DPS Players Are TRASH

[@ThatGaudyFox]

As someone who mains DPS almost exclusively in this game: It really is all about practicing your rotation and knowing the overall "cadence" of a fight. If you put in the effort of learning how a fight flows and in what general order to prioritize your button presses, you'll do solid damage. Optimization can push you further beyond into "Stellar DPS" territory, but as a general rule nobody's going to demand that you do OBSCENE numbers. PUGs just want *reasonable* numbers, and reasonable numbers are VERY easy to reach with a little effort and time investment. I promise the game's a LOT more fun when you're pushing yourself to do better on a class you truly, genuinely love and click with. I was originally intimidated by how fast-paced rotations were in GW2 when I first started playing, but I put in the effort to learn, pushed myself to optimize as best I could and eventually got to the point where I was the World's Top Deadeye in QtP a couple of patches back earlier this year. Getting better at the game is not only entirely doable, it feels *good*. You should want to do better not just because it makes things smoother for everyone else, but because it makes *you* feel good and accomplished about something.

[@Royal.Grand.Majesty]

Totally agree with Nike, but only for Co-ordinated groups and CMs. For high end, Co-ordinated group environment, bosses with more DPS Checks would be able to weed out most of the low performers. How-ever in a pug-group environment and non CMs I would be totally against this unless there's DPS Checks involved. If you are able to complete content, even though at a slower pace, I personally think it's fine. Other-wise GW2 would become just like WoW, where every-one is kicking people left, right and center. In the end it's up to the Commander to set what rules they want for their squad. If a Comm wants an experienced group with fast clears, then they should specify their requirements in LFG, and if a low performing player joins knowingly then a kick is justified.

[@NikeonaBike]

All dps pugs in strikes and raids are bad but imo usually only a few fall below the mendoza line where their dps is so bad that they do less than half the damage of the top player. If multiple people do, it might be easier to just suck it up and live with it.

[@ryan2415]

My take was always if boon dps is doing more damage than dedicated dps, then they are failing. Some boon builds have been exceptions, but in general it works.

[@MelaonTwitch]

Sorry I can't hear you over the sound of my keyboard noises while I'm top dps on every boss and doing 0 mechanics uga booga krungo sabetha proximity bombs go brrrrrr

[@NanzoGonzo]

It is worrying to see an alac/quick dps outperforming half the dps when I'm pugging Also when the dps are crickets for roles like slubs, matriarch, lamp, etc

[@rafaelteles4161]

You can do whatever the hell you want (in your private static club). Pugs? C'mon dude, if you can't stand a low dps because someone is doing a second run of the boss, just quit it yourself

[@antoniocorbachomatthes1629]

I played wow many years, and that was normal, if the DPS wasn't reaching a DPS amount, was kicked. Anyways, it was preferable to have someone making enough dps and didn't die, that someone breaking the DPS meters, but dying often. Dead DPS=no dps

[@xeri6760]

There are usually 6 DPS per squad so its usually easier to just put up with 1 or 2 mediocre or bad players. As you said, alac and quick are binary (you have it or your don't) and their inability to do their job is felt more. The other thing is that power creep is so bad in this game now that even if someone is doing half the DPS they should be doing, it's usually not perceived to be a problem because it's still fine enough to clear the content. The only exception to this of course would be certain CM encounters. You are not alone.. I have seen this problem too. I don't know if it's because there are a lot of new players or if its because the game is so easy now that no one takes it seriously anymore. Maybe both. It's still annoying though.

[@NikeonaBike]

This issue with the "power creep" point is that it applies to Quickness and Alac too. We can clear content with 50% alac uptime with ease, so why be mad about bad alac? the issue is people are less tolerant of bad alac players than bad dps, and my position is they absolutely shouldn't be.

