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Glen Scrivener & Matt Dillahunty • Morality: Can atheism deliver a better world?

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For more debates, updates and a bonus clip of Matt and Glen discussing the Trans controversy that divided The Atheist Experience sign up at www.thebigconve...
Matt Dillahunty, host of The Atheist Experience, and Glen Scrivener, director of Speak Life, debate whether atheism or Christianity can deliver the morality we need for a better world.
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@PremierUnbelievable
@PremierUnbelievable 4 жыл бұрын
For a bonus clip of Matt and Glen discussing the Atheist Experience Trans controversy sign up at www.thebigconversation.show Many people have also requested links to the studies cited by Glen to show the positive effects of religion: Meta-analysis of 3000+ studies on religion & spirituality and health: www.researchgate.net/publication/237200852_Religion_Spirituality_and_Health_The_Research_and_Clinical_Implications Mental Health: meta-analyis of 850 studies www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09540260124661 Other studies and meta-analyses: veraznanjemir.bos.rs/materijal/Values%20and%20religiosity_a%20meta-analysis.pdf tonyjack.org/files/2013%20April%20poster%20Religion%20Dogmatism%20-%20Intersections%20Prize%20winner%202nd%20place%20Social%20Sciences.pdf www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19210054 dornsife.usc.edu/assets/sites/545/docs/Wendy_Wood_Research_Articles/Social_Influence/hall.matz.wood.2010.final_why_dont_we_practice_what_we_preach.pdf journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0008429810377404 www.jstor.org/stable/1387984?seq=1 journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0013164497057006007
@chainsong9546
@chainsong9546 4 жыл бұрын
that was a snoozer....matt seemed jet lagged and the other guy seemed like he had too pee really badly...literally nothing was accomplished--nothing
@chainsong9546
@chainsong9546 4 жыл бұрын
and you derailed the whole conversation with the hitler crap
@johncart07
@johncart07 4 жыл бұрын
Matt claims that the Soviet union wasn't secular humanism, but he is only focused on the aftermath. When if first started, it sold all the same humanist dreams to the people. That was the hole point of communism, to produce a social utopia. That was the point Peterson was trying to make when they debated.
@franklindzioba13
@franklindzioba13 4 жыл бұрын
Matt's argument that you can't have a Christian moral code unless everyone agrees to it is weak. Western Civilization is rooted in Christian philosophy and has been furtile ground for Atheism. So Matt's existence is anecdotal evidence against his position. You can ground your social morality in God and still have Atheists accept the benefits without appealing to divinity. To say you must have a secular or humanist morality to appease the Atheist is sort of special pleading for his point. This doesn't even take into account the effect that the idea that an invisible omnipotent intelligence watching over all might have a net utilitarian benefit.
@johncart07
@johncart07 4 жыл бұрын
@@franklindzioba13 We are all acting out Christian moral values, we are all inculturated in it in the West. All our movies have religious themes. It happens either consciously or unconsciously. Morality isn't suspended until we all agree, we act it out every day. Matt's arguments are super weak.
@jasonwilloughby1372
@jasonwilloughby1372 4 жыл бұрын
Why is it that these guys always seem to be implying that pre christianity there were no persons who cared about their fellow human beings.
@calebgomez8992
@calebgomez8992 4 жыл бұрын
Time stamp?
@carlauclair8748
@carlauclair8748 4 жыл бұрын
Such as? Most just cared only about their community/culture and no one beyond that.
@carlauclair8748
@carlauclair8748 4 жыл бұрын
@morningstar This small community also lead to the West.....it's not so much the numbers, as it's about the road.
@psychicandice
@psychicandice 4 жыл бұрын
Christopher Hitchens had a great response to people who say “there was no good before Christ” when Jesus talks about the Good Samaritan he tells the story of a man who did good to a fellow human being but the Samaritan man can’t be a Christian because Jesus is telling a story of him and it predates Christianity. Glen’s argument is so fallacious because he starts with a conclusion and tries to work it backwards.
@calebgomez8992
@calebgomez8992 4 жыл бұрын
@@psychicandice what conclusion did he start with?
@tarikberair9562
@tarikberair9562 3 жыл бұрын
Guys I sincerely envy you. As an atheist from a Muslim background, I can not see such a calm and open exchange between an atheist and a member of the Islamic "clergy" happening anytime soon.
@Thumbelina298
@Thumbelina298 Жыл бұрын
I can visualise one and meeeen😂😂😂😂
@davidnewland2461
@davidnewland2461 3 ай бұрын
Which is why religious freedom is a good thing. And why the Christian right wingnuts need to be opposed at every point possible
@pebystroll
@pebystroll 3 ай бұрын
I was even shocked once I began seeing the critical academia with the quran. It is a long way away from where we are with the bible
@rowdy3837
@rowdy3837 2 жыл бұрын
The conversational format is so much more effective than the traditional formal debate. There’s no talking past one another, there aren’t as many unanswered questions or missing rebuttals. The participants can actually drive the focus of the subject matter and force their opponent to answer. Wish some of classic popular debates had utilized this format. Thankfully we are seeing more and more of these. Outstanding!
