Turn Based Strategy HOT TAKES Ahead

[@Gelwain]

Darkest Dungeon being S-tier is the farthest thing from a hot take. Absolutely amazing game; infinitely replayable, an excellent storyline, excellent strategy, amazing mods; the list goes on and on. A no-brainer, and good on you for acknowledging that its absolutely a TRPG. You can be a TRPG and a dungeon-crawler. It actually makes me laugh how similar your thoughts are to my own regarding FFT/TO/SoW and DD. Make sure you finish Fell Seal: the plot gets really, REALLY good towards the end, and you can absolutely break the classes in the best of ways around end-game.

[@DancingDragonGames]

Hey thanks for the shout out! Helps us stay motivated for the next SoW entry!

[@TitaniumLegman]

Oh absolutely! I can't wait to see what else you guys cook up. 👀

[@StewNWT]

Triangle Strategy NEEDS character portraits for dialogue boxes

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

No it doesn't

[@redkenpachi4748]

Yes it does

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

@@redkenpachi4748 not really.

[@casadogaspar]

Totally!! Was the first thing I noticed I was like "wtf, where the character image?"

[@loffredabernardes]

No Battle Brothers on the list? One of the best and more challenging ones out there imo. Cool list thou

[@rustanilagan1526]

this and it's beautiful spawn wartales

[@loffredabernardes]

@rustanilagan1526 ohh yeah! Wartales is a really good one too! But there's something about the brutality and tactical depth of combat in BB that very few games manage to do. I just love it and played it for way too many more hours than I like to admit lol

[@SeemsLogical]

Battle Brothers is a great game, one of my most played. The writing in that game is underrated, it really sets the tone of the game world. And if you enjoyed Battle Brothers you should also enjoy a game called Wartales. Same concept, roaming mercenary band but the graphics are higher and the world a standalone world designed by the developer as opposed to being a randomly generated one. There's strict classes with abilities to give distinct "subclasses" to each build. And unique weapons as well to give more variety. Battle Brothers does it better but Wartales is different enough that it should scratch that itch when you get tired of Battle Brothers.

[@EmissaryOfSmeagol]

Valkyria Chronicles might not look it, but they are very similar to srpgs like Fire Emblem. I recommend VC1 and VC4 at least.

[@sielklavar]

I think the problem with most of the arguments for Darkest Dungeon is that those are the framework for a turn based rpg in general. I mean every point you made about the title aside from dungeon crawler and the randomized team mates can be said about Final Fantasy 5 as well.

[@PsytheZero]

Absolutely mental to call DD a strategy RPG. The one single defining feature that separates a strategy RPG from a standard turn-based RPG is a stage that you move around on during combat. And he knows it, too. The only reason he's calling it one is so he can justify shoehorning it into his strategy RPG content, such as this tier list. I do agree with it being an S tier game, though.

[@TitaniumLegman]

@PsytheZero seeing as how other people in the comments agree with me saying it's a strategy RPG, AND it's tagged as such on Steam, you may not be as right as you think.

[@PsytheZero]

@@TitaniumLegman Here are some other games tagged on steam as strategy RPGs: Black Desert, Dragon Age, Persona, Crusader Kings and DOTA 2. Those are community submitted tags, they don't mean anything. As far as people in youtube comments agreeing with you, I guess that also means the earth is flat and birds are government controlled drones.

[@StartledJC]

Anecdote about my recent experience trying Tactics Ogre for the first time - I initially saw trepidation around some of the mechanics in reborn and decided to play Let Us Cling Together. A week in, I was liking the game, but I hated the UI, I couldn't figure out how to grind training maps in the overworld, and thus turtling was the only strategy that worked. My biggest problem: how the hell was I meant to prepare my team comp when I can't see the map and the enemies??? I realized Reborn fixed literally all of my problems with LUCT, got a copy and haven't looked back.

[@Galax94cz]

Since I was already brought to your channel, I am here just to say If you like Awakening, give a mod called Project Thabes a try, it honestly does many many MANY things to make the game 1000 times better, like for example NO ENEMY AMBUSHES, but just in general, rebalances the game, adds new objectives so it's not just rout/capture/arrive (For example, in the mission where you get Cordelia, Chrom is actually force paired with GREEN unit Emmeryn - yea I have no clue how he did that, and I actually know my way around in Paragon -, making him unable to pair up and the objective is to escort Emm to the other side of map instead of simple rout), there is genuinely so much amazing content in that mod it kinda feels like new game, new items, new weapons, new objectives, even 2 units that honestly should have been part of the game to begin with, new/rebalanced skills, new classes (Thematically fitting), characters having adjusted classes they have/pass down, new pairings (You can either play with or without the UGA that lets you pair up same sex pairings - child units still exist, It's MAGIC), including couple new Chrom pairings that honestly are amazing (Like Nowi, actually really sweet support) After playing the game with that mod I honestly cannot imagine going back to base game of Awakening since it just feels so much weaker then the original, obviously some of the balancing will never be like perfect but then again that game balance is kinda all over the place in first place, and I think this mod makes it more *interesting*, not better, not worse, interesting So yea, that is my two cents on that one Oh yea and and I am still annoyed that Unicorn Overlord is hard to mod cause I still absolutely want randomizer for that game cause that would be so much fun

[@jaynunya5136]

No love for invisible Inc, A turn based cyber punk stealth game.

