TWC Case Study || Tina: Extreme OCD Case

[@memeguyTM]

Folks, notice something. You won't see something like this on Zak George videos or Victoria Stillwells drama show because they are just suitable for the everyday puppy and not real problem dogs.

[@IvanBalabanov]

Agreed. Everyone has become so comfortable either talking about how difficult a dog is but *never show a video or show a normal dog labeled as a “problem” dog ….

[@thankmelater1254]

@@IvanBalabanov I am helping with a "rescue dog" which needed to be taken by car to the park because it was so terrified of traffic to walk on the city street. I tried slow approach and calm sitting with at a distance from the road, but anxiety was too much even at a one hundred yards distance. By luck I thought to get a prong collar and do crazy zig zag movements in every direction until the dog could only follow, not think, and I did that right up onto the road and there he walked on loose leash, nervously but he did it. Now if I let him he he pulls toward that road with tail up. Still though, any other loud noises like a cricket bat hitting the ball the other day as we walked, and he freaks out for a day and even refuses to look at me :). I give him no food until he decides to socialize, but man, it takes some thinking to break through these phobia problems!

[@Hayri2011]

Or...we don't force the dog into stressful situations to make a video. Because the dog's welfare overrides our ego.

[@thankmelater1254]

@@Hayri2011 So you don't make a video showing how to overcome stressful situations because the dog is stressed in stressful situations. Have you thought of working for the government?

[@memeguyTM]

@@Hayri2011 so you do it behind closed doors right....then your incompetence can't be exposed

[@ricardocarneiro7797]

Look forward to see how Tina progresses!! Her brain desperately needs to focus on something else other than licking the floor and the walls.... will love to see how she learns the games and finally finds meaning.

[@littleninjai222]

So great for the world to see the genius at work for more than just IGP. Thank you for sharing.

[@PARoth2011]

Interestingly, what is disturbing to me is how familiar I am with versions of this type of behavior. I’ve had 3 stallions like this and a rescued dog. Imho, what she is obsessively doing is self-soothing to her mind. When children, as newborns and older live in understaffed orphanages, they do not get the care and attention they need but more specifically, they do not form a bond with a specific caretaker they can depend on which leads to things like neural connections not forming and behavioral problems like self-soothing, neurotic behaviors. I have walked this road. With love, empathy, structure, consistency, learning to play and the invitation to form a bond she will be able to shift her focus and her behaviors. She is in the best of hands. My heart goes out to Tina. ❤

[@thomasmarchese2808]

100% worked with a mali in a professional setting. She was a kennel spinner. Completely bat shit out of her mind. Some proper training and she is so much more relaxed and calm and you can see her think now. Not just aajjdjfkkdjsbsndndndnb!!!!!!! 24/7. No amount of cookies will do that. The difference real training and teaching and leadership makes.

[@rico4you]

What patience and dedication! Bravo

[@mgsweeney99]

A little relationship building - boundaries - structure - nice clear communication, this could be a really nice dog!!

[@alexandrawhitelock6195]

Disagree. Dog with a severe neurological condition.

[@randalsaul6612]

I just realized that my 15 year old Shepard collie mix has ocd. I never new that dogs could have mental disorders. Thanks ivan for tackling the real problems of dogs and not be another Zac the hack George.

[@IvanBalabanov]

Thank you. Hope you can help your dog

[@Mira7xz]

People can mistake. And there's a lot of mistakes in the internet. Filter the information - especially from the internet. This dog (and possibly your's) is anxious, extremely stressed and has gastritis (liking) out of stress. But doesn't meet any criteria of dog's compulsive disorder.

[@pittymama4500]

​​@@Mira7xzunless you can say you have achieved what this man has you have no right to speak because you're talking about the greatest trainer there is and you think that you know more than him? I'd say this is a little bit more than just some anxiety.

[@Mira7xz]

@@pittymama4500 Unless you can think critically instead of blindly believing the "greatest trainers", we have nothing to discuss. Believe as much as you want. Or you can look up applied ethology and veterinarian books and read the criteria yourself.

