Tuning MAF and VE At The Same Time With Wideband and Narrowband Sensors!?

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[@jmfh7445]

That's some cool stuff, will be interesting to see if we can do that on the gen4

[@MrSchmidthead]

Gen 4 E67 2013 CTS-V doesn't have Flow Factor as a PID (Insert Wonk Wonk sound effect)

[@radz-cp8lt]

smokeshow, over on HPTuners, has shown something like this. He's referencing GMVE instead of your Flow Factor. I'm going to try to see if I have Flow Factor in my PIDs and compare. Regardless - if it is similar, this has been an effective way to tune MAF and VVE for a good bit of time. It's nice to see it on video though and see someone actually talk about it. Thank you for your efforts and sharing your knowledge.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

The GMVE way is different, I did a video on a process similar to what he talked about a couple years ago but ultimately determined it wasn't an effective way to tune.

[@anasasisxenophontis]

@@GoatRopeGarage what made it ineffective for you?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Watch the video where I talked about VE calcs, looking at how the dynamic airflow works to do the final fueling calcs kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5KzaaFomdSjqs0 The fun part is seeing how close smokeshows calcs are to mine that I posted almost a year before

[@GoatRopeGarage]

And I am not throwing any shade by any means, I love when someone extrapolates and finds a better way, but I have already gone down this path and what this video shows is a whole different level of tuning.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

In fact you will see how he talks about units being important just like I was talking about the units being critical around 1:35 in my video

[@shanesouza4303]

Only way to find out is to try. Thanks for taking us along for the ride. 😁 Pun intended.

[@mcbridemotorsports5788]

Ooooooo....I want to try this now...lol looks like ill have some late nights coming up...lol

[@ryandass15]

I just track the Calculated Flow rate in g/s from the VE, MAF, and Dynamic airflow. I set it up to tune for SD like usual, and The % error between the VE flow rate (calculated) and the MAF flow rate (actual) is what I multiply the MAF Table by. You have to add a negative to the % error table and change the unit to Number not percent so if you copy and paste the changes they correspond. As VE flow rate gets more accurate as you tune VVE tables the MAF Flow rate will also get tuned at the same time and this will stop the correlation dtcs once its dialed in. Im hoping at least.

[@pcmfrenzy1089]

FINNALY FORUMS!!! GET OFF FACEBOOK!!! Bring back the forums!!! ❤

[@RuchoGarciaT]

Hi, where I can find the math? I couldn't find the forums neither

[@JoeSimpsonAtTempest]

This is both why i hate oem ecu tuning and what is cool about hp tuners. Pretty cool stuff though.

[@RichieYes]

I have the gen5 e92 ecm and logging the flow factor but it always show 0 data, is it relying on any other channel that needs to be available also?

[@Battle_Garage]

where did the split percentages of ve and maf come from? I got a little lost at how its deciding how much is maf and how much is ve

[@daveb1870]

So on your live vid on the 23rd you mentioned the neural network and teaching it what a black car looks like then later changing it to a white car and having to map that. Is this similar then, ve and maf at the same time, do we infact have sort of two diff cars now?

[@晶黄-d1o]

err.......,“flow factor” data won't be displayed，my car is gen 4 。i wonder what can replaced it？

[@anthonypapa8676]

Will all that work for me if I have my LTFT turned off?

[@uniqueone1653]

Hi thank you for your knowledge, my first time in this want to learn. Question please, what do I need as in computer or other sources to be tuning on any car but it's to learn im a rookie on this. Thank any Ingo. Will be appreciated

[@thomasjohnson1142]

That’s awesome pick me coach ! Lol awww man I don’t have a mass air I guess I need to get one and turn it back on lol but I agree DFCO is surely jacking up your lower tables. The mad scientist at it again I like it brother .I’m gonna check out my 2011 e38 here shortly so I’ll hit the forums if I get lucky .

[@antonylopez5742]

2005 Silverado lm7 stage 2 cam swap with Tbss intake Doug shorties . Can I fix the p0300 with hp tuners? Or is it something mechanical I have to fix. I’m new to the scenery-any advice will be great

[@crashtke]

In the 3 bar os does it still take the narrow bands and fuel trims into account?

[@ajjskins]

DO you have a channels list for this log? I cant duplicate anything you doing. I have coped the math, checked it like 6 times even added the spaces for it matched what was in the window. I for what I can only guess is I am missing a channel somewhere. I have even used the Channels list that I bought from your web cite, still cant duplicate even raw data much less make any corrections.

