Breakthrough Energy Storage Tech CRUSHES battery prices by 90%!

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We desperately need new ways to store energy, if we are to increase the use of solar and wind. But as amazing as lithium-ion batteries are, supply chain concerns have left many looking for alternatives. What if we could use some seriously old tech, but with a new twist, a breakthrough new material for grid energy storage? Flywheels aren't new, but might they be poised for their moment in the sun? Let's find out today! Breakthrough Energy Storage Tech CRUSHES battery prices by 90%!
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction
00:54 What It WIll Take
01:55 So Fly...Wheel!
04:00 Current Projects
04:25 How They Work
07:06 Ideal Solution
08:55 Pros
09:46 Cons
10:47 Carbon Nanotubes!
12:16 Conclusions
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[@TwoBitDaVinci]

Go to bit.ly/3xzaugU and use code TWOBIT to get 15% off ClickUp's massive Unlimited Plan for a year! Start reclaiming your time for less than $5 a month.

[@Berkana]

Do these ultra high energy storage flywheels have gyroscopic forces that resist the rotation of the turning of the earth? As the hours go by, a flywheel mounted vertically will change orientation due to the earth's rotation to a non-trivial extent. Gyroscopic forces would certainly exert pressure on the axis of rotation. Could this contribute to flywheel losses? I imagine that a flywheel storing a huge amount of energy would have to be pointed at true north and tilted to be parallel to the axis of the earth to cancel out this problem, but none of the flywheels you showed in your video seem to be doing that.

[@simon6071]

It is so foolish for the global warming and climate change alarmists to think doing away with fossil fuels is a good idea. In fact, the accumulation of fossil fuels, biofuels and sequester of CO2 in the ground for a long period of time will eventually lead to a repeat of the largest mass extinction of life on earth like that happened 250 million years ago when massive volcanic eruptions caused huge amount of CO2 and natural gas trapped underground to be released into the atmosphere. We know the killer lake Nyos killed a large number of people many years ago when the CO2 accumulated at the bottom of the lake released all at once during an earthquake. Since then some smart scientists have been keeping the lake safe by releasing the CO2 from the bottom of the lake into the atmosphere gradually with pipes and pumps. Suppression of CO2 release into the atmosphere by banning fossil fuels and by sequestering CO2 in the ground is as stupid as suppressing the dissipation of CO2 from the killer lake Nyos into the atmosphere by banning the degassing with pipes and pumps.

[@TheWeaponshold]

I do not ven know if this is a current thing or even possible but... Magnetic bearings for the flywheels? Can't lose energy to friction if there is none yeah? Or even the much harder possibility of using quantum locking (but how would we keep it that cold?)

[@Berkana]

@@TheWeaponshold magnetic bearings are not lossless. They can induce currents which give resistance that drag on the flywheel.

[@TheWeaponshold]

@@Berkana Eddy currents. You can use windings to reduce that but IIRC that was to redirect the energy not prevent losses. But I would still love to see comparative testing.

[@NinetooNine]

Kodiak Alaska produces over 99% of its electricity from renewable sources (wind and hydro). They originally used Lithium ION battery banks as their battery storage solution. However, while lithium ION batteries are great for consistent stable power flow, when there are spikes in the grid it puts a lot of strain on those batteries, aging them prematurely. Kodiak is a big fishing town, and the spikes were expected to come from a new electric crane they would use for ship loading/unloading. To solve this issue, they added flywheel storage to the mix. The Lithium ION batteries provided a stable energy output, and the flywheels kicked in to handle spikes in power. To my knowledge, they were one of the first, if not the first public power grid to use both these solutions in tandem. It is still in operation to this day.

[@Israel_Two_Bit]

Awesome. Great contribution.

[@USA2Brazil]

85% of 🇧🇷's electricity is from renewables.( Hydro, Solar, and Wind. ).

[@johndoh5182]

The company ESS makes Iron Redux flow batteries and it's probably a better solution but it would require good insulation and a little heat applied to the containers for the batteries.

[@PhilipX2030]

@@Pervatory wind turbines..

[@MM-sf3rl]

Kodiak port wanted to install a new 2-MW crane, potentially causing destabilizing power fluctuations leading to undesirable cycle of the batteries. This is why they got the ABB fly wheel, and an electric crane, displacing thousands of gallons of diesel and millions of dollars of diesel costs. This also reduced the transport of thousands of gallons of diesel in extreme weather conditions. And, lowered the kWh cost to residents.

[@sssbob]

I have personally machined hundreds of large rotors and housings for a company called 'Active Power'. It's my understanding that flywheels are used in uninterruptable power situations to provide an instantaneous response to a power disruption, say in a hospital for instance. They are only used for very short times, until standby diesel generators can take over.

[@johnspathonis1078]

About 40 years ago our computer branch ( in very large government department) pulled its electricity supply from a electric generator powered by an electric motor. Sandwiched in between this motor/generator set was a 1000 kg steel disc flywheel. This revolved at 1500 rpm. The purpose of this system was to isolate the computer branch from very short term power loss and electricity spikes.