[@TheAppleUploader]

Such a great game. I was hoping for a sequel

[@matthewfuhrken9835]

I'm surprised you haven't played Valkyria Chronicles (1 and 4 at least), as well as Aliens: Dark Descent. I LOVE that you have played FFTA and FFTA2, I've always wondered if you have since SO many weapon Icons and stuff in Tactics Ogre Reborn*, feels like they were taken directly from FFTA/A2. But those other 3 games above, I think you might like a ton! Another suggestion, Wildermyth! OMG the CHARM of that game is wonderful! and the gameplay is just great!

[@Overloaded45]

valkyria chronicles are fun but wayyyyyy too easy and lean on the tactics part to deserve a good spot compared to whats in this list.

[@gabetafoya3936]

Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely loved Triangle Strategy and sank so many hours into it, but my god the sheer amount of dialog and text between each battle is excruciating! Sometimes I would sit down to play for like an hour and wouldn’t even see a single battle.

[@rougemike]

>No Langrisser. Unironically Langrisser’s gacha game is one of the best SRPG’s I’ve ever played, with a LONG history of srpg’s behind me. Almost feels like they were intending to make a full release game and then late into production someone made them turn it into a gacha.

[@nicodalusong149]

This. I actually like the gacha. The only reason I stopped was that the game file got way too big for my phone's memory and I've had to start from scratch twice. I think the best fix was that you don't need to spend on recruiting soldiers as they're immediately refreshed every mission and through healing. That was the one thing I found mildly frustrating in the other games.

[@junrosamura2720]

You know the mobile game is a combination of all the console versions, right? This game was gacha from the start but it did a good job with content/events, using the IP music, however, the pull rates are pretty terrible. The power creep was slow and the fact that they added new items for older characters to make them relevant again is a nice touch you almost never see elsewhere. Unfortunately, the game has gotten stale I would say the global version will EOS in 2025. Only Chinese whales will keep it alive for another year or two.

[@lloyd011721]

i loved der langrisser for the snes. not really a fan of any newer langrisser titles though.

[@JackSmog]

Seeing as you're a turn based strategy guy that's also into 40k lore, but were disappointed by Chaos Gate, I would recommend taking a look at Warhammer 40k: Mechanicus. It's also a smaller effort, and it has its limitations, but MAN is it a blast to play. (Mechanicus 2 is coming out as well.) It also has the best 40k soundtrack to date. And that even includes Space Marine 2. Also, Wartales is a pretty solid TRPG/Mercenary management sim that is a lot of well-designed fun. A lot of people like Battle Brothers for a similar style game, but I think Wartales is the more fleshed out effort.

[@Azmodeus379]

Not sure if Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children counts for this list, but that would be my recommendation for what's next. Great list! I put a little more importance on story, so things like Darkest Dungeon and Unicorn Overlord may go down a tier for me, but overall really enjoyed watching and have a bunch of new games to check out!

[@Weedle4]

Amazing tier list! Love the balance of objective and subjective. Two good ones I didn’t see on here: Gloomhaven (~$30 on steam, hundreds of gameplay hours, fun with friends) Grand Guilds (wait for 90% sale ~$2 on Nintendo eShop, ~25 hours of gameplay, very fun ending, very value game, good mechanics). I think you’ll enjoy both of those Legman!

[@djtimes7891]

I understand the FE Fates pick is confusing to some but it’s my favorite SRPG mainly because of the Conquest gameplay. The map design that route has to offer will probably never be topped.

[@sinisterdesign]

Strongly agree! Conquest is peak Fire Emblem for map design, balance, and mechanics.

[@TheRabbit68]

Exactly Conquest was near perfect. Birthright on the other hand...

[@nicodalusong149]

I paused to look for SRW and couldn't find any of them. Now I'm even more curious where you'd place individual entries of SRW on this list. If you want to try Valkyria Chronicles, I would also suggest you try playing the older Sakura Wars games since they use the system that Valkyria Chronicles takes pointers from. VC is fun but the harder stages are genuinely hard. You're going to need to take a loss to scout out certain stages because they really require proper team comp and good turn by turn planning. Another series I'd suggest is Luminous Arc.

[@JurzGarz]

You might be interested in Expeditions: Rome. It’s a TRPG released in 2022, and as you might guess from the title, it’s set in Ancient Rome. Was one of my favorite games of that year. Really interesting if you want a TRPG in a historical setting instead of the standard fantasy or sci-fi.

[@lolimmune]

You know what i dont see here.. Front mission. Especially 3 *cough*

[@lordfunkatron9732]

Hey Leg man, have you ever played Vandal Hearts? It's one of those games buried on old hardware but it has quite a good reputation

[@TitaniumLegman]

I haven't, but I've always heard good stuff.

[@sinisterdesign]

Awesome. It makes me really happy that you rank Together in Battle so highly even in its early access state! Great motivation for me to keep plugging away on polish and adding the rest of the endgame content. ❤

[@stanm4410]

Glad to see Triangle Strategy and Unicorn Overlord both in the top tier along with the classics. I feel some Tactical RPG fans like to hold the classics in such high regard that they don't realize how many great additions we've had to the sub-genre in recent years. Triangle and Unicorn are very different gameplay wise to something like FFT or TO, but they still earn a top tier position imo.

