Two Decades In Amsterdam: What Italians Think About Dutch Culture After 23 Years! | The Movement Hub

[@TheMovementHub]

Daniela (on the left) has a cooking channel. Check it out to learn about making delicious Italian food. www.youtube.com/@CookingwithDaniela

[@Beetshelps]

We'd rather be rid of whiners like you! please move back to italy.. so we have some house available for people who actually want to live here..

[@wepes7291]

And still 23 years living in Holland, I think it’s time to go back to Italy.

[@MarcelloDelBuono]

Hi I'm also Italian and I've been living in the Netherlands for almost 15 years now. After a few years spent complaining about dutch people and the dutch way of living, I realized that I was wasting my time: dutch people were not going to become more Italian to please me or to make my life easier! So I opened up my mind and finally recognized that things that are different from what I am used to, are not necessarily wrong! I started talking to dutch people, asking them questions and getting to know them and their culture. Well, I concluded that, if you scratch just deep enough under the appearances, they are not much different than me and you. Personal Identity has many layers: I am at the same time a Turese, a Pugliese, a Terrone, an Italian. Living abroad gave me the opportunity to add another layer to my identity and start feeling European.

[@JosinaDroppert]

If Dutch people talk English with you, tell them to speak Dutch to you. And how about a language course ? I agree with a lot of behaving they pictured, but if you are so unhappy here, move back please.

[@Bluescherry]

My father was from Turi, Conversano..I'm from the South of Puglia :). However, I totally agree with you! But I also agree with everything the two adorable ladies in the video said.

[@MarcelloDelBuono]

​@@Bluescherry It's a small world 😊

[@1glassMilk]

Thats super cool man. I congratulate you with the wisdom. ;) I experienced almost the same with Germans and Americans. We are different but it is just a different culture. And we can learn from eachother. ;) I try to learn from Germans and Americans. And we Dutch people love the Italian food. ;) Thank you for making it and sharing it with us. ;) And also great classical music. ;)

[@MarcelloDelBuono]

@@1glassMilk I recently read the book "Italianen kunnen niks" by Bert Visscher. He moved to Italy and he filled a book with all his complaints about the aspects of the Italian culture that didn't make sense to him. It seems to be a typical reaction of expats to the hosting culture. So, nothing wrong with the Dutch, the German, the American, etc.. Maybe it's just a phase that comes with any living abroad experience.

[@DutchTresor]

I'm Dutch Portuguese. Last time I met my Portuguese auntie and she invited me to come for Christmas. I said to her without thinking: "I'll need to check my aganda". The whole family was laughing at me. Haha. At this moment I knew how Dutch I am.

[@2ndviolin]

Funny

[@jeanlundi2141]

The orange people got to you! :O Repent while your soul is intanct - signed, a portuguese angel

[@DutchTresor]

@@jeanlundi2141 I'll repent. I bought the ticket already to go to Madeira

[@RezaNimma]

Hahahahahaa

[@tpilot_error404]

Yeah. The Amsterdam culture relates much to the Scandinavian one ( i was an expat there). Belgium is a mix between German , Irish and French. Germany is diverse ( polish in the mix)

[@forkless]

"[...]Because these two ladies do not speak with a filter." It doesn't get more Dutch than that.

[@Claudiettasummer76]

Well ...yeah...whether we like it or not, after so many years here, we have adapted and absorbed some of the Dutch-ness😊

[@gregorjcocco]

Bluntness is not an exclusive prerogative of the Dutch, as asserted. It is crucial to distinguish between bluntness and arrogance, as the latter does not necessarily represent direct communication but often reflects an egocentric attitude. The arrogant behaves like a "boss," imposing their opinions without considering others' perspectives, prioritizing only their personal interest, often of a materialistic nature. On the other hand, the blunt person expresses themselves clearly and directly but is also capable of arguing their opinions, demonstrating critical awareness, using history, logic, and empathizing with others. This type of communication encourages reasoning and reflection. In my experience in Amsterdam, I have noticed that many natives tend more towards arrogance than towards bluntness. A clear example of bluntness can be found in the words of an Italian girl, who shows mastery of concepts and the ability for emotional and human analysis. It is important to emphasize that many Italians, including myself and the girls in the mentioned video, are not servile but kind without compromising their dignity. This attitude may be perceived as a challenge for the Dutch accustomed to a certain degree of submission for material or professional reasons. Mastery of language, self-awareness, and awareness of one's own history make one immune to a servile attitude, instead favoring logical reasoning and respect for human feelings. These qualities are inherent to personality and cannot be taught in school. With regards, G.

[@Claudiettasummer76]

@@gregorjcocco posso dirtelo? Ti lovvo 😍😍😍😍😍😍

[@Claudiettasummer76]

@@gregorjcocco io e la mia amica ti ringraziamo per le tue belle parole che dimostrano di aver capito appieno il nucleo del nostro discorso. Grazie 😍

[@gregorjcocco]

@@Claudiettasummer76 Io ti ammiro molto. Sai Claudia in questi 12 anni olandesi quanto ho aspettato (e auspicato) di poter ascoltare quei concetti da te e da voi proferiti che pensavo ormai facessero parte di una mia inevitabile e conclusiva rassegnazione? Sai, un po' come quando accade di sentire o di avvertire forte un concetto, un'ingiustizia, e percepire il silenzio tutt'attorno. Ecco qualcosa del genere. E mi domandavo: «Possibile che nessuno noti queste ovvietà?» «Possibile che in nome di una materialistica possibilità lavorativa, ci siano esseri umani che riescono a passare sopra questi atteggiamenti così patetici e spesso surreali»? E poi è arrivata Claudia con la sua Amica, e per me è stata una inenarrabile boccata di ossigeno. G.

[@TanyaMakovenko]

Ik ben Oekraiens, ik woon in Nederland sinds 2022. Ik spreek perfect Engels maar ik leer Nederlands. Ja, Nederlanders hebben hun eigen kenmerken, maar ik heb Nederlandse vrienden die spontaan kunnen zijn, we bellen elkaar wanneer we maar willen, en Nederlands is niet zo moeilijk. Lijkt erg op Engels. Integendeel, het lijkt mij dat de familiebanden hier sterk zijn. Maar ik woon vlakbij Arnhem. Amsterdam is een andere wereld 😅😅 Alle mensen zijn verschillend, sommige zijn zoals hier beschreven, en andere niet. In ieder geval een prachtig land en prachtige mensen met intelligentie en hoge klasse.❤❤❤

[@JesseErinkveld]

Dan heb je veel geluk

[@herbertwijchgel6137]

Amsterdam is een andere wereld ! Ja zeker vergeleken met het platteland van Nederland ! Op het platteland zijn ze veel relaxer en het prijspeil is beduidend lager ! Drenthe b.v is 10 x groter dan Amsterdam maar heeft in de gehele provincie de helft van de inwoners !

[@peterjohan6183]

Leuk, ik woon ook vlakbij Arnhem, maar ben hier geboren en getogen. Ik voel me overigens geen Nederlander, nooit gedaan, ik ben een wereldburger. Je schrijft heel goed Nederlands, mijn complimenten. 😉

[@dimrrider9133]

@@JesseErinkveld Ja duh die vluchtelingen krijgen letterlijk alles van onze regering terwijl ze hun eigen volk op straat gooien maar ja dat is e tactiek van de zionisten dat doen de al eeuwen zo WW

[@madvriendt7131]

De dames hadden ook wat tijd kunnen spenderen aan de geschiedenis van hun gastland. Dat hadden ze bepaalde gedragingen beter kunnen begrijpen. Ja, Nederlanders zijn enorm zuinig en verwarmen soms maar 1 kamer, maar dankzij die spaarzaamheid profiteert met name Zuid-Europa van onze rijkgevulde pensioenpot!

[@Claudiettasummer76]

I'm the lady in the video. I wanna clear one thing out: i do speak Dutch. Of course after so many years here i speak the language. I meant to say that it is not easy to learn it for many reasons.

[@TheMovementHub]

And you clearly stated it in the video. Not sure why people keep assuming otherwise.

[@gregorjcocco]

@@TheMovementHub , I have a theory on this matter. As I've mentioned in comments on your previous video productions, many Dutch individuals exhibit a tendency to only 'hear' what they want to hear, disregarding any other elements that may challenge their fragile sense of security, which would crumble upon encountering objective reasoning. The infamous exclamatory phrase 'geen discussie!' ('no discussion!'), often used interchangeably with 'no reasoning,' is frequently employed to cut short any discourse that might potentially embarrass them. Such clumsy tactics may have been effective decades ago within national borders. However, in today's globally interconnected world, they merely serve to expose the cognitive, logical, and emotional deficits that many of them possess. The more they struggle to deny it, the more they unwittingly make themselves objects of ridicule in the eyes of readers worldwide. G.

[@TheMovementHub]

Hi Gregor. Great to see you back in the comments. And I always appreciate how involved you are in the subjects. I also read through your other responses and am glad to have you here. I will refrain from giving my opinion on the matter though. As the creator of this channel, I feel like I need to stay as diplomatic as possible.

[@gregorjcocco]

Hello dear @@TheMovementHub , I've been absent due to a line of thought similar to what you've written: I considered taking a break, given the risk of misunderstandings that sometimes accompany online conversations. Thank you for the work you do and for the warmth you show towards everyone who comments on your videos. Maintaining an impartial and fair attitude is crucial to foster an open and sincere dialogue on a channel of candid content like yours. You produce and share videos that challenge the falsehood of "political correctness" and promote spontaneity and human genuineness. In an era where such content is increasingly rare, I hope your work can inspire a trend towards greater authenticity and honesty in the media. Criticism, when constructive, is never negative. It shows us our imperfections, but also our virtues. It's like a mirror reflecting our essence, even if sometimes what we see can be uncomfortable. There are different types of criticism: thoughtful, respectful, objective, and sometimes even satirical. It's important to keep our critical thinking active, especially considering the rich philosophical and intellectual traditions of past cultures. It's not true that money is the only priority in today's world. It's just one of many human inventions destined to evolve over time. Let's always keep our humanity at the center of our actions and decisions. Let's stay human. G.

[@gregorjcocco]

@@TheMovementHub , I've been absent due to a line of thought similar to what you've written: I considered taking a break, given the risk of misunderstandings that sometimes accompany online conversations. Thank you for the work you do and for the warmth you show towards everyone who comments on your videos. Maintaining an impartial and fair attitude is crucial to foster an open and sincere dialogue on a channel of candid content like yours. You produce and share videos that challenge the falsehood of "political correctness" and promote spontaneity and human genuineness. In an era where such content is increasingly rare, I hope your work can inspire a trend towards greater authenticity and honesty in the media. Criticism, when constructive, is never negative. It shows us our imperfections, but also our virtues. It's like a mirror reflecting our essence, even if sometimes what we see can be uncomfortable. There are different types of criticism: thoughtful, respectful, objective, and sometimes even satirical. It's important to keep our critical thinking active, especially considering the rich philosophical and intellectual traditions of past cultures. It's not true that money is the only priority in today's world. It's just one of many human inventions destined to evolve over time. Let's always keep our humanity at the center of our actions and decisions. Let's stay human. G.