[@juanpunch2793]

If everyone played like the bottom 2 dps because "we clear it anyway", the chance to kill it anway will decrease significantly because the fight will take a lot longer. Best example is slothasaur. Once a run isn't finished by the time shroom 4 is up, the chance to wipe is greatly increased because slubs and expanding poisons are everywhere. Sure, if everyone is experienced with the mechanics, a 2m30s sloth kill is as secure as a 6 minute sloth kill, but almost always low dps players are not familiar with mechanics.

[@torreyrg42]

As a completely trash dps player I actually think that bar is well placed. I think if I do less than half the dps of the other dps players in my subgroup then I’m essentially leeching, like if I died to the first mechanic and the rest of the group carried. To clarify when I run in experienced groups as pure dps my total contribution is within 6% of the top pure dps. If it’s less than that then the boon-dps is outflanking me.

[@devilous90]

Louder for the redditors in the back!

[@NikeonaBike]

If this gets posted to reddit I will be flamed to oblivion.

[@rgentry9]

The reason why dps players aren't held accountable as much as others is that lack of dps isn't as noticeable as lack of the other roles, a bad dps player can hide among good dps players and never be found out if it weren't for arcdps. And among the conflict averse groups, pointing out bad dps is seen as the most toxic thing to point out. Plus, lack of dps is the least likely thing that you'll wipe for except for a couple of encounters and is the easiest to make up for if you lack it.

[@NikeonaBike]

"bad dps is seen as the most toxic thing to point out" is that fair? why is pointing out bad quickness less toxic fair?

[@rgentry9]

It's not fair, but that's how it is. On the other hand, if the player is providing quickness and is doing more damage than the healers, they're less likely to be called out for low dps than actual dps players.

[@meowmageddon]

@@NikeonaBike it's easy for me, as a herald to keep quickness, might, fury, and whatever else on 100% of the time.. and all I have to do is stand there (ofc I DPS too, but just making a point.) It's not hard to keep 100% quickness on the classes that can. I guess this is where that comes from. DPS can slide, idk. I think everyone should be called out or at least asked if they know what they're doing, and show them make sure they know. Most likely they're just lazy and looking for free rides.

[@SixJish]

One thing that needs to be taken into account is latency. I play on NA from OCE, and I have a constant disadvantage, meaning I can only do about 75% dps. Just something to remember.

[@robbieh9873]

You might think that, but you can definitely hit very close (95%+) to bench with 200+ ping.

[@PeteraPander]

I think part of the problem is how you witness a lack of support compared to a lack of dps. With a lack of support you drop boons and depending on the boon you imediatly see it (like quicknees and alac) and with missing heals you die except when you take more damage then needed. You only see a lack of dps when you fail the boss via enrage or failing to skipa mechanic. If the failed mechanic doesnt kill anybody or make you lose dps people dont realy care that much. i think (too?) many people have the opinion: unless it's a stressfull clownfiesta to kill the boss some fails/low dps are fine.

[@NikeonaBike]

i agree. Everybody notices bad quickness but bad dps is way less visible. My point is that if you are try-hard enough to kick one, you should kick both.

[@sumpwa]

The best part about playing support builds is your DPS doesn't matter as much, but upkeeping boons does, which can be easier for certain players.

[@GweniswasntTaken]

Bdps is cozy. I would actually recommend it for beginners, especially builds that have a very easy way to apply their boons. You're contributing to the squad even if you're mediocre at pushing buttons, you're not responsible for the survival of the group and you rarely get picked for mechanics (stuff like slothasor mushrooms is almost always handled by the dps players)

[@marc-antoinefrechettelapla4500]

I like your proposition. I don't kik people for it, but it bugs me when I see most of our dps boon players do more dps than the dps. The rule of 50 makes sense and is always adapted to the current group

[@Italian00b]

Hi, what's the name of the dps meter?

