Two Modern Men React to 12 Angry Men (1957) First Time Watching Reaction/Review

[@TheDietrichDaniels]

The kid didn’t go to the movies to WATCH a movie, he went just to sit in a safe place away from his father.

[@papalaz4444244]

and it was 3am and accused of murder - it's quite sad watching some modern people watching this and they are brought up believing they are always right

[@revengance4149]

@@papalaz4444244 they watched the movie for the first time. how are they supposed to pick up on all of these things the first time around?

[@sparky6086]

Movie tickets were inexpensive back then, & people could hang out in the theatre all day on one ticket. People sometimes went, just because the theatre had air conditioning. Few houses or apartments had air conditioning back then. They were hot in the Summer & drafty in the Winter. Sometimes, theatres were merely a refuge from the weather & prople barely paid any mind to the film. Kind of like people hanging out in the mall even if they weren't shopping, in later decades. Also, if the kid spoke English poorly, it may have been his second language which would make it less likely, that he would be able to make a mental note of a film's title or the names of it's actors.

[@Argumemnon]

@@revengance4149 Well maybe if they didn't spend the whole movie talking, they'd pick up on more stuff -- the bane of all reactors.

[@revengance4149]

@@Argumemnon why are you watching reaction videos then? that doesn't make any sense.

[@bobbuethe1477]

It always seemed to me that the last scene was there to jar the viewers into realising that they just watched an entire movie without knowing any of the characters' names.

[@annieromo74]

So true! The acting in this movie, and the wonderful story, truly draw you in and doesn't let go until the end. One of my favorites, too.

[@julien.4617]

The one workman type told the foreman his name is August something (couldn't catch his last name).

[@MisterSandmanAU]

​​@@julien.4617Juror 6?

[@canalesworks1247]

That last little scene is one of the few flaws in the film. I would have rather seen what really happend to the father. My guess is that the boy actually did kill his father but it was self defense.

[@help4343]

@@canalesworks1247 The last scene is not a flaw, and seeing what really happened like that would go against the point of the film.

[@tracythaemar1864]

You failed to remember that this young man’s father spent time in prison. The father wasn’t the most upstanding sort of guy. I’m sure he had his enemies, and maybe he crossed someone that his son didn’t even know about.

[@Liesmith424]

The thing about the kid not being able to name any movies is that there's a *lot* of gray area in that description. For example, the man in the spectacles couldn't get the name of the second feature correct. He got it *partly* correct--and a cop interrogating him could easily report that as "he couldn't name the movie".

[@jhornacek]

And that juror wasn't under "severe emotional distress".

[@practicaldreamyr]

I also imagine that the kid probably didn't go there just to watch a movie - he'd just had an upsetting argument with his father and needed a safe place to go that wasn't "home". It's likely he didn't have most (if any) of his attention focused on the film itself. That, combined with the fact that he was being questioned by hostile detectives in a room adjoining his father's mutilated body, and it's easy to understand why his answers might have been so scrambled.

[@Liesmith424]

@@practicaldreamyr A very good point also.

[@jhornacek]

@@practicaldreamyr I never thought about his emotional state after the argument with his father when he went to the movies. That's a good point. He was probably sitting through the entire movie replaying the argument he just had (and being slapped by his father) over and over in his head.

[@wallyllama2926]

You also have to consider that back then you didn’t just get a movie. You got the news, you got mini movies almost like cartoon strips. Going to the movies back then was an event.

[@Mikey_Sea]

I think at the end, the old guy just admired Davis and was curious to know his name. Old guy was the first to switch his vote and go out on a limb. I also love the moment that Davis helped the angry guy with his coat. That was a classy gesture.

[@nicholasschroeder3678]

I don't think so. He's lonely and insignificant, just like the old man he "knows better than anyone of you." This was a great moment for him that he really wants to hold on to. But it also shows that juries are convened for one purpose only--the relationships end with the verdict and everyone goes back to their lives.

[@hayleyferguson3346]

The significance is that those 2 men were initially the only jurors who said not guilty, thus changing the course of direction and ultimately saving the boy's life. Without the old man's support, Davis would have lost out.

[@AliasSchmalias]

@@nicholasschroeder3678 Just because he's happy to meet him doesn't mean he's lonely, those are two completely different things. And the fact that he knows the old man so well could be because he has had some of the same experiences, but that doesn't mean that it's still the case. These are just assumptions on your part.

[@ShawnRavenfire]

One of the interesting things that most people don't notice on first viewing is that even though we don't get any of the names of the jurors (except the two at the end), but we do gradually get their occupations, and that gives a clue as to how they look at the case. The architect deconstructs the evidence piece by piece, and thinks to look at a floorplan of the apartment and the length of the el-train. The watchmaker is keeping detailed notes on what time everything happened. The high school football coach is keeping everyone else in line and organized.

[@nicholasschroeder3678]

Right! And the broker analyzes people like stock quotes--he misses the human element. The old man relies on his long experience and emotional intelligence. The two salesmen are shallow and don't like to think. It's interesting to me that the two hard-assed cynics both run their own businesses. It's one element of the film I don't like It seems an unfair bias that small businessmen are stupid and heartless.

[@emilyelizabethbuchanan998]

​@@nicholasschroeder3678 All their professions affect them. It's not about small businesses, but the fact they run any kind of businesses/operate at managerial capacity at all in a tough city like new york. They've likely had to fight all their lives to get ahead and its hardened them. Also #3 has that bad relationship with his son he's projecting. #5 we never learn his profession in the film (they left it out) but in the original stage play it is mentioned that not only is he a former slum kid, he is also a nurse/orderly at a local hospital in same slummy area he grew up in, so naturally he's biased against anyone bigoted towards slum kids. And #6 is a house painter; in that line of work, you have to take pride in your work and respect not only the surface you work on but the client's wishes as well to do as good a job as possible, and that probably is why he's irritated when people don't give things or other people dignity/respect they deserve. #12 draws ads for clients, spending all his time trying to please bosses/clients/people and charm them into buying other people's products based off prompts the product's company gives him. He's likely never been confronted with a really serious situation where he has to make decisions on his own unaided by prompts, so naturally he'd go with the crowd, it would be the easiest way out. #2 is a Banker, which in the 50s would mean working in a very careful, controlled environment where people speak softly, much like a library. He's a smart and analytical man but he's not used to speaking up, so it takes him a little time to get good and going and show his stuff. Where he works, raising one's voice would likely elicit stares and shushes. #7 Doesn't need to tell us he's a salesman with the jokester technique of selling because his whole personality screams it. So all their professions matter to the script, and idk why they left #5's out of the film version.

