Unbelievable Upgrade: Cheap Magnepans Turned into Gems

[@michaelwright1602]

The Maggies are here! Just set them up, and they sounded a bit harsh at first, but several hours later, they simply sound better and better as they break in. The speakers for the price? OMG! Do they sound FANTASTIC! They are cleaning the floor with my Zu DW6 Supremes... It is no contest, and I could have bought three of the Maggies for what I have in these Zu's. Danny's kit will be here Monday, and I will break out my soldering iron next Saturday and take care of this, and cannot wait to hear them. I have these set up with an active crossover to send the mids and highs to the Maggies, and the lows to the subs. This crossover really did make a huge difference in overall sound quality. I am using the Rolls SX45 unit found on Amazon or Parts express, get one if you own these speakers. It goes between the source and the amplifier and is dead silent. I cannot get over how good these speakers sound, especially for only a grand! I can only imagine how they will sound after giving them the "Danny" treatment. ;-)

[@j-rod6420]

Nice to hear.

[@j-rod6420]

Please keep us posted on the results of the crossover mod.

[@michaelwright1602]

@@j-rod6420 I will be reporting back.

[@peterdesmidt8742]

I use a Minidsp SHD to crossover my Maggies to my open baffle subs. It works great! I'll be really curious to hear how the upgraded crossover works out.

[@ericelmore887]

Please keep us updated

[@thepracticalaudiophile]

In case anybody wants to buy a pair of lrs+ and do the gr-research upgrade, I just got an email back from Magnepan saying you may order a pair without any crossover. Of course, they said no warranty if speakers were damaged during playback. They will also use pure copper leads if requested. The default wiring is cca. Plus, I inquired about the x series binding posts, and they're nothing special. While the defaults are nickel plated steel, the x series are just gold-plated nickel plated steel. That is, they took the defaults and coated them for gold. If you requst these, it's a $180 upgrade. Since the core is still steel, I doubt if they're worth the upgrade.

[@thepracticalaudiophile]

Finished the upgrade using external wooden boxes for the crossover. Does anybody want to hear the full process or just a quick overview?

[@j-rod6420]

I want to hear about your process,and I definitely want to know about the end result as I've been stewing on this upgrade since seeing the video.

[@michaelwright1602]

Fill us in! I am curious about the panels being different in build. Are the crossovers identical in each speaker? I have my kit being delivered tomorrow and am really curious at what you discovered. And yes, how did the upgrade work with the overall SQ of the pair? I was thinking of doing an external box too... Make it plug and play to the back of the Maggies to easily move around.

[@thepracticalaudiophile]

I left a reply on my other post in this thread.

[@LuckyX2]

So happy to see this! Been waiting for your LRS+ upgrade. I use my LRS+ with a Vidar 2 and Rythmik F12-400 and absolutely love it. This upgrade is an insta-buy for me, can't wait to hear it.

[@jerrystecher6782]

Got my upgrade kit Friday. It's Sunday night and the new crossovers are installed. Couldn't be happier. The speakers have a purer, cleaner sound, and combined with 2 Rythmik 12" subs and the Bac4Mac 3D sound system powered by a Hegel h190 =s a truly amazing listening experience. Having never done anything in my 76 years like installing the upgrade I called Danny to check I was understanding what needed to be done which he explained clearly in a couple of minutes, and voila got all I hoped for, and more. I will never pay attention to criticism from those who haven't heard what they are criticizing, again...no matter what their "credentials." I am a happy camper.

[@michaelwright1602]

Good to hear! I just ordered a pair of the speakers and Danny's kit. Hopefully all will arrive soon. Danny's kit is on backorder, the speakers are supposed to be in stock. Finger's crossed!

[@ericelmore887]

@jerrystecher6782 ..sounds like a great set up. I would love to ask you a few questions if I'm able to email you?

[@mikelautermilch8939]

this is gonna be one of GR's best sellers of all time

[@dannyrichie9743]

It has been the best selling kit of the day for sure.

[@54tristin]

As of 11/23/ w24, not a single review! Not one

[@toddhupp]

they now offer a .7+ with upgrades similar to yours Gary. big improvement

[@chatnboy]

Why not just sell the speakers with the upgrades installed from the beginning!

[@computerfreakch8912]

From the initial impedance chart it would appear that the tweeter kicks at around 200 Hz. That's really low, making Magnepan look like they don't know what they are doing. But hey, this "tweeter" is 1 meter high!

[@OddAudioCanada]

I have your kit installed in my first gen LRS which I've been running for quite a while... I recently had the chance to do a side by side with a set of stock LRS that came through my door on the way to a friend's system, and it's wonderful to hear how transformative the GR design was after a few years since I first installed them - huge increase in clarity and detail, way more high frequency extension and airiness, amazing soundstage and depth, and way less of that irritating head-in-a-vice beaming treble. The only con is a loss of that pleasant mid bass hump, which is worth losing for all the pros. I was curious to see what was new in the LRS Plus - shock, it's the exact same crap crossover! I figured that was what they updated, but clearly not.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Thanks for the feedback. Just a thought, but if you'd like a little bit of a hump in the bass panel you can add a .5 ohm to 1.0 ohm resistor to the tweeter circuit to bring the level of it down a little bit in relation to the bass panel. I think people often don't realize that there is still some adjustability to the balance.

[@hafgrim.]

You have the same experience I've had with the lrs upgrade. Another thing to point out is that since the bass is flattened out, bass extends lower perceptually and you can run into the limits of the Maggie's bass more often that without the bump in mid and upper bass.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@hafgrim. That is true. When we were playing the 3.7i's in our room after our upgrade I liked them best with one of these inline filters to remove the first octave and then letting our open baffle servo subs handle the bottom end. gr-research.com/hi-pass-filters/

[@Josh442]

No, there are two major changes in the + and they have nothing to do with the crossover.

[@peterdesmidt8742]

@@Josh442 What do they have to do with?

