Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts - Tirpitz In Trouble [Historical Germany 1940 Campaign #5]

[@ShionWinkler]

I love how the AI has faster, lighter ships, with more armor, more guns, that shoot farther and more accurately... Can they fix the "bug" where the AI just out right cheats?

[@Davidletter3]

I'm glad you think this too.

[@MichaelTheRead]

No, because the only options for AI are "cheat" or "potato."

[@dogf1ghter]

If it’s so bad then cheat as well edit game files like I do

[@A_Name_]

Have you ever played a game before? Ai can not compete with people so they have to give it advantages. Even with they we still win.

[@nathand.9969]

Yes, adjusting the beam on a ship during refit is a thing, it happened to all of the Pearl Harbor battleships during their repair and rebuilds in early WWII.

[@deanbeever6814]

Belfast was another made a little bigger with more armor after the mine hit her and I'm sure with some research there probably alot more

[@bradleypeterson6328]

The only one that I am aware of that had her actual beam increased was the West Virginia, and that was only because her side took so much damage that it was just as labor intensive to repair as replace. Most other battleships had their "beam" increased, but with the addition of torpedo blisters, and not usable deck or hull space.

[@ericcheng5496]

One advantage AI has in big battles is that it can micro-manage everything at the same time. It's not perfect but the more player gets distracted everyewhere, the more advantage AI has.

[@Myuutsuu85]

Can you pause the game and still give orders to your own ships? This would at least somewhat migate the issue, even though it slows down the pace of the game a lot.

[@tommyb6611]

17:45 You have them all detected. But the game devs are simply scumbags for not making a full time torpedo warning flag. Especially in this type of battle, a human player cannot trace and keep track of all torps. 1) they are so invisible (after detected), they blend in with the background) 2) the warning sign appears for a few seconds at the first detection and then nothing.

[@umad42]

I think scumbags is a bit extreme, but short sighted would be accurate

[@tommyb6611]

@@umad42 Yeah, it may have been a little harsh. I think they may have prioritized introducing new content and solving it's bugs. So lets give them a pass (although we are discussing quite a long time passing and many new game iterations). I believe, in all fairness, the current version should be the last where they introduced new features, and from now on to start solving all the bugs and bad things of the game: like the torpedos. Everything needs to be changed. There should be posibility to have primary and secondary torpedo launchers (or be able to activate individually). I've read somewhere a good point. Player makes a torpedo spammer ship (20-30 torps/side). Now, the moment there is good chance, the FCS will launch all 30 of them, which is a waste of torps, because most of them will not hit. On the other hand if you can shoot them each launcher at a time, the spread will be less and you may send intersecting lines. So those 30 torps (6x5) will be send in 6 waves from various directions and even account for some movement of the enemy. Also to set the spread for tight or lose

[@welluhwhatdoyouwantm]

I wish there was an option to make them more visible. Stealth can see them when I cannot. The computer can certainly see them.

[@tommyb6611]

@@welluhwhatdoyouwantm Yes, to have high contrast so that player can see them. Or like put a bright red circle around them like most video games do around enemy units. Something that shows them.

[@cast_outlaw]

They should make it that all the information about you fleet can only be looked at by the ai one item at a time with 2 seconds between changes of what info it can look at as what is happening is it has all the same information we get but can cover it all in a 10th of a second without missing anything the ai dose not need to be dumber just less omnipotent about what is going on give it more human like limits also coop multi player would be nice where you and a friend or two control different groups of ship classes one person controlling the destroyers and light cruisers and someone else or multiple others crontroling battle ships etc would definitely be fun

[@ShionWinkler]

When you said "I would love the V-1 to stay alive, just to prevent any torps from getting through" 15:52 You can see torps going by, the same torps that then went on to hit your battleships.

[@hklassehutten1476]

Don't be surprised if you get the "I've been playing longer than you" response

[@ShionWinkler]

@@hklassehutten1476 No, he responds in the video, sorta, when he says it's hard to micro manage all these ships while doing commentary; and that is a fair point. I wasn't being mean, I was just jokingly pointing out that the torps that hit his BB's, he missed while saying, I hope I don't miss any torps....