[@nicholasschroeder3678]

@@emilyelizabethbuchanan998 Think you nailed 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 10, and 12. Really excellent analysis. I'll add a couple more speculations. 1 is an ASSISTANT head coach, and I think he's insecure about his projection of authority. He has a bit of a meltdown when he feels his authority has been flouted, he spends a lot of the remainder of the film pouting about it. 11 has probably been through quite a bit, coming from a no doubt totalitarian country, so he takes the proceeding particularly seriously and is particularly incensed at those who don't. He also brings his precise habits as a warchmaker to his note-taking and deconstructing the timing of events. 4 to me is the most interesting and ambiguous character, and I believe he's a bit of a stand-in for the intelligent, bougie viewer who probably identifies with him. He comes across as imminently objective and fair, and shows contempt for 4 and 10, but he's also insufferably smug and devoid of empathy. He carries unconscious biases that he's not aware of: he doesn't question police procedure, the evidence presented by the prosecution, or the motivations of witnesses because in his world these have always been objective sources of truth--his privilege has insulated him from the harsher realities that the indigent and minorities face routinely. His prima facie acceptance of all the "facts," which he evaluates like so many numbers, is a result of both naivete and a bit of willful blindness to the world around him (it's a theme Lumet addresses more explicitly in The Pawnbroker). His orderly world of stocks and bridge games suits him just fine, and with his high income and high intelligence he pretty much despises the world of slums and all their problems. In his worldview, it's natural that this wild boy did it: he never questions any of the evidence or the motivations behind them because they fit into his idea of how things are. He isn't as ugly or hysterical about it as 10--he openly repudiates him--but I think unconsciously he shares similar views, ones he would deny, probably even to himself. He would never be openly hostile or unjust to a poor or minority person, that would be declasse, but I think he wouldn't object if "undesirables" were excluded from his neighborhood or country club. Basically, he's part of the power structure that serves him well; he believes it is objective and fair--because it has been for him--and his self-satisfaction and lack of human empathy prevent him seeing any other alternatives. So when HIS own blindness is exposed by the old man, he's mortified, not just because he missed such a crucial fact, but because he sees there is a deficiency in himself. I think he sees that he was set against the boy by more than just the facts.

[@markc.7984]

This is THE movie for being all in one room, and it is THE movie for having a huge cast of characters - 12 - and each one is distinct and well-developed.

[@allank8497]

tbf theres only like 10 of them that are well-developed

[@robertparker6280]

Another movie that nailed the one room for the entire movie is "Rope", a great Hitchcock film.

[@Ayekonyk]

12 Angry Men was remade for television in 1997. That is the version featuring Jack Lemmon

[@saucermcfly]

I wished so much I could get a message through during the viewing because it was mentioned several times that it wasn't remade and I knew it was. I love Jack Lemmon so I had to see it. I didn't love it as much as the Fonda version, but it's still fantastic.

[@richardpearce4988]

And a pre-Sopranos James Gandolfini!

[@deniseg812]

Was pretty good

[@deniseg812]

​@richardpearce4Tony Danza 988

[@richardowen2087]

Yes. And it was originally a made for TV Studio One play broadcast in 1954.

[@Windupchronic]

Re: the kid going to the movies, back then almost all movies were double features. You didn't necessarily go to the movies to see a _specific_ movie, you just went to the movies for something to do, or to get out of the heat, or out of the cold. There was usually an A-list movie with stars, and a second movie with B-list actors. Most theaters had one screen and those two movies were all you were going to get. So you didn't go to the theater and decide what you wanted to see, you just went to the movies, and whatever they were showing, that's what you got. It might not even be a new release. Movies would travel around the country and show in different towns at different times. A popular movie might stay in theaters for a good year and a half as it traveled around. A _really_ popular movie might stay in one town for a very long time, and the second feature would fluctuate.

[@tommytbone9778]

Windy, what small town did you grow up in during the 50s.... if a Bijou kept the same flic floppin thru their machine for a year, they certainly had stale popcorn & were sold to the Cinerama soon afterwards

[@CherylHughes-ts9jz]

And cartoons or newsreels in between 😊

[@PaulWinkle]

2 full movies back to back and he remembered nothing, he doesnt have a valid alibi. Further No8 Henry Fonda proved himself wrong by interrogating No4 that someone, even under pressure can remember 99% of things he saw even many days ago. The boy's alibi, well he remembered 0%. I can't believe they sold us No8's defeat as a victory in this movie.

[@CherylHughes-ts9jz]

@@PaulWinkle as a long term victim of domestic violence let me offer this; Whenever possible we escape the scene of the violence. When triggered we will often dissociate. He went to the movies just to escape his father He most likely paid no attention to the screen at all. ☮️

[@PaulWinkle]

@@CherylHughes-ts9jz No attention to the big screen and the loud audio. And the second thing was that nobody saw him there. Plus he lost his knife only hourse before the murder happened and someone else bought a similar looking knife (not a bat, a gun or anything else) yes someone bought a knife and a very similar looking one? Strecht after stretch after stretch and all this has to happen at the same time? Are we really talking about reasonable doubts and thoughts here?

[@toshibautoob]

In my top ten movies of all time. Also, amazingly, I was foreman of a jury that was somewhat like this case in that we started with a split jury and probably surprisingly to the defendant, found a young man not guilty. One of the most important experiences in my life.

[@ericjette2435]

I've never served on a jury myself, but I know someone who did . He said the defendant was a young guy and the jury knew that if they found him guilty his life would be over and they were very reluctant to do that without careful deliberations. He left the experience impressed with the process and how seriously the jury and everyone involved took their responsibilities.

[@Daneelro]

@@ericjette2435 The sad part about US juries is that statistically, such careful deliberation is significantly more likely to happen if the defendant is white and/or affluent than if not. So the Central Park Five were convicted by juries on the basis of extremely flimsy evidence while Elon Musk got acquitted for defrauding investors in spite of ample public evidence.

[@TallyDrake]

35:36 Huh?! What do you think they were doing in the jury room, if they were not evaluating the evidence presented in court? 🤔

[@illam9500]

Ok so the thing never brought up is why the kid didn't remember the movie. Here is why: he got punched in the head twice before going, went home only to get thrown down the stairs by detectives, and then gets interrogated by said detectives while his fathers body is in the next room. Id wager that the kid had a concussion and combine that with the emotional trauma as well and I don't think I'd remember either

[@crealkillr]

not to mention its what the cops SAID in the report. He could remember something half correct and the cops can still put "couldnt remember the movie". Its a half truth, but the cops can put it down on paper and no one is going to question it or even hear what he did answer.

