“Two Brands, Two Websites, You’re in for a Disaster” | Dragons’ Den

[@guessyou1499]

They continued on “HOPE & IVY” -They are still doing well in ASOS -Peter and Deborah are still in.

[@vegn_brit5176]

I saw they also sell the brand on Zalando!!

[@Meg_F]

They have expanded abroad as well and doing really well.

[@reecemichael2700]

I really think their designs are really attractive!! I'm happy to hear they're doing well.

[@0000-q1h]

Thanks

[@GSkuzx]

Thank you for the comment!

[@HHHKingofKings58]

78k is not going to go very far so I'll give you 78k for 40% of your company

[@thomasdalton1508]

That makes sense. If he expects to be diluted by subsequent investment rounds, he would want to start out with a higher percentage so he still has a decent share after dilution.

[@HHHKingofKings58]

@@thomasdalton1508 Complete non sequitur

[@thomasdalton1508]

@@HHHKingofKings58 It is not a non sequitur. I'm explaining why him thinking 78k wouldn't go very far leads to him requiring a larger percentage.

[@HHHKingofKings58]

@@thomasdalton1508 No, that statement from him and my comment both have nothing to do with the concern of being diluted.

[@thomasdalton1508]

@@HHHKingofKings58 Absolutely they do. If it won't go very far that means he'll soon need more. That will lead to dilution.

[@Do_not_assume]

I just think Touker was being EXTREMELY GREEDY. He tried to downplay their success but he got shafted. He knew they wanted him but I'm glad they made the right choice.

[@jasminegoertler9549]

He knew he was asking for way more than he should have because he thought they would fall for it but luckily they knew that too

[@user-sf9gs2pg1b]

I think he wanted the other sharks to go out by convincing them not to go in so that they practically had to take his deal or nothing.

[@tiernodiallo1]

@@user-sf9gs2pg1b *dragons

[@itszenbaby]

Those tactics are so slimy. I remember in an older episode Touker did the same thing, downplaying the size of the opportunity and making the entrepreneur feel like their product needed a lot of work, then he asked for a higher percentage, thinking this method would put other dragons off investing and the entrepreneurs would see him as more valuable. Instead the smart entrepreneurs saw straight through it and didn’t choose Toukers deal. They said it was because he showed a lack of passion for the product, which is how this reverse-psychology technique can backfire.

[@pauldenby2886]

@@itszenbaby Precisely... Touker played himself. And OOF that 40% though... what a vampire. Especially considering such a high turnover with good margins.

[@khotsopitso3500]

Touka played his cards very well there by throwing everyone off. He just forgot to offer office space. That could have tipped the scales into side.

[@michaelwallden7261]

that is because he has no free space to offer at the momen

[@LadyHeathen82]

*Touker

[@englishbob5106]

Touka was being greedy ,but at the same time he didn't want the business

[@susanwaugh3885]

@English Bob He wanted the business all right. He had a real disappointing look when the entrepreneur asked if Peter would split with Deborah. He tried to make them believe that they will struggle unless he came on board hence the reason he went in at 40%

[@Asif-kh-n9r]

He should've also mentioned his "contact" in M&S

[@tarnveerbassi5786]

Nick: I’m out Sarah: that was quick Jenny: not as quick as me. I’m out!

[@samael5200]

She was out before the pitch began

[@albertodemo658]

Nick: I'm out Sarah: that was quick Nick: that's what my wife also says

[@lee6023]

stop picking on jenny

[@nath272]

Nick is the most humble dragon that has ever been in the den. Love him.

[@fluffyollie]

He seems to be honest and upfront. Good man there.

[@xEvilNeverDiesx]

He does seem a nice guy

[@kirstyboyle2994]

I totally agree 👍

[@liloa3222]

Definitely. James too. James is so respectful to the other dragons and the entrepreneurs

[@nath272]

@liloa3222 Agreed. James, the gentleman!

[@michaellau2544]

Loved Debra’s response: “I stopped at the however.”

[@glowblank17]

@Michael Lau, *May you please explain 😫 🤔 🧐?*

[@juliet7703]

@@glowblank17 yh u gotta see is said at the end...

