Troubleshooting Bad Accuracy: A Discussion with Gordy Gritters

[@TerminalM193]

I used to have very poor accuracy from a bench with my 16" 1 to 8 twist Ruger AR 556 but was due to my poor inexperience. I used to rest the barrel on the front bench rest instead of the hand guard the barrel runs through and I would get such poor groups at 100-150 yards and for the longest time I thought it was due to something being wrong with my barrel thus leading me to over cleaning the barrel after every use, "not to the point of damaging the barrel, I always used nylon brushes with a bore guide". One day I was at the range trying different ammo in my AR seeing if that was the issue and a fellow shooter happened to see how I was resting the barrel on the front bench and I guess he could read my frustration and decided to walk over and discuss with me how what I was doing was a horrible method when it came to gathering groups. The reason I put the barrel in the front rest was because of a third party grip I used on the front portion of the hand guard which didn't allow for me to reliably set that portion of my rifle in the rest. He helped me take the handle off, got out his nice range spotter and took the time to work with me in understanding ballistics vs platform and other things but after removing the front grip and resting the hand guard portion on the bench rest I had almost immediate improvement on my groups. It's crazy how such a simple thing was overlooked by me and I'm sure there's others out there that are struggling with the same issue. I'm so grateful that kind man took the time to help me. After he said his goodbyes and I thanked him over and over he left and I've never seen him again. Every time I go to the local range I hope to see him there just so I could thank him again lol! He personally improved my range time enjoyment tenfold.

[@allywilkeforsenate]

I have the same rifle.When I got it it was a tack driver.Now I am trying to figure out what went wrong.

[@TerminalM193]

@@allywilkeforsenate depends on the ammunition you're using as well as keeping a clean chamber but DON'T over clean the barrel. You want copper fouling in the barrel to smooth out the riflings imperfections. Ballistol is all I ever use to clean any part of the gun and she's seen 3k rounds now and is doing great

[@garrettstraffon608]

Yea and you see ranges were they cut out wood notches to rest your gun in. Yea that’s not good. There trying to be nice and do a good thing but that is not good for your shot, and always have both sand bags. Grip and stock

[@TerminalM193]

@@garrettstraffon608 I've got a really nice rest I like to use now but I've been trying to practice just using a front rest as of lately to better work on trigger discipline / proper form and I've been able to see improvement with each range trip. Ultimately I would like to have above average accuracy from a kneeling then standing position at 100 yards... Still have alot of practice needed in that department. Just purchased a hybrid sling that you can make 2 or 1 point.... Hoping that helps a little with kneeling / standing shots.

[@philiparmstead1764]

Gordy Gritters sounds like a top notch guy . I’ve got no gunsmithing experience and engineering experience. just watching this, makes me want to start.

[@jamesheath9385]

Cheap WalMart scope bases and mounts have caused many shooters/hunters to sell ( get rid of ) many accurate rifles for pennies on the dollar.

[@ryancafin7892]

thats why when i bought my compass i put a leupold on it..gun shoots .5 groups at 100 yardd

[@JohnnyJQuest]

@@ryancafin7892 sold my Bergara in favor of my current Compass. More money for ammo

[@horsefly1020]

I had a 6.5 Grendel that would only shoot 4" group at best. Last thing I tried was putting a cheap centerpoint scope on it and shot one raged hole. Found out my vortex razor wasn't holding zero.

[@youtubestolemyhandle1]

@@horsefly1020 Good to know. Appreciate that.

[@RetrieverTrainingAlone]

Clickable Outline: 1:45 Example questions: bullet/twist rate?, shooter flinching?, excessive shoulder bump? 4:11 Rifle problems: headspace, twist rate, borescope exam, slug barrel, muzzle brake, rough surface, crown, 6:37 Bolt exam 7:00 Barrel harmonics 7:21 Firing pin 7:27 Bedding 8:02 Barrel channel free floating barrel 8:32 Trigger/Scope 9:20 New barrel? 9:40 Tighten action screws to determine stock bed problem 10:25 Loose scope mounts 10:45 Don't loose hope, take out one variable at a time 11:20 Get the DVD

[@richardsveum8452]

Gordy was my go to gunsmith when he was in Pella, Iowa. Miss having him around.

[@cs_yt]

It pays off that my daytime job is IT problem solving. Not only the approach I have to accuracy is similar, but also I don't allow anyone to work on my cars. The tip on the muzzle brake is something I"ll add to my list. Thanks for sharing!

[@FishFind3000]

cccssscccsss2 yea I’m slowly not using shops anymore as I can’t find any good ones. There’s only 1 I trust be he doesn’t work on everything. So I’m having to trust nitwits and it’s not working out.

[@edwarddouglaspierce]

I love the process - for me I always start with me. I found that coffee before a range day is not a good combo with high magnification optics. Also, sandbag up front and sock full of rice in the back. one rifle needed a compensator. then i research twist vs projectile weight. it's incredible how different barrels like different projectiles. then i try different ammo. lastly, if using an optic, checking scope mounts - twice in my life did I find that the scope wasn't torqued to spec which is why I always bring my Wheeler Fat Wrench when zeroing in a rifle for accuracy. thus far, this has kept me happy with my repeatability.

[@dinoc.5537]

Happy New Year!!! Gordy’s outline for an end to end troubleshooting was refreshing to hear! Those bbl slugging comments are right in line with the wisdom from Bill Calfee’s comments on rimfire barrels. It would be awesome to see either you or Gordy demonstrate the slugging of good and bad barrel threading jobs. Great discussion!

[@clinkerclint]

I agree!!! I'd love to see a slugging video. BTW, last year I had the opportunity to shoot a Calfee 52C. Amazing rifle. I bought his book after I shot one of his rifles!!!

[@RichardCasto]

To be fair, he probably didn't show details on slugging as that is in one of his DVDs that he is selling. I did just purchase one of his books and DVD after watching this.

[@RichardCasto]

Received the DVD on troubleshooting and he does demo slugging the barrel including showing examples of problem barrels.

[@dinoc.5537]

@@RichardCasto I'm going to order up to show support for his awesome work. Thanks and Happy New Year!

[@2charlesbryant]

Gordy a national treasure for the rifle for our community.