[@julius-stark]

"I wasn't aware we were in enlightened time space" every contemporary time thinks they are the enlightened space time. The remake with Jack Lemmon is actually pretty good too.

[@dionysiacosmos]

Good, but mis-casted. Lemon and Scott are incredible actors but too old themselves at the time to be talking about another old man as if they weren't his peers.

[@mohammedashian8094]

@@dionysiacosmos that’s what I thought great actor just a bit too old

[@glennlesliedance]

I played Juror 4 (eye glasses) in a stage production last year. The play ends with the jurors leaving the jury room. The audience response was fantastic. It's a timeless character study in the USA.

[@CherylHughes-ts9jz]

What fun☮️

[@chutspe]

"I'm sick and tired of facts..." - Nothing has changed since 1957.

[@amazinggrace5692]

True.

[@PaulWinkle]

No8 for sure was sick and tired of facts, he wasnt even asking the bailiff for the eyewitness testimony. No8 was always very eager to prove sth, but he let out the most significant part, the eyewitness testimony, at least for a recheck to see if the testimony has parts in it which proves her good or bad eyesight

[@jazzmaan707]

The actors in this movie are great. In the 60-90, they were famous. I don't think you can get a room full of 12 great actors into one movie. Henry Fonda, and Lee J Cobb, who was the last man to change his vote, were award winning actors. Lee, I hated him from the beginning, which was his role, and felt very sorry for him, when he finally changed his vote. Yes, this movie is a Classic and studied for how it was made. Great review by you guys, by the way.

[@TTM9691]

In summary: great writing, great acting, great directing.

[@misterkite]

I wouldn't call it great writing. More like a masterclass in juror misconduct. Juror #8 visits the crime scene, introduces new evidence, and provides unsworn testimony.

[@TTM9691]

@@misterkite That's because you're an idiot and you wouldn't know what great writing is, even if it was pissing on you. The script holds the audience's attention, unflagging, in one room for the entire production. That's called good writing, thumbsucker, and it's why the script continues to be performed, it's why every reactor who does the movie loves it. Obviously you're one of those couch potatoes who confuses movies and reality and don't know the definition of dramatic license. But what do you expect from someone who picks one of the weakest Beatle compositions writing-wise for your screen-name? Great production, but I don' t know who has the bigger burn on it, Lou Reed who called it the worst song he'd ever heard or John Lennon himself who called it garbage, lol.

[@Daneelro]

@@misterkite In other words, a day like any other in US juries.

[@legendaccount3247]

@@misterkite Damn it's almost like it's a movie where you can suspend your disbelief and enjoy the well-written drama

[@misterkite]

@@legendaccount3247 It's almost like movies still need to make logical sense and exist in the world they create.

[@drakethedragon3164]

I dont find it suspicious that he doesn't remember the movies he saw. I dont remember things well AT ALL under pressure. And if i were being questioned by police with my dead father in the next room I could see myself easily not remembering details even if I weren't a suspect.

[@jnagarya519]

During the 1950s and into the 1960s, there were two movies, a cartoon, and newsreels. And we were allowed to sit through them a second time for free.

[@Tylerson]

Considering movies back then had their theater run and then basically went away "forever", that makes sense.

[@jnagarya519]

@@Tylerson That had nothing to do with it. Theaters weren't necessarily filled, so allowing those who bought tickets to sit through a second showing was simply the norm. The point I'm making is that there were two movies, a cartoon, and newsreels. And that we were allowed to sit through twice.

[@CherylHughes-ts9jz]

When I was a kid it was 25 cents for two movies and cartoons! Plus you could stay all day if you wanted ☮️

[@jnagarya519]

@@CherylHughes-ts9jz Same here! But I'm still not tall enough to be over 18.

[@CherylHughes-ts9jz]

@@jnagarya519 😉👍

[@YoureMrLebowski]

4:40 there was a remake sean. toni danzi was in it. you didn't miss anything. 🙂

[@zvimur]

They tried to modernize it with some diversity, also having African American as the bigot. Kind of shot im the foot having the one Latin actor playing a Central European immigrant.

[@innercircle341]

I'm an old dude and I don't watch much TV, certainly not shows with multiple seasons. But I love movies and seeing smart people comment on them. So I've subbed in anticipation of future reactions. I can throw loads of ideas at you if you want themes, genres, directors and so on. I think that would be cool rather than randomly watching the odd film. Good stuff guys. Rare to find intelligent discussion so much appreciated

[@catch-uppackets2664]

Thank you so much! Very glad you enjoyed it

[@v.downes9608]

The actors in this film are top notch, it helps having the best actors reading the best script. Great movie.

[@christianosminroden7878]

There actually is a remake of this from 1997, and that‘s the one starring Jack Lemon (among other big names such as Edward James Olmos, Armin Müller-Stahl and James Gandolfini).

[@topomusicale5580]

Deliberating a guilty person to be not guilty isn't a "flaw in the system". The system was built on the premise that it is better to let 100 guilty people go free than convict an innocent person. Also, this was not an example of jury nullification. It is the job of the jury to consider the veracity of the witnesses, and give their testimony the appropriate weight. In this case they discounted the accuracy of both witnesses testimony. I would agree this all made it sound like actually ineffective council. The thing to remember is juries are strange beasts which can be totally unpredictable.

[@CoastalNomad]

Sadly his "Ineffective Council" was a Court Appointed Attorney....... There was a couple points that the reactors talked over......