[@amdenis]

Thank you so much. BTW, I have a pair of LRS+'s and I run it with one of two different amplifiers and they are amazing (Hegel H95 Class AB, and dual mono class D ZA3's). I am comparing them to SVS Prime Ultra towers that we upgraded with your kit, KII Three's (amazing, but expensive), and Focal 11's. In any case, your timing is excellent, as I had started reengineering the LRS's crossover based on simple analysis (looking at the cross over, listening to them and analyzing with MatLab), and you came up with two MAJOR improvements. First, the elimination of the connection panel hardware (steel, bar, fuse, etc) and better component value choices. You are amazing, and THANK YOU AGAIN!

[@BostonMike68]

I never listened to the mags but a lot of people love them, I learn so much from watching these videos, I went and designed a few speakers myself and I built my reference speaker and I used all , ofc copper, silver solder, jantzen z caps and 14 gauge air coil inductors that I dipped in parfen wax, and the speakers sound so clear and dynamic, I hear things I don't normally hear in music, so I became i big believer in quality parts .

[@michaelsparrow4798]

Suggest a brief video of exactly what is involved removing the socks. The mention of the daunting disassembly scares me off of this. (I do own LRS+'s.) Have ordered upgrade from you folks before and had no problem assembling/installing -- but it was in a traditional box speaker that removing the mid/woof provided access.

[@veroman007]

Plenty of videos out there on what that’s like

[@hoth2112]

It's mainly removing a lot of staples from the bottom, only to find another row of staples. Then slide the sock up, unscrew the input panel, then you can slide it up further to access the crossover on the back and driver terminals on the front. It's not hard, just kinda tedious.

[@michaelsparrow4798]

@@veroman007 NOT helpful. I googled it before posting. Nothing recent nor specifically for LRS. Please see next reply for example of how to be helpful.

[@Josh442]

There's nothing complicated about it, you'll see right away what to do. It's just that there are a million staples and prying them all off is a PITA!

[@CashGravel]

@@michaelsparrow4798google better

[@charlesclifton1006]

Wow! I've heard so much about these LRS's and how good they sound with Hegel amps. This information is pure gold. Now that Danny has measured and done his "thing" I could actually be confident in ordering these speakers. Of course, with the up-grade.

[@ChuckD6809]

Can confirm: LRS+ with Hegel H600 is off the hook phenomenal. LRS+ with Hegel H190 wants to run real hot. They still sound good with the H190, but if you're kicking out the jams, you won't be running that long before you get into a protection/shutdown circuit situation.

[@spudpud-T67]

@@ChuckD6809 I'd seen many reviewers saying H90 or H95 would easily power the LRS+. I auditioned it with the H390 (they didn't have smaller Hegels to demo) instore and it sounded feeble. They said that's what I had requested but they normally pair it with the Musical Fidelity M5si and that worked fine to my ears.

[@charlesclifton1006]

Got my focus on the possibility of picking up a used H390. New is too pricey for this retiree but could be done.@@ChuckD6809

[@wood4sheep]

I’m putting an order in asap. Interesting you mention adding a “small” sub, my plan is to also build your open subs into a new frame for my mmgs.

[@tywoodruff8578]

Hi Danny, a few questions if you don’t mind. I am considering a pair older SMG-A speakers available locally in Austin. Do you have an upgrade kit for that speaker? If so, is it the same price? Is the price per speaker or per pair? I know from another question you said you don’t currently have the manpower to do the disassembly, install and reassembly work. My problem is I have virtually zero soldering experience. Is this still something I could fairly easily do myself? Would you have the time to do the install if I did the disassembly/reassembly? Thank you!

[@ChrisJohnson-c3s]

I have 3.7i's, there is definitely a head in the vice Sweet Spot which I don't mind because I only listen by myself. It's a much wider Sweet Spot than the lrs that I used to have which was the reason I upgraded. Magnepans need to be focused toward your ears. I hope that's where you guys are taking your measurements from since I don't believe an arbitrary position on the panel would give you a good measurement.

[@dannyrichie9743]

You should try our upgrade to the 3.7i. It really takes that one to another level. No more head in a vise either. It sounds balanced from anywhere in the room.

[@egh500]

Amazing results with the upgrade! Guys, buy this LRS+ (US $995, EU €1800) AND the upgrade from Danny. You wont regret it once you did everything right. Must say i added mechanical improvement on these little mdf planes and added a purify 300+ class D amp from Audiophonics in France as well as LS cable upgrades suggested by Danny. GR Research servo subs melted fine with this gear!

[@j-rod6420]

I found it dropped the output too much.

[@mortimersnerd1348]

Considering all the work to dis-assemble and get at the old crossover, it maybe more advantageous just to create an external box to house the new crossover so that you never have to rip it all apart again sometime in future. Just my two cents...

[@dannyrichie9743]

You still have to disassemble it to begin with.

[@royramdeen8864]

I am so excited about this upgrade, never like that fuse in the crossovers and looks like it will make my LRS plus sound even better. Could you please do a video on doing the upgade for some of us that are a bit hesitant of taking this step on their speakers. It would be much appreciated. I am hoping there is a way to use the same plate.. hoping. Thanks for this will buy this upgrade kit.

[@dieterleonard2309]

Yes, this would be very helpfull!

[@t.j.bennett6454]

Well I out my lrs+ up for sale just yesterday. I’ve been wanting to do a gr research upgrade for the longest time. Now is the time. I’m pretty excited

[@walterpen371]

It's time that Magnepan designs an exterior crossover unit for each panel. Update on those leg stands. Surprise! Magnepan has outsourced a company that makes an excellent, solid leg brackets for their panel speakers. Can they do this for the crossovers? Thanks Danny for sharing.

[@craigellsworth3952]

Peter Gunn. His work is good.

[@robertmoi8400]

One lesson that I learned is that sometimes you have to compromise performance to protect drivers. I have a powerful DIY amp and a DIY DAC. The amp dumps all it's power to the speakers in case of a loose connection with the DAC. That's over 800 watts per channel and my tweeters have no resistor due to their low sensitivity. They are not playing that low, second-order HPF with 6.8uf polycap and 0.39mH aircore inductor. So yeah, the amp has destroyed three sets of tweeters. I had to solder a fuse to a wire and connect in series with the tweeters to protect them from the amp. Performance degradation was very small. Most fuses are made of tin-lead which doesn't negatively affect signal alot, the signal goes through them some preamp and amp sections.