[@VG-913]

Most people I encounter who have trouble shooting Good groups either don't have their barrel floated (most factory stocks especially rugers have warped stocks that pinch the barrel.) Or they rest their rifle on the barrel causing the harmonics to be off. Simple stuff.

[@davewattles7237]

I see in the background above Gavin what looks to be a Snap On toolbox with a sticker discouraging asking to borrow tools. That sticker goes back a ways!! Excellent video with great concepts to be considered.... Bless you, thank you for putting it out.

[@autom8ed]

I bet I can shrink Gordys groups in half.. - Decaf

[@TheTmshuman]

That’s no exaggeration for me

[@mprud2579]

lol bradda is pumped

[@hotchihuahua1546]

I have learned a lot from the experts over the years and capitalized on their expertise to improve my groups . My most important shot is the first one on game ! Range shooting is mainly to assure myself nothing has changed each year before I go on a hunt . I owe that to any game I harvest and put on the table !

[@caseysetsodi1990]

I’d listen to Gordy, have some of his work in my safes and they all shoot perfect along with some excellent custom made does. Bummer he left Iowa

[@LarryGenePate]

Never met Gordy but i have several Prairiedog hunters that have his rifles and his rifles shoot great and are top notch!!

[@thewatcher611]

Seeing these comments about shops and mechanics is exactly why I left the industry. Too many bad shadetrees, giving us real techs a bad name. When you take your car to 5 different shops, and nobody can figure it out...I was the last stop you had to make. That story was very common. It was a good hobby, but not a great occupation, nobody appreciates a good mechanic these days, especially the shop owners. That's why it's tough to find one that isn't too busy to help you. Unfortunately, even if you get the best grades in tech school, or flag the most hours in the shop, and have little to no comebacks, you're still in an industry where it is not required to have any education, and in most cases, any certifications. But, thanks for the video. Hope you find a good tech someday.

[@cliffbannister1331]

After 40 years in the industry I can absolutely agree John B. Quality 'Technicians" are few and far between. The best guys/gals get sucked up by other industries that are able to pay them for their skills. I can't tell you how many quality 'gunsmiths' went this way just to feed their families and get ahead... just reality.

[@dead1eye848]

not all auto techs are like that... 25 years experience as a mechanic and I'm very accurate with diagnostics on the vehicles I repair. not a cool assumption to make. love the video very informative.

[@jonathanwright8511]

Someone hit a nerv

[@dead1eye848]

@@jonathanwright8511 nope just making my statement. thanks for the useful insight into your reply

[@slatsgrobneck7515]

I agree, my mechanic is awesome at diagnosis. That is why he is booked out almost 2 months in advance. But I am happy to wait, because it is worth it. Hes a gem, and I let him know it.

[@huntfishfightfire]

I love the look and feel of a beautiful walnut stock on a hunting rifle. I have a Henry single shot in 308 win with a beautiful wood stock. It is a joy to carry and very handy. Unfortunately it has the worst trigger you have ever experienced, the wood stock is tight to the barrel, and Wisconsin weather is dry then wet then dry then freezing then hot. If I could get this rifle so shoot a 2 1/2 group at 100' I would be so happy. I don't think it can

[@Ilovebanjos]

Question is, how consistent is your cold bore shot. A rifle like yours is in a basic hunting configuration and that is what almost always matters most.

[@toddb930]

Accuracy problems are usually due to ME - inconsistent tension in the shoulder.

[@pauli2559]

I'm wondering if I can glass bed my savage 10t accue-stock?

[@TeensierPython]

Best gunsmith ever! Built me a fantastic 6.5x284.

[@jcarry5214]

man I REALLY like this guy.

[@dannyboy5272]

I bought a Desert Tech MDRX 223 with High Hopes hoping that it would be an accurate rifle. Took it out and shot it, and the accuracy was horrible. I sent it back to Desert Tech. They called me and explained that the rifle was within spec. They sent it back to me, And I continued to try different loads in it. It still shot horribly. I screwed a reflex suppressor on the rifle. My accuracy increased, not by a lot but it was noticeable. I shot the rifle without the brake on it. The groups were just as horrible as with the brake on. I machined a barrel tensioning tube and installed it on the barrel. My groups shrunk exponentially. The rifle is capable of great accuracy, but the pencil barrel that Desert Tech chose to use on this platform in order to cut down weight on an already heavy rifle, was very, very detrimental to its inherit accuracy. I went from shooting inch- inch a half, to 2 inch groups at 50 yards to shooting one hole at 50 yards shooting 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards, instead of five and six inch groups at that same range.

[@randomidiot8142]

Tensioned barrels will get more popular as time goes on and people figure out the benefits on lower end guns. Most of my airguns I've done have tensioned barrels for a reason; harmonics and soda straw barrels don't vibe well.

[@randalloc]

Would be nice to see that LIST !!! Gavin did you get one to share???

[@twintwo1429]

If I have an accuracy problem, the first thing I do is switch to one or more other guns that I have had good accuracy with. If I can still shoot them accurately, then the problem with the first gun is probably not my form. Then I start trouble shooting the 1st gun.

[@Hudson4426]

I have a remington 700 long range in .300 win mag that had a bad barrel replaced by factory. Sent it back again because I couldn’t do better than 3” groups and all they did was re crown it. I’ve tried multiple quality factory ammo loads with no good groupings. Scope is a burris xtr2 and all seekins hardware. I’m left with a rifle that wasn’t cheap that shoots like crap.. not happy

[@satched]

Accuracy issues started hornady stopped making 162 amax in 7mm. 5 shots in one raggered hole. Rifle hates the new elds.

[@darrellblanchard2362]

Just curious. Have you played with seating depth? Some of the newer bullets like a jump to the rifling.

[@therealboomhower9209]

Hey it’s Gordy he’s my old gunsmith and I went to school with his kid

[@bigal25938]

Dude should have been an auctioneer.

