GivEnergy AC 3K with 5.2kWh home/solar battery review

[@AndyC2_]

I think this is one of the most comprehensive explanation/reviews on anything I’ve ever seen Just want to thank you for your time and efforts Nigel, and let you know it’s massively appreciated 👍🏼

[@EVPuzzle]

That's really kind Andy. 👍😀

[@ninbend0]

75 W base load on your house? That's amazing! I thought I was doing well with 250 W. Back to the drawing board for me! Also, fascinating nuggets of info on how Solis and myenergi data collection is affected by a router being down, and how data collected by these things differs from meter readings. Many thanks!

[@EVPuzzle]

Glad to see someone else interested in the detail

[@geoffreycoan]

I’d watched this some time ago, but re-watched it now to remind myself what you’d said about the GE system as I’ve had my twin hybrid coupled inverters and battery installed for 5 months now, and whether things have changed. GE have reworked the portal, its now easier to use than it was when you did the review, there is now an Android app, and in the app in local mode you can see the inverter and battery data updated every 10 seconds rather than every 5 minutes when its pushed to the cloud/portal - this remains the same. Its user configurable now to look at ranges of dates in the portal/app, but there is still a ‘dayness’ to the views - can’t scroll usage either side of midnight for example but you can easily see the battery charge, discharge and % full level over any time period in both the app and the portal. There doesn’t seem to be the same focus on battery throughput that there used to be, I couldn’t find that anywhere in the portal now. For the newer gen 2 9.5kW battery there’s no warranty limitation on throughput and its 100% depth of discharge. Still a bit of laggyness with the inverter responding to load being applied and removed, but its not too bad and looking back at the last week for example I’m importing less than 1kW a day - I can live with 34p electricity costs.

[@EVPuzzle]

Thanks Geoffrey that's a good update . I've heard similar from those people I know with givenergy systems including family . I haven't put people off it seems with my honest take but it seems with all the issues there have been I wasn't far off the mark with some of my concerns. They've improved and come a long way, selling a huge number if systems . Their price point has been brilliant compared with say the new Libbi system which looks over priced by comparison. Such a shame they can't get that lag sorted

[@geoffreycoan]

@@EVPuzzle There is a new Battery Management System released by GE a couple of weeks ago, it's been in testing for ages and there's a new inverter firmware update that's in beta testing so they are continuing to improve and develop the products. Apparently more frequently data synchronisation to the cloud is in the pipeline as well. One thing I forgot to mention from a point in your review is that multi inverter setups are NOT currently recommended by Givenergy as the inverters are not aware of each other and can clash. Having said that I have two hybrid inverters and they work fine ok. There is an Energy Management System box that's in development/test that is to address these issues, but ETA isn't at all clear

[@EVPuzzle]

@@geoffreycoan my brother has a gen 2 win an issue so is getting a gen 3 in hope of fixing it They're a company on the up for sure

[@kevslaney]

Great detailed review. I am having 7.2kw Solar and the 8.2kw Givenergy battery fitted in the next week. User interface for the battery looks simple to use and I am using SolarEdge for the pv. It’s going to be installed in the loft space, so will keep an eye on the temperature 👍

[@0xNameless]

Looking for a PV and battery system myself, do you have any good feedback on the PV and battery system?

[@kevslaney]

@@0xNameless Yes, it’s been great. The solar is coming into its own now with the longer days and filling the battery. The battery is good for offsetting your usage, charging on cheap rates and exporting at peak rates. The system web interface works well, it’s easy to program when to use the battery and when to import/export. There has been a few minor issues with software updates, nothing major. The agile integration is working progress, getting better with every update. Overall I am very happy with the system performance and value for money 👍👍

[@bootangy]

hows it going? ive been offered two 8.2kw . was it worth it?

[@kevslaney]

@@bootangy , yes , its been great during the summer. Solar and batteries have been great, so minimal import needed during the summer. Minor issue with the battery, the BMS needed replacing, nothing major, diagnosed and sorted quickly. Great support by Givenergy, you can talk direct to them, as they are UK based. User interface has been updated and easy to fully control or leave it to run on auto, its your choice. The new batteries are 8.2 kw usable capacity now, so even better value. You could double up your inverter and draw approx 5.6 kwh if you need that kind of power. So yes , I am happy with the system. Payback is even better now with the increase in energy prices, go for it

[@bootangy]

@@kevslaney cool ty. im just about to buy today!

[@showme360]

Thanks for the honest overview, it seems most systems currently on the market operate in the same, I’ve had to patch together my own system and made mods to see what’s going on, and input to my own excel spreadsheet to enter data, where I’ve included weather conditions, ambient and system temperatures. I’ve also increased my solar array for winter use that technically exceeds the systems limits to optimise solar input. I real feel this aspect of solar use in the UK needs more investigation. The excess solar sit on my out building which will be used in the summer months for use in the office, a separate circuit from the main house circuit.

[@robsmith1a]

Thanks for a thorough review. I think I will wait a few years before looking at solar and batteries again.

[@johntisbury]

A good non biased review Nigel. Some great features with the Octopus Agile tie in and the ability to manually control charging and discharging. Agree with you 100% on the slow refresh times on the data and the graphs and the granularity of that data. The response time, and the amount of instant power available, to changes in demand is slow and as you pointed out it then means either grid pull or export which all lead to inefficiency of the system. The Powerwall is more expensive however and beats the GiveEnergy system in all areas apart from the Agile tie in and its ability to manually control it. Knowing Tesla they will get round to adding those features at some point.

[@EVPuzzle]

I need a Powerwall but I'm not a fan of automation with a full control option too. There's other factors too like can I connect a wind turbine to the Powerwall. Adding extra generation is likely I think

[@johntisbury]

@@EVPuzzle Currently Tesla Powerwall does not support wind turbine input, there's no way to integrate it.