@whittfamily1
@whittfamily1 Жыл бұрын
I agree with you about the format as long as each participant cannot talk longer than some time T, perhaps two minutes, at a time and interruptions are prohibited. In the discussion of Matt and Glen there were a few interruptions, but not many.
@4Mr.Crowley2
@4Mr.Crowley2 Жыл бұрын
Well, apologist James Tour just crashed the entire bus of apologists with his recent insane “debate” with Prof. Dave of KZbin - he literally screamed at Dave while acting like an unhinged maniac - he also misled his own students regarding the chemistry that they were supposed to be discussing.
@tsolum4126
@tsolum4126 8 ай бұрын
You might like Alex Malpass. He had a funny discussion with a jerk, John Lee. JL was rude and Alex was patient and lead him towards finally seeing his faulty logic.
@larryjake7783
@larryjake7783 2 ай бұрын
Thats because people like Matt and Glen don't know how to debate. Especially Matt, he literally doesn't get debate and thus the exchange can't take place. It's like playing chess and the opponent imports rules from tik tac toe
@doug196
@doug196 3 жыл бұрын
Love Glen's totally unjustified and cringe smugness and his complete reliance on overconfident assertion.
@elrojo79
@elrojo79 4 жыл бұрын
Matt’s final statement: Restates his position clearly. Glenn’s final statement: Intentionally mischaracterize Matt’s position, never provide support for his own belief.
@UnRe4lSkat3r
@UnRe4lSkat3r 4 жыл бұрын
m riggs trying? To convince people of theism?
@UnRe4lSkat3r
@UnRe4lSkat3r 4 жыл бұрын
m riggs so u like the more gentle approach? Like the Socratic method? I totally can understand that, it takes all types to finally put the seed of doubt within. Some respond well with debates, some don’t. Have u ever checked out Anthony Magnabosco?
@The1stMrJohn
@The1stMrJohn 4 жыл бұрын
@@UnRe4lSkat3r Anthony is brilliant 🙂
@The1stMrJohn
@The1stMrJohn 4 жыл бұрын
@@UnRe4lSkat3r 😀💚🐕🎸🎵
@whocares1761
@whocares1761 4 жыл бұрын
@@UnRe4lSkat3r I just learned about SE literally like 2 weeks ago such an interesting way to look at things let people just talk themselves into realizing that they have no evidence to support their claims
@101egoodman
@101egoodman 4 жыл бұрын
Every time they cut to Matt I expect him to be rolling his eyes.... and he isn't. The man has self control I don't
@davidepintus6490
@davidepintus6490 4 жыл бұрын
I swear, this man has been dealing with these people f twenty years. If Nirvana were to actually exist he would probably be closer to it than the Dalai Lama.
@christophermyers6372
@christophermyers6372 4 жыл бұрын
I think he brings the fire and brimstone kinda talk with the no no no cutting off during discussions only on the A.E show because that's like what people expect when watching it for better or worse. He still has those traits during debates and similar discussions but their far more reigned in and he becomes pretty chill for the most part.
@steevrawjers
@steevrawjers 4 жыл бұрын
Eric Goodman true lol
@Freethinkingtheist77
@Freethinkingtheist77 4 жыл бұрын
Or maybe when you know your stuff you don't need to resort to disrespect.
@theneverending9319
@theneverending9319 4 жыл бұрын
He’s pretty obnoxious on his show
@jdnlaw1974
@jdnlaw1974 Жыл бұрын
As a former Christian, I’m a much happier, kinder, giving person as an agnostic. No yoke is lighter than one removed.
@danielsmithiv1279
@danielsmithiv1279 Жыл бұрын
So, as an Agnostic, you don't know if God doesn't exist then?
@jdnlaw1974
@jdnlaw1974 Жыл бұрын
@@danielsmithiv1279 Yeah. There’s no way to prove that anything doesn’t exist. For example, you can’t prove Bigfoot doesn’t exist. It’s very possible there was a creator that created all of “this” and I’m open to proof of that. I’ve just not seen anything as of yet that proves it or that provides enough evidence to convince me of it. And if there was a creator, who or what was it? Was there one creator or multiple creators? There’s just not enough evidence to convince me of it.
@josuevaladez1176
@josuevaladez1176 Жыл бұрын
Same. I always tell people I’m a much better person now that I’m not a Christian.
@orionlax626
@orionlax626 Жыл бұрын
​@@danielsmithiv1279 Yep. Agnosticism is the position that one doesn't know whether or not a god exists. We don't know whether or not OP believes one exists, but I'm guessing they don't, so they'd be an agnostic atheist.