[@Midwesternlifestyle]

As i had this video playing i was measuring a barrel nut with a depth mic. I got a colt AR-15A4 to clone the M16A4 and had accuracy problems since i bought it 3 years ago. I just didn’t take it out enough to really test what was wrong with it. I thought it might be me, maybe the ACOG i put on it was defective. Then i realized i was getting a consistent 10 MOA vertical string with only 4 minutes of horizontal spread. I wound up removing the knights handgaurd, shooting off a magazine and shooting my M4 clone right next to it with the same optic swapped from one rifle to the other and finally proved it was the gun. Colt customer service refused to take it so i decided i had to pull it apart and look at it myself. Fit between the extension and upper is fine, the face of the upper threads looks fine, the barrel nut measures flat all the way around on the inside so the only thing it could be is the bore. I don’t own a bore scope but i can clearly see, looking through the chamber end with the barrel held upright, there’s a dark spot in the lands about 3 inches before the gas port in the upper left hand corner of the bore. I can safely say i have a blemished barrel, but the problem is finding a suitable replacement when A2/A4 barrels with all the proper features, specifically cold hammer forging is difficult when this barrel length and profile is obsolete. The best thing i can find is surplus that comes stripped and undrilled for a front sigh base which means i’ll either have to outsource the work, or buy the equipment to drill and ream taper pin holes to finally have a functional M16A4 clone.

[@MrLeoestby]

Had issue with a sako L461 (vixen) in 222rem. Found the issue to be a loose set screw in the firing pin. And the protrusion was 0.124" on the firing pin. Adjusted it to 0.059" protrusion and set the setscrew back in again. The vixen has threaded firing pins. Now the ignition of the gun is much better.

[@mikecollins8241]

Ammo, bedding, crown and loose scopes/mounts have caused 90% of my issues, with over 30 rifles and 20+ years of shooting and reloading.. if fixing those don't get a gun to shoot, then it's time to sell or re barrel ;)

[@endutubecensorship]

Rifle shooting inconsistently? My first go to is to check *ALL* the screws are torqued properly. Stock/base/ring screws can get loose and cause problems, a bit of *blue* loctite and a proper torque wrench can cure a lot.

[@robertpenman7312]

I really appreciated what you do and all your material. I am having a nightmare with my Blaser R8. I purchased in back in early 2021 and have been struggling ever since. The plan was to purchase a 22-250 barrel first then move to a bigger bore. As stocks were low and there was issues getting them into Australia at the time I took what was on the shelf at the time. 300 Win Mag I have spent countless hours trying different things with reloading to get it to shot any good. I have tested loads at 0,018 jump through to 0.050 jump. None of which really seemed to work. The rifle seems to kick, twist and jump to the right. After trying this over some months my 22-250 barrel arrived. I stopped testing with 300 Win Mag and started with it. Again I tried from 0,018 jump to even more crazy jump. I found that Remington box ammunition seemed to shot the best so started testing at factory jump which was out at 0.120 jump where it seemed to work. I have no idea where to go with the 300 Win Mag and would like to know if anyone else has expirenced a similar issue with the Blaser R8.

[@bustabass9025]

When I leave the range fresh from printing half-inch MOA's in five shot groups of handloaded 100 grain BarnesTTSX, then get a hundred yard shot at a big mulie with my .257 Wby, and he doesn't go down in his tracks, but takes off, leaving only a scant, intermittent blood drip trail...I know it's not the gun!😖 Keep forgetting they make them Bog Pod dealies for a reason.

[@macolson1433]

Great discussion!

[@musicman1eanda]

Frankly if I didn't know the shooter personally, I'd assume they're causing their accuracy issues with their technique or incorrect setup. And that's if they even truly have a legit problem. I'm guilty of this as well, but you can get sucked in to seeing dudes online shooting 1/2MOA at 1000yds and think you have to achieve that. But do you NEED to? What are YOUR exact accuracy needs?

[@aaronunterseher1627]

individuals should be actively trying to achieve that level accuracy. Gun owner regardless of your purposes can't be to accurate but can always be not accurate enough... The old school idea of being able to hit a paper plate is good enough for deer isn't a good outlook... Iv seen those same people botch a shot wounding deer into long hikes and slow deaths... There also tons of examples of people botching there shots in defensive encounters and ultimately loosing there life as a result of it... Whether by prison time for collateral casualties or loosing there life by getting shot themselves before they could get good rounds on target... You cant miss fast enough to win a gunfight..

[@theshootindutchman]

Gordy is the man!😄

[@Ultimatereloader]

Yes indeed!

[@Calaveras32Spcl]

Had accuracy issues with my Ruger American in 223. Was shooting exclusively Federal American Eagle 50 grain poly tipped. First round would be on, they would walk out 2 inches at a time after that. Buddy figured out the slugs were to light for my twist. Switched to 55 grain bulk ammo to test and now my groups are sized based on my skill (1 - 1.5 MOA).

[@redneckninja2539]

Check your barrel twist, if it's 1/7 you may find even heavier stuff like 64 to 77 gr bullets. Made a huge difference in my .223. It doesn't remotely like anything under 63 grain.

[@wayne-oo]

Would love to see a video on how to save a copper fouled barrel , or at least if it's worth trying to fix ...

[@K-bob_45]

Call the people at boretech. Their eliminator cleaner pulls copper out as well as Barnes but it CANNOT ruin your barrel. If you leave a high ammonia cleaner in the bore it can ruin it. I called them about another product and they told me not to buy it. How refreshing is that?

[@RetrieverTrainingAlone]

@@K-bob_45 Ammonia based cleaners removes copper effectively but can create tiny microfractures in the lands.

[@K-bob_45]

Missy Skeeter eliminator isn’t ammonia based.

[@rodgerfrederick2835]

I love the trigger on that thing I am shooting for today Whitetail American Factory ammo I'm just learning to reload

[@texassportsman5880]

Let's first look at reasonable expectations. The average deer rifle is capable of MOA accuracy with over the counter ammo in a controlled environment. When you make it out to the field your accuracy will suffer because you're not shooting from a bench. Secondly, your average rifle is not a custom precision rifle where you'd use custom handloads. So don't expect groups the size of a dime at each distance. Thirdly, look at yourself. How familiar are with your rifle and scope. Do you have the discipline and focus to be that accurate marksman? Do you understand windage and elevation? Can you read the wind, the angle at which you're shooting, up or down angle. Can you accurately calculate and make those adjustments on the fly? So think about what type of accuracy do you reasonably expect based on your own abilities and the equipment you have or can afford. Once you know all of these items then we can talk about accuracy issues or perceived issues.