[@Davidletter3]

@@hklassehutten1476 yeah as far as I've seen from watching his videos for a while now stealth isn't the kinda guy you respond like that or be shitty with his audience. Never seen him be like that and he plays games like this and wargame that can and do easily make my blood boil

[@darrellhartanto4428]

AI turning radius is ridiculous, BB looks like instant turning. For the unhistorical build, just build an H-42 or H-41 BB plan, focusing on accuracy and anti-torpedo warfare. Unless the AI turning radius gets patched having a torpedo focused warfare will be useless

[@timsellers4946]

The only way I’ve found torpedos to be useful is suicide charging my destroyers in with fast torpedoes. Any long range torpedoes (at least in my experience) just miss far too frequently.

[@delawareK]

despite the start of campaign there should be some ships with trained or even elite crew, level of crew should not be bound to start of campaign, only for ships built during the campaign

[@jackhaffenhoff1365]

There should be a pool of trained crew you can disperse at different levels throughout your fleet.

[@Skreezilla]

The torpedo's ruin any fun past about 1920, your ships never seem to aim their torpedo's, while the enemy ones are so accurate they can hit a rowing boat at 25km. And then of course your own ships need to be micro managed as they never ever dodge said enemy torps no matter what you try. they really need to overhaul the system or make it so that the AI don't make ships armed with 50k Torpedos.... I had a random battle with the ai with a BC i made and the AI light cruiser had 8 triple launchers on each side of! -__-

[@Lupus_Indomitus]

i had a campaign with a british light that carried 4 quintuple and one quadruple launcher per side. also in that campaign a bb with no armament at all.

[@Davidletter3]

Honestly the AI in this game needs massive work. Its stupid at the momment the state its in. What does my head in is when you've damaged an AI ship and it just sits spinning to be perpendicular to your ships despite it being crippled. The torpedo spam is real with any ship the AI designs. Some one really needs to get on to the Dev's about this. Further more, I think the game desperately needs some kind of limits on what ships can have, not just time and money limits. Ammo stock piles and counts on shore are needed to cap the absurd level of torpedos and guns some ships have. I also think some sort of limitation system similar to irl treaties is needed. I don't care if this is a game, it's got to be balanced and playable or what's the point.

[@calvinrummell]

I hope that next patch fixes a lot of problems, because while I understand the enemy was more numerous, they seemed to hit you with a much better accuracy despite having the same crew training and about the same modifiers as you did

[@tommyb6611]

This has been a long standing problem. Not new. In all the skirmish battles (even before crews were introduced) the computer ships would have better aim at the end of the match (looking at the stats of the ships wjen killed). I'd say double better chances. Why? For no reason.

[@calvinrummell]

@@tommyb6611 Oh. I didn't actually know that. Hopefully they balance it out soon

[@tommyb6611]

@@calvinrummell I kinda stopped playing this game seeing how bad the balance is. And from alpha 10 to to the current version to still have issues present, is bad. Torps is one of them and this hit ratio is another. Like for example make a 10 v 10 skirmish match and let it roll. The human fleet was like around 5% and the computer almost double. Other cases with better tech (later years) human like 9-12%, computer 19%..etc... Anyway, just mentioning some results from experience, nothing to worry about not knowing. Overall the game is nice and has potential to grow. Best wishes to game devs .

[@kelvinchung6506]

When encountering flooding, your Tirpitz should slow down or even stop to help control the flooding first. If you continue to sail at high speed without contolling the flooding, large amount of seawater will rush in. That was one of the reason the Japanese Shinano carrier was sunk due to heavy flooding after getting torpedoed by US submarine.

[@lieps2547]

i was think of starting my own campaign but it looks so frustrating at some parts that i think its probably better to leave it to be a bit better or after development is done

[@welluhwhatdoyouwantm]

Try an earlier campaign. The first two have very short range torpedoes, and no way to load the decks with them.