[@wholenessinGod]

actually you're right

[@davidmcloughlin6547]

Touker, as usual, overvaluing his worth and pricing himself out of a deal.

[@roberthutchins4297]

He's the dragon I'd pick for my business.

[@chique2008]

@@roberthutchins4297 last I would pick

[@roberthutchins4297]

@@chique2008 They all seem pretty good to me. Touker, I think, would stick around and make a real effort to get you going. I like him - but then, I like all the regulars. Just a matter of luck.

[@annettesjoy]

@@roberthutchins4297 , me too.

[@annettesjoy]

Overvaluing?? He is a leader in that area.

[@Jamie_Winsh]

Even though Toucker pointed out many harsh negatives he never actually declared himself out so he was clearly always interested. These two are very passionate and have done very well very quickly

[@chique2008]

they are all sly fu***rs at the end of the day

[@sire5582]

Love how the Dragon's pretended to buy Touker's bs lol. Especially Peter haha. Touker though, 40%??? Comedy gold.

[@tc5290]

Toukers been watching KZbin and seeing the comments “Peter putting businesses down to make himself the hero”, Trying peters tactic, but failing lol

[@TaxingIsThieving]

@@tc5290 LMAO

[@apocalypsed8]

Or were you believing Peter acting like be believed Touker to be able to demand a better offer? :P

[@Do_not_assume]

The arrogance of Touker trying to dismiss the business so that the other dragons won't be interested so that he can come in for the jagular. He has lost all credibility. How can anyone work with him?

[@annettesjoy]

He has not lost his credibility.

[@sexpeare8947]

lol? u don't know what u're talking about buddy

[@TaxingIsThieving]

@@sexpeare8947 And you do, anime freak?

[@aa4488]

Peter does that every time though

[@kinglionbearali2447]

True

[@easycoding8255]

They made the right decision. Touker was being too greedy and he would've been a nightmare to work with. Peter and Deborah let them keep way more equity and they'll be more than capable of sorting out their problems.

[@joelrama3880]

exactly!

[@kingzoe5534]

I know which season an episode is based on how Peter looks.

[@Irishjay_94]

😂😂💀

[@Terry_Frost]

counting Deborah's wrinkles is also a good indication

[@X.00896]

@@Terry_Frost "wrinkles" is a funny way to spell 'neck folds'

[@maximoo9861]

@@Terry_Frost bit sexist innit, what about counting the men's wrinkkes

[@Nobody-dm2ol]

@@maximoo9861 Oh shut up.

[@4mySweetheart369]

Touka was being greedy and conniving. He tried to make them feel their success was meaningless and get them to a vulnerable state so they'd be willing to make a horrible deal. It's one thing to be shrewd in your business deals, it's another thing to lie to someone just to get what you want out of them.

[@Landrew0]

I also thought Touker was playing games by trying to diminish this enterprise. When two other Dragons saw through his ploy and made an offer, Touker stepped up with an offer of his own.

[@maverickstclare3756]

I too watched the episode

[@UTubeTulip]

Nick was probably thinking, I could have driven home by now by the time they reached a deal.

[@engineclinic]

Touka would have been the worst choice. Never go in business with someone who says you did everything wrong when the show you apparently did something right.

[@alienmonkey6304]

Peters reaction when touka makes an offer lol

[@yaffajaff]

If Touker hadn't been on an ego trip he'd have had it if he'd matched Peter's offer, or maybe even at 30% with a buy-back deal

[@michaelsmith953]

when you have lots of money/success sometimes you forget how much of your own success was luck and not skill.

[@annettesjoy]

They could of negotiated

[@alexcooper849]

"Sorry I stopped at however" Gotta love how Deborah finished of touker you can visibly see his ego shatter 😂

[@FK-mx8hy]

When touka cringed at “net-a-porter” 😂 the shaaaaade

[@dan003]

A great deal for the ladies. Access to two extremely valuable contact books, millions of views worth of advertising on KZbin and BBC, and the opportunity to substantially increase their sales for for just 20% long term. Definitely a gamble worth taking. Given the interest though maybe they could have pushed back to taking back 7.5% off each Dragon after they are repaid, but in any case they'll end up a lot richer for this deal.

