UL Certification for Electric Bikes

UL Certification for Electric Bikes - What does this mean?

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Күн бұрын

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@drgakovic Жыл бұрын

I am late to this podcast, however I have to correct you. Recently passed law in NYC requires the whole eBike/system needs to be certified to UL 2849. In addition, batteries shall be certified to UL 2271. Compliance to UL 2271 is not just testing. Testing is only about a third of the requirements of the standard, any standard. There are: Construction requirements, component requirements, performance requirements, electrical tests, mechanical test, environmental tests and firmware and hardware reliability evaluation (Functional Safety). keep in mind that these tests are repeated numerous times. Electrical Tests: Overcharge test Short circuit test Overdischarge test Temperature test Imbalanced charging test Dielectric voltage withstand test Isolation resistance test Mechanical Tests: Vibration Endurance Test Shock Test Crush Test Drop Test Mold Stress Relief Test Handle Loading Test Roll Over Test Strain Relief Tests (Cord Anchorages) Environmental Tests: Immersion Test Water Exposure Test (IP Code Rating) Thermal Cycling Test

@DavidCooper-vh4nr 8 ай бұрын

Thanx for the update.

@eRide_Addict 8 ай бұрын

Exactly. There's a difference between UL Certification and Compliant to UL Standards.

@elk3909 11 ай бұрын

lots to think about since i build my own batteries. i only used capacity tested Samsung or lg cells i make sure none of the bms detection lines could short if crushed so no crossing wires unless a solid piece of cardboard is between them the bms must not let any cells go below 2.7 volts or above 4.2. i use my stack monitor to monitor both tests i always use extra ring insulators on the positive cell side before welding them. even though each cell has one built in i always top balance all the cell groups in the battery before using it again the stack monitor helps do this. i always monitor the cell voltages myself during charge an discharge to look for any anomalies. this is useful if a cell has self discharge over time as it will unbalance the groups over months or years i never charge lithium batteries unattended not even things like my cell phone. my cellphone has 30 cell phone batteries on it each with thier own bms using these measures ive never had fires or even cell venting. i get my cells from used power tool batteries (INR cells) so each is tested for capacity, self discharge and resistance.

@sdorn Жыл бұрын

Great explanation! I think for most people, there are two practical considerations: safety and insurance/lease restrictions (which are tied together for renters). Safety is not entirely tied to UL (or equivalent EU standards), because people use non-OEM chargers and batteries all the time, and the certification only applies to the original battery and/or system. I hope this incentivizes landlords to create space for e-bikes in sheltered locations, with racks and convenient outlets (and that apartment insurance companies see that as a safety measure) -- that wouldn't entirely eliminate the "let's charge the janky battery in my hallway by a chainlinked set of extension cords" phenomenon, but it would make charging at the rack the lazier (and safer!) approach.

@kevinnashskitchen3517 Жыл бұрын

Would be cool if you could send in the battery information to someone and get the UL sticker with your personal serial number on it. Like send in a picture and dates of purchase with the companies name in the text and they can send a sticker that your batch of batteries have been also approved. Somehow "grandfather in" your battery 🤔

@DavidCooper-vh4nr 8 ай бұрын

It would be nice, but I think that's wishful thinking on your part. It would be an administrative nightmare with people trying to find "workarounds", like using the serial number for one battery and getting the approval sticker and then putting on a different battery. 😮

@Bustadhed Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info and keep getting stronger !!!!🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

@rangersmith4652 Жыл бұрын

UL certification means a sample of a given design was tested by Underwriters Laboratories and passed. That said, there are two more things to know: 1) Once the model/design is approved and certified, thousands more of that model/design will be built to that spec (supposedly) but won't be tested, so you don't know if the QA was maintained. 2) There are items that don't carry UL labeling that are perfectly fine, such as those that carry CE certification, and simply haven't been submitted to UL for testing.

@michaelmorris1802 Жыл бұрын

I agree completely it doesn't have to be UL... it just has to be safe.

@nekomanz Жыл бұрын

Being trusted is the issue TBH anyone can put a big price tag on a bike and call it safe at that point thats the problem

@michaelmorris1802 Жыл бұрын

@@nekomanz Yeah, I wasn't suggesting the "honor system"... I'm just acknowledging there are other certification groups beside UL. Many parts of Europe have very strict safety standards, and there are fair number of E-Bikes being sold in the US that come from Europe. Some of which "may" be certified to an even stricter standard than the UL standard discussed in this video.