[@PhoenixT70]

I feel your pain, Stealth. I used to play "Atlantic Fleet" on mobile, and I don't anymore because the AI does the exact same trick to dodge torpedoes. You cannot turn a battlecruiser on a dime like that.

[@KINGLOGAN3095]

If you make the light cruisers with the 3 triple 6in guns ( 1 front, 2 back) you could give them really good hydro and use them to cover your larger ships, which might help mediate the torpedo problem

[@Myuutsuu85]

19:05 That was your chance right there. Could have avoided the hit. And considering how close it was at 19:40, I think that doing something as simple as reducing the speed might also have helped.

[@lennartmeinke8861]

Can you somehow mod or edit the game to make enemy less likely to use torpedoes? These Kitakami impressions are getting more and more ridiculous

[@Stealth17Gaming]

Wouldn't know how

[@Bobis32]

​@@Stealth17Gaming id care less about torp soup if it was more accurate to the IRL detonation probability where about 2/3rds of torpedoes didnt explode on target

[@Tuck-Shop]

Starting with Historical is one thing but thinking of and designing some form of WunderWaffe super battleship to win the war is still in the historical mindset. From the Maus, V3, Ratte, Horton 229 and other wunderwaffe that were never implemented, a giant battleship in response to the Royal Navy torp spam is perfectly logical.

[@TheSlazzer]

Torpedos are very expensive kit. Torp spam should be nerfed by making players (and AI) have to pay for them, for example 100k per Torp. Historically, navies really had to conserve their Torpedos for high-level targets and high-probability of hitting them. Only going into mid-WW2 they became more and more widely available.

[@aaronp3411]

I don’t know if it’s been commented already, but there are instances of beam on BBS being increased. I believe most of the standard type BB in the USN we’re widened to some extent after Pearl Harbor.

[@stevelenox152]

I'll take my torpedo soup with extra torpedoes lol from 13:37 left of battle I would of completely disengaged and retreated from the battle as it was pointless to continue

[@jonastemme2837]

Super nice campaign

[@andreasraimov4467]

Agreed

[@MM22658]

this is that opra moment but with torpedoes

[@wntu4]

What are the green concentric circles that show up sometimes?

[@EnRandomSten]

I think the main problem with the campaign is the fact that you get completely swamped by the AI spamming out ships at a rate you cant compete with. The fact that it takes so much time to build new ships during the campagin means that if you fuck up in a single battle you start falling behind so badly when you have to constantly repair your ships The fact that the AI designs are horrible gunspam ships going at light speed doesnt make it easier either

[@jordan9961]

Truly you should be maneuvering the battle line every once an a while as long as its in torpedo range. Waiting for torpedoes to be spotted gives the enemy too good a chance to hit. It's better to just sail a different direction and throw off their launch. Also, screening ships should keep your battle line in between them and the enemy. Screens are there to engage light ships getting close and they don't need to be in the way of your battle line, throwing off their accuracy. They also draw fire that they are not designed to take, and I've noticed in other battles you lose a lot of CL and CA this way.

[@lieps2547]

now we only have to wait till the japanese are added for the yamato

[@zanaduz2018]

I suspect that they would add the US first since that would keep the map largely the same for the Atlantic theatre we already have (they would just need to add the western bit of the Atlantic). After that, then likely the Japanese, since adding Japan would mean adding the Pacific and Indian Oceans...

[@lieps2547]

@@zanaduz2018 so we are getting a iowa first then?

[@CommanderNissan]

@@zanaduz2018 my first guess would be Spain/Russia, since they’re already on the map. Unless Spain controls the Caribbean, I imagine the American western Atlantic campaign might feel rather dry. However, I do agree that they would probably polish the Atlantic theater before adding the pacific, but the pacific is where China, Japan, and the US really get to shine.