[@3DHDcat]

This happened long time ago

[@TaxingIsThieving]

And the Dragons will end up even richer.

[@escfxp]

Hilary should have been on the show and made an offer. They could start a new shoulder pad brand.

[@Landrew0]

Hilary was a bit of a looker in her earlier years.

[@lose8447]

@@Landrew0 also Chicago bulls best quarterback

[@vamvam7690]

@@lose8447 that made me laugh more than it should’ve 😅

[@JCRoberts97]

Tourker is too greedy and always fails when he wants near half of the business

[@Henry-cf4oo]

He doesn't get out of bed for 2% 🤣🤣🤣

[@halfvolley11]

its a risky business, not worth investing with ow equity

[@JonasHamill]

Touker Big Bollocks was reading from Peter's usual playbook here. Satisfying when it backfires

[@bluceree7312]

One of the brands failed, so Touker was actually right about that.

[@johnmc3862]

@@bluceree7312 Without his investment. Who knows what difference he would have made.

[@kylenetherwood8734]

Crazy that Deborah got a better deal than she asked for. Can't think of another time that that has happened.

[@elliottgreco6474]

12:52 quite rare for Peter to get shocked by Touker like that

[@davidevans3175]

They should have said to Touka, "a lot of people stand here and ask for money with little sales and a lot of hope. We're here with a half-million pounds of proof which you call luck. If we're that lucky, you should make us an irresistible offer immediately before the other Dragons start talking."

[@Frosty-Lemon]

@dragons deñ 0.0

[@AlexanderJordan-sv7nm]

If you could come up with that on the spot then I applaud your wit and articulation

[@annelyceyawingu6678]

Can we be business partners please?😄

[@jamesanthony4946]

Touka's response, "Luck tends to run out..."

[@MonkeyBizness420]

You can make 1,000,000.00 but if profits are less than 2% then are you really winning

[@MADMAX7330]

Sneaky lil Touker.. Bad mouths them all the while, just so he can gouge them and shamelessly ask for nearly half the business 🙄

[@ProfessorOfLogic81]

Peter knew exactly what Touker was doing. Speaking down about their business, making it sound like a fluke not worth anything, then he tries to act like he will save them. So dishonest.

[@RhythmAndRibs]

Scummy move he always does

[@Dieterbe]

These girls need to work on their poker faces. The way they lit up each time they got an offer LOL 😂

[@icystrangers5482]

Yeah, but that was the best way to let Touker Suleyman know that he had competition. Not that that had much effect!

[@TomNook.]

"there's no brand or retailer focusing on affordable and fashionable workwear" Yes because every business wants their products to be unfashionable

[@remchaill9898]

Brands focusing on workwear have a strong tendency to be stylistically overly conservative and, well, boring. Fashion-forward brands don't want to be seen focusing on workwear, as its seen as a mundane sector. Fashion-forward workwear is actually a very under-serviced niche. Probably why Hope & Ivy has been hugely successful.

[@ajjo6987]

That’s not true . There are plenty of jobs were you don’t need to look like steward and it is really difficult to buy some good looking clothes without spending hundreds 🤷‍♀️I wasn’t even able to find nice looking white blouse it would look good on me without paying 60£ up which I think it is ridiculous

[@TomNook.]

My point is that opinion should not be presented as a statement. It's extremely misleading.

[@Rocketman10057]

@@TomNook. in your opinion

[@another_day4783]

@@ajjo6987 menswaer is even worse its literally just shirts and trousers

[@joegemreyes7640]

Touka has a fashion brand and he knows a competition when he sees one

[@Henry-cf4oo]

Agreed, he knew what he was doing.

[@nershano]

Alter is done, no longer stocked on ASOS and no social/website updates in 4 years. Touker was right.

[@dcwatashi]

Yes I was wondering about that. Because these shows happened quite some time ago

[@freezasama5802]

Well Touker also stated that Uber would use bikes instead of taxis and Voila now we have Uber eats

[@Ccccc-mi3tr]

Alter seems to have closed but their other brand hope and ivy are on ASOS, they got into Zalando and are in loads of other retailers their social is also active with 93k followers

[@roberthutchins4297]

But they´ve got into Harry Ramsden's!