[@Mira7xz]

​@@pittymama4500 Unless you can think critically instead of blindly believing authorities we have nothing to discuss. You can believe as much as you like. And you're right, it's not just some anxiety. It's a lot of anxiety that probably will stay with this dog at some level forever. As I said, it seems to be a disease - gastritis (any disease should be diagnosed by veterinarian) and high level of stress (which could lead to gastritis). All this affects on dog's behaviour. I don't say I know more, I say that in this video this particular dog doesn't meet the criteria of dog's compulsive behaviour. Maybe the trainer meant something else by OCD, I don't know, he didn't answer me. But this is a questionable diagnosis and should also be confirmed by a veterinarian. And it seems to be this trainer is not one of them.

[@ericacampau7799]

What a case!! Thanks for posting a full view of the issues here Ivan! Going out in public with your shirt on with an out of control dog, not sure any other trainers would do the same, they are only interested in showing the finished product with no (perceived) issues. Ditto to letting her do her thing while you have coffee and observe. Others - tied to a place bed is what I might expect. Putting the dogs emotions first for sure. Tina is in good hands. Can’t wait to see the next update.

[@gcwilson1]

Agree 100%!! Thanks Ivan

[@michaelcurtis2373]

I can't even begin to imagine what is going through her mind.

[@thomasmarchese2808]

Tbh. It’s not much. When dogs are like this it’s not what’s going through their mind it’s what isn’t. It’s just aaaaaaaaahhhjhjdjdjsbbsb! 24/7 it’s not calm intentional thinking it’s just doing anything and everything they want to try and get to a better place in their head but have no clue how. They’re basically insane. But because of real training we can tell them hey let me show you. And change their whole world. And it can happen very fast. Of course change can happen fast but it takes time to solidify that. Much like when a trainer takes the leash and says see. They can do it. Dog isn’t fixed. Yet. But it shows how fast proper leadership bring peace comfort and calmness to a dog that’s basically losing their damn mind. I’ve seen German shepherds paw at kennels till they bleed. It’s the same thing. It’s also what happens to humans in solitary confinement. We lose our damn minds because of under stimulation and many other things. Add the fact that dogs don’t understand our world they live in (because they’re domesticated and live in populated areas. Which is why you don’t see batshit crazy coyotes and wolves.) it’s very very interesting to see and deal with. Sad but also interesting. That’s why we do it.

[@vikingdogmanship]

This dog has so much potential 🤩 Thank you for helping her❤️ Blessings

[@Mari-te4cc]

I just saw the latest video and came back to see again how Tina was at the beginning, what an amazing transformation Mr. Balabanov!

[@lestoid]

I’m so grateful I didn’t see this until after I had seen her transformation. I might’ve ended up in tears… That poor baby. You did a beautiful job, she looks very calm and settled, while still being extremely energetic!

[@IvanBalabanov]

@@lestoid thank you

[@cristindsz]

Ivan I just heard your Annie podcast and came back to rewatch. Thank you for all the good work you do and sorry for all the people that unfortunately don’t understand it.

[@amandaeast3114]

I got my little MinPin from a shelter, they suggested he might have OCD. He had been dumped at the shelter, been through a lot of adoptions trials, all failed. He acted a lot like Tina, not quite as extreme, but could be in some environments. I watched him struggle with being over the top reactive to movement, barking, lunging, never still, always worried, the licking, turning circles, etc. While he was good at nose work, his behavior wasn't welcomed and there was no way to trial him. In fact, I couldn't even take him to this summers fun nose work events, because I knew he couldn't handle it. I did decide to put him on medications, it seems to have helped reduce a lot of his OCD behaviors. Now, instead of everyone talking about how crazy he acts, they talk about how much calmer and well mannered he is. They actually ask us back. I will be watching Tina and see how she progresses. I have been so in the dark as how to work with my little dog, because no one really shows it and what can be done to help dogs like this.

[@watchmoivies123]

Can I ask what medication you put it on? Thank you.

[@TheeWarriorPrincess]

I had a similar rescue experience- the dog was all over me all the time and had treat addiction he picked up from the rehab center literally! So sad!

[@BuddhatheRockstar]

This was extremely helpful. I had a dog I fostered that had OCD. The only difference was she did not lick the floor. She did bite anything that moved.

[@KarmaFlight]

If Ivan can’t fix her, nobody can.

[@alexandradittmann8588]

Agreed!