[@stephenshannon3706]

@@johntisbury Our system has a lot in common with yours - solar power, Powerwall and 2 EV’s. Ideally, would like to achieve zero carbon and virtually no bills. That will only be possible for us if we can replace the gas central heating. Regrettably electric boilers are still more expensive to run than gas, but using smart tariffs the gap may narrow considerably. So I understand why wind power is an attraction for dealing with the shortfall especially in the winter months. Unfortunately small domestic wind turbines are relatively inefficient, quite expensive and incompatible with Powerwall. This is the reason I found the Ripple Energy offering quite compelling. Basically you just buy shares in a large windmill and that power is bought by Octopus (though in future there will be a choice of suppliers). Your share of the power generated is then going to act as a credit on your electricity account; doing it this way means that you still benefit from power generated at a time you can’t use it - it merely credits you account for when you can use it, ie November, December and January etc. You can buy as little as £250 worth of shares, up to a max of 120% of usage. This means you can dip your toe in the water very cheaply, with the prospect of increasing your investment in future on further windmills or other renewable energy projects. It also has the advantage that you can transfer the credit if you move home. This offers the prospect of being able to cover massively increased electricity demand in future for electric heating - a real option given that GSHP are extremely expensive and for many people not practical. This sort of crowd funded approach is a neat option because it can dovetail neatly with many different situations whether people live in houses or flats and it’s possible to get your foot on the ladder relatively inexpensively. Try Googling Ripple Energy for details. A penny for your thoughts.

[@dickie997]

Hi Nigel, Thanks for making the video which is very comprehensive. I'm just starting out with batteries and its great to see some honest reviews. Richard

[@bene2000]

Hi Nigel Please which company supplied you the prices so i can reach out to them. would you recommend a 5KWh battery sonnen over a GivEnergy 8.2KWh battery?

[@bootangy]

which did you buy?

[@B-SPEQ-BE]

Huge huge huge thanks. So much detail, and data. Just subbed. Enjoyed the commentary very much also.

[@EVPuzzle]

Cheers Peter, glad you found the channel.. KZbin seems to be promoting me a bit more now so more people are finding me. This months stats video will go live this afternoon. Great to compare how I'm getting on with a different battery.

[@jezbarber5147]

Hi Nigel, Being now some 14months since you created this excellent in depth report, I pick up on your findings on efficiency, do you still have this GivEnergy set up. So the reaction times to change in load / generation can take 5-15 seconds, plus only monitors to grid every 30 seconds, cannot help agreeing this should all be milliseconds. Are things still the same. Myself being, currently, a low user with another (F.I.T.) 2.5kWp Solar PV, on Octopus Go, plus an EV, these slow responses would create an amount of wasted energy out as well as purchasing at higher rates. Have you suggestions on other systems that do have improved grid monitoring and load response times to consider please.

[@EVPuzzle]

No I don't have the Givenergy battery any more. I'm in the process of changing over from a Huawei battery to Pylontech. Huawei was much better response time wise but they're all the same as they're regulated by the rules governing grid connection. That's what I've found anyway. The only way around this is to have a micro grid or be off grid to provide seperation from the grid thus its rules no longer apply. I believe this is how Tesla make the Powerwall respond so fast with the Gateway isolating it from the grid.

[@apsolltd]

Hi Nigel I have had a 4kW solar array for 11 years and I am looking for a 10kW battery and your videos have been very informative. I live in Norfolk (Thetford area) but I am having trouble with installers getting back to me. Can I please ask you who you used for your installation?

[@EVPuzzle]

My installer doesn't do residential any more . Try Green scape energy ..met them at a show and seemed very good, not far away either

[@peakrider4886]

Thanks Nigel, that was a very useful insight into the GivEnergy system. We are currently researching different solar systems, and so your channel has been a really useful resource to find information. I noticed on the Overview page shown that the solar production plus the inverter generation was producing more than the load of your house, which equalled exactly the amount that was being exported to the grid. Could this be the leakage you are seeing? There's so much to take in and learn, but think I'm getting there so at least I have some knowledge when talking to the different solar companies.

[@EVPuzzle]

Having tested a battery with variable grid import balance control I know the leaking is the algorithm and speed at which the system reacts. Balancing a fluctuating grid connection is a seperate function even from adjusting to different loads. It's rumoured some don't do that well at low base loads of 100w to 200 w this lots of bouncing from import to export. Others are more accurate

[@jpsnetworkingchannel3430]

Great video, was considering the GivEnergy battery set up but may need to rethink now. I like you enjoy the data diving and am trying to go low with the amount of energy I use from the grid.

[@_vladas]

What system have you finally got?

[@jpsnetworkingchannel3430]

@@_vladas I have gone for a Victron/Pylontech setup simlar to Nigel. Although slightly smaller. 3kVA inverter with 3xUS3000C batteries. I'll be making a video about my setup soon on my channel. You can briefly see it on the end of my channel update but I don't discuss it at lenght.

[@_vladas]

@@jpsnetworkingchannel3430thanks for your time How does it perform? What area do you live?

[@jpsnetworkingchannel3430]

@@_vladas Really well so far, it's only been in a couple of weeks but really happy with it so far, our electricity costs have dropped significantly. We are in Telford in the UK

[@_vladas]

@@jpsnetworkingchannel3430 glad you are happy with you set up, I still have to configure mine

[@peterjenkins8522]

Great review, we have 2 Tesla Powerwalls and are now on Octopus Agile so this ability to integrate with the tariff would be something Tesla could do with (assuming it works correctly of course).

[@intothemultiverse1033]

Keep hearing tesla are going to be a utility provider in the U.K. Although that is from Facebook Tesla groups. That would probably the integrate into your powerwall.

[@kael13]

@@intothemultiverse1033guess that never happened. Lol

[@stephanuslintvelt5108]

Great feedback. Is a 3kW inverter not a bit on the light side? With my 48/5000/70-100 I find we have to limit the loads not to run into an inverter overload situation. All current draw of the house is through the inverter. Can you not add more battery and still use the same inverter? If I am not mistaken you are currently running 2 Solar Inverters plus the one on the battery. If you should change to a MPPT Solar Charger to and a single Inverter would the losses not be less? My system is a 3.15kW array (10 panels) through the Victron BlueSolar MPPT 150/70 charge controller to 8xPylontech US2000B batteries giving 19.2kWh total storage. There is a Victron Multiplus 48/5000/70-100 Inverter Charger and the whole lot is controlled by a GX Colour Controller. There is no specific grid meter and I am using BMS of the Pylontechs for battery management through the VE Can Bus connection. The storage capacity seems excessive but I am purposefully limiting the State of discharge to only 50% in an effort to prolong battery life by a few more cycles. This 50% limit leaves me with 30% of "emergency" battery capacity should the infamous ESCOM (only energy provider in South Africa) go down for an extended period. For a normal night's usage the battery comes down to about 65% SOC before the sun is high enough to charge it again. Longer than 21 hours on battery with limited solar and the battery hits my 50% limit and puts me back on grid.