[@PE4Doers]

I am older (by a wide margin) than either of you, however I honestly need to ask a couple of questions about that discussion you two had at min 41:00 during the prologue of this video. Having lived as an adult in three generations (so far), I have learned that it is very valuable to have 'Open' discussions about where society has come from and where it might be going. My questions: Do you really (deep down I mean) believe its wrong to foster honest discussions on the things that have separated us so much in this current generation? I have found that exposing issues to 'the light of day' is the ideal way to solve serious problems and move forward. Doesn't a movie like this at least illustrate that a hypothesis such as that is possible? By the way - I am the same race as that boy who was on-trial in this movie/play (I do believe it was originally written to be a play). I also grew up in Bed-Stuy Brooklyn in the 70's - an honest to God slum. I committed some small property crimes, but never harmed anyone. I was also mugged twice and lived through three friends of mine (including a young woman), murdered by the violent forces of that time and location. I eventually earned my Bachelors Degree, two Masters Degrees and a Professional Engineers license. Hopefully all that gives me some level of credibility for what I'm saying - but then again, maybe the forces of nonacceptance continue to be unbreakable in this World at this time. By the way, I thought your review was very good. Thank You both. 😊

[@amazinggrace5692]

The kid was at the movies to be in a safe place removed from his ever toxic environment. He likely didn’t watch the movie. He may have slept even. But he returned home to be confronted with the police who told him his father was dead and then threw him down a flight of stairs. If that isn’t disorienting and confusing and upsetting, then I don’t know what is. I’d be lucky to remember my own name.

[@DylansPen]

One of the best films ever made, a tour de force of actors all on game. The story is great and the direction is great.

[@kirkdarling4120]

There is a 90s version of this movie (there is also an earlier 50s television version). It's also an excellent production, with a bit more racial diversity (which put a twist on some of the racial nuances of this story, but neither the stereotype nor the anti-stereotype you'd expect). I believe George C. Scott actually delivered a stronger performance as the last juror than Lee J. Cobb does in this version. But I think the camerawork is superior in this version. All three versions are available on KZbin. The old man could speak authoritatively about how that old man might feel...because he was an old man like that. Back in those days, people often just went to see movies, not a particular movie. "It's Thursday night, let's go to the movies." So, it's not that unusual to have forgotten a movie that was forgettable that night. To me, the meaning of the name exchange was that the names were not significant. They were just ordinary people, nobody notable, no celebrities...ordinary people with a man's life in their hands. Back in the 80s, I served on a federal jury that was very much like this one: Only one person thought the defendant thought was not guilty at the beginning (wasn't me). It was a half-day trial, but we deliberated for four full days before everyone was willing to vote not-guilty. I was the foreman, and I had tried to get the trial declared 'hung," but the judge said, "No, you go back in there and deliver a verdict." The prosecutor was absolutely floored to hear our verdict. She thought she had it in the bag. And, yes, the final question was not that we were certain he was innocent, but finally we could not be certain he was guilty. I've also sat on a military court-martial jury, and in that case, we thought the kid was guilty, but we also believed his leadership had railroaded him. That offended us, being part of the military leadership ourselves: "It didn't need to come to this. His supervisor and first sergeant were bastards." Military court-martial panels are able to select lesser charges, so we found him guilty on the least possible charge. Appeals don't usually re-examine the evidence of the earlier trial "just because." Appeals are based on judicial error...something was wrong about how the trial was conducted, and evidence would be re-examined if it can be claimed that the original trail mishandled the evidence. A 2022 movie, The Outfit, is a very good tense gangster movie that takes place largely in one room (only two rooms total), with only five main speaking roles.

[@mohammedashian8094]

I respectfully disagree on George c Scott with all due respect to him even though I think he’s the only actor that can do juror 3 justice aside from lee j cobb he was way too old for the role so his performance kinda came across as but over the top for me. There’s no beating lee j cobb in this role

[@laertesindeed]

@kirkdarling I saw the version you mean...... with Jack Lemon, Tony Danza, James Gandolfini, Edward James Olmos, Ossie Davis and others. I have to be honest, the racial 'diversity' you mention was totally irrelevant and useless to me. It didn't add anything to the writing at all. And unfortunately it did cause exactly what these two reviewers warned about....... there was specifically an "anti stereotype" for the Mykelti Williamson character who played the bigot role. They had to finnagle a way for him to act out all the expectations from a Nation of Islam black racist conspiracy nut.......but then threw out a line of the lowly union worker asking if he was a Nation of Islam member and him saying "no....we don't exactly see eye to eye". It would make anybody watching roll their eyes and see exactly what the replacement writers were trying to hide. Whereas in the original 1950s version the role of the bigot has absolutely nothing to do with the race of the bigot character...that was very likely similar or indistinguishable from the rest of the jurors; namely.....which makes it so the bigotry doesn't come from his race at all.

[@kirkdarling4120]

@@laertesindeed I didn't characterize the diversity as being good or bad in its effect on the story. Being a 90s production, the diversity had to be there, but also very clearly it would have dramatically changed the story unless handled deftly. You said that it was rendered totally irrelevant...and _that is my point." Being a 90s production, it _had_ to be diverse, but they also had to handle it so that diversity became irrelevant to the story, or else it would have changed the story.

[@laertesindeed]

@@kirkdarling4120 I totally and absolutely and objectively reject your claim that anything filmed in the 90s "had to be diverse" ....that is flat out not true.

[@kirkdarling4120]

@@laertesindeed For the sake of the story, the defendant had to be a minority. In the nineties, any defense lawyer (even a poor one) would have insisted on and gotten a diverse jury...that had already been ruled by the Supreme Court. It would not have been believable for there to have been a jury only of white men for a minority defendant in the 90s. They were already stretching credibility limiting it to men.

[@jamesalexander5623]

"Them" in NYC at that time were Puerto Ricans ( Think West Side Story ).

[@carolpurcell4666]

Jack Lemmon was in the stage play, I believe.

[@zeezee9670]

@27:13 _Underhanded._ This means the Switchblade the police found (with no finger prints) & assumed to be the murder weapon, *is very unlikely to be the murder weapon because of the clear downward angle of the actual wound on the victim.*

[@laurab68707]

A script and acting at its best. One of the greatest movies ever. Everyone should see this movie. There are many great movies from that era in black and white. You should watch "Casablanca" with Humphrey Bogart. Also a great movie.

[@jakubfabisiak9810]

If we're going black and white, then Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, Naked City, and Touch of Evil are also a must.

[@IsaacLikesGames]

@@jakubfabisiak9810 I would also add Psycho, To Kill A Mockingbird, Citizen Kane, and Night of the Living Dead to that list

[@martensjd]

Back then eyeglasses would have been glass, not plastic. And thus almost certainly considerably heavier than what we're used to. So do people today get those marks or rob the tops of their noses because of the weight of their glasses? Sure, but not like when glasses were glass.

[@gemstonegynoid7475]

All my prescription eyeglasses these days are plastic framed that have a continuous bar across the nose. But some of my first glasses had these pointed supports onto the nose. And as the soft pads wear away they annoyingly dug into my nose. So someone could still have nose marks depending on construction today

[@glenxoseph]

19:42 the whole commentary here made you miss an important deduction...