[@arturoeugster7228]

That is right, normally it is not wisely to store large amounts of energy in an inertia wheel with large angular momentum, because the failure mode associated with bearing failure has catastrophic effects, well documented 70 years ago, when MFO build and operated so called gyro buses having a vertical axis flywheel, which had to be recharged on every stop. They were eventually delivered to Adìs abeba to fulfill Haile Selassie personal oder . During testing one had a bearing failure, broke out of the enclosure up the test pit and destroyed a considerable number of machine tools on the factory floor, needless to say that the redesign lead to considerable derating of the system, essentially eliminating other customers.

[@mennovanlavieren3885]

Imagine a carbon nanotube wheel in your car that stores 400 miles of driving energy. It will level buildings when it frees itself. Not to mention the handling of a car with a giant gyroscope inside. You can only drive level on flat surfaces.

[@arturoeugster7228]

@@mennovanlavieren3885 Actually the gyrobuses had double gimbaled flywheel suspension, exercising no torque on the vehicle on startup the gimbals had small orthogonal torquers to keep the axis upright

[@sssbob]

@@arturoeugster7228 If the flywheel is allowed to freely gimbal, how is it mechanically connected to a generator or to the vehicle's drivetrain?

[@jcsjcs2]

30 years ago: "Now we just have to make carbon nano tubes long enough and we'll have amazing applications." Since CNTs are short, they are mixed into an epoxy matrix, considerably reducing the tensile strength (which is exceedingly good in only one-dimension if I'm not mistaken). The result is still amazing, but nothing compared to the numbers of pure CNT.

[@mattcom2]

Very interesting. Back in the 1970s, Bill Lear…of Learjet fame…was given an award by the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia. I interviewed him, discussing a number of topics having to do with creativity and innovation in technology. Needing to double-check a few of my scrawled notes, I called him at his home near Las Vegas and fell down a rabbit hole which turned into an hour’s conversation about his view of the future of transportation. Lear was most enthusiastic about two things he saw as wide open for development: a reinvention of the steam engine as a means of basic propulsion and…flywheels. This was some 50 years ago, and an inventor best known for developing the car radio (Motorola) and private jet aircraft was fixated on flywheels for energy storage and distribution. The most important development needed, he said, was creation of a material capable of handling all that energy at extraordinary speed and near infinite run-time. Maybe we’re closing in on what he foresaw.

[@germaine5933]

This brings back memories of UPS beeps, my co-workers' groans and cheers when we lose power and the UPS kicks in for our desktop computers.

[@brianward7550]

Potter's wheels, spinning wheels, and the so-called "great wheel" lathes we're all examples of flywheels, also sewing machines used to use treadle operated flywheels as well. Basically, before the steam era flywheels were powering a lot of industry

[@vylbird8014]

They weren't really powering anything though. They were just acting to smooth out irregular energy flow over a period of seconds. More like a modern capacitor than a battery.

[@oldmech619]

@@vylbird8014 And it was fun to spin up the pedal sewing machines. That didn’t last long. It was fun as a kid, but I learned fun could be curtailed by an angry mother.

[@DrewNorthup]

#1: No heat? I think somebody's pulling your leg. The resistance may seem futile, but it is still there. #2: These are likely to be most useful for phase maintenance, keeping fluctuations as various sources and sinks go on- and off-line to a minimum.

[@BW022]

Yes. How can something lose 3% of its rotational energy per hour and not generate heat? Where else can that energy go? It doesn't make chemicals, its mass isn't increasing, it's not raising itself into the air, etc. So... it must go into thermal. If it is slowing, that energy must go into heating bearings.

[@mragendds]

I’ve been hearing about carbon nano tubes for at least 20 years! They are always right around the corner to produce at scale. Sort of how unclear has been coming for 20 years.

[@troyclayton]

Me too, but they were called Buckytubes. Not sure about the new branding.

[@garethbaus5471]

A few commercial products have been made using carbonara nanotubes, mostly sports equipment. We have only known that carbon nanotubes existed at all for about 30 years, so it isn't all that surprising that we have a while before technology developed with them isn't mature yet.

[@vincentrobinette1507]

They're the very same nanotubes, that would make the next generations of electrochemical batteries more energy dense as well.

[@simongross3122]

@@garethbaus5471 I think carbonara tubes are some sort of pasta :)

[@garethbaus5471]

@@simongross3122 That typo is funny enough that I won't correct it.

[@tofu_golem]

Two other things. The faster you spin a large mass, the more dangerous it is if something goes wrong. Also, the faster you spin your flywheel, the faster you lose kinetic energy by heating up your lubricant. Also, shouldn't lubricants be worse at lubricating at higher rotational velocity? Fluid resistance is roughly proportional to speed if I remember right.

[@DrewNorthup]

Good point about the lubricants. It also applies to eddy currents in magnetic bearings-so you'd still be right even if they were using those and not ball bearings or roller bearings.

[@jasemo388]

Are the energy losses in standby still 3-20%? My understanding was that the modern generation of flywheels - sealed in a vacuum and using magnetic (floating) bearings - had significantly mitigated their passive energy loss. Could you update this detail or suggest a source to check on this further?

[@MM-mo9hn]

i would like a recap/round up on all the 'break troughs' you've presented over the years and follow up where they're at now.