@rsbds5791
@rsbds5791 Жыл бұрын
Im much happier as Christian and kinder as Christian
@Belief_Before_Glory
@Belief_Before_Glory Жыл бұрын
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." -Marcus Aurelius
@danielsmithiv1279
@danielsmithiv1279 Жыл бұрын
Excellent quote.
@Belief_Before_Glory
@Belief_Before_Glory Жыл бұрын
@@danielsmithiv1279 Thank you, Daniel. "I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live as if there isn't and to die to find out that there is." -Albert Camus All the best!✨
@A_M_Bobb
@A_M_Bobb 4 жыл бұрын
Can you encourage Glen to post his "countless scientific studies" he mentioned? I'd very much like to read them. Thanks.
@roblewis7186
@roblewis7186 4 жыл бұрын
I was thinking that exact thing!!!
@patriciasampson9317
@patriciasampson9317 4 жыл бұрын
I'm guessing they came from good church abiding researchers, anything that could be replicated by peers would be an interesting idea and would likely be used to push religion.
@4everVillas
@4everVillas 4 жыл бұрын
Glen kept mentioning these studies as "univariate" as if that's a commendable quality in the studies. It actually means that religiousity (however defined) is correlated with x in one study and y in another and z in yet another. As we should all know by now, correlation is not causation and, equally important, a "univariate" study fails to control for other possible explanations of the relationship. That the consumption of ice cream is correlated with crime doesn't mean that eating ice cream causes people to commit crime. Instead, ice cream consumption and crime tend to vary with how hot it is outside, but a "univariate" study of ice cream and crime would discover a spurious or false correlation. On another level, the Quran champions the weak, the poor, the orphaned just as much as Christianity if not more so. Why privilege Christianity as the source for caring for the downtrodden. And oh yeh, there was that guy Gandhi. I don't believe he was a Christian.
@lolbroklol
@lolbroklol 4 жыл бұрын
"Literally thousands of studies!" Which I can't find.
@darkwolf4434
@darkwolf4434 4 жыл бұрын
Aswell as Dillahunty's scientific studies
@chrismathis4162
@chrismathis4162 4 жыл бұрын
The fact that a religious man is happier than an atheist is of no more significance than the fact that a drunk man is happier than a sober one.
@gregorsamsa1364
@gregorsamsa1364 4 жыл бұрын
I'm not convinced a drunk man is likely to be happier than a sober man
@lifestough5558
@lifestough5558 4 жыл бұрын
Gregor Samsa And i’m not convinced a religious man is happier than an athiest, what’s ur point?
@gregorsamsa1364
@gregorsamsa1364 4 жыл бұрын
@@lifestough5558 Not sure what you're confused about. I think my comment is self explanatory
@chrismathis4162
@chrismathis4162 4 жыл бұрын
@@gregorsamsa1364 The point of the quote was to demonstrate that one's feelings have nothing to do with what is objectively true. People may very well find the idea of god satisfying and comforting but in no way does that demonstrate that a god exists.
@gregorsamsa1364
@gregorsamsa1364 4 жыл бұрын
@@chrismathis4162 I understand that. I was saying that I think it might be a flawed analogy. There are studies which suggest that, on average(at least in the US), a religious man is happier than an atheist(which likely has something to do with the fact that we have to deal with all the religious people surrounding us), but I would suspect that, on average, a sober man is actually happier than a drunk man
@iggysfriend4431
@iggysfriend4431 3 жыл бұрын
Glen says "literally there are thousands of studies that show the benifits...." Please list some of them I would like to see some of them.
@stevemull22x
@stevemull22x 6 ай бұрын
They’re eye witness testimonies 😢
@truthovertea
@truthovertea 5 ай бұрын
Like he said, Google is a great tool to start.
@AliAbidalkareem
@AliAbidalkareem Жыл бұрын
There not single debate that I watched without the religious debater not harping on the objective morals!!
@3MrNiceGuy15
@3MrNiceGuy15 4 жыл бұрын
It's amazing how Matt can explain his position in such a clear and concise manner and yet people will still build a straw man. These comments are pathetic.
@davidh5020
@davidh5020 4 жыл бұрын
People would rather go into delusions than admit there is a possibility that they are wrong.
@patrickmcardle952
@patrickmcardle952 4 жыл бұрын
David H as atheists do when they watch a guy like WLC dismantle a well known argument that atheists view as being a knock down. Theists and atheists are by and large cut from the same cloth with the main difference being that atheists will show far less self awareness through criticising theists for that which they are blatantly guilty of themselves
@davidh5020
@davidh5020 4 жыл бұрын
@@patrickmcardle952 I have yet to see WLC dismantle anything, so I don't know what you are talking about. I also have seen a huge lack of self awareness in the Theist community.