[@cataylor09]

Truly amazing work, Ivan! I didn’t know I had an OCD dog back in the day. She ran after car and pretty much anything that moved fast or people with high energy.

[@IvanBalabanov]

Thankbyou

[@panther7681]

It's sad to witness how unstable the mental state of this dog is. Thankfully, there are people like you exist. You are such an amazing trainer Ivan! This is the realm where Zac, Susan, VS, etc never dare to touch because they know they couldn't handle.

[@IvanBalabanov]

We are in agreement here

[@pittymama4500]

I will say Susan is in a category all alone on her training and if she runs into something she has not had before she is good at assessing and figuring something out so she might be one that might eventually figure it out but it will take a long time. I don't say this about anybody else in that community but, I do like Susan's techniques for the piece of the pie that is positive, but not limiting myself to that.

[@OfficialSnowmanjetski]

It’s a lot of dogs lol this in a shelter unfortunately

[@liesalllies]

The sound of her stress panting made my dog look at my phone in concern. I hope she can find some peace, she sure is cute but oh my the behaviors. I'm exhausted!

[@blind_ninja]

It would be of great interest to open up a discussion on what could cause this behavior, especially so owners both current and prospective could take proactive steps to prevent it! Imho too much crate time isn’t the culprit.

[@MaximillianandRubyGrace]

I agree. I often wonder what happened

[@BuddhatheRockstar]

I fostered a dog like this. She was a bulldog mix so I was able to handle her. I question the quality of life when dogs live this way. What I loved seeing was how calm Ivan stayed💞

[@l26wang]

Car reactivity, inside car reactivity, hyper arousal, sensitivity to random objects. Reminds me of our dog so much. Very much looking forward to this series and your approaches.

[@watchmoivies123]

Sorry, and I forgot to say but I know he can’t help sometimes I see him really trying, and that makes my day

[@LauraHopkinsCDL]

Poor dog has desperate need of help. Her mind is in a frantic place. Hopefully you can show her a better way to be Ivan.

[@jneher2992]

Does she ever rest?her heart ❤️.must be so very strong.thank you for working with this dog.I am following her story with you.very interested when and if she will connect mentally with you.

[@IvanBalabanov]

Yes she actually does take good long naps It’s an amazing case. More to come

[@mollasima3251]

​​@@IvanBalabanovnything more in Tina? Shes def a neurotic dog. I had a dog like this back in the 2000's. He was with me for 13 years. He was crazy, but i loved him so much.

[@IvanBalabanov]

@@mollasima3251 this it what Tina now kzbin.info/www/bejne/hovZiYaupbuihpo

[@tamarindaschreuder6388]

Thank you for sharing this with us. I find that a lot of people who have always had 'easy' dogs are very judgemental of people struggling with dogs that have issues. This shows just what some people are up against. I can only imagine how Tina must be feeling when she behaves like this. I would love to follow her story, but the video text at the end cuts of just before you tell us how.

[@DeeJazz]

@@RealMeatyBalls so truth

[@IvanBalabanov]

Just need to subscribe to the channel to follow

[@DeeJazz]

@@IvanBalabanov I AM 😃

[@suzekoo4891]

This is what my malinois was like when I got her at 1 year after multiple previous owners. I was told it's a normal dog when buying her, though, seller was "astonished" when I told them.

[@baylamakarov8701]

This is very upsetting to see. I’m sure her transformation with you is astonishing

[@kyleranney8930]

Great video. Thank you

[@eartheclipse9623]

I never named what Anubis does, but some of it is like this, if you turn on a torch he's chasing shadows, if you make finger shadows on the walls, he knows your hands make them. He gets better daily, so hopefully it's just puppy/adolescent stuff, he's only 1.5yo atm.

[@kierilf]

What a mess. I am looking forward to learning more about how to resolve this.

[@MegaMaestroz]

Hey this it by showing your methodology in every day worst case scenarios makes it more interesting

[@ewa7709]

i can onlly think about how tired and exhausted she is bc of all the energy she uses to check everything out. She is sooo scared, it must be soo exhausting

[@inkwhiskers9948]

What an extreme case! Wow.