[@theremnant216]

VERY good points. I have had to adjust my expectations based on the fact that I don't yet have the knowledge or the experience to match the accuracy I see from some shooters on KZbin even with the same rifle, ammo, scope or other accessories. You make excellent points here!

[@texassportsman5880]

@@theremnant216 The average rifle and ammo that's available at your local gun store is capable of the accuracy necessary out to 400 yards. The kill zone of the average deer is about 12 to 13 square inches. Any hit inside will bring down a deer. In theory and practice you wouldn't need groups the size of a quarter for deer hunting. You have a large margine to err and still be successful. My setup is a Browning X-Bolt, .30-06, Leupold VX-5HD and $19/box Hornady American Whitetail 150gr PSP. This gets me groups the size of a half dollar at 100 yards. More than adequate to kill a deer. I need to practice from a prone, sitting position and using a tree and shooting sticks to rest the rifle. The group will open up because it's easier to keep a rifle steady from a concrete bench than from those positions. As long as I can place a shot inside that 12 to 13 square inches I'll be successful.

[@yukon4545]

Good job, again. Looks like UR has fodder for many troubleshooting videos in the future.

[@Ultimatereloader]

Exactly! Lot's to cover in-depth!

[@conservativesniperhunter7439]

Too bad I can’t get Gordy’s DVD’s delivered to Australia 🇦🇺😢 . I’ll have to wait for Gavin to make some DVD’s someday, hopefully he’ll be able to ship them Down Under 😄

[@Toysrme]

Jim Gourlas why not? Shipping? There are lots of in-between party shipping services

[@conservativesniperhunter7439]

@ Toysrme Thanks mate I’ll look into it to see if someone can ship Gordy’s DVD’s overseas. Cheers

[@jward9637]

Thank you Gordy!! What a wealth of knowledge!! He brought up stuff I never even thought about. My big problem is still my Bergara B14 chambered in 6.5 PRC! I cannot get this thing to shoot worth a shit! I've literally tried every commercially available ammo out there. Including the ammo Bergera uses to test fire this rifle. With all due respect to Bergara I have not allowed them a chance to get involved with this situation yet because I've been in the process of moving for 8 months and just completed that. Thank you Lord! I watched your video about the muzzle brake, but did you shoot the rifle without it before attaching the can? I also have a buddy who has been an avid reloader for decades and he also has a 6.5 PRC he cannot get his to shoot descent groups either (Not a Bergara). Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks - Seamus

[@JSomerled]

Would love to hear Gordy talk about chambering for accuracy

[@jrburge4674]

a Zastava M48 commercial action, 7x57. Douglas XX barrel 1/10 twist. I believe the trigger is a Boyd? It is set a 2 lbs and breaks clean with no overtravel. Can't remember exactly the brand. Leupold steel standard 1 piece base with Leupold steel rings and a Leupold VX3 scope (scope has been attached to other rifles both before and after, and holds zero perfectly). glass bedded into a Boyd's laminate stock. Cannot get consistent groups. Been handloading for 30 years. I've used from 120 grain cup and cores to 175 partitions. Homogenous bullets as well. Experimented with seating depths from .001 off lands to book length all in .002 increments. Powders from IMR4320, H4350, IMR 4350, IMR 4064, Varget, Big Game, Hunter, Reloder15, 19, Norma 204, MRP, W760, and more. I have put over 200 different loads through it. I don't scrub the barrel. I use Wipe Out and Gunslick (when it was still being made). I have a bore scope and check periodically so that when I want to get down to metal I am certain I am there. I do use nylon brushes from time to time when I see a lot of carbon fouling. I shoot off a front and rear bag. I've been a competition rifle shooter since 1992. High Power and CMP. I cannot for the life of me get consistent groups. It will shoot factory Hornady Superformance 139 GMXs consistently at 1.25". Will it kill a deer? Absolutely, and it has killed many. However, I saved for years to have this rifle built and since I doesn't have consistency, it has fallen out of favor with me and honestly, it saddens me. I have other Mausers that shoot very well. My accuracy standard is 1" averages or better. I actually have many Mauser rifles that hold this standard, with ease. I hold the velocity to "if it ain't broke don't fix it" 7x57 standards: 140s at 2700, etc. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

[@ShastaBean]

Will post the link in following comment, as sometimes they make the comment appear for me, but nobody else when a link is included... Title: 338 Lapua Advanced Reloading, Part 12 Channel: Quarter Minute Magnums Q.M.M. Time: 7:49 He goes on for a few minutes about barrels and how some are just different, even within high-quality manufacturers, 1 or 2 out of 10 might be bad. It may not apply to your situation, but his point is that with all of the variables, it could be any one, or combination of multiple variables that the gun will just never shoot. With all you mentioned in your post, it's clear you have considered many, if not most. You could still find that one thing wrong with your attempts, but when it comes down to it, you just might have gotten a bad one. Best of luck.

[@EpikArms]

Great video, lots of stuff i needed to know.

[@philippefrater2000]

Troubleshooting needs discipline. From A to Z. You're right. That's why everyone that's got a problem with its gun come to me. I'm not an armorer, but i know enough to solve problems most of times... 🖖🏻🇫🇷😎🇫🇷😎🇫🇷🖖🏻

[@stevencline1041]

Well, honestly, when I ask why my rifle doesn't shoot well, the answer is usually," Operator error." But that might just be me.

[@nmelkhunter1]

I my case, it’s usually the nut that holds the stock. Just sayin’…

[@stephaniemikeal5871]

code 77 = Operator error. happens to me more than I admit too.

[@stephaniemikeal5871]

@@nmelkhunter1 Love it.. ima use this one if ya don't mind.

[@nmelkhunter1]

@@stephaniemikeal5871 I can’t the credit for that so feel free!