[@krymskyj_jasmyn_ua]

😂😂😂 I am Ukrainian (refugee), living in the Netherlands for 2.5 years (since the war in Ukraine started). The only reason why I am not still fluent in Dutch is that all people here speak English (❤❤❤ thanks God!🙏🙏🙏) and it's possible to get a job without Dutch as well (thanks God and Dutch Government 😊. İt's really helpful cause I can help myself and my family back in Ukraine, as our economy is especially struggling now). İt's really hard to make Dutch friends here but I have several close acquaintances though. I am very very grateful to Dutch people who have welcomed us so warmheartedly. ❤️🤍💙 I'm learning Dutch and hope will speak more or less understandably soon. Bedankt! 🙏💌

[@dionvandenberg]

Graag gedaan ;-)

[@du4d3n]

Lick them lil bit more. They like it.

[@tekk9995]

Welkom. Slava Ukraini!

[@dionvandenberg]

@TimelessMasterpieces1 you may have us confused with Nordic people :-D

[@erikquint1989]

Wat een mooi bericht. Slava Ukraini!

[@francismitchelvdgaag]

I'm also from Southern Europe and also been living in Amsterdam for 6 years and this is quite on point. One thing that still staggers me is this collective fixation on constantly "doing" something and "going" somewhere, that you always have to be busy with something. I'd wish people would be able to switch gears more and also appreciate more the beauty of the little things.

[@ronaldderooij1774]

The Dutch language even has a verb for it! "Niksen" (to do nothing).

[@PonderDuke]

Doing nothing is also scheduled.

[@Mysticism030]

What you are explaining is a common thing in big cities anywhere on the planet not just for Amsterdam only. Travel 30 min and the whole mentality and environment changed. One big fact though, Amsterdam is overrated and does not in the slightest represents the Dutch mentality!

[@hansdeveen7309]

Treu​@@Mysticism030

[@rubbermoetroken]

Hi, as a Dutch I recognise this but rest asure, outside the cities is another game.

[@marioesuc]

Dutch people must be doing something well if despite all this you stay in the country for 25 years. I live here for "only" 6 years, I speak the language and they are happy to speak it back to me if I ask for it. Being critical about how weird they are is not gonna help anyone neither yourself integrating, it's always easier putting the blame on others than yourself. Stay open minded, be curious about their language and therefore their culture, and you will be treated as 1 of them. They are not perfect and they surely need to learn from southern cultures in some regards, but it also goes the other way around. That's where you as an international can pick the best of both cultures and teach by doing on all countries you belong to.

[@Paladin1976]

Typical Dutch: blaming others and don't accept opinions of others. Dude, go eat a stroopwafel and listen to Jan Smit.

[@DianthaNota]

I’m a Dutch person abroad and got really uncomfortable with your Uncle Tom like comment. Maybe these women are forced to stay here because they have half Dutch kids. And regardless, the best employees come from abroad. Maybe the recipient culture should be more humble and adapt to (typically better educated, more civilized and more value adding) outsiders with better perspectives.

[@marioesuc]

@@DianthaNota​​​⁠ You can't live under the expectation a culture will adapt to you because that's not going to happen and this will only cause you unhappiness. In fact I think showing respect and appreciation to the culture that welcomes you is the least you can do, not exactly what I perceived in this video at moments like 2:03 or 6:29 . I agree with you that you can teach the values of your culture that you think can benefit your hosting culture if they like it, but there are more constructive ways of doing it. Don't forget this is just my opinion, and they are free to keep being this critical if they think that works for them.

[@renzofornari4672]

Penso che che qualcosa che ti fa rimanere nel questo picolo paese. E vero!

[@ermusas1]

​@@DianthaNota lol

[@parmentier7457]

Amsterdam is not a city where you know your own neighbor. It is a city in a hurry, politically correct, networking, rapid changes, time is money, looking for a career, many foreign speakers and many expats both from abroad and domestic. In average Dutch cities and villages there is more cohesion between local residents, joint BBQs are organized and there is more time for family visits (and free parking also helps). In small towns and villages, strangers are always greeted, but that is really not the case in Amsterdam. In Amsterdam everyone is for themselves. For a foreigner who wants to emigrate to the Netherlands, I do not recommend choosing Amsterdam, but cities like Amersfoort, Groningen or Den Bosch. Less English is spoken here, so it helps to learn Dutch faster.

[@TheMovementHub]

Thanks a lot for your advice and nice words. And for not getting offended by the video. I also experienced other Dutch cities as more friendly and gezellig than Amsterdam.

[@arossou9638]

"In small towns and villages, strangers are always greeted": This is true, it struck me coming from a small German town, where I spent a year and people don't greet you to a small Dutch town where everyone greets and smiles. I am from an African country, that really pleases me. One of the ladies did stress she's talking about Amsterdam indeed

[@TheMovementHub]

Exactly. I made very similar experiences. People in smaller Dutch towns can be very sweet and greeting each other, which was very refreshing for me, coming from a big city.

[@realpirate]

De groeten uit Venlo . We say HOI when we pass each other on the street here - Come to the hills of Limburg if you want to connect with people !

[@realpirate]

en ja, leer Nederlands and insist on people speaking Dutch with you !

[@RAMDH]

I have also experienced these points in Italy. I was born and raised in the Netherlands, The Hague. Lived and worked in Parma for 5 years. First of all, very few people speak English, but I already knew that in advance. I have been on holiday and with family in Italy often enough. Some information: I have a Dutch mother and Italian father, but my father never taught me Italian. When I went to work in Italy I could speak a very little Italian. Fortunately, the company I worked for was mostly in English internationally. Getting private business done at the municipality or other institutions was a disaster. The language barrier and of course the bureaucracy, chaos, etc. My personal experience is that if you do not know the language and do not adopt the local customs, it is difficult for you to get involved and make friends. From what time, which type of coffee you can and cannot drink to which pasta sauce you can use on which pasta, it differs per city, region, etc. Italy is a fantastic holiday destination but not a place to live. Maybe only when I'm retired. I'm happy to be back in the Netherlands.

[@TheMovementHub]

Appreciate you sharing your experiences. I can see that living in Italy as an expat can be very challenging, and brings its own form of conservatism. But good to hear that you feel comfortable where you decided to move eventually.

[@caliberto5087]

In my opinion too many people speak english here. Italians should learn from France, there if you ask "do you speak english?" they say: "oui, francais très bien". J'aime la France

[@Ark-kv7bj]

@@caliberto5087yeah..ask a Frenchman that when one’s in the Netherlands…😂😂😂😂

[@Cossus666]

@caliberto5087 Not my experience. Italians are very bad at English, they come in the shops speaking Italian and expecting everyone to speak Italian.

[@harenterberge2632]

Family and friends are very important in the Netherlands. It is just done in a different way than in Italy. The six o'clock dinner is so important especially because this is when the whole nuclear family is together. This when everybody tells sbout their day at work, school or at home.

[@TheMovementHub]

Some good insights

[@francismitchelvdgaag]

Then why a lot of people don't sleep overnight in their parents already in adulthood every now and then when they do visit?

[@harenterberge2632]

@@francismitchelvdgaagStudents often stay the weekend at their parents house. But when you have your own real home, it is more comfortable to sleep there than in your old childhood room. And distances are short in the Netherland so you can visit your parents and still be home in time to sleep in your own bed.

[@mario897ful]

And once done, that is also when all the tikkies are equally divided and sent out

[@harenterberge2632]

@@mario897ful generally not within the nuclear family.

[@bepsnet]

I am Dutch but I will not use tikkie, you pay for the other person or you don't, but don't whine afterwards about 50 cents or something like that. I do like spontaneity, if someone suggests something I drop everything and just do what the other person spontaneously wanted to do and this also happens the other way around. I am also old-fashioned, as this says here. I do have foreign friends, but I do have trouble with the fact that they do not master the Dutch language. I always start the conversations in Dutch, but after a while it is all back in English, because they do not understand many things. I notice that this is because they speak to fellow countrymen all day long in their own language, this also creates a barrier in learning the language.

[@naymeequillo]

I love how she distinguishes between Amsterdam and the rest of us. We're a tiny tiny country, but travel 20 minutes and EVERYTHING changes!

[@baardagaam]

There used to be much less of a difference, mass immigration( including Europeans) radically changed the big Dutch cities

[@DianthaNota]

@@baardagaamyes let’s blame the antisocial behavior, they money stuff and the rigidity on immigrants toon🤦🏻‍♀️ how racist can you be

[@baardagaam]

@@DianthaNota I am just saying that mass immigration led to a very big portion of non Dutch people in Amsterdam... So the culture is different, how is that racist to point out? I never mentioned race or skin colour here

[@skleroable]

I live in a small village between utrecht and leiden and basically still the same... but outside of amsterdam there are just more exceptions but most of the people are like she has described

[@Joyabulthuis]

I am a dutch woman living in Italy and I love Italy. And I also love Holland and Amsterdam. Both countries have its pro’s and cons. I have no problems with criticism at all but these two seem so negative.. in this little video I heard nothing possitive so why are they still live there?? If I don’t like a place and its people I would leave..

[@Bluescherry]

I think they are staying here because of all the positive things they didn't mention. They talked about how Dutch can have fun with very little, with a piece of bread and cheese . As an Italian I really like this! I also like the fact that they don't waste too much time in the kitchen and prefer being together singing and drinking. As during the Carneval season...another period of the year when I feel excluded!🥲

[@Albert1249]

Exactly, well said!

[@JP-tr7nj]

I think you are missing the point, they are asked about Dutch culture (compared to their own) and what they say is true, Dutch culture or better said hospitality, is very poor. Only the Japanese score lower on hospitality. It does not say anything about the standard of living, or other pro/cons of living in NL

[@Maderlololohio]

There is always room for improvement. Surely Italy will be some points to work on same as every other country in the world 😊

[@leptirleptiric1]

I can say that I'm delighted because they have moderation in everything. They don't talk too loudly, they don't eat too much, they're not too attached to their parents and friends, while in the Balkan countries and the entire Mediterranean it's all too much for my sensibility and here I feel like I'm with my peoole. If something is not too much, it doesm't mean it's not enough for healty relations and life .

[@STomanovic]

Bas tako.