[@perrogerstjerne6166]

Had a dog like that at home for four months. He had previously been tied to a barn for five years, not housetrained at all, no commands. After a while he settled nicely inside the house with my other two dogs, but outside ... wow, just like that, but a lot more noise. He could not be left inside the house, even with my other dogs, without barking until I came back. I could not manage that dog along with my other two, but he was not aggressive. The breeder ended up with the dog, but later I heard he was put down. Hopefully I will learn more from watching this.

[@kat7011]

How wonderful!

[@simonturner1256]

She's right about the tape on the mirror Ivan. Get it sorted!

[@IvanBalabanov]

I know :)

[@cretudavid8622]

Poor dog, Both camps, balanced and PO would destroy such a dog. Thanks Ivan for saving Tina!

[@watchmoivies123]

I have a dog very similar to Tina but he does not like the floor I’m so glad Tina is with you because no one else would be able to help this dog and I watch the video of her laying quietly with you in the living room, so I’m hoping this one was a few months ago What are your thoughts about her being able to be a fairly socialized dog? My dog is almost 3 years old and I’ve been working with him every day. Sometimes I see a lot of progress and sometimes he goes way way back but he’s my dog. No one else would be able to work with him so I keep on going and try to love him dearly but sometimes his behaviors drives me nuts.

[@sarahbrandao6028]

Ivan, I have a case worst than this one. It's my dog. I'd like to share a video with you if it is possible.

[@IvanBalabanov]

Absolutely!

[@thankmelater1254]

Don't need the Roomba anymore.

[@gmagee100]

any updates on Tina?

[@IvanBalabanov]

Coming soon. She has become very cool dog

[@joeferraro1594]

Hi Ivan my hat is off to you I watched the second video of you working Tina unbelievable!!!!😊🐶

[@hannahmccoy8336]

Where will the updates on this dog be posted

[@IvanBalabanov]

They are shared with the TWC Certified Trainers in the TWC Academy.

[@watchmoivies123]

I had asked you a couple of times how Tina was doing if you rehomed her are you still have her and also I wondered how ice was doing

[@Aswodel]

So scary to watch this dog pull like that at such a small single leash, I would wear a backup leash for this one being scared the leash might fail one day.

[@WorkingKNeun]

Ivan, this dog looks a lot like a dog that someone used a laser pointer with. Does she show excessive behavior when she sees lights, more so flickering or pulsing lights?

[@panzertooE-CollartrainingPAGER]

The licking is handler apathy because this handler is extremely handsy it’s almost unbelievable the handlers inability to keep hands still .this isn’t a complex case get a wireless line installed

[@dragonryderslair]

Ivan I can see why Tina is as she is. She is so insecure in her inner world that she is desperate for some structure and guiding. So sad to see an animal in such a state. It angers me that some one would put a dog or any creature in any situation to create this much anxiety. Or if this was an intentional breeding gone wrong the the breeders should be investigated and shut down.

[@clojap]

I know floor licking can be attributed to things like acid reflux, this one seems extreme though.

[@annwhiteside1126]

My 3 1/2 yo GSD is similar in some ways. She has really challenged me. I’ve had GS’s since 1982. She’s my 5th one, but if she’d been the 1st I don’t think I’d have had 4 more. She has epilepsy which started when she was 3 1/2 months old. It’s treated daily & mostly under control with potassium bromide. I’ve had one non GS, along with 4 previous ones, who I rescued. He also had epilepsy. There are many similarities btwn them. Bear had uncontrolled, worse, grand mal seizures even on phenobarbital & after 5 yrs of living with me, passed away from it. He was, I believe, a mix, but looked like a flat coat retriever

[@annwhiteside1126]

I’ve never given up on a dog & won’t give up on Baylee. She’s the smartest shepherd, & only working line, I’ve had. She’s also a rescue from a puppy mill breeder. Her mom’s paper's are in Romanian .. Sire was AKC. She wants to work all the time. I’m learning, everything I thought I already knew from her .. Every doorway, everyday, is a training opportunity. She loves people, but is super reactive to other dogs , tho we do controlled “pack walks”. I wish I wasn’t 69 & disabled, but I’m not giving up. My last black GSD, Buddy, I trained as my service dog. He went on airplanes, inside the plane with me. She wants to be a K9…. & I probably would have found a job with LE for her were it not for her epilepsy & dog reactiveness. She’s my best friend & companion. I raised my own 2 kids with those previous 4 German Shepherds, while my 3 yo granddaughter has only given this one treats in her kennel, at this point. I’m pretty sure they’ll be best friends at some point in the future tho. Thanks for showing the CHALLENGES that are sometimes SO DIFFICULT. If she lives to be 14, I’ll be 80. Hoping & praying I’ll be able to care for her her whole life. She has awful separation anxiety, as my other dog with epilepsy did, as well. Escape artists extraordinaire! Following & grateful for all you share.

