Ty & That Guy Ep 024 -

#TheExpanse #ExpanseOnPrime
JAMES CAMERON & THE EXPANSE 210
Ty Franck (one half of James S.A. Corey) & Wes Chatham ('Amos Burton' on The Expanse) talk about their favorite as well as least favorite James Cameron films and discuss The Expanse: Season 2 Episode 10.
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About the #TyandThatGuy Show
Greetings! We are Wes Chatham (Amos Burton on The Expanse) and Ty Franck (one half of James S.A. Corey, author of The Expanse).
Our podcast, Ty & That Guy is a freeform conversation with phenomenal guests about the media, influences, and ideas that inspired not only The Expanse but us as creators.
New episodes are on their way and there are lots of great things in store. Subscribe and stay tuned!
*Subscribe and go to tyandthatguy.com for more info!*

[@qwertyferix]

I'm proud to be one of the 3 people still watching at the end (along with a few hundred others).

[@espalier]

that scene where bobbie gets to the ocean, it chokes me up every time.

[@gillianrosheuvel6750]

I love the man she meets along the way who helps her figure out how to walk.

[@maxidejf]

"When you spend your whole life living under a dome, even the idea of an ocean seems impossible to imagine" - Lieutenant Lopez.

[@DrEsky914]

@@gillianrosheuvel6750 Nico, one of my favorite one scene characters!!

[@KG-1]

This ranks along with Roy Baty's death scene & speech as one of the greatest scenes ever made in a SF piece. Especially, considering the actors IRL heritage.

[@rodentnolastname6612]

I'm surprised. Bobby doesn't take apart the window with a butter knife, she uses her Purple Heart Metal. That was some interesting symbolism as she almost left it on Mars. 🤔

[@CanadisX]

I'll have to second you on that. Additionally she turns some worthless (symbolic and real value) piece of metal into something useful for herself. Like breaking out with the hypocritical to see something that has true value to her.

[@lliammclachlan]

The friendship between Prax and Amos is my favourite part of the series to date it was so well done

[@Jackie4nier]

I agree with Ty about Lynch’s Dune. The affection I have for it is out of scale with the quality of the movie. But my mom would watch it every time it came on, so it’s all tied up in very positive bonding with her, so I love it.

[@Jackie4nier]

Also, I’m in the minority with this but, I didn’t like Avatar. It was beautiful looking, but it was Ferngully mixed with Dances with Wolves and just felt very meh to me.

[@alanpennie8013]

I love it so feverishly. Even those ludicrous final scenes.

[@bobharper7014]

Viewer #3 says that one wants you to dig into the Dune series more. Jodorwosky's Dune gave me great insight into "director's vision" and helped me come to some understanding of what happened to Jackson's left turn away from the books in the "The Two Towers" movie. There were no elves at Helm's Deep (aside from Legolas). Though that is a far cry from Jodorwosky's concept of Paul being immaculately conceived. The sequel of Jodorwosky's Dune would of been even more confusing. This also highlights why I am so very happy that Ty (and Daniel) have a hand on the pulse of the show. IT REALLY SHOWS.

[@C76Caravan]

Yes, like super fan Belinda stated, Shawn Doyle is absolutely killing it in the show... Later in S3 after the speech when Anna dresses Gilles down, he drinks his bourbon(?) and pulls such a perfect small smirk that i missed it the first and second rewatch. Perfect.

[@darrenhardy9005]

Waiting for the Ty Franck butter knife escape room special..

[@REDhlg]

Anyone else interested in the uncut version of these interviews? I feel it's all edited, flower well and I'm confident I didn't miss anything important... But I'm not in a hurry here... I have to wait an entire WEEK to hang out with these guys... Just let the tape roll... Keep it up Ty and Wes!

[@lynettra7818]

The website used to have unedited versions of these convos on the podcast. Hasn't been updated tho.

[@REDhlg]

@@lynettra7818 website? Guess I need to turn in my superfan club card...