[@TitaniumLegman]

@@stanm4410 big agree. I'm an old head myself, but it would be remiss of me to neglect modern classics like TS and UO

[@lawlyss]

28:32 Darkest Dungeon 2 going rogue ruined it for me. It’s not even really a strategy at this point.

[@Pakinov]

Man i'm a huge fan or SRPG's. There have been some recent games you SHOULD play as a fan of this genre because they are A or S tier for sure and I din't know about them since not long ago. 1) Our Adventurer's Guild (pure SRPG) 2) Horizon's Gate (SRPG with open world exploration. Also there are plentu of mods to play new runs) 3) Crystal project (this is a mix of SRPG and Final Fantasy, but play it, it's amazing) Solid tier list. Unicorn Overlod was a very cool concept but felt so easy it didn't require much strategy once you had your teams set up. Also if you haven't played I also recomend Bravely Default as an incredible game (the first one, not the second) Also, Battle Brothers Cheers!

[@Dread_Maximus]

Honestly, if you liked parts of wesnoth but didn't like the RNG aspects you might like Brigandine. It's also hex based and has zone of control, but you get to increase chance to hit off zone locking.

[@TitaniumLegman]

I have the latest one on Switch, been waiting for a chance to dive in.

[@nicholaslarson3778]

​@TitaniumLegman I just found out about Brigandine a week or so ago and I've been finding it to be super fun.

[@Dread_Maximus]

@@TitaniumLegman It's definitely a must play IMO. Not a lot of hex SRPGs hit that delicate balance with zone of control and freedom of movement(battle brothers is way too limiting while wesnoth is almost too freeform due to how high unit movement can get), but the brigandine games are the only ones I've played that've really scratched that itch for me.

[@Lordrevolution77]

My problem with Brigadine is that the first 4 rounds of every battle is you moving your units closer to the enemy. Just makes battles tedious when I'm juggling 20+ individual units.

[@Dread_Maximus]

@@Lordrevolution77 Fair. Definitely could've made the maps smaller if they just added pre-battle prep so you could put units where you want for both the defender and attacker.

[@tepasgame]

Have you tried onimusha tactics on gba? I havent tried it yet but I've heard good things about it and you dont need any knowledge of the onimusha series prior to playing. Also sayuki journey west on PS1. My brother keeps praising it all the time. Thank you for the tier list. Keep at it ❤

[@papersage69]

Honestly, just glad that Jeanne d’Arc is included. A fun favorite from my teens. B is a pretty fair ranking. But your assessment is pretty fair, the special units are for sure your powerhouses. There are some great characters that are not the transformation units though. The archers make good units and the axe wielding dog man is top tier as well. I’m hazy on the details though, it’s been a decade. But what I loved most in that game was setting up blitz turn for the special units. It was very satisfying to set up the dominoes and see them fall.

[@strugglingengineerstudent942]

I gotta say, seeing this tier list brought back a lot of memories for me and it was very nostalgic. Like the chaos gate I forgot how bad it was 😂. That being said I would love to get your thoughts on wild arms fx which was on psp, I don’t know if you’ve played it but I have really fond memories playing that game.

[@dragonore2009]

Since you have Final Fantasy Tactics in the list (thanks for that), have you ever tried the 1.3 Insane Difficulty Patch? If not, you need too, it makes the game far more challenging and much more balanced. The 1.3 version, you really need to plan out your attack, way more so then in Vanilla.

[@TitaniumLegman]

@@dragonore2009 I haven't ever done any modded content for FFT, but I'm certainly open to doing so

[@dragonore2009]

@@TitaniumLegman I'll say it like this. You and me, we can just roll through FFT like its nothing. With the1.3 patch though? You ain't going to to roll through FFT, it is legit hard. Vanilla, I don't really have to think much, maybe a couple battles perhaps it is the same for you, but with 1.3, you really really need to plan out your attack, you need to rely on buffs and debuffs way more so. It's challenging, but winning a battle is much more rewarding. Props to folks that can beat 1.3, I've gotten to chapter 3 and it just got too hard.

[@TitaniumLegman]

That does sound intriguing.

[@ErikMesserli]

Darkest Dungeon 2 had so much potential for me because I love roguelikes and teambuilding. However, I felt that unlike in the first game, I had basically no control over the run after setting up my team. Slog through multiple hours and many bossfights to arrive at the final boss of the second confession only to realize that I had completely the wrong team and not a snowball's chance in hell of not wiping. Expected. Coming up with a team comp to counter the boss. That's what I'm here for if I'm playing a teambuilding game. Having said team get wiped by basic enemies and surprise minibosses due to bad luck multiple times in a row, never making it back to the boss in multiple hours. That's just frustrating bullshit. Also the roguelike mode never felt like one because nothing you find feels impactful and you can't really react to anything anyway because your team is already locked in. It feels like the items are still balanced around picking your starting items from a pool like in DD1. Maybe I'll reinstall it when the new game mode releases, maybe that's what saves it.

[@TrigAlonso]

Curious about your thoughts on Valkyria. Thanks

[@dawgyv72]

Troubleshooters Abandoned Children? Hello!? Haha

[@soratheorangejuicemascot5809]

I am looking for Yggdra Union, Phantom Brave and Devil Survivor series. Still nice to that this tier list exists.

