Tyler Hamilton: Officials covered for Lance Armstrong

[@higherresolution4490]

Fantastic interview. Many thanks to both Tyler Hamilton and, obviously, to Grham Bensinger. Both are class acts. Great insights for those of us who aren't on the inside of this sport.

[@WanderleiSilva29]

Greatest hair ever assembled on a human.... Beautiful...

[@sickboy3636]

The guy is a grade A douche bag. His hair is the perfect bow on top of this pile of kitten shit.

[@ChopStickZero]

and you have an argument for that assumption or just being a d1ck ?

[@sickboy3636]

@KevinLG......AGREED

[@mickeymelendez1605]

🤣🤣🤣

[@ignitione]

he let his hair grow long in order to cover his jumbo ears which obviously he's not comfortable with

[@einsteindarwin8756]

This channel is so good. What a great role model for kids struggling overcome competition at any cost.

[@johnnoh5832]

The UCI have done so much damage to cycling, they could have stopped Armstrong at his first Tour win instead of covering up his positive test they should never be allowed near drug testing.

[@abone2pick]

If u some was offering you millions to keep a secret you would most definitely keep it

[@wvu05]

@@abone2pick Or, you do the thing that you are actually supposed to do.

[@horse-4598]

@timmy 2lwksc2rbarrios shit offering me thousands and I’ll keep a secret

[@danielingersoll2454]

World's closest interview.

[@juanitadudley4788]

Pre social distancing.

[@danielingersoll592]

@@juanitadudley4788 yup. at 3:40 they are on top of each other. i always liked tyler.

[@snook3032]

lmao!!!!

[@arthurradley5372]

The UCI does and has always acted soley to promote the personal agendas of its members, regarless of the negative cost to cyclists and cycling. From their blatant repression via constant and absurd rule changes against cyclist like Graeme Obree to their selective enforcement of rules for/against specific riders and teams, they constantly demonstrate the corruption ramapnt in their orginization.

[@joesmith6090]

Armstrong: "Ty, my blood test came back... it was positive, I have full blown EPO. You might want to get tested too, sorry babe."

[@2Phast4Rocket]

Even before Lance was banned and stripped of his seven TDF titles, the more I read about Lance Armstrong then, the more I disliked the man. Now after watching all of these interview videos of Lance's former teammates, I found that I am correct.

[@lynyrdskynyrd9742]

The way the asshole attacked people and attempted to ruin them was what made me enjoy his fall. As Tyler Hamilton says here, doping was pervasive, but Armstrong is one complete schmuck who used his celebrity power to destroy people, the worst being little people. I give David Walsh credit for exposing this POS.

[@dc8890]

​@@lynyrdskynyrd9742 Couldn't be more right. But the doping is of course still bad too, not least because they constantly lied to the entire world, claiming they were clean, when it was all a crock of shit. Others in the peloton, like Christophe Bassons, wanted to ride clean and not cheat. But their careers were effectively destroyed by cheaters.

[@lukegrady5357]

That’s what it takes to be a winner, you wouldn’t know

[@patrickm8445]

@@lukegrady5357 ?

[@mcfly3510]

I am 26 years in amateur cycling now. After his comeback fighting cancer I said to my coach that I think it's something wrong with the performance of Lance Armstrong. When people discussed with me over professional cycling I always repeated my statement. Lasted a few years to prove me right.

[@superman1983100]

They look like the most uncomfortable chairs ever 😂

[@sabrina.natalie]

Lol. I agree!

[@thyslop1737]

Amazing the number of sycophants who still worship Lance with the preponderance of witnesses and his own confession..

[@higherresolution4490]

Maybe they're not sycophants, but instead they're prurient neoliberals for whom ethics are off the table.

[@thyslop1737]

@@higherresolution4490 Sort of like when you open your car door and unbeknown to you someone has left a disposal diaper in the parking lot and as you step out of the car you slip and fall on the disposal diaper, which should be in the trash can and not left in the parking lot? Instead of cursing the parents for their insolence you hesitate and say to yourself, "maybe the baby did it". Is this the metaphor you are striving for?

[@higherresolution4490]

@@thyslop1737 Yes, very well expressed.