[@CielBlanche]

wes giving ty shit about things like the window or havvelock's chest spike are beautiful moments

[@boyanzafirov8868]

I wish there was more talk about this particular episode. I was looking forward to see some of my favorite moments through your eyes.

[@paulscott2037]

This is my only complaint about these guys. I get why they go on their tangents because they have so much love for movies and such but a little more on the ins and outs of what went into the show and the creative decisions there would be nice.

[@Kalmera6238]

Yeah they actually need a host to keep them on topic. I come for the Expanse but it's just Ty and Wes telling industry stories. Not bad but not what I wanted

[@emerraldx]

I love the tangents! 🥰 I think they are able to strike a nice balance most of the time but when they have more behind scenes stories or story choices to share on a particular episode I definitely dont mind, just going with there wasn’t as much extra on this one 🤷‍♀️

[@kleingrrmpf]

Yeah, right? I really wanted them to at least mention that Bobbie is scared by the bird flying by... I think this is just such a wonderful little detail because she just isn't used to things flying through the air (even though I don't know what the animal situation is on Mars). But this little detail is so great because the is scared of the bird an then tumbles and falls down the roof.

[@shanepye7078]

“Guuuuump! I hats your sole purpose in the MCRN?” “To do whatever you tell me drill Sargent”

[@CanadisX]

It was the purple heart, not a butter knive, if I remember correctly

[@davids4610]

Me too, I so love David Lynch's Dune - a flawed masterpiece

[@EMSBoys]

I also love the Lynch version and Jodorowsky's Dune, but they are very specific tastes. You have to roll with the weird!

[@lmamakos]

That wasn't a butter knife; it was really a sonic screwdriver in disguise.

[@maldavis369]

Prax was shipped off the station while he was in a coma so he didn't even have a choice on leaving. And Terminator vs Aliens is a hard choice. They're both so good but in different ways. It's a tie for me because I love them both.

[@RGCLAYTV]

#6 Still watching! (Love you guys!)

[@Greydt]

Former Viewer #42 here (left due to Ty & Wes' lack of a deserved reverence for Clint) - being forced to watch and answer due to a Saw-type imprisonment: voting (1) Aliens, (2) Terminator, (3) Terminator 2

[@andrewl5272]

I look forward to this podcast every week, and I tell all my super-nerd friends about it. I appreciate you. #6SeasonsAndAMovie

[@captain_britain]

D'you think a movie might actually happen, or is this just wishful thinking for now? Personally, I'd love to see the end of the story adapted as a film trilogy

[@emerraldx]

That would be incredible 🙏

[@bartschaap6236]

@@captain_britain In a previous podcast Ty said that he didn't like movies as a way to adapt books because they where too short or something similar

[@Nixxomatic]

@@bartschaap6236 He is right. Can you imagine Breaking bad as a standalone movie, or Game of Thrones. It would be a disaster compared to the tv show.

[@bartschaap6236]

@@Nixxomatic I unfortunately have to admit I haven't watched either of those

[@timcotton1782]

Wes, I served 21 years in the Navy, and there's a good chance we sailed the same waters in the 80s. I was aboard the Constellation, and the Belleau Wood was our "Gator Freighter" for parts of two deployments. To speak to Ty's comments @24:18, and specifically the scenario he puts forth @27:46 about "Casualties of War", here's the thing: Conscience and integrity outweigh "brotherhood" with no questions asked, no contest. A shipmate commits a crime, I don't have any conflict about turning him in. His actions have forfeited Loyalty, and Honor demands Justice. I never had to struggle with which was the right thing to do.

[@LordOfNihil]

depends on the window. i helped a guy i know replace his windows, and the only things holding it is place was a small strip of wood and an absurd quantity of silicone caulk. you might have a harder time with prefab window frames. i figure you could rip it off with a pry bar and a box knife.

[@Doubleelforbes]

Wes ..... I love you brother, but I did the same window trick from the outside with a flatblade screwdriver. A butter knife would've done, the seal comes out in a oner just like oor Bobby did it. And you can definitely catch a double glazed pane of your height and up to 1.5-2x your width.