[@user-bm3ts2ql6s]

poor thing

[@Mira7xz]

Where's the criteria of OCD?

[@rehabilitatingbuzzy3281]

What a nutcase. Ivan, I love your training videos. And in this one you show that with some handler's skill there is not one thing wrong with using a retractable leash!!! I'm so bored with beginners blaming the equipment. It's the surest sign of inexperience. And once the dog is trained, you can walk them on a strand of overcooked spaghetti. Anyway, Tina is physically beautiful and once you fix her brain, she will be all around amazing.

[@koushikaudhya2766]

What is the full form of OCD

[@IvanBalabanov]

not sure what exactly you're asking

[@suzy7301]

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

[@762longrange]

What causes this ?

[@trez2187]

Gotta luv a dog that hates Camaro's ( 1:37 mark )

[@DvrDwn]

Clean floors and 1/2 way up your walls. Looking at the bright side.

[@kyleranney8930]

Would you say this is caused by genetics? Or neglect? Both?

[@Nocomment552]

BioPsychoSocial. Could be a mix of biology, psychology, and social conditioning. You never really unless you look into the genetics and familial history, the psychological influences, as well as the social influences when it comes to mental illness/disorders in any animal. As someone who deals with OCD tendencies due to mental illness, my heart goes out to the poor pup.

[@samwell707]

Her drive is redlining nonstop

[@mlatte2174]

Great work as I have watched her progress! Sad to see vaccine injured dogs.

[@trumpsaid3550]

Caused by vaccine?

[@robeccs]

Just toss the mop and irobot roomba if you have Tina.😆🍻✌🏽

[@tomashenderson1873]

What is she a Malinois or Dutch Shepherd??

[@watchmoivies123]

This for sure is breeding to me and not a learned thing unless she was born in a crate and lived in one her whole life

[@DeeJayResist]

Genetics for sure

[@watchmoivies123]

@@DeeJayResist You know it appears to be genetic but this can actually be taught also with lack of stimulation and exercise if the dog was in a crate its whole life and if it’s a working dog that needs to work this could just drive that dog crazy so I guess unless we really know the store this dog we could say it’s genetic until we know that it could not be that’s all I had to say

[@watchmoivies123]

@@DeeJayResist Hoping to hear back from Ivan with the story of this dog or possibly the owner could chime in

[@dognerd7385]

I bet 100 bucks this dog's previous owner used a laser pointer on her. So sad. I'm glad she's getting the help she needs now.

[@Kaderlid13]

In more cases than not dogs like Tina didn’t experience abuse of any kind, not even with Laserpointer games. What drives these dogs crazy (besides the genetic component which ist most likely adding to the overall behavior issues) is NO communication at all. NO rules, NO borders, NO interaction. And - in case of a thoroughbred working dog like this: NO job. NO life purpose. Who knows - perhaps she should be “ just a nice pet”?

[@dognerd7385]

@@Kaderlid13 I’ve seen many dogs with OCD from laser pointers, this dog has all the signs. People who don’t know better use them on high energy dogs quite often. Of course there is a genetic component as well as a lack of structure contributing to the behavior, but when it’s this extreme, it’s pretty much always because of a laser pointer or similar.

[@watchmoivies123]

@@dognerd7385 well I kind of agree with you and for sure could drive a High drive Dog crazy like that but I also have a dog like that and never used a laser on him

[@googletoldme2292]

She cleans the floor what more could you ask !!!

[@Kaderlid13]

😢

[@catholic_canine]

Haha front clip harness and treats…obviously he just wasn’t using them right😅

[@Erin_29]

My sister in laws 2 border collies act just like this. But hey, they are crated all hours of the day/night, not allowed to run or have any training or jobs. It's beyond abuse.

