“Two Brands, Two Websites, You’re in for a Disaster” | Dragons’ Den

With 13 years combined experience in the fashion industry, design duo Beth Chilton and Sarah Sleightholm gave a stylish pitch with a fashion show walkway for their two early-stage fashion brands - Hope & Ivy. The duo needs £78,000 in return for a 15% equity stake but will any of the Dragons invest once hearing what Touker has to say?
An international sensation, Dragon's Den features entrepreneurs pitching for investment in the Den from our Dragons, five venture capitalists willing to invest their own money in exchange for equity.
#DragonsDen #OnlineRetailer #Asos

[@guessyou1499]

They continued on “HOPE & IVY” -They are still doing well in ASOS -Peter and Deborah are still in.

[@vegn_brit5176]

I saw they also sell the brand on Zalando!!

[@Meg_F]

They have expanded abroad as well and doing really well.

[@reecemichael2700]

I really think their designs are really attractive!! I'm happy to hear they're doing well.

[@user-hd8bg8mh8e]

Thanks

[@gskuzx8591]

Thank you for the comment!

[@khotsopitso3500]

Touka played his cards very well there by throwing everyone off. He just forgot to offer office space. That could have tipped the scales into side.

[@michaelwallden7261]

that is because he has no free space to offer at the momen

[@LadyHeathen82]

*Touker

[@englishbob5106]

Touka was being greedy ,but at the same time he didn't want the business

[@susanwaugh3885]

@English Bob He wanted the business all right. He had a real disappointing look when the entrepreneur asked if Peter would split with Deborah. He tried to make them believe that they will struggle unless he came on board hence the reason he went in at 40%

[@khandadonb111]

He should've also mentioned his "contact" in M&S

[@tarnveerbassi5786]

Nick: I’m out Sarah: that was quick Jenny: not as quick as me. I’m out!

[@samael5200]

She was out before the pitch began

[@albertodemo658]

Nick: I'm out Sarah: that was quick Nick: that's what my wife also says

[@lee6023]

stop picking on jenny

[@michaellau2544]

Loved Debra’s response: “I stopped at the however.”

[@glowblank17]

@Michael Lau, *May you please explain 😫 🤔 🧐?*

[@juliet7703]

@@glowblank17 yh u gotta see is said at the end...

[@sky_afreesoul]

actually you're right

[@nath272]

Nick is the most humble dragon that has ever been in the den. Love him.

[@fluffyollie]

He seems to be honest and upfront. Good man there.

[@xEvilNeverDiesx]

He does seem a nice guy

[@kirstyboyle2994]

I totally agree 👍

[@liloa3222]

Definitely. James too. James is so respectful to the other dragons and the entrepreneurs

[@nath272]

@liloa3222 Agreed. James, the gentleman!

[@HHHKingofKings58]

78k is not going to go very far so I'll give you 78k for 40% of your company

[@thomasdalton1508]

That makes sense. If he expects to be diluted by subsequent investment rounds, he would want to start out with a higher percentage so he still has a decent share after dilution.

[@HHHKingofKings58]

@@thomasdalton1508 Complete non sequitur

[@thomasdalton1508]

@@HHHKingofKings58 It is not a non sequitur. I'm explaining why him thinking 78k wouldn't go very far leads to him requiring a larger percentage.

[@HHHKingofKings58]

@@thomasdalton1508 No, that statement from him and my comment both have nothing to do with the concern of being diluted.

[@thomasdalton1508]

@@HHHKingofKings58 Absolutely they do. If it won't go very far that means he'll soon need more. That will lead to dilution.

[@ya00007]

I just think Touker was being EXTREMELY GREEDY. He tried to downplay their success but he got shafted. He knew they wanted him but I'm glad they made the right choice.

[@jasminegoertler9549]

He knew he was asking for way more than he should have because he thought they would fall for it but luckily they knew that too

[@user-sf9gs2pg1b]

I think he wanted the other sharks to go out by convincing them not to go in so that they practically had to take his deal or nothing.