[@EVPuzzle]

No it's a limit of the inverter. Think your Victron supports 4kw continuous? I do like the Multiplus range.

[@EVPuzzle]

Your system is pretty close to my ideal scenario and yes I could use one less inverter but I'm thinking maybe adding more panels through the mppt. Lots of potential

[@stephanuslintvelt5108]

@@EVPuzzle The spec sheet says it can but I have never tried it.

[@deang5622]

A 3KW inverter is a bit on the light side for an entire house. You could power an electric kettle with that but nothing else at the same time. You would have to switch to a lower power kettle which would just take longer to heat the water. Adding more batteries doesn't fix this problem. What this does is allow you to store more energy in the battery, and or deliver higher current from the battery (if they are wired in parallel) but you are still limited by the power handing capability of the inverter. You would need to change the inverter if you want to handle more load than 3KW.

[@G6EJD]

Thanks, a really good and comprehensive review.

[@ebonita840]

Thank you for an interersting review Nigel. Regardin distanses between units when mounting on the wall, do you se any understandable reason for the given figures? Or could it be a little negotiable? Staffan

[@EVPuzzle]

Must be based on maximums so depends on your location I guess. In the UK they seem extreme in dome cases. Venting inverter hot air onto a battery isn't wise of course

[@automotivel3501]

I am confused, the solar said it supplied one amount, the inverter/app/battery said a different amount, and the Smart meter over estimated kWh used - this is the one you get charged for. I would expect it to be accurate, or are the energy companies stealing from us?

[@EVPuzzle]

The inverts measure power from the pv panels, Myenergi measures what it sees once converted to AC power and my bill is what I pay and is the most accurate. It didn't over estimate 190 is lower than solaredge said and lower than myenergi said

[@stagman4611]

ordered and paid deposit last week on a twin 8.2 battery system

[@pmbpmb5416]

I am trying to install a system along the lines of your Pylontech bank with the Victron inverter , hoping to use the Force series . Have you had any cause to regret that choice you made ? Ideally of course want to avoid using the grid , this is pie in the sky as I have little choice other than to install a heat pump as well and to ensure one of the elderly occupants is kept warm it will need to run 24/7 .

[@nwatson4022]

Thanks Nigel. Your usual detailed and thorough review! 😁. I’d be interested in your thoughts on the StorEdge battery solution as it integrates with the SolarEdge inverter with DC coupling. I too have a SolarEdge system (but no battery yet) and like you I’m impressed with its reporting capabilities. Cheers

[@EVPuzzle]

Haven't tried it but user interface for timed charging is poor so it's a no for me. I think you need a flexible system you can adjust on the fly if needed. Storedge is more set once and leave alone and maybe call installer for simple things like timed charging.

[@russellscott1151]

Nice review and I’ve seen your more recent one on the victron. But this review was 2 years ago so has the giveenergy solution greatly improved? Also the victron system seems to be around £1500-£2000 more expensive so is it really worth it?

[@EVPuzzle]

Givenergy has improved in battery capacity and software but the issue and concerns I mention are still relevant. Updates are slow but I hear response times are improved on the App but bit the inverter. Adding cheaper pylontech batteries helps equalise the price and gives more upgrade flexibility. Givenergy is limited to only their own and only same size model of battery upgrade Is it worth it? For me yes.

[@russellscott1151]

@@EVPuzzle interesting, thanks.

[@matthewgilbert3612]

Hi Nigel, I have a 3.6 GivEnergy hybrid inverter with the 5.2kw battery. What's the best way to charge an EV with solar excess without discharging my battery? I haven't purchased the EV yet but I just want to make sure the whole system will work together. Thanks for your great videos as always.

[@EVPuzzle]

Hybrid isn't as easy to control but CT Clip location is the key or buy a Givenergy charger perhaps Zappi works brilliant with an AC connected battery. If you look at Jonathon Portfields videos eco cars . Net he has a hybrid Solis and zappi charger and charges fine from solar

[@tmanoharanify]

Hi Nigel, are these givenergy hybrid inverters intelligent enough monitor each panel and workout the individual panels affected by shade or dust etc and remove them off from the string so that the performance of rest of the panels will not affected ? Usually you would need individual optimisers for this functionality?

[@ratgreen]

Great video thanks. Do you know if the emergency load output on this stays on all the time, or only when grid power goes down? It would be cool to have your house lights wired into the emergency load so if you have a power cut you arent left in the dark. But obvoisly that requires there to be output on the emergency load all the time.

[@nickieredshaw7835]

Thanks for another great video. Great details about the setup. Yes it’s a cheap battery but sounds a bit buggy .

[@johnwilkins2023]

As someone just embarking on this whole Solar PV, energy saving, EV journey I came across your videos yesterday. I have found them so informative and helpful I am now slowly catching up so forgive me if I am not fully up to date yet. I haven’t seen anything about alternatives to batteries such as the Sunamp product. Have you done any research on this. By the way I have subscribed so keep the videos coming. Thanks

[@normanboyes4983]

A newcomer to the channel and trying to get my head round solar/battery storage/agile tariffs et al. Thank you for your video which was useful and informative. A few questions if you are able to answer. You have purchased a huge and expensive battery and it is sitting in the Kona, what is the obstacle to progress with regard to V2G - is it vehicle manufacturer, third part suppliers and/or the national grid? As a more basic engineer my myopia would suggest it is vehicle software driven, maybe the wall charger configuration and software (the third party) and registering the capacity of the vehicle battery with the DNO. What’s your take - with your software background have you not been tempted to hack this?

[@EVPuzzle]

The Zappi charger is probably software upgradable to allow energy to flow the other way.....maybe. But the CCS standard doesn't allow for bidirectional charging. Chademo does. The new Ioniq 5 from Hyundai does, sort of but I still think it's a way off being connected to the house other than as an additional 3 pin socket. Personally I'm not a fan of V2G or V2H as a permanent solution but I can see the advantages of dumping energy out of the car battery to say a house battery as contingency. I look at it like computers. Years ago we'd be lucky to have one in the house now we have so many in phones, tablets, laptops , smart TVs etc we literally have dozens of micro processors. Battery are the same. We have UPS, phone charges , battery boater boxes, home batteries and car batteries. Having just one to do everything doesn't meet out ever changing demands, well always need another and another Cars are mobile and bit always in the drive and unless you're a fan of a scrap car sitting on your drive It really doesn't make sense using a car to power a house.