[@mas13ish1]

I know of a data center that used flywheels as part of their energy backup system. The flywheel kicked in immediately after power loss to provide energy while their UPS system kicked on. They said it was more reliable and prevented the split second of power loss most UPS devices have when turning on.

[@mgeorgeson24]

It would be pretty awesome to see small flywheels applied to say a ride on lawn mower, tools that could potentially be "charged" up for the job, and then let run to zero before needed to be used again

[@emilperic8163]

flywheels are heavy it wouldn't be practical.

[@dannyb9223]

The video said that these can lose 3 to 20% of their charge per hour. I would like to know the source of that (my Google searches only gave the lifetime of the flywheel). My understanding of current-gen flywheels is that they are stored in a vacuum, so there's no air friction. Ball bearings are very efficient, or they may even magnetically levitate the flywheel, giving no friction at all. High losses may have been the norm in older systems, but even losing 3% of its power per hour doesn't seem real with the modern systems.

[@oblivion_2852]

I have a suspicion a significant percentage is lost to the rotation of the earth

[@2meters2]

The interesting thing is that currently flywheels are used extensively on our electric power grid. If you switch on a light bulb, there is some flywheel on a power generator that instantly produces that power. Over a minute or so, the gas plant will compensate for that by increasing the fuel supply so that the generator will pick up the power required. But the 'immediate' power comes from short-term storage in flywheels connected to generators of the fossil fuel (or hydro-electric) power plants. For the future, when the grid will move to renewable power with grid-level (battery) storage systems, those fossil fuel plants should no longer be needed and with that the flywheel will no longer be used. The replacement however will automatically come from the power-inverters on the grid-level battery systems. Electric power-inverters have very short response times (order of milliseconds) and with the grid-storage batteries that we are going to need anyway, these inverters can easily replace the function of the old fossil-fuel power plant flywheels. So I think that for a future that includes massive (battery, pumped-air, hydro) grid-level storage systems, separate flywheels for grid storage systems are likely not needed, since power electronics on those grid-storage system of the future will take over the function of frequency/phase compensation that flywheels we have today.

[@aaronwangler1463]

The "flywheels" that you're talking about are almost always just spare generators that are ready to take over if another generator fails. Batteries and inverters are not practical replacements.simply too expensive for the benefit gained compared to other methods.

[@brianjonker510]

This is a great drawback to solar power and that burden is placed on conventional plants.

[@D1EA7]

Flywheel plus tidal current in and out. Charge in charge out. Use the current in mechanical and out to charge the flywheels.

[@kylesprogis6682]

What comes to mind about flywheel storage is that it needs to be coupled with something that can store that energy for a long period of time like capacitors for example.

[@Drew_TheRoadLessTraveled]

I loved my Flywheel tin cars and motorbikes when I was a kid. Nice too see them make a come-back.

[@LumenCache]

Carbon nanotube roll reminds me of the print roll for label machines! 😄 Heavy little buggers.

[@Lacquerhead-TX]

CF flywheels in a vacuum were (briefly) used in the datacenter space. They were only useful for holding a DC up for about 30 seconds, which should be plenty long enough to start a diesel generator. I don't see them as a practical alternative for energy storage to chemical batteries (yet).

[@4legdfishman]

New subscriber here! The title caught my eye. Glad I stopped by. I love seeing this stuff! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

[@l0I0I0I0]

TY for sharing! I've looked into making nano-tubes & they are exceedingly difficult to make and expensive.

[@lylek8933]

If they can make them more robust, the best, as you already stated, is using supercaps for storage. Gravity batteries seem to be a better option for now than using flywheels. Just an opinion. Again, until they can figure out a better supercap method, it's gravity batteries to the rescue. Have to have a sufficient way of using gravity of course meaning the space is astronomically much bigger than a flywheel, that is for sure, but at least you don't lose much energy (if at all) from idling. :)

[@acmefixer1]

There may be no losses when a gravity storage system is inactive. But it's not as efficient during its active states. The best "gravity storage" is water in the form of pumped hydro storage, which makes up more than 90% of the total storage worldwide and is a mature technology over 80 years old. There are a lot of inactive open pit mines which could be used for pumped hydro storage.

[@squashduos1258]

Good old SAAB 92 (with a drag coefficient of 0.30) from 1949 had a flywheel. In order to overcome the problems of oil starvation during overrun (engine braking) for the two-stroke engine, a freewheel device was fitted. Different application however.

[@superliegebeest544]

All cars have a flywheel.

[@squashduos1258]

@@superliegebeest544 but not like the Saabs ;-)

[@ryanstowell1]

Very well done.

[@clavo3352]

Amazing good video! Been thinking about this problem since about 1978. What i've come up with; and I'm not an engineer, is a; 20 -100 max RPM, cascading system that uses compressed air and flywheels. Using a variety of flywheel charging means incorporating several kinds of alternate energy conversion means and devices; you charge; a huge, large diameter flywheel to a point where power can optimally be taken off and used to do work. The function of the horizontal tensile strength of the material used to hold the flywheel, is minimized. It reduces that; power lost at idle, factor. Giant Tapered roller bearings in planetary gear configuration support the multi ton concrete and rebar flywheel. Use three or more in consecutive "planned use" configuration.