[@mayam.3240]

Currently I'm getting fed up with the "hi dps"-players which jump right in whenever I start to lfg only for specific roles. I used not to care enough about that in the easier daily content, even through it's rude of them to jump the line. But lately it feels like for whatever reason THOSE players are getting worse and worse. It feels like ~80% of them do not even reach the very average pug boondps numbers.🤔

[@illsz]

There's nothing elitist about holding people accountable for doing the job they're there to do, and that definitely applies to DPS.

[@waynelangins11]

Well, part of the difference is that its so incredibly easy to have good boon uptime. Like comparing two builds I played in the last balance patch (haven't really bothered to learn anything in current balance patch). dagger/axe + hammer spellbreaker vs quickness herald. On herald, all you have to do is turn on some upkeep skills and boom you pulse out quickness, use the gs aoe skill off cd and you'll have good pug dps. Like seriously, 10 mins of practicing and I'm ready to provide 100% quickness uptime. hammer spellbreaker on the other hand. I spent a couple hours practicing that rotation at the golem, best I hit was 35k (food,utility, no infusions), and the bench was 40+k. So 10 minutes of practice and I'm hitting 100% of the quickness uptime I should have. Hours of practice for 87% of the dps I should have.

[@SvenWM]

i think you agree that getting above 20k dps is easy then?

[@waynelangins11]

@@SvenWM to be clear, are you asking about breaking 20k at golem or at any given boss fight? I'm guessing you mean golem, but I want to be clear before I answer.

[@marmeus]

Most people will say "why bother" even with absolute trash dps bosses falls quick nowadays

[@BittahDemon]

Kinda of out of topic. But, how did you get your arc window to display data like that? It's much more readable than I've been able to tweak

[@N7xVoss]

When I did command back in the day like several months ago. I just don't tend to kick anyone unless they are being toxic in the chat. I think one exception so far was a player who didn't understand English on KO and we needed a reset but they wouldn't listen. In pugs for strikes that is I have never really commanded a raid before. Usually, I did host IBS ez 3 and Junk and KO. Never really had/ran into a problem in Pugs that a boon player is like lacking and if there was a time I recall people swapping and come to think of it no one really says anything about DPS players as long as they do more than 5k I am happy then again those strikes I listed above I would say are some of the easiest in the game. But I do see your point not a whole lot of the time people question DPS players instead they look to the boon table and healing first. Nowadays I don't do PvE/strikes I mainly roam in WvW but I was doing Wing 1 raid, arcdps installed (I don't have it anymore), Power specter! xD and got 15k dps if I recall correctly I couldn't believe it because on my guardian I hit 12k one time. I know I am not the best dps player and haven't dedicated time/training I just play more for fun and I have some understanding what or how my build needs to be played. I try to make sure I am 8-10k+ damage range. But still that is really low for a lot of groups IMO and that is kind of why I prefer pvp over pve stuff nowadays I don't really have to worry about that in a sense. I just rely on myself/build/knowledge to overcome one enemy player or two.

[@tubadude-2269]

clearly dps as a role isnt as necessary to complete content if the support is doing their job properly, just gotta fill em out and not be totally out of control bad... which makes you think that if they were better dps in the first place, maybe the supports wouldnt be as good as they are now. Maybe it really is time for a lil pushback against dps.

[@thehunattila1]

Completely agreed. It's only fair that dps players are judged equally. I'd much rather put a new player on a support (and have with my friends) than on a dps because, even though their dps may be lower than it should, they are at least contributing through boons so long as they are alive. A dps player doing half or a third of what they should be doing is simply an issue. Arc is available and low intensity builds for every spec that do well over 50% of the bench are available. There is no excuse. It's lazy and rude to other people's time when you are in an instance group. As for what percentage for the cutoff? Half seems fair, but at a minimum of 1/3 of the average of the top 2 or 3 dps players and you should get the boot immediately with an brief explanation and link to a simple rotation/build guide. If such a player takes offense to that, said player does not need to be attempting group content with strangers. I don't believe Nike is an elitist even though he jokes about it and neither am I. It's simply rude to be a burden to others by not doing the bare minimum to learn what you are doing when in a team environment.