[@Lordrevolution77]

Is there anywhere you've posted the final list? Can't see it well.

[@naberiusbuster3489]

Putting FE4 (and UO) in S tier was a great moment, but putting Fates in the top tier instead of Radiant Dawn is a big misplay. Fates is 2 games + a DLC, so splitting it into 3 entries would have likely been a more palatable idea. Final Fantasy Tactics is a bit too old now for my taste to put it in the top tier. I concur with everyone else that you should get into the Valkyria Chronicles series. You are really missing out there. The Shining Forces games were what made the Genesis a far superior option over the SNES when it came to tactical JRPG goodness here in North America. Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen had to face off against Shining Force 1 & 2 by itself, and with the Sega CD you got access to Shining Force CD (a remake of the first 2 Game Gear games) as well, bringing it up to 4 vs 1. Surprisingly enough the 1st Langrisser game also got a localization for NA and you can also add Dark Wizard on the Sega CD to bring the total up to 6 to 1. Shining Force 1 is weird leveling and has a too much rough terrain issue (like the Spirit Forest in FE4 but so much worse. Book 1 of SFCD also has this issue too) that messes with pacing, but Shining Force 2 and the 2nd book of SFCD are really great games in general. Dark Wizard is also quite good. All the battles occur on the same world map in the style of your beloved FE4 and UO, and you can even go back to previous maps to finish up quests like in UO. Unlike in UO you actually do have to leave guards at your castles since the enemy will try to take them back off screen while you are advancing into enemy territory. The map music (for both the 4 playable "Lords" and enemy generals) is pretty solid/good (The base theme and combat theme aren't) but the combat animations are AWFUL and SLOW! Fortunately you can turn the combat animations (and by extension the combat theme) off. This might also be the only game where you can play as a powerful (he isn't bothered by the sun) shapeshifting Vampire for a "Lord", and you would be hard pressed to be more evil than that.

[@tonyturner5147]

Did you just include FFT and the PSP version as one version for this list?

[@gotaplanstan]

Oooooo this is gonna be fun! Just starting the video. Hope your trip was amazing dude, you deserve it! Without seeing anything other than FFT on top, I'd say my FFT tier has 3 games along with it. Triangle Strategy, Unicorn Overlord, and Sword of Convallaria. We're what, 3 months into SoC and I already know it's quickly approaching making it into my top 10 list of all-time. The stories are amazing, so is character design, and the gameplay is deeper than any other srpg I've ever played (and maybe ever will). Still hold TS and FFT in higher regard, but it's really hard to ignore these mobile games that are insanely well made games (shout-out to Octopath mobile game too, for being better than OT1 and 2).

[@gotaplanstan]

Further in now, and if you like non turn-based RPGs too I'd HIGHLY recommend trying out Visions of Mana's demo. Easily making my top 3 of the year along with Unicorn Overlord and Sword of Convallaria. We'll have to see if Dragon Quest 3's remake can shake things up, but I doubt it

[@geearh]

Where would you place Front Mission 3 if its in your list?

[@Shironen2011]

I will agree with Darkest Dungeon's placement. At launch. *Only* at launch. Once the update came in with the expansion that hamstringed almost every skill, it was dead to me.

[@johangp1990]

have u checked out Lost Eidolon and Gears Tactics?

[@HaruhiDream5339]

You should give Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings a try. It is a fantastic strategy game. It might be a bit hard to get though as it was a DS game.

[@Chris3s]

From all those high ranked games, are there any that have very interesting and/or well implemented mechanics that stand out? Thanks

[@TitaniumLegman]

Well, that's a pretty subjective question. UO has its map exploration, stamina systems, and the ability to program your attacks. TOR has the buff cards, finishers, and deep post game content. Darkest Dungeon features dungeon exploration and the stress mechanic. Each game has plenty of of things features to look at, but I'm not sure if they'll be mechanics that you yourself view as unique or well implemented.

[@Chris3s]

@@TitaniumLegman thanks, gonna take a better look at those 2, I played darkest dungeon and really enjoyed it.

[@dyjost]

speaking as someone that was first introduced to SRPG's with Shining Force and who's first FE game was Blazing Blade. I think you're too harsh on fe6. almost everything you put it down for, you propped up shadow dragon. a lot of characters are useless, it's still a Kaga mindset game, units are supposed to die and its supposed to be ironmanned. the only gripes I would levy against it is that support grinding was a bit too long in 6, but it was I think the first with the system, and that you miss out on the true ending if you overuse or miss any of the legendary weapons. the GBA sprites still look leagues better than shadow dragon polygons, and infinite reclassing is a net loss imo unless its only to enable challenge runs or some kind of gimmick playthrough. shadow dragon was good though, but even if my ds still worked, i'd never pick it up again. Fe6 might not have a lot of polish, but as the building block that set up 7 and 8, I have to love where it got us. also, I kinda like that axes were weighty/unwieldy and inaccurate. modern fire emblems make them too reliable and basically invalidate the triangle, the pros and cons of each weapon type, and the need for the skill/dex stat. engage does not deserve to be above any of the GBA line, even 6. screw "fidelity" i'd gladly go back to gba sprites or gamecube graphics if it meant better character designs and writing. engage feels like they used an ai artbot and didn't even give them a double take. and "call backs to the rest of the franchise"? you just deducted points from 6 for using similar character types/villains. I don't hate fates per say.... but. I hate the scripted "watch as your family members die and you can do nothing about it", "watch as everything goes to complete shite because people won't entertain a 10 sec dialogue", and the excessively corporate greed that was the method of release. do I like the aesthetic differences of nohr and hoshido. yes. do I like that conquest and birthright did the "classic feel vs free to grind" gameplay split. also yes. do I think it was ok to butcher the story to make revelations a "gotcha, buy this definitive version to have an ending that doesn't suck". not at all.