@r.d.9399 Жыл бұрын

If a battery burns a house down and was UL certified best believe your company will be audited.

@nekomanz Жыл бұрын

@@r.d.9399 That can happen just would have a really bad factory defect. Ill say better have insurance

@olegpetelevitch4443 6 ай бұрын

I have 2 batteries one 48 and one 52 both certified 1 cost me $999 .000 and the 52 $ 1,300 Lg and Samsung ! My BBSHD 1400 watt mid drive runs on both ! I use a Grin satiator ! Both certified my hole bike is ! Shop custom build ! 25ahn both hailong ! I DO NOT MUCK AROUND WITH THE BATTERY SEND TO SPECIALIST TO REPAIR OR GET CHECKED ! The rest ,I do and buy parts from YOU ! Thanks m8 top info %100 !👍👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌

@OlovMetal Жыл бұрын

The fact that producers of these items didn't go to UL immediately from the start is disturbing. Why are these bikes so expensive if they didn't go through UL???

@mrd6093 10 ай бұрын

HEY THANK YOU FOR THE VERY HEADS UP ON THE UL CERTIFICATION .

@jeffmpvd7689 Жыл бұрын

I wonder if / when e-bikes batteries will move to a less volatile chemistry like LiPo. It's a really good idea to use a UL listed charger in addition to a UL listed battery.

@Area13ebikes Жыл бұрын

For clarification, the common "lipo" is the same chemistry as what we usually see in lithium ion 18650 cells. Lifepo4 is a safer chemistry and typically lasts longer. But they are heavier in most cases and require a bit more volume. We're sacrificing safety for performance at the moment.

@jeffmpvd7689 Жыл бұрын

@@Area13ebikes Thanks for the clarification. It will be really interesting to see what happens with battery technology in the next few years and beyond.

@DavyOneness Жыл бұрын

We need to distinguish between lithium batteries. The dangerous lithium Ion batteries are not the same as the safe lithium IRON phosphate batteries. Lithium Ion are little more light weight and smaller than LiFePO4 batteries is the only reason the industry been clinging to them. My homemade LiFePO4 ebike has gained capacity over charging cycles, unlike with lithium ion batteries. When Lithium Ion batteries fail they turn into fireworks, LiFePo4 just oozes out its electrolyte is its worse case scenario

@jeffmpvd7689 Жыл бұрын

Yes I'm wondering when / if the e-bike industry will convert over to lithium iron phosphate

@chow-chihuang4903 Жыл бұрын

I’d rather they use LFP batteries. An ebike can easily accommodate the slightly larger size and greater weight for the same USABLE capacity. More temperature tolerant (at temps I’d ride in), less dangerous if abused, can use the full capacity versus needing to “baby” them between 20-80% state of charge, lower cost and several times more full charge cycles? Sign me up!

@Harry-lmao Жыл бұрын

From my understanding is that the BMS actually protects the battery from blowing up. Normally it shuts down before it causes any damages. That'd be only worst case scenario. I can recall to have seen a bunch of battery cells being crushed by a hyraulic press and nothing really happened. Thanks for the details tho. Is this UL certification international? Guess not it's only required for e bikes but any electronic vehicle on the market so far (at least it should be).

@billgilstrap1778 Жыл бұрын

Thanx Kyle. Great content!

@NicholasMackris-iq5uh 8 ай бұрын

In a related issue as an ebike owner I am concerned with new ebike laws in states like N.J. requiring registration & insurance, Ca.,Oregon. Videos on you tube talk about this as the end of ebikes. I would like to hear your take on the issue. Could you do a youtube video on it & give a response also to this comment. You are the most knowledgeable person on ebikes I follow on KZbin. Thank you

@paulcoinc Жыл бұрын

The Lyric Graffiti battery fuse amperage is lower than the controller. Another KZbinr had his fuse blow when he was doing a hill test. He was lucky he still had the second battery to get him home. Lyric repaired the battery, and he is waiting to have the second battery fuse swapped out to a higher amp now. I won't mention what channel, but he is from Oregon. I don't think you would have a hard time finding him.