[@zanaduz2018]

@@CommanderNissan Considering that their earliest scenario is ~1900, they *might* fudge the map some so that Spain gets her Caribbean colonies (aka pre-Spanish-American War map). You are more likely correct that they'd be more apt to flesh out their current European theatre with the Spaniards, Russians, and perhaps more minor naval powers (Dutch, Portugese?) before they move over the Atlantic to America and then to the Pacific...

[@CommanderNissan]

@@zanaduz2018 I wasn’t sure, so I looked it up, but apparently the Spanish American War was in 1898. So they could give Spain the Caribbean from the 1890 campaign, which would help give America a direct threat. But yeah, that was essentially what I was thinking. Even if the Spanish American war was too early for the game, they could fudge the maps purely for gameplay purposes.

[@cast_outlaw]

You probably already know this but you can find out what ship got torpedoed if you hover your pointer over the lower section of the weapon infor will tell you what ship is being targeted and yeah I’m having a heck of a time in my Campanella because the spam torpedoes so much just leaving my big ships in port and clearing out there smaller torpedo spammers

[@lathanchurch8352]

for large fleet v fleet battles I can see how co op would help

[@wolfsgesicht3032]

You have some water between these torps

[@toenailmuncher0772]

Very historical indeed. Loving the series!

[@gangutbayern246]

Hello there Stealth! Just a brief request, could you perhaps do a sound demonstration of each gun caliber shooting (I dont think it's necessary for the 1-3" guns) without any other sounds? I wish to edit the sounds and implement them into my own game, I just don't wish to spend a buck to get the game just for that (Though, it's alright if you don't want to do it. Besides, I'm the only one asking this. No one else has done it though, at least from what I've found. If there is another source though, it'd be appreciated if you could redirect me to it. Thanks!)

[@Stealth17Gaming]

The way you phrase this makes it come across like you want to steal their sounds. I'm not going to help you do this.

[@gangutbayern246]

@@Stealth17Gaming Now that I've looked back at it, my intentions might be wrong. Pardon me for my mistake, I should've been more aware of my actions. I thought just the gun sounds would be useable, but I guess I can never be too cautious.

[@xveers]

I confess I'm not sure if this is possible, but one refit idea you could try is reducing the secondary armament somewhat. If you're optimizing for longer range, you might be able to get away with a little less close-in firepower... maybe losing a single pair of guns amidships plus a little less armor (off the fore and aft, perhaps?) might get you at least close enough to refit with heavier shells and maybe a better radar without it being too complex a rebuild.

[@Stealth17Gaming]

Yes in a future video I'm getting some more battleships, largely without secondaries.

[@eclipsedragons1477]

hay Stealth 17 Gaming I have an Idea for your light cruisers. What you could do for the light cruisers is make them (fast torpedo cruisers) to help out your destroyers. Since cruisers or more armored than destroyers. They could get closer. So the torpedoes have a better chance to hit. But since I don't own the game yet, I don't know if it would be feasible.

[@delawareK]

more armor, but bigger, easier to hit, AI has no problem target DD even with the biggest guns , because of carried torpedoes, it will do same with CL

[@eclipsedragons1477]

@@delawareK oh ty for the repliy

[@morsletum5348]

Super heavy shells will make your ships hit even less. No clue why you always use them. They perform worse in every test I did.

[@六工業のカービィ]

That's a caatle, the formation that is hard to take down

[@kingofhumanity]

I have a feeling your going to have to do what the America's did in ww2 with there light Cruisers and just add as many 5in guns that you can fit on ever ship you build and just ditch the torpedoes. shoot you can do a Battle ship with just 5ins or 3ins were ever you can fit them

[@TukikoTroy]

Way too many torpedoes in this game. Maybe a better idea would be to only engage with superiority, and even then disengage once damage has been inflicted sufficient to have the enemy's time at sea usefully reduced. Oh and it's Beh-rick, not Bur-wick.

[@MarshmaloWarrior]

The problem with fighting AI in pretty much any game(especially strategy games) is that the AI can(and often will) react instantly to any information it recives. And the AI can keep track of every single piece of information in a way a human player just can not. I really would like to give the campaign a go but the AI just does so many BS things that the battles(at least big fleet battles) just feel lost the moment you load in.