[@pleutron]

in the beginning you said that you wondered why there wasn't a mondern version... there is, in the 90's, with Jack Lemon and Tony Danza.

[@TheInfo45]

Absolutely classic. The tv remake didn't have the same impact even though the dialogue was the same.

[@juanv8758]

Actually you're incorrect, this movie was remade in 1997. Jack Lemmon played Henry Fonda's role. While the remake was good, it doesn't hold a candle to the original.

[@jasontaverner391]

You have to be over 60 to remember 'Double Feature' movies. They came to an end around the mid 1970s. The first movie was usually a "B" movie.

[@lorimancuso8487]

There are a few movies you can watch over and over again and never get tired of this is one of them it is a study in human behavior in a subtle and strippeddown way

[@PaulWinkle]

I onced loved the movie, now I hate it, cause it is a masterpiece of manipulation. The boy is guilty, pretty sure beyond reasonable doubts

[@wildsarsaparilla]

Years ago when I was 20, I sat on a jury. It wasn't murder; it was reckless endangerment. The responsibility the court puts on you dealing with 11 other random total strangers wasn't that dramatic, but it taught me a great deal.

[@mildredpierce4506]

Back then, theaters had only one screen but they would show two movies.That's why Henry Fonda asked E G Marshal what was the second feature. There was always a second feature.

[@redcaddiedaddie]

Not to mention... a newsreel, a cartoon, & an advertisement for the snacks available in the lobby... also, people would dress to go out; suits & dresses, often going to the theater b/c it might be one of the few commercial places in town that would be air-conditioned, often a rarity for residences in those times! I was born in 1948, & didn't live in an air-conditioned home until 1977!

[@aresee8208]

"It's gonna be an adjustment to get into a movie from such a different time." Why? Really, why? I never had a problem and I don't think anyone from my youth had a hard time adjusting to movies from before our time. Why is it so hard now? What is different now?

[@Dej24601]

Some older black & white films (made in the US) which are stunning examples of exquisite cinematography and will provide powerful experiences for viewers are: The Third Man (1949); The Letter (1940); Sunset Boulevard (1950); The Night of The Hunter (1955). Other impressive cinematography in black & white films include: The Big Combo (1955); Psycho (1960); Nightmare Alley (1947); Double Indemnity (1944); The Asphalt Jungle (1950); Casablanca (1942); Sunrise-A Song of 2 Humans (a silent film!! with a few bits of sound effects and music). There are dozens more of exceptional black & white films, but these help showcase that b/w films can look as spectacular as color ones.

[@omgbygollywow]

I served on a jury (criminal case) a few years ago and this movie is so accurate in depicting how everyone has their own prejudices, opinions, shortcoming and perspectives. The case I was in was for a young man accused of selling drugs. The sentencing was for 10 years if the defendant was found guilty. Ten years is a long time, but I was surprised how easily the other jurors quickly and nonchalantly sent him down with a guilty verdict. For a long time, I was the lone person to vote "non-guilty" and felt the weight of the world on my shoulders.

[@petem.3719]

You'll never see a remake because you'll never have that much acting talent all in the same room again. These guys almost all ended up being household names in the following decades, most having had their own successful tv series as well.

[@jonbruton3557]

"Rope" Alfred Hitchcock movie with James Stewart. Not only one room but one continues nonstop take. [ to go to new real of film the camera would briefly be blocked by a guys back or so then the scene continued.] ,,I disagree. I believe they almost proved he was not guilty. [probably a robbery gone bad] I believe the audience is supposed to be relieved that by one man's initial effort an innocent man who was almost found guilty had his life saved by that good man.

[@viviennerose6858]

They don't need to know each other's names - they're not there to be friends. They could influence each other if too friendly?

[@frankberger3507]

The kid was guilty. Somebody had to stab down because that's how he was killed, regardless of how switchblades are typically used. He was killed with an unusual knife, which the kid had just bought. What are the odds someone else with that type of knife killed the father? What was the motive for the killer? Not robbery, they were poor. The kid can't remember anything about the movie, nothing and nobody saw him? The juror went back days, remembered many things, forgot the exact title of the second feature. Does nothing to suggest that someone who went to a movie a hour ago can remember absolutely nothing about it. Stress, shock wear off. It doesn't cause permanent amnesia.

[@justinalicea1590]

But the kid does know how to use a switchblade properly, meaning an amateur who thinks of it like any other knife would have done a downward strike. Possible odds, given how easily Juror #8 found one just 2 blocks away from the boy's house. A knife that he did show to his friends. A boy who didn't go there to watch the movies, he went to escape from his father. Movies that are much more complicated in presentation than our modern ones due to being cut in with the news and comic strip. And he does remember the movie afterwards, in court, rather than after being pushed down 2 flights of stairs and then interrogated in the room next to his father's corpse on the day he didn't go to the movies to watch them. Compared to Juror #4 who purposefully went to the movies and couldn't perfectly remember the title nor recall the starring actors in it.

[@Lina_unchained]

The point was that the man could remember few details about the movie but he wasn't under emotional stress so if he couldn't remember details when he wasn't under emotional stress then how would the boy remember as many or more details while being under stress. The boy wasn't there for the purpose of watching the movie he was there to get away from his violent father...to be anywhere but home. I'm surprised neither of you thought of that possibility.

[@galandirofrivendell4740]

This story was first presented as a made-for-television drama. When Henry Fonda wanted to make a motion picture version of the story, he ran into opposition from Hollywood, their argument being, who would pay to see something that was already presented free on TV? Fortunately, it proved to be a smart move. It remains a classic drama. It has also been fashioned into a stage play. (I was once in a community theater production of 12 Angry Men as Juror No. 8, the foreigner.) One thing that makes this story so successful is the fact that there is an acknowledgement that the young defendant's innocence isn't a given, that he could actually be guilty.

[@Madbandit77]

Isn't Juror #11 the foreigner? Juror #8 is Henry Fonda.

[@galandirofrivendell4740]

@@Madbandit77 You're right. Senior moment. Never was good with numbers.

[@txbaca4861]

You were in the play but you still miss the point of work...it's not about the kid COULD be guilty, it's about driving home the point that he's *innocent* until PROVEN guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The two are vastly different statements and the latter is the basis of the American justice system. THAT is why the film is successful.

[@rickardroach9075]

32:15 I think the point is a person who only needs glasses for reading wouldn't wear them long enough to make permanent dents.