[@BizInTheFrontPartyInTheBack]

As an amateur cyclist myself and a big fan of the world tour, I’m pretty convinced that: A) doping is still a legitimate issue, especially at amateur levels; and B) the governing body of world cycling, UCI, is as corrupt or more so than FIFA. It’s pretty bad, but we kinda just accept it.

[@jasegmoney9542]

Wow, didn’t know lance only finished 1 out of 4 TDF’s before he won 7 in a row. His body physiology must complement the epo really well. I remember him saying in an interview he did 495 watts up a 30 min climb and he weighed 72 kg. That’s crazy! He also said he could’ve held that for longer. That’s like going full out on a climb for 30 mins straight and having no lactic acid build up.. I’m a big fan of Cadel Evans cause he actually looks like he’s hurting out there and he’s had so many crashes and bad luck. Lance hardly had anything happen to him for 7 years straight. The way he climbed with that high cadence was breathtaking and almost looked to good to be true, and it was.

[@BanjoLuke1]

Dont be too easy on Evans. He was a wonderful rider and I remain a fan.... But he was "discovered" by Dr Ferrari. Evans was excellent on an MTB and probably better on a road bike.... And he had way too much contact with way too many dodgy people. Grimacing doesn't mean you're clean.

[@Maverick5588]

very good interview

[@dumbleduke4225]

I agree I used to think okay what’s the big deal we know the majority of competitors are taking EPO, it’s an even playing field but I feel he gives some insight into how even when doping it isn’t necessarily an even playing field

[@wvu05]

In the middle of reading his book (got it from the library), and I just got to the point where Tyler Hamilton beat Asteriskstrong at a tune-up to the 2000 Tour. Hamilton became a marked man at that moment, because Asteriskstrong knew that if he ever wanted to lead a team, he could beat him.

[@ATLCane]

Lance was such a d bag bully. Some of the shit he did was just unreal. I know people can change but thinking he’s a completely changed man now is just ridiculous. He’s still a scum bag who is just sorry he got caught

[@0-Elias-0]

The "everybody's doing it" notion is so pervasive. Even though I really don't like drug use in sports, I have to ask myself if there's a sport in which drug use is non-existent.

[@stillnessinmovement]

there is. most children's leagues are dope free. otherwise, I don't think there is a pro sport that is not plagued by PED.

[@User-nu6km]

Auto racing

[@therottenrook]

Ping pong, darts, bowling and maybe chess if you don't count alcohol.

[@navylaks2]

snooker ;) lol

[@peterwest5525]

@@therottenrook "Ping pong" ( table tennis ) is a dynamic sport, which requires high levels of fitness. Do not class it with games like darts, bowling and chess.

[@stephanieanderson1701]

they should just split the race into the drug race and the no drug race.

[@treygray2817]

Stephanie Anderson how would you ensure the no drug race is clean. the tour now is theoretically a no drug race, and we all know how well that works

[@stephanieanderson1701]

Likely it wont. But at least if we have a drugs race we can know nobody used drugs to cheat, and maybe develop better performance enhancing drugs in the process.

[@MA_808]

Cortisone micro-dosing has been part of pro cycling before any of this happened.

[@higherresolution4490]

Seriously? I'm not being critical, just that I've never heard of this. Biochemically, it makes little sense since cortisol, hence cortisone, is a catabolic, sympathetic nervous system hormone. Oh ... now I get it. It's to counteract inflammation. Right? Wow, the downstream physiological events would be nasty, especially for an athlete.

[@InconvenientFactz]

This video is why I absolutely hate lance. It’s one thing to cheat, it’s another to prevent others from doing what you are doing. Shows no moral code or any sense of FairPlay. The fact that he used his influence at UCI to scare others is just despicable. I hope people bully Lance for the rest of his life like he did to others in his years of power.

[@pcm9969]

Like many, I was fooled by Armstrong. Many seem to focus on simply the EPO. They say that everyone did it, but Armstrong just got caught. As you said though, Armstrong is a lowlife. It's one thing to try to get an edge, but the bullying, intimidation and extortion (threatening to tell of Lemond's sexual abuse for example) is the stuff of true scum. To this day, I don't think Armstrong shows any signs of remorse.

[@masstwitter4748]

See the Floyd Landis with same interviewer for more on Lance’s behavior

[@pcm9969]

@@masstwitter4748 I did. Excellent interview. I realize Hamilton was in the mix, but have always like the guy.