[@steveoh4511]

In case of the 1.7i upgrade, I wonder if the new crossover can be fitted inside the space, or needs to be placed external to the speaker.

[@RLM-TV]

It is 1/6th the price of the X upgrade from Magnepan. I love my GR-Research upgrades on my 1.7i; they are astonishing upgrades! GR's offices in Texas helped me answer a few questions. They also sent me charts, graphs, and pictures, and they made it a fun and easy upgrade. Next, I want to compare my 1.7i with the GR upgrade side by side with the 1.7x from Magnepan and see which sounds better.

[@spudpud-T67]

Does GR send you comprehensive instructions for the install, foolproof?

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

X upgrade is not available for LRS+

[@AmazonasBiotop]

I can second that. With just scraping those binding posts, fuse holder and attenuator. Will make a huge difference. Anybody with that shit in the signal path, has not yet heard what their magnapan could deliver in sound quality! It is like putting heavy steal shoes on Michael Jordan and then expect him to play as Michael Jordan.. 😅

[@johnmd1970]

Looks like a great upgrade at a reasonable price. I have question your concern about steel nuts on the binding posts, as you have on other speakers. I can maybe see how steel in the signal path may have an effect. Can you explain how steel nuts, not in the signal path, can be a problem?

[@davidozburn1155]

They only perform to a "designed" certain level so that you go buy the next higher priced speaker

[@jeffreyhale6472]

Exactly.

[@hafgrim.]

Even the higher end models are built the same way. Look at the upgrade video for the 3.7i

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@hafgrim. You are correct.

[@Josh442]

It wasn't intentionally crippled, if that's what you mean. Rather, it was built to a price point -- if they used more expensive components, they would add several hundred dollars to the cost -in consumer audio, the selling price is 4X the cost of the parts. They describe it as an "appetizer" and its main purpose is to expose people to the Magnepan sound so some will move on to the more expensive models.

[@craigellsworth3952]

You basically gave a good argument against what you originally had said.

[@54tristin]

I don’t get it if steel at th binding post is so bad, something that I am unable to hear, why doesn’t Wendell give you a $50, dollar option to change the binding posts to non ferric material ?

[@thepracticalaudiophile]

I did a simple upgrade just by moving the wire to the positive input and bypassing the fuse jumper path altogether, and it was a huge jump in clarity. Like i moved up a level in the Maggie line. Just ordered the kit. Can't wait until it's installed.

[@craigenputtock]

Can you let us know when you do it and how it turned out?--how difficult it was, and how it sounded afterwards? Thanks. Please respond on this video.

[@thepracticalaudiophile]

Hopefully, I'm doing this upgrade Sunday.

[@michaelwright1602]

@@thepracticalaudiophile Well?

[@thepracticalaudiophile]

First off, sound quality alone is worth the upgrade. The fact the tweeter panel is only getting high frequencies makes them sound crisp and fast with no cancelation. The mid/woofer sounds fuller and tighter. Some songs sounded full even without the subwoofers active. Still sound their best with subs, though. Now, as far as the wiring goes Magnepan is inconsistent with their color coding. I initially used their wires and ended up with the speakers out of phase. They had the colors wired oppositely on both sides. Just remember the inside leads are negative, and the two outside leads are the positives. So if your facing the back of the right speaker the leads will be T+ T- Mid- Mid+. It's easy to see which is the tweeter panel and mid panel through the cloth. Left speaker facing from the rear Mid+ Mid- T- T+. Remember ignore color coding. So if you replace the leads, the red (positive) wire to the outside and white (negative) to the inside leads. To my ears, upgrading these to Danny's copper wire made no audible difference to my ears. If you opt to just splice into the original wires, that would be fine also. If you are going to keep the original leads coming out of the speakers, you won't have to remove the staples. After removing the rear panel, just take a pair of scissors and cut about four inches towards the outside of the speakers, and then you can fold the cloth back and remove the crossover. Cut the wire as close to the crossover as possible. Ignore this and remove the staples if doing the wire upgrade. I replaced the rear panel with wood and used Cardas replacement connectors (so expensive) but again heard no perceivable difference. I recommend keeping the Maggie plate and posts or upgrade them to some higher quality binding post. I used the tube connectors as inputs on the external crossover box. I recommend these amzn.to/4atMvRc or these amzn.to/49GVYU2. The finished box could house both crossovers. Just make sure the inductors are all at right angles to each other. I have four binding posts coming out of each crossover and using WBC jumpers to connect to the back of the speaker. I made the top two (and speaker and crossover box) the tweeter inputs and bottom mid/woofer. Since there is no internal crossover in the future, you may choose to use an external electronic crossover. One final note: Magnepan in the future is thinking of offering all their speakers pure copper internal wiring and no crossover. Just have positive and negative posts going directly to each panel. Have fun. Once finished, these speakers will be legendary. These are end all speakers now. I'm ready for retirement.

[@j-rod6420]

@@thepracticalaudiophile Thank you for this detailed description of your upgrade.😊

[@Bob-yl9pm]

Good stuff GR, is this your hobby or are you a formally educated audio engineer? BTW, how much inductive reactance can there possibly be with a pair of wires passing perpindicular through a small single thin steel plate at the speaker connectors? I would guess, negligible?... Perhaps a subject for a future "actual measurement" video. Thanks

[@dannyrichie9743]

I have been doing this professionally since 1995. The sonic improvement in getting the steel parts out of the signal path is not subtle.

[@analoglooney]

@@dannyrichie9743He didn't ask how long you had done this 'professionally' , he asked if you had qualifications as an audio engineer. Not that qualifications mean that you know what you're doing.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@analoglooney Yeah, I got a couple of college degrees that I can hang on my wall. What they really mean is that I completed the requirements necessary to get the certificates. The real education started after college.

[@analoglooney]

@@dannyrichie9743Oh that is so true Danny. I spent years at college too getting qualifications in electronics which just prove I have a memory!. It took me 30 years of practical experience to actually do the job properly. Well done on your academic accomplishments anyhow.

[@daviddrake6875]

@@analoglooneyThe only thing that worked for me after a Associate Degree in Electronic Technology, was a special Robotics accelerated pilot course. I learned a hell of a lot.