[@jamesdrynan]

Sidney Lumet's first movie as director. He later made Dog Day Afternoon, The Verdict, Fail Safe, The Pawnbroker, Network and many more excellent films.

[@johannesvalterdivizzini1523]

I was born during that hot summer of 1957. What's amazing to me is how this brilliant film has held up so well ove time. "They" for NYC in 1957 would have been Puerto Ricans.

[@connieoliver7369]

This is an excellent movie. I've watched it several times. Great cast. There was a remake in 1997 good also. The defendant didn't remember about the movie. He went escape a brutal father. The police had tossed him down the stairs. So he didn't remember the movie then. This has also been a stage play

[@Dej24601]

-It was remade in 1997 as a tv movie (and that cast does include Jack Lemmon.) -The kid’s ethnicity is deliberately left vague which makes it more timeless, but as the setting is New York, and we get one quick shot of his face, he might be Puerto Rican, which would fit with a prejudice of the time. -The script was originally done as a tv teleplay 5 years earlier and the same writer did the screenplay. -Henry Fonda (tall guy in the white suit) was the producer and deferred his salary in order to be sure the film could get made. -This film is often used as a teaching tool for directorial purposes.

[@contacluj758]

There IS a newer version of the movie, from the 80's

[@tinatidmore3809]

The two men exchanging names is a statement on the unique situation in juries. People from vastly different backgrounds and personalities must come together and reveal themselves through the discussions. It's intimate analysis of the case but also of each other, revealing. It's profound. And it's among people who would likely not have much of a reason in their real life to go beyond exchanging names if they come to meet each other in another setting. But, without knowing each others' names, they are discussing their beliefs, prejudices, opinions about peoples, opinions about this political process, revealing how they think, etc. And, they are having to learn how to work together without having any bond with each other to help. And the exchanging names at the end puts into stark contrast how odd this situation is, that's it's so personal, by showing that we (and they) came to know so much about each other, yet they didn't even know each others' names. Of course, usually, names, at least first names, today, are exchanged in the jury room. But it's still odd to have such intimacy and revealing of oneself when you just meet people. And me, I would forget all the names right after I was told.

[@davidbellamy2612]

This began as a TV play and the very old man; the first to support Henry Fonda, took on the same role in the TV version.

[@rickardroach9075]

40:05 _12 Angry Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Intersex, Asexual and a plethora of other orientations and identities... plus a couple who identify as Men._

[@urangmyphone265]

Ok, Rickard.

[@GetMeThere1]

It has been "done again," in 1997. using the same title, and with famous actors.

[@TheTerryGene]

This was originally a live TV broadcast in 1954. The film version was released a couple of years later and was director Sidney Lumet’s (Network, Serpico, Dog Day Afternoon, The Verdict, Murder on the Orient Express) first film. Jack Lemmon and George C. Scott starred in a TV remake in the late 90’s. A Russian remake, “12”, was made in 2009. Incidentally, “12 Angry Men” has been presented on stage many times.

[@amazinggrace5692]

Jack Lemon was in a remake. He played juror 8, the Peter Fonda character who is the first to vote not guilty. Almost everyone here is a seasoned actor.

[@CindyNavarro]

Henry Fonda. Peter is the son of Henry.

[@lldrax2]

If you liked this, i would recommend Conspiracy with Kenneth Branagh. It's a conversation of senior Nazi party and military members discussing what to do about the "Jewish question." The casualness of it makes it one of the most frightening movies I've ever seen.

[@annieromo74]

It always fascinated me that we never got their names through the entire movie! This was done so well, very psychological and compelling all the way through. And I loved how you really talked about this after watching this -- terrific reaction. You get into WHY you were so interested in it. I was so impressed that immediately subscribed! Thank you!

[@scott3343]

They made a TV movie version of this in 1997 but I've never seen it to compare it with the original classic. The men were white, black, and Hispanic in the updated one so, yeah, diversity was addressed.

[@Bfdidc]

Piglet, actor John Fiedler, was a commonly seen character actor in numerous of very good movies and television shows, both before my time and during my youth. He even plays an interesting villain in one, but no spoilers! A very short list includes, in no particular order: The Bob Newheart Show, Harper Valley PTA, A Raisen in the Sun, The original True Grit, Star Trek TOS (Wolf In The Fold), He's also done a number of other voice acting beside Piglet. Since you discussed it, another good movie all set in one room (basically) is My Dinner With Andre.

[@catch-uppackets2664]

Which character is he in True Grit, I’ve only seen the modern one

[@Bfdidc]

@@catch-uppackets2664 He has a minor role in True Grit. Throughout the movie, the girl keeps threatening everyone with her scary lawyer. Fiedler is that lawyer and shows up at the end.

[@nicholasschroeder3678]

Villain in a Star Trek

[@ms6104]

watching you guys' reaction for some reason makes me feel like I'm watching the movie/tv show for the first time again, can't wait for more videos

[@victoriah.2083]

There wasn't enough evidence, for a motive, for someone OTHER than victim's son. At least not as the movie presented. Murder by knife is very intimate. And a switch blade is usually carried by young males in sketchy areas for self-defense. The question shouldn't be did he or didn't he, but who else could it be. Self defense could easily have gotten the teen off (for manslaughter) with the history of abuse and an argument trigger. What did they fight about? Did the Father insult the teen's Mother? That kind of thing. The teen doesn't seem that sophisticated to think about fingerprints. Could the perp have worn gloves? But, beside that, the movie is a true American gem. A tour de force of acting, blocking, camera work, editing and directing. ❤

[@franohmsford7548]

It was remade in 1997 with Jack Lemmon, Courtney B. Vance, Mykelti Williamson, James Gandolfini and William Peterson amongst others. The remake is pretty good as well but of course the Fonda version is a Masterpiece so it was difficult for people to give the remake its due.

[@jillk368]

Yep, it has. It was remade, maybe some time in the 1980s or so. The remake is actually very well done, but the original is - - the original, and the best. But, I respect the remake. It was very good as well, and also featured a stellar cast. All the best.

[@jillk368]

p.s. They spent most of the movie deliberating the evidence presented in court. It's definitely not a movie to sleep through.