[@Blacktail91]

Fucking KZbin is trying to force me to pay for KZbin premium or whatever the hell they call it. This was a 50 minute video and I encountered no fewer than 35 fucking commercials 😤

[@Stealth17Gaming]

Holy crap that's a lot. Makes for a terrible viewing experience. Not much I can do on my end I'm afraid.

[@Blacktail91]

Bit of an exaggeration but I probably did have to sit through close to 10 interruptions. Super annoying 😒

[@lukefiggins6851]

Historical designs in a game (which is not a simulator) is just asking for trouble. A more reasonable approach would be to apply their design philosophy (bearing in mind their design purpose) to a ship that makes in-game sense. Additionally, you seem to do vastly better when commanding 2 or fewer ships, once you have 5 or more your ability to manage them all is lacking, I'm guessing there's no way to order a ship's captain to show some initiative in executing the ships expected duties like changing direction to avoid imminent torpedoes

[@larandrew77]

Every time I hear you say, "Don't torpedo anything until I tell you to." It is a 2 minutes warning until your torpedo launching ships are going to die, with the torpedos still in the tubes. I know that the AI is good at dodging, but still, any ship that sinks with torps still in the tubes is an instant fail. Not trying to be mean at all, just saying. The rest of the time, you rule the waves!

[@nathand.9969]

Torpedoes cost nothing to replace in game, so if they miss, oh well. At least you had your shot.

[@unclebuck4er467]

Also, when trying to disengage, if they have to turn to avoid torpedoes, your distance from the enemy increases. Does the game take into account closure rate for torpedoe range? I saw you hold torps several times with enemy ships a few km out of range but coming toward you.

[@panzermensch1577]

So. Is it just me, or do the German Campaigns seem to start off with less money, but once you START the campaign, you gain more. This has kicked me in the nuts the last ones I tried to play, 1920 and 30. I could have have a few of each class, and was beaten down to two, two, ships once. Lost. Obviously. Same thing happened in the 1930 Campaign, had like 12 ships compared to the British 83. Like. Come on. And the fleet build up would take too long for it to be of importance

[@advorak8529]

Wellllll ...you get torpedo launch information from the enemy by just looking at their stats. Which is cheating too. I know, you have no other chance than doing that, but the AI needs what you call "unicorn" turning circles for the same reasons, no?

[@lamdaske4532]

Those light shells seem to be acomplishing very little lol

[@Stealth17Gaming]

More than a little annoying though

[@MM22658]

you can go historical, but the ai don't have to do so

[@dragonslayer2107]

Historical is not exactly possible when the biggest threat in this game, torpedoes, is not historically accurate. Torpedoes did not have 100% success rate. Some were duds, some ran too deep, some exploded prematurely, and some went completely off course. With the US there was the disastrous Mark 14 torpedo and its surface ship fired variant the Mark 15 that took an estimated *20 months* to fix. Supposedly, the Mark 13 air dropped torpedoes were not much better but they were flawed in other ways. I have no clue how good German or British torpedoes were as I have trouble finding information on them. But given that Britain is a nation that is all about its navy I would assume that they were pretty reliable.

[@ShionWinkler]

Thankfully, for the HMS Sheffield, British torps also had issues... 🤣

[@dragonslayer2107]

@@ShionWinkler Why do you say thankfully? HMS is a designation given to British naval vessels. So, was there a friendly fire incident or something?

[@Bobis32]

@@dragonslayer2107 yes during the seige on bismark there was a misidentication and the HMS sheffield was hit by something like 11 friendly torps and none went off edit. the Ark Royal's swordfish dropped the torps

[@erandunoreu856]

​@@Bobis32 It was due to the magnetic detonators that those torpedos didnt went off. Ironically, after the swordfish returned to the Ark Royal, the detonators for the torpedos were changed to contact ones during the rearm process, thus when the swordfish made their actual attack on the Bismarck, they carried more reliable torpedos, so you could say that friendly fire incident brought Bismarck to his doom.

