Two-pot retirement system is a scam - SAFTU

[@ntokozomdlalose4852]

39% tax on R30k withdrawal. Finally someone has label this for what it is "SCAM". This is not to help us but to generate more funds to loot. Amesela lawa

[@truth-Hurts375]

Since when does it help you to use your retirement money before retiring ???? Dom Doos !!!!

[@mrb2643]

@@truth-Hurts375 if you are fired or leave jobs and or are retrenched. many other situations but some peoples minds cannot comprehend the list of circumstances that life throws at you...their minds are limited to only their shallow and narrow perspective, drowning them from learning and creating a false sense of ego intelligence with them, its not you im talking about if you were sharp enough to follow but perhaps other people, not you

[@letlhogonolokolberg772]

​@@truth-Hurts375 Another cry baby who can't engage on meaningful conversations without insulting people😳

[@molefiramatheko4795]

😂😂 lack of knowledge is killing many people because of lazy to learn any money the government has the right to tax it nothing you can do study everything and refrain following idiot's advices😮

[@djdinobravo]

Mr Vavi is right. It’s a scam. Retirement should not be taxed. We are already taxed all of our lives.

[@tebom9456]

💯

[@NokoRamoroka-ho5ze]

thank you, Mr Vavi. you are raising important facts. there is not need for the government to tax us on these funds.

[@AndileZigoxo]

Admin fees as well😂

[@MrEvansjethro]

@@AndileZigoxo It is always expected that an illogical to make your kind of comment.

[@Inprogress_of_newbeginings]

Please understand how tax calculations work. It's R30,000 to your annual income, less rebates/abatements. It's not going to be so much. Also, if people don't want to pay tax don't withdraw.

[@MxolisiMthembu12]

​@@Inprogress_of_newbeginingsIs the R30 000 coming from an employee's annual income or from the retirement fund?

[@truth-Hurts375]

Then you must pay the tax before it goes into your retirement fund...same difference !!! Domkop !!!

[@GeorgeThomas964]

Thank you Lord Jesus for the gift of life and blessings to me and my family $45,120.47 monthly profit Our lord Jesus has lifted my Life!!!🙏❤❤❤

[@GeorgeThomas964]

Well, the investment-advisor that guides me is..

[@GeorgeThomas964]

Cathie Wood

[@CharlotteMorgan20]

😱Sounds familiar, I have heard her name on several occasions.. and both her success stories in the wall Street journal!!!

[@michaelcarl434]

Her services is the best, I got a brand new Lambo last week and paid off my mortgage loan thanks to her wonderful services!

[@Gfhdbfbbc]

Wow wow please is there any way to reach there services, I work 3 jobs and trying to pay off my students loan for a while now

[@hgfku-tn6hb]

Reject what vavi is saying and regret later. This system is going to create unexpected confusion and corruption

[@truth-Hurts375]

Kak praat nie !!! Where is the corruption at old mutual ????

[@GlenroseMakgorogo]

Vavi is aging and he's voice of reason. If we don't open our eyes, the government will rob us blind

[@vusumzincwadi8982]

We were never consulted as government employees about this nonsense

[@vthomas2482]

Blame the Unions for NOT informing its members because they knew

[@kgomotsothamage847]

Thanks a lot, please save us from this cruel people of scamming us

[@tlharichauke4662]

Our government is very cruel indeed

[@mrb2643]

GOverment taxes you, then you go to the stores and pay tax on what you buy. for R100 you earn, you must pay R20 income tax. You take your R80 to buy petrol and food and pay another 15% tax.

[@terryb5612]

This is a scam. It's governments way to fast track income tax into it's coffers. Your first R550000 is tax free. Why don't they deduct the withdrawals from that portion? I agree with Vavi. This is a cruel way to help people out of dept. They will be back in dept in a few months.

[@chwayitazihlangu305]

I truly agree. In real fact, why are they not taking from the first 550K as it is Tax Free? Individuals can then get taxed upon reaching that 550K threshold.