[@sammyb304]

I was considering adding GivEnergy AC Coupled Inverter and 8.2 batteries to a Solis S6 inverter with 14 panels. Two EVs. I have Zappi, Eddi, Harvi, Hub also and have been frustrated by myenergi’s lack of data (5 minute intervals, rigid reporting, no export to CSV). In your opinion what is the best battery system you have tested that I should consider? I don’t mind changing the inverter as mine is currently 3.6 kw output and I would prefer higher. Puredrive Purestorage II batteries were recommended to me by my solar installer (but there is very little information on them and I’m not sure I’d be getting the best system or just what they can sell!) I too want efficiency and would be very frustrated knowing I was importing and exporting energy even though I shouldn’t be. It seems most installers just want to sell you a system and that’s it. Very few might actually give you things to consider that get you the best system for your needs.

[@EVPuzzle]

Best view my Puredrive related videos. I'm not a fan. Myenergi data is much more frequent if you tap into the server api. I use Home Assistant

[@LeiChat]

May I ask if you considered Solaredge battery and if so why you discounted it? I'm looking for an AC coupled battery as we have FiT, that I can use alongside solar and Octopus Go. Hopefully charging the battery with some excess solar energy during the day, topping that up with off-peak energy from the grid. Ideally would like to have enough in the battery to be off grid during peak hours and if there is sufficient spare, charge an EV with some, supplementing with off-peak as required.

[@EVPuzzle]

Yes Timed charging interface or lack thereof was the main issue. The profile setting seems designed for set once and leave which doesn't suit flexible use, otherwise its a good system if limited by battery choice a bit. Solaredge are mostly DC coupled solutions too

[@LeiChat]

@@EVPuzzle Thank you. The Tesla Powerwall apparently has similar 'profile' configuration limitations. While it's obviously hard to predict how much excess solar we may generate each day, the general household consumption and EV charging are more predictable so having a battery solution that allows configuration of charging based on times and state of charge is, in my opinion, something on the 'must have' feature shopping list.

[@EVPuzzle]

Powerwall is better, you can adjust the off peak period easily

[@sanders3219]

Spotted this system only recently while browsing videos on KZbin. Seemed like a nice system on fitst glance. This review however tells a bit of a different story. Nice indept review of the product, great work! Will be following this Channel. You might want to take a look at the rct-power line of products.

[@waterloowar]

thanks for this useful video. may I know whether this inverter + battery pack can deliver power to the house socket during power outage?

[@EVPuzzle]

Yes it does

[@waterloowar]

@@EVPuzzle Thanks, I tried to ask the installer. they said the inverter needs a AC signal in order to supply the power in the house. that is if power outage, it won't work. why does the installer have different answer? do you have additional components in order to make it work?

[@EVPuzzle]

The inverter does need the grid to work but needs to shut down the grid connection in event of a power failure to avoid your solar power going back out and electrifying the wires that are being worked on. Not all inverters do this

[@amcadam26]

If I have a 3kw inverter, does that mean any power need over 3kw will come from the grid?

[@EVPuzzle]

Yes but that's if at max 3kw of course otherwise from the grid

[@kevinjackson6387]

Hi mate like the look of the givenergy kit ,I’m just looking into getting solar,and looking at all options,got a small 2 bed semi, Just me and the mrs,have a combi boiler for heating and hot water, use a Ele shower but might change this run off boiler,this will be our last house ,back of the house is south facing so all good for panels ,I have detached concrete garage right next to the house the kit would have to go in there would put it in a cabinet, still need to. Do a bit more research before spending any monies ,but found your vid very useful

[@Lee_184]

Hi Nigel, really enjoyed this video. I was hoping you could give me some advice!? I live in a 4 bed house with no solar panels. We use 19kwh a day. My aim is to buy a battery system to charge up from the grid on the agile or EV tariff then discharge for home use when needed. I was considering the giveenergy 2 X 8.2kwh setup with the hybrid inverter (for future solar panels). Is this a good option or do any other systems compare for the price? Thanks

[@EVPuzzle]

It'll be close to a Powerwalls price. Home backup is better as is discharge rates. I'd do solar first personally

[@robertedmunds2394]

I’m considering this option with my solar panels 14 panels 3-4 KW with solar edge inverter. They generated 3760 kw at 60p kw.1878 was exported at 5p kw. What would I expect the payback time to be. Also any idea of costs. Would I need a smart meter and join octopus energy. Thanks great video

[@johnrush3596]

Interesting comments. The integration with Agile is interesting but I'll confess I have managed the same by watching the rates. Still happy with the Lux even with it's little limitations

[@EVPuzzle]

How's the charge and discharge rates going with the Lux?

[@johnrush3596]

@@EVPuzzle With 3 or more batteries, the discharge rate is 3.2kw per unit with a max of around 6.4kw when two units are available. Charge wise is the same. The recharge can be limited by the software. The maximum charge rate is 3.5kw and s consistant. Temperature in the garage is another concern, I am trying to get a good view on the ideal temperature for maximum charge and discharge. Discharge is not restricted by temperature.

[@EVPuzzle]

If those are actual observed numbers but spec numbers I'm impressed

[@johnrush3596]

@@EVPuzzle Those are actual figures from when the 8kw shower is running in the house. This means with 1kw of solar we can just about charge the car at full rate if there is power in the batteries. Most house tasks like the washing machine + kettle or washing machine + tumble dryer mean no pull from the grid. This was the original plan for the install.

[@EVPuzzle]

It's a good device it seems

[@ianhailey]

Thanks for this video, the slow reaction times are annoying. Which alternatives are better (Tesla / SolarEdge)?

[@EVPuzzle]

Those with a parallel grid like the Tesla .

[@AndrewEbling]

Curious how many of the issues raised in this review have since been addressed by GivEnergy?