[@InconvenientFactz]

@@pcm9969 if you are into this, I recommend The Secret Race. It’s an incredibly absorbing account of what went down at US Postal, how the athletes put their lives on the line to win the Tour and the devastation Lance caused. On some level, you actually end up sympathizing with Lance because he was screwed so badly in his childhood. My takeaway was that they should allow everyone to dope legally to avoid blood mixing issues and the advantages one can get when they can afford a private plane like Lance could.

[@pcm9969]

@@InconvenientFactz I'll check it out. On the other side, I would check out Slaying the Badger. I was always a fan of Lemond and maybe he was naive thinking that Hinault would help him, but the documentary showed the incredible forces working against him. His owh team manager was undermining his success and the paranoia he had to experience worrying about sabotage of his equipment or tampering with his food or drink makes me respect him even more. Imagine what he could have accomplished if he had a team that supported him and of course minus the hunting accident in his prime.

[@Prioritypost]

"easier than... uhh.... other modes of transport" hahahaha

[@fanda6122]

4:52 for anyone who says "just let them dope" or "everyone was doing it"

[@gustav4317]

This whole story of lance feels like watching criminal minds or so..😂

[@higherresolution4490]

Not criminality-apart from the appearance-but rather magaglomania, just like yesteryear's tennis star, Jimmy Connors and a few of the "great" NBA stars over the years.

[@mickeymelendez1605]

More like the mafia 🤔

[@Kidgloves1984]

I wonder if there was any team that wasn't using PED's before and during the Lance tour years..Miguel Indurain won 5 tours straight, I wonder if he doped also..

[@sevenrats]

Indurain doped.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

He was the kingpin of Omerta, the close circle of Spaniards that doped massively. They don't talk to outsiders about the experience.

[@Kidgloves1984]

I wish they would investigate him and others in his era..

[@sevenrats]

@@Kidgloves1984 Why bother? Notice how quiet he is about it? They were all doing something then. It is what it is.

[@Kidgloves1984]

To hold every doper accountable and not allow those who use/used performance enhancing drugs to get away with it without being investigated and punished..

[@johnford5568]

I would say the Tour should ditch UCI sanction but the Tour is probably rotten also, no honor is sight, up and down, left and right, forward and back. Enjoy your local amateur riding and just stay there. That aside, it is intriguing how money and connections get you to out-dope everyone else, how this trick and that timing makes the difference and there's always someone out there who knows about them.

[@CoolInOlympia]

Tyler and his wife are heroes!

[@michaelhanley2578]

CoolInOlympia his wife’s a bitch they’d be nobodies without lance

[@garethhancock8525]

@@michaelhanley2578 lol

[@Sobchak2]

@@michaelhanley2578 can't you see he got that wrong. He was referring to Frankie and Betsy Andreu, you are so ignorant about this subject that you insulted people you don't even know. TH is not married, he split with his wife in 2008.

[@lszujo73]

valid point

[@JackThomas-t4m]

Nice wig. Wear did you get it

[@cspartacus716]

It's "Tours de France" not "Tour de Frances."

[@kittycat6195]

Tyler is gorgeous. Dang!!!

[@thyslop1737]

There is NO WAY Lance pulled off this scam by himself there was just too much money involved not to look the other way. Lance now a two bit has been.

[@sickboy3636]

And you're a two bit never was. How does it make you feel that you'll never win at anything. That your life has never amounted to anything significant and your mark on this earth means nothing because of how insignificant your life has been. Its gotta be depressing to be that insignificant of a person and have that worthless of an existence.

[@thyslop1737]

sickboy3636 I feel great that I do not cheat to remain relevant. When I speak people listen because I have carved a narrow path without shortcuts. Honor and integrity were prized virtues at one time, not any more. On the other hand, you serve and worship a celluloid hero propped up by the media like he was some sort of God. If he walked in the room, I suppose, you would get a hard on and faint. You are pathetic. Look at your hero now. A complete joke.

[@tomothybahamothy]

@@sickboy3636 I hope you're not as bitter and ignorant these days!

[@zaahierstanley955]

Be consistent... Where is Lance fair opportunity? Interview Lance as well... Tyler is a doper and many times...

[@slimgpd]

Why? He lied for a living. Why would anyone believe him?