[@SeK114]

I really try not to kick people. If the team is somewhat able to carry, I just proceed. But it DOESNT change the fact that no one is "entitled" to being carried. The group has the right to require that its members pull their own weight. A funny thing that is usually said is that its easier to carry a bad dps over bad supports, which is more often than not a true statement, but bad DPS means that those with the heavier burden will have to bear that burden longer. Longer fight mean more rounds of every dangerous mechanic that the low dps guy wont have to deal cause "its not his role".

[@mandodelorian4668]

I expect *most* bad DPs players have no idea they're actually bad, ignorance is bliss and all that.

[@luca7675]

Its way worse for the squad if one subteam has 50% q or a uptime then one dps not hitting high numbers. As long as you beat the fight, all is well. Specially for pugs. Qdps is also so much easier then full dps, specially with herold, it cant even be compared.

[@luca7675]

Most adps and qdps are also universally effective in all fights. The performance of a dps class/build is much more dependant on the fight. If i only have a fully equipped scurge and virtuoso but the Boss jumps around a lot, well tough luck. Your dps is not gonna be great.

[@NikeonaBike]

You contradict your first sentence with the second. You haven't thought this through completely.

[@luca7675]

@@NikeonaBike in what way to i contradict myself?

[@GweniswasntTaken]

The "as long as you beat the fight all is well and good mentality" is how you end up with a community wide trend towards stagnation

[@luca7675]

@@GweniswasntTaken If you read my comment again you might notice im talking mostly about pugs.

[@GreenLarsen]

Generally agree, naturally taking any mechanics done by a dps player into account. Like jumping canons on sab. For guild runs its another thing, atleast for me, there I play with people I like to talk to and if some of them need some carry, then whatever. But for pugging, pls do dps if that's your job (training runs etc. naturally exempt)

[@NikeonaBike]

Insofar as the cannons go, you can always compare one cannon player to another.

[@GreenLarsen]

@@NikeonaBike It was mainly meant as an ex. but still yes and no. Since 1 sett of canons fits better with sab being on the platform and the other get all the mini bosses. All that said, it can also be a dps ressing others or doing something else useful. What I mean is mainly to not stirred yourself blind on a dps number. That said, as I also mentioned in my main post, I do believe that lack of dps is just a valid reason to kick as lack of boons

[@chrisyoung2596]

can't agree more, pure boss dps is the most braindead role in the group in every encounter, if u cant do dmg, bruv, then u are leeching

[@rulotron]

I think it is only fair, it doesn't take much time to hit the golem

[@oliver8848]

Considering every encounter can handily be beaten of everyone does 20k dps, i see no reason to kick anyone as long as they manage that. A group with 1 bad dps will perform far better than a group with 1 bad quick/alac

[@Palmecia22]

When i used to play FFXIV before, people used the same dumb mentality of "Yeah DPS are worthless/noob class cause heal and tank are way more important" meanwhile boss encounter on this game have a 10 minutes enrage timer, i can't count the amount of time we got stuck with my mates with group that does all the mechanics well but never clear the boss encounter due to a sheer lack of DPS, unlike people didn't even have the right stuff or anything, just not comiting a lot to learning their rotation and the optimal way to DPS (We can lock our raid PF to an item level requirement, when you ask for almost max ilvl and you see enrage in FFXIV you know for fact the issue is the player and not the gear). But heyyy DPS is easy, heeyyyyy dps is for noob etc. Meanwhile DPS might actually have the harder job (In FFXIV EVERYONE does mechanic in a party of 8 : 2 tank, 2 heal, 4 DPS). Also on an almost comical note it's the same game where parses/dps meters are banable for even mentioning other people DPS meanwhile their DPS can be the reason you fail a mechanic, meet the enrage timer end or clear the fight just on the edge of the enrage.