[@benjaminmalope9311]

Bring Minister of Finance and Labour to explain this point Mr Vavi is raising

[@enigma5703]

Agree with Mr Vavi, after years of paying taxes, we should not be taxed on our retirement. At retirement, you have paid your dues.

[@malosemasimini3944]

Good Mr Vavi. The second pot comes as a trap and scam. We actually need the money that will help us take a great financial leap. What can we do with these 30 thousands mara?

[@ntokozomdlalose4852]

LOOTING VOLUME 2 Done by the government.

[@mrb2643]

create jobs then more tax, more money for government to steal. no need ot steal from the 10% of tax payers funding 90% of this country, NSFAS, Public works, NHI

[@shafiyaalgiquadra1105]

May you never tire of fighting for the poor Mr. Vavi. Even as they are felled by their own ignorance.

[@Mzola100]

This thing must be challenged in court.

[@TheRealEtaoinShrdlu]

Ok, go. Challenge it in court.

[@zanelengubane4331]

Don't you think it's too late for that?

[@sphamandlalumkile1171]

Its too late my guy next month it’s kicking in 😢

[@isaacsaki3029]

I agree bcz is indeed unconstitutional this is not a consistent move it can be reversed is not too late under Cyril ramaphosa, leadership we are in deep shite

[@Lihle100]

Nothing is irreversible

[@dumirose9174]

Who wants to take 30000rand then to be taxed 10%,who came up with this mess,then you pay it back. Financial illiteracy

[@derekwoolley9729]

The only winner here is the tax man.

[@ExcitedArcticBirds-ck3fd]

Exactly. I just calculated my little Pension fund and SARS IS GOING TO TAKE A WHOOPING 7K ....

[@piusbasi4232]

This is Nonsense

[@khathi92]

This is a scam period!!! I advise people not to take this money

[@vthomas2482]

1000%

[@lindafisher717]

I actually agree with vavi.

[@MzamoAdoons372]

Our unions especially in the public service are just useless

[@leanolaone6431]

They 'eat' with the ANC that's why I have always said they are not for us the people.

[@shafiyaalgiquadra1105]

😂dutch settlers and Unions, an age old battle.

[@vthomas2482]

Especially THIS one

[@mrb2643]

They dont create jobs they strike, violent and bring companies to the knees. Sibanye, they FOUGHT the system for double digit increase in 2022. by 2024 13 000 people get retrenched from Sibanye. SO companies will play the game because of violent militant unions

[@Qhawemusic7384]

Say that again bahlangene nabaqashi kuxhashazwa abasebenzi

[@SasiponPanavaravatn]

At 39 and recently laid off, I’m at a breaking point. With $425K saved for early retirement at 50, $10K in an HSA, and a property that could yield an additional $200K, what are my options for generating steady income?

[@RichardGeorge-uj9iu]

It’s reasonable to consider getting a financial advisor now, but delaying retirement might be a wiser choice

[@SasiponPanavaravatn]

I’m unsure weather to find another job or merge all my investment accounts into one. If I do, how should I handle it, and are there any potential drawbacks? I also plan to sell my property, which could add $200K over time. Should I consolidate my investments into a single account or spread them across various markets?

[@RhysHuntoffice]

These are crucial questions for a financial planner. I met mine at a NYSE summit, and with her help, my wife and I reallocated our $1.7M portfolio between a traditional IRA and a brokerage account. She’s been making investments with our approval and has helped us recover twice our losses. We’re holding steady and carefully navigating more markets

[@ronniewilliams-g222]

That’s impressive! My portfolio is struggling. Who’s the advisor?

[@RhysHuntoffice]

June Renae Matthysse. Look her up online; she’s well-known

[@josephphitla1254]

Government owes me a proper consultation over my money,

[@nonhlanhlambalizeemthembu3879]

Totally agree

[@SundaySoulSessions-SSS]

Government defrauding working class.

[@aykay9328]

In collusion with corporate, these monies are invested in insurance companies

[@PhindileMahlangu-f8m]

What if I get dismissed before retirement will I get my vested pot?