[@snarkyretort5229]

Ty is so down to earth, he drinks out of a mayonnaise jar just like mom used to make.

[@EMSBoys]

Babylon 5 has an episode revolve around Sheridan examining the "Chain of Command" when EarthGov issues some of those suspect orders.

[@kinggoten]

good episode, mind you that majority of B5 past the 1st season is great. the one your talking about would of been like the head of the fbi giving a army general orders or something like that he has to pass it down the correct chain

[@500Prozac]

You guys rock, also Shawn Doyle was fantastic every scene he was there

[@charlesbeaudry3263]

Frank is correct about the window seals.

[@oksana92401]

Probably, my favorite moment season 2 episode was Prax and Amos talk about cascade. I'm just reading remember this moment in book I got chills 😊✌️ This show make so emotional.... This powerful and deepest show I've ever seen ever!! 📚🎧 Thank you so much! 🤗🙏💐

[@patrickc1981]

There was a mention of the conflict within military personnel to follow orders while also disobeying illegal orders, with the focus on combat situations. I can say this is why military members, I most Western forces, are issued 'Rules of Engagement', or ROEs, to prevent such incidents. ROEs are effectively a list of instructions detailing how and when force can be employed, and at what level. If a superior gives an order that violates the ROEs, the order is illegal, and can be challenged. In practical terms, the subordinate will often suggest an alternative Course of Action (COA).

[@tracymetherell8744]

Building the story and doing the set up is worth it every time. The depth of these slower scenes, the acting, is SO powerful. Some of the best character development and acting in the series is in this episode.

[@KristaErickson11717]

I'm with Wes...😊👍 1. Terminator 2. Aliens 3. T2 ...all GREAT movies, but I agree with Wes. I got your back, man...😎

[@jamesholland5761]

One movie that comes to mind related to what Ty was talking about when discussing the moral dilemma of soldiers told to shoot unarmed villagers. The movie "Lone Survivor" the soldiers decided not to kill the goat herders but in turn that's was signing their death warrants.

[@IanHillan]

Sorry, Wes, but it's Aliens, then Terminator. Great show, guys.

[@tmmartinesq.6216]

I loved Prometheus the film. ( Didn't like the sequel). Ty talks about the visual flair of Lynchian Dune, Prometheus featured same.

[@miller-joel]

I can't believe James Cameron was not a surprise guest here.

[@shaun906]

we once had a burglary at our house, they took the putty out the window in the kitchen and took the whole glass pane out ...

[@BrunoBarata78]

Oh you are 100% woke Ty. And as much as I usually don't care for that, I 100% respect you. Because unlike most "woke" people, I believe you have an incredible insight about human nature and nuance. It's all over The Expanse. To me The Expanse is not only the best Sci-Fi show around probably ever, but it's also a beautiful portrait of human interaction, with beauty and ugliness and grey. If The Expanse is a woke show, it's definitely wokeness done right, which is more than can be said for so many shows and movies being done now a days. In Short... Big Fan!

[@peternordgren]

That's all very interesting but what did James Cameron use to break into the editing room?

[@christopherschroeder4096]

Once again, Babylon 5 shows a vivid relevance far ahead of its time with two central aspects of the discussion: 1) Great board-setting episodes. B5 essentially introduced the concept to science fiction and possibly network television in general. Signs and Portents comes in the very first season and contains absolutely critical long-arc information disguised as what looks like a one-off mystery. I was drawn into The Expanse as a show because we get that same style of letting the audience take a breath every so often. Rising and falling action should look like waves, not a constant upward ramp. 2) The Inherent Military Contradiction: This forms an entire central arc of B5 that not only fuels a massive civil war but also the drama and challenges in rebuilding brotherhood and trust afterward. The loyalists contained both detestable war criminals and staunch advocates of a controlled military while the separatists contained both actionable people of character and pure opportunists. And seeing the after is just as rewarding. Everyone has to move forward while still redressing wounds from the war. And I love how Bobbie's story presents a microcosm of that same struggle through to its endstate: she's never fully re-accepted by her peers in S3 and she is struggling with purpose in S4 now that she doesn't have an enemy to fight. - Sequels so different from the original: Pitch Black (horror) to Chronicles of Riddick (action).