[@Sidnv]

I agree with most of your takes for the games I've played. I would put Thracia in S because of how replayable the game is to me, but that might be personal preference. It's a nice list overall. Not sure if you've tried the Etrian Odyssey games, but I rate them very highly as well. They aren't exactly strategy rpgs, but the turn based combat in the game is extremely strategic. The team customization is extremely high, there's a lot of strategic diversity and the games tend to be quite challenging as well. EO3 is my favorite and the steam port is great.

[@Lama-Su]

I know you prob havent played any of the Shining Force games but a List like this shouldnt be made without having played at least one of them first, Shining Force series is just as Iconic as Fire Emblem

[@Tarrot]

P5 Tactica, the game became a lot better for me when I stopped looking at it as a strategy game and started looking at it as a puzzle game. There is a correct solution to the problem presented with the pieces available, and most stages can be completed with a specific party comp with barely any RNG in it. With Triangle Strategy, there's three major flaws I have with the game. One is that, at the end where you pick one of the three routes, to me, it feels forced that one character is always going to leave you, compared to the rest of the story, and reflects poorly on the story leading up. Two is that, for all the choices you make, you rather easily end up at the same position once the choices resolve. With Tactics Ogre for example, while everything comes together at Chapter 4, for the major events, you feel the difference in the story. Three is that the game is super grindy if you want to level your characters, especially because of how horrible the NG+ rewards are. You get the same rewards facing level 26 units on Chapter 1 as you got when you first faced them. The first playthrough was great, but subsequent playthroughs to unlock everything really brought the game down for me. For a game recommendation that's not here, I'd recommend Legend of Cao Cao. Its effectively an SNES level Fire Emblem game where your units have Zone of Control, making positioning important, as well as its own weapon triangle, along with branching paths and characters you can recruit/save depending on dialog choices plus moderate character customization when you understand how to exploit the gear/seed/stat boost system in the game. Also, it has a massive modding scene in Chinese, with its most popular mod, Legend of Lu Bu, having an English translation. Legend of Cao Cao and Legend of Lu Bu can be found online for free (there is a defunct Legend of Cao Cao Online gatcha game which I liked and would've bought a single-player version without the Gatcha stuff in it, but that's unfortunately not possible) if you look for it on Google.

[@gothicfly]

Placing FFT highest was instant respect moment. I really loved FFT. My favorite was FF7 as a child but then I got a pirated copy of FFT and it was so good that I couldnt decide which I liked more.

[@AlmirJuniorr]

Vanguard Bandits is missing !! Hahahah, my childhood game alongside with FFT, Tactics Ogre and many others. Give it a try Titanium, it's pretty simples but a cool game !!

[@nicodalusong149]

Oh my goodness! Someone else knows about this game! Yes! Vanguard Bandits or Epica Stella on JP or Detonator Gauntlet in EU of something like that. I love this game so very much. Just remember to watch every fight at least once to fill up the gallery and remember to load your save file so you can actually see the ATACs.

[@Kavino]

What about grand strategy games? I thoroughly enjoyed Koei's Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Nobunaga's Ambition series. They are not quite 4X but they really scratched an itch of blending together empire management, character politics, and tactical battles. I tried Paradox strategy games but I found the learning curve (except for Stellaris) a bit too steep.

[@caesta7168]

Personally, I would put Unicorn Overlord in either B or C and Front Mission in D.

[@朕是神]

From your list, I think you'd like this game: world's end chapter. It's a flash game unfortunately, but you can still play it with flashpoint. The mechanics are really well designed so that smart play is heavily rewarded. Builds can be reset at any point in the game as long as you're not mid battle, which lets you test different builds for your team. Units are meaningfully different from each other, and every battle is individually designed, no procedurally generated crap. There's no grinding, so the difficulty is perfectly matched with the amount of resource you should have at that point in the game. It's just an all around great SRPG. But the main standout is the dialogue. I've played about half of the games on your list, and none of them come even close.

[@lens_hunter]

I wish i could give Unicorn Overlord my game of the year but there have been so many heavy hitters this year. Rebirth, Stellar Blade, Astro Bot, Echoes of Wisdom, Gestalt Steam and Cinder, BM Wukong, and Im not even listing everything Ive played this year. Great year.

[@WreakHvok]

Try metaphor Refantazio to add one more to your list

[@lens_hunter]

@@WreakHvok Playing it ATM, only ten hours in.

[@WreakHvok]

@@lens_hunter shoot I’m like 30 in 2 days 🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️😂😂😂

[@PloysMaw]

I've been looking forward to a list like this. I personally love A2 as it was the first game that not only introduced me too the Strategy genre but also Job Systems but I'm willing to admit it does have it's issues and before I go on a rant it sucks it ends on a cliffhanger. I would've liked to see some more 3Ds era Strategy games other then FE, Stella Glow and Dragon Ball Fusions are both great games that get overshadowed. Though I haven't played it yet the Project x Zone games are also meant to be very good. But other then that this has been a fun watch. I love how over the last 5 years or so; so many great games have come out within this genre, fingers crossed Unicorn Overlord and Triangle Strategy get a follow-up.