[@mensoDAgoon]

Some guns are lemons are bad designed

[@redbear1517]

Always love it when I take a newbie shooting and they say the guns are Inaccurate

[@codyhummel2366]

If you ever have grouping issues the very first thing to check is basses and mounts. Still wont group swap out scope. Still not great? Grab some shells from the store. If you cant get at minimum a 2" group at 100yrds with factory ammo it needs some work. Hand the rifle to a friend have them shoot it. It might be as they pointed out all on you as a shooter

[@ronmartblog]

Good video Gavin 👍🏻

[@Ultimatereloader]

Thanks buddy!

[@aklaunch]

I normally change powders 1 time. If that does not work i change the color of the bullet box.

[@theunofficialresults231]

Have a .243 Winchester XTR that I had trouble with. Bedded the action and free floated the barrel, getting it to finally shoot 1 load with 80g gamekings. I was trying 70g Noslers, and 100g blitzkings with mixed results, nothing under 1-1/2" group. The bore was rough, so I tried loading up someTubb's final finish bullets with no noticeable difference. I then went to Hornady 65's and 58's with good results, under 1" 5 shot groups. Even got it to shoot 95g Hornady's (flat base) in about 1-1/2" groups when I couldn't get anywhere close to that with the Sierras. Weird how the bullet manufacturer switch or even just the slightest grain difference can make the difference. Just like animals, sometimes you just gotta find what they like to eat.

[@nvlaser9084]

$1500 for a week. What a bargain. About the same price for a semester worth of Manual Machining at local community college.

[@jaydunbar7538]

Not really comparable, general machining to highly specialized accurizing. You plan to compare your high school typing class to the MIT doctorate program next?

[@nvlaser9084]

@@jaydunbar7538 You are high. You can take an average machinist and he can EASILY build an incredibly accurate rifle. These are easy and basic operations down to about half a thou or ten thou. Setup is setup. It is much Harder for a gunsmith (and buy this, someone who builds precision guns) to become a machinist than the other way around.

[@larslake]

Gavin; A great video by the way. There's no substitution for accuracy. Trying to get the most out of a cartridge and still maintain accuracy is challenging to say the least. Some cartridges are much easier to work with than others. A few years ago, I did a lot of testing with various primers. I highly recommend conducting your initial load development with CCI Bench rest primers. The reason being is to establish a base line with the consistent ignition these primers produce.

[@michaelsanders4684]

Have a brand-new Savage Axis in 7mm-08 20" barrel, couldn't get better than about 2" groups with Hornady 139g Interlocks. After chrono, found them traveling approx 2800fps. After working up test groups of 139g Interlocks, 140g Nosler BT and 140g TTSX, got groups 0.57"-1.15". Of the 5 test powder loads of each bullet, one or more of the groups had bullet holes touching or 2 bullets through the same hole. The most accurate groups were in the 2509-2615 fps range.

[@whatstheproblem6606]

Michael Sanders I have one too,inconsistent shots,which bullet weight n which powder n charge worked best for you as I'm trying to reload a consistent round also,however don't have a large selection of powder to choose from as everyone is sold out. I'll take 0.57"-1.00"

[@michaelsanders4684]

@@whatstheproblem6606 Hi Dana; Presently the 140g Barnes TTSX are a little over a half an inch, running 2757fps with 40.3g of Winchester 748 in Hornady brass and CCI primers. My next favorite load is 140g Nosler Ballistic Tips at around 3/4 inch, running 2615fps with 38.9g Varget in Hornady brass and CCI primers. Both arrive at virtually the same zero.

[@michaelsanders4684]

@@whatstheproblem6606 Also, two other things that were done to the rifle, first I had to get rid of the weaver scope and replaced it with a Leupold vx1 3-9x40 scope. The second thing I noticed was that the cross hairs dipped when pulling the trigger. The trigger group pivots on the bottom of the receiver and was rocking up on the rear pillar. I shaped 2 flat pieces of brass to rest between the trigger group and receiver. After that centered the barrel in the stock while pushing it to the rear and torqueing the action screws to 40 inch pounds.

[@whatstheproblem6606]

Michael Sanders I'm just shooting factory loads now, gonna reload as soon as I get everything I need, however I did a weaver picanny rail mounted with vortex 3-9-40 n Boyd's hardwood stock shooting Hornsby 139 gr sp oh an it's a savage axis

[@cleatussfmo7437]

I've got a 6.5creedmoor. Was challenged to a 10 shot challenge by a friend. I can put 7 rounds on a .285 hole, but 8, 9, and 10 fly out to almost 3/4 inch at 100 yards. I've tried longer/shorter time between shots, different resting techniques, and several different load options within my database, but cant seem to get the full 10 in under a half inch.

[@cleatussfmo7437]

Oh...its an Ruger precision.

[@fjb4932]

Cleatus, Iffen it were me, i'd shoot those first 7 rds on the 1st day, then rds 8, 9, and 10 over the next three days, one rd per day, on that same target. I'd make dead-nutts damn sure those last three rounds were right on before i touched'er off. See what'cha got then. And just for S&G, i'd shoot 7 rds on a target, then switch to another target and shoot 7 or 10 rounds into it and see where she likes to shoot when warmed up. Now, that's what i'm ah thinking ...

[@bradywebb1311]

2020 Gavin: "Let's diagnose why the gun doesn't shoot." 2024 Gavin: "Let's start by putting a barrel on it." 😁 Just playing around. I'm learning a LOT from your channel! Thank you!

[@freedomlover425]

Thanks for the tip about holding the for end instead of just letting it rest with heavier calibers. Going to try that with my 375 H&H next time out.

[@gearhead682010]

If you pull the weapon tight to your shoulder with Magnum calibers the recoil is more tolerable, my Savage model 110 chambered in 7mm Remington Mag with a wood stock is comfortable enough that you can actually shoot it with one hand basically. The .300 Mag on the other hand it’s not really advisable to use the one handed hold

[@freedomlover425]

@@gearhead682010 I have no problem with the felt recoil of the 375, but I believe my accuracy is being affected by the muzzle jump when I shoot it from a rest. Holding the forend down like what was talked about in the video should help with that. When I shoot it standing or kneeling I make good hits, including a tasty doe since my prior comment, but when I shoot it bench rested it won't group.