[@toecutterjenkins]

For the binding post plate, a thick piece of kydex plastic (holster material) could work, too. It's very easy to work with .

[@rocksinger45]

WOW ~ Wish I had the talent to put this all together I'd buy it but I don't ~ Sounds really interesting to me ~

[@BowmanDk1]

This appear as one of the most valuable upgrades in the sound reproduction industry. I have been an amateur speaker constructor for three decades, and worked on a daily basic with Duelund his last four years. In my opinion, every construction will also benefit, on a focus on vibrations, after a crossover is made. And not only in the cabinet. Magnepans has a big active membrane, and this membrane vibrate to make sound. These vibrations, do not stop 100% after the sound making movement, but travel horizontally to the side panels, that is hard MDF which do not absorb the vibrations, but make them return to the membrane. As time delayed distorsion, naturally. So, by installing a thin vibration dampening material on the membran, felt or other material, a few mm. where the membran meet the frame, will stop the returned vibrations easy. Which gives increased dynamics and naturally sound as a result. And no negative effects at all. To a minimal cost and ten minutes of work if the cloth is removed already. The same cloth can stay permanently removed with a slight sound benefit. Another cheap and simple upgrade, is to use car chassis damping plates, and cut them in 5-6mm. stripes. Then glue them to the magnets from behind. The same upgraded dynamic and clearer sound will appear. A simple and fun upgrade, also the kids (and wife;-) will having fun, helping to do. And often be amazed by the result sonically.

[@Josh442]

That's called edge damping. I've asked Magnepan about it, and they claim it doesn't do very much. Not sure why -- maybe they used the wrong material?

[@BowmanDk1]

@@Josh442 Thanks Josh. I have done it it, and as i wrote, edge damping is clearly audiable. As dampenig of the magnets from behind is. Bypassing the resistor and stiffening the frame and Dannys crossover upgrade of course the same. Do you have other upgrades that works? Best, HH from Denmark.

[@Josh442]

@@BowmanDk1 I can think of a number, but by and large, they all involve pretty major surgery, such as building an entirely new constrained-layer baffle. But you've hit on some of the important mods, e.g., stiffness. The dual-magnet designs (20.7 and higher) fix this because the two opposing magnet assemblies reinforce one another. If I were building a new baffle, I would consider moving the ribbon closer to the midrange for better behavior (lobing) at the crossover point -- right now, the only reason they're so far apart is structural. But the mod that I think will do far more than anything else is bi-amping with an electronic crossover. I'd add DSP, on the woofer, at least. Better XO's and, of course, you can do judicious equalization.

[@computerfreakch8912]

The dip in impedance is mild, but 2.8 Ohm combined with low-ish efficiency can be indeed too much for some amplifiers.

[@glenncurry3041]

It's always fun when a small dust up hits the industry. Not to the level of MOFI digital. Or even one's you've created before... LOL. But OCD Mikey had an interesting reaction to this one. Where's Amir? 🤣

[@mathtrixmusiclix4248]

In general, how much as a percentage, does the typical loudspeaker manufacturer invest in the crossover ?

[@jeffmlane]

There is much about how tedious it is to remove all the staples holding the sock in place. Any word on re-stapling the sock back in place. What type of staples etc.? Any concerns stretching the sock back in to place....that kind of thing? Looking to place my order soon. Cheers

[@dannyrichie9743]

Removing the staples is a pain in the rear end, but not a problem. We have a little hand held stapler that drives in new ones pretty easily. You can pick them up at a hardware store.

[@tallpaull9367]

Danny, I bet this LRS+ with upgrade would be a pair that you would love to test and listen to after redesigning the crossover. Should have had this customer send both in so you could do this. Maybe another opportunity will come up.

[@dannyrichie9743]

It sounds fun, but we are very limited on time and man power right now. We are struggling to get all of the orders out timely. Need a job?

[@tallpaull9367]

Need someone in Canada

[@tallpaull9367]

Do you need someone in Canada?

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@tallpaull9367 No, I need help here in Texas.

[@DaveSchulze]

@@dannyrichie9743 Too bad I'm in Austin :(

[@AN-ce1nd]

All Magnepans are giant sounding 4 ohm resistors. Aka amp killing load banks. Probably if not the worst designed speakers. I had a set of 3.5’s. Basically a door with giant 4 ohm resistors.

[@Josh442]

If you're amp can't drive 4 ohms, you need a new amp. The fact that the load is resistive makes them easier to drive as well. They do have low sensitivity, so you need a large amp.

[@zackobrien2223]

Are you serious? A consistent resistive load in a decent amplifier is loads (pun intended) better than a capacitive load. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@davidtomsett]

Stats and planar speakers are well known for having a very small listening sweet spot.

[@cpodurnell3701]

I love my upgrade! There was no way I was going to pay thousands of dollars for an X upgrade through Magnepan. I don't understand Magnepan, just put quality parts in it from jump and charge $1,300.00 for the LRS plus. Damn, how hard is that?

[@wendellgayheart9228]

Turn the lights on

[@stephenyoud6125]

Thus sayeth the Lord..!!

[@EnpuerKT]

Let there be light

[@ceylonmooney]

hey did you review them with all the drivers this time?

[@t.j.bennett6454]

I always bypass the fuse as soon as I get a pair of magnepans

[@TomCrockett-bl1gp]

Someone should design a fuse specifically for speakers. Those look like simple automotive fuses.

[@craigellsworth3952]

As the response is different from the tweeter to the woofer, I believe that it would affect imaging depending on how they are set up. Would having the tweeters on the inside be suggested or the outside?

[@michaelwright1602]

I tried mine both ways, the tweeter on the outside sounded the best. Add an active crossover and these babies SING! I'm using the Rolls SX45 found on Amazon or Parts Express for $109. It is dead silent and takes the stress off of the amplifier, as the bass is sent off to the subs. Danny's kit will be here tomorrow.

[@craigellsworth3952]

​@@michaelwright1602 I had Peter Gunn modify my little MMGs.

[@br.9055]

Have you worked on apogee crossover networks? I have the notorious scintilla 1 ohm amp killer and want to refresh all the 36 year old components. Can I contact you by email with photos?