[@tiernodiallo1]

@@user-sf9gs2pg1b *dragons

[@itszenbaby]

Those tactics are so slimy. I remember in an older episode Touker did the same thing, downplaying the size of the opportunity and making the entrepreneur feel like their product needed a lot of work, then he asked for a higher percentage, thinking this method would put other dragons off investing and the entrepreneurs would see him as more valuable. Instead the smart entrepreneurs saw straight through it and didn’t choose Toukers deal. They said it was because he showed a lack of passion for the product, which is how this reverse-psychology technique can backfire.

[@pauldenby2886]

@@itszenbaby Precisely... Touker played himself. And OOF that 40% though... what a vampire. Especially considering such a high turnover with good margins.

[@sire5582]

Love how the Dragon's pretended to buy Touker's bs lol. Especially Peter haha. Touker though, 40%??? Comedy gold.

[@tc5290]

Toukers been watching KZbin and seeing the comments “Peter putting businesses down to make himself the hero”, Trying peters tactic, but failing lol

[@Black.Sabbath]

@@tc5290 LMAO

[@apocalypsed8]

Or were you believing Peter acting like be believed Touker to be able to demand a better offer? :P

[@Jamie_Winsh]

Even though Toucker pointed out many harsh negatives he never actually declared himself out so he was clearly always interested. These two are very passionate and have done very well very quickly

[@chique2008]

they are all sly fu***rs at the end of the day

[@kingzoe5534]

I know which season an episode is based on how Peter looks.

[@Irishjay_94]

😂😂💀

[@Terry_Frost]

counting Deborah's wrinkles is also a good indication

[@X.00896]

@@Terry_Frost "wrinkles" is a funny way to spell 'neck folds'

[@maximoo9861]

@@Terry_Frost bit sexist innit, what about counting the men's wrinkkes

[@Nobody-dm2ol]

@@maximoo9861 Oh shut up.

[@davidmcloughlin6547]

Touker, as usual, overvaluing his worth and pricing himself out of a deal.

[@roberthutchins4297]

He's the dragon I'd pick for my business.

[@chique2008]

@@roberthutchins4297 last I would pick

[@roberthutchins4297]

@@chique2008 They all seem pretty good to me. Touker, I think, would stick around and make a real effort to get you going. I like him - but then, I like all the regulars. Just a matter of luck.

[@annettesjoy]

@@roberthutchins4297 , me too.

[@annettesjoy]

Overvaluing?? He is a leader in that area.

[@Landrew0]

I also thought Touker was playing games by trying to diminish this enterprise. When two other Dragons saw through his ploy and made an offer, Touker stepped up with an offer of his own.

[@maverickstclare3756]

I too watched the episode

[@ya00007]

The arrogance of Touker trying to dismiss the business so that the other dragons won't be interested so that he can come in for the jagular. He has lost all credibility. How can anyone work with him?

[@annettesjoy]

He has not lost his credibility.

[@sexpeare8947]

lol? u don't know what u're talking about buddy

[@Black.Sabbath]

@@sexpeare8947 And you do, anime freak?

[@aa4488]

Peter does that every time though

[@easycoding8255]

They made the right decision. Touker was being too greedy and he would've been a nightmare to work with. Peter and Deborah let them keep way more equity and they'll be more than capable of sorting out their problems.

[@joelrama3880]

exactly!

[@4mySweetheart369]

Touka was being greedy and conniving. He tried to make them feel their success was meaningless and get them to a vulnerable state so they'd be willing to make a horrible deal. It's one thing to be shrewd in your business deals, it's another thing to lie to someone just to get what you want out of them.

[@UTubeTulip]

Nick was probably thinking, I could have driven home by now by the time they reached a deal.

[@alienmonkey6304]

Peters reaction when touka makes an offer lol

[@yaffajaff]

If Touker hadn't been on an ego trip he'd have had it if he'd matched Peter's offer, or maybe even at 30% with a buy-back deal

[@michaelsmith953]

when you have lots of money/success sometimes you forget how much of your own success was luck and not skill.

[@annettesjoy]

They could of negotiated

[@engineclinic]

Touka would have been the worst choice. Never go in business with someone who says you did everything wrong when the show you apparently did something right.