[@tenchraven]

30 years ago, I was in the last Civics class my high school taught. This was one of the two movies that were used in the course, and has been one of my favorite movies ever since. It's a master class in minimalism. At the start, you asked why it's never been remade- I'm glad to see that you realize why it couldn't be remade today. And not remembering the movie was less a thing then- there were a lot of movies that were basically disposable. Matinees would be dime, and there were second tier theatres that were less expensive and were showing second run movies at matinee prices even late at night. It was that or bars. When you're channel surfing and vegging, do you remember what you were watching for background noise other than "dunno... stuff".

[@cecilegrant7840]

You guys spoke over the part of the testimony about forgetting the movie and the actors. The kid was asked in the kitchen and he couldn't recall the movie info. When interviewed in the police station he recalled the details. They remade this in a made for tv movie. In 1997.

[@paiman1976]

14:58 they do read the rest of the slips. You can hear it in the background

[@gerleg2652]

There's a newer version from the 80' i think

[@JohnSipe-jt7bm]

1997 was directed by William Friedkin and starring Jack Lemmon in Henry Fonda role. 7:06

[@richardcramer1604]

40 years after this movie in 1997 they did make a remake (with Jack lemon playing Henry Fonda's part) and yes this movie was also a book and play.

[@Telrathian]

Jack Lemon is in the 1997 made-for-television remake of "12 Angry Men." Great cast as well. Also, the script was adapted from the original by Reginald Rose the author of the original teleplay.

[@rh3749]

Excellent outro discussion! Another excellent legal film cited by lawyers is My Cousin Vinny from the 90s.

[@garrettsharpe1464]

Glad you reacted to one of my two favorite single room set movies! The other one is The Man from Earth, which I think is right up your alley.

[@garrettsharpe1464]

Aaand you talked about it at the very end. Lol

[@davidfrehler1299]

There is at least 1 more version of this movie, made for TV, Jack Lemon (1997).

[@iKvetch558]

Sweet...this is a terrific movie, by a director that probably does not get enough credit or attention for how good he was. I am sure you guys are gonna love this. I actually think that the remake of this done in 1997 is also worth watching at some point...the cast in that one is almost as good as the cast in this one...arguably better depending on how you look at it. But it is good that you are watching this version first. If you appreciate Sidney Lumet's direction of this film, I highly recommend one of his other very famous movies, Fail Safe from 1964...which is the serious counterpart to Kubrick's Dr. Strangelove black comedy of accidental nuclear war.✌💯

[@RubyGB]

Why remake something that is already perfect? Why not ask Hollywood to start showing originality and make something new and original? BTW, It's not jury nullification. A jury is not deciding actual guilt or innocence of the accused, but if the prosecution proved guilt beyond "reasonable" doubt. The fact that they had important questions which gave reasonable doubt during deliberations means the jury did their job.

[@shsrpr]

51:50 I believe the movie is about Blackstone's Ratio, a fundamental Criminal Law concept: "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." It's not so much a flaw, but a feature. It's why a crime needs to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

[@Tylerson]

I don't know if you guys have already been made aware, but there was a 1997 remake of this movie, and that is the one starring Jack Lemmon. It's directed by the guy that also directed The Exorcist, and it's very much so worth a watch. It's not as good, but I found it to be quite comparable. I only say this because I heard you mention you weren't aware of any modern remakes of this, and you also mentioned Jack Lemmon.

[@catch-uppackets2664]

Just from your comment, I went back to count how many comments we’ve gotten about the 1997 remake. I stopped counting when I got to 60 so we’ve been told about it at least 60 times now 😆

[@Tylerson]

@@catch-uppackets2664 Apologies, I didn't go and read the comments. Still though, I appreciate the videos. Always fun to see fresh reactions to movies that I know none of my friends or family will ever watch with me.

[@catch-uppackets2664]

No need to apologize! You just happened to be the lucky winner who got a response from me, I am always amused when I see another comment about the 1997 remake. It's the price we pay for being so openly wrong in the video :) Thanks for watching!!

[@Turnabout]

You guys really don't seem to know anything about how movie houses worked back in the 30s through the 50s, so allow me to explain. You didn't go to "a movie," you went to the movies. Cartoon, newsreel, two features. You went to get out of the house. If you went to see a specific picture it was usually because of a single star, but most of the time you just went to have somewhere to go. Bear in mind I was born well after this time; I know from listening to my grandpa, and my civics teacher when this movie was shown during class in high school. It's an important point and shifts the believability of this point.

[@TheAtkey]

It wasn't illegal for juror 8 to buy a switchblade knife, it was illegal for him to conduct his own investigation and bring a knife into a jury room. Switchblades are still legal in most of the US today some states and municipalities have laws on them. There is also laws on importation of them as well.

[@TheDaringPastry1313]

I know I am over a year late, but I like that the old man that voted not guilty on paper, was the very last and was extremely slow to put up his hand in the public vote for guilty 5:48 . So it makes sense that with a little doubt brought into the case, he would change his vote when not influenced by public peer pressure to not be the one to not fit in. Look how many times he inches his arm/hand up before it is finally raised.

[@TonyTigerTonyTiger]

4:40 There is a newer version of this movie. It was released in 1997.

[@jimbearone]

Color including Technicolor has been around since the 1930’s ( see ‘The Wizard Of Oz’ ) but Black and White Films continued to be made until the 1960’s mostly because of budgetary constraints and I am very glad because the lack of color made lighting and mood more prominent and this has an impact on the film.

[@jnagarya519]

"Capote," with Philip Seymour Hoffman in a one man performance in one room.

[@tbone35453]

No it isn't.

[@jnagarya519]

@@tbone35453 You haven't seen it.

[@tbone35453]

I think the demonstration with the knife is not wholly convincing. It's true that if a person is in a knife fight, he would use it the way demonstrated by the guy who grew up in the slums. But the murderer wasn't in a knife fight, and would have had time to switch hands, as he is dealing with an unsuspecting victim.

[@bigmikem1578]

There was a newer version of this movie. If I remember correctly it was a “showtime” remake in the 1990’s. I actually saw that version first when i was a kid.

[@peterengelen2794]

Actually, it was remade 40 years later as a tv-movie, by the great William Friedkin, with another amazing cast: Jack Lemmon, Ossie Davis, George C. Scott, Armin Mueller Stahl, James Gandolfini, Hume Cronyn, Edward James Olmos, Tony Danza, Mykelti Williamson, Courtney B. Vance & William Peterson.

[@aresee8208]

FWIW, I've been a juror on 3 trials, and a potential juror on many, many more. Different state and 30 years later, but we were always told not to go to the scene of the events of the trial. So, no one would have gone to the neighborhood of the defendant. Plus, of course, no one would have been allowed to bring a switch blade into the courthouse. And we had a/c.