[@thembanicekiso1731]

I agree this is a scam because they will deduct an Administration fee and then Tax . ..then mna I get change

[@sphamandlalumkile1171]

Its always like that just that now you can get your money anytime without retiring yet

[@twentyfifty2050]

​@@sphamandlalumkile1171"R30 000" not my money bafo

[@hopegouws123Florence]

Why not leave people's money that they have worked so hard for what does the government think people cant handle their hard urned money leave our funds alone why should we be educated how to use our monies this is not fair we are being over taxed😢😢

[@judeshgovender6729]

this is a scam to take from one side

[@LebogangMorake-w3u]

We need that money 💰 to fund our business and pay our school fees since we struggling to get funds from government...30k isn't enough 😢

[@banelemahlasela8663]

But you will end up with less because of Tax

[@Jupiter-db9tg]

​@@banelemahlasela8663what is the Tex percentage?of R30000 for example if I earned less than R95000 p/a

[@webuildDigital]

We dont want this two pot scam . Mr Vavi we stand with you . We need to stop this from becoming law. We wont the two pot system.

[@khathi92]

And people are busy worried about Chidima being a Nigerian while their government are passing laws that will kill their retirement funds!!!! Sick nation

[@NokoRamoroka-ho5ze]

😂😂😂 Not all people are affected by the two-pot system.

[@vthomas2482]

Yup

[@kabelontjana2577]

we are everywhere on matters affecting our beautiful nation, we care less about outsiders affairs

[@ndwekazim4881]

U bring that identity theft issue on this platform, that is very sick, nxaa

[@twentyfifty2050]

Remember that in South Africa, only a few people are employed and fewer actually get pension contributions. We can't blame the nation for not uproaring.

[@mikenortje3023]

100% true Mr Vavi

[@josephphitla1254]

We reject this nonsense

[@mrb2643]

Most people dont realise now that their Money is stuck in the vested pot and retirement pot , unlike before , if you were in real trouble needed to resign or fired, you could access all, now those funds are locked and you can only get whatever small savings in the Savings Pot.

[@_Aizen_Died_Lastnight_]

I think I'll resign before 1st

[@aldw-rn6qy]

I can recall when I was homeless and faced with many things in Life until $75,000 biweekly began rolling in and my Life went from A homeless nobody to a different person with good things to offer!!!!!!❤️❤️

[@SusanLizzy-ko1zz]

I'm 37 and have been looking for ways to be successful, please how??

[@aldw-rn6qy]

After enduring many struggles, I am now filled with gratitude for owning a new home. My family is happy, and everything is finally falling into place.

[@aldw-rn6qy]

Sure, the investment-advisor that guides me is..

[@aldw-rn6qy]

MRS KIANA DANIAL

[@RomeoNzeh]

Wow, that's a lot! How do you manage to earn that much every week?

[@cherylvandermeulen6897]

It's so sad to see how the government manipulates the people. Everyone has to pay tax on your pension because that money is saved and deducted so you less tax monthly BUT YOU WILL PAY TAX ON THAT MONEY LATER. BUT YOU SHOULD NOT DRAW ON YOUR PENSION UNTIL YOU RETIRE, IF YOU DO YOU WILL GET LESS MONEY THEN. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING WHAT THE ANC IS DOING😮

[@ZaneleMshu-Modi]

Scam it must not be taxed finish klaar THERE WAS NO CONSULTATION AT ALL WITH US THIS IS OUR MONEY NOT BOARDROOM MONEY

[@thandugonose9769]

Thank you Vavi.

[@mponengjoe9075]

For those who want to withdraw the R30000 .make sure U increase your pension contribution by at least R500 per month to make sure U cover for the withdrawal by the time you go to retirement.

[@welileblom9273]

But what can people on the ground can do to stop this because its very wrong

[@vthomas2482]

Absolutely NOTHING !!!!

[@teem7303]

@@vthomas2482 Arab spring. If everybody says "WE CAN"T TAKE IT ANYMORE", then serious reforms will take place.

[@VIEWMARY001]

when i first heard about this i was happy thinking it's gonna be some meaningful benefit, but just like Vavi i have since came to the conclusion that it's a scam. what can you do with 30K - tax? -- stupid law.