[@zaahierstanley955]

The interviewer is a hypocrite! Why don't he get Lance on this show? He gives Tyler a chance who was over dosing on drugs and got court twice. He got found out and he was doping on another team... Tell us about your own doping program and stop talking about lance...

[@ONCEuponAtime999]

how dumb you have to be make a comment like this. Lance armostrong would never make an interview like this . Lance never came with the whole truth !

[@garymcaleer6112]

Ole Bill Burr said it best: "Our roided-up guy beat your roided-up guy."

[@SJM6791]

I don’t see why it’s a big deal if ALL of them are doing it.

[@TheMrbc74]

Because they are taking jobs and livelihoods from clean athletes who refuse to dope

[@euanwalters8246]

Because then instead of it being about who is the best cyclist, it becomes about who responds to the drugs best.

[@KidFury27]

All you have to do is look at the roster and staff for the 93 Subaru Montgomery team... The masterminds are there...

[@Rvdecwthug]

Are you talking American Masterminds in the sport like Jim Ochovitz and Chris Carmichael, amongst them on this team that you are referring to?

[@KidFury27]

@@Rvdecwthug Dude if you can't make out the former head of USAC, a team owner, a vital EVP at shimano, his money man, and his agent then you need to study up. That team was stacked with the industry's next top level brass and they all protected themselves when the chips fell. The first person Floyd contacted when he wanted to blow the whistle was the first to turn their back...pictured.

[@itscrimmy2348]

Doping put these guys on the map

[@chadrathbone]

When did Lance get a private jet? Can't find a year. I remember Robin Williams talking about loaning his private jet to the lance's team.. I wonder if they were using Robin?

[@Floatillyboats]

Wtf are you talking about??

[@chadrathbone]

To both of you morons.. I was questioning the statement with comedy . But it only works if there is some truth. Lance and Robin were friends. Robin and lance bragged about using private jets of friends like robin. So it’s an easy way to transport peds.

[@roko650]

Lance was usinf private jet from Nike. I think I read that somewhere

[@okyouknowwhatever]

Lots of big name athletes had private jets back then. Golfer Payne Stewart famously died while crashing in his. Fellow golfer Jesper Parnevik a while after this happened sold his own jet and said in an interview sometime afterwards that he regretted having bought one because it swallowed so much of his money.

[@mminder]

Everybody who says "they are all roided up anyway!" should watch this video

[@TehPwnererer89]

This guy is a lance hater. He knows lance would have won anyway. He then gives the example before the 99 tour. Yea he was racing with a sickness and with cancer eventually. Doping is 10% more beneficial. The most important part is your body and training.

[@jasrod2012]

This guy is pretty high on himself. Twice as doped as Lance in 2004 and all he could manage was top 25. Don’t even mention him in the same sentence as Lance/m. He’s previously mentioned Lance only being able to manage top 30s when not on dope. He forgot to mention that everyone else was on dope when Lance rode top 30 clean. He isn’t fit to lick Lance’s boots.

[@phtorres45]

WE seriously need PED accepted races separate from total natty races. and the top 10 winners from each can race for the overall champion.

[@johngoodell2775]

exactly he was not a climber ...then suddenly he is dropping Pentani. huh. There is prob no other sport where doping can give you more of % advantage . There is a 2% difference in overall time between the slowest and fastest rider in the tour. EPO or blood doping can provide a 10% advantage. That is unprecedented.

[@lszujo73]

the same thing is happening in tennis with Nadal....just because everybody is doping it's not an even playing field...the guy perfectly proves my long held suspicion...

[@surfinDelMar]

Laszlo Szujo I've heard that about Nadull. What have you heard?

[@michaelwest7603]

Nadal is showing all the physical hallmarks - it is now happening in most sports at the elite level - fuelled by the huge prize and sponsorship money on offer, which is producing a win at all cost mentality.

[@adityag485]

Laszlo Szujo What proof do u have nadal cheated and in tennis it's even harder to cheat because they use WADA unlike the bicycling tour which uses their own system which makes it easier to be corrupted

[@lszujo73]

willful ignorance is a type of decease,that it's harder to cure than a lot of physical illness

[@telmolicious]

+Laszlo Szujo ur proof that he is doping is willful ignorance? I hope u r not a lawyer Dude 😂

[@tobiasreaper9701]

Graham has the most toxic people commenting on his videos. I have no clue where they come from

[@garethhancock8525]

I'd say they came from their mothers womb

[@EchoesOfTheDeep]

Correction : Lance has the most toxic people following him

[@daverigby23]

I think the Swiss would be a bit vexed at their tour being called " a warm up race for the Tour de France "

[@Superfly1503]

Dave Rigby nah they’re not. It’s part of the appeal. Big names compete because they need to warm up.