[@deanwong6565]

Simple. Holding DPS players accountable, you need to consider 3 things. 1. Catch 22. Need expérience to improve but no opportunity to do so. 2. Mechanics. Do you want half benchmarks for the whole duration or à dead 100% benchmark DPS. 3. Revive and rôles. You want DPS to help with revives or do mechanics, then proceed to holding them to account for not doing DPS? I have been shamed à few times, to the point i stop doing anything but DPS in pubs. No more revive, nor rôles, nor CC.

[@Miranox2]

That applies to every role, not just DPS. His point is about double standards with DPS in particular.

[@marc-antoinefrechettelapla4500]

And if you are reviving the team to the point your dps is bad, your healer may be to blame or also the other players for inting xp. I also prioritize reviving, and if my team is somewhat decent, I'm not that affected by it

[@deanwong6565]

@ both. Let us define "bad" DPS. I do on average with my SpB 18 - 22k dps depending on the boss. Some bosses, even less (12k). It took me 6 months (i started in april) to get the gear, learn the class and mechanics to reach my current level. Also if you put me in wing 5-7 i will never reach 15k dps as i dont know the mechanics. So what, am i consider bad DPS? You're going to kick me from the squad ? Also show me à video in which you help with the cannon in wing 1 or help clear mushrooms in wing 2 and still do 20k DPS. Those are just some examples of rôles which only pure DPS do. Never would à commander send à boonDPS to do those mechanics. Lastly there are those who play virtuoso and come top on DPS everytime. I really cannot think of à reason why so. Lucky for me, my guild's top virtoso players are very modest, unlike those i do encounter in pubs.

[@marc-antoinefrechettelapla4500]

@deanwong6565 First, sorry if I offended you, that wasn't my intention. You are right here. Some fight if the dps are doing 10k and even less, I'm totally fine because that was a mechanical boss. Canon is a good example where I also do not do a lot of dps, but I don't think any commander would be frustrated at the canon people if they did canon correctly just because finding someone that does the mechanics is painful. I think everyone can agree that a dps doing mechanics is not just a dps like boon dps are not just dps. Personally, I prefer someone like you who helps res others and doesn't die than greed for dps. I may be wrong, but I hope that Nike was saying to compare role for role (considering that dps mechanics is another role) with 50%. If we take gorceval in pug, you can expect the best dps to do more than 30k dps. Then 15k is not good but okay. And I wouldn't kik anyone near 12k, I would suggest to do walls, but that's me. But, I would undertand if other comm ask the one that doesn't do their job correctly to leave. Thus, why having a barem like Nike's proposition can be good for setting expectations.

[@deanwong6565]

@@marc-antoinefrechettelapla4500 Oh, I am not offended, just offering some balance in this arguement. It is too late for me. I've learned to avoid voluntering for anything in end game content because some elitist A-hole will always claim how we newbies are leeching. I rather sit staring at the boss while the commander ask for volunteer then to offer my service because I don't want to risk getting kick. Sorry what, the healer is in a downstate! Sorry, but I rather fail the encounter than to be single out for doing DPS on the lower end of the group. My 6 months of Guild War 2 experience have been shaped by these peoples. In raids, which I am doing only for legendary armor, I will only bring my virtuoso. Also she is armed with "thousand cuts" rather than signet. CC bosses it not my problem. Doing top DPS is.

[@Aranimda]

It all depends on expectations. In the end, it is the commander who owns the group and makes the rules. I'm totally fine of having a few less performing players in my groups. I'm in a guild where nobody gets kicked. We either clear content together or wipe together. I prefer groups that leave some room for mistakes or less than ideal performance. Just because it is more friendly. However, in PuGs there needs to be a line somewhere. You have to respect the decisions of commanders to kick players. It's their group after all. Some players can be terrible. Some commanders can be d*cks. But it is their group. If you get kicked with a reason: Evaluate if you think the kick is just and try to improve. If you get kicked without communication: Get over it and try a different group.