[@SaveMoneySavethePlanet]

Replacing all Fossil Fuels with Renewable electricity is a great goal, but it’s actually not the first step. The first step will be to get to a “net zero” situation. According to the book Drawdown, we can actually achieve that while still having about 25-30% of our electricity generation come from fossil fuels. This means that the big push for better battery storage doesn’t really need to yield results until around 2035 (which will give us enough time to deploy it by 2050). I bring this up, not because I disagree with this video, but because I’ve noticed that many people seem to use the excuse of “electricity storage isn’t solved yet” in order to delay deployment of our current renewable energy tech. The truth is that our current solar and wind tech is good enough so we need to push hard to deploy it as quickly as possible!

[@derrekvanee4567]

Very valid points I think that's generally the Humans adapt just wait for 250$ oil not far off. Holy comment length thoufh batman.

[@RandomGuy-nm6bm]

What does the author propose. Net zero but 30 percent fossil fuels? Will there be CO2 capture?

[@SaveMoneySavethePlanet]

@@RandomGuy-nm6bm there’s not actually any singular solution. The team zeros in on a top 100 solutions which all contribute in various ways. You can find more info on the by searching for “drawdown solutions”. But here’s the gist of the general categories: - electricity: rapidly deploy current tech with emphasis on solar and wind. - food: cut our levels of meat consumption down dramatically and convert to cooking methods which use electricity - Agriculture: restore soil health by no longer tilling. Use methods like composting, tree intercropping, biochar, etc in order to replace current fertilizer usage - Buildings: aggressively retrofit current buildings with electric appliances, insulation, and smart tech to prioritize energy use. - Land Use: build nature back up in the areas where we’ve destroyed it - transport: switch to electric powered where possible. Drastically reduce the amount of private cars by pursuing mass transit and bicycle transit where applicable - Materials: create more closed loop production processes for key materials. There weren’t any machine carbon capture points which I can remember but there was a lot of carbon capture which would be done by changing our agriculture methods and rebuilding various areas in nature. Hopefully this answered your question.

[@randybobandy9828]

It's not good enough.

[@ec5522]

well done sir, thank you

[@shdwbnndbyyt]

Another possible material is single crystal sapphire whiskers (aluminum oxide)... Currently tested to 10-11 Gpascals with a theroretical for Aluminum oxide of 30 Gpascals... equivalent to te 30 GPascals of carbon nanotubes. they do have the same issue of length as do carbon nanotubes, however they do not have the issue of being burnable.. as they are already oxidized.

[@JorgeLausell]

I was penciling out a design for a flywheel on an E-bike. Clutched in to take the regeneration as well as peddling. Design as an axial generator. Provides an even recharging of the battery, and extra storage while all charged up. Can comfortably be recharge while on a stand.

[@jsbrads1]

Be interesting what kind of gyroscopic forces will result as going straight, turning, tilting the bike for a turn…

[@JorgeLausell]

@@jsbrads1 Yeah. I was wondering about that. I tried sitting on the back of a bike holding a spinning bike tire while a friend rode the bike. They couldn't tell. I'll try riding next time! In a real model though, the flywheel would be in the triangle between your legs rotating in line with you.

[@jsbrads1]

@@JorgeLausell a spinning bike tire isn’t heavy enough, you have two of those spinning already. You need the space for your legs next to the triangle.

[@JorgeLausell]

@@jsbrads1 the flywheel would have to be heavy. I'm thinking there's plenty of room and it would be in a housing, not spinning in the open. You could knock your knees into it, no big deal though, not in the way while pedaling.

[@jsbrads1]

@@JorgeLausell a thin disk? With axis parallel to handlebars?

[@-whackd]

Useful to even out the energy from wind farms

[@kenbellchambers4577]

Thermosyphoning liquid metals such as mercury through a coil to produce electricity was discovered many years ago. This only requires low grade heat to operate, and there is a gigantic amount of low-grade heat currently underutilized. Imagine the heat from road surfaces for example, or roof spaces, hot sides of structures and so on. The metal circulates around and around and there are no other moving parts and it is said to be 55% more efficient than an alternator. I enjoy your explorations so much, thanks.

[@Dominasty]

Even as a kid, I thought flywheel energy storage was the solution for line conditioning (at a mass scale). Turns out, I wasn't too far off. But what I learned from this video: flywheels lose energy very quickly. I had no idea. I thought it maintained it's inertia in a vacuum very well and took months to lose all it's energy. I was very wrong. That's disappointing.

[@robmiller5818]

I did see this concept not to long ago here on KZbin (go figure) but they were talking about using a super cheap material for the flywheel mass....concrete. a cylinder buried in the ground in a vacuum sleeve, I believe using magnetic bearings.

[@cadude145]

When you have the NanoTubes you can make a battery using aluminum that is three times as dense as current batteries under development. This research is ongoing in Australia.