@patrickmcardle952
@patrickmcardle952 4 жыл бұрын
@@davidh5020 Clearly you haven't seen much of his content where he dismantles popular slogans and atheistic lingo which make for good soundbites but which fall apart when subjected to scrutiny. Either that or you're the kind of person that would rather delude yourself than admit you're wrong or that WLC has ever produced a logically sound argument. This is exactly what I was talking about when I touched on atheists lack of self awareness
@patrickmcardle952
@patrickmcardle952 4 жыл бұрын
@@davidh5020 As I said earlier and repeat again, atheists and theists online in forums like this when engaging those they disagree with are cut from the same cloth
@Jokes4561
@Jokes4561 4 жыл бұрын
"It's there in Judaism but it's a uniquely Christian idea".
@johanneskramer9490
@johanneskramer9490 4 жыл бұрын
You fail to see that Judaism is fOreShadOwiNg for Christianity!
@jmac4910
@jmac4910 4 жыл бұрын
@@johanneskramer9490 Unless you're Jewish...
@elpsycongroo69
@elpsycongroo69 4 жыл бұрын
It is an even more appalling statement when you consider the fact that Zoroastrianism did come up with those ideas even before Judaisme
@kentonbaird1723
@kentonbaird1723 3 жыл бұрын
Contradictions and double standards are the cornerstones upon which every insecure foundation rests.
@victorvanvolt8425
@victorvanvolt8425 3 жыл бұрын
@@johanneskramer9490 Cant a muslim say that the bible is the foreshadowing of the Quran ?
@polarfroge
@polarfroge 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for being kickarse, MD. I wish I had this content when I was a teen. It would have spared a decade+ of breaking away from dogma and uber-religious rhetoric.
@fcchannel6162
@fcchannel6162 2 жыл бұрын
you know as a studier of history i found it that it was always the people called crazy who always ended up being the right ones.
@aurorapaisley7453
@aurorapaisley7453 3 ай бұрын
​@@fcchannel6162Of course. You will always have a convenient scapegoat from someone who's no longer useful to your cult so might as well take advantage of it. Fake Christians, anti-christ all sorts of labels
@randalrobinson3424
@randalrobinson3424 4 ай бұрын
I'm impressed that both of these men are able to engage in civil discussion while so strongly disagreeing with each other.
@todbeard8118
@todbeard8118 4 жыл бұрын
When discussing how the bible endorsed slavery Glen shook it off as Old Covenant but slavery never was corrected in the New Testament. 1 Peter 2:18 tells slaves to obey their masters, even the cruel ones.
@Katalyzt
@Katalyzt 4 жыл бұрын
Exactly ;O)
@OkieAllDay
@OkieAllDay 4 жыл бұрын
To give a very brief rebuttal - stealing another person (or knowingly buying that stolen person) is grounds for the death penalty in the Bible. Slavery in the Bible was reserved for prisoner's of war (sure beats being put to death) or as a form of endentured servitude for being in debt. If you beat your slave they are released for chipping a tooth or loosing an eye. And they are automatically released after every seven years. Biblical slavery had ZERO to do with race. That's a fact. But again, if you are an atheist then you have no ground to ever say something is truly morally right or wrong. That is simply your opinion. You can disagree with Hitler (as I'm sure you do), but he was just bucking the herd mentality. If all we are is the evolution of single celled organisms then what a person chooses to do is no more "immoral" than when a lion kills a zebra.
@todbeard8118
@todbeard8118 4 жыл бұрын
@@OkieAllDay Levitical Law only applied to fellow Hebrews. That's why Leviticus25:44-46 stated to buy your slaves from the nations around you, you can own them as property for life and bequeath them to your children as inheritance. The foreigners were bought and sold as slaves. I doubt God would have inspired the author of Leviticus to write this if he didn't want Hebrews to have foreign bought slaves. Leviticus 25:39 states Hebrew servants were not to be treated as slaves but as hired workers. They were released after 6 years. Big difference in the way foreign bought slaves and Hebrew servants were treated. Apologists BS and insinuate all biblical slavery consists of the treatment that only applied to Hebrew servants whenever tap dancing about biblical slavery.
@todbeard8118
@todbeard8118 4 жыл бұрын
@@OkieAllDay I can say something is right or wrong just as well as you can. Its humorous when Christians spout morality especially when their foundation is their ultimate book of morality that endorses slavery and where their God commanded a number of atrocities such as the slaughter of the Midianite women and children as well as the Amalekite infants.
@todbeard8118
@todbeard8118 4 жыл бұрын
@@OkieAllDay By the way, guess what God's kill count by his command was in the bible? Over 2,017,000 not including 65 cities where the total slain wasn't given. Guess what Satan's kill count was? 10 of Job's children which were killed only after Gods permission so I guess you'd add that to God's total.
@chikkipop
@chikkipop 4 жыл бұрын
*"Can atheism deliver a better world?"* Without having listened, I trust that someone brought up the point that this is not even a proper question.