[@ValeVin]

Symphony of War is a game I'd love to see a review for. I just could not get into it, even as I wish that I could. I started out being like "Oh no, is this going to just be FFT apologist stuff?" and then the first thing after FFT was you talking about how Baldur's Gate was a much better game and I found myself wanting to defend FFT. For myself, FFT: War of the Lions and LUCT/Reborn are on another level than all other games. I've never found anything I'd feel comfortable putting in the same tier as them. I'd have to set them in an S+ tier. Your comment on games that are just always fun to replay is why I think I'd have trouble ranking Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber. It never tops anyone's list of the Ogre Saga, but if you ask a lot of people which one is most fun to just pick up and play with friends, it's OB64.

[@Lordrevolution77]

Ob64 is the best game on the 64, fight me. Biggest issue with SoW might be OB64's greatest strength... The story. SoW literally has a part in it where the MC tells you to not think to hard about the plot holes. So so bad.

[@Karacis]

Awesome list! was fun to watch with you while you explain and went over each. Most I agreed with and couple I was suprised by. Only 2 other SRPG's that I played and loved that I was hoping you played and put on the tier list. Thats Vandal Hearts and Ogre Battle 64

[@Ankhtowe]

Oh, I'd be curious to see Operation Darkness as well. It's definitely well within this genre, but it's a tricky game to be able to play nowadays and is just so janky and WEIRD that it tends to produce extremely polarizing opinions, which is always entertaining.

[@cpattersoniv]

Embarrassed to say Unicorn Overlord is the only one of these I've played lol

[@TitaniumLegman]

No embarrassment! Everyone starts somewhere. 😁

[@cpattersoniv]

@@TitaniumLegman Already got Tactics Orge Reborn and X-Com2 downloading.

[@AlastorShadow0]

Not much of a strategy rpg enjoyer eh?

[@Shoggunik]

Hey how the hell I didn't know about your channel before? That kind of list is exactly what I'm always striving for

[@TitaniumLegman]

KZbin is a very wide seay friend. You're here now tho, and that's what counts!

[@Imperatrix.Ekaterina]

Did you ever play Stella Deus or Operation Darkness? They're pretty obscure, but I enjoyed them (though I might be the only person to ever enjoy Operation Darkness, haha).

[@TitaniumLegman]

I have not, I'll need to check them out.

[@curtismanning6129]

I can safely say that this is the best tier list I've ever seen. Your arguments are on point and you bring so much passion, thanks a lot for all you're doing for the strategy RPG genre. You are one of the most positive content creators out there, and I'm so glad to have discovered your channel I would love to see your take on Gladius, it's such a hidden gem from LucasArts back in the PS2/GC/Xbox era but in my opinion it deserves to be high up with the big names, gameplay is so good and the peplum-fantasy is so fresh. Keep up the good work !

[@dethringr]

I’m surprise that Mario + Rabbids isn’t part of your list.

[@kevinreilly4611]

If you are looking for more turn based strategy games to play I highly recommend the game mobile suit saga for the playstation 2 if you can get your hands-on it. It's a rare gundam turnbass strategy game where you can actually customize the units.

[@gothicfly]

Problem with Phoenix Point is that it doesnt hold your hand. Like in XCOM you get 3 missions to choose from and it forces you to pick one and it automatically means that you fail others. In Phoenix Point you are given the choice the do all 3 missions which results in you running around the world putting out fires when you should be focusing on the big picture of finding a permanent solution to the pandora virus. It lets you play in a dumb way but it doesnt really encourage you to play it any other way. The way the game is set up is that you start with a relatively peaceful situation and feeling like you have all the time in the world and then it slowly cascades into utter chaos. The point you are referring to is very much the late game and you are probably only a few missions away from beating the game if you only stopped doing all the side quests and being bogged down by all the chaos happening all over the world. Also I really like what the Terror from the Void did to it. I think it breathed new life to it and improved the experience. Although I do admit that Phoenix Point could have used bigger budget and more polish, but I really believe its at the same level as XCOM 2 with its innovative mechanics. The way I like to imagine it is like after XCOM:EU there were two paths. One path went on to make XCOM bigger and more polished. Its like the main team that got most funds and who played it safe. Phoenix Point on the other hand was more experimental side project and a passion project that went on to experiment with more things. So we ended up with more innovative and new experience, that is still a bit rough on the edges. And Im pretty sure this is actually quite close to reality how these games came to be.

[@alberttan3119]

which FFT is it the one with March or the other one?

[@TitaniumLegman]

Marche is Advance

[@dyjost]

thoughts on 3H and why I think it needs points deducted. (not the original person that made the claim, just someone that agrees that 3H deserves B tier) the monastary system. while I was upset that my class rep just had to go and be the villain and I find that unfair. I still enjoyed my eagles. while playing the first time I anticipated making multiple playthroughs, but upon further reflection, I just don't want to deal with the monastary, running around to get every lil item or my anxiety attacks me, see the stupid amiibo gazebo, the forced multiplayer zone for the hide and seek mini-game. instant rank down. then, there's the completely free reclass system and the homogenization of "all things default to wyvern". I don't play that way, I prefer my niche classes/characters and I don't want to feel like I need to min/max and abuse the skill system or "i'm doing it wrong". characters also could have stood to have a bit more polish, this late into the franchise I expect the writing to be better and more fleshed out, not simplified and watered down to cause the least offense. a problem I feel most of the post-radiance games suffer from.