[@rogerarnold5627]

Pretty sure that a standby loss of 3% per hour can be greatly improved. Magnetic bearings in a vacuum are frictionless in mechanical terms. There are ohmic losses in the magnetic bearings, given the way magnetic bearings are commonly implemented. I.e., with electromagnets driven by variable current controlled by feedback from position sensors. But that's a stupid design. There are better options. Permanent magnets positioned to hold the load at its metastable neutral point, stabilized by low drag dynamic levitation with zero force / zero drag at the neutral point. Great for maglev trains also. You could do an interesting video on that.

[@massivecumshot]

I put a 50kW flywheel in an Atlanta data center back in the 90s as a test and I hear it's still operating today.

[@jessstines790]

Here's a free one, ( please put it to good use) Giant magnetic fly wheel, in a vacuum chamber, with a magnetic axel. Surrounded by a mile of copper coils in a ring around the case at a 23° angle, opposite of the earths.

[@lesliegrayson1722]

It would only be cool if they made them for Farmers. Cheap, and available packages. My plan is to not spend money on a fly wheel but to use instead what the power companies us now... water storage. The pumping of water to a higher area during the day from solar or intermittent wind systems during the day mean that water can be stored and then released to power a generator later at night. The system can be an enclosed system (same water used back and forth) So this fly wheel idea (something I thought about 40 years ago) whilst cool may just be a side step in the wrong direction. I cant see how this would have space applications either..

[@EmperorTerran]

good stuff

[@DeanReading]

I love that you explained the physics behind flywheels, but I think you got a little derailed by the gravimetric energy density numbers. The mass of the wheel itself is unlikely to make much difference in the viability of our grid-stabilizing flywheel energy storage system.

[@derrekvanee4567]

Good luck all these wonder solutions. The Cali flywheel bus is so cool though and gyros and rcs flywheel in space are also. Good one as always 2 durp da vinchi, da komrad.

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

THANKS RICKY 🤗👍💚💚💚

[@dewiz9596]

I was surprised at the losses in standby mode. Friction?

[@derrekvanee4567]

I winder too cause with vaccum and high pressure oil, there's sooo little assuming no inductors or magnets drawing.

[@Allhopeforhumanity]

It's nearly impossible to eliminate friction entirely, and there likely is some electromechanical impedance (effectively another form of friction) in the electrical circuit due to the capacitance and inductance which generates a small back EMF to the rotor.

[@everettlwilliamsii3740]

Allhope has most of it, but there is the additional drag of the Earth's magnetic field. In addition, has anybody ever seen an exploded flywheel in a dragster? Such an explosion can literally cut a vehicle in half. You would need almost as much carbon fiber or graphene in the shield as would be needed for the rotor. Also, to get the most out of the flywheel, higher density materials than carbon fiber or graphene would be desirable. Flywheels that are truly efficient need to spin in excess of 100k rpm. Put a little lead in there at 100k rpm, and you could almost go orbital if there were a breakage. As for bearings and oil, you have the wrong idea. These need to be magnetically suspended in vacuum, no bearings at all.

[@badrinair]

3 to 20 % per hour is a number that I did not expect. Even in vacuum sealed chambers if that is the degradation, then it has to be the bearings. But I did once see a research where the wheel was magnetically levetaded for zero friction in a vacuum chamber.

[@MaxMisterC]

Did he just say: " For flywheels to really take off?" Lol. That 💩 sounds real dangerous, to me!

[@josephdykes1820]

Torus, a company out of Utah, has a home model. The entire system, including solar panels, inverters, etc costs around 50K and is supposed to last for 25 to 30 years.

[@lindseyhatfield9017]

My Grandfather built a telephone exchange power system back in the 1930's and they used a 16T flywheel to rotate using an electric motor with a diesel motor as a backup. They had a catastrophic bearing failure and caused the 16T wheel to take off out of the retaining pit, through the wall of the power building and down the street of the town. it ended up in the council hall with no-one hurt, just a lot of damage. needless to say the next ones had a far deeper Pit under them.

[@Clenched.Cheeks]

This story isn’t getting enough attention lmfao.

[@linmal2242]

Hilarious, but it wasn't for them !

[@Clenched.Cheeks]

@@linmal2242 "Oh dear GOD! That giant wheel is headed straight for the pastry shop!"

[@mrmyorky5634]

It's not the only case of bearing failure, In the Textile producing mills of Lancashire and Yorkshire a number of recorded bearing and shaft failures occurred and with Rope Race's or flywheels weighing up to 90 tons the destruction caused was horrendous.

[@etmax1]

There's a lot going for for flywheels in grid storage but I'm really worried about gyroscopic effects in vehicle applications, it could send someone off the road under some conditions.

[@VascoDaGamaOtRupcha]

They could be placed on hinges , like a gyroscope - but it would make the whole contraption bulky.

[@samueleveleigh2767]

personally I think in a near future world where we run primarily off of renewable power and use more traditional methods as a backup even today's flywheels fit the bill for that very short term top up while we get the old generators back online

[@TexusNoe365247]

What about a material like T1000 infused graphene? Could that be a better material to make a flywheel out of? It's tensile strength would (or should) go up by a factor of 10 (theoretically).

[@barracuda861]

How long will the solar panel gov. deals last? Which company would be best for in Michigan? I just purchased a new home and would like to install some panels. Anybody have any advice so I don’t get a raw deal? Thanks in advance.