[@alexcooper849]

"Sorry I stopped at however" Gotta love how Deborah finished of touker you can visibly see his ego shatter 😂

[@JonasHamill]

Touker Big Bollocks was reading from Peter's usual playbook here. Satisfying when it backfires

[@bluceree7312]

One of the brands failed, so Touker was actually right about that.

[@johnmc3862]

@@bluceree7312 Without his investment. Who knows what difference he would have made.

[@escfxp]

Hilary should have been on the show and made an offer. They could start a new shoulder pad brand.

[@Landrew0]

Hilary was a bit of a looker in her earlier years.

[@lose8447]

@@Landrew0 also Chicago bulls best quarterback

[@hannahframpton9235]

@@lose8447 that made me laugh more than it should’ve 😅

[@dan003]

A great deal for the ladies. Access to two extremely valuable contact books, millions of views worth of advertising on KZbin and BBC, and the opportunity to substantially increase their sales for for just 20% long term. Definitely a gamble worth taking. Given the interest though maybe they could have pushed back to taking back 7.5% off each Dragon after they are repaid, but in any case they'll end up a lot richer for this deal.

[@3DHDcat]

This happened long time ago

[@Black.Sabbath]

And the Dragons will end up even richer.

[@FK-mx8hy]

When touka cringed at “net-a-porter” 😂 the shaaaaade

[@davidevans3175]

They should have said to Touka, "a lot of people stand here and ask for money with little sales and a lot of hope. We're here with a half-million pounds of proof which you call luck. If we're that lucky, you should make us an irresistible offer immediately before the other Dragons start talking."

[@Frosty-Lemon]

@dragons deñ 0.0

[@AlexanderJordan-sv7nm]

If you could come up with that on the spot then I applaud your wit and articulation

[@annelyceyawingu6678]

Can we be business partners please?😄

[@jamesanthony4946]

Touka's response, "Luck tends to run out..."

[@MonkeyBizness420]

You can make 1,000,000.00 but if profits are less than 2% then are you really winning

[@JCRoberts97]

Tourker is too greedy and always fails when he wants near half of the business

[@Henry-cf4oo]

He doesn't get out of bed for 2% 🤣🤣🤣

[@halfvolley11]

its a risky business, not worth investing with ow equity

[@magusxxx]

Does anyone else wish there was a show where they would pick a Dragon this way? Have them stand there and justify why they should be on the show and get a paycheck.

[@Likexner]

Haha, that sounds good. edit: Jenny: Im out.

[@davidporter4162]

The whole point is that the Dragons have built businesses worth hundreds of millions of pounds and invest tens/hundreds of thousands week after week. No interview needed!

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

Their money is the justification. Not totally accurate, but accurate enough in business.

[@Albimar17]

well how many rich people like that are there in the uk? It's not your regular chavish mum Ann-Marie on child benefit and unemployment benefits who's normally shopping at the likes of primark and topshop with her daughters Ashlee, Kayleeegh and son Kyle (each child with a different father, often unknown), is it

[@HHHKingofKings58]

@@Albimar17 You might want to check which demographic is responsible for the most children out of wedlock

[@TomNook.]

"there's no brand or retailer focusing on affordable and fashionable workwear" Yes because every business wants their products to be unfashionable

[@remchaill9898]

Brands focusing on workwear have a strong tendency to be stylistically overly conservative and, well, boring. Fashion-forward brands don't want to be seen focusing on workwear, as its seen as a mundane sector. Fashion-forward workwear is actually a very under-serviced niche. Probably why Hope & Ivy has been hugely successful.

[@ajjo6987]

That’s not true . There are plenty of jobs were you don’t need to look like steward and it is really difficult to buy some good looking clothes without spending hundreds 🤷‍♀️I wasn’t even able to find nice looking white blouse it would look good on me without paying 60£ up which I think it is ridiculous

[@TomNook.]

My point is that opinion should not be presented as a statement. It's extremely misleading.

[@Rocketman10057]

@@TomNook. in your opinion

[@another_day4783]

@@ajjo6987 menswaer is even worse its literally just shirts and trousers

[@kylenetherwood8734]

Crazy that Deborah got a better deal than she asked for. Can't think of another time that that has happened.