[@nickb7381]

The whole family topic makes a lot of sense to me. Essentially, it is the hard-fought result of the liberation of the individual, which began with Calvinism and ended with the abolition of pillarisation shortly after the post-war reconstruction. I guess this makes the Dutch quite unique in this particular case. We Dutch often joke, "You can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family." As sad as that may sound, it's true, and for many Dutch people, it has felt that way. The first major step in the life of a Dutch person is gaining freedom at a young age (riding bikes, exploring the neighborhood) without parental supervision. The next major step is leaving the family home altogether. Personally, nothing has given me a greater sense of freedom than leaving home-more so than traveling the world or studying abroad. And this is despite coming from a very loving home. It is not about leaving the family home but rather cutting the umbilical cord with parents and family in general. This is partly because the Dutch, like Nordic and Germanic cultures, tend to be more phlegmatic and introverted in personality. This also explains why it can be somewhat difficult to (no offense) deal with other cultures. Moreover, it’s why many foreign cultures don’t understand that we are relentlessly direct, even though we are relatively introverted and phlegmatic. It doesn’t make sense to most. We tend to stick to the people we choose-those we open our hearts to-rather than those we are biologically or culturally tied to. That said, individualism has become somewhat extreme over the last ten years or so.

[@heleneculioli-atwood6997]

We lived in a small town in the Netherlands: birthdays, making appointments, unheated houses except for the living room, strange attitude to money, flowers, windmills, abruptness in relationships. A bittersweet experience.

[@Albert1249]

Thats how you see it.....will not be the truth for the whole of the Netherlands. Just look at all the positive comments...

[@JP-tr7nj]

I am Polish living in NL for over 40 years, I went with my friend for a quick drink to a pub, I had small meal , he had glass of juice with his daughter, as I asked for the bill and paid it he asked me to send a tikkie :) :) ;) I started to laugh and make fun of him

[@miYAH-w1q]

​@@JP-tr7nj I did not even know that there is such app, because I am not fan of app s at all on the first place 😏

[@joostandhisband9648]

I agree with these ladies. Without speaking Dutch it is difficult to completely integrate. The sitting lady was smart to continue speaking Dutch. On the other hand, there are also very close Dutch families and people that don't mind being generous and pay a restaurant bill. When she keeps having an open mind she might be meeting some of them.

[@TheMovementHub]

Thanks for your input Joost. I hope that this experience will happen at some point.

[@fbabarbe430]

Being spontanious? that is only at holidaytime in a shamefull way. Than we Dutch become crazy. We jump out of our over organised life. I am often ashamed when I am with my compatriots abroad. I don't want to be with them.

[@TheMovementHub]

I also experienced the Dutch as very relaxed and playful when on holiday.

[@OprechtLetterlijkBizar]

Honestly these women are exaggerating beyond measure. I’m Dutch and all of my Dutch friends are quite easy with money, and tikkies are only sent for big amounts. We all see our families quite a lot and call them multiple times per week (I call my mom like every other day). I can’t remember when i last ate a cheese sandwich, and at work we have a caterer who cooks warm meals for lunch for those who want. We usually have dinner somewhere between 7 and 8 PM, and I often text my friends on a Friday to ask them if they have any plans for the weekend… and no, I’m NOT an exception. These bitter women are stuck in their stereotypical ways of thinking…

[@fbabarbe430]

@@TheMovementHub they probably also nicer and relaxed once at home than the average you meet here.

[@FreekVerkerk]

I am born in Amsterdam. You describe the dutch culture well. It is not perfect but we do change, we learn from other cultures, like yours. Thanks for telling. We miss the warmness of the meditarainian culture.

[@noelvanwilgenburg]

These two women, after 23 years, still don’t speak Dutch. That fact alone reflects how they view the Dutch and their culture. I haven’t heard anything positive. Personally, I’m half Dutch and half French, and maybe I’m not the best example since I’m perfectly bilingual. This allows me to compare life in the Netherlands with France quite easily. I also keep an agenda. How could you possibly remember all your appointments? Doctor, dentist, hairdresser, babysitting the grandchildren, and managing your own schedule-it’s too much to handle without some organization. I enjoy a structured life, and keeping appointments and being on time is a way of showing respect for others. By the way, I’ve had a few Italian friends and colleagues who also keep agendas on their iPhones. Without one, you end up just living alongside each other without any real connection. And I have some Dutch friends who are never on time or just show up “à l’improviste” (unannounced), even when you’re about to head out. It’s incredibly frustrating! I think in Italy “La Mamma” is always home with food on the table, ready to serve spaghetti to whoever drops by-essentially being the family’s doormat for people who just come and go as they please. I certainly can’t just drop by unannounced at my family’s homes in France (Amiens, Paris, Nantes); they have their own lives, too! But here in the Netherlands, we live in a highly structured society, and it’s wonderful. Sometimes, we even have a day with nothing planned-that’s a real day off!

[@simonelarocca1197]

Every organized adult has a kind of agenda for duties of everyday life, regardless of the country. What is weird to us Italians is having it for "structuring" social occasions 😉

[@herbertwijchgel6137]

Deze twee vrouwen spreken wel degelijk Nederlands ! Maar het is wel waar ,zo gauw ze Nederlands proberen te spreken gaan Nederlanders over op het Engels ! Want ? Nederlanders vinden het interessant om hun talenkennis vooral van het Engels te etaleren ! Trouwens een van beide vrouwen is /was getrouwd met een Nederlander .

[@Albert1249]

Exactly, well said.

[@Milonification]

​@@herbertwijchgel6137dat is meer je eigen uitleg daarvan volgens mij. Mijn ervaring is dat het is om de ander tegemoet te komen zodat ze kunnen verstaan wat je zegt omdat we er niet vanuit gaan dat iedereen Nederlands kan. Maar misschien ben jij meer een show off ;)

[@Jojo87171]

i'm italian living in italy and all they say about the pros of italian culture vs dutch culture are the things I find really obnoxious here in italy... wanna swap places??

[@TheMovementHub]

Very interesting

[@Claudiettasummer76]

I completely understand what you mean, but I think w can agree that extremes are never good. And you say this now cause you do not live abroad. Try it and lets talk about it again in 10 years.

[@artistadelrincon4862]

This is an accurate list of struggles one goes through as a foreigner. I came 15 years ago, knowing that I want to live the rest of my life here, accepting the host country's culture, laws etc is the only way to live happily ever after. I went through exactly the same struggles. I wouldn't say I feel fully accepted as a Netherlander and probably never will be, but I learned to live with it, and I still think it was the best decision of my life to move here. Food and friendships are indeed better in many countries. But there are some great core values in the Dutch society, too, which makes me love being "Dutch.": - The nonconfrontational manner. A smile, a "Sorry," laughing it off instead of getting upset on small things is something that no other nations can, for example. I think there are way too many foreigners who are not even trying to accept the Dutch way of life and to try integrating. That's why the locals might be a bit rigid sometimes, and I can't blame them for that. No counrty wants to be flooded with people who don't want to be like them. I could write a book about that, so I better stop now.

[@gospel1986]

What these ladies say is absolutely true when I compare it to my own 36 years of experience in the Netherlands. While I speak Dutch fluently, as confirmed by native speakers, adapting has still been extremely difficult. It may appear to be better than other countries on the surface, but in reality, living here is truly challenging.

[@frankasafscimone3920]

I have the same experience after 38 years. I always refused to speak English, which has become an apartheid language. Moved to Israel last year where the people are warm and real.

[@SaschaAltdorf]

Why do so many Italians dislike cultures that aren‘t Italian? And her statement „it‘s not a nice language at all“ 🤮 It‘s a very nice, warm, hearty language that makes you smile

[@yoshidakezi]

Maybe it's just resentment. You know, when the natives ignore your effort to speak the language you can feel rejected, and as reaction you start to hate the language. It happens.

[@JohnBlutarski]

​@@yoshidakeziThe lady on the left apparently didn't make any effort to learn the language after 25 years

[@chatterboxjan8]

I'm not Dutch but have been here 50 years and they are right, the Dutch don't let you integrate fully when they hear a tiny accent.....or see you look different to them they hold you at arms length until they want something, but when you need help......forget it..

[@martinschenk4286]

If you don't speak Dutch, you will still be a tourist in Amsterdam because they recognize English-speaking people as tourists. If I go to America and continue to speak Dutch, I won't get anywhere in between, even though they try to be nice to me.

[@LenQuerido]

😮 If you are a native speaker of the English language, many Dutch don't mind. I know some of them not speaking Dutch after 25 years. Sometimes married with a Dutch partner. I really don't care. I've family in quite a few different countries, as well as in Northern Italy. They are often born in these different countries. I don't see the problem. Can't you adapt? Go back to your home country. I know people who couldn't integrate in Australia with a lot of homesickness. It can be the man or the wife.

[@barbaraferri5584]

I have been living in the Netherlands for 25 years, I am fluent in dutch and feel integrated. It is true what these 2 ladies say, I recognize myself in what they say..I have absorbed a lot of the dutch culture…I am not very spontaneous and love checking my agenda!!!

[@SameyaRakha-n1d]

Sono olandese e vivo in Italia da 3 anni e non mi sono mai sentito a casa nei Paesi Bassi. Parlo e scrivo olandese perfettamente. Ma non ho l'aspetto tipico olandese, quindi gli olandesi mi hanno sempre trattato come uno straniero. Inoltre, quando parlo olandese, gli olandesi mi parlano in inglese. Mi sento italiana: tutti i miei amici nei Paesi Bassi sono italiani e, per via della loro cultura, ho deciso di trasferirmi definitivamente in Italia. Tra circa 9 anni prenderò la nazionalità italiana e perderò quella olandese. L'Italia è la mia casa per sempre ❤

[@PixTax]

The irony of her wanting the Dutch to bring back foreign cultural ideas about how time is spent while not having adapted herself after 23 years.

[@Claudiettasummer76]

I know Dutch culture very well. Living abroad and getting to know a new culture doesn't mean having to adapt to it nor having to rebel against it. I'm entitled to an opinion and while I embrace the positive thing of living here , I'm allowed to say the things I don't like. Nevertheless I'm respectful of this country .

[@Claudiettasummer76]

And if you listen well, I'm talking about things the Dutch like when abroad... if that's the spontaneity, the friendliness.. why not make then part of your life once back in NL? There are things that i like pf fhe dutch culture as well that k wish my people in Italy would have, such as freedom from judgments and no bigots. I do believe that every quality has got its down side and each flaw has got its positive side

[@PixTax]

@@Claudiettasummer76 The Dutch have plenty of bigots. But just because I like something exotic and new abroad doesn't mean I'd want it at home. The Netherlands, for all it's progressive thinking, is still fairly conservative at heart. I've been living in Australia for about 20 years now. And I do like locals do.

[@darkfoxjj]

​@@Claudiettasummer76 I think you missed the posters point. Or don't understand the word hypocritical.

[@Maya77177]

The dutch should adopt no eating at 6 habbit from other cultures. They follow this rule as if its a law from the government. Dont break the laws , dobt be different than the rest, dont have individualusm

[@PetraStaal]

6:30 You will never learn to speak dutch properly if you don't develop a love for it.

[@gregorjcocco]

exact.

[@keilamoreira9459]

Zeker weten! 😊

[@huubkwarten7970]

Onbeschoft om hier 15 jaar te wonen en geen Nederlands te leren!

