Turn the key is a BAD cue (except when it's very good...)

[@MrFoxyBox]

fixed my nose angle by putting more pressure on my thumb and pinky in my grip.

[@dgspindoctor]

Aahaa! That is exactly the fix that worked best for me, too. Never had to pour the coffee or anything after that. You mean the backloaded grip I covered in my video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rnytnZqIeaxpbpo

[@MrFoxyBox]

@@dgspindoctor Exactly!

[@dejvicerules]

That would be hard for me, since I don't even hold/touch the disc with my pinkie (actually so I can hold the disc more nose down). So I don't turn the key with my wrist by turning the key with the disk itself in my palm. The 1019 rated guy taught me this at the clinic.

[@dgspindoctor]

@@dejvicerules You can put the pressure on the ring finger, too. The point is to have the disc deep in your palm.

[@chodeus143]

Ansolutely agree Doc. It's all about the grip!

[@amgatch]

Another gem!

[@Iliyena87]

The grip you used for the Glitch helps me with new dics, been almost doing it before, but every disc is unique, and there might be a perfect driver for YOU reading this, the Ballista is mine so far, it gets nice nose compared to a lot of discs with less speed and same speed with different grips, some days you just forget using all the things like the actual grip you use for a year... the bane of having kids and no time to cement the groundwork fully ;D

[@TheMakki]

Releasing too early also is an issue. If you arm is not at or near full extension with a solid follow through - it will come out nose up as well. (my issue)

[@dgspindoctor]

Very good point!

[@sarinhighwind]

This is great.

[@sarinhighwind]

Explains why my sky annies went to pot here in the last year. Arm posture and alignment are so critical

[@dgspindoctor]

Yeah! If your mobility limits your follow through, and it does for most of us, the swing plane can't hold.

[@micdavey]

Nice! I've found that when I have nose up issues it's usually one of three things (or any combination I guess!); high to low as the disc comes across the body (the Swoop), poor swing path integrity where the hand goes high in relation to hyzer angle during the follow through), or leaning back (towards the back of the teepad). That said, I try to think about where I want my thumb to be in the follow through and let my brain take care of controlling wrist position during the throw.

[@dgspindoctor]

Good tip! If you have the basics in check, there is no need to turn the key.

[@fullyawakened]

I'm someone that has a lot of trouble comfortably following through on my extreme anhyzer shots, such as backhand rollers. IDK if "turn the key" is right for me in that instance either, but I would be very interested in BH roller / anhyzer videos you got coming out. Checking out the back catalogue now

[@dgspindoctor]

I would think it's a lot easier to throw annies and rollers with the hand rolling than the body rolling over.

[@jamesfarabaugh6669]

I never took this cue to mean do it in a jerking movement at the end, rather I think about it as keeping my wrist supinated, palm up starting at my reach back, through the pocket and the hit.

[@dgspindoctor]

Either way, to force the wrist roll over is a bad cue.

[@sweetjohn3340]

I have been struggling with nose up. From watching your videos I have come to the conclusion that my issue lies further up the chain of my throw. It’s common knowledge that you dont “release” the disc, it comes out when it wants to. and that arm muscles are “weak” in comparison to the momentum generated by a proper throw. So the idea that you can manually twist your wrist while throwing doesn’t make sense to me

[@dgspindoctor]

Exactly! My nose up issues vanished when I started to brace correctly and finally when I changed the grip, I didn't have to even think about it anymore. If you grip correctly, the wrist works optimally, and these kinds of weird moves are not needed.

[@sweetjohn3340]

@@dgspindoctor thanks for the reply! I struggle with reflexively shrugging my front shoulder upwards when I throw. Do you have any videos that you’d recommend for me? I have watched your videos about (not) tucking the elbow, and pushing the scapula out rather than retracting. But I am still having trouble finding a drill or feeling that clicks and helps me get away from this bad habit. Thanks for all your help!

[@dgspindoctor]

@@sweetjohn3340 I'm not an expert in physio stuff, but scapular stability plays an enormous role in shrugging the shoulder. You might want to look into that. Other than that, you really want to focus on the arm, not the neck or the back.

[@sweetjohn3340]

@@dgspindoctor thanks! I will look into it!

[@samuelrasmussen9458]

I needed this video, been trying to turn the key and get the nose down but it doesn't work for me. I'll stop trying and just work on the swing plane instead.

[@dgspindoctor]

Yeah, the swing plane and especially the grip are the answers to this problem, not some gimmick last second moves.