@Area13ebikes Жыл бұрын

Definitely should be the other way around. Fuse should be higher than max controller capability.

@paulcoinc Жыл бұрын

@Area13ebikes that's what you would think. I don't know, maybe in a rush to get the bikes out they used under powered fuses.

@kevinnashskitchen3517 Жыл бұрын

Love this info. Great job presenting the basics ✌😎

@jamesbonham5383 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for an informative video.

@ushuaiaice2804 Жыл бұрын

Thanks, Kyle, great video & info . I wonder will a company like Radbikes when they do become UL compliant, Back approve the batteries on bikes they sold pre UL status ?

@Doc.Holiday Жыл бұрын

I asked the company that made my bike which has not yet been delivered. They said that they are in the process of being UL Certified but they would not be able to back issue a label.

@MeerkatMotorBoards Жыл бұрын

I've wondered about this scenario..A fully charged battery and rider starts ride at the top of a hill, is region braking threat to the battery?

@paulcoinc Жыл бұрын

I'm guessing the crush test would crushed till full failure. They would obviously do so in a safe laboratory.

@emr10151983 Жыл бұрын

What does this mean for converted bikes. Would the battery alone be good enough or does the whole system need to be certified.

@EBikeBuilder_ Жыл бұрын

this legislation pertains to ebikes sold in NYC. Presumably does not affect DIY bikes. Its the battery specifically that you would want to be certified.

@Area13ebikes Жыл бұрын

Correct.

@curtwuollet2912 Жыл бұрын

I see a problem for the blue shrink wrapped battery packs.

@kloud6539 Жыл бұрын

I was wondering do electric mopeds that go 30mph and bellow do you need to register it?

@Freebird_67 Жыл бұрын

My e-bike goes 35mph. 2000w AWD. I will have to register it next year. They are banning e-bikes and scooters in my city and surrounding cities are doing the same. It’s all good. I’m wanting a motorcycle anyway

@turt1231 9 ай бұрын

If you don't mind me asking, where are you located?

@thecam0073 Жыл бұрын

But what are those specs? How many feet can the battery drop and still be safe?

@MrSGL21 Жыл бұрын

the problems lie in cheap low quality chargers, bms' that don't really do anything at all, and shoddy construction and cells. you have a big upswing in fires due to a huge growth in micromobility over the last couple of years combined with supply chain issues forcing makers to source batteries from less than optimal sources ie china.

@AlSelk Жыл бұрын

The NYC law for e-bikes is the UL 2849 standard. This is the standard that covers the whole system and not just the batteries. This makes sense as the battery, charger and motor work as a whole. Everything effects everything. So Area 13 is wrong on what the NYC law is. This is the law that should be passed nationwide as it is the highest standard. Several major e-bike manufactures have stores in NYC so until they have the UL certification they will have to shut down. The major e-bike motor manufacture that is UL 2849 certified is Bosch. Every e-bike motor they sell in the US is certified. They are in Many bikes including Trek, Gazelle.and Tern among others.

@plummjk Жыл бұрын

Are Heybike Ranger batteries UL Certified?

@cfrankfly 2 ай бұрын

Great explanation!

@padroooo 8 ай бұрын

I received my Wired Freedom last week and I emailed them and they said their bike and battery are UL Certified. I thought I saved the Email from them but can't find it.

@Area13ebikes 8 ай бұрын

If it doesn't have a UL sticker on either the bike or battery it isn't.

@Bigdog1787 Жыл бұрын

They should just switch to graphene batteries. Some bikes use them already they can hold more power and they last longer and if they catch fire at least you can put the fire out unlike lithium.

@nekomanz Жыл бұрын

Is Ride 1 up UL C?

@Area13ebikes Жыл бұрын

Not that I'm aware of.

@trailguy Жыл бұрын

can anyone help me diagnose a problem? my EBC model C is 2 years old, 3,000 miles, usually no problems, but this year i took it out of the basement to start spring riding and the motor shuts off now and then. only 2-4 seconds, but its scary. its usually with the pedal assist but once happened the throttle and it can be with front or back battery. must this mean its a connection near the motor? pumping the brakes made no difference. i have dropped it kinda hard a few times, no wrecks.