[@rubenverheij4770]

Hoe meer talen je spreekt, hoe rijker je bent.

[@johnnada1917]

The ladies are generalizing but there's some truth in what they're saying. It does depend on who you're around though, because i'll laugh in your face if ask me for a tikkie, never used it and will never ever tolerate greedy behavior like that. I'm of Greek heritage from my father's side and fully Dutch from my mother's side, and both cultures clash in many, many, many ways. The Dutch mentality like the Italian has good and bad sides, but they both stem from two completely different cultural heritages.Take the good aspects of both cultures and you'll be surprised what can happen. Example: The Netherlands is ridiculously organized, i would say it's overly organized which can lead to a feeling of safety and security but also suffocation/restriction/limitation. Greece is more disorganized and chaotic which can lead to either feeling more free/less restricted but also the feeling of anxiety and a lack of security. I'm sure Italy has the same issues as Greece (although Italy is more organized than Greece) and could benefit from a more planned organized mentality, and the Netherlands could benefit from toning it down a couple of notches and relaxing a bit.

[@qixxor2075]

When you hate a language and then complain you havent learned to speak it after 25 years and blame the locals……

[@transformerstuff7029]

yet Dutch learn different languages just by watching tv lmao.

[@Paladin1976]

Don't be a "azijnpisser". How many Dutch people living in Spain or Italy Don't even attempt to learn the language and live in their own little colonies in those lands? Typical Dutch arrogance.

[@frankasafscimone3920]

Balony. I am a Dutch-English translator and it happened thousands of times that people would address me in English. I always told them to shove it and my Dutch is nearly perfect. Moved to Israel last year and do not miss the apartheid country which discriminates by language. One should speak the language of the country and not discriminate.

[@batepapodamay]

As a Brazilian who spent a few years in Italy, I can tell you that Italians are not so friendly if you come from another culture, they always want to be the best at everything... There too, if you don't speak the language, they look at you strangely. And it's not always that they accept another culture among them. Some are downright racist and discriminate against other cultures. Anyway, I can't say it for everyone, but the vast majority.

[@gregorjcocco]

Dear @batepapodamay , Your intervention in this sea of messages is like an espresso served in a mate tea cup: strong, unexpected, and with an aftertaste of truth that we cannot ignore. You touch upon a raw nerve of our beloved Italy, that paradox which sees us proud of our hospitality while, all too often, we shut the door in the face of those who come from afar. It's as if we've taken the concept of 'parochialism' and elevated it to national policy. And this is being said publicly by a 53-year-old Italian. Your experience in Italy reminds me of an explorer in a jungle: fascinating, but not without pitfalls. Italians who 'always want to be the best at everything'? Ah, this is a disease as old as the Colosseum! It's as if every Italian carried within them a little Caesar, convinced they could conquer the world with a plate of spaghetti. The racism and discrimination you mention are like a stain on a Caravaggio painting: impossible to ignore and painfully out of place. It's a shame that some Italians, descendants of a people who gave the world Dante and Leonardo, can stoop so low. Your experience, dear Brazilian reader, is a wake-up call that we Italians should listen to carefully. It reminds us that openness towards others is not just a matter of courtesy, but of cultural survival in an increasingly interconnected world. In the end, perhaps, we should learn a bit from Brazil: mixing cultures like one mixes a caipirinha, creating something new and wonderful. With the hope that the future sees us more open and less 'parochial', G.

[@Ilske]

I' m Dutch, Family means a lot, for a lot of Dutchies. It is not so much on the surface though.

[@fatimamusallam9563]

I live in Italia I am not Italian and what they’re saying is not really correct they Italian they think only about money they talk about money all the time and they have no time for friendships or for coffee or whatever these people are saying it’s not true sorry sorry sorry

[@fatimamusallam9563]

This talks about these two ladies if it’s really true in Italia, where I live, that means only in small villages, but in cities, even small cities, it doesn’t exist everybody’s working they have no time to see you, and they think all the time every time and talk only about money and opportunities. If it’s not that they don’t see you I live in their country and I know it very well. Sorry sorry

[@profiler4772]

What these ladies seem to forget is the fact that many Dutch families live on a strict budget. Wages are so tight, and taxes are so high that any impact of eating outdoors or going for drinks, particularly paying for anybody else, ultimately drives a family into a financial corner. In The Netherlands the Dutch are there to be ripped off by the government (ao to support the EU and in particular Italy) in countries like Italy the government is ripped off by the Italians. Lack of money causes social isolation and for the Dutch the ripping off has been going on for decades. In case we do have some savings to go on holidays, we are always calculating and controlling the expenses simply because we have to. If we go to Italy and see how lavishly the Italians live, we are amazed but still admire. Bringing home such lavishness is completely unaffordable. These ladies are fully aware of all of this but are just being nasty.

[@roodborstkalf9664]

Indeed, Dutch people working in the Netherlands have to pay much higher income taxes then foreign people working in the Netherlands.

[@sjakrijnen]

Right wing blabla. We pay taxes and get a lot out of that. That’s our way to be collective.

[@profiler4772]

@@sjakrijnen Collective??????? Wha, ha, ha, ha. No broad daylight theft! Socialists are collective until somebody else's money runs out. Dit zijn gewoon een stel valse roddel tantes. Wil je dit soort vrouwen als vriendin?

[@ayeshazubair4552]

My husband is Dutch, I couldn't agree more !!

[@Maya77177]

How do you deal with the eating at 6 situation? Did you have to adjust to him or he adjusted to you?

[@Cossus666]

@@ayeshazubair4552 but you're still married to him.

[@juandelraymendez1894]

If you want too learn dutch, where they speak english to you ,and you want to speak dutch, just tell them that you don't speak english, that's how i learnd

[@frankwalders]

To claim that an entire nation lacks family values or deeply felt friendships is quite offensive and hard not to take personally. I see my 88-year-old mother every other week, and we have dinner together. When she broke her arm last year, my four brothers and I took shifts to help her out. I think the most exhausting thing for her was having all these men in her house all the time, as she’s very keen on her independence. That’s something we learn as Dutch people-freedom. But that doesn’t mean I don’t love her dearly or wouldn’t do anything for her. Calling everyone my friend would be hell for me, and indeed, there’s a distinct difference between colleagues and friends. The former come and go, while the latter are usually for life. Having three true friends is how it is for me, and yes, we make appointments, so we can spend genuine, meaningful time together. (Full disclosure: everybody hates the birthday parties.) By the way, I love hearing Dutch with an Italian accent, and I adore the blissful Italian food culture and its romantic Fellini vibe. You have no idea how welcome you are! En ik heb geen idee waarom ik dit nu allemaal in het Engels schrijf!

[@JP-tr7nj]

I agree with her. Just because of the fact of the huge amount of "bejaardentehuis" in NL. In Eastern Europe you take care of your parents just like they took care of you, it would be a disgrace to put them away in a bejaardentehuis and visit 4 x per year

[@dkcb7]

In Holland the primary thing when Dutch people interact or just by looking at you is to put you in a box (hokjes mentaliteit) because of the prejudices they have to deal with, not always in a bad way, especially in a mixed culture. Coldness in hearth, sometimes micro-agressive, ambiguous and too direct can make them come across stiff. Probably an aspect for most wealthy countries where individualism is normal.

[@theliesisire7485]

But sometimes people also justify their rudeness with the 'being direct' argument. And the typical thing is when you call them out on it, they don't like it a lot of times. That's where Scandinavian countries are different. They also speak their mind but give more consideration to the receivers feelings. Im from Limburg, im pretty direct myself but I agree a lot of times with the view foreigners have of the Randstad (cause that's what 99% of these videos are about).

[@jeroendevl7825]

I am Dutch and my wife is Indian. I can tell its hard for her to make Dutch friends. And I think in general for a foreigner it is more difficult no matter what country. But also take into account your age as well. I think the older you get the more difficult it is to make those really close friendships you had when you were younger. Simply because your live changes alot. Full time job etc. Anyway, I can tell also that Dutch people are or can be reserved asf. Also I can confirm that in my case family ties are very weak. But I also know that doesnt mean with all Dutch families. Got friends who are way more tight with their families. And yeah, I know Dutch people in general speak English and will talk English to you but dont blame them. They do that to make you feel comfortable. We are not like French people who often refuse to speak English because they think you should speak their great language. Or Germans who keep speaking german (new generations speak proper english tho). Nevertheless, anyway can expect you to speak the language of the country you live in after so many years. In the end its you who needs to do the effort to learn it and not others. We got Indian friends who speak proper Dutch after 5-6 years. And I can tell you it way more difficult to go from Hindi or Urdu to a Latin based language with different alphabet. But I agree. Dutch language sucks big time. The grammar makes no sense. So many not logical exceptions. And I believe it sounds horrific to a foreigner. I mean in the end it is like a big mix of English / French and in majority German with a twist.

[@kalebind1]

Did not read lol : bunch of random guys performing dancing movements in the background:

[@jeanlundi2141]

I think many dutch are not aware just how sensitive they are. Or maybe it's a sense that they have it all figured out, because by many modern metrics they are considered one of the most "evolved" countries. It's ok if a person doesn't like something about your culture. No one likes to be criticized, of course, but this dutch love of "honesty" seems very one-sided if no one gets to say things about your culture too.

[@TheMovementHub]

Very interesting point you make, and very visible in the comments section

[@jaccooccaj217]

@@TheMovementHub It is not the critisim, it is the way it is done. Living somewhere for 23 years and then still get annoyed by the fact that people eat 18:00 and that they don't take your call when they are eating... Why not accept that that is how it is done here (by a lot, not ALL Dutch people)? The way the right lady speaks with such resentment about the culture in the country SHE decided to move to. I know the Dutch are like the opposite of latin mentallity. It is like cats and dogs. I know you have some valid points, but EVERY culture has pro's and cons. If you are unable to cope with that... well maybe, just maybe you shouldn't move to another country?

[@Asdos.]

Yes jaren. There's abit of truth to it but i don't think it's the complete story either. I will get pretty defensive when I get critiqued if I'm not expecting the angle they're coming at. I do however really value feedback. The feedback that makes you think and you can learn from. But i will put your feedback to the test so be ready to defend it. I believe this is true dutch culture. You both have your own strong opinion about things and you end up somewhere in the middle. This is in essence the polder model. And that's peak culture and it's something I'm proud of as a dutch:)

[@rubenskiii]

The funny thing is that Amsterdam is by most people in the Netherlands not seen as a good or nice place, and although the original inhabitants of Amsterdam where very well known for being very social and spontaneous the vast majority of them has been replaced, litteraly. Amsterdam got too expensive for them. So now the people that mainly live in Amsterdam are regarded either as foreigners, expats(we make a difference between those groups) or “yuppen”(people with money that think they are cool). Not saying this is 100% correct but it’s how most of the country views it and there certainly is plenty of evidence for it. In the rest of the country hospitality varies, i live in the south and people will sit in their front gardens and invite people of their neighborhood over for coffee spontaneously, they have unplanned get togethers and staying over for dinner often is seen as something that is a given. You came over to visit, you get fed properly. My family is from the coast, and everyone lives close together. My grandma is called “oma” by almost everyone and neighborhood kids come over to make pancakes and pies. They go out fishing together and share the catch with neighbors. There is a big group of people organizing cultural events and if u come across someone on the street you often find yourself in long conversations. The meme of “je mag 1 koekje van de koektrommel” certainly exists but it’s specific to the region of Amsterdam and above.