[@RobertKenny9001]

Prax & Amos are my favourite characters in the series, maybe Elvi too - we'll see how her arc ends.

[@ptonpc]

Finally catching this one. Thanks guys!

[@loreuniversechannel9984]

EXCELLENT discussion.

[@kasperhansen5430]

Window scene is plausible, I did it with a screwdriver on our cafeteria door window as the electric lock broke, the security box for the lock was on the inside, no-one knew where the mechanical key was and there were 100 hungry ppl. who needed to eat lunch. I'm telling you Wes, desperation and fear for the angry mob with pitch forks and torches will provide the needed creativity! 🤯

[@JorgenLundman]

When Wes goes on about windows.. "future window!" "Too heavy for Bobby" "Future window is lighter!" "Can't be opened with butter knife!" "future window has butter knife release latch!" (Fire safety has easy-to-remove windows, at least in this country). Aliens gets my vote. Love me some timetravel, but Aliens resonates more with me.

[@jasonyoung5628]

I always maintain that if Jodirowsky had made Dune it would be one of those odd 70s movies like Zardoz or Phantom of the Paradise. I'd like it, but it would have taken decades to get any traction.

[@dj-kq4fz]

As one of the 6 proud listeners (and a guy who has installed a number of windows over the years), I don't think I've seen a window like Ty describes. There's usually nails, channels, etc. to keep them from falling out. Not saying it didn't happen, Ty seems like a standup, non-hyperbolic kind of guy, but I'd think it would be a very antiquated type of window. Thanks guys! Dave J

[@gironaflyingpiggy5657]

Windows are not held in by much. You could remove the seal and take out the window. I ordered a couch once and we couldn't get it into the room we wanted. The delivery guy offered to take out the window to get the couch in that way. I declined. It's a huge window. I ain't got time for that.

[@jamesdouglas6977]

Yes Bobbie could have taken the window apart because she knows how to take apart her power armor.

[@timothysheetz2335]

Why is Wes waterboarding Ty about the window? Lol

[@shanepye7078]

Also, if use to do windows in houses and buildings. You’d be surprised how easy it is to pop them out

[@tommc3622]

Mad Max 2 (The Road Warrior) was another sequel that surpassed the original with a different tone. And don't worry, you two could be talking about dishsoap and it would be entertaining. :)

[@jerrylovelight]

Made it to the end. It's frankly never boring. A housemate was in listening distance and commented she has heard me watching before and has found you guys interesting, and she's never seen the show. (Ty>Wes, but then she hasn't actually seen Wes.) Aliens>Terminator. The real question is most iconic line. I'm still going Aliens with Bill Paxton's "It's over man" to Terminator's "Come with me if you want to live" and "I'll be back". Yours very truly, #4

[@altersja]

One thing not discussed was the long versions of Cameron's movies. I think it's worth mentioning because he has the best long versions of anyone. The uncut Aliens is better, IMO, with a deeper relationship with Newt. The long cut of The Abyss is a whole different movie - and way better.

[@nickspanoudakis6776]

i just listen to this podcast to get takes on movies. I never knew there was a whole documentary of the Foss artwork for Dune. That documentary is fantastic

[@boyfromoz7]

Loved the Dune and Lynch conversations... considering logging off about the time of the window and glass removal :-)

[@Bisham0ntenno]

I'm just catching up, but I put my vote behind Aliens. Part of what made it so good was because it WAS a sequel. Having watched Alien many many times, and watching a single alien take out an entire crew, increased the impact of Aliens when there are HUNDREDS of them. So good!