[@dannyrichie9743]

I have not.

[@markwagner1997]

Great video and kit! Got anything for my old MMG's?

[@dannyrichie9743]

Yes we do.

[@markwagner1997]

​@@dannyrichie9743 I see LRS, LRS+, .7, 1.7 and up on the GR site. Discontinued, Perhaps? (They are pretty old)

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@markwagner1997 We never added the MMG to the site. We just didn't think there was as much interest in it.

[@63MGB1]

​@@dannyrichie9743 I modded my MMGs over ten years ago by changing to the earlier crossover which, IIRC, used a higher order crossover on the tweeter. Used higher quality parts, and of course bypassed the fuses and got rid of all the steel in the signal path. Big improvement! Also stiffened the frames and raised them up off the floor. Very happy now! In other words, everything you said in this video makes tons of sense.

[@cbayardelle]

You can’t measure a Maggie, especially with the rear reflection. The speaker has an extremely narrow sweet spot, I’ve owned magnepan speakers mg1, mg2, mg2c, mg2.5, I’ve used them with 200 watt plus amps in a 20 foot long x 16 wide, they never break up The trick is to keep them away from the back wall, & the back wall should treated

[@dannyrichie9743]

These were measured using a gated time window and zero room reflections. The reason the sweet spot is so narrow is because the drivers are playing on top of each other and causing out of phase cancellation in the off axis. They don't have to be that way. They can have a wide even coverage and a wider sweet spot. The stress in the tweeter becomes real apparent when you take it away.

[@michaelwright1602]

I just ordered a pair of these LRS+ speakers, along with the Danny LRS+ kit.

[@ericelmore887]

Love to know sound difference are Danny’s kit . Also with your active crossover in play as well.

[@computerfreakch8912]

260 bucks for the handful of inexpensive parts - and you get to re-build the back panel yourself. What a great deal!

[@EliteRock]

Yeh, they should sell them at cost and get a day-job to make a living.

[@randycochones5965]

@@EliteRock 👍😂

[@CashGravel]

Or you could get a degree in acoustical engineering spend half your life measuring speakers have on hand 1 million million parts and do it for nothing

[@glenncurry3041]

There is just something about the sound field of the Maggies that I fell in love with 5 decades ago and still prefer over any other design. They just energize the room differently than other systems. Even than regular driver based open baffle and omni. I've always approached them as being the drivers and the room being the cabinet. Rather than drivers in a box directing sound pressure waves at you.

[@analoglooney]

Quad esl57's will do the same to you. Enchanting is the word and you'll be up all night listening to the damned things.

[@glenncurry3041]

@@analoglooney Saw an interesting vid the other day on Audio Excellence Canada "The Worst Products I've Owned - A Glimpse in to an audiophile's nightmare purchases" where he discusses the ESL's and his love hate relationship with them. Including having the Mark Levenson stacked Quads with Decca ribbon supertweeter setup. I heard that once about 50 years ago. Did you know it was designed to be a single speaker mono system?

[@analoglooney]

@@glenncurry3041Thanks for that info. No, I never realised the Levenson set-up was designed for mono. ESL57's will drive you mad, I can understand his love-hate relationship with them. I've travelled that journey too. In the end I had to settle with Tannoy Monitor Reds 12" from the 60's and I love them to bits. The Quads are just too fussy. Still awesome though, especially for 1957. I never warmed to the 63's though.

[@glenncurry3041]

@@analoglooney My bad for not being accurate enough. The ESL57 itself was designed as a single speaker mono system. Not the Levenson mod. I got hooked on the Maggie planar approach. Got my first set of III's in the early '70's.

[@analoglooney]

@@glenncurry3041No problem. Yes the '57 was designed for mono as you say. After serial no 401 the directivity and distribution across the panels was altered for stereo. I can understand your addiction to Maggies. Open baffles are addictive. The only box loudspeaker that comes close is the Tannoy monitor red/gold/hpd which can be truly hypnotic. I don't think the newer Tannoy's sound as good though.

[@hawkins55]

Would you actually complete the installation for customers if needed? And st what price? Thanks!

[@dannyrichie9743]

Right now we do not have the time for doing installation or assembly work.

[@richh650]

There is little reason Magnepan shouldn't offer the crossover upgrade as at least an option from the factory.

[@trevorbartram5473]

Hi Danny, this is great re-engineering. This is such a popular high value speaker it would be nice if you (Ron?) did a before/after sound evaluation. How much louder do these modified speakers get?

[@dannyrichie9743]

The upgrade doesn't change how loud they play.

[@Josh442]

@@dannyrichie9743 Doesn't it reduce tweeter distortion at high levels?

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@Josh442 That's true, but I was referring to sensitivity level.

[@marnk9617]

Hi Danny, would it be possible to modify the 1.7i crossover to roll off at 80Hz? Can I get the required crossover components from you? Thanks

[@intothevoid9831]

Hope one day magnepan learns to tune their stuff better.

[@analoglooney]

Nice job Danny. It amazes me that these things get such high praise to start with judging by the way they measured before the mods. I'd imagine LRS owners will be delighted.

[@RobAuditori]

love your work but i wish that you would show the actual build.

[@BubblePuppy.]

Danny does have some videos showing how to solder and do upgrades which might be helpful

[@hoth2112]

We get that a lot, and we do have a couple older videos like the Klipsch RP600M or our own X-LS Encore & X-Bravo. But we simply don't have the time or manpower to document/film the assembly/installation of every speaker that comes in or gets made. Plus parts availability changes over time, so what we film today may not be available in 2-3 years time, just like with those models we did make upgrade videos for, some of the parts we stock now are different. We still help walk customers through assembly if they get stuck or have questions.

[@spudpud-T67]

@@hoth2112 Do you provide assembly instructions, diagrams with the kits?

[@hoth2112]

We supply diagrams for the crossover, and I just drew a diagram on which tabs are connected to which drivers.@@spudpud-T67

[@irawong]

Hi, Danny. Can I ask you a “dumb” question? If I’m now using an active crossover with a pair of Magnepan .7’s and REL T/7x subwoofers, wouid I benefit from upgraded parts in my Maggies (aside from perhaps a set of tube connectors)?