[@PInk77W1]

I remember back in 1980 they called the Tour de Swisse a warm up for the Tour

[@BanjoLuke1]

It is..... And it's not an issue. You can make the same claim for the Dauphiné.

[@Pusfilth]

Lance must have been the man, running the shit, boss af .

[@tomothybahamothy]

And now he's a disgrace

[@triatheletewolf7279]

He was, but Johan was right there with him. The lies Johan Bruyneel claimed about Alberto Contador turned out to be BS in the 2009 TDF...and Johan sticks to his claims to this day...asshat!!!

[@sabrina.natalie]

It must be the hair. But he kind of reminds me of Ethan Craft from Lizzie McGuire 🥰

[@richardcoreno]

This era was as if Don King controlled pro cycling.

[@garyshepherd9226]

Some of it is corrupt - not all of it. Armstrong took it to a new level.

[@x-raymind7778]

Wwwwwhat do you know about...

[@stephentuthill4598]

Lance Armstrong was publicly not proven to abuse substances, and now Team Sky and Froome are in the same position... Coincidence that both Armstrong and Froome both fly up the climbs, don't you think?

[@martymasters1894]

Lance Armstrong is a fuckin boss!!!!💊💊💊

[@deweywatts8456]

If it wasnt human lives, It would be fun to see no rules roided up wrestler types racing bikes

[@georgestatarian5796]

Honest guy

[@burntthetoast]

Great interview. But can someone explain the bag of blood doping comment? I don't understand how exactly it works. I get the general idea, can someone elaborate.

[@casualguy393]

Red blood cells carry oxygen. Prior to the race, if you put more of those red blood cells into your body, then you can perform better. Riders who were on private jets could get bags of their own blood (drawn earlier) into the country as opposed to riders who traveled on commercial flights and had to go through more strict customs ;)

[@naomibaker6259]

Brendan French having more blood circulating around your body, carries more oxygen to your major organs, but more importantly your oxygen starved muscles, meaning you can ride for longer, harder and tire less easily. Basically vastly improving your endurance. Imagine riding for 180km and not feeling reading to collapse at the end...that's where blood doping helps....the recovery time is quicker aswell, which means the can wake up the next day and ride another gruelling 180km!

[@AidanMillward]

When they took the blood they'd do a bit of EPO to boost the blood levels back up to normal for training. Then after each stage or whatever do a transfusion to boost it naturally so no drugs are found during a piss test.

[@two6s722]

Gator!!

[@snook3032]

I hate fucking cheaters. especially Lance Armstrong.

[@hollandmeester347]

There was a crooked man..... Lance Armstrong..... Bad apple in the sports. Hail Greg Lemond and David Walsh.......

[@PInk77W1]

I have as many Tour de France victories as Lance Armstrong

[@mickeymelendez1605]

Zero 🤫

[@PInk77W1]

@@mickeymelendez1605 Yeap

[@bigsur175]

I like to fight so me and lance would fight

[@charlieduransax]

I wonder what Lance thinks about him lol

[@704JOE]

HE DOESN'T......THINK ABOUT HIM AT ALL

[@tomothybahamothy]

@@704JOE doubt that, Lance is a bitter guy

[@PInk77W1]

Lance is busy, trying to win the Boulder CO 10k

[@justinbergmans36]

It sound more like sour grapes that a fellow doper is saying Lance had an advantage. So he’s basically hypothesizing that more naturally gifted cyclists do worse on EPO and blood doping?

[@roadracer1584]

Lance is a dope head.

[@fernandog.aguirre2791]

Lance Armstrong, great athlete= DISGUSTING as a human being. Tyler H. great guy, decided to dope as being part of the pro peloton move....but the guy regretted and came clean, honest, must live in peace with himself......But also very MAN to said enough to the F.......LA bulling system!!!

[@jeffdeere328]

still gripping on....... all this from a man caught twice doping and then banned. seems to make his money being interviewed moaning about Armstrong to anyone who will pay to listen.