[@ajjskins]

Is there anyway to do this with just the stock O2 sensors?☹️☹️

[@joshuaduquette466]

I know this vid is over a year old but im kinda new to tuning and cant for the life of me find the Flow Factor pid to throw into my scanner. E37 pcm

[@mss14380]

If the math is right, should work. I have a gen 3 running flex fuel on 2002 tahoe OS, does not have that parameter. Would a p59 os have that if I were to swap it someday? Also I setup a timing table and used the torque value instead. My thought was I could compare timing and torque readings per cell to determine optimum timing. Any thoughts on that and are the torque readings being output accurate enough to use for this? Theres no knock retard with flex fuel.

[@joshhuoabski3278]

just noticing the corvettes color. what do they call that?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Laguna Beach Red, or Sunset or some crap like that lol

[@RobsHouse]

@@GoatRopeGarage Long Beach Red

[@RobsHouse]

I’m going to test this on my C7 Z06

[@RobsHouse]

This did not work for me. It threw my LTFTs farther out of whack to the point of causing idling issues and a bunch of other drivability wonkiness. I went back to the accepted ways of doing MAF and VVE tuning.

[@anasasisxenophontis]

You are adjusting steady state calibrations based on errors measured during extreme transients. A boost transition, no less. Honestly, not to piss in your cheerios, but everything about this is wrong.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

The data says that it works, will show more as we go along, but unless you can prove otherwise this works.

[@anasasisxenophontis]

@@GoatRopeGarage You will find the proof by operating in those areas you just adjusted, but instead at steady state. It can be done easily with a dyno, but otherwise is still possible on the street. You'll find all of your fuel trims swinging negative. What you have done is correct for a transient error in a steady state model - I admit I did think you knew better lol. But everyone falls into that trap at one time or another. You must operate the engine as steady as possible to gather error data. The reason dynamic airflow exists, particularly the prediction logic, is due to the fact that large transients are not able to be discretely characterized - too many moving variables. So any time you correct the VVE or the MAF, it must be steady, smooth, long period averages of data.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Not true, have proved it multiple times. Steady state cannot be a viable way to tune transient when you see that the factor shifts heavily on transient, the video shows that when going from a steady state to WOT and the data lines up without issue. Doesn't matter if it is a 300 hp or 1300 hp setup, it works the same, this is an immutable fact that I have shown before.

[@anasasisxenophontis]

@@GoatRopeGarage Problem is, you're not doing anything to the transient calibrations. All you did was mess with the steady state stuff, things that are necessary and will cause problems elsewhere. See what I mean...

[@3madeamps]

will the epa stop tuners ????

[@JimBob-wy7tl]

They have already hammered down on some diesel shops in Houston. Trying to put them out of business, some they already have.

[@3madeamps]

@@JimBob-wy7tl fucking dems !!!!!

[@vortecturbo]

🖕🏿🖕🏿🖕🏿theepa!

[@matthewsetley8748]

Has anyone verified if this is working?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Used it today, been using it for the last month on both the Z06 and the Superado

[@matthewsetley8748]

@@GoatRopeGarage looking up the math tomorrow!....in a few hrs

[@RobsHouse]

@@GoatRopeGarage I just tried it on my cammed Z06 today, and it's working on my car as well. Verified by just looking at the short term and long term averages independently after a tuning session, and it's definitely improved.

[@isidrosevier1125]

I swear you said fellatio when you said flow ratio 1.

[@pcmfrenzy1089]

I wish you had of just put the Math in the contents of this video. But here's the problem, you brain....does it ever shut off? LOL Once I get this math setup I'm so gonna try it. Now what about COT, and such. Normally I turn all this off.....?!?

[@GoatRopeGarage]

It wouldn't make sense in the details, to much random stuff going on, easier to just download the files! You are active, hell, you are going to end up being a moderator so what are you complaining about?! lol

[@marcinpohl3264]

It's not new, I did it back in 2004.

[@GoatRopeGarage]

Elaborate, given how that parameter doesn't exist on those ECMs

[@phdtuning]

Can do a VE calc from maf or wideband on gen 3, but he didn't do this lol

[@flatlandkid]

Didn't expect to see a redhardsupra here 👀

[@anasasisxenophontis]

@@flatlandkid I believe he prefers redsoftlexus now

[@GoatRopeGarage]

@@phdtuning I did a video on that a few years ago and talked about how it was possible but wasn't a viable path for a good tune