[@randomidiot8142]

Told my 110 lb sister to rest the offhand on the scope turrets when she was shooting. Slowmo showed straight back recoil, she went through two boxes of ammo her first day shooting it. Took a prone bipod shot on a coyote with the same rifle, a 30-06. I pulled the first shot and winged it, and saw the hit in the scope. 1: I knew it was a bad shot immediately 2: I had recoil mitigated as much as possible. I had the second shot ready before the coyote rolled over and popped it's head up.

[@freedomlover425]

@@randomidiot8142 Yeah that's a good technique. I've been using my off hand to manipulate the rear bag under the stock for elevation control. The rifle really jumps. Usually it comes completely out of the U notch on the front rest and comes to rest on the upper right side. With the 260-300 grain bullets there's also very noticeable torque from the rifling. Next time I shoot it from a bench I'll use my off hand to hold it down into the rest and see if that stops the wild groups. Every standing or kneeling shot I've made with this rifle has been a good hit, it's just been somewhat unpredictable from the bench.

[@lespotter8293]

Bought a new rifle in 300 win mag for long range shooting and new scope. Factory Federal ammo shot 4" groups. 2 different kinds of a Federal ammo, same bullet weight. Started working up hand loads. Shrunk groups, but they were not staying consistent. Changed loads. Got it close. Sometimes sub-MOA (barely). Sometimes several would shoot a vertical line. Then another group would be triangle. Quite often, it was two touching and one flyer. In at least one such group, the second shot was the flyer. This is the most common pattern. But then it started migrating.The scope was centered and set to be 1-1/2 high at 100 (for about a 250 yard zero), the next day, they all shot an inch to the right. But a subsequent group would then come to center. Then another splayed out everywhere. Then another closer but an inch low. 3 touching and 2 flyers. This is all from a sandbag position. Today, no bipod to see what it would change. Normally, a bipod and rear bag. Have toyed with different handholds and seating depth. Found a node for seating depth at .020 to .026 jump. So I set it at .021. Accuracy seemed to respond better with hotter load. Went from 76 gr. H1000 to 77.5. But then accuracy deteriorated. Checked screws on scope and action screws set at factory inch pounds. There had been a little copper fouling. Cleaned it. Didn't change anything. I have narrowed it down to two things. Either the rifle cannot shoot or the brand new scope is screwy. Had the exact same model of scope on another rifle that had been a tack driver. Rifle responded similarly. Changed load and it got better, but not good. Finally took scope off and put old one back on. Back to driving tacks. The scope is from a reputable company. Is it possible that I got two bad scopes? I don't have another scope to try. Do bad scopes behave like this, shooting relatively close groups that respond to load changes and seating depth, but still not consistently hitting sub-moa? any help is appreciated.

[@ShastaBean]

Have you tried a different bullet weights? You mentioned changing loads, but not clear if that includes the bullet weight. Also, the type/brand of bullet? Same with powder - tried different than the H1000? Another factor to track is the barrel temp, or at least what patterns, if any, are seen as you fire more rounds. So many variables, but if you haven't changed the bullet type/weight & powder type - then there's two big ones that can be tested and results tracked & compared. I'm pretty new to all of this, but I have several types of powder and can see clear differences when I change either one of those two; the bullet type/weight & powder type (burn-rate) - and then in concert with all of the other variables you mentioned within those changes; seating, charge-weight, fouling, etc.

[@lespotter8293]

@@ShastaBean Since I wrote this, I found the problem. I had the gun glass-bedded. It is a Bergara, and I thought they came accurate out of the box. It is now very accurate. It will put 3 shots in one ragged hole at 100 yards with the bipod. So the problem is now fixed. My load is 208 grain Hornady ELD-M with 77.5 grains H-1000. Bullet seating depth is .090 jump from the lands. We have taken some meat with it. My16 yr old daughter used it to take an Antelope at 575 yards yesterday. Perfect shot, clean kill. We are loving it now. If I could do it all over again, I would have taken it to the gunsmith the first day and had it glass-bedded right out of the box. That would have saved me a lot of frustration and $$.

[@ShastaBean]

@@lespotter8293 ​ I would have assumed the same, esp w/a nice rifle like those. I'll be storing away that tidbit of info...this is one of those hobbies that as I learn more, I find out how little I know. Thanks for sharing & glad you worked it out. Can only imagine how frustrating it was. But on the other hand, how satisfying it also was to solve it. Am also not disappointed to see your choice in the ELD-M. It's what has been giving me the clear best results so far in the two .338 LMs I started to load for. Now if I could only get either or both of the daughters interested enough to get out and get them a trophy. congrats!

[@stevejacoby505]

How can I get that check sheet?

[@ronnieloy7394]

I have a 20 inch 6.5 Grendel on the AR platform with a 1x8 twist. I did build the lower but the upper is factory. First box of ammo I bought was hornady black (ELD match) 123 gr. Does not shoot worth a damn in that rifle. If I switch to 90 federal tnt loads, it shoots exactly how I would expect the inherently accurate cartridge to. I guess my question would be is this an ammunition issue being the eld’s or is it a twist rate problem. Haven’t had a chance to try any other offerings in ammo for the 6.5.

[@jefflemaster2850]

It could just be the ammo- I have a 6.5g and I’ve tried several brands in it. I get 1.5 to 1.75” groups with 123gr amax but with cheap 120gr PPU it shoots dime size groups. Good luck

[@bradleyswasey6778]

Awesome video. I have a couple of stories the first one being I bought a customized Mauser k98 8mm. I wanted to check the bore diameter on it because as you may know there is a possibility of running into a smaller bore of .312 I believe, verses standard .323 of the k98. So I bought a slug kit and as it turned out mine is the .323 but a friend has a customized k98 as well and he was telling me that his wasn't nearly as accurate as it used to be. I brought over my kit and he slugged his barrel and it was .323 as well. He was shooting Remington ammunition that was the smaller diameter. After that he tried some hand loads he shrunk his group size from like 3 or 4 inches @ 100 yards down to under an inch.

[@cugir321]

Mauser's usually had thousands of rounds through them.....it's rare to get one that shoots great. a lot of times the throat is shot out. Under an inch is unusual for any military gun except maybe a K31.