[@darren100880]

What percentage of a fly wheels output is needed as input to get it spinning up to 50,000 rpm?

[@LostCylon]

With the huge amount of investment and research going into carbon nanotubes for this amazing tech, I think it could also have many other groundbreaking uses, like the long dreamed of space elevator. For lighter worlds like Mars or the Moon, it's already achievable, but to start the dream, we need to begin it here first. Amazing content as always :)

[@jayaroh4378]

Good video!!! One more thing waiting on carbon fiber nanotubes to advance to mass production. Would love to hear about the cost of some of the fly wheels on the grid.

[@jonnyb2532]

'Fly Wheel of Fortune' - Good one Ricky!

[@shintsu01]

to mee it sounds like you want a hybrid power station so that if in the UK everyone starts their kettle you have that flywheel in place to take the surge hit and charge it up again for the next peak of power demand. Have chemical, thermal batteries or like a bit Gravity battery "water?" for the general storage of energy

[@q.e.d.9112]

We all tend to wear the same blinkers when we come to electrical energy storage. We assume that we must get that energy back in the form of electricity or it’s no good for us. But a lot of domestic energy is used to create heat. A box with interior dimensions 2’x2’x2’ filled with sand at 400°C has a total of 33kW.h of above-100° heat. This can be used for space and water heating and could be used to power an absorption type fridge. Of course that box is going to grow quite a bit with sufficient insulation. Contain that sand in a stainless cylinder at 15’ diam x 36’ height and I believe you could make it into a Dewar flask, perhaps 16’x 40’. Monel heating coils would be embedded throughout the sand and heat would be extracted by passing air through pipes also embedded in the medium. Done on a larger scale this could be used for long term, seasonal, energy storage. For example, store 100 cubic metres at 500°C and you’ve got a tad less than 18MW.h of stored heat. Obviously, storing electricity as such is higher quality energy available for more purposes than heating but given the demand for heat, and given the relative simplicity of thermal storage, and its suitability for long term storage then I think there’s plenty of space for its inclusion in the overall mix. In a new build, urban environment a structure the size of an average house could provide winter long heat for a dozen or more solar powered houses using the surplus generated during the summer months.

[@musikSkool]

Full flywheels at sunset is still over half a charge at sunrise, so still useful. Now if only a system that efficient was cheaper than batteries.

[@offgridmgtowhomestead2520]

It's a lot more than 5%. The biggest issue is that cheap power has made people complacent. A lot of things need to change, and you will still need the base-load capacity online to provide the copper base to dissipate harmonics. A mix of renewables and nuclear are the way of the future. I was in the naval nuclear program and operated a reactor on a submarine, and saw what was capable with good operators and stable design

[@toyotaprius79]

How are people complacent when merely consumers of a utility and near damned working their way to pay rent and debts?

[@randybobandy9828]

@@toyotaprius79 because people are living a much more cushy and higher quality of life than any time in human history. Spare me with your outrage.

[@guygordon2780]

Military use is far different from Commercial, where the pressure for profits NOW lead to companies scaling back needed maintenance. That was the cause of the Texas Grid failure in 2021, the BP Deepwater Horizon blowout, and hundreds of other industrial disasters. Second, the problem of long-term storage of nuclear waste is dimply too long-term for the human race. Human lifespan is trivial compared to radioactive waste. We have no experience solving problems with at that time scale. No government or institution has ever lasted long enough to manage this problem. And Third, it's unnecessary. Solar and Wind can generate more than enough power. Stop thinking about huge localized generation and start thinking about localized generation. The benefits of local power generation are tremendous. Energy Security is just one. For less than the cost of the 2nd Gulf War we could have put solar PV panels atop every house in the USA.

[@randybobandy9828]

@@guygordon2780 you are wrong.. We have reactors now that use far more radioactive energy out of the fuel and the half life of the spent rods is in hundreds of years vs thousands.

[@jamesgarrison6430]

@@guygordon2780 solar and wind are more dangerous to the ecosystem and wildlife than nuclear and they aren't nearly as reliable. Nuclear is the cleanest power known to man also they have found ways to deal with the little waste they produce witch is drilling a hole deep under the power planet and putting the wast into sealed cassel

[@Mrjohndful]

How much power does it require to keep a flywheel spun up could it be paired with another storage technique to prevent that loss while not being used? Or is that 3-20% factoring that in? And how are they spun up is it mag lev vacume with magnetic propoltion?

[@ivanostellato9478]

flywheels should be in every light post and every building core .. you need alot o fthem to charge fast and dynamically like surge suppression ... flywheels work as surge guard layer .. with batteries behind them ... flywheels should discharge into Solid state batteries if they wont be used ...

[@roecroes]

Oh, yes, flywheel energy storage is breakthrough. Wiki: "In the 1950s, flywheel-powered buses, known as gyrobuses, were used in Yverdon (Switzerland) and Ghent (Belgium) and there is ongoing research to make flywheel systems that are smaller, lighter, cheaper and have a greater capacity."

[@rbpalmer1]

Why did it take so long? Europe had some buses back in the early 1960's that used a mechanical flywheel arrangement to help with city stop/start driving. When parked overnight, there was usually enough residual spin to start the diesel engine the following morning.