@49perfectss
@49perfectss 4 жыл бұрын
Ya Matt caught that one
@ocrancienthistory3326
@ocrancienthistory3326 4 жыл бұрын
Well why shouldn't it be?
@ocrancienthistory3326
@ocrancienthistory3326 4 жыл бұрын
@David Noel yes, obviously, but there's still a different world which results from it. Don't act like it's "just a belief" with no implications.
@Tore_Lund
@Tore_Lund 4 жыл бұрын
@David Noel Being Atheist is not a simple concept, if it is impossible to define what you reject. You can indeed reject a conscious being, a creator. etc, but you can't also say that human life has intrinsic value and morality has value because it feels good. Not even an evolutionary argument is sufficient to validate such claim. It is like claiming that breathing is the right thing to do, because it increases your survival chances and I can share that opinion with all of mankind. However intellectually, you cannot claim that being alive is better than being dead, so the argument falls. Being Atheist is cherry picking meaning, just like religion is. There is only Nihilism, but being alive is a contradiction even in that case.
@TimSManuel
@TimSManuel 4 жыл бұрын
@@ocrancienthistory3326 It's not even a belief, and most importantly, it is not a worldview, why do theists have such a hard time understanding this. Atheism is the lack of a belief. You can get atheists who believe in helping others (altruism) as well as atheists who believe in helping themselves (egoism). Atheism is just a position about a single topic, the rejection of the claim that there is a god. It's as silly of a question as "Will having a mustache make men better people?", and then pointing out all the people who have mustaches who did good or bad things and linking their actions to having a mustache. It is not atheism in itself that will make a better or worse community, just as it is not the mustache, it is the beliefs that extend beyond these things.
@groupecrescendo2408
@groupecrescendo2408 5 ай бұрын
The Juliet and Shakespeare analogy backfired! Great reply!
@laurameszaros9547
@laurameszaros9547 3 жыл бұрын
Despite hints of his own bias emerging from time to time, I think Justin Brierley is an outstanding moderator.
@reda29100
@reda29100 2 жыл бұрын
I know atheists do hate the (1:19:38 why Nazis are wrong) point which shows his bias but that's exactly why he's a great moderator and example of how we should administer dialogues in the fields and points of view we diametrically oppose. He's not the idc type of guy who identifies as a Christian and takes the conversation wherever it leads, but you can see him clearly (obviously because he's Christian) siding with Glen. He's verbally on the side of the theist, emotionally invested in the conversation, yet he can at the same time take himself from the situation, dissociate from the conversation, battle his temptations (sounds Christian ik) not to give one side more weight, at least as a moderator, than the other. Truly as lesson for all of us
@skyeangelofdeath7363
@skyeangelofdeath7363 Жыл бұрын
@@reda29100 Yeah, the Nazi discussion really went off the rails though. The apologist does not seem to know much about that historical period either. The "Judeop-Christian" moral sensibility of the "west" had nothing to do with WW2.
@TitenSxull
@TitenSxull Жыл бұрын
He's generally very good and professional. I'm not aware of any equivalent Christian presenters here in the USA. I wish there were more Christian shows like this. He genuinely seems to enjoy the conversations too which helps a lot because he doesn't come off closed minded.
@w4rsh1p
@w4rsh1p 4 жыл бұрын
Glen can't debate. All he's doing is preaching. This is frustrating. Repeating your beliefs isn't evidence they are true.
@scubaguy1989
@scubaguy1989 4 жыл бұрын
Actually, Matt was preaching atheism the whole way through - beliefs that he can't prove. Me thinks the boot was actually on the other foot to what you suggest.
@Wispyapples
@Wispyapples 4 жыл бұрын
@@scubaguy1989 "me thinks" you took the boot off and did the ol switcheroo seems you didnt hear anything in the video because athiesm isnt a belief system , its im not convinced. which is the default position.
@MagicalGalaxies112
@MagicalGalaxies112 4 жыл бұрын
@@scubaguy1989 another Christian asking atheists to prove that there's no god,lmao people like you are so indoctrinated to the point where you don't even have any common sense at all
@DeanCole
@DeanCole 4 жыл бұрын
@@scubaguy1989 Matt is pushing critical thought, he isn't preaching Atheism. If you want to understand the difference then just pretend that Matt is debating a Muslim believer or a Hindu believer. You will then see how much sense Matt makes and how the Muslim/Hindu point of view isn't something coming from good reasoning.
@lievenvanloo6011
@lievenvanloo6011 4 жыл бұрын
He was also constantly presenting christianity in this utopian view, "the strong sacrificing themselves for the weak", and accuses other religions and atheism of not including everyone, creating this "circle". He makes it seem like that is the foundation of christianity. But we have seen throughout history that that is not the case, plenty of christians did not stand up for the weak, and definitely didn't always accept people with different viewpoints. For an example of the first, christians not standing up for the weak, well that is the reason why the protestant split happened, because the church was abusing its power, exactly the opposite of what Glen claims is the foundation of christianity. For the second point, he himself says "we're having a symposium when we should be fighting a war". This is the troubling viewpoint that we should fight people with opposing viewpoints, instead of trying to reason with them. He turns it around by bringing up Hitler, but clearly knows that he screwed up. While God extends his love to everyone, it's clear that he loves some more than others.