[@davevolz6138]

The crossovers were always their downfall. I ve biamped with great results.

[@michaelsparrow4798]

@davevolz6138 Know of any resources/how-to's regarding how to do this? I have bi-amped (NOT bi-wired) in the past -- with separate binding posts on speaker. Just not sure how to apply to Maggies?

[@davevolz6138]

@@michaelsparrow4798 You have to wire the leads from the drivers out to a terminal panel with binding posts and use electronic crossover. Don’t know if there are any KZbin posts on that.

[@joshua43214]

@@davevolz6138 You could also use a passive crossover on the interconnect to each amp, just simple high pass and low pass like what Danny did. Parts would be cheap since the signal is so low. Probably be better in some ways depending on what electronic crossover you are using.

[@davevolz6138]

@@joshua43214 Back in the day, we were using either the brooks siren FDS 360 or the KMF audio crossover. It’s been a while

[@Josh442]

Yeah, Maggies love biamping. Better even than an improved crossover. Maybe because of improved electrical damping?

[@thomosburn8740]

Would this same kit benefit the older MMG? Or would I need different resistance components?

[@dannyrichie9743]

We designed an upgrade for the MMG a few years ago.

[@KillerKojak]

@@dannyrichie9743 ... can it work for the MG-12 Danny ??? ( i hope so...) i pull out the fuses and install Rhodiums Cardas connectors....

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@KillerKojak This upgrade only works for this model.

[@KillerKojak]

😓😓😢😥@@dannyrichie9743

[@sloboat55]

Bought my Pedest'ale Tower speakers from Danny in 2021, classic styling and sounded great. Danny sent me Sonicaps, immediate improvement, that was June 2023. Danny sent me No-rez January 2024, fully lined , and simple enough project. From the main into a Decware ZLC, GR cryo power cord to the Decware Rachel intergrated, GR power cord each into two Parasound 2125v.2 power amps. Mark Tunis power cord into CEC TL5 CD transport, feeding Earmen Tradutto dac, powered by a Small Green Computer LPSU. Decware Gold Pills between dac and Rachel. DIY Mogami speaker cables and Transparent Coax , Transparent interconnects from Rachel to power amps. The Synergy is alive and well.

[@stephenyoud6125]

What did you think of the Cryo chords?

[@sloboat55]

@stephenyoud6125 seriously worth the money, tember, tamber, and texture is immediately bolder. Like if you watch a stampede from a Ridgeline, that's one feeling. It's like standing in the middle of the stampede while it moves around you, with the power cords.It's all about your rigs, individual Synergy. Guarantee you won't be sorry.

[@stephenyoud6125]

@@sloboat55 awesome. The flat earthers will hate to hear that

[@sloboat55]

@@stephenyoud6125 of all the things to think about, flat earth isn't one of them. Cool runnings

[@stephenyoud6125]

@@sloboat55I mean the guys Danny calls the flat earthers. The ones that won’t believe cryo treatment or even power cables won’t do anything

[@MichaelDavitt1]

Will this kit work for the original LRS speakers too ? Thanks Danny

[@dannyrichie9743]

We already designed an upgrade for the standard LRS: gr-research.com/product/magnepan-lrs/

[@pfunk34]

Are the LRS+ crossovers, and all the other Maggie's for that matter, the same on the Right and Left speakers? If so, then the tuning by Wendell Diller must be somewhere else on the speaker. If they are the same, you have a new customer... now just have to save up

[@dannyrichie9743]

The crossovers are the same for left and right.

[@DarrellRichards-qb2lm]

Hello I am about to order 3 LRS+ for my theater front end, I just found your upgrade presentation. My question is should I be buying the LRS model not the plus. and then add your upgrade kit. I would have thought the new plus model would have upgraded the cross over. If your upgrade kit can give me a better listening experience installed in the older LRS. I would prefer to go that way your thoughts please thank you .

[@dannyrichie9743]

We have an upgrade for the standard LRS too.

[@zackobrien2223]

Magnepan for theatre, are you crazy? Lol

[@DarrellRichards-qb2lm]

@@zackobrien2223 Hello I Built a wall behind the the Maggie's 2 ft in depth. then I framed in the Maggie's into another frame leaving 5 inches before the back drop . with a port so the sound wont bounce. all i can say is the imaging is unbelievable, I did compare both ways with the Maggie's set up the usally way and then the this unusual design. sound is incredible the theater sounds so much better. prior i was using very good B&W speakers. . My theater is a dedicated 7.8.4 Rm size 22x26x9ft high 2.35 ratio 12ft fixed screen . all built into a 10 inch concrete Bunker.

[@GarethBeckett-wu7kx]

I have a pair of tannoy precision 6.2 speakers. Why not tell me what are wrong with these speakers and how you or your company can improve the tannoy 6.2 speakers. Because it seems to me that all speaker makers are wrong and you are right ! Is that right.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Send one in and we'll take a look at it.

[@sourdoughhome2571]

It would have been nice if you'd put a light colored background behind the maggie - I never got a good look at it.

[@darrenweight5972]

Will this kit work with the original LRS? I have a pair and LOVE them. Your upgrades look fantastic and I want to buy the kit if it will work with the original LRS and not just the LRS+

[@dannyrichie9743]

We have a different kit for the LRS. You ca see it one our site as well.

[@dragocelander6671]

I’m curious if you measured the frequency response of each speaker of the pair, and whether you measured the frequency response profile of both speakers at the same time. I got the impression that you measured the response for one speaker of the pair, and assumed the other speaker had the same profile.

[@dannyrichie9743]

You can only measure one speaker at a time.

[@dragocelander6671]

@@dannyrichie9743 Fair enough. But did he measure each panel or just one panel, assuming that both panels had the same profiles.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@dragocelander6671 They measure the same.

[@kevinmccormick419]

Why no before and after A/B listening comparison? A good pair of headphones would allow you to hear the difference to a fairly high degree.