[@retrovideos1445]

Used to work for the company that’s your only customer - that’s always a bit fishy

[@thewalkyries7538]

Nick: you come out of the lift too fast, and for that reason, I'm out

[@chairslots3792]

Every single time I watch Dragons’ Den I wonder how Touker has managed to get where he is.

[@michaelsmith953]

when you have lots of money/success sometimes you forget how much of your own success was luck and not skill. the best business people and multimillionaires got there from luck, sure they worked hard but 50x as many people also worked just as hard but werent as lucky

[@maverickstclare3756]

@@michaelsmith953 That phenomena even has a name: survivorship bias

[@the_endling]

Sweatshops

[@jeffstrand601]

He hasn’t, his success is vastly overstated

[@masterblast4069]

7:59 play 0.5x speed. Like being at the pub with Touker.

[@MrHampat]

That was great

[@LBPreviews]

Brilliant LOL

[@adamoutofoffice]

Good one

[@MovingToAustralia-MikeBentley]

Very clever! How on earth you thought of doing that!

[@ADecadeDrifting]

Hahahah

[@CatopiaCatSanctuary]

Tukor was DEFINITELY up to something!🧐

[@coachonyoutube99]

Just love Deborah M, she is the Dragon

[@xcalliexbabex]

This brand is doing so well! I see them everywhere I bet Touka is kicking himself!!

[@skeemostrife]

Touca definitely insulted his way out of a deal. If I was in there shoes, after his scathing assessment of their success...I wouldnt have wanted him to invest, and certainly not for 40%

[@PetersonZF]

I'm glad they went with Deborah and Peter. I'd never want to do a deal with Touker, especially after he insulted my business as a bargaining tactic. If I were an entrepreneur, I think I'd happily work with almost any other Dragon.

[@HIOP0]

Yes...IF you were...

[@doctorsocrates4413]

He is a greedy man...

[@moogleking]

Touka was scheming for his high equity all along lol

[@CKD3332]

I would only go to the Dragon for Deborah and Peter, they are clearly the best. Touka slags them off cause he was jealous of their success and then makes a ridiculous offer.

[@twosilk]

Jealous of their success?? Don't be silly

[@TaxingIsThieving]

@@twosilk Intimidated by their potential success.

[@chriswilson5199]

Touker should of kept his mouth shut after giving it loads. Making an offer like that. It's embarrassing.

[@HIOP0]

Your reputation as a world class entrepreneur precedes you, never heard of you, you must be as publicity shy as you are wealthy...

[@brettsinclair6802]

Peter saw right through tuka’s tactic

[@foreignwarren7361]

Nick's wife won't want him working with models...smart man.

[@NancyBoi1984]

Is he that smart ? Hes clearly married a very insecure woman

[@HIOP0]

WHAT?. A rather immature and unnecessary intervention.

[@TaxingIsThieving]

@Stabswache Serious?

[@johnmc3862]

Outrageous of Touker to say it was luck.

[@MonkeyBizness420]

What he meant was "a lot of knee pads were used"

[@tooshlong]

Toukers facial expression at 14:11 (the very long blink is a big tell) tells you that he was gutted at his offer being overlooked. He played that badly.

[@DeepakOjha]

Sarah is so graceful. God damnit, so much to learn from these people!

[@dakotaretherford4384]

My first thought when I heard her was Ulta is already a name

[@moohHa22]

Omg did you see the look on their model’s faces when Sarah and Deborah were looking at the clothes? 😂😂 smile girlies, you’re on camera!

[@joannegutteridge3843]

I saw that as well. they looked unimpressed and snobbish. 😒😁

[@DemocracyManifest]

They're models, they aren't known for having any personality or endearing character.

[@jay-dubb.dubb.68]

They are just the "Warm Bodies" used to display the garments!

[@ShyaninkitchenASMR]

half a million, most of it came from 1 client. It is pure luck. If you are in trading, you will agreed with Touker.