[@MADMAX7330]

Sneaky lil Touker.. Bad mouths them all the while, just so he can gouge them and shamelessly ask for nearly half the business 🙄

[@3umphbywill313]

Tukor was DEFINITELY up to something!🧐

[@nershano]

Alter is done, no longer stocked on ASOS and no social/website updates in 4 years. Touker was right.

[@dcwatashi]

Yes I was wondering about that. Because these shows happened quite some time ago

[@freezasama5802]

Well Touker also stated that Uber would use bikes instead of taxis and Voila now we have Uber eats

[@Ccccc-mi3tr]

Alter seems to have closed but their other brand hope and ivy are on ASOS, they got into Zalando and are in loads of other retailers their social is also active with 93k followers

[@roberthutchins4297]

But they´ve got into Harry Ramsden's!

[@retrovideos1445]

Used to work for the company that’s your only customer - that’s always a bit fishy

[@PetersonZF]

I'm glad they went with Deborah and Peter. I'd never want to do a deal with Touker, especially after he insulted my business as a bargaining tactic. If I were an entrepreneur, I think I'd happily work with almost any other Dragon.

[@HIOP0]

Yes...IF you were...

[@doctorsocrates4413]

He is a greedy man...

[@xcalliexbabex]

This brand is doing so well! I see them everywhere I bet Touka is kicking himself!!

[@joegemreyes7640]

Touka has a fashion brand and he knows a competition when he sees one

[@Henry-cf4oo]

Agreed, he knew what he was doing.

[@masterblast4069]

7:59 play 0.5x speed. Like being at the pub with Touker.

[@MrHampat]

That was great

[@LBPreviews]

Brilliant LOL

[@adamoutofoffice]

Good one

[@MovingToAustralia-MikeBentley]

Very clever! How on earth you thought of doing that!

[@ADecadeDrifting]

Hahahah

[@chairslots3792]

Every single time I watch Dragons’ Den I wonder how Touker has managed to get where he is.

[@michaelsmith953]

when you have lots of money/success sometimes you forget how much of your own success was luck and not skill. the best business people and multimillionaires got there from luck, sure they worked hard but 50x as many people also worked just as hard but werent as lucky

[@maverickstclare3756]

@@michaelsmith953 That phenomena even has a name: survivorship bias

[@the_endling]

Sweatshops

[@jeffstrand601]

He hasn’t, his success is vastly overstated

[@moohHa22]

Omg did you see the look on their model’s faces when Sarah and Deborah were looking at the clothes? 😂😂 smile girlies, you’re on camera!

[@joannegutteridge3843]

I saw that as well. they looked unimpressed and snobbish. 😒😁

[@DemocracyManifest]

They're models, they aren't known for having any personality or endearing character.

[@jay-dubdubb2292]

They are just the "Warm Bodies" used to display the garments!

[@thewalkyries7538]

Nick: you come out of the lift too fast, and for that reason, I'm out

[@calibcrockett]

I think their quick success at Asos or however you spell it is a big red flag 🚩. One of them said she worked at the company for 3 years and now she runs her own company and their only purchaser happens to be the company she worked for. I feel she has a relationship with the buyer at Asos and is the reason they've been able to sell an unknown brand in such high quantity so quickly, the real work would be selling to other companies that she doesn't know anyone at. Just very sketchy imo and surprised none of the dragons brought it up.

[@alecjuho289]

they're actually selling at Zalando and several other retailers atm

[@TheodoreBrosevelt]

That's called having connections

[@graceolinares7364]

This is funny. If you have connections, nothing wrong to use it to help your business. Retail industry is a very competitive business, brand awareness and product visibility are the key to generating more sales. If you know an avenue on how to improve those 2, wouldn’t you take it?

[@Dieterbe]

These girls need to work on their poker faces. The way they lit up each time they got an offer LOL 😂

[@icystrangers5482]

Yeah, but that was the best way to let Touker Suleyman know that he had competition. Not that that had much effect!

[@DeepakOjha]

Sarah is so graceful. God damnit, so much to learn from these people!

[@moogleking]

Touka was scheming for his high equity all along lol

[@skeemostrife]

Touca definitely insulted his way out of a deal. If I was in there shoes, after his scathing assessment of their success...I wouldnt have wanted him to invest, and certainly not for 40%

[@foreignwarren7361]

Nick's wife won't want him working with models...smart man.