[@dannyrichie9743]

We are working on a system that will allow this, but it won't be in a compresses KZbin file. From testing that we have been doing, we have realized that the audio clips only let you hear about 10% of the differences. Sound stage layering, sound stage placement, imaging, and depth are attributes that are lost in the recordings due to the playback method used to compare them, and when comparing live those attributes really stand out.

[@glenncurry3041]

@@dannyrichie9743 I never understand why people think this is a valid approach. The most hilarious are those claiming to show the difference between analog and digital sourcing, after capturing on some probably cheap phone or USB mic and through youtube? I have heard differences between whatever A and B through the crappy PC speaker system I use even. But to make a value judgement on expensive hardware? Absurd. File downloads would be the only predictable approach.

[@daviddrake6875]

@@glenncurry3041Zeos Pantera has flac files on Telegram. Much much better than YT.

[@ericelmore887]

Thanks for video quick question Danny is the tweeter crossed over at 1600 hz?

[@dannyrichie9743]

Yep, somewhere in that range.

[@ooLonestar]

Does anyone have thoughts on if this crossover would work well on the Magnepan MMG's? The LRS+ and MMGs have about the same specs. I believe I bought mine in 1998.

[@FOH3663]

Always been suspect of everything about that input plate Maggie uses. I'd think this could be quite a popular offering.

[@johndemmer3496]

Stupid question.....If we are going through a PEQ like is on the eversolo dmp-a8 can't we just adjust the frequency response that way? I guess though it would not work on the analog inputs like with a turntable.

[@dannyrichie9743]

EQ does not solve the problems at all.

[@johndemmer3496]

@@dannyrichie9743 Not at all?

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@johndemmer3496 Nope, all of those ferrous parts, and budget level crossover parts are still in the signal path and still eating up resolution and detail levels. Those parts also hurt imaging, sound stage layering, image depth, etc.

[@johndemmer3496]

@@dannyrichie9743 I 'll buy that. It's not all about measurements of frequency responses. Two can measure the same and still sound very different.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@johndemmer3496 Correct.

[@MartinHAndersen]

I have a pair and the sound out of balance. Now I know why. When you made the new filter did you notice that the panels are not the same? Hope so😊

[@dannyrichie9743]

Yes.

[@spudpud-T67]

Magnepan deliberately tune the two panels to be different to each other so that when heard together they are complete. Check out the visual differences under the sock. Hear the differences when played individually.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@spudpud-T67 Yes, but the crossovers are the same.

[@philipteater3714]

OCD Mikey disagrees. Would be good to get feedback from those upgrading to learn their impressions.

[@mjot2360]

OCD Mikey has done his own modifications on Magnepan speakers in the past. Past videos prove it.

[@philipteater3714]

Yes, I understand from OCD Mikey’s comments that his concern is over his perceived criticism of Magnepan as a company/design choices, not the upgrade. There is criticism from Danny, but I see it as highlighting the weaknesses to contrast to his improvements; reasonable

[@michaelwright1602]

OCD Mikey has his own LRS+ upgrade, and Danny's kit negates it. Danny replaces and upgrades the stock internals, Mikey has a fuse upgrade. Dany's upgrade erases the fuse. Mikey is pissed.

[@michaelwright1602]

@@philipteater3714 I watched Danny's video, and he had nothing but praise for Magneplanar.

[@philipteater3714]

@@michaelwright1602 Agree! That is why I say PERCEIVED criticism. On Mikey’s channel I commented: JUDGEMENT - NOW DEBATE - UNNECESSARY

[@pauldavies6037]

I always have great respect for Magnepan drivers but the final crossover designs are a disaster just look how bad they measure Danny again has transformed them and not expensive too plus taking all the steel out of the signal path

[@mcgjohn22]

pretty cool. Sounds like a really nice upgrade. Maybe all those steel parts were added to the signal path to add some graininess................

[@stephenc2738]

If the measured response of the LRS+ is so bad, what are the reviewers who heap such praise hearing? Secondly, what is wrong with Magnepan that they haven’t measured these speakers and experimented with crossover design improvements? Obviously production cost is a factor but it indicates the reviewers are audibly obtuse and Magnepan isn’t much better.

[@Josh442]

Have you heard them? There's more to speakers and speaker measurements than on-axis response. Danny points to some of it -- the excellent waterfall response (low stored energy). That adds realism to the sound. The dipole radiation pattern dumps less reverberant energy in the room, and that makes them sound cleaner in a typical listening environment. Dipole radiation also creates a pleasant sensation of depth, and reduces side wall reflections. Dipole bass is also smoother than omnidirectional bass because it triggers fewer room modes. These are an "appetizer" (their description) that's built to a price point, so you won't see fancy crossovers unless you install Danny's kit. But I think the important point here, and it's one that audiophiles sometimes forget, is that there is a lot more to the sound of a speaker than its frequency response -- and even frequency response shouldn't be flat for two-channel stereo, but rather tilted down about .5 dB/octave (what's called a "house curve"). A lot of audiophiles don't know that -- they think that you want a straight line -- but if you do that, when you compare the sound to live music the speakers will sound too bright.

[@stephenc2738]

@@Josh442 I’ve owned QUAD ESLs (57s and 63s) and am appreciative of the natural acoustic sound they reproduce, no boxiness, resonance nor bass hangover. No one expects ruler flat response curves but what is going on with the LRS+ is puzzling.

[@Josh442]

@@stephenc2738 It is, isn't it. Well, they're limited by the first order crossover. It's hard to make a gated near-field response measurement of dipole line sources, and you need to include the effect of power response, which accounts for 1/3 of the subjective quality. This design is going to have issues at the XO point because the width of the woofer causes it to beam, and because they can't use the 2 pole - 1 pole arrangement that Danny used (and that they used in early versions of the MMG, the predecessor to the LRS). I know how Wendell Diller voices these speakers, and he begins with measurements of on-axis and power response (as well as other parameters like impulse response, etc.) and then fine tunes by ear, often with the Reference Recordings recordings of the Minnesota Symphony, where they have 10th row center seats. So I'm pretty confident that he's chosen the XO points to get the most out of the speaker that he could within the limits imposed by the crossover and the drivers. It's never going to look like a Quad. (But at the other end, if you saw the measurements of the 30.7, you'd be blown away by the midrange, which is something like +/- .5 dB in the critical region. That will give even the ESL-57 a run for its money.) So basically, I'm not sure what the story is, but I do know that the LRS (I haven't heard the LRS+) sounds a lot better than its response measurements would suggest, which I find interesting and a bit puzzling.