[@farlanghn]

I never 100% game sand I 100% Into the Breach. I liked it that much. It not being S tier is a travesty. Riot!

[@Riku2005]

Im gonna have to give Triangle Strategy another try after hearing all the praises.. I stopped playing about 3 hours in got kinda bored and things didnt really move anywhere.

[@evandigga]

Just randomly stumbled upon your channel, and I have to say, we have EXTREMELY similar opinions of these games. Guess I have no choice but to subscribe.

[@zombiepete]

I'm going to put on my armor and go to bat for Darkest Dungeon 2. I understand not liking the roguelite portion of the game - it's underbaked compared to something like Slay the Spire. But the combat is some of the best turn-based combat ever designed. I've put literally hundreds of hours into it between early access and the full release. I'm also very excited for the Kingdoms update to see if it addresses people's problems with the strategic layer of the game.

[@TitaniumLegman]

Oh don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the moment to moment gameplay of DD2. But having everything else I loved about the first game gutted to make it a roguelite was a real hype killer.

[@chrisgee8441]

Can tell you didn’t get into late chaos gate… the games not that great, but you can create a paladin that no longer takes cover, and can activate aegis for like 15 to 20 shield. Just unkillable laughing at chaos marines bolter shots just bouncing off of you. Or a grey knight chaplain that just deletes warp percentage and gives massive team buffs. I feel like the progression is way too slow, and the game is just too bloated. But the end game classes are super fun when you get them. (Don’t ever get the DLC!!) I’d give it a high C, or low B

[@darkfireslide]

Just wait til this man hears about Battle Brothers (and hopefully Menace)

[@ericl1555]

3 houses has so much fat tacked on and the last spell is S tier, really clicked with me. Everything else is spot on 😁

[@keithrice39]

Love the list even if you're objectively wrong about Daemonhunters! Seriously, that game was better than War of the Chosen for me - deeper tactical experience, Warp Surges are a better version of 'mission timers', customization was immense. Gonna have to check out Together in Battle. Also 40k mechanics are based on the fact wound tracking sucks on tabletop - even Space Marines used to take 1 hit to kill. Because it's really hard to track say 20 different models with three wounds each and how many are on each one. Does not translate well to computer games because we can just use HP bars to have incremental progress. Also play the new Star Wars tabletop game or Crisis Protocol lol.

[@pdraggy]

Yeah, I have 3000 hours in Disgaea, more than I have in 99% of MMO's! And I never finished it (ie defeated Baal in the final dungeon post-game... I haven't even GOTTEN to Baal) in single player game, it is very likely the LONGEST one ever made. NOTE: I EXTREMELY take my time when I play, specifically I was trying to get a DOZEN guys to level 999 JUST to see which job I liked best ALSO trying to max out ALL items xD. So yeah I was NEVER going to do all that. If you took the most efficient route it wouldn't take you more than 1500 hours I'm sure :). I also beat the game itself within 100 hours though :)

[@Atthetta]

FF Tactics is GOATed, haven't played most out there but was also really impressed with Triangle Strategy recently

[@victorv1151]

Id like to recommend Path Of Wuxia, is a martial arts tactical RPG. The history, combat, character development is great. Supporting characters are really endearing and memorable, there are lots of martial arts to learn, from Chinese Sword, broadsword, spear styles to poison, fan, energy projection styles very customizable. The history branchs a lot so its impossible to do certain specific things without a guide tho. Is based on chinese culture, but apart from quizzes and some artsy minigames is not overbearing, the art is great, character looks gorgeus, you can romance all the cute girls in the game and they all have their own needs and wants and events, bosses and combat is challenging and its not just stats fights, one of the best ive ever played. And thats coming from a Darkest Dungeon and XCOM 2 Long War 2 addict.

[@or__5024]

A very rare case when somebody ranks FE Fates so high. My man

[@kennethaunstrup]

Your take on DD1 and DD2 is interesting and kind of funny to me, because I am the complete opposite (and fairly certain that I am in the minority here). I tried multiple times to get into DD1, but just coudn't. The long campaign and the brutal cost of failure was just too much for me. DD2 on the other hand, I have completed so many runs, many more than I expected and many more than I usually do in games like this.

[@railfe_]

Im curious where you will put the Original Tactics ogre the SNES/PS1 version.

[@TitaniumLegman]

I need to play it.

[@railfe_]

@@TitaniumLegman I loved it as a kid. I still miss it. Reborn was amazing but I do like how harder the Initial game was. Losing a Unit is unforgiving until you get a resurrection spell. Please check that out.

[@pollosucio_]

Why no devil survivor?

[@reneepineau631]

Ooooh, I think we generally like the same things *about* games, so I'm gonna keep notes, lol

[@Sadarak1980]

Have you considered xcom 2 wotc long war? 1000 hours in it here, it expands an amazing game dramatically.