@setboy1
@setboy1 4 жыл бұрын
Glen is painful to listen to and comes off as arrogantly not really interested in understanding what Matt is saying
@MrTHEtesters
@MrTHEtesters 4 жыл бұрын
setboy1 this is so true and sadly most often the case in these kinds of debates
@bigfan1041
@bigfan1041 4 жыл бұрын
Interesting that you would use an unsubstantiated character attack instead of a real comment
@MrTHEtesters
@MrTHEtesters 4 жыл бұрын
JxJxJxJx define real comment?
@bigfan1041
@bigfan1041 4 жыл бұрын
@@MrTHEtesters Not containing fallacious ad hominems
@A-VeryJudgemental-Guy
@A-VeryJudgemental-Guy 4 жыл бұрын
JxJxJxJx what makes it unsubstantiated, did you not watch the debate😂
@Thornspyre81
@Thornspyre81 3 жыл бұрын
As a former heroin addict I second that notion that doing dope does not equate to happiness 🤘
@maxviking3210
@maxviking3210 3 жыл бұрын
I am not a Buddhist, but just by looking at The Noble Eightfold Path and the Mahayana text they seems to have been able to come up with a moral system without Christianity and perhaps an even higher moral standard then Christianity. You see atheist is from all over the world and some have different religious backgrounds. So we don’t have to lean on the christian moral at all, we can use Buddhist moral.. or we can just think logical, what it all comes down to.
@rhettbr2004
@rhettbr2004 4 жыл бұрын
The WWII argument is asinine. The British may had been fighting Hitler but the US famously DID NOT GET INVOLVED until 1941 when - not because of Hitler - but because of PEARL HARBOR. Bad argument and I'm surprised Matt didn't slam this guy for being so ignorant of history.
@siobhangraham7280
@siobhangraham7280 4 жыл бұрын
Also the fact that the Nazi party was allied with Christianity, required Christianity in order to be a member and to hold any office, and sent atheists and non-Christians to the concentration camps as "asocial." The motto of the Nazi party was "Gott Mit Uns," "God is With Us."
@Alulim-Eridu
@Alulim-Eridu 4 жыл бұрын
There's a number of times I was surprised to see Glen say crap that Matt just let him get away with, w/out really addressing. Stuff Glen says, that I know Matt is aware of & knows how to effectively deal with! I don't know if Matt was just trying to be extra gentle, & extra polite ...because he's a guest in a foreign country or something like that But it is frustrating to see Matt let such foolish preaching, slide into what is supposed to be a good conversation
@puggydad
@puggydad 4 жыл бұрын
Eric Boczar I thought the same the first time I listened ed to this debate. Then I went and listened to what Matt’s responses where and it seemed that he was trying to not go down those rabbit holes and steer the conversation back towards the greater topic of secular morality.
@ericscaillet2232
@ericscaillet2232 4 жыл бұрын
@@puggydad it would point that way.
@stevebinning977
@stevebinning977 4 жыл бұрын
The USA became involved with the war against Nazi Germany 4 days after Pearl Harbour when Hitler declared war on the USA .
@Santi_Santiago_
@Santi_Santiago_ 4 жыл бұрын
"I don't need god to save me, I need a god to demonstrate that he exists" 🔥 burn....
@stylis666
@stylis666 4 жыл бұрын
"Burn? Such a limited imagination." - Pinhead
@stylis666
@stylis666 4 жыл бұрын
@Truth Matters What's around us is a natural universe and we're a natural result of it, shown by the fact that we're made of exactly the same stuff. It is not evidence of a creator. Did you parents create you? Or were you born, naturally, after growing in your mom's belly, naturally, after she was impregnated, by your brother most likely. If truth really matters to you, at least learn to think critically and study up on logical fallacies and syllogism.
@Santi_Santiago_
@Santi_Santiago_ 4 жыл бұрын
@@stylis666 I keep things simple.
@Santi_Santiago_
@Santi_Santiago_ 4 жыл бұрын
@Truth Matters Atheist propaganda? That's rich.
@MagicalGalaxies112
@MagicalGalaxies112 4 жыл бұрын
@Truth Matters HAHAHAH atheist propaganda? that's the most irony shit I've ever heard coming from a christian
@paultrueman2
@paultrueman2 3 жыл бұрын
Loved this debate!... Great points by Matt
@noahspeak147
@noahspeak147 Жыл бұрын
Matt is the only one being truly honest here
@NoContextRDH
@NoContextRDH 11 ай бұрын
Nonsense. No basis of morality in his worldview, we are molecules in motion making it up as we go along. If a government passes a law, using logic and reason to state paedophilic behaviour is now legal, on what basis could you reasonably object??