[@Paint-with-your-brains]

I have definitely hit my skill ceiling in the game. I will definitely be fine with dipping on a group so they can get someone better if I know I am having a bad day and there is no way they can carry me. Most days I can mostly hit the right buttons at the right time. I will try and win a game, whatever winning means for what game and what part of the game I am playing.

[@ardri1166]

I don't know anything about raids (in this game), but how does a xDPS do more mechanically than a DPS? They just do their rotation like anyone else. No need to glorify the quick herald for using their 2 buttons or the adps for using theirs. Are there bad DPS? Yes of course. Are there bad xDPS or bad healers? Of course. Does anyone deserve a kick? Only when they refuse to follow mechanics. If you want only top parse DPS in your group, don't PUG. Simple as that.

[@Akria1999]

Amazing video! Absolutely 100% agree. Watching your channel gives me a breath of fresh air.

[@lunarwist5655]

Teapot said this best a few years ago, "DPS is the most chronically unskilled role in the game." I think the problem is that a lot of challenging content in GW2 has no timer and soft-enrage mechanics typically don't exist in the normal modes anymore. There's no reason for players to perform when the content asks so little of them.

[@padarousou]

As someone who just started playing a month ago and have never had a problem with being top 1-2 dps i agree there is no excuse for a dps to have low dmg

[@pecros]

it's mostly because it's much easier to keep up 90-100% boon duration than to reach 90% DPS benchmark. You need to practice and remember rotations to reach those dps numbers, but getting 100% alac on mech or 100% quick on herald doesn't require any practice or much of a rotation. So its just easier for the casual people in pugs

[@padarousou]

@@pecros I guess I was lucky since I started doing lab runs a week after I started and you learn rotations very quickly there as you are almost constantly in combat. I assume a lot of people also dont run ArcDPS so they dont even know how much their damage is falling behind compared to what it could be

[@pecros]

@padarousou also, Lab DPS isn't "DPS" most people are just tagging mobs to get loot, no ones really pushing DPS numbers there

[@padarousou]

@@pecros Idc what most ppl do I go hard in lab runs. Thats the point is it lets you know how much dps u can can do both on bosses and grouped mobs. After a few hours u can get any rotation down pretty good even for weaver its muscle memory at this point even with a 40 combo rotation

[@ArladkGW2]

@@padarousou If everyone ran full berserkers in lab the mobs would die so fast that only a couple of people would get drops per mob killed (as opposed to everyone). It is therefore in the best interest of the group to have low DPS to maximize ToT bags. Lab farming =/= a DPS race. By killing mobs fast, you are essentially griefing your squadmates. Regardless, the avg. DPS in organized instanced PvE content is abysmal, but that has nothing to do with the lab (where ppl usually unequip gear or choose non-dmging stat combos and traits).

[@essdee800]

Good stuff boss man

[@kevinluu7024]

depends on the content mechanics. I remember i was dps and kicked after Sloth W2 cuz i was chosen as fixated 3 time in a row so my dps was shit af

[@davilg007]

I somewhat disagree, keeping boon uptime is 100% brainless. Perfecting a dps rotation takes a lot more practice. And people don't really care about offensive boon support's dps as much, since they're expected to do low damage. I've had a buddy start raiding with me recently as a q herald, he does very poor dps but no one cares, since he can upkeep quickness by pressing 1 button. I see people flame pure dps players a LOT more often.

[@NikeonaBike]

"perfecting" a rotation is too high of a standard. If you cant even do 50% of the DPS of the top DPS in the squad you arent trying at all.

[@TheShugoBR]

on the video, no one is doing the cannon mechanics it seems also, i wouldn't mind if we have 80% time quickness, alac, or any other buff, if is possible to kill the boss if the person isn't a complete brain dead and can adjust so the group can clear the content, is ok for me if the person, healer, boon provider, or wharever don't do what they said they would do, and blame others for wharever, that is a kick

[@n1cemaiden879]

It's up to the com to set expectations

[@LootHunt]

I'm playing game modes I guess. In PVE raids the newbs are the DPS? wow. In PVP dps is the hardest part. Even so, there no way I'm going to stand around in raid versus environment, totally predictable, no variance, no human behind the boss. Maybe someday the human can be the raid boss and it will be fun for me.