[@Twilight5007]

3 houses is great for characters and story. You can tell they had to cut a lot in terms of edelgards route which is wild to me as that was the poster character and also needed the most time to explain since it was so different than the others. Game play however just didn't appeal to me as much as other entries. Maps get reused a lot and aren't super interesting imo. The free form classes feel like they almost erased unit identity. Everyone can do almost anything, so its really hard for characters and classes to standout because of it. Sure there are crests and combat arts/spell lists, but it just isnt the same to me. Its why i enjoy the dlc the most since its the most restrained in classes.

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

Honestly just characters. The story is a mess, it's not even a good story. It's great in concept but bad in execution

[@bongochongopongo]

I feel that this stretches the definition of strategy games a bit if we include things like darkest dungeon and baldurs gate IMO, but it is what it is I suppose lol. nice list tho

[@JbMuz]

I have been waiting so long for FF Tactics to make its way to steam. I played it as a kid and would love to replay it!

[@josh440]

Dark Diety in A tier hurts my soul

[@gotaplanstan]

I'm surprised no Shining Force or Vandal Hearts entries. No Mystaria either.

[@mrp1234]

my hottest take is that FFT doesn't really do much for me. I can recognize it's very important historically but yeah

[@infamousincubus2888]

I tend to agree. It's kind of become a myth of a game tbh

[@trymv1578]

I absolutely love FFT, but it falls inward on itself SO HARD. Like I want a remaster more to fix limitations than actually raw upgrade the game.

[@gotaplanstan]

Tbh I don't think FFT has aged that well. I remember trying to replay WOTL on psp after playing Triangle Strategy when it came out, and I just couldn't. QoL wise FFT is just not fun anymore. That said, if it got a TS QoL type remaster, I'm sure I'd hold it in the highest regard like I once did.

[@williamknudson8414]

For an old game, maybe check out Vandal Hearts for the Playstation. I'd be curious where it ends up on this list.

[@uggaeb4921]

41 years old here and popped that game in bout a month ago. Such a fun game.

[@matthewfuhrken9835]

ooo that is a good one I forget about all the time. It was so hard to me back in the day, no grind maps really made you have a hard time if you didn't play great though. But I still loved it. (I really need to go back and play that one to see how I'd do now that I'm older)

[@williamknudson8414]

@@matthewfuhrken9835 If i remember it correctly (it's been a while,) it's definitely got somewhat of a "guide dang it!" issue at times, where you can either replay maps once you know how they'll go, or have a guide handy. Which... leads to the interesting idea that you can argue it's possibly a puzzle game/TBS hybrid instead of a more conventional TBS title.

[@shawnmorgan5221]

Live this list. Haven’t played most of these but FFT is my favourite game of all time too. Still waiting for the remake 🤞

[@skitterlegion1882]

Since you have put other warhammer entries in here i can't believe you didnt have Mechanicus in here. Team building tactics...GOD tier music and a premium dive into being a part of tech priests... just delicious!

[@TitaniumLegman]

Only because I haven't played it. It's definitely on my list, now more than ever since the sequel is gonna have a Necrom campaign.

[@skitterlegion1882]

@@TitaniumLegman you're in for a treat because, it's rare to find a solid Warhammer game that is more than some half assed garbage. Don't get me wrong it has some flaws as well. But it is definitely worth some solid time. And the price tag is well worth the soundtrack alone.

[@Victorvonbass]

You haven't played Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children? That one was really fun for me. I preferred it to XCOM personally. I also strongly recommend Tactical Breach Wizards for something short, hilarious and fun.

[@TitaniumLegman]

I do own Troubleshooter and have been meaning to play it for years. TBW was a major disappointment for me however, and I have no intention to return to it

[@eduardoabreu9949]

@@TitaniumLegman Wait, what?! WHAT?

[@threeswordssama]

Fantastic list here. Great work

[@TheDeathby2]

You should've ranked the Fates routes separately because Conquest is S tier, but Birthright and Revelation are B tier and C tier, respectively.

[@TitaniumLegman]

@@TheDeathby2 Nah, I take the game as a whole. Different routes have different issues, sure, but the overall package is choice.

[@Demonic0Jester]

my hot take is that while engage's characters are badly written they are more well written than the characters in BG3

[@everythingmainecooncat4938]

Ogre Battle? also where does the PSP remake of Tactics Ogre rank?

[@TitaniumLegman]

Haven't played ogre battle. PSP remake is what's on here.

[@everythingmainecooncat4938]

​@@TitaniumLegman man, if you loved Unicorn I think you will dig it. I like to think of Unicorn Overlord as it's spiritual successor since Square doesnt seem to want to touch it. I also don't remember PSP TO being super grindy, but it's been awhile since I played.

[@TitaniumLegman]

@@everythingmainecooncat4938 Oh believe me, I know I'll love it. I just haven't had the chance to play it yet. But I'm eager to do so.

[@Paulg3527-l9l]

TO Let us cling together is the GOAT

[@BenNauman]

Troubleshooter needs to be on here… at least somewhere

[@vernon772]

i am so happy to hear you played symphony of war and liked it so much!! i was checking this vid out to potentially find a hidden gem.

[@leol2926]

My thought when clicking this is "fft should have it's own God teir" I'm dead. This list seems trustworthy at the start...and then darkest dungeon 😂