@pabriny
@pabriny 6 ай бұрын
As I heard Glen explain blood magic is not blood magic, I had the same thought. This guy knows what he believes is a lode of crap. Look at him squirm trying to explain BS.
@aurorapaisley7453
@aurorapaisley7453 3 ай бұрын
​@@pabrinyThey couldn't reconcile the sunk cost that they feel digging themselves in so they couldn't bring themselves to being sincere and truthful
@germanshepherd2701
@germanshepherd2701 4 жыл бұрын
That was good of Matt to turn it around on Glenn. “Ok, let’s assume I don’t value human life and now YOU try to convince me why I should.” “Well, ummmmm...”
@joanissac9966
@joanissac9966 4 жыл бұрын
At that point You don't need refutation, You need help lol
@davidstorrs
@davidstorrs 4 жыл бұрын
@@joanissac9966 That was the point, though. Glen was playing the tired "objective morality" card, claiming that the only grounding for morality is the Christian god and that somehow this is the default position -- that Matt must prove it is *not* the case. Matt was demonstrating that the fundamental grounding for morality is something that we choose for ourselves, and we typically choose human well-being as our grounding because we are primates who evolved to value human well-being. "No God required," as @BionicDance would say.
@joanissac9966
@joanissac9966 4 жыл бұрын
@@davidstorrs 1) He must be arguing for God's existence because of the existence of objective moral duties as we observe, not the Christian God per se 2)When take this view to its logical conclusion, doesn't that make morality subjective and arbitrary? But We do see that morality is objective and not subjective 🧐 Also, this view doesn't explain why should we be obliged to follow them? These are the ramifications of a non teleological perspective on this subject
@davidstorrs
@davidstorrs 4 жыл бұрын
@@joanissac9966 What evidence has convinced you that morality is objective? I have seen none and I'd be interested to hear yours.
@cbizzybandamus
@cbizzybandamus 4 жыл бұрын
David K. Storrs Matt has talked about objective morality many times on Axp. He also has video about it on his channel
@jtheist32
@jtheist32 4 жыл бұрын
Glen seems like a nice guy. A nice guy who has never honestly questioned his beliefs.
@jtheist32
@jtheist32 4 жыл бұрын
@Gabe Norman Because literally ever single "point" he makes is like "Baby's First Theology." Every point he makes could be debunked with even 30 seconds of honest investigation.
@bobyoung3857
@bobyoung3857 4 жыл бұрын
He, just like all theist like to refer to a script. They may even say atheist use a script,but the difference is theist script is about 2500 years expired.
@silverwolfmonastery
@silverwolfmonastery 4 жыл бұрын
I agree, Glen seems like a wonderful human. I am suspicious he uses flawless logic, except with his faith.
@jamesppesch
@jamesppesch 4 жыл бұрын
J w I don’t think you even believe the nonsense you espouse. You seem like a Sunday school ditto head. Many atheists align with Matt because he uses logic, Occam’s razor, skepticism, and rational thoughts to express his refutation of theist claims which many atheists have also considered.
@glenhill9884
@glenhill9884 4 жыл бұрын
@J w People follow whomever they choose, and Matt put it pretty clearly when he said there are some jerk atheists out there and some atheists who have not used the best reasoning. You can't avoid that. Glen was pretty irrational in his explanations. Matt was not. I think Matt was far too kind in this debate. When Glen brought up the trinity (God is the son. The Son is God. One is inside the other), he should have pounced on the illogical way that was presented, as well as the fact that the trinity is not in the bible. It was added scores of years later. Also, Glen went off on his "moral explanation" of God by saying "God is love". No, sorry. That's not how it works. You have a publication called the bible, and in it we don't read that LOVE created a universe or talked to people or wrestled with them. It wasn't LOVE that formed the basis for the Inquisition, Crusades, and witch burning. I was astounded that none of that came up. I was NOT surprised at how often Glen avoided answering direct questions.
@andrewthomas0402
@andrewthomas0402 2 ай бұрын
Been going through a lot of these discussions/debates and I am just loving it. Nice to see disagreeing without being disagreeable
@TheFirstAtom
@TheFirstAtom 3 жыл бұрын
Are you guys ever going to have Matt back on? This was an awesome, cool, and calm conversation. We need more of these!
@noneofyourbusiness7055
@noneofyourbusiness7055 Жыл бұрын
It's been well over 2 years by now. Looks like they learned from their mistake of having his sharp mind that close to their narrative...
@00dfm00
@00dfm00 Жыл бұрын
@@noneofyourbusiness7055 🤣👍
@noneofyourbusiness7055
@noneofyourbusiness7055 Жыл бұрын
Nice ad hominem fallacy. Goes well with the false equivalence fallacy. The tu quoque fallacy on top of that seems a bit much though, any kind of point that's not invalid crying about social norms might've been nice...