[@rostikskobkariov5136]

I love these. I’m sad there getting shorter.

[@jonathanf4082]

I thought the window was designed to keep people outside from coming in, not people inside from escaping. It's not a prison.

[@artboymoy]

I'm pretty sure office building windows can be replaced from the inside, so it would stand to reason she could do it.

[@daxeah8472]

Yall have forgotten about the scifi channel's mini series of Dune. This episode is one of my favorite of season 2. I love learning more about Bobbie and Amos!

[@HisameArtwork]

I'm not nr 8 but I'm happy to be enjoy the content that you two make. Thank you for your time and free podcast. I'm listening as I'm doing some solar punk game art for a client.

[@johncnorris]

I'm one of the regular 6 viewers.

[@monsterinhead214]

You are Number 6. I am Number 2.

[@DBStarr7]

Ty - Lynch Dune = It has great mood! Did a great job of translating the mysticism of the book to the screen.

[@JosephMannJr]

100% Ty's comment about Lynch's DUNE.

[@Hoss4Blues]

Nice backdrop Wes!

[@krysk3753]

Oh man, that bouncing Alien Queen gives me the chills! Thanks for another great episode and fuel for chat for us at The Expanse Geeks Facebook group!

[@scottevans1532]

Great stuff guys got loads of new movies to watch now like dune. Love the show and books. Amos needs his own show

[@estherstrek4796]

I am a few minutes behind... Wes, that 'can I tell them what happens at the end of season 6' tripped me out. Don't toy with us! I am waiting until after this season to proceed with the books. I can barely stand it.

[@captain_britain]

I respect your perseverance... I started the books in late May and I'm halfway through book 8 now 🤐

[@estherstrek4796]

@@captain_britain - I almost start book 6 on a weekly basis.

[@davidrossbach1578]

Don't forget the cat. Jonesy was also in both.

[@lynettra7818]

Hi Sirs. I missed my bell for this epi. Won't happen again. You'll have 10 viewers next time. Promise :)

[@davidschleifer9015]

If I'm the last one watching, do I get a set of steak knives? Lol

[@mikebuck6126]

im a glazier. the window removal is highly unlikely but possible. love the show

[@marsupio6207]

I got locked out of my aunt and uncles house while watching my cousins when I was a teenager. I was able to get in a window without even a knife as a teenage girl, so I think Bobbie could get out the window if her bad ass self wanted to. Also the top three list for me is Aliens, T2, Terminator. I detest True Lies, I hated it at the time it came out.

[@robertcavanna789]

I saw True Lies in the theater with my Arab friend. And he was not totally thrilled.

[@DaniO01]

Ty & Wes I agree with part of your list. 1. Avatar 2. Terminator 2 3. Aliens. I like James Cameron, but my complaint against him is that Yes the environment is our most important resource! Put your money where your words are! Buy a rain forest, fix it, film there and then keep it protected! I'd live there and maintain it for as long as I live. No money needed as long as I have clean air, clean water,, clean food and clean housing. Sorry for my tangent... I like when you talk movies, but more talk about the episode would be appreciated!

[@robertholquist627]

Thank you gentlemen. Another great installment.

[@davidrossbach1578]

Salvador Dali as Emperor with soundtrack by Pink Floyd

[@frednunziata5]

wes is all about the window lol can't get over how that's possible lol ive broken in to my house as a kid without anything lift the window out (two piece sliding, side basement windows) legit how I snuck out as a 15/16 yr old lol

[@desanc33]

Clearly Ty has great taste and objective thought by proclaiming Aliens as a top ten movie overall in the history of cinema

[@bobbycampos6576]

Ty wins this one hands down! Aliens is one of the absolute best movies ever made! And don’t forget it also was the creative catalyst for the ever popular Halo franchise which to me is also the greatest of all time. Terminator is very very special and T2 is meh but Aliens no can defend! Only Big Trouble in Little China and Krull are on par. 😁😎😜

[@MarkEmeryPhotography]

I’ll gladly take the label “8 the late.” Back and catching up.