@davel2119 Жыл бұрын

Check wire harness going into brake levers. I’ve seen them pulled out slightly

@trailguy Жыл бұрын

@@davel2119 will do!

@trailguy Жыл бұрын

@@davel2119 I just rode on assist and though it often takes a few miles to experience any issues, I wiggled the brake cables after only a couple hundred yards and the motor cut power and then resumed. It happened on both sides, which makes me wonder if that would happpen even if everything is good. Anyway, the are attatched with some pretty beefy cone-ish shaped plastic housings. Should I remove or loosen them, so that I can see if there’s a loose connection in there?

@trailguy Жыл бұрын

@@andrewj99 would i need to replace the wire inside the motor? (fwiw, i have 2 batteries, one motor).

@trailguy Жыл бұрын

@@andrewj99 hmm, crud. well i spoke to the support at electric bike company (EBC) today and mentioned your thoughts. he said its doubtful that my problem is the broken motor wire because Im not having any display malfunctions. And didnt you say the problem was accompanied by false mph readings in your experience? anyway, if i need to replace my 500W motor is there any reason i shouldnt get a 750? also, do you have a secondary diagnosis?

@RouxBeard Жыл бұрын

I made my purchase decision because of the UL certification.

@TheCaptain756 Жыл бұрын

Bravo for the detailed info on UL certifying Li batteries. I suspect UL listed batteries might cost more to meet those standards, but may be cheaper than a lawsuit, or a lost insurance claim. The challenge is finding a balance in the price of bikes (with UL listings) among prospective consumers.

@MHH3180 Жыл бұрын

Sadly, what really will happen is really crappy bikes will be U.L. certified, they'll charge more for them and the gullible will buy them. Even if U.L. certification actually meant something, it has nothing to do with the straight gauge aluminum junk, with Walmart level disk brakes and toy components that plaque our industry.

@mikecurran883 Жыл бұрын

someone needs to create a universal ebike battery discharger/maintainer.

@MHH3180 Жыл бұрын

Nothing more than a rubber stamp that does not deal with the real issue of poor quality BMS chips. It is a calculated attempt to eliminate competition that often is higher quality. We need a much better standard, that the whole world can accept, than U.L.

@Ebiketips1 Жыл бұрын

Been creeping for awhile but I subscribed today. Great channel ❤

@Area13ebikes Жыл бұрын

Thanks for tuning in!

@TreasureHunter-hf9ff 5 ай бұрын

I want the whole bike to be waterproof not just the battery. You get caught in the rain your bike gets drenched it and all the components should be as protected from the moisture just as a car is.

@pro-pix4665 Жыл бұрын

That UL listing really helped with cellphone battery fires! lol Hey Buddy, hook me up with one of those sweet Bolton Bikes to show in my bike shop ....WIN ....WIN..

@mikemorgan8588 Жыл бұрын

I haven’t seen one instance of batteries starting on fire without prior damage or abuse. UL listing many times isn’t as rigorous as other testing standards in this country or, worldwide.

@Doc.Holiday Жыл бұрын

Thieves target batteries if they can’t get the whole bike. I can’t help but wonder if these stolen batteries are not remanufactured and sold cheaply to unsuspecting buyers?

@williamvan909 Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂 I don't use Chinese batterys I use USA lead batterys never had problems with it catching fire there just a pain have to make a special battery box or make your own .

@Freebird_67 Жыл бұрын

Reputable source, give me a break

@curtwuollet2912 Жыл бұрын

Add $500.

@jeremywheeler8417 Жыл бұрын

I appreciate the explanation of the different points that they test for UL labs. Unfortunately, I think the certification will comprise of nothing more than a sticker. Anyone can make a sticker.

@mrofnocnon Жыл бұрын

What it means is the government is looking to control this aspect of our lives as well and this is a step towards making e-bikes conform to as yet unenforced regulations.

@MHH3180 Жыл бұрын

Forcing us to lower quality factory e-bikes.

@mrofnocnon Жыл бұрын

@@MHH3180 Agreed there is already a restriction on wattage in Canada of 500W.

@geraldkoth654 Жыл бұрын

Thank God I make my own bikes and batteries. MYOB.

@Area13ebikes Жыл бұрын

I assume we'll be able to build our own for many years to come.