[@jakeb1778]

Why not put the dog in a harness? Obviously the flat collar is not going to deter pulling and the dog is constantly lunging and choking itself out on the collar.. this is my problem with balanced trainer in general. I have no issues with appropriate correcrion but in the "balanced"world there is much less consideration for the dog wellbeing

[@gmagee100]

he wanted to see the genesis of the ocd before putting a plan together. He was observing the true nature without corrections. I would like to see the finished product from a learning point of view.

[@accufab]

You think a harness deters pulling? Ask suggest you ask a sled dog.

[@angelescobar1761]

And I thought my pitbull/lab was anxious 😟

[@watchmoivies123]

Can you please tell us her story

[@dogtrainingsuraksha2129]

Sir, OCD, is psychology problem??

[@primalcritters]

Looks like a Malinois x WL German Shepherd.

[@brianatto6751]

Hey lntroduce to ceasar the dog whisperer maybe he can wisper to lt Give him achance bro u just never know .

[@tomashenderson1873]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Sharon-pf2te]

Maybe if she had a chance to burn off some of that energy off leash for a couple hours you’d see a different dog. I’m not into labels for dogs

[@Krapvag]

check out the latest video update on tina

[@Barks_Bridge_bu]

🤦‍♂🤦‍♂

[@michelewood925]

My dog paces and pants like this inside. Border color

[@alexandrawhitelock6195]

Poor dog,s brain…🙄🤦‍♀️

[@dominiclutaos]

All that The Dog Daddy would do to this dog is yank and yank its neck.

[@MaximillianandRubyGrace]

True

[@lasumm]

I have mixed feelings about dogs like this. On the one hand, it seems ridiculous to try to save dogs like this when there are so many dogs with calmer brains who need help. On the other hand, the only way we learn more is to have an extremely knowledgeable and experienced trainer dedicate full effort to these most difficult dogs. To call this just unchanneled drive is way off base. This is a chaotic and abnormal brain chemistry. Drive, when given outlet and opportunity, results in driviness, not ocd behaviors. She needs major encouragement just to even consider a toy. That is not unchanneled drive.

[@watchmoivies123]

I hear what you’re saying but again if the dog was born in a crate and it lived in a crate it’s gonna take a long long long time for this behavior to leave her body not just one or two training sessions but again I hear what you’re saying we’ll see what happens hopefully Ivan will chime in on this and let us know what happens with her but again whether it’s genetic or learn through lack of it’s gonna take a long long time and possibly not be fixed

[@watchmoivies123]

Maybe the owners love her very dearly and wants to try their best to help her even if she’s not a stable pet even 50% would be a great plus for this dog i’m not a fan of pharmaceuticals but possibly for a little while with this dog could help her It also could be something worse like a tumor that’s why I asked if the dog had all kinds of bloodwork and x-rays to make sure the dog is healthy but I guess this is the last I’m going to chime in on this and wait for Ivan to come in and tell us a little bit more about this dog I feel bad for her because I do have Border Collie’s and they could be very obsessive and crazy also

[@lasumm]

@@watchmoivies123 - It says at the beginning that she was scheduled to be EU’d by the shelter. And I should have clarified in my opinion that I consider there to be a huge difference between working on very difficult behaviors in an owned dog versus a homeless dog.

[@watchmoivies123]

Oh this was so good and I also have Border Collie‘s and I have one very similar to Tina and I would never let him go. He’s my dog and I could never put him to sleep. I also could try some sedatives, but I’m trying not to at this time. Thank you very much for standing up for the dogs. I kind of actually blame the breeders

[@raven4720]

same as a Mongolian wild horse Ivan, thats why we still have to learn from reality not form their fake science

[@MT-if1jr]

Kooko for coco puffs lol

[@xandervalltessa3685]

Just like there are mentally ill people there are mentally ill dogs. Unlike with people euthanasia is usually the kindest option in cases like this. Obviously she can never ever be in an inexperienced family setting . A disaster that will lead to her being put down. Every dog can’t be saved That is fact!

[@IvanBalabanov]

We did save this one 🥂 she is not the dog you see in this video anymore