[@basbouwman5139]

All Amsterdammers live in Almere now😂

[@marijn177]

Dutch local here, your description is spot on, very true!

[@anastasia10017]

Actually the wedding thing is normal etiquette and it is not a "Dutch thing". You get married in the church, you can invite 400 people if you want -- and that includes your butcher, the friendly old man across the street, your co workers, your dental hygienist, someone you went to grade school with 20 years ago but haven't seen in 10 years, ex boy/girl friends, the cashier at the store who did you a nice favor, etc... and after the wedding ceremony, there is a gathering in the church reception rooms and there are some refreshments and a small champagne toast to the bride and groom. After that, there is the wedding reception where only family and very close friends are invited. This is not to classify people --whether you invite 10 people or 400 people to the church ceremony costs the same and it allows you to include participation for people outside of your close social circle. It is INCLUSION, not EXCLUSION and a way to show that you thought highly enough of them to send them an invitation and for people to feel they participated a little in your life . It is also an opportunity for a community gathering and social interaction - the dental hygienist might hit it off with your ex and the old man had the opportunity to meet new people and the priest/minister is happy to have people in his church. It also puts no obligation on them other than to show up in their Sunday best and they are not expected to give any kind of wedding gift. The people who are invited to the reception are close friends and family. The reception is very expensive. The people who are invited to the reception are expected to give wedding gifts.

[@marten73]

They are just repeating the same old stereotypes that keep floating around. No close Dutch friends but still they know exactly how the Dutch (all of them?) are. They are 23 years in the Netherlands, one of them still managed to learn it, and blaming it on the Dutch? I know many expats who speak near perfect Dutch after just 2 or 3 years and have built good friendships with locals. I think Dutch society is much more open than the Italian. Good luck finding a decent paying job in Italy as an outsider. Best jobs are reserved to their so beloved 'friends and family'. Can any immigrant in Italy easily build meaningful friendships with locals? These ladies need a reality check.

[@Claudiettasummer76]

I see your point, but what we talk about are not clichés, it's reality. And of course there are many things that are not ok in Italy or else we would not be here ,right? Life is about priorities: NL offers nevertheless positive things that matter to me in this point of my life. I sacrifice some wishes ,dreams for the sake of other important things. As life continues and I will change with it, and my priorities will change too, I could/might/will leave. Life is unpredictable. And yes, reason no.1 for not going to italy is work. In another video I talk very well about working conditions in NL.

[@Claudiettasummer76]

and btw : I do speak dutch, I did not say I don' t speak it. I said they don't make it easy for you to learn it. And of course , even thought I do not have close dutch friends, I know the dutch. I was married to one for 15 years, my kids go to school here , I AM integrated and this is why I can have an opinion based on MY facts. It remains of course my own POV. This is not an absolute truth, but what I havve experienced. I understand it hurts for the dutch to hear it, immediately the reaction goes into defense, into "well if you do not like it go back to your own country " ( I see why WIlders won the elections...). It also hurts me to hear all the MAFIA ( one F in the spelling..) jokes the dutch make when they speak to us, italians, or the hand gestures ( used every single time in the wrong way ) . So I feel your feelings.

[@LaFabrizia1983]

This specific video was about life in The Netherlands. I am pretty sure these two ladies would have been just as frank and open had the topic been about life in Italy. After all, the fact that they are still living in the Netherlands after so many years speaks for itself. Take a chill pill.

[@willvangaal8412]

@@Claudiettasummer76 Als Nederlannd zo slecht is in jullie ogen , waarom verkas je dan niet naar Italie , ik zou er nog niet eens over hoeven na te denken , want jullie hebben jezelf al jaren gemarteld zo te horen . Wat was dat spreekwoord ook alweer , de hand die jou aait bijt je niet .

[@transforgoku]

Italy is a low trust society, what did you expect?

[@peterj.reurings9927]

I am Dutch, and i got to say this was outright painfull to watch. I don't mind ismf you talk about my people and culture, but it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about with most of this. Family is important to most of us, but we live our own lives too, you said it yourself, its a cultureof less of, i dont need to call my family everyday to care about them. I saw in the comments that at least one of you speak dutch, appreciate the effort, but yea, fitting in without speaking it is hard. Also Amsterdam does not represent the Netherlands as a whole, check out the more rural east of brabant, that will open you mind. We may not be be very open, but that is just our culture, its who we are. if you wanna speak in dutch, just ask us. In my experience its that we speak English so well that we assume its eazier that way, just be blunt and keep speaking dutch, and tell us to speak dutch. P.s. i am a but of an outlier from the norm, so not all may apply to other dutchies.

[@BigPharma-pe3mr]

I love her Italian+ness 😊 "or somebody got-I don't know-a diploma for some reason" 😂😂 lol 1:48

[@MrSeine2]

I'm Dutch. And yes I switch very fast to English. Sorry for that. The key thing, is the moment I hear more English than Dutch. I don't even notice it. Living abroard is hard. Making new friends. Adapting to that new country and the "weird" people. The things mentioned are true in many cases. But sometimes not. It's been 2 decades. Hope it's not all bad. That would be a waste of time. For other foreigners I would recommend joining clubs. It's less stresfull than work, and a good way to find people with same interests. Try to stay as close to yourself as possible. People will get used to your "strange" way of doing things.

[@darkfoxjj]

I sometimes speak Dutch with an English accent and then get replied to in English. Even when I then continue talking to them in Dutch. It's bizarre.

[@clintwalker1531]

The Dutch people fit in with my personality perfectly. They respect your time and they respect your space. No one knocks on your door without phoning you beforehand. Oranje boven alles.😂

[@Facts.Are.Straight]

These ladies nailed it. But mind you, this is the city life. In villages everyone knows each other and will interact more closely, while in the city most people live closed off from each other. Mastering the language will help to connect more easily with some people at work, who can become friends.

[@japiefloradorp9265]

These two Italian ladies may be right about many things they say, absolutely no doubt about that. At the same time, they confirm the impression that many people have about most of the Italians, this tendency to feel themselves superior.

[@gregorjcocco]

@japiefloradorp9265 , You touch upon another raw nerve, a paradox that deserves exploration. And I say this as an Italian. On one hand, we have these two Italian ladies who, with their quintessentially Mediterranean frankness, put their finger on objective Dutch social dynamics. On the other hand, in doing so, they seem to confirm that stereotype of the 'superior' Italian (which I suppose you mean to indicate as 'vainglorious') that has been haunting us abroad for some time. But let's pause for a moment. What truly is vainglory? And what distinguishes it from legitimate cultural criticism? You see, my dear, we Italians have the gift (or the curse, depending on one's perspective) of having grown up immersed in beauty, in art, in a way of life that privileges human relationships and spontaneity. This cultural baggage is not vainglory, but heritage. A heritage that, when we confront different cultures, emerges forcefully, sometimes even without our knowledge. Are our two compatriots not perhaps expressing a real discomfort? The lack of spontaneity, the rigidity in social relations, the obsession with planning... These are not the whims of those who feel superior, but acute observations from those who come from a profoundly different culture. Certainly, the way these observations are expressed may seem presumptuous to unaccustomed ears. Although it's paradoxical coming from those who pride themselves on being frank and direct. But let's not confuse form with substance. Behind those words lies a wealth of experience, a depth of feeling that should not be dismissed as mere vainglory. In a world that increasingly mistakes superficiality for efficiency and materialism for success, perhaps we need voices that remind us of the importance of human relationships, spontaneity, and the joy of living. Our Italian ladies, with their seemingly critical comments, are actually offering a precious gift: a mirror in which Dutch society (and not only) can reflect itself and, perhaps, rediscover aspects of itself that it risks losing in the race towards an increasingly aseptic modernity. In the end, dear reader, perhaps we should all learn to look beyond appearances, to seek the substance behind the words. We might discover that what seems like vainglory is actually an invitation to rediscover values that, in the frenzy of modern life, we risk forgetting. With the hope that this cultural exchange may enrich us all, Italians and Dutch alike, G.

[@beavisburzum1280]

I just wanted to say that I lived in the UK for 26 years and they also have different invitations for wedding there depending how close you are to the bride and groom. Mostly it is to reduce coast for the dinner but most are invited to the party afterward

[@donaldvanberkum8666]

Italy must be better than the Netherlands ,dit i read this correct 23 years of frustration, Are the borders closed?

[@samsadeniz]

No jobs, no money in Italy

[@BigPharma-pe3mr]

​@@samsadeniz I wonder how they live?

[@bslangable]

This right here is EXACTLY why they find it hard to make friends here. They want and enjoy all of the benefits, they probably live in a nice house while Dutch natives struggle to find one, they have their medicare, there's little corruption here so they enjoy the feeling of safety...etc etc. but they still act like they have superiour culture and everything is better over in their native country. and THAT is exactly what the Dutch don't like.

[@Dodo-ym8cc]

@bslangable every culture in Europe are superior to dutch culture. British people are open to new friends and very sociable, they also are not cheap when it comes to food and breakfast, the famous english breakfast! Compare that to the poor dutch sandwich.

[@Nekane_L]

How welcoming you are @donaldvanberkum8666, you and your Dutch directness... These ladies are as direct as you Dutch people are, then get what you give.

[@Pantora10]

Probably the only reason foreigners stay in Holland is because of the money and the easy way to find jobs. Some stay because of the coffieshops. One thing is for sure. The Italian women are right in all they say. They are very honest.

[@Albert1249]

The southern and northern european cultures differ a lot, and complaining about the difference isnt showing much understanding.

[@daluzsoares]

Third generation from Portugal born here in the Netherlands, so you think that Italians who come on holiday to the Netherlands and enjoy it and come back home should behave very differently?😂😂😂

[@OprechtLetterlijkBizar]

The thing is that their statement that Dutch are not friendly or easygoing is a false one to begin with. In fact, though I agree the Dutch can be brutally blunt and direct, they’re also known to be friendly, curious to others, social, open, and willing to help others. This is what many other expats and tourists attest to. By comparison the Germans, Swiss, Nordics people are much more formal and reserved than the Dutch are, and in addition the French are a lot less friendly generally speaking. I think these women just have a lot of bad personal experiences, not sure how else I can clarify their statements. By the way, I’m Dutch and have lived in the US, Belgium, and I just moved back to Amsterdam after having lived in Switzerland for 8 years… so I am able to make some comparisons. Fact is that when you live in a foreign country for some time, you tend to romanticize your home country after a while, and start seeing through pink glasses. That’s just how our brain works. We tend to remember the positives and forget about the negatives. And then when you actually move back, you’re in for a reality check. The Netherlands and Amsterdam are certainly no paradise, but these women do picture it a lot worse than it really is.

