a lovely and important conversation. Thank you, ladies!

[@nancytestani1470]

Midwives? Herb women.? Gossip with servants. Watching the chicken and rooster. On the farm. You would be naive but still would see things. If you still lived long enough to have children. It was the wife’s fault if she didn’t get pregnant and her fault if she did not have the gender the couple wanted.

[@MrWylis]

This pod is world class. Rare to find such easygoing manner alongside so much knowledge. Top tier. Thank you.

[@katwitanruna]

Wonderful as always! Shared, as always!

[@marylarson1874]

I wonder if disease started to put a negative connotation to prostitution.

[@camilledvorak7151]

Many herbs were known to bring on the flux (menses). It's not difficult to make connections to preventing pregnancy. The spanish ambassador hated Anne Boleyn.

[@kermit_fan5059]

10/10, i love this podcast and both historians in it!

[@JustAnotherNerdGirl7]

Hello, friend! Great podcast! I just wanted to point out that not everyone experiences sexual desire or attraction. Asexual people exist and have existed since the beginning of time. It's not fair to say that sex is something we all experience. Just wanted to point that out. Keep up the great work!

[@rochelledowie931]

I understood it as she meant we all have experience with sex being that we're all the result of someone's orgasm.

[@JustAnotherNerdGirl7]

@@rochelledowie931 That's an interesting perspective. However, I was an IVF baby, so I didn't get here through traditional means either.

[@rochelledowie931]

@@JustAnotherNerdGirl7 you did get here through someone's orgasm still though. Unless the sperm was physically extracted from the testicle. Collection is usually from the male orgasm.

[@bodacioustness5054]

Well, that was an abrupt ending.

[@tommymarco]

damn, had to jump to the end !

[@RobotiSal]

A lingering question I have is that if it wasn't known the clitoris was an organ, how did surgeons performing FGM know it was something that could be removed way back in the 5th C BC?

[@zanzibarkasmith5448]

But breast feeding isn't contraception... My granny thought it was, and that's how my father was conceived.

[@MSN_63]

Breastfeeding has a hormonal effect that reduces (but doesn't prevent) the chances of getting pregnant again, and poor nutrition has the same effect. So breastfeeding used to "work better" as a contraceptive earlier in history when people weren't as well fed in general - even the rich people who could afford to have enough food didn't necessarily get nearly all the necessary nutrients and vitamins etc.

[@madisongoodnight2744]

Theoretically breastfeeding can be a contraceptive, but you have to be very diligent about feeding on a very consistent schedule which is very difficult to achieve. Not a reliable method at all

[@lotlot]

45 years ago it was still believed that one couldn’t get pregnant is one was breast feeding

[@grantmcraven]

Axtec people mostly spoke Nauatl. Most didn't speak Spanish until well after the conquest.

[@nancytestani1470]

No, it is passed on to wives and children and his kids would have shown and his wives

[@pebble_soup9095]

Sheep skin/gut condoms are still around for those who are allergic to latex

[@krooks6367]

The coffee pamflett is mainly consider to be written by beerproducer if you read coffeehistorical . That beerindustri was effected

[@dragonclaws9367]

Thank You Doctor Lister for leading me to the birching of miss bellasis at verbena house. Ancient people were just as filthy as todays internet porn. That book was quite free.

[@krooks6367]

Coffeshops where also intellectual places where at least 2 revolutions where planned on. You could read newspapers, pamfletts, play biljard and in some degree meet ladies. But i haven’t found any ladies more than the owners wife or servats that seems to be more than Serving. In my country We have ladies in more intimite scenens while drinking But not in coffeehouses. On the Blue dragon and Le Procope where 2 revolution planned

[@Onetwelvefourth]

Because the coffee shops were covers for bawdy houses. The men were going home sexually spent.

[@mrJohnDesiderio]

Just imagine the stench

[@bavariancarenthusiast2722]

Yep but if you are brought up like this - that was normal for you

[@AnnaAnna-uc2ff]

Thanks.

[@leebarry5686]

Because they misled and decay into animals or lower

[@user-yc9cd5rv3q]

Bet it was extremely aromatic.

[@fizzallah3735]

Rather banal and not informative at all.

[@gonefishing167]

👍👍👍👍👵🇦🇺

[@user-ey4rc5tu4t]

New catch word? Stigma.

[@cyberspelunker1980]

“Sex work” isn’t work. Exploiting a human body for money is not okay. That’s my opinion.

[@bavariancarenthusiast2722]

Yeah your opinion maybe - but that´s up to the sex worker, if they do it on their free decision, pay taxes, social security and they want it? Who are you to put a stigma on them. If somebody is forced to slave work - there are laws for it.

[@brunamota8865]

every work exploits the human body, just in different manners

[@ryanborder189]

Half way through and still not heard any interesting analysis-just modern feminists telling us what we’re allowed to say.

[@julieschoolcraft1503]

I can answer every single question you presented in the first 5 minutes. It’s all about the Law of God. God told us what He wanted and therefore there’s laws against sodomy and same sex marriage. The end.

[@user-ev4ie2wx7k]

Oh go away. Thank you.

[@purlypuss]

idiotic discussion about what to call prostitutes by women who will never be in that terrible position.

[@OdeInWessex]

Way to completely miss the point, well done.

[@margaretlouise6200]

Yes, no woman would take on the profession without being in a terrible position. One should have some respect for their resilience and strength to do what they had to do in a very bad situation. The real guilt lies in there being no alternative to women who for whatever reason fell out of grace or lacked money.

[@linpollitt8950]

I had a friend who worked for several years in a high class brothel purely through choice. After that she left and bought herself a house. She was lovely girl, attractive and intelligent. I thought no less of her although it wouldn't be the right choice for me. This was in Australia, by the way.

[@shirleymarie2288]

Not every person who goes into sex work is in a terible position, especially today, cam work and sites like onlyfans are sex work. Pornography is sex work. Even if you're thinking of sex work only as being someone who engages in physical sexual activities with a paying customer, that is legal in many places and isnt limited to being done only by those who are in terible situations. It sounds like ypu have empathy for the people who do fall into sex work out of desperate situations, but many of those people would object to using the term "prostitute", as its considered dehumanizing and carries a negative connotation and moral judgement. The entire point of the conversation they had was that sex work is/was more nuanced than you make it seem, there were different terms used depending on the type of work done; also using more respectful terms shows empathy for those forced into it or doing it out of desperation.

[@margaretlouise6200]

@@shirleymarie2288 Yes, I can see how very uplifting such work would be.

[@josephcollins6033]

Wanted to come here to tell you again how ridiculous your podcasts are. Women should not talk about history; they are too biased and frustrated.

[@MSN_63]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@josephcollins6033]

@@MSN_63 Glad u agree. Thanks.

[@MSN_63]

​@@josephcollins6033 Wow... how exactly do you think that me laughing at your comment means AGREEING with you?

[@josephcollins6033]

@@MSN_63 You must be a woman. I was making fun of you...duh...

[@bigalssecondchin5744]

Gr8 b8 m8.