[@thepracticalaudiophile]

Does the positive go in to the outside or inside of the inductors?

[@dannyrichie9743]

Inductors are nonpolar. You can use them either way.

[@thepracticalaudiophile]

Thank you

[@veroman007]

I have loved those speakers. They supply two cheap resistors of different values that take the place of that steel bar. I bought 2 high-quality Mundorf with a value of 2.2 that sits in the signal path. To My ear it sounds more balanced, less bright in my room. I knew you would get around to reviewing the speaker and burst my bubble. Lol, I absolutely love these speakers. I have a nice SVS subwoofer and an old rotelle amp damn you for making me consider this upgrade. I do wonder about how you measured those speakers, considering they are dipoles wouldn’t a gated measurement cut off the reflected sound?

[@Josh442]

He went into the gating in the video. Dipoles are hard to measure. From my perspective, the only really valid measurement is in the listener's chair -- but then you're dealing with the specific room. So you do that, but you also do gated measurements and compensate for the lack of dipole roll off (they will seem too have too much bass if you measure them up close).

[@erwinvangrinsven9345]

I put in the resistor as well, it makes the sound not so sharp, especially with female S ….sounds.

[@aweidenhammer]

Any chance this would work for the original LRS? If not, might you put together an equivalent kit for that model?

[@dannyrichie9743]

We already designed an upgrade for the standard LRS: gr-research.com/product/magnepan-lrs/

[@capelight52]

I'm assuming one would need one kit for each speaker. Correct?

[@dannyrichie9743]

The kit we offer is for the pair.

[@kenwk2283]

After the crossover upgrade , any benefits to use active crossover to separate high and low if I want to put a sub in? Thanks

[@dannyrichie9743]

No, but there is benefit in knocking out the first octave and a half and letting that get handled by a sub.

[@dieterleonard2309]

@@dannyrichie9743But how can you do this?

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@dieterleonard2309 Use an inline filter: gr-research.com/hi-pass-filters/

[@dieterleonard2309]

@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks, but I am using an integrated amplifier… Not everybody has separated gears 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@dieterleonard2309 That makes is a lot tougher.

[@seanb3303]

So I could sit five feet away and pull them out 3 feet? I always hear people saying you need to sit far from Maggies.

[@Josh442]

Yes, that would work. At 5' you may hear more bass because you're in the near field. There will be more lateral image spread between the woofer and tweeter at 5' than at a distance, because the woofer and tweeter are separated by a greater angle.

[@rf14dmb]

I need to try a pair of these

[@zTheBigFishz]

I bought some 1.6's in 1999. Still love them. The imaging is what I like the most.

[@thenitroshop9377]

Please do the Cerwin Vega XLS 215 !!!!!!!!! Please !!! Please !!! Please !!!!

[@brianhowe2078]

Yet again, a black speaker against a black background. Why don't you wear black also so all we see is paper and your head. The content is always interesting and informative though I am so happy to just listen to you talk and look at the graph

[@dannyrichie9743]

Thanks, we have had this issue in mind and are planning a new location for filming.

[@michaelolivero8491]

Would this kit work for the standard LRS as well?

[@dannyrichie9743]

We already have an upgrade for the standard LRS: gr-research.com/product/magnepan-lrs/

[@toddlee2571]

I can't see them

[@GregBraden-c9k]

If I am not mistaken, Magnepan tunes each panel of a pair slightly differently with their “buttons.” This may be an instance where both speakers of the pair need to be measured and upgraded.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Nope, we had both of them here.

[@OCDHIFiGuy]

Yeah, it's confirmed by Magnepan. They are tuned differently on purpose

[@Starch1b2c3d4a]

I heard Magnepan themselves can install the gr crossovers. Dat true?

[@Josh442]

I don't know about the GR crossovers, but they will do custom tweaks if you want.

[@ericelmore887]

If anyone lives in maryland and would like to take on this project to upgrade lrs+ I would love to have someone to take on this with me.

[@sepolansky]

I am close by and would be happy to help. @ericelmore887

[@sepolansky]

See above

[@ericelmore887]

@@sepolanskysorry what do you mean look above?

[@sepolansky]

I've never posted here before and am unfamiliar with how things post. I added your name so you would see the response. I'm not sure how to PM you with my contact info...

[@Mb2finder]

Will the upgrade work with the non plus lrs?

[@pedrocols]

No. If you look at the website they have a different upgrade for the non plus.

[@cbayardelle]

Why spend money on a new crossover, moving magnepans forward or aft, all frequency response change drastically. Many reviewers never complained about the lrs sounding bad Great work though.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Moving them around doesn't change the fact that the drivers are playing on top of each other or remove the cheap parts and ferrous material from the signal path.

[@j-rod6420]

Maybe we should just wait and see how the mod works out.Hopefully people will post their results in this comment section.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@j-rod6420 One customer with a Magnepan upgrade from us already has. see a post from @OddAudioCanada

[@CashGravel]

Just by using electronic crossovers and fixing my speakers using his graph, the sound is dramatically better

[@Kevhead7]

Nice work! Will your company be presenting at AXPONA this year. It would be great to hear your products live and in person!

[@dannyrichie9743]

We are not planning on it.

[@Kevhead7]

@@dannyrichie9743 It would be great to see you guys. Maybe next year.

[@brrryan2908]

Are Maggies for everybody? No, but I love their realistic sweet spot and cohesive phase physics. 1 watt @ 1 meter has ALWAYS been a ridiculous measurement because that's not how/where listeners listen to high fidelity loudspeakers, and it doesn't represent how sound blends at the listener's ears. "Off axis?" I've never given a rat's ass about off axis. I'm glad to see ribbon driver technology is making advances. Thank you for making a good idea even better!

[@tm55555]

I have some de-fused and attenuator bypassed 2.7R speakers and they are absolutely magical. I run the speakers at 750wpc and a REL G1 subwoofer as well.