[@remo8938]

Love your show!

[@OffRampTourist]

The only other exoskeleton equipment that works for me is in Edge of Tomorrow / Live Die Repeat. That and The Expanse, especially the last episode, I mean. I'm always comparing this stuff to what Heinlein wrote in Starship Trooper

[@DrEsky914]

Haha! I think like Ty! My first thought of a different sequel was Empire Strikes Back! totally different!

[@Sleazyslacks]

Terminator > Aliens Completely cemented by that final shot of Terminator with the chairoscuro/subtle metatphor storm coming in, done over an electric rendition of the main theme. Best movie ending of all time. Viene la tormenta!

[@tgv1138]

Getting in here late. Power & internet was out yesterday. But I have to say, I could talk Dune ALL Day! :)

[@gillianrosheuvel6750]

When I was a kid, my family and I got locked out of our house. They had me climb through an (open) window to open the door. No butter knives involved, though.

[@meganhartmann180]

When I saw the title for this episode, I was so stoked!! I thought, "Oh, wow!! They actually convinced THE James Cameron to be a guest on the show!!" Sadly, my hopes were dashed. Lol. Still, it would be killer to have Mikael Salomon on the show. Would love to hear his stories about shooting "The Abyss" and his other work.

[@08samere]

The Abyss should be number 4 on best list

[@Kalthos85]

“My favorite director is Ridley Scott, and I can easily pick three of his movies I don’t like” and three of those movies are Blade Runner Bah-dum-COLD-BLOODED

[@theblanklogo]

For the record, the correct answer is: Aliens!

[@ericcoskun1]

Dune (Lynch version) was a mess, but oh what a glorious mess, to date one of my all time favorite movies. I watch it once a year every year since it came out.

[@jeechun]

And the soundtrack of it.. Such a masterpiece of Toto.

[@ericcoskun1]

@@jeechun absolutely

[@professorhelmling6059]

Now. They are not making it clear that you have to watch-and only watch-the extended version of Aliens. (Ty called it a master class. For the record, I wrote a paper on the screenplay for my masters degree.)

[@TheCognient]

Another good episode!

[@JockoJonson17]

The off topic stuff is great too. 👍👍

[@00Glitch]

Garry Hoy a lawyer from a Toronto based law firm accidentially defenestrated himself out of a window on the 24th story of the Toronto-Dominion Bank Tower building at TD Centre. Holden had developed a fondness for the tensile strength of office building windows. While demonstrating this to coworkers, after running at and bouncing off several windows, one popped out of it's frame and sent him tumbling 24 stories to the courtyard below. Confirmed on Snopes. Source is also Snopes. So could a determined martian marine pop out a 5th story (?) window using a variety of improvised tools (the episode showed other damaged items)? Absolutely. It wasn't a prison cell. Just an embassy apartment. Don't test your windows Wes! They'll let you down!

[@WMagdziuk]

I don't know if they read these but I think a great guest for this show would be Jefferson Mays the narraratpr of the audio books.

[@tearstoneactual9773]

The window thing is veeeeery plausible/possible. I've done similar when having to repair a window.

[@fadams32]

Scene with his admission is one of the better scenes in the show

[@uiuiuiseraph]

Totally share your opinion about all 3 dune movies. And I am soo glad, that Jurdurowskis dune did not get made. He would have made dune rediculous. But it is still the most influencial movie, that did not get made, ever.

[@prefabeconomics459]

Bobby actually used her military medal to break the rubber seal after many attempts with the shitty cutlery turned to scrap. She obviously took to the anti muscle fatigue drugs , maybe she double dosed lol

[@BeckerFlag]

Need to put Ridley and Cameron in context. Ridley has done far more movies so he's had more chances to wiff it. Cameron has done 2 movies in like 25 years. He is awesome though.

[@beneisen6982]

Every version of Dune has had weird stuff and that's part of it's appeal I think. I'd go with Aliens, but Terminator is very close.