[@ianswales7219]

Great review Nigel it's really useful as I'm looking for a system at the moment and gives me things to look out for as it difficult to compare systems. One I have seen is a Lux Hybrid inverter and battery combined, not a clue about this make but a selling point I saw on this system was it had 2 X 13amp supplies direct from the battery which you can use in s power cut without the need for any other hardware. I was thinking combi boiler and lights. Anyway I digress do enjoy and learn from your videos . Cheers Ian

[@EVPuzzle]

Ian Lux power sounds like one of the best KW output devices according to the spec mostly uses the pylontech batteries. They say it outputs 3.6kw which is amazing if it does. But then Givenergy say they're outputs 3kq but in reality it's a mix of 2.8kw and 2.4kw or less depending on soc and conditions. Lux is a good solution it seems but online software seems limited and I'm not sure how efficient it is. Lots of research. I'd love to test one of course. If Lux power are readying this, give me a call 👍

[@ianswales7219]

@@EVPuzzle let's hope they are reading and take you up. I see people mention mppt charges on here are these the same as inverters as I have a victron mppt on my boats system and very pleased with it and confidence in the make do would like to use similar with the house system. Do you think the pylontech batteries are worth considering also. Cheers Again Ian

[@EVPuzzle]

Yes , I think they're good. Us3000 especially

[@yusufhusein4038]

Finally can I retrofit solar panels with micro inverters to a GivEnergy battery ? Yes that’s a question 🙋 I’ve nit seen addressed. So to be clear a GivEnergy battery in 2021 and then a hybrid (?) inverter and a 4 kw array of solar panels in 2022?

[@EVPuzzle]

Yes but not sure you'd want to do them seperately with hybrid inverters each time. retrofit batteries are often AC coupled units like the one I had on test. Decent installer will advise on best options

[@simplybiofuels]

Hi, Thank you for your great videos, I too am in Norfolk and plan to get a givenergy system, I had some people round tonight and they quoted more than I expected, I wonder if you mind letting me know rough costs and possobly who installed yours. Many thanks Roy

[@EVPuzzle]

Roy, my recommended installer is Powerdifferent. Their details are in the description of my videos. Prices vary depending on install complexity and how much the installer wants to make as profit. Wholesale prices of an 8.2kwh battery with 5kw hybrid inverter is in the region of £3600 vs the AC coupled withe 5.2kwh around £2500. There's wiring, connectors, switches, dongles etc on top plus installation. Basically if it starts with a 5 I'd be curious as to why

[@normanpouch]

@@EVPuzzle profit margin, warranty, years of experience to install all this kit, labour, insurance, office costs that's why it cost more and surveys. It's not free to run a business. Great clip, many thanks.

[@EVPuzzle]

Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for the installers view

[@andrewsullivan1266]

Excellent video. Very informative

[@G6EJD]

I’ve just checked my records with a similar installation and last week I exported 872Whr /Week or 125Whr/Day. I wonder if there’s a setting that needs changing? The SolarEdge reports show a similar export value. Having watched your review here, I like the idea of comparing the grid meter, against the SolarEdge, GivEnergy and MyEnergi readings for a month, the grid (charging) meter will of course need to be the reference. But like you I have already noted the SolarEdge readings have good correlation with the supply/grid metering. The problem with current transformers is they are quite linear at higher current levels and give accurate results, but at lower currents their linearity drops off markedly so if the load profile is low this is when the non-linearity shows up in mismatched readings, or another factor is the properties load power factor as this can skew the readings if not taken into account and that’s not easy to do with these simple metering solutions.

[@EVPuzzle]

Export of 125wh a day is very good. I wonder what the difference is? Are you on a hybrid inverter or AC coupled?

[@EVPuzzle]

I wonder if you have a bigger base load overnight on the house. Mine is only 70w once we shut down for the night. Half of that are the blooming inverters🤭

[@G6EJD]

@@EVPuzzle exactly the inverter you have there, only difference is an 8.2kwhr battery. I got a message from GivEnergy last week to say they will updating the firmware, not obvious if they have. I have noticed odd peaks of export at 50 to 70 watts in the graphs, I don’t know why they happen when the battery has capacity then suddenly there’s a grid feed, almost as if it’s checking on the grid then switches back, no idea why when there should be no need, it could be it needs to check the phase angle while it’s grid tied because if the angle is out when it comes to synchronising with the grid again there’s a huge in-rush current if there’s even a small phase difference. I used to work on 4MW diesel-generators and getting them to synch with the grid was really difficult and in the end you have to wait for phase meters to align, then throw a contactor to link them, when that happens there is a huge current flow, these inverters are no different.

[@EVPuzzle]

Under the system....overview.... Tab the version is visible. It's was.....524 and is now ..... 531 I think

[@G6EJD]

@@EVPuzzle OK thanks, my firmware is 524, so not updated yet it seems. I've looked at the last 4-weeks of export, which I now think is a good measure of battery sizing and I get: 1.2, 1.09.1.02 and 0.879 all in KWHr, so over 28-days an average of 149Whrs/day of export. Our average night load is ~200Watts, that's from my webserver, sky-Q, loads of IOT devices, they all add up, the lowest quiescent load I have ever seen is ~120W. We get almost hourly spikes of 1KW from the freezer, but it's only momentary, all our electrical goods are A or A++ rating. If your getting a higher value then it could be due to the ratio between Solar PV and Battery capacity, so mine is 3.92 / 8.2, if for example you have too much solar PV generating capability and the battery fills up quickly, then exporting begins, higher battery capacity prevents this as energy is always being absorbed by the battery. Its a complex subject to calculate as I've noticed during the day when its cloudy the battery takes over, then gets recharged again, so it's a continuous process until sun-down. Unfortunately there is no de-facto advice around that sizes solar PV to battery capacity. I choose 8.2KWHr because I knew our average daily house load is 8KWhr, so I tried to match them. I have the GivEnergy system in default mode. It's now mid-day and the battery is at 47% SOC, it was at 7% at 0700, but I note the washing machine and tumble drier are both on, so although we have clear skies here in Bath, and the panels are due South, that's not going to fully charge today.

[@simongeorge703]

Favoring the Solaredge inverter for a 8kw 20 panel PV array that is going in so i can take advantage of the microinverter tech. But undecided on batteries... 1 x Tesla PW, 2 x GivEnergy 9.5kw each coupled with a AC inverter to give 5kw discharge rate or a couple of Solaredge Energy Bank Batteries to avoid needing the extra inverters. Benefit of GivEnergy and Tesla is you can get battery backup in the event of the grid going off.... but the Energy Banks give you "one system integration" (although monitoring and control seems less easy). What would you recommend?