[@IowaBuckSlayer]

I have an MVP from Mossberg currently in transit from a gunsmith because it was inaccurate after fitting a custom 350 legend heavyweight barrel. I know for a fact that the bolt touches the stock and was not diagnosed by the gunsmith. I’ll take it upon myself to see if fixing this will make a difference

[@bobbertee5945]

But its still a Mossberg....

[@planeiron241]

350 small block...ditch the 350 and go with a 6xc 6 dasher. 6 bra 6br...use cartridges that are accurate to start with..that tuning is all they need

[@tonygslc801]

@@planeiron241 you forgot the 6 GT😕 👊😎🇺🇸

[@planeiron241]

@@tonygslc801 anything that shoots great with little work yes..GT is good to go

[@heywire101]

We are that thorough. ~ master auto tech.

[@Ultimatereloader]

No insult intended, I was referring to the experience many have had at auto shops where it's "guess and check" parts replacement. A good auto mechanic is a valuable asset!!!! (and yes, they can be just as thorough)

[@heywire101]

gavintoobe I was busting balls. There are plenty of guys that just “throw darts”

[@RangerCaptain11A]

@@heywire101 just load all the parts into the Cannon and fire away.

[@FishFind3000]

gavintoobe theres no guessing and checking. It’s guessing and charging the customer for unnecessary parts. That still doesn’t solve the issue.

[@charlesmckinley29]

Thank you Gavin and Gordy for another informative video. I'll check out you DVDs and books.

[@notsocommonsensed2754]

I have the exact same 300 rum Remington 700 long range you did a series with. Mine doesn’t have a brake, Timney trigger and glass bedded and still best I can get is 1.25-1.5”@100. I torques the scope rings and base, shot it. Re torqued all that. All factory ammo and shot everything from 175 gr to 220. Going to try hand loads and hope that I can get better accuracy. If that doesn’t work it’s getting re-barreled. Any advice I’ll take

[@snowplow7883]

Cold bore wonder, 3 shot nightmare, new Weatherby backcountry 2.0 in 308. True 3 cold bore, fouled group is sub .75 MOA, 3 shot string has 1st shot perfect, second shot random 1.5” away from 1st shot, 3 rd shot even further away. Barrel broken in to OEM specs. No copper fouling… last cold bore group was under 1.5” at 330 yards with light and variable wind… where should I start to look for gremlins? Rifle has been to Weatherby twice already and meets their guarantee and warranty

[@ValcoBayrunner]

I shoot a Winchester model 70 stainless classic in 338 win mag. First shot is usually dead on at point of aim at 100 yards. Next 2 shots , group opens up to 1.5-2". Is that common in magnums from barrel heating up ? My gun has custom HS precision stock and is bedded. I think that barrel is low quality, one of the last guns the old factory made before FN bought them.

[@boredboiseboy]

If you are firing them rapid fire, sure.

[@kalindanley2843]

Where do we get his Check-list? or was that his personal property hes selling? if selling where at?> the links are "page not found"

[@billy19461]

Has anyone figured out why one barrel from a great barrel maker drives tacks and the next barrel shoots crazy.

[@randomidiot8142]

Or why one can be fast and the next slow even though the inspection says they're *identical. *Because no two things are *exactly* the same. It's just kind of accepted and the best guys buy multiple barrels at a time chambered the same. Some are for fire forming, some are for practice, some are for competition.

[@johnl5974]

How do you quantify precision? C.E.P.? Group diameter?

[@RangerCaptain11A]

repeatable results?

[@planeiron241]

2s or better that bein 0.2 or .08 is super

[@crabwalk1891]

Repeatable GOOD results, 1/2 moa or better and single digit SD, for me anyhow. I also like to check my MOA (group size) at 200 yards verses 100, looking for 1” or better.

[@johnl5974]

For several years I wrestled with how to statistically quantify precision, finally ran into C.E.P. - sciencing.com/calculate-circular-error-probability-8701777.html

[@patrickscheel3943]

Great video!! I have a good one for you: Assume everything in ammo prep/shooting form etc has been done right: Fierce 7mmRM 8.5" twist CANNOT shoot a 160gr AB or 175gr LRAB in a group much worse than 0.5", usually running .25"That includes hand loads for each bullet with multiple different powder types and seating depths AS WELL as both types of nosler factory ammo shooting equally good groups (velocity tuning for better ES doesnt vary groups much) HOWEVER: The rifle in question cannot do better than .75" with ANY (and all!) combinations of: Powders- retumbo, h1000, h4831 Cci 250/ fed215gm primers Meticulously prepped brass (including primer pocket uniforming, annealing, and neck turning) And the following bullet combos- Hammer 143, barnes 145 LRX, 175 eldx, 160 NP 175 NP. Tried all of the combos with all of the things and double check each time at the range to confirm with the AB's that it shoots well. From all this shooting the bbl is close to 1k through the pipe and will be replaced. (Duh I hunt with the AB) I'm curious what your thoughts are on bullet construction and possibly the effect of the way the chamber/ lands are cut that cause this.

[@larslake]

I've dealt with many rifles like this. Assuming all of the other things being equal. I start by looking at the differences in the barrels. Length, chambering,crown, throat/lead,grooves and, what I think is important, the contour.

[@donaldgarringer7117]

The links say not found for Gordy's dvd and classes

[@renebilodeau4243]

Gordy where are you located

[@jamessuty5838]

My opinion 90% of accuracy problems are caused by the shooter. Not the gun or load!!

[@redneckprecision8997]

A 168 copper bullet was way too long for my 1:10 twist

[@oldArmyVet]

Scope rings and bases are probably the most common problem

[@DanielBoone337]

I was banging my head against a wall damn near trying to figure out what the hell was going on with my 444 marlin Thompson Center Encore before primitive weapons season started last weekend and thought I was going crazy for a min... I would get my zero and take an extra shot to confirm and it would move and that happened a few times... A 444 isn't exactly a fun gun to shoot especially in a single shot rifle not to mention ammo is next to impossible to find. Eventually when I pulled the trigger I noticed the cross hair move inside the optic just from the hammer falling so I know it's moving around under recoil... That took almost 2 boxes of ammo shooting, pulling the optic, checking rings, and mount knowing it was something to do with that but the whole time it was the reticle broken lose...