[@TheMovementHub]

Many valid points raised, most of which I agree with

[@Claudiettasummer76]

@daluzsoares I'm not saying they should, I'm saying that they could re-evaluate their behavior and if they liked the friendliness im italy ( or another southern country) why not starting to be friendlier here? And that was just an example...after all dont tourists do the same when trying a new dish when they are on holiday? Trying to make it in their own kitchen?sure it won't taste the same at first ... but with practice everything gets better

[@OprechtLetterlijkBizar]

@@Claudiettasummer76 Aren’t people in all big cities across Europa less friendly and less personal than in smaller towns? I’ve been to Italy many times and honestly I don’t recall Italians being extremely friendly in Rome or in Milan. Not unfriendly either, but just kinda neutral. I don’t find people in Amsterdam unfriendly either (in general) but for sure (myself coming from the South of the country) I do notice Dutch people are more friendly outside of the Randstad, especially in the Southern provinces. Generally people in capitals or in bigger cities are less friendly than people living in the country side.

[@Claudiettasummer76]

@@OprechtLetterlijkBizar yes, sure. But in not referring to ppl being friendly in a generic way.... but more towards expats, so ppl living here.

[@vlakdrak4774]

Whatever these women say its blown way out of proportions. I find the dutch really friendly. They say hello on the street, they talk to you in a line and they are actually pretty helpful people.Yes, they are organized and they like planning. Italians are quite the opposite of that therefore the disconnect. You can't call a dutch out of the blue or go ring at the door and if you live in NL you should respect that.If you are an immigrant you adapt to the culture of where you are not the other way around. Sorry, but if you are 25 yrs in NL and you are unable to speak a word of Dutch thats on you. Saying they don't integrate you cause they reply in English is just lazy.

[@Claudiettasummer76]

once again, in the video I am not saying I dont speak dutchm which I do and I also have my NT2 diploma. I am saying that they do not make it easy for a foreigner to learn it. And of course I respect that the ducth are not like italians ( like calling a friend out of the blue) and will not oblige tthe dutchie to accept my unplanned calls /visits ( I am a very polite person) but I believe I am allowed to an opinion. I just think in life there should be more room for spontaneity

[@gregorjcocco]

@@Claudiettasummer76 Learning a foreign language becomes particularly challenging when those who speak it fail to demonstrate empathy or a genuine inclination towards spontaneous communication. Claudia's observation is undeniably valid: "It's extremely difficult for a foreigner to learn a foreign language in this context." It's worth noting, furthermore, that we're referring to a language that objectively doesn't stand out for its musicality. Many foreigners even describe it as "cacophonous," especially when compared to more harmonious and melodious languages found in the global linguistic landscape. However, as previously highlighted, considering that foreigners in the Netherlands are essentially guests, it's legitimate to expect these guests to communicate with the Dutch in the local language. On this point, my position is categorical. So let's discuss the learning and usage of the Dutch language. During the learning process and afterward, when the language has been acquired, what are we talking about? In what contexts is it used? The Dutch language is primarily used in two domains: the workplace, characterized by pragmatism and materialism, and in superficial conversations, sometimes resembling elementary school dialogues, a circumstance that would be considered childish in other parts of the world. Superficiality, however, certainly isn't the main driver behind linguistic production. The use of the Dutch language thus essentially boils down to work and surface-level interactions. This is an undeniable reality. Claudia expresses a desire to see greater room for spontaneity within the cultures present in this region. Personally, I believe that this aspiration is utopian, as a "superficial and spontaneous" approach would come across as surreal and childish. It's no coincidence that in these parts, "spontaneity" is almost always associated with the consumption of alcohol or drugs. However, it should be emphasized that this doesn't represent genuine spontaneity but rather a form of mental alteration adopted by those who are unable to overcome inhibitions and show their true selves. Another factual reality. On one hand, this situation is very sad; on the other, it often evokes feelings of tenderness and compassion in me. G.

[@Claudiettasummer76]

@@gregorjcocco oh my God... if only I was able to express myself as well as you do... I'd say the same exact things. Thanks for reading my thoughts

[@gregorjcocco]

@@Claudiettasummer76 Dear Claudia, I clearly grasped your ideas thanks to the genuineness and authenticity with which you expressed them. The spontaneous manner in which you shared your thoughts made evident the level of human sensitivity that likely unites us. However, allow me to assure you that this is not just a trait of mine; I am certain that anyone watching this video can perceive exactly what I have discerned. In this regard, Claudia, I urge you not to be swayed by the "anomalous" responses I see you receiving. These are replies written by individuals who feel exposed and react with clumsy resentment. Sometimes they attempt to minimize or shift the focus of the discussion, while other times they simply utter nonsensical absurdities. When a response lacks substance, it is always misguided. I believe the time is coming when many Dutch people will realize that their attitude of presumed superiority, primarily stemming from the colonial period, is now outdated. Today, there is no longer the colonizer dictating to the colonized what to do and how to do it with a simple "geen discussie" at the end of the sentence. Yes, it's true: there are still some "expats" who tend to bend under this coercion, but more and more people are putting forth objective facts and beginning to evaluate without feeling the need to appear condescending towards the "Dutch merchant" of the moment. Even the most stubborn Dutch will inevitably have to resign themselves to this new reality. Either they behave in a humane manner, or they will be relegated to the ranks of materialists, individualists, and apathetic antisocial individuals of the planet. With respect,🤗 G.

[@gregorjcocco]

Salve @@Claudiettasummer76 , cercavo di contattarti tramite messaggio, ma ho visto che KZbin proprio non prevede questa opzione (i social non sono il mio forte, in sostanza ho soltanto facebook che uso poco o niente). Come potrei fare via internet per porti 2 domande circa l'esperienza amsterdamese ? Grazie G.

[@rubbermoetroken]

Haha, great to hear! We actually have some Italian friends who might say the opposite-though they live outside the big cities, which does make a big difference. The English language can be a bit of a barrier to integration, but it’s all done with good intentions to make life easier here. Socially, I would have expected you to mention weekends spent with family-something we don’t do as much, but which our Italian friends deeply miss. Personally, I love Italian culture and Italians; they add so much color to Dutch life, which, I’ll admit, can sometimes feel a bit dull. And since you’ve been here for decades, I’d imagine you must at least enjoy our bitterballen, broodje kaas, frikandellen, wooden shoes, tulips, windmills, and maybe even a joint every now and then! hahahaha. Grazie mille, ciao!

[@jorisvoorndj]

All so true, and that's coming from a Dutch (but well travelled) person.

[@justadutchman5169]

‼️ I’m a native Dutch born and raised in Amsterdam and I tell you they are 💯 100% right, maybe sad but true.😅‼️ In 2025 there will be over 1 million people living in Amsterdam. 🙄😬 So it is densely populated.

[@ayethegreat4997]

😂😂😂😂😂😂 whoever made this video is a rockstar. I wanna be friends with those ladies. They are a hoot!!

[@TheMovementHub]

Hahahah thank you thank you. Much appreciated 😁

[@Claudiettasummer76]

ah ah ! Thanks! Yes, we can be very amusing, kinda like the Statler of the muppet show ahaha1 :)

[@Maya77177]

I want to be friends with them too. I have so much to share about my 20 year stay in this shitland

[@erinashtar7425]

So true ladies, thank you for your frank speaking !

[@emo122009]

Let's never forget that it is not about being right or being wrong. Cultures can be different, that is a nice and good thing.

[@Bessintheworld2]

My father is Dutch American and my mother Italian American and I couldn't agree more!

[@Cossus666]

I live in the Netherlands for over 20 years and can say that these women are talking out of their bum. The problem is them.

[@christi6934]

Whenever I see videos like this one I always wonder what people the interviewees hang out with and where they meet these people. Those situations that always get mentioned never sound familiar at all, like living in two different worlds😅

[@stridbhk]

As a Dutch woman I recognize a lot in the stories of these ladies. Unfortunately, that's why I'm fond of the Italian culture, I like a lot. The separation at a wedding has a lot to do with money, you cannot invite everybody to the wedding dinner, so that complaint I don't understand.

[@OprechtLetterlijkBizar]

Honestly these women are exaggerating beyond measure. I’m Dutch and all of my Dutch friends are quite easy with money, and tikkies are only sent for big amounts. We all see our parents and siblings quite a lot and call them multiple times per week (I call my mom like every other day). I can’t remember when I last ate a cheese sandwich, and at work we have a caterer who cooks warm meals for lunch for those who want. We usually have dinner somewhere between 7 and 8 PM, and I often text my friends on a Friday to ask them if they have any plans for the weekend… and no, I’m NOT an exception. These bitter women are stuck in their stereotypical ways of thinking…

[@susansobel3571]

Their's is exactly mine and my expat friends experience. No one is bitter, amused maybe but not bitter.

[@kmom452]

​@@susansobel3571It's my experience as well. The lack of family contact is astounding.

[@adamv2628]

as a Dutch guy I can only say the Italian ladies are completely right.....I love them!

[@opalia8997]

I'am a Maroccan living my hole live in the Netherlands. I love the dutch culture and it is sad that everybody is speaking English and there are not so many Dutch farms anymore and fish store's. Bring back the Dutch culture. I miss the Holland of the "80 and "90.

[@gregorjcocco]

@opalia8997 Dear Moroccan friend , Your message has touched me particularly because, in this sea of opinions, you offer us a unique and precious perspective on the Netherlands of yesterday and today. Your nostalgia for the Netherlands of the '80s and '90s is like the scent of tulips mingling with the aroma of smoked fish: sweet, intense, and a bit poignant. It makes me think of a Netherlands that perhaps exists more in memories than in reality. An image that, I fear, is disappearing like the morning mist on Amsterdam's canals. You touch upon a raw nerve of modern Dutch society: the progressive erosion of traditional cultural identity. The proliferation of English, farms disappearing like polders below sea level, and fish shops closing down. It's as if the Netherlands were slowly sinking, not into water, but into a sea of globalisation. But do you know something? Your voice, precisely because it comes from afar, could be the wake-up call that the Dutch need. You, with your love for 'classic' Dutch culture, could be the custodian of traditions that the Dutch themselves risk forgetting. Perhaps, my dear, it's up to people like you - immigrants who love and appreciate the culture of the country that has welcomed them - to keep the flame of tradition alive. Your beautiful and rare nostalgia should not be a burden, but a driving force. A force to preserve and revive those aspects of Dutch culture that risk disappearing. Because, after all, the true culture of a country is not the one frozen in museums, but the one that lives in the hearts of those who love it. With the hope that your love for the Netherlands may also inspire those who have taken it for granted, G.