[@NancyBoi1984]

Is he that smart ? Hes clearly married a very insecure woman

[@HIOP0]

WHAT?. A rather immature and unnecessary intervention.

[@Black.Sabbath]

@Stabswache Serious?

[@coachonyoutube99]

Just love Deborah M, she is the Dragon

[@commanderkeen3787]

*LUNCH TIME. WOOO WOOO*

[@BenjaminGoose]

I had just started eating lunch when I noticed this was uploaded. What luck.

[@brettsinclair6802]

Peter saw right through tuka’s tactic

[@chriswilson5199]

Touker should of kept his mouth shut after giving it loads. Making an offer like that. It's embarrassing.

[@HIOP0]

Your reputation as a world class entrepreneur precedes you, never heard of you, you must be as publicity shy as you are wealthy...

[@thedappercook]

Love these older episodes

[@cuttlefisch]

Hope it continues to work out for them.

[@CKD3332]

I would only go to the Dragon for Deborah and Peter, they are clearly the best. Touka slags them off cause he was jealous of their success and then makes a ridiculous offer.

[@twosilk]

Jealous of their success?? Don't be silly

[@Black.Sabbath]

@@twosilk Intimidated by their potential success.

[@iranicus3393]

Good for them, hope things are going well ^^

[@YouthPotential]

Really pleased for these two

[@miraclemiler71]

The last model to walk in and do a twirl is stunning.

[@elliottgreco6474]

12:52 quite rare for Peter to get shocked by Touker like that

[@x_dolly666_x]

3:53 those cuff links

[@CaptainShaneOw]

half a million, most of it came from 1 client. It is pure luck. If you are in trading, you will agreed with Touker.

[@okanakdogan4203]

it's more probably a friendly relationship with an ex-colleague who was the buyer at Asos at the time

[@gokuafrica]

Traders are the worst vermin. They have got no accountability. Even an average person who buys basic index funds outperforms 99% of traders. Point being, investing and building a company is very different from trading and superior as well. There's a concept of early adopters in the startup market. These are the first entities that risk doing business with a young company. The company ofcourse gives them VIP treatment for being early. What you call lack of diversification, I call a leverage. That company is a big conglomerate and the fact that they are doing business with this small and young company gives more credibility to these guys. Touka was just haggling here but traders won't understand that. They would rather invest in 40 companies that they know nothing about than one company that they understand because diversification and risk management 😂. Don't compare venture capital and investing to trading. Count how many billionaires have gotten there by trading and how many have gotten there by creating a product and you'll see what I'm talking about. You guys bring nothing to the table.

[@louvienne531]

Can I just say I love the red shoes she had on 💖

[@johnmc3862]

Outrageous of Touker to say it was luck.

[@MonkeyBizness420]

What he meant was "a lot of knee pads were used"

[@Sozzled-Hag]

For a fashion company, accepting an offer from Debra is ridiculous. Look at the tat she is wearing

[@andrewgurney6019]

Owch

[@thecasualobserver6598]

MEEEOWWWW...🐈

[@drvs2262]

Now, now. Put your claws away

[@AJ-bv7gr]

yeah, they should go with Peter & Sarah.

[@JazzyMarineVet]

Her bank account and contacts supersede the importance of what she's wearing

[@olaoluwaadeyemo6939]

Touker: 78k is not enough... Yet he offers the same amount for about times 3 the equity. ...... Peter Jones is still my favorite. ❤️

[@theactualcanadian8300]

Nick Jenkins- I can’t offer you much help because it’s not my sector, so I’m out *dramatic music sting* Narrator- A FATAL BLOW TO THE ENTREPRENEURS

[@freezasama5802]

For a dragon that has nothing to do with the market the entrepreneurs are seeking it's a very fatal blow

[@intrepidtomato]

yeah so dramatic. It is a very good and honest strategy to say you are not interested in a business even though it is promising because it is not in your line, loved that

[@cdan3135]

Touker was just extremely jealous of their success and wanted to act like he was the daddy and rip them off but fairnplay to Peter for stepping in 👏

[@YTGhostCensorshipCanSuckMe]

Does the last model come with the deal ?