[@ewetho]

Watch the diving board scope base…. Had a 22-250 that had that issue… try to use Bull barrels for that but there are some supported mounting options that eliminated that concern as well…

[@larrymeyer7064]

Tkx 4 vidio, very informative.

[@stephensimone6569]

Excellent video.

[@b0lbi]

Hey now, some of us auto mechanics are that thorough, it's just no one ever wants to pay for that option....lol

[@robertdewilde4095]

7mm rem mag, trued 700 action, jewell hvbr trigger, bartlien carbon #4, 1-8.5twist, APA brake, mcmillan game hunter stock, pillar bedded, 80 rnds down tube, has flier every time with 3 round grps, doesn't matter if factory ammo or reloads. seems to be third round fired every time. talking .2 grp opening up to .5 grp., maybe heat? 3 rounds should stack on top each other w/o worrying bout heat I would think. haven't called barrel manufacture yet but was thinking bout it just to get their prerogative. how bout it Gavin, hit Gordy up on it if ya talk to him.

[@leethomas556]

I've been plagued with problems with my BAR mk2 safari in 300wm. It doesn't like anything in 180 grain, shoots well in the 200 grain classes of bullets...all irregardless of boss settings. I have an identical but older mk2 and it's a great rifle. I'm not a hand loader. I've shot Underwood primarily, hornady, federal and rem core lokt. Underwood accubond being my favorite or at least what I want to shoot

[@nebraskaman8247]

Loose scope mounts got me once. Over $150 in ammo figuring it out lol. I was pissed ha!

[@fredbartlett4394]

Man he talks fast lol,good video guys

[@francoismartins6867]

What would you recomend the best twist rate for a 270 win i have a 1:10 shooting 145 ELD-X with allright accuracy, would you recomend going for a heavier bullet or a lighter bullet ?

[@peterphillips2882]

1:10 twist is better for heavier bullets, 160+ grain

[@sneakinguponit]

1:9 would be the best twist rate for that bullet.

[@francoismartins6867]

I allready baught a 1:10 will the eldx still perform allright ?

[@peterphillips2882]

@@francoismartins6867 yh should be fine but heavier bullets could improve the accuracy, 1:10 is recommended for 160+ grain

[@randomidiot8142]

@@peterphillips2882 in a .277? No. 1:8 is the 6.8 western twist rate for the 160+ for a reason.

[@jeffwilson49]

What was up with the auto mechanic crack? Comment could have been used better. There's shops that just throw on parts till they fix problem and there's shops that spend hours with top of the line tools to pen point problem. There are the same differences with with gunsmiths.

[@TheDiscipleofTheLord]

Savage 110 BA 338 Lapua ... When muzzle brake is installed (tried multiple different ones) the POI shift is sometimes 8 inches up to 18 inches depending on the brake used, It will still group I have just never seen such a great POI shift.. any ideas why this happens?

[@mbw65]

Lots of variables here. It's repeatibility here and if you have a bad day at the range, go home and come back another day. Changing seating position on the bench can make a difference.

[@steev4952]

Hi, I have an 5.56 11.3" barrel shooting high and left with a 50yd zero but at 10 yds it's spot on. What could be the reason why my AR is shooting so off? Could it be barrel QC issue?

[@cugir321]

It's probably a century arms gun.

[@randyemerson8407]

People rarely complain about paying a gunsmith to diagnose a problematic rifle, but people piss and moan all the time about not wanting to pay a mechanic for a proper diagnosis and then get mad when doing it their way doesn’t fix the car.

[@johnblackbird7523]

Nice video

[@thomashoward9806]

Why didn't you mentioned that copper fouling. Since my Rem. 700 (pre 69) BDL fouled I've used 7.62 solvent till no more copper. For the last 50+ yrs. nail driver 243. Hand loaded 87 gr. Hornady fur saver, nothing else. Now no longer accurate.

[@pcormackx]

I just acquired a DPMS Oracle LR-308. Bone stock. What kind of accuracy should I expect from a low to mid range rifle? Is 1 minute too much to ask?

[@benbox7329]

After lapping and bedding mine in 223. I'm getting 1 3/4. To. 2.5 group 100 yards. Also look into polishing you trigger

[@jonathanwallace4516]

How can I get in touch with him?

[@jonathanwallace4516]

In having problems with a Remington 700 30-06 shooting all over the paper. I've used different gain and brands.

[@danieldunham9978]

I have owned two rem 700s 308win and neither have been moa guns my ruger rpr shoots circles around them and it breaks my heart because i have wanted a 700 since i was a small boy hate to pour money into one to make it shoot.

[@BMXrider915]

I’m currently trying to get my ruger hawkeye African in 275 rigby to pattern well I tried custom ammo made by hendershot with 150 grain ELD-x and 150 grain Barnes tsx. I have the same gun in a 9.3x62 Mauser and it shoots 0.5 MOA so I’m kind of lost on how to get this 275 shoot. As far as scope I have a VX5hd leoupold on it.

[@BMXrider915]

@Nick Nolte a 1500 dollar rifle is not a cheap rifle and a Christensen arms is a long range hunting rifle this a classic safari style hunting rifle I’m trying to get set up. I already have a few custom long range precision rifles that shoot 0.25 moa at 200 yards.

[@kirkmartin2223]

I got a weird one for ya... Marlin bolt action in 30-06... Pull the rifle out of the case and fire once and it hits point of aim at 100yds.... 2nd shot could be high and right or low and left... 3rd shot same way... Sit around and cuss the gun and ammo then fire it again.....hits point of aim again! I think the barrel is warming up and touching the factory stock somehow. Any ideas?

[@Ultimatereloader]

I think you may be on to something! You may try tightening the front action screw while holding the stock and barrel in the same hand- feel for movement. If there is any, you probably have some interference and/or need a bedding job. Is the barrel free-floated?

[@kirkmartin2223]

@@Ultimatereloader I do not think its 100% free floated. The fact that it returns back to zero after it cools tells me that its not ammo or scope related. This is my father's gun that he won in a raffle so it's not like there is a ton of time and money in it and I don't expect a marlin bolt action in a plastic stock to be a 400yd tack driver. I will do a dollar bill test a see if its fully floated and check the action hardware for sure. Do some 7mm stuff one day please... And thanks for your response