[@opalia8997]

@@gregorjcocco Doe het in het Nederlands want mijn Engels is niet zo goed. Wat een prachtig poëtische reactie van u. U kunt zo mooi schrijven zo poëtisch, mijn complimenten hiervoor. Heb nog nooit zo een mooi antwoord gehad en dat nog wel over Nederland. Helaas zal het oude Nederland altijd in gedachten blijven zoals u zei, want er zijn zoveel Nederlanders ook politieke Nederlanders die strijden voor de Nederlandse Cultuur maar helaas is het niet te winnen. Door de komst van multinational bedrijven, en de moderne technologie plus de wetten van Europa vergaat de Nederlandse cultuur. Ik zal nooit vergeten hoe het was en dat blijf ik koesteren. Dankuwel.

[@gregorjcocco]

Beste@@opalia8997 , Uw opmerking is op zich al mooi, omdat uw reactie de schoonheid van ontmoetingen tussen gevoelige zielen laat zien, zelfs in een zee van virtuele berichten. Dit bericht doet bij mij deze gedachte weerklinken. En het weerklinkt diep. In een tijd waarin interacties steeds meer worden gemedieerd door schermen en algoritmen, is het feit dat twee mensen zich kunnen verbinden door het delen van ervaringen en gevoelens een daad van culturele weerstand. Het is een herinnering dat, ondanks geografische en culturele afstanden, er een menselijke broederschap bestaat die de barrières overstijgt. Laten we ons nu de reactie voorstellen van de 'klassieke' hedendaagse Amsterdammer tegenover deze spontaniteit. Waarschijnlijk zal hij zijn neus ophalen, niet in staat om te begrijpen hoe het mogelijk is om het hart te openen zonder een abonnement op een datingapp of zonder 'de juiste persoon' in de werkomgeving te hebben ontmoet. Voor hen lijkt empathie een formaliteit te vereisen die vreemd kan aanvoelen voor degenen die gewend zijn aan directere en oprechtere relaties. Toch is er in deze uitwisseling tussen een Marokkaan en een Italiaan iets diepers: een impliciete kritiek op die soort 'immuniteit voor gevoelens' die Martial al opmerkte bij zijn tijdgenoten. De oude Romeinse dichter doopte hen met de bijnaam 'Auris Batava', omdat hij zich geconfronteerd zag met een volk dat, hoewel het had geleerd lezen en schrijven van de Romeinen, leek te falen in het begrijpen van de ironie en poëzie van het leven. Tegenwoordig zouden we kunnen zeggen dat sommige Nederlanders, hoewel ze toegang hebben tot een rijke en gevarieerde cultuur, blijven leven in een soort emotionele bubbel. Uw nostalgie naar een authentiek Nederland, dat van oprechte menselijke banden en levendige tradities, is een oproep tot de noodzaak om waarden te herontdekken die dreigen verloren te gaan in de drukte van vooruitgang. Cultuur is niet alleen een verzameling normen en praktijken; het is een verbindend weefsel dat ons met elkaar verbindt, en wanneer dit weefsel verzwakt, verliezen we een deel van onze menselijkheid. In dit opzicht is uw reflectie een uitnodiging aan ons allemaal: laten we ons niet laten vangen door labels of vooroordelen. Laten we onze harten en geesten openen voor authentieke dialoog, voor oprechte nieuwsgierigheid naar de ander. Alleen zo kunnen we bruggen bouwen in plaats van muren. Met de hoop dat deze spontaniteit ook kan bloeien op plaatsen waar ze lijkt te ontbreken, stuur ik u een grote knuffel (hoewel virtueel), G.

[@jujubesification]

I think that this is a clear example of not understanding each other. I'm not here to defend the Dutch culture, btw, even though I'm Dutch. I've noticed that in a lot of cultures, directness is linked to anger and either defensiveness or offensiveness. I'm not 100% sure and it is different in different cultures. In the Netherlands, it's culturally/historically linked to effectiveness, honesty and integrity. Doesn't mean it still is like that in practice - we've drifted away from that, but that those are the values it represents. I remember losing a friend from India when she finally told me the truth, which was for me a start of mutual understanding and for her a way of ending. Not understanding what something means, and projecting a worse intention than is behind it, can't lead to intimate friendships or close connections.

[@TheMovementHub]

The good thing about cultural differences is that we can learn from each other. But from your comment you seem to be an open and critical individual anyway.

[@jujubesification]

​@TheMovementHub hey, I fully agree that we can learn from each other. I think though, that while it's easy to see what others need to learn, it can be much harder to see what we ourselves need to learn. Often it happens that we look at something, don't understand it and we don't like it. So we tend to focus on the negative things of it. This can make it hard to see the nice things about it, the value in it. Being honest can be a beautiful thing: very freeing and leading to real mutual understanding. It can also be ugly: intending to hurt and destroy. Intention matters I said we because I place myself in the we, I have the same things to overcome. To look to actually see the value in difference.

[@TheMovementHub]

I 100% agree with you. Very well said.

[@maryannecomment3302]

I am Dutch. The planning culture is true, but it has not always been like that. When I was young (1960-1980) we also visited people spontaneous. But when everybody had a phone, it changed. A visit has to be planned. I came from a village near the German border. In that region, we are family oriented. When I moved to a place near Utrecht, I also had to get used to the more individual culture in the Randstad. It is really difficult to learn and speak a foreign language on a level that one can communicate as a native speaker. In the Netherlands, people do not realize that this is sometimes too hard for a foreigner. When I lived in Spain, I met many Dutch people that could only order a coffee with milk in a restaurant in the Spanish language, and not a word more, after living for 25 years in Spain. It is a lot harder than one thinks. In Spain, as an Expat, you speak a lot to other Expats in Dutch, English or German and just a few times to locals in Spanish, so your language skills in Spanish do not develop. I actually agree with everything these Italian ladies say about the Dutch culture, it is true.

[@arjanarendse1451]

I’m Dutch. I recognize what is shown in the video. Us Dutchies are a bit of a strange bunch sometimes. But we are improving😊. We do not eat before 1900h and mostly around 2000h. Speaking multiple languages as most of us do, does indeed make it hard for others to learn the Dutch language. But then Dutch is a pretty difficult language to learn. Thanks for the feedback.

[@SD-ko4tz]

As a Dutchie I see that the majority of people living in Amsterdam are not Dutch. To me it has little to do with Dutch culture anymore

[@objectively50]

Tell me...what is dutch culture?

[@KOUWE_ARIE_020]

​​@@objectively50 habbits ,dutch language ,food ,traditions ,partydays ,hospitality ,christianity, laws,free minds

[@objectively50]

@KOUWE_ARIE_020 From the beginning, the Netherlands (especially Amsterdam) have been heavily influenced by so-called foreigners. Roman's, Celtics, Asians, and africans, to name a few. We should celebrate diversity instead of complaining (also typical dutch behavior).

[@KOUWE_ARIE_020]

@@objectively50 i am dutch ,and proud of it ,i got friends from everywhere ,But holland stays holland ,the same as every other country should be proud of there herritage

[@KOUWE_ARIE_020]

@@objectively50 we should give everything away or something ?????

[@Cees1984]

Hear what you’re saying , but Amsterdam is not really comparable with the rest of NL. I live in the south between : Rotterdam,Breda,Antwerp and we appreciate other cultures more.

[@yoshidakezi]

Not in Roosendaal 😅

[@rfmvoers]

I also roll my eyes at 50cent Tikkies, but perhaps it's because I'm from Limburg.

[@RogierYou]

🤫 laot de Nederlanders neet wete dat ‘t leve hei väöl beter is. We höbbe hei al te väöl...

[@pwally]

I'm a Dutchman living abroad, and I approve of this message! 👌😂

[@303qwertyuiop303]

Jullie helemaal gelijk over de Nederlandse cultuur! En zoals de Nederlanders vaak zeggen: "als het je niet bevalt dan rot je maar op!" ... En oprotten is precies wat ik zelf ook gedaan heb, als Nederlander ;-) Het bevalt me veel beter in Zuid-europa (Ik moet wel zeggen dat Amsterdam een stuk erger is dan de rest van Nederland)

[@harenterberge2632]

I think switching to English is just impatience. The communication is more efficient when we both speak English. Time is money!!

[@ColmCoffey]

Please.. You’re joking 😂

[@toca_mary8668]

The culture is different everywhere but hey you don’t like it you go where you do like it.

[@Eoin-Boreara]

I’m Dutch and I can tell you she’s very accurate

[@basbouwman5139]

As a Nederlander: the time I get a tikkie for anything under 5 euro that will be the last time ever to see that person. And I never have send a Tikkie for under 10 euro.

[@bertramvanhouten9916]

As a 100% Dutchie, I actually find this video very accurate!

[@Dr_Panne_Koek.]

As a Dutchman I can say, they are not wrong.

[@blrich3316]

I am Chinese - Dutch, I really need to laugh. All things you were saying is so recognizable 😄

[@dinah1318]

I am Dutch myself, and I struggle with a lot of the things they mention. Especially the categorization. If people don't know you, or classify you as "different" in any way it is extremely difficult to make connections. Trying to connect spontaneously is frowned upon. People are expected to always be busy. So how to figure out if people actually like you? Regardless of Dutch 'bluntness' people will rarely reject you outright: they will just never call back, act extremely 'busy' with their agendas, and leave you to somehow guess their meaning. Yes, there are local differences - a person from Zuid-Brabant likely has a different idea of hospitality than someone from Amsterdam - but you are not more likely to make community in a village than in a town: when my parents moved from the Randstad to a village in the east, they were still treated as strangers by most people after 15 years of living here. There are things I like about being Dutch, but I also feel quite jaded about it all.

[@TheMovementHub]

Wow. This is a deep comment that I very much recognize and appreciate.

[@janvanspeyck3343]

To clarify, Tikkies are used for large amounts e.g. when one person clears a group tab, buys plane tickets, etc. And yes we hate unannounced visits, because we feel like we have to prepare for this in advance.

[@bordasdan954]

More time for? Oh, that cofee?😅

[@jllerk]

Very interesting to see other peoples opinion thanks for sharing!

[@definitelyzeblackcat743]

Not being filtered is about as Dutch as it gets. As I would call it, 'blunt honesty.' It can hurt some feelings, but in the long run, you know exactly a person's worth by their honesty. However... I think their excuse for not learning the language or not integrating is just weak and pointing fingers at others. We literally have free organizations you can sign up to as a foreigner to help learn Dutch. To be able to get around in the Netherlands. etc etc... saying it's our fault because we're being accommodating? That, to us, kinda feels like trash talking behind our backs... when all it took was for them to tell the person; Hey, mind talking in Dutch? I'm trying to learn the language. Yes, it really is that simple. Saying it's our fault is just pointing fingers and lazy excuses. And it's clear that left lady has no intentions of integrating. 'Why? The language is ugly' - This honestly feels like a slap in the face for our generosity we grant her. To the right lady? Keep it up. But also, put in a lil effort and just ask us to continue talking Dutch if you're serious about it.