[@mershanmoodley5640]

SAFTU.. Thanks For Speaking Up!! Yes, People Are Riddled By Inflation, Prices N 4 A Better Quality Of Life.. So Naturally They Will Be Spending It & Rolling-With-It Throughout The Economy.. ✌️

[@stevemartin7464]

The thing I worry about is people withdrawing their pensions and not having any left when they are older. We used to have a system where people could withdraw their pensions and it was quite rightly scrapped because too many people are left destitute. I think this is a bad idea.

[@lindafisher717]

Do we just register on the Alex Forbes app?

[@khathi92]

Till this day, some people still don't understand this two pot system 😒 😕

[@nhlanhla.vchili960]

Working class must learn to save money so they could stay away from such things. We can’t be making so much noise for R30k whereas most taxed income is halft close to R30k, Learn to save money 👏🏾

[@vthomas2482]

Yup

[@MartinVilakazi-ft9de]

Bru I believe you haven't done enough research about the economy of this country

[@jeandrejacobs5433]

You won't even get R30 000 they will still deduct tax. It will be much less.

[@nhlanhla.vchili960]

@@MartinVilakazi-ft9de my brother if we can be honest with ourselves we all know that this R30k is not worth it, it is so expensive; not only does it get taxed heavily but it also eating up retirement which is currently not enough on it own. Under any economic condition people will alwys have money problems, and there’s little to non that can be solved with this R30k. We have personal finance issues and not the economy issues, if we can take care of our finances we can be all good trust me🤞🏾. Pardon my comments if they sound arrogant, but they coming from a very good place👊🏽

[@nhlanhla.vchili960]

@@jeandrejacobs5433 this money honestly is not worth it, you will be taxed and after the financial year most people will be owing sars 🤞🏾, it is said that when they closing the year they will calculate this R30k as a monthly income which will indicate that you have been taxed less than you should be💔

[@Gas20063]

Lol, the government has been looking at the value of the public employees' retirement fund. All those trillions and no way to get your hands on them, but now that has changed: the government has managed to split your attention towards your retirement. Now, they can access your retirement.

[@sphiwemnisi6422]

workers are being taxed every time they make contributions to retirement funds, why must we texted also when we withdraw?

[@Qhawemusic7384]

They making us professional slaves

[@sophie7571]

Contributions to retirement funds are not taxed

[@teem7303]

@@sophie7571 But withdrawals are, which is quite criminal and highly unethical. But yes.... our government has never been known to possess any ethics whatsoever.

[@sophie7571]

@@teem7303 why do you think it's not ethical? Contributions were exempt from tax because they are money set aside for when you are no longer working. But if you elect to withdraw it before then, it is no longer for your retirement so why should it not be taxed just as the rest of your income is?

[@teem7303]

@@sophie7571 That's what income tax is for. Why should they again tax my retirement funds? Did we not pay enough tax whilst working? Is VAT, fuel levy, sin tax and all other manner of taxes not enough? Now, according to you, it's justified that they tax me for retirement? According to your logic, it's justified that we're punished for using our own money that we set aside, earlier than the projected date due to current and pressing matters.

[@hopewellzungu8457]

Yes, this is modern slavery.

[@percymashao1472]

With 600 000 Old mutual members predicted to withdraw, Assuming admin charges of around R300 will mean Old mutual will make +-R 180 million. Now if the average tax is 26% meaning it will tax members R7 800, then Sars stand to make +- R4.6 Billion just from old mutual's clients. Imagine if they get 4.6 Billion from each administrator( Sanlam, Momentum, Discovery and etc.) then Sars will make Trillions. They don't have to wait for people to retire anymore. That is the main aim for two pot, To fund SARs while in the disguise of "helping" South Africans

[@bhekumusamalindisa8605]

They do as they please with our money without our consent or agreement, this is not meant to benefit us as individuals otherwise it wouldn't be considered...this money is locked/kept away from us so that investment companies can have access to it knowing 55 years is still far, 30K/year do they even know what problems and emergencies i need money for to decide that? lets not agree to this scam, it must be challenged properly in a court of law.