[@okanakdogan4203]

it's more probably a friendly relationship with an ex-colleague who was the buyer at Asos at the time

[@gokuafrica]

Traders are the worst vermin. They have got no accountability. Even an average person who buys basic index funds outperforms 99% of traders. Point being, investing and building a company is very different from trading and superior as well. There's a concept of early adopters in the startup market. These are the first entities that risk doing business with a young company. The company ofcourse gives them VIP treatment for being early. What you call lack of diversification, I call a leverage. That company is a big conglomerate and the fact that they are doing business with this small and young company gives more credibility to these guys. Touka was just haggling here but traders won't understand that. They would rather invest in 40 companies that they know nothing about than one company that they understand because diversification and risk management 😂. Don't compare venture capital and investing to trading. Count how many billionaires have gotten there by trading and how many have gotten there by creating a product and you'll see what I'm talking about. You guys bring nothing to the table.

[@StandardGoose]

I'm fascinated to know what kind of work someone would do wearing the outfit that third model was wearing for it to be considered "work wear".

[@leannedee6382]

Madam at a brothel?

[@jay-dubb.dubb.68]

Lady of the evening walking the street on N. Main at 1am

[@calibcrockett]

I think their quick success at Asos or however you spell it is a big red flag 🚩. One of them said she worked at the company for 3 years and now she runs her own company and their only purchaser happens to be the company she worked for. I feel she has a relationship with the buyer at Asos and is the reason they've been able to sell an unknown brand in such high quantity so quickly, the real work would be selling to other companies that she doesn't know anyone at. Just very sketchy imo and surprised none of the dragons brought it up.

[@alecjuho289]

they're actually selling at Zalando and several other retailers atm

[@TheodoreBrosevelt]

That's called having connections

[@graceycatlady]

This is funny. If you have connections, nothing wrong to use it to help your business. Retail industry is a very competitive business, brand awareness and product visibility are the key to generating more sales. If you know an avenue on how to improve those 2, wouldn’t you take it?

[@miraclemiler71]

The last model to walk in and do a twirl is stunning.

[@user-ve5qn7zr4p]

The way touker looks around as if he clever and outsmarted everyone

[@theactualcanadian8300]

Nick Jenkins- I can’t offer you much help because it’s not my sector, so I’m out *dramatic music sting* Narrator- A FATAL BLOW TO THE ENTREPRENEURS

[@freezasama5802]

For a dragon that has nothing to do with the market the entrepreneurs are seeking it's a very fatal blow

[@intrepidtomato]

yeah so dramatic. It is a very good and honest strategy to say you are not interested in a business even though it is promising because it is not in your line, loved that

[@cdan3135]

Touker was just extremely jealous of their success and wanted to act like he was the daddy and rip them off but fairnplay to Peter for stepping in 👏

[@Sozzled-Hag]

For a fashion company, accepting an offer from Debra is ridiculous. Look at the tat she is wearing

[@andrewgurney6019]

Owch

[@thecasualobserver6598]

MEEEOWWWW...🐈

[@drvs2262]

Now, now. Put your claws away

[@AJ-bv7gr]

yeah, they should go with Peter & Sarah.

[@JazzyMarineVet]

Her bank account and contacts supersede the importance of what she's wearing

[@fairlyvague82]

02:52 🧐 Ooooooh, someone is well jell of Sarah!

[@Nick-gk6hj]

I'd say she was checking her out

[@louvienne531]

Can I just say I love the red shoes she had on 💖

[@zombie5017]

im surprised they were able to negotiate the dragons down 2% each, others have failed to do so.

[@susanwaugh3885]

Deborah admits she doesn’t have the expertise in clothing retail yet they go for her and Peter instead of Touker! This show gets on my nerves at times. It’s all about Peter and Deborah or if not touker if everyone else goes out. Why do they always keep choosing Deborah when other dragons are sometimes a better fit for the entrepreneurs businesses. The show might as well just have those two on, and get rid of the rest. It’s so annoying

[@alfydarkdeadly]

I honestly think that ppl don’t have faith in touker. Deborah and Peter really sound like they know that they are talking and come Across as they can get things done. With touka I don’t think he makes the candidates feel that. Oddly enough he’s the richest dragon. But I think pll think he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

[@jimmytyan9791]

@@alfydarkdeadly touker? Richest dragon? 🤣 pretty sure thats Peter Jones

[@x_dolly666_x]

3:53 those cuff links

[@TaxingIsThieving]

Song?