[@JejuneJesuit]

I've been messing around with the "turn the key" cue on my tech disc, and it feels like abruptly flipping the disc on release puts a lot of uncomfortable pressure on my fingers. However, one of my friends whose max throws are 4-5mph less than me started SMOKING me on distance with anhyzer flex lines recently. I'm convinced nose angle is the key (well, that plus disc stability on that line). I want to find a natural amount of supination in my swing, which I don't see being painful and which should be especially useful when paired with a high launch angle. Not counting out "turn the key" entirely, yet. Would love to see some tech disc data in this discussion, since I feel like that's the best way to measure nose angle.

[@dgspindoctor]

People are pretty caught up on tech disc data nowadays. We did quite okay without it, seeing what actually flew the farthest.

[@happyboyeeeee]

I think the concept is good for any angle, but not by turning the wrist for the reasons you mentioned. I think any action done by the wrist alone is going to result in inconsistencies and RPM losses per Overthrow’s experiments. However, the concept when performed by the thumb via it pushing down and forward is I think what you want, per discussion with Avery Jenkins. This thumb motion will keep the disc nose down, provided you time it right, which I think is right after the disc weight change (right as soon as the forearm is opening). The movement also adds to the opening of the forearm without using the triceps, which I think is a dangerous muscle group to actively engage in propelling the forearm open. Practicing this more has gotten me to park an over 300 foot uphill hole the other day using a fairway with a fan grip and a slow two step run up. I could definitely still be wrong, but just trying to develop concepts using others’ information who know more than me, and that I think is safe.

[@dgspindoctor]

By pushing the thumb down and forward you are, basically gripping the disc like you should. No active moves done there.

[@meatballmarinara]

I still dont get it 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@dgspindoctor]

Tell me what's bothering you.

[@meatballmarinara]

@@dgspindoctor I'll watch the video again 😞

[@ScottSmith-vc5vf]

I don’t know your name. Lol. I must be blind. I like what you do. Your videos I find helpful. Do you ever do clinics in the states?

[@dgspindoctor]

The name is not important, the message is. I don't do clinics in the states, because, you know...European working in the US is a hassle.

[@jannejaakkola5836]

Just curious, why would you do the key turning only just before the release? Why not just keep that wrist angle throughout the throw?

[@dgspindoctor]

Also a good question. Some insist that you need to brief case grip the disc and then actively whip it straight, Seppo Paju style. But obviously nobody is doing that activelt because it happens automatically already, if you let the body move freely.

[@taylorosteen5041]

I love DG spin doctor, but I think it’s a mixture of different cues or whatever works for you. Turning the key/pour the coffee combination worked best for me to get the nose down. Once you figure that out, it’s very easy to throw your putters/mids nose up for approach shots for a more fading gliding shot.

[@dgspindoctor]

I mean, it works of course. Thing is, you don't have to do any of this, if you are doing things correctly already.

[@jaynorris3631]

💯

[@yozz54428]

Turn the key is littersly only way i ever get nose down results with the tech disc. Otherwise im always 5 plus nose up

[@dgspindoctor]

What about normal discs on the field?

[@JTygerAU]

@@dgspindoctorThe comment here is also my experience. For me - they fly in the field the same way TechDisc detects it so I’m convinced it’s accurate. As I’m sitting here just holding a disc and checking my swing plane though, I’m seeing that my shoulder REALLY does not like it when my wrist and elbow are moving on the swing plane, so maybe my core issue is shoulder mobility as you state in the video. For reference: I’m almost 40 and one of those office / desk worker types.

[@dgspindoctor]

@@JTygerAU That really could be the issue, or maybe it's your grip? Because the wrist should be totally at rest and aligned without having to pour the coffee or turn the key, and sure enough the grip affects that.

[@NickCarroll]

What worked for me, with my bad swing plane, was turning the key - but only slightly, and it was somewhat consistent throughout the throw. Personally I couldn't do it dynamically through the throw. Just not a skill I've been able to develop. That said, once I fixed my swing plane in controlled testing, nose angle went down pretty consistently, of 2-4 degrees typically. Even had a few negative nose angles. That said, my swing is borked because I reflexively bring the disc up too high in my backswing, so there is a swoop, and the nose can't help but go up. You might look at your form from the side and rear and see if that's happening to you.

[@JTygerAU]

@@NickCarroll there’s a recent video Overthrow did where he uses a hula hoop to make sure he’s on plane. Have been doing something similar for a couple go weeks around the house in front of a mirror and then working on the same rotation in the field. What I learned is that I thought I was on plane but it was nowhere close. It’s just a lot of work to learn the feel and then, frankly, it’s a lot of physical work to drill and do the motion.

[@TheBerryTV]

They gon rip you for this one chief 😂

[@dgspindoctor]

They are welcome.