[@verdipoggi7434]

Really good entrepreneurs. Very happy for them :)

[@risiateb]

They said work wear. What was the 3rd model wearing?

[@nicholassimon1419]

I can’t even express how annoyed I am that Peter didn’t make some kind of “This isn’t the first time women have been disappointed by Nick finishing too quickly” joke.

[@arpitanand5150]

Touker sitting was thinking I will slightly play willl give hard time and then pretend to rescue. then ask any amount. sprry bro wont work

[@Josh_TO]

Tukar went overboard with the lowballing. Glad they called his bluff.

[@Black.Sabbath]

Song?

[@ashleyj0]

For a minute i was like Ulta?! That's a cheapy fashion store in the us

[@taherajenz]

Touka: you girls are stretching yourself very wide 😛😛😛😛

[@adhc8560]

I just checked out their website. I really like their clothes.

[@StandardGoose]

I'm fascinated to know what kind of work someone would do wearing the outfit that third model was wearing for it to be considered "work wear".

[@leannedee6382]

Madam at a brothel?

[@jay-dubdubb2292]

Lady of the evening walking the street on N. Main at 1am

[@zombie5017]

im surprised they were able to negotiate the dragons down 2% each, others have failed to do so.

[@henryfullman9171]

All I can say is bloody well done girls !

[@dakotaretherford4384]

My first thought when I heard her was Ulta is already a name

[@annettesjoy]

Now I know I am different than most of the people on this thred 😁 but... When I was a teenager, I loved Shaun Cassidy and Rex Smith. Now I am in my 50's and I think Touker is fantastic!! I would of negotiated with him. He has so many good qualities without any arrogance. His wife is one lucky lady.

[@fairlyvague82]

02:52 🧐 Ooooooh, someone is well jell of Sarah!

[@christopherbako]

Yay, happy ending!

[@JimmyTRUELOVE]

that girl with dark hair - the model, is so fit.

[@bash547]

Jenny’s not in this episode

[@pauljulian2963]

Jenny is the most beautiful. The way she says she's out. pure sexiness.

[@nabhanh7334]

Touker's shot at 10:50 is meme worthy

[@claire6568]

He literally looks like this emoji 😏

[@tooshlong]

Toukers facial expression at 14:11 (the very long blink is a big tell) tells you that he was gutted at his offer being overlooked. He played that badly.

[@michaelsmith953]

why not just put the brands under 1 larger brand XD on the same website?

[@user-ve5qn7zr4p]

The way touker looks around as if he clever and outsmarted everyone

[@theovolz3073]

Wow, this must be the least click-baity title I’ve seen for a Dragon’s Den episode.

[@Bleach420]

Good day fellow DD addicts!

[@Imageoneonone]

Confidence of new entrepreneur can't be influenced by just reminding them about market situations

[@smurfmeify]

Track ID?

[@nkrav7160]

Touker tried to get Peter with his own tactic. Wrong move sir. 😂

[@nicetry7409]

the music lmao

[@WinstonBuford]

peter didnt even get up to look

[@originalunoriginal4055]

Wasn't expecting him to try on the outfits, were you?

[@Henry-cf4oo]

@@originalunoriginal4055 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀

[@DanyaalButt]

Peters reaction to the 40% offer 😂

[@maoaomar4074]

I checked their website. Beautiful clothing really

[@Marian_Rusnak]

thank you, Touker, for your honest words. such words are not always appreciated, sadly

[@gamewithadam7235]

Lmao Toukar's bluff got called.

[@albertodemo658]

Touker: "I know what's involved. I know what you need.. Office space in London"

[@RhyfelwrMorgannwg]

Touker is greedy but his words were wise. Last nights new episode, he offers £50k for 90%... so he’s basically giving himself £45k, but to be fair just like this he could do a lot for them with a big share. It just invites other dragons to come and undercut him if they like the business

[@UKProud]

Aldi meal deal folks!

[@Ryanjoned163]

😂😂

[@aleward2628]

Coop meal deal is supreme

[@Posh_Boy]

Meal deals are disgusting. Eat cooked and wholesome food

[@cupidwxings]

@@Posh_Boy not everyone has access to a kitchen you doofus