[@TheMovementHub]

Thank you for your thought out answer. A contrast to some of the "if you don't like it, then get then get out of here" answers. I want to add however, that it is often not that easy for foreigners to practice their Dutch outside of language schools. I can only speak for Amsterdam here, and this can be very different in smaller places. But I've already heard from several people (under comments and in real conversations) that they purposely respond in English, to give foreigners a feeling that they are not included and will never be part of the society. Oftentimes foreigners feel the underlying intention, especially as it happens regularly. So it is not always being accommodating. And I know that this is of course not the case with every Dutch person. But it can be very discouraging, and exhausting to constantly explain to people that you want to speak in Dutch with them. If it happens with many little interaction like going to a shop, etc. Already starting the conversation in Dutch should, in theory, be enough. I've done interviews in Berlin, Amsterdam, and Prague so far, and this phenomenon seems to be unique to Amsterdam (so far). For example in Prague (also because they are less used to foreigners and expats living there and trying to learn their language) and also Berlin, people are very appreciative when they see that someone is trying. While in Amsterdam, like the lady said, you get the feeling that you are part of the society once you speak Dutch perfectly and accent-free. The latter will never be achievable if you moved here during adulthood, especially if you come from a non-nordic country.

[@Claudiettasummer76]

@@TheMovementHub love your reply :)

[@S.C.976]

Did Dutch people actually tell you that they responded in English to exclude you? Or is this just an assumption because it happens that often? Most Dutch people I know will switch to English to be accomodating and making it more easy to connect in a language you speak better. Perhaps not making assumptions that they do it to exclude you will help you to open your mind and connect more easily. But when living in any country, I think it is mandatory to become fluent in the language as soon as possible no matter how ugly or difficult it sounds. Need more practicing before you are fluent? Hire a tutor or exchange with someone who wants to learn Italian. Otherwise you miss out on a deeper understanding of the culture. Without appreciation of the culture I don't think it is possible to make friends (in any country really). As for the spontaneous going for drinks and going to a restaurant: I agree that that is much easier to do in Italy than here. But the prices you have to pay for it are different too. I am not saying this out of a sense of capitalism, but living expenses are just so ridiculously high that most people are on tight budgets to be able to have a roof over their heads. Can't blame anyone for not wanting to get into financial trouble. A regrettable situation, most people would go to restaurants and cafes more often if only they could afford it, and then you would find them more spontaneous too. And a tikkie for 50 cents? There are really only a few people who do that, you might have been in the wrong crowd. P.S. you might want to join a "vereniging" where you find more of a sense of community. Sports, playing chess or board games, hiking, gardening, cooking,... there is bound to be something to your liking. They typically take some work integrating into but once you are in, people look out for each other when they get to know each other better.

[@mardhemabreu9557]

I listen to the same story every time from immigrants, it may not be the Dutch, but it sure is the Amsterdam culture

[@Matriarch456]

if you know that people are enjoying dinner at 6... why call them at that time.. they have no time to chat cuz their food is getting cold.. if you tell a Dutchie I want to learn the language please speak Dutch they will and most likely bluntly correct your pronunciations and grammar mistakes.. [how else are you gonna learn ;)] but it's true that we switch to another language really fast and it's not helping to learn the Dutch language .But we mostly do it to make you feel more comfortable in the conversation. but if I were to live in Italy and not be fluent in it after 25 years what would Italians say about me...

[@chrisdeschepper7038]

Except they wouldn't speak English to you , because many only speak Italian

[@PainInTheS]

​@chrisdeschepper7038 Exactly. Especially those from Napels....considered extra special stupid and scum by Italians themselves, as pointed out to me by my 2 Italian co-workers. They both wanted me to talk to those before they found out they were Italian and had to deal with them. And I don't have time learning you Dutch, there are more people than you....NEXT!!!! Had a customer just yesterday, I was talking to different people at the same time.....in Dutch, German, English. This customer asked what languages I spoke and I said Dutch, English easily, German, can manage a bit in French and then I can curse you and talk (dirty) to the ladies in some 4 other languages Arabic/Moroccan/Surinam/Spanish....he was a bit amazed by what he saw. 🤣

[@akkiekippekakkie7157]

As a Dutch person I totally understand there struggles with our culture😂 I’m as Dutch as it gets and I hate the “planning live” part what they talked about. I love spontaneous in live.

[@Peerke_Donders]

as Amsterdam Dutch citizen, who lived in Italy for some years, I concur with these ladies .. insightful :)

[@ronaldderooij1774]

It makes me wonder why they stayed for 23 years.... I sense they are homesick. Nothing wrong with that, but I would expect an Italian to follow their hart.

[@E.L.D-66]

Yes... and rush home to the family, maybe they became too dutch

[@ShaifBasier]

Thank you for this great interview, creating safety for people to express themselves helps with providing opportunities to mine further mutual understanding. A very “human” interview. You know what someone says about others also says a quite a loy about the person and their own culture. Italians, Dutch, alle europeans can learn so much from eachother if we create constructive formats like this one. I can see both sides of what these gorgeous ladies are expressing as someone living in the Netherlands born in south-american Suriname. I see fully what you ladies are saying, yet I kindly ask to probe for mutual understanding. Surely like any other culture, Dutch can always improve in the area of true love and compassion. After enhancing en enriching my experience with the Dutch I actually fell in love with Dutch culture, I feel very Dutch and cosmopolitan. Our true identities are beyond the places where we are born and names en genders we have grown to learn about. The Netherlands is a place where open selfreflection and posts like this are possible and although many people do not agree, at least we can agree to disagree well in the Netherlands en feel reasonably fair amounts of freedom to express oneself. Unfortunately … there are quite some challenges that the Dutch are facing, similar to Italians etc. Are we not all so much like … typical humans?

[@annetmartens422]

I'm Dutch and understand what you're saying, but not everyone is like that. I call my mother almost every day and I also have a lot of contact with my children. People continue to eat here on birthdays or when they visit .I'm more of a family person than a friendship person. I have friends, but since I got sick I haven't had much contact. It opens your eyes. Happy with my family. That bit of fuss who is paying is not from my era, with us it's just a bit of back and forth hassle. No tikkie🤣then I pay then you and it doesn't have to be evenly. I like to give when I can

[@MarilynMayaMendoza]

I love these ladies! They are very honest. However, I wonder if I is an American Puerto Rican would be able to make friends in Italy because of the close Italian friend groups. Aloha from Hawaii.

[@evie8143]

Ze vindt het hier echt leuk :) Maar deze dames zijn al echte Amsterdammers.

[@rbaan92]

I'm a Dutch guy, and a lot of these things are a cultural difference between west and east of the country, just like Italy has a cultural difference between north and south of the country

[@rtwpaddyftw5287]

as a native dutch I can say that dutch directness is a facade. Just like the lady told about boxes, when one is not acting like the rest(We have a saying; "kop boven het maaiveld uitsteken" means basicly "act different, be alternative"), then they gossip about you, bully you and whatnot.

[@josje2334]

Amsterdam staat los van Nederland. Ik heb er jarenlang gewoond. Vroeger, in de jaren 80 was het nog een leuke, creatieve vrije stad, dat is allang niet meer zo....teveel expats en juppen, dus hoe kun je dan oordelen over de Nederlandse cultuur?

[@gregorjcocco]

Beste @josje2334 , Uw commentaar heeft me in een wervelwind van reflecties geworpen, als een Van Gogh-schilderij dat tot leven komt voor onze ogen. Uw geliefde Amsterdam van de jaren '80 is een beetje zoals die kindervriendin die je na decennia weer ontmoet: je herkent haar, natuurlijk, maar ze is niet meer dezelfde. U ziet, Amsterdam heeft altijd een dubbele ziel gehad: aan de ene kant de vrije, creatieve en enigszins anarchistische stad die u met genegenheid herinnert; aan de andere kant het financiële en commerciële centrum dat mensen van over de hele wereld aantrok (en nog steeds aantrekt). In de afgelopen decennia lijkt het erop dat deze tweede ziel de overhand heeft gekregen. Statistieken vertellen ons dat 36% van de bevolking van Amsterdam buitenlandse roots heeft, met Italianen, Britten en Amerikanen bovenaan de lijst van nieuwkomers. Deze instroom van "expats" heeft zeker het gezicht van de stad veranderd, met nieuwe energieën maar ook nieuwe spanningen. Het Amsterdam dat u zich herinnert, met zijn blakke kunstenaars en rokerige cafés, is getransformeerd in een soort themapark voor toeristen en internationale professionals. Geld is de prioriteit boven alles. Economische winst als dogma van bestaan. En zo zijn de oude arbeiderswijken gegentrificeerd, zijn de huizenprijzen door het dak gegaan, en lijkt die spontaniteit die u zich herinnert te zijn verdund in een zee van latte geserveerd in papieren bekers. Maar wees voorzichtig om niet in de valkuil van nostalgie te trappen. Amsterdam investeert nog steeds zwaar in zijn culturele infrastructuur. Meer dan 25 instellingen zijn in de afgelopen twee decennia gebouwd, herbouwd of gerenoveerd. De stad besteedt jaarlijks een budget van 136 miljoen euro aan kunst en cultuur. Dat is niet onbelangrijk, geloof me. Het probleem is misschien dat dit "nieuwe" Amsterdam een beetje van die menselijkheid en spontaniteit lijkt te hebben verloren die het uniek maakten. De Italiaanse meisjes die u noemt hebben niet helemaal ongelijk: er is een zekere kilheid, een gebrek aan empathie dat schokkend kan zijn voor degenen die uit het Middellandse Zeegebied komen. Maar laten we niet vergeten dat Amsterdam altijd een stad van contrasten is geweest. Zelfs in de 17e eeuw, haar "Gouden Eeuw", was het een plek waar ongebreidelde rijkdom samenleefde met extreme armoede, vrijheid van gedachte en rigide calvinisme. Misschien is wat we vandaag zien gewoon de laatste incarnatie van deze dualiteit. De Nederlandse cultuur, mijn beste, kan niet alleen beoordeeld worden door naar Amsterdam te kijken. Dat zou hetzelfde zijn als Italië te beoordelen op basis van alleen Milaan. De Nederlanders zijn pragmatisch, direct, soms zelfs te veel. Misschien is hun "menselijke kant" gewoon verborgen onder lagen van efficiëntie en terughoudendheid. Mijn advies? Laat uw herinneringen aan het verleden u niet beletten om het heden te waarderen. Amsterdam verandert, dat zeker, maar het blijft een levendige stad in constante evolutie. En wie weet, misschien zullen we over enkele jaren verlangen naar dit Amsterdam dat vandaag zo koud en onpersoonlijk lijkt. Groetjes, G.