[@EVPuzzle]

Solaredge and powerwall

[@EVPuzzle]

Be aware if you go. Solaredge route of the limitations of the app regarding battery charging schedules etc. Its not the best and you need access to the profile setup.

[@simongeorge703]

@@EVPuzzle Yes that is another thing I’ve seen and heard. Need the installer view. GivEnergy and Tesla have that handled better from what I see. But short of waiting for Tesla not seeing a lot of options. Have u investigated the twin GivEnergy ac inverter each coupled with a battery approach and thus ac coupled approach? Doesn’t let you overrate the primary ac inverter for the pv array and ever harvest if they hit max efficiency. But it’s a way to get at least “control”

[@EVPuzzle]

@@simongeorge703 no, not looked further at givenergy theyre not offering what I want from a system which is a shame as the software interface is pretty good. Theres not much to beat a powerwall except Victron which gives more flexibility

[@simongeorge703]

@@EVPuzzle I’m not sensing a love for the solaredge product

[@yusufhusein4038]

Thank you Nigel👍

[@philipholme9911]

I find these videos usefull. With the amount of electrical equipment connected to the grid who do you notify and how?

[@EVPuzzle]

My Installer handles this for me, I've given him. Signed authority to contact on my behalf

[@raymondmassie4898]

I’ve installed a GivEnergy system with 2 x 5.2 kWh batteries. I’ve been having repeated problems with the inverter going offline which, according to GivEnergy is due to grid voltage fluctuations placing the inverter in a ‘safe’ mode. What’s the best way around this?

[@EVPuzzle]

Look at the reports for proof of the fluctuations and if genuine report them to the dno?

[@Hrustanovic033]

Another superb and informative video. I am considering adding the same battery to my existing system which is now 9yrs old. I currently have 2.400w solar system with 2kW SMA Sunny Boy inverter. If I was to add a 5.2 kw Givenergy battery, do i also need their inverter or can it be connected to my existing SMA inverter which is also 9yrs old now?

[@EVPuzzle]

Needs their inverter sadly

[@deang5622]

5.2kW battery?? Hmmm.

[@vegan_omad_no1802]

Great video, thanks, does it have powecut backup?

[@EVPuzzle]

Partial circuits yes not entire house

[@vegan_omad_no1802]

@@EVPuzzle would you choose when you set up which circuit?

[@EVPuzzle]

Typically your lights but think downstairs sockets might work too think it's 16amp limit

[@vegan_omad_no1802]

@@EVPuzzle as long it covers the fridge\freezer and putting in infared heating so that should be ok. Thanks again!

[@EngineerLewis]

PureDrive 5kw battery is £3157 online and I have a quote for a GivEnergy 5.2kW LifePO4 battery for £1721.50 - that is a big difference for essentially the same product. But I am sure if you have the budget it will be a better more optimised solution to use the PureDrive battery as mentioned.

[@EVPuzzle]

I'm not convinced Puredrive is good value tbh

[@jayhay3746]

Hi Nigel - what is the maximum discharge rate you can achieve from the battery in the winter?

[@EVPuzzle]

Continuous, about 4.8kw but I've seen spikes much higher for seconds. This is plenty for our use, plus solar it keeps us off the grid all day without much concern as to what we turn on

[@roseatkinson1990]

How critical is a good wifi connection for installing, monitoring and upgrading? We have download speeds of 4 or 5Mb/s and upload is around 0.7Mb/s! The location where the battery is likely to be installed is also not very close to the router.

[@EVPuzzle]

So long as you get a WiFi signal good enough to load Web pages it should be fine. There's not a lot of data going back and forth. If WiFi is in a dead zone you may need to run a cable from the router or use a WiFi extender? Speed isn't important

[@roseatkinson1990]

@@EVPuzzle Many thanks

[@duncanwestland4321]

This was really helpful, thanks.

[@intothemultiverse1033]

Can you ‘stack’ them like a powerwall and have 2 or 3 of the batteries? I have a model 3 and do about a 100 miles round trip x 3 a week. I use about 25kw for one round trip so for me to be able to reduce that cost via storage batteries would be very nice.

[@EVPuzzle]

Yes you can . Not stackable but linkable

[@intothemultiverse1033]

@@EVPuzzle cheers for the reply. Happy new year .

[@WalterTuk]

Hello, did you install it your self or did you use a dedicated PV company?

[@EVPuzzle]

Professionals only

[@willdatsun]

im thinking of getting a dc coupled system, i wonder how different the results would be?

[@EVPuzzle]

You really don't notice the difference other than the power rating differences of the inverters

[@philipwood123]

Excellent. Be interested to see a pro/con vs others chart

[@stagman4611]

Just another question can the battery be charged via another power source like a generator if required. Forgot to ask my installer and I keep asking questions and I feel I’m pestering him 😂 I’m on count down for my install just had a block built shed for housing my batteries.

[@EVPuzzle]

Most configs I've seen with a generator have the generator powering the house thus if there's an excess of power you'd be charging an AC coupled battery I guess??

[@747driver]

Thank you very much! Was interested in this product but I'll go for the Tesla Powerwall instead.

[@brear73]

Hi. Can you let me know if you can top up the givenergy battery from the grid? Thanks

[@G6EJD]

I've just been discussing the firmware update with E.ON and they explain the 524 firmware was measuring battery voltage highs' and lows' incorrectly and adjusting the upper and lower SOC thresholds such that available capacity was being reduced over time. The firmware you have 531, corrects this issue and starts to increase the available battery capacity back to a maximum, it takes a while to learn the battery characteristics after a calibration. Only a few customers have the 531 update (your one!) and they won't roll out the change until they are satisfied the problem has been corrected. Also they are adding the capability for other Agile tariffs to be supported, it appears that very soon, Octopus will not be the only agile tariff supplier!