[@hellohell77]

Jeff Deere this was from 2012, the year it all leaked out about lances true involvement with doping and his subsequent ban from the sport. Tyler does sound very bitter here but we don't know what all he went through. We do know lance Armstrong was one of the biggest liars, manipulators, and pure jackasses in the sport. He probably had enough talent to win 2 or 3 if everyone was clean. But I get what Tyler is saying about when everyone is doping it's still not an even playing field. Plus the UCI was going to go the ends of the earth with him. He had possibly the greatest comeback story in sports history being told and he was American. It was a way to really open up to the biggest sporting market in the world. The us kind of got into cycling with lemond. But lance made cycling bigger than it ever was in the us in The early 2000s. They wanted to ride that as far as they could. All such huge lies played out in such a grand scale.

[@gcooper7633]

Jeff is a prick. Fact

[@NxDoyle]

What kind of defence is "everybody's doing it"? Not only a tu quoque fallacy, but an ad populum as well. Explain to me how Armstrong's cheating and lying are negated by the fact that others did it.

[@sebrooks1]

His wrongdoings are not negated by everyone else’s wrongdoings, but it is unjust and hypocritical to throw the book at one person and make him the scapegoat for an entire sport’s corruption. If everyone is doing it, then everyone should suffer the consequences, not just one. I think that’s the injustice that many intuitively recognize and resent.

[@beverleylumb8048]

Well you were doping and you never won

[@kungallu2133]

Yea right Hamilton, Lance got you caught lol, what a bunch of BS! This guy lies worse then Lance for god sake, he dont want to take any responsibility, ita al Lance fault, what a weasel of a human being. Hamiltons motivs is clear, and it's not the truth that's for sure

[@givelobster6750]

Hamilton just can't beat lance.. envy is the key to his confession and also such a coward..🤮

[@givelobster6750]

@SP in doping! 😎😅

[@PInk77W1]

Lance is a druggie

[@JackThomas-t4m]

Who is glad they are bald

[@radiofanuk]

LOL what a load of crap lol

[@kungallu2133]

Hamilton didn't manage to win the Tour once as long Lance active so sure Lance was so worried about him so much so Lance broke the OMERTA he talks about to Rat on him! You al cheated so yes its a level playing field Hamilton, stop whit the exuses fir God sake he comes out so envy of Lance its pathetic.

[@beverleylumb8048]

Oh it's corrupt but look what you were doing

[@CharlieAligaen]

The more I watch interviews with Lance's former teammates, the more I dislike the guy.

[@finnburke7189]

Snitch

[@tsmay4598]

Armstrong was indeed a snitch. So in the end it was satisfying that he was dealt some of his own medicine.

[@sickboy3636]

Nope, Lance refused to name names, even when he was caught. Tyler is a snitch and a douche bag. He lives in fear because he's a bitch.

[@tsmay4598]

Armstring actually grassed on Hamilton when he was getting too close for comfort, so Armstrong got some of his own medicine here.

[@ac1143]

This guy doped and then turned on his friends because he lost. No better than the people he turned on. Probably worse.

[@showmethatthang]

I think Tyler is Lance biggest hater. He still couldn’t get over the fact that he is not as dominant even though they both (While on the same team) use the same type of drugs. It’s crazy how he admits that even until now the sport of cycling is dirty and corrupt and yet, still mad a Lance for being the smarter, richer out of them all.

[@Pro303]

Gotta love an interview with / about Tyler Hamilton, thats only talks about Lance. Get over it... The dude is a winner.

[@ConstantineAndreas]

I think this interview was in 2012, before the Oprah interview even. Edit: Yea 2012, says in the description. Sort of the height of the speculation about Lance, so makes sense this interview wouldn't be much about Hamilton himself.

[@cecilhenry9908]

He's a cheat, and a vicious one at that.

[@biterocco]

Pro303 lance is a cold hearted bully.

[@pahouseholder]

Armstrong worked hard. At everything. You gotta give him that. He was world class. He trained hard. He cheated better than the best too.

[@ConstantineAndreas]

No question Lance sacrificed everything to achieve his goals... but I use the word "sacrifice" the same way an evil Mayan priest would lol.

[@briandarabaca]

Don't trust a snitch! BS! Making money by dropping your co-dopers!