[@cuttlefisch]

Hope it continues to work out for them.

[@arpitanand5150]

Touker sitting was thinking I will slightly play willl give hard time and then pretend to rescue. then ask any amount. sprry bro wont work

[@olaoluwaadeyemo6939]

Touker: 78k is not enough... Yet he offers the same amount for about times 3 the equity. ...... Peter Jones is still my favorite. ❤️

[@Bleach420]

Good day fellow DD addicts!

[@RhyfelwrMorgannwg]

Touker is greedy but his words were wise. Last nights new episode, he offers £50k for 90%... so he’s basically giving himself £45k, but to be fair just like this he could do a lot for them with a big share. It just invites other dragons to come and undercut him if they like the business

[@WinstonBuford]

peter didnt even get up to look

[@originalunoriginal4055]

Wasn't expecting him to try on the outfits, were you?

[@Henry-cf4oo]

@@originalunoriginal4055 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀

[@Josh_TO]

Tukar went overboard with the lowballing. Glad they called his bluff.

[@readmycomment3157]

Touker was patronising and rude, no wonder they didnt go for him, Peter was far smarter here, supportive, complementary, impressive track record.

[@thedappercook]

Love these older episodes

[@theovolz3073]

Wow, this must be the least click-baity title I’ve seen for a Dragon’s Den episode.

[@JimmyTRUELOVE]

that girl with dark hair - the model, is so fit.

[@bash547]

Jenny’s not in this episode

[@pauljulian2963]

Jenny is the most beautiful. The way she says she's out. pure sexiness.

[@ashleyj0]

For a minute i was like Ulta?! That's a cheapy fashion store in the us

[@henryfullman9171]

All I can say is bloody well done girls !

[@michaelsmith953]

why not just put the brands under 1 larger brand XD on the same website?

[@AlwaysBolttheBird]

Peter and Deborah deals are always the best

[@nicholassimon1419]

I can’t even express how annoyed I am that Peter didn’t make some kind of “This isn’t the first time women have been disappointed by Nick finishing too quickly” joke.

[@commanderkeen3787]

*LUNCH TIME. WOOO WOOO*

[@BenjaminGoose]

I had just started eating lunch when I noticed this was uploaded. What luck.

[@mella206]

don't get that touka going on being negative bring them down but then he made an offer anyway

[@verdipoggi7434]

Really good entrepreneurs. Very happy for them :)

[@albertodemo658]

Touker: "I know what's involved. I know what you need.. Office space in London"

[@maoaomar4074]

I checked their website. Beautiful clothing really

[@Stratateam]

Confidence of new entrepreneur can't be influenced by just reminding them about market situations

[@iranicus3393]

Good for them, hope things are going well ^^

[@k17th60]

0:07 - if you know you know

[@adhc8560]

I just checked out their website. I really like their clothes.

[@travelswithaz]

Touker wanted to show off and tell them they will never be good enough to his level. then he lost even a greater opportunity of investing due to his egoistic show off nature

[@CivilPulse]

I’ve looked them up and it’s mostly floral dresses with weirds cuts, doesn’t look at all like something you could wear in an office (edit: unless you’re the boss) 😅

[@gamewithadam7235]

Lmao Toukar's bluff got called.

[@nkrav7160]

Touker tried to get Peter with his own tactic. Wrong move sir. 😂

[@RTG1031]

Touker tried to use Peter’s tactic and it failed

[@foxhound931]

Enterpreneurs : We are pitching for our textile industry Touker: Am gonna take this whole startup down

[@DanyaalButt]

Peters reaction to the 40% offer 😂

[@terranceparsons5185]

We came here for Touker, Touker makes an offer, they go to the wall and you hear "shall we see if Peter and Deborah will split?". What is the point of having the other 3 dragons?

[@Nick-gk6hj]

He made a shyte offer

[@twigityful]

Whats up with Touka !😂😂 trying to damage their pitch to divert the dragons away