[@EVPuzzle]

Bulb are close to releasing theirs. The only thing that concerns me is the significant slow down in charging above. 90% means you're less likely to reach 100% as it'll take an extra hour potentially. That means we lose capacity in reality. I'll be watching closely

[@G6EJD]

@@EVPuzzle I'm sure I know why that is the case, as I've noticed in the battery view that the spread of cell voltage (on 524) is relatively wide. What should happen with Li-ion, or in this case LifePO4 batteries is they are charged at a constant current rate, then switch to using a constant voltage and then finally each cell is balanced by charging individually until the voltage of each cell is the same, this can take a much longer time; but actually it's a much better charging regime to get maximum output from the batteries. Once balanced the cells are then charged to a nominal full capacity (3.6v) and then the rest of the time is trickle charging.

[@EVPuzzle]

Yep but that trickle is only useful if you have time to charge it up. They've lowered the discharge rates too at the bottom end. I guess we can't have it all. I see this as one step forward and one back

[@G6EJD]

@@EVPuzzle they seem to be more worried about battery life than capacity. I’ll give E.ON in my case a while to see this stabilise and if I see a drop in capacity then I shall approach them in a more formal way. They have assured me today I’ll see an increase in capacity after the firmware has been applied. Trickle charge would only occur after the batteries have achieved near full capacity.

[@EVPuzzle]

Yep. As an example I reached 98% today and yet had loads on sunshine. Those last few % are harder to get now but if the overall capacity is higher I guess that's ok

[@weshopandship3889]

Hi, I am proposing a 2.5kWp PV system (due to roof restrictions), with inverter integrated in each panel. is a 5.2 kWh battery suitable?

[@danielbazinga]

Do you have all 6kw of pv going through the same inverter? Do you find that it creates much of a loss having an inverter that is smaller than the size of the array max? Im looking at solar and receiving mixed information regarding how to size an inverter

[@EVPuzzle]

No I use seperate inverters. Depends on orientation, shading, string lengths etc. If the panels generate enough power go for a bigger inverter. If they don't save the money and use a smaller one

[@danielbazinga]

@@EVPuzzle 25 degrees off south, westward. No shading, based in the north east. Will be getting a 5.6 or 6kw system. Had some installers recommending only a 3.6kw inverter for the whole system. As a newbie to this, it seems quite low and that I’d lose a lot of the potential generation that could be going into my car. What would be your thoughts on this ?

[@lharris828]

How sad that this is no longer possible, Nigel. No equipment and no installation and all prices up over 50% - and wait until next year ......

[@philiphughes5120]

You need a 5kw hybrid inverter with 2 8.2 batteries less trade discount of around 20% plus installation is a lot less than a powerwall.

[@EVPuzzle]

Trade discount sounds good

[@philiphughes5120]

@@EVPuzzle Also at renuenergy list price is less than midsummers

[@paulbrowne5049]

@@philiphughes5120 I googled Renu energy but came up with an Australian company. Do you have their UK details?

[@dalemoore11]

Great review, I still haven't been able to turn on the agile setting

[@EVPuzzle]

I've given them the benefit of the doubt a few times but it's starting to feel like they say things work then when you try to use them they don't. Upgraded to new firmware yesterday. Failed as no usb installed in the battery . Sort of my mistake but not well documented either. Took nearly 12 hours to dump out the energy and import back from the grid before battery started working again. Nearly 9kwh of grid energy used yesterday when should've been 0.6kwh. Firmware upgrades had better not be like this ongoing.

[@dalemoore11]

@@EVPuzzle bloody hell thats alot to waste, I've been doing all my talking to them on email think I'll ring them today. Mine started exporting at 6pm had about 35% left but without the agile settings it might of been better keeping the 35% to use in the house. Still waiting for my paperwork and certificates for the solar and battery installation I'll get a picture for you later cheers pal

[@tobiaszszczepocki]

@@dalemoore11 Im planing to get an 8.2kwh battery from them, are you happy from givenergy, would you reconned thier system?

[@dalemoore11]

@@tobiaszszczepocki I'm very happy with hardware the software need to get better but tbf it's getting updated most months, there is better out there but for the money probably not 👍🏼

[@ellis715]

It feels like a lot of the problems are a UI issue that could be fixed with an update

[@EVPuzzle]

That and the firmware for balancing the grid at low base loads. Needs tweaking for efficiency or allowing a user parameter to adjust to suit

[@iainmackay9269]

Is there a current sensor so battery will charge when excess solar power available from existing panels

[@EVPuzzle]

Yes and it's linked to an EM115 meter so supposed to be quite accurate

[@Mr31Vince]

Can I set days of the week charge and discharge times as my tarrif has a weekend rate?

[@psjvirtualreality397]

Very helpful. Thanks

[@DVDsNFC]

Good info thank you.

[@theoteam4641]

How long would this battery last you in an event of a blackout?

[@EVPuzzle]

This one wasn't configured for backup

[@theoteam4641]

@@EVPuzzle ah ok

[@nosh121081]

Can i double up the invertir to prduce 5.6kw of discharge energy

[@EVPuzzle]

It's possible but I'm hearing only certain configs of multiple inverters works. I have a friend with 2 X AC3 working well

[@nosh121081]

@@EVPuzzle thanks 😊

[@AllElectricLiving]

There’s certainly some good features around octopus agile tariff which I would really like on my powerwall 2 ( maybe one day )

[@JBoy340a]

Nice review. We have Powerwall 2s here in the US, and are quite happy with them, but are always looking for something better. In addition to the Tesla provided monitor app, there is a nice interface for programmatically getting data via HTTP. I have a RaspberryPi running a program I wrote that polls and updates a Postgres DB every two minutes. So anything else would have to have a similar capability.

[@EVPuzzle]

Powerwall is a great system just needs a bit more access to data. The market is moving quickly but there's room for a system with a next level software interface

[@CoastalEV]

Great video as always - In the prices at the end you compare it to a Tesla Powerwall by pricing two batteries and two inverters - I thought I had seen in the brochure that you can stack up to 5 batteries per invester?

[@EVPuzzle]

Yes but 2 or each equals powerwall values of power output and capacity. 2 inverters needed for increased power output

[@anthonycraig274]

Can i add my own battery to this system or is it only compatible with its own battery?

[@EVPuzzle]

It's proprietary battery only

[@lawrenceharris1819]

To this day, I never received any reply from my enquiry to GE except to be told that they were too busy to deal with customers and might respond at some time in the future - which they never did. Yep - it happens!

[@EVPuzzle]

Yet on social media they seem to reply quickly. It seems some slip through the net. I have a friend who needed a new inverter recently and it took a week because of covid but they sorted it.