@noneofyourbusiness7055
@noneofyourbusiness7055 Жыл бұрын
Magic, like a god speaking things into being? Magic, like a talking snake? Magic, like magically enchanted fruit granting knowledge of good & evil? Magic, like cursing all snakes and humans forever? And that's just chapter *1* of the dogma you believe, before the magic of miraculous healing, food multiplication, water walking, combustion and resurrection spells, and much more. A mind projection fallacy, then.
@anthonypc1
@anthonypc1 4 жыл бұрын
17:00 I always find it odd when religious apologists criticize something secular by accusing it of being like religion.
@nono7105
@nono7105 4 жыл бұрын
It's not a criticism of the thing, but rather of the idea that it's free of religiosity because it's secular. The secular argument has long been "less religion is better than more, therefore let's make things secular". The criticism that the religious apologists are making is that an increase in secularism does not equate to a decrease in religiosity. In fact, what it tends to do is create spontaneous, spurious, ill-thought out religions, such as intersectional feminism, veganism, environmentalism, and cyclists. If you instead advocate for a traditional religion in your society then you'll at least have a rational lasso to throw on the human instinct towards religiosity as well as a foundation for morality and a way of giving people meaning and purpose in life.
@anthonypc1
@anthonypc1 4 жыл бұрын
​@@nono7105 yes yes, I get that point as well -- whether or not it's what is intended by individual apologists for religion. And I'm not one to assume Every thing associated with a religion must be bad for members or outsiders. There can be many benign or healthy rituals and bonding traditions, and some more than others get to enjoy a supportive community, all organized around their temple or faith, or funded by it. I just can't think of any beneficial element for structuring community or enriching one's human "spirit" which couldn't be achieved at Least as well without the other aspects of religion. i.e. Superstitious beliefs, and dogma. Pointing a finger at secular things, like a government or social justice movement, or people for the ethical treatment of animals... or cyclists, and exposing ways they are different and similar to religiosity can be productive. Whether those similarities are beneficial or toxic is just the next step in a diagnoses. I haven't heard much about dogmatic evangelical cyclists wielding their influence in government to restrict the rights of others much at all, though I may be out of the loop on that religious sport. (or is it a lifestyle)
@nono7105
@nono7105 4 жыл бұрын
@@anthonypc1 It's a virus.
@anthonypc1
@anthonypc1 4 жыл бұрын
@@nono7105 in the way that all commutable ideas are. the balance of harmful risks vs benefits of any viral ideas (or belief systems like faith-based dogma or scientific skepticism) is for us to judge.
@samanthacanales3183
@samanthacanales3183 4 жыл бұрын
@@anthonypc1 I found your response balance and truthful.
@wuphat
@wuphat 4 жыл бұрын
Glen mistakes that because some Christians have done good things it follows then that Christianity is therefore good and true.
@adomaster123
@adomaster123 4 жыл бұрын
TheBuilder and by that standard so is Buddhism friend. You’re going to have to do better.
@Wispyapples
@Wispyapples 4 жыл бұрын
@TheBuilder "Isn't"
@wuphat
@wuphat 4 жыл бұрын
@J w Except that's not what he said. No strawman. My assessment is what he argued.
@teachoc9482
@teachoc9482 3 жыл бұрын
This is an amazing, deep conversation with both sides listening and speaking genuinely to each other.
@strataverse
@strataverse 2 жыл бұрын
One side was having a conversation and listening, the other was dodging and making assertions left and right.
@reda29100
@reda29100 2 жыл бұрын
@@strataverse you're not denying he was listening I noticed, which is the civil part of any conversation
@XiagraBalls
@XiagraBalls 3 жыл бұрын
Two things I'm really glad MD picked up on here - Glen talking about evolution as the 'survival of the fittest' and MD pointing out that his use of the phrase in the context of morality to suggest that a belief in evolution and secular humanism leads to a moral system where the strong (i.e. physically or politically powerful) obliterate the weak is just a misunderstanding of the word 'fittest' in an evolutionary sense; secondly, the point about divorce - relationships breaking up can be damaging, of course, but isn't always worst than staying in an unhappy, self-destructive situation.
@neilsworldwide
@neilsworldwide 2 жыл бұрын
Ok so your two points I agree with. The guy was bullshitting about evolution, what evolution says is that there's traits that are desirable that are passed down and nature selects naturally what traits are advantageous. And there's actually studies that say that traits like being caring and helpfulness actually lead to better outcomes and evolution favors these traits over others. The point that all these religious people bring up is divorce, and how evil it is. And my question is always the same what's wrong with divorce. Seriously, what is wrong with it.
@XiagraBalls
@XiagraBalls 2 жыл бұрын
@@neilsworldwide Well, if you're in an abusive, unhappy