[@bambamnj]

"Runaway Jury" 2003 movie with John Cusack is sort of based on this same premise {although not exactly}. It's a pretty good movie.

[@lsbill27]

I just think the two finding out names at the end was the older guy being impressed by the smarts and conviction of Davis. I think he wanted a more human memory of the deliberations.

[@mintjulius275]

Good on you guys for watching this, a legitimate masterpiece

[@djgrant8761]

Jack Lemmon stars in the 1997 remake. Alongside George C. Scott, James Gandolfini, Tony Danza and Mykelti Williamson who played Bubba in Forrest Gump.

[@ericjette2435]

Although not as good as the original, it's definitely worth watching for George C. Scott's performance alone.

[@djgrant8761]

@@ericjette2435 Both Jack Lemmon and George C. Scott play stellar performances.

[@ericjette2435]

@@djgrant8761 Agreed, but for me, Scott's performance is the most impactful and memorable.

[@djgrant8761]

@@ericjette2435 The scene where it is 11 to 1. Wow! That is a performance.

[@ericjette2435]

@@djgrant8761 Exactly.

[@TTM9691]

What a magic trick Sidney Lumet performed here on his very first film! Masterfully directed! Sidney Lumet made lots of great movies, especially (but not limited to) the 70s. He made two of the best EVER back to back: Dog Day Afternoon (1975 - one of Pacino's best) and Network (1976 - indescribably great). But he did other great movies, all different from each other: The Pawnbroker (1962), Serpico (1973), Deathtrap (1982), The Verdict (1982). And it's always great to see reactors hit classics; there were fantastic movies made every single year, going back to the early 1900s, movies that transcend time and communicate fresh, just like any other art form. Does every movie hold up? No! That goes for new movies! But when you see something like "12 Angry Men" and it holds up impeccably, there's something life affirming about. Something HUMAN about it. Something eternal. GREAT REACTION!

[@Ceractucus]

I second both Dog Day Afternoon and Network and the Verdict. Liked Serpico but was not crazy about it.

[@TTM9691]

@@Ceractucus Serpico is sunk by two major factors: a.) a ridiculously horrible love story subplot that makes you really appreciate what Diane Keaton brought to The Godfather! and b.) an atrocious music score. Interestingly there is no score for "Dog Day Afternoon" OR "Network" (or "The Verdict" for that matter, if memory serves me right!). I think if you lose the horrible score and edit out the dopey love subplot, "Serpico" would be a much better movie. But I agree, it's not the greatest (although definitely an essential Pacino performance somewhere down the road.)

[@LadyBeyondTheWall]

I'm glad you guys let us know what you actually thought regarding if the kid was guilty vs innocent. I know that's not really the point, but it's interesting nonetheless! I think he's probably guilty too, but I do think they did a good job of leaving some reasonable doubt about whether the old man could have seen the boy running down the stairs or whether the woman could actually have seen him through the window. I love they left some things in that can definitely make you think he did it though, like losing his knife and have absolutely 0 alibi/not remembering anything about the movies even if he was under emotional distress. We had to watch this in our government class in 9th grade. And you'd *think* a bunch of 13-14 year olds sitting around watching a black and white movie from the 50's would make everyone sleep but it kept us awake and engaged. And regardless of the inaccuracies here vs people in a real jury now, it taught me A LOT about reasonable doubt and what that actually means. I think it has affected how I viewed trials my entire life - especially when the media and the country, and now social media, decide someone's guilt or innocence before a trial even starts. I've definitely learned to hold my judgment on things like that and wait for actual evidence.

[@Daneelro]

Especially in the light of what we know now about the work of the police, I don't think having no alibi and having been _recorded_ as not remembering anything about the movies are strong arguments. On the alibi: if the guy didn't meet any friends, then he was just a face in the crowd, and that at night with the weak lighting they had back then, for every potential witness. On not remembering anything about the movies, version 1: if you're distraught and are asked irrelevant questions, your mind will be elsewhere, but police can record your lack of answering as not remembering, especially if they don't like you. Version 2: back then, people watched movies much more often and much more casually, like people watch TV now. They could go in without bothering about the title and ignore it if it wasn't interesting or their mind was elsewhere.

[@6666Imperator]

you definitely could say that the first guy to vote "not guilty" was a bit stubborn in not wanting to kill him. In that some might call him a leftist snowflake nowadays. I don't mean his first inquiry to talk about it but rather later on. With the information that we are presented everyone can form their own opinion and based on what they think happened/what's true and what is not they come to different conclusions. For example we don't know how the police did their job. Did they actually even investigate different possibilities or were they locked on the boy from the moment that he ran into them and they knew about the knife? Afterall he was a slum kid so why invest much time? Now, for the question of who else could have done it and why use that knife? We know little about the father. He lives in the slums, was once caught for forgery and he beats his kid. Could it be that he made some enemies, has debt with the wrong people or was involved in illegal activities again? Depending on how he lived he definitely could have made enemies for himself and someone like that could definitely try to frame the boy or coincidentally have a similar knife because maybe they were not so rare as the salesman suggested (the juror could easily buy one too afterall). We know nowadays that eye witnesses are a very much double-edged sword because people easily make mistakes in these cases. Also if the boy was guilty and they let him run free it might not be as bad as letting a serial killer on the loose. In that case he killed his father because of how he treated him for years and most likely he won't just go on a murder spree because of that when he is free. Not excusing the act itself but you better make that mistake with him than with a robber who killed while robbing a place for example.

[@Daneelro]

@@6666Imperator The last one to hold out as "guilty" definitely called the first one to vote "not guilty" (and anyone who joined him) the contemporary equivalent of the modern US right-wing slur "leftist snowflake". Ever since the 1850s, the US right-wing is remarkable for the level of projection in all their slurs against real and imagined opponents.

[@6666Imperator]

@@Daneelro the funny thing for me about it is always that these people usually are the ones who get agitated quickly and make a big fuss out of everything so basically exactly what they accuse the other side of. Not saying everyone on the "other side" is always correct or good but it does feel like the right wing really likes to accuse others of whatever they do but louder :D

[@ashbridgeindustries380]

@@Daneelro Agreed. Juror 3 calling everyone who disagreed with him "bleeding hearts" is pretty much the 50s equivalent of "snowflake", and the way it's used to deflect from any real discussion because he knows his own arguments don't stand up to scrutiny is also quite reminiscent of how that word is used today.