[@johnerickson5183]

I was just thinking about how you could use this for home at about the same time you were saying it’s doesn’t really work for home. I think I would disagree if it’s sized right. I live in Orlando with blazing sun all day. If you charged up flywheel during the day it would be available for the peak loads when everyone gets home, takes hot shower, start cooking, turn up the ac etc. just design it to get over that bump.

[@adrianwilson7536]

You did notice they were putting those under ground so if they failed it wouldn't destroy everything in the area? And no mention of price or the maintaince cost. Cause those units must be monitored to catch problems to avoid failure. It's like why most multi story homes have stairs and not elevators. Just because you could do it doesn't mean it makes sense to on many levels.

[@LetsSeeWhatHappens]

@@adrianwilson7536 Yea, I think you'd still want it in the ground except for the lid. I'm just guessing here but what I pictured was about the size of a small garbage can that sits on mag bearings. The spin up motor and converter are attached to the lid for ease of maintenance and wiring. Again, all guesses, no idea on actual size or cost needed to reduce the 5-8pm bump. Even the length of that bump is a guess.

[@protorhinocerator142]

For mobile storage (cars, trucks, planes, trains, etc.) weight is a big factor. For stationary storage, weight really isn't much of a factor.

[@alexeymalafeev6167]

When a flywheel slows down, I imagine most of the energy is dissipated via friction? Would that not cause heat production, sound and/or material deformation? Assuming the latter is designed around, and the energy losses to sound are negligible, that leaves heat.

[@ccx22]

Another day Another breakthrough on this channel

[@bitflogger]

With flywheels, and other solutions, the fact that there is an existing market, bodes well for the future. Its easy to imaging incremental improvements expanding a market.

[@GreatOldOne]

Williams F1 developed but never used in competition a flywheel energy storage system for their F1 cars. They (and all other teams) ran and still run lithium batteries for their energy recovery systems.

[@philterzian9162]

The flywheels shown are sitting parallel to the earth’s surface, but the earth’s orientation changes 360° every day. How do these flywheels cope with the resultant precession effects.

[@WileHeCoyote]

Interesting! I hadn't thought of that. Maybe they'll hang the whole system from a plumb bob string, watch it go round and round! 😄

[@achpek13]

I feel like it plays a significant role in energy loss

[@LOOGamala]

I also wonder what type of bearings are used? Air layer or magnetic levitation or just standard roller bearings? Also the torque from procession might be able to be converted to power too?

[@achpek13]

@@LOOGamala I'm sure there is no air, no matter contact

[@decommonifyable]

So just to keep your flywheel spinning you're wasting 20% of the energy. Sounds like a solution for a very specific problem. Where power is in excess but it might cut out or you might require a spike in power supply.

[@mpart_woodlathe-stuff]

Wait a minute, I grew up in Delaware near the high point in the state at ~500 feet. Probably land farther away than 5 mi was at 50 feet. Hmm, never mind.

[@dukie1616]

It’s a romantic idea in a Jules Verne kind of way, lol. Sure if CNT can be produced sufficiently for the task then this could be revisited along with the space elevator, which will need big breakthroughs in the same CNT materials.

[@NaokiWatanabe]

There's a pretty big problem with carbon nanotubes though. "In animal studies, exposure to CNTs induced sustained inflammation, fibrosis, lung cancer following long-term inhalation, and gene damage in the lung" - Review of toxicity studies of carbon nanotubes, 2017. Mass production, end of life waste, and recycling would all have to be very carefully managed.

[@mennovanlavieren3885]

So what if one of those wheels comes loose, wreaks havoc and self destructs? Tons of airborne cancer inducing nano dust?🤔

[@derrekvanee4567]

May I add: that arc discharge system making those long carbon Nano tubds I have never seen and that id game changing da komrad! Whats the source?

[@gingernutpreacher]

Can my comment be seen if so lomi????

[@kapytanhook]

It can be seen

[@PierreJut]

So they are sort of gyroscope and want to keep the orientation of their axis... What about resisting precession if they are fixed relative to the ground?

[@thorlancaster5641]

The one big problem with this is the fact that you have 2700 watt-hours per kilogram of fully charged flywheel just waiting to be turned inevitably into thermal energy in the event of an accident. It would be like setting off an underground bomb. Probably wouldn't be an issue if they were sited in remote areas but it would make building an array of them really hard.

[@fillman86]

in grid banks, size shouldn't matter too much, so wouldn't the initial cost be better if they made them out of cheaper slower rpm materials, and just have more? I really want to know more about this

[@terrancel1786]

Whats the news on the mono clinic gama sulfur battery research dude?

[@ivanostellato9478]

a flywheel should start with the mass in the middle .. as it spins moving the massoutward amplifies energy storage .. thys can be done with internal fluidics or moving piston masses ... this will also extend the rotation // charge life

[@simongross3122]

Very interesting idea

[@JohnChapman]

Can't help think that gravity storage might be a better answer. Use excess power to propel a really heavy train up a gradient. When power is needed allow it to run back down and drive a generator as it does. Regenerative braking on a giant scale. When this train is at the top of the gradient it doesn't lose that stored kinetic energy.