[@daniegreyvenstein6120]

This is wrong

[@VusiNdlovu-mt2fi]

Thank Mr vavi your input aligned most

[@edwilljohannes4599]

No government initiatives I'd for the people but for them when will people understand that?

[@nhlanhla.vchili960]

True 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@khayalikhulutwalo9260]

I share the same sentiment as Mr. Vavi

[@ayandazulu8014]

If whatever money you’ll get takes your annual salary to the next level of tax bracket you’ll be taxed according to that Tax bracket absurd

[@vthomas2482]

Yup

[@shaheedcassim2557]

I don't agree with unions on much but he is right when he said no consultation took place. There was a consultation with supposed "stakeholders" but I guess the people who the money actually belongs to aren't the stakeholders😂now suddenly the companies that were managing employee benefits are being bought and closed down and suddenly your funds administrator is changed? Sounds like a way to put a price on you and sell you if as a customer to one of the big players in the financial industry

[@RyanTripodza]

If money is withdrawn from a retirement fund, prior to the person retiring, it is no longer money for retirement and thus is eligible to be taxed.

[@TheRealEtaoinShrdlu]

Exactly. What the hell is Vavi on about?! No wonder SAFTU is so useless with this. 😂😂😂

[@vthomas2482]

Exactly 🤷‍♂️

[@MsMak03]

I’m actually shocked by the misinformation. WTH??

[@vthomas2482]

@@TheRealEtaoinShrdlu 🤣🤣🤣

[@YEYE3019-p2w]

(Retirement annuity) Old Mutual is only giving 10% of the premiums payed to date. Why can't they give 10% of the total money invested. E.g 10 × R100 (premium) = R1000. 10% (R100 - tax) = R75 - R80 (2 pot withdrawal)

[@edwardbhengu7864]

We were left out as main stakeholders (the workers) the process was not fair our rights were looked down upon. This is setting a trend which undermines the worker's rights in South Africa. It is not going to end exploiting the entire south Africans.

[@GordonMkhize-g1c]

The industry is not ready

[@GordonMkhize-g1c]

Michelle didn't sound convincing when answering the question asked by Aldrin about their readiness

[@tiaanscheepers5425]

Well done SAFTU 🎉, keep educating. But Im happy about the 2 pot system it could really help people eventually in a dire situation while safeguarding them against themselves for the future.

[@mdralo6361]

My Old Mutual Provident fund at 55 years last year was supposed to be around seven hundred thousand as per maturity value agreement but I ended up receiving less tha five hundred thousand with the investment of 2 thousand rands for 23 years of which maturity date was January 2023. I so much regret and will never do any investment with Old Mutual🙁

[@mpotsengmandla5519]

Let me cancel my investments with them.😢

[@Z.Finance]

It is a losing battle when you try to get unions to go against academics. How can you expect the averagely learned trade union representative to go against doctors level educated individuals? Such things will continue to happen coz no matter unions says, their members will go ahead and withdraw because the academics knew very well that such offers are irresistible like early retirement offers given by companies

[@dineshanpillay5944]

Saftu is a scam, tell us vote anc, we suffer while these guys stay in mansions

[@Luba_Dyasi]

Dont confuse Saftu with Cosatu please maan

[@shafiyaalgiquadra1105]

You would love to impose serf-like conditions of employment without Unions to push back, F'n ghoul

[@truth-Hurts375]

Kak praat nie....

[@vthomas2482]

Exactly

[@siyabongakoyo238]

Haibo SAFTU never told you to vote ANC you're confusing SAFTU with COSATU wena

[@judeshgovender6729]

i agree with the gentlemen

[@paulinapatel]

AT least government should have give people Once off R100000 and after 7 years give provision for withdrawal but less percentage.So that people can build 4 room houses especially those who don't qualify for bond or use money to pay off debt or extend houses etc. So R30000 that will be taxed is not going to assist instead people will continue to sink in debt Because Government will Tax same R30000. I also think Vavi is correct by this.Who decided that R30000 will assist. Only Government will be making money.But problem Mr Vavi you speak now late..September is close. Big Q? Is how is it going to be changed because Reform is signed by President. Disappointing from our Government .especially for struggling people.