[@juanpunch2793]

Your team mates are the real raid bosses

[@fozz3498]

Specifically if you play 1 spec - you literally have no idea lol.

[@cjkayzen184]

Easy. Because you would kick the whole squad most of the time 😂

[@Paint2D_]

As a support player I have to say comparing boon uptime and DPS is somewhat unfair as I can always just add more boon duration and get higher uptime, maybe that's why I have higher standards for myself and other supports in my groups and anything under 98% uptime is unacceptable IMO. For DPS players my standards are very low just do more damage then qdps and I won't complain but many people still fail this low bar.

[@MrGoldbeere]

First sorry for my English. If you cannot understand something, please ask, I try to correct it. Second, my original post was way too harsh and was lacking connection, but I feel connected with you. In the end we play the same game and enjoy it. In addition, to judge you is not a good way to send you a message. So I edited it largely and deleted hopefully all the judgements. In the last months the rate of inappropriate behavior in low-req LFGs (

[@NikeonaBike]

good lord

[@DeltaGW2]

On that note, did you end up joining and getting a kill? If not we can try to organise something, there were numerous people who didn't. As for me explaining why you were kicked, a lot of people were far less understanding in this. The issue starts at the definition of "experienced". Experienced could mean, having it killed once, having it killed once (including CM), or having seen the fight a few times, it could also mean to have done it so often that you are very comfortable. This definition is so different from one person to another, that I got attacked A LOT for the same treatment you got (kick + explanation why + even offers to join another time). The core issue I see within the game as you stated as well, is managing expectations. But that is incredibly hard on a short LFG post. Even if people are willing to read a very precise LFG post, the majority of people won't. What we'd really need to solve that is a proper rating of players or way to express skill. But then yet again people will feel excluded/gatekept because of actual skill discrepancy. Which is way better than an almost arbitrary requirement, but still. Let's say you're a Top 70% player and I look for other Top 70% player, a lot of people will still feel gatekept when they are a Top 60% player and aren't allowed in. Bit of a rambling comment, so definitely not very well thought through.

[@MrGoldbeere]

@DeltaGW2 I got the kill

[@MrGoldbeere]

@@NikeonaBike I edited the post to be way less harsh, deleting (hopefully) all the judgements and some generalizations. o/

[@hollowzangetsu]

That's because DPS don't get picked in the first place this meta . only quick, alac, heal or tank are needed in any grp specially raids .I've been finding it really really hard to find grps as a dps virtuoso specially in raids because evryone only picks heal . alac or quickness , keep in mind that I do at least 32000 cdps ...Don't forget also that gw2 is a game to be enjoyed not for fighting critics like urs .This type of mentality has let most new players give up even trying to find grps mate cuz of always being kicked .Now explain to me how anyone can learn the game if not given the chance

[@juanpunch2793]

Make your own group

[@petardinjo]

Ok but if dps meter is not "allowed" how people doing DPS can follow their rotation and know what dps they are providing. You can ask that question to ANET not players. Players either do their rotations or don't. But if you don't let 10k dps person into raid, when or how did he know what is he doing right or wrong ? Maybe again ask ANET what was/is their vision about statement - group carried you, you suck. Ok if he suck that does that means he is not allowed to try ? It seems like dps players provide shit dps on purpose, like yeah lets' go raid and afk or die in fire on purpose..

[@NikeonaBike]

DPS meters are allowed. There really isnt an excuse.

[@sunnydlite-t8b]

Its not anets problem. Its the playerbases problem to not be toxic. Stop blaming everyone else for your nonsense.