[@davocc2405]

Stupid question - could you set up a wind generator (especially those ones that are big enough to run towns) to direct its intake power to one of these things and then generate it at a more civilised speed? I read that they have to keep locking those things for going over-speed, I'm wondering if a solution like this could be integrated to avoid and actually make use of that burst of speed.

[@yvanpimentel9950]

and low wind to,air compressor will solve this and increase the avelavility of power

[@cmilkau]

1:11 Interesting: every new energy source just comes on top, none is ever phased out for a newer one.

[@troygrover6441]

I'm so confused as to why light weight material would make a better flywheel. Maybe it's the difference between that battery looking flywheel and the large diameter style. But that inertia from the weight seems pretty important on the surface to me. especially if you reduce the friction with magnetic bearings. I need to look into this more. Very interesting.

[@jrscott5827]

it sounds good with the icing on the cake would be having these flywheels running together with the sodium sulfur storage battery charging this battery as it stores its power where the spinning type charger can take a break you can drop the RPMs once the sodium sulfur battery is stored up to it's maximum capacity where it drops to a certain point then the gyro spinning unit can kick back in to bring it back up looks like it's kind of like the way a submersible pump pumps the water into a storage holding unit when it drops down a float kicks in that turns on the submersible pump see what I mean 🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐🙏🏾🙏🏾💞

[@sigra4867]

How does it keep the movement going if no energy is coming in?

[@griffithdavey2]

flywheels could even be used to fast charge battery electric cars, with the car rapidly spinning the flywheel up when plugged in, then gradually converting that short term mechanical energy in the flywheel into long term electrical energy in a battery

[@richardgray2706]

Is the electrical energy recovered from the flywheel system really 90% of the electrical energy used to spin it up? I thought the complication of dealing with variable flywheel speeds while providing stable voltage levels would waste more energy.

[@dez7726]

these would be good near solar or wind farms. set them up to charge before peak times and release them as the peak hours demand. say charge them up at 2pm and discharge them from 4-5 while people are getting home and starting everything up.

[@cwt5654]

Could it be possible to power the flywheel with a direct mechanical connection from the turbine?? There would be be no losses over the generator/motor system and all electrical systems could be located on the ground. It would smooth out turbine output in gusty conditions. Probably would introduce other issues, nothing is ever that simple... 😏

[@neozero9929]

Do we have Bearing Technology can last Life time or for long time?

[@allanmarks2150]

I think this is a great idea.

[@jasonbroom7147]

When something seems like a great idea, but doesn't exist, there is usually a very good reason why. In some cases, there is a practical or technical reason why it simply won't work. In other situations, that solution only applies to specific use cases, such as the large sand battery used in Finland to provide heat to a community boiler network. This is only applicable where such networks exist or could realistically be built out. I think the same thing applies to the use of large flywheels; they will never be very common because their use case is too specific.

[@gplgomes]

Is there motor using nitroglycerine as fuel? I think it storages a lot of energy.

[@rwells3376]

Have you ever seen a 2 pound chunk of steel turning at 15k rpm let loose? I have, it went right past me and blew thru a concrete wall. You should have seen the damned thing slamming into everything in the storage room it broke into. I stopped working with flywheels after that. Flywheel tech has been worked on for years, and they have always proven to be too dangerous. Maybe, just maybe, if it were to be used at a large weight, low rpm, for a stationary energy storage. But what about the cost?

[@maryhadda8420]

Large diameter and high mass would help, but high speed helps even more. To guard against damage from catastrophic failure, build them underground.

[@theagentsmith]

When you have lots of stored energy, be it in a flywheel, in a fuel tank or in batteries, it will always have some degree of danger.

[@kapytanhook]

Fat seems pretty safe and very energy dense

[@chriscarlin4907]

Like you said..very dangerous!...

[@pathfollower]

I think that's why they often bury them. Did not realize they loose so much energy in storage mode. I thought maglev bearings and vacuum containers had solved that.

[@fricardo3]

This is the type clickbaityyy thumbnail I am happy to fall for. Ultimately one clicks here knowing it’s gonna be great content regardless

[@jeanpaulchristian3282]

Why not combine gravity and flywheel storage so you get short term and long term storage simultaneously

[@laughingvampire7555]

the problem with flywheels is they all lose their energy in a day. so flywheels can be used to stabilize solar/wind when is intermittent in spans less than half a day. so maybe a during the night wind and flywheel work together, but if it is a still windless weather and long night maybe the flywheel won't be enough. This is why I believe flywheels are better used for peak time get the excess let the lithium battery discharge a bit and then recharge it with the flywheel.

[@MARILYNANDERSON88]

I have great confidence in flywheel kinetic energy storage.

[@mrmyorky5634]

It's certainly interesting, but I haven't as much confidence in it as you have. It's already been tried and some examples are still boldly in use such as on the Stourbridge Junction Railcars. The fact that it's never widely caught on suggests to me that either the advantages are minimal, or that the complications needed to make it work are too expensive or that they in themselves create other problems. In simpler times, Engineers used to have a saying. (If the value that something consumes in it's manufacture, is greater than the value that it returns in it's use, then in practical terms it's a non starter)