[@siyabongamkiva6856]

True Mr Vavi

[@BarbaraMogari-fx2jr]

Thank you Mr Vavi true

[@mzwandileluthuli2857]

Why must I pay back my own money weh babe ANC and freakin parliament, who approved this nonsense, anisuthi zinja ninomhobholo masela ndini.

[@maxwellmichaels393]

When will this campaign be because people don't actually afree with this but the indebted life and hunger is pushing them to withdraw. ANC is killing the workers 😢😢😢😢

[@TinaNgcobo]

It is an insult 😢

[@chaukelattovulture106]

Revolution will reveal the truth. 😢😢😢😢

[@dumisanizikhali4790]

What happened to the first 25000 tax free portion on any withdrawal this is indeed a scam by gvt

[@reaganvanrooyen4209]

So true

[@Kidschesstutor]

We must take to the street , this 30k must not be taxed...

[@sirdon8883]

Two 6 pot😂 you will hear how much people money is stolen after this month

[@bafanahectorzoya1833]

This is a scam why is the tax will go up as if your salary has increased while it has not increased this is unfair

[@teem7303]

Who political party, private or government entity came up with this idea of a 2-pot system?

[@angelamanzini3497]

7+% tax doesn't make sense.

[@123heinie]

Your first R550 000 is tax free when you retire. Vavi seems oblivious to this

[@vthomas2482]

Because HE Dosent understand it and refuses to listen to the people who do.🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@aykay9328]

He is not talking about retirees but people who are constrained financially and need a little reprieve as they r overstretched to pay for things like fees, etc without making a loan but using thier own money seated in retirement

[@kumaranpoonen]

Thanks Mr Vavi for showing and telling the cruel truth about this Two pot system. Atleast Old Mutual is agreeing that this 30k is just not there...

[@LuyandaMdabe]

Who told government i want to work until retirement age? What if i want to retire or resign at the age of 40 and want to take my money do start.my own business?

[@johannvandermerwe8571]

Its wrong to tax pensioners money period

[@chloevan40]

I agree, we are taxed all our life's on everything, the money we put to our pensions has already been taxed and should not be taxed again

[@junechapman7751]

One word: Disgraceful

[@louisenieuwmeijer5337]

Taxing pensions to finance stealing.

[@cashandramara2867]

And what rubbish is this that we as the working class don’t qualify for the old age grant? All our lives we paid tax.

[@teem7303]

According to them, you have retirement saved, so don't be a burden on the state and also want an old-age grant.

[@andrewchipo9282]

Ppl the truth is cosatu knw abt ths s always thy sold us out to anc of ramaphosa

[@vthomas2482]

1000%

[@ChristoBrand-d6e]

Running out of time for a program like this is bullshit. Shame on you😢😢😢

[@eugeneboonzaier9667]

Solution...tax those who voted for the ANC.

[@thembachrismasuku1028]

Daylight robbery, how do they want to tax twice, we were taxed when we earned it now y are taxing again?

[@webuildDigital]

I will vote for any political party who will stop this.

[@banelenkosi6803]

Agree with Vavi!!

[@josephphitla1254]

This not time to tlk, someone needs to put an interdict, organize a match for this

[@CodeNameV]

At the minimum, it should have been a single much lower tax rate, bug I agree, NO tax should have been charged.

[@blackmarkmoafrika4409]

If its meant to help workers why is it not exempted from tax so that the 30k u get or whatever amount remains as it is...

[@TinaNgcobo]

Yes it is scam indeed not happy with this 10 percent .it is

[@motoaisusan3124]

What a mess ..

[@roynaidoo3995]

Vavi please ask the government why tax on retirement not the Old Mutual spokeswomen

[@moanegwathwadi5994]

yooh this is a scam😢

[@petrosphungula]

Mr Vavi please stand for us ,this system will kill South Africans because when they implement this 2pot ,they didn't about people who are loosing their jobs.