[@5675492]

I think IRL ww2 torps ( surface battles ) were single digit accurate . Even the Long Lances . About 1 hit in 20 launches . " T.J. McKearney’s (1985) analysis of the torpedo hit probability during the Solomon Islands campaign reveals an average of 6% for all engagements. " - excerpt from an article on the Japanese Type 93 Long Lance

[@MichaelTheRead]

Instead of getting better with each update, the game seems to be getting worse. I won't be surprised when the day comes that Stealth17 stops playing this.

[@hohenstaufen2345]

You lost my favorite ship😭 you take more care about your destroyers than you battleships

[@sharkk127]

Hey stealth I got this game and decided to play 1910s germany and all I can say is that all I need is bbs and bcs cause my bcs can got 32 knots and both ships are very accurate and well armored, I dont even know how the fuck I did that

[@BMPellogia]

is too hard for the devs to just limit the amount of torpedo launchers for the AI ships? This spamming shitshow is ridiculous

[@jonastemme2837]

First

[@andreasraimov4467]

...

[@orf2A]

You are not first someone beat you to this by 14 minutes

[@jonastemme2837]

@@orf2A ehmm i dont understand

[@jonastemme2837]

@@orf2A i Was there after 35 s

[@jonastemme2837]

@@orf2A so this makes no scens

[@luciancondon]

This is so unfair its doesn't seem like it's fun at all

[@harbrick29]

Major fail!!

[@ryqarst4690]

This game causes massive fps spikes with a 3090, triggers OCP on the PSU nonstop. AI is broken beyond belief. Damage system / models are a complete joke. Campaign is barely there. Besides the god awful coding this is a $5 game.

[@advorak8529]

_This game causes massive fps spikes with a 3090_ You can run the game on an FX 8350 (released end 2012) and RTX 2070 ... I do. No "massive fps spikes", though I do not run 60 or 100 ship naval battles. _triggers OCP on the PSU nonstop_ And how did the game make you choose a PSU that is clearly not capable of powering your computer under full load? Really ... _AI is broken beyond belief._ I do not know your belief system, but I guess to you any AI will be broken, even when it is a human. The AI is not perfect, and never will be. However, the AI usually does a usable job generating ships. (though one "legacy" fleet had a single 7" on a cruiser ... and nothing else, not even a single 2" or torpedo tube. That thing did not work out, but then the USA built dynamite cruisers and rams that were effectively outdated at launch and basically worthless ... so it happens in the real world). The AI does try to do formations without causing collisions, but try is the operative word. Better results are needed here. Alas, in the real world collisions have happened, some of them rather (in)famous, and that is why most navies never got the capability to pull off a Gefechtskehrtwende --- that "trivial" manoeuvre where all ships do a 180° at the same time and now go into the reverse direction --- because you need not just very good crews and captains, you need to drill that again and again and again. A bit of hesitation and you cause a collision. Torpedo evasion is not great, but again --- real world, it is not so great either. Still, more work is needed there. HE/AP choices seem pretty sensible to me, and the choice of targets are usually OK. The manoeuvring of the enemy fleet is all-in-all not too bad --- except for closing in when they run out of large gun ammo and not run when it would be wise to do so ... _Damage system / models are a complete joke._ Says the guy who has a computer where the PSU is a complete (and bad) joke. No, it is not the best damage model, but it is a game, not a simulator and it is workable. _Campaign is barely there._ Guess what --- the developers openly admit they are working on the campaign and the game had no campaign at all for the longest time. Without the battle part of it working at least somewhat, a campaign is not worth it. _Besides the god awful coding_ You have seen their code? You understand their code? You have written serious amounts of code in a large complex project? I do not think you can reasonably gauge the quality of any kind of code, but feel free to convince me otherwise. _this is a $5 game._ You say ... I would disagree, strongly. Your claims point to a lot of self-inflicted problems, so that would make it a $0.005 review.