[@petardinjo]

Didn't know they somehow allowed it ? But in most casual mmo out there out of all mmos out there, people are interesting in sweaty numbers ? that's straight WoW mentality and I really don't care to make any excuse, I stopped playing GW2 in a moment where I found out I need 250g for flying mount where I had like 9gold and said - so long... @@NikeonaBike

[@petardinjo]

sorry mr purple parses. I didn't recognized you. @@sunnydlite-t8b

[@nosc_c]

Because buffs are what give your whole party the full extent of their potential. Also, a good DPS player is nowhere near as valuable as a good support player.

[@kesamek8537]

In my country we have a saying, f*ck off back to Queensdale, and if you keep typing this to pug dps players it helps increase the population of WoW Classic. Thanks for listening #BlizzardMarketing

[@siegfurd]

based

[@jethrojangles9541]

every instance of this argument, ever, just winds up at: "Ultimately, if you're forming a PUG you need to clearly communicate the expected standard, and joiners need to meet it" which is right but also boring, so idk, have at it lol edit: actually surprised how much pushback there is on the comments tho, i mean "DPS is not a dump role of low importance" should not be controversial. it's hardly some blanket call for greater elitism under all circumstances

[@jpHasABadHandle]

Yes, I am!

[@susperdis]

mans really lost in his new class fetish that can do 30s q overcap, do cannons and still outdps pugs with 0 bd investment in gear

[@NikeonaBike]

I play dps most of the time

[@khxweichafe7246]

my boy u know i love u so much but, man the gold age of elitism raid group and speed runs of dungeon fractals and raids already die, the game is so fucking player friendly than don´t even matter get mad on players who run full nomad or trash builds, 10 dumb guys with the 40% dps of the benchmarks can beat every boss... and that is why this game become so trash, i always remember my old days when gold per hour use to be your 8 paths of dungeons+ fractals few dailays of pvp and smash noobs at wvw.

[@Tynrova]

DPS is where players learn the fight, this take is so elitist it becomes cringe. If you're pugging it out, expect some casuals to show up. I come from a place where I heal/tank in other games but whenever I bring a new player in they start out a new fight on DPS to learn the mechanics and then over time their DPS raises because they are focusing less on not dying and just doing damage while instinctively doing the mechanics. Of course, there are those who never see that improvement either from not putting in the effort or simply not being as good at the game but even then, comes with LFG.

[@LAZYLOFTY]

you're thinking of a training group not a Pug. If you are bringing a brand new person into a random lfg in the exp tab you are just as responsible and should also be kicked.

[@derpzone7425]

take it from my experience but its generally easier to learn fights as a boon dps than a dps because most of the time as a boon dps you arent given mechanics or else boon uptime suffers, this allows you to see the fight and you have an excuse for naturally doing lower dps because you are providing essential boons.

[@dixieflatline1189]

“Failed” “kicked” “trash”? Someone didn’t have their nap today? 🤣 Some better behaviours in pug high end content would be nice overall. This starts with the commanders & vets. Don’t be dicks….. Have a nice day 👍

[@gordonbetts2053]

Cause this is GW not WOW. Leave the Whining and kicking where it belongs. Everyone goes on about how great friendly and helpful the community is in GW. Not kicking and maybe helping the person that doesn’t do good enough for you might help. If they are fully to blame for you failing maybe help them…. If it took you 2mins longer to complete too fricken bad now your just whining.

[@devilous90]

"nooo people who actually try to play good should play WoW, we only want wimps who won't even try noooo"

[@Rsjabber_]

you don't sound friendly at all... go back to wow?

[@OkayyyIGetIt]

This game is dead so who cares.

[@NikeonaBike]

and yet here we are

[@836823477842]

I would announce myself to the group as a "dps-noob", so people know I'm still learning, hopefully not kicking me

[@SILKYSMOOTH30FPS]

What's trash is this 11+ years old game that is supported by $5000 Welfare checks twice a year.