[@bruceharrison9798]

Gr8 well balanced review, thanks Nigel

[@lharris828]

This is now a year ago and the eqp seems to be unavailable.

[@CrashUK28]

how much did the battery cost to install and any electrician install the system.

[@EVPuzzle]

A professional installer installed it. It's a test system so no price. It's one of the cheaper systems though

[@rafiksa2903]

How much price Sir

[@EVPuzzle]

I suggest you try a Google service of the model you're interested in, there are a few wholesalers advertising on the Internet

[@TeamYankee2]

Any updates on this in 2022 ?

[@EVPuzzle]

Yes, I do monthly updates

[@robertwhite2818]

My GivEnrgy battery doesn't even connect to the WiFi, the dongle won't recognise any WiFi boosters even when 30 cms away from it, at the moment the name should be Doesn't give energy. Two weeks waiting so far!!!

[@neilbridgeman7768]

It is a non-started at those prices. Also no islanding mode which the PW2 has. Anyone that has done their homework will not invest in one of these at those prices.

[@yusufhusein4038]

Also, EDF give me an almost identical deal ( GoElectric35- valid until Aug23) as Octopus Agile. Does anyone know if it’s compatible with GivEnergy battery and inverter ?

[@EVPuzzle]

EDF won't be automated you'll just set manual timers

[@nickstephens7785]

Hi Nigel I am installing the GIV energy system with 5.2 Hybrid & 8.2 battery. I can have either panels producing 4.26kw or 3.55 kw. If I go with 4.26 I need DNO which takes 3 months. Would the GIV energy system be able to gain much extra from having the 4.2 output or would I just as well off going with the 3.55kw which doesn't need DNO so can be installed straight away? The 4.2kw system is extra £1800. Thanks

[@EVPuzzle]

Be aware some installers exaggerate DNO times as they just want a quick turn. Always get as much solar as you can. It's worth the wait, if any. Extra 1800 seems expensive for 700w I've got 4kw with 3.68 inverter, doesn't need dno, compromise and go for that?

[@nickstephens7785]

@@EVPuzzle Thank you for the info.

[@ecotts]

That Givenergy AC Coupled invertor is piss poor to be honest, it has no hardwired ethernet network connection. It relies on an old 2.4Ghz (only) USB WiFi dongle which cost £49.99, designed for an invertor which ships with a 10 year warranty. Meaning realistically you're very likely to going to need to buy yet another dongle down the road as routers, Wifi AP manufacturers slowly start to phase out older saturated 2.4Ghz for newer advancing technologies on less cluttered frequencies. We are already seeing WIFI6, WIFI6E, WIFI7 routers and NICs and others are yet to come over the next 10 years (i.e over the life of the inverter warranty). The same way they dropped 802.11a / b / g in allot of newer router devices its just a matter of time until they do the same again, in which case you will have to fork out yet another £49.00 for yet another USB WIFI dongle. Annoyingly, this AC Coupled invertor actually has a unused RJ45 port located under the communications panel on the underside which has no use. Is it an IP Ethernet connection which they added in case they ever had WIFI issues, is it a port they from a daughter board used in another invertor which actually has a chipset to utilise it which they just reused, or is it a legit ethernet port that GivEnergy has just never enabled so they can offer this AC Coupled inverter at a reasonable price and then bumping it back up by making you buy a wifi dongle. Who the fk knows? Hopefully someone can do a tear down if their AC Coupled invertor fails and they've decided to change it out for another manufacturers equipment.

[@stevewalsh-balshaw1727]

How do folk on normal wages doing normal jobs .....bus driver supermarket check out etc afford this set up when they struggle to buy food on crap wages no doubt it's good but how do the masses pay for it installing

[@EVPuzzle]

It's a choice not an extra in my opinion. Some folk won't be able to afford it no doubt but others can choose instead of a new phone, tablet, holiday, bigger TV and all the other life accessories folk buy on normal wages. It's not crazy money really. But of course not everyone wants to compromise, prioritise or choose these things. Personally, I haven't earned a taxable income in 12 years! Cheap energy makes it easier to live on a low income

[@CoastalEV]

Do you know what the minimum charging rate of the battery is?

[@EVPuzzle]

I've seen 100w but haven't really got the granularity to see lower values

[@CoastalEV]

@@EVPuzzle 100w is good- I’ve seen some that have a min of 2.5kw!!!

[@EVPuzzle]

Heavens above that's the Mac not minimum 😬😮

[@douglaswares8296]

Im looking to get a Givenergy 8.2 KWH battery and 3.6kKW AC inverter installed in my utility room on a stud wall. These are quite heavy. Can the support brackets be fitted securely on a stud wall such that the battery and inverter can be supported.

[@eddyd8745]

the battery but the capacity has now reduced even further to 22.26 Ah

[@sygad1]

No wonder this isn't more mainstream, ridiculously confusing, massively expensive and the lack of a simplified interface to get an overview of what energy has been used vs money spent/saved......I would love to get Solar and Battery to offset, I just don't want to invest both financially and mentally the amount of effort to understand it and the eternal fear of making a costly mistake.

[@EVPuzzle]

To be fair once installed you can forget it if you choose to buy the fiddly is there for the nerds too

[@vicramaco]

Nah I want to total control. No cloud management by remote entities.

[@yusufhusein4038]

Sorry* ‘I’ve not seen addressed’

[@dalemoore11]

First get in!

[@EVPuzzle]

First wins the top fab prize . A mention in a future vid. Could you send a pic of your install over on my email? [e-mail]

[@normanpouch]

Graphs won't save the planet. Too much information and what will you do with it. This seems all man thing. Who drives at 30 mph in their car? no one. It's all getting a bit silly and I sell this stuff.

[@EVPuzzle]

What a daft comment. If you don't understand the data or graphs how can you sell a good system, its user interface is key with smarter products going forward. Are you old school just selling hardware? And sorry but Norfolk is slower than other counties. Avg speed is often 30

[@normanpouch]

@@EVPuzzle I am from Slow Suffolk so we are way slower than you. Most of my customers just want cheap energy, but that ain't going to happen now. My electric bill has gone up 100% in two years. Good for solar and batteries. Keep plugging solar, please.

[@domoticzvp2412]

interesting but VERY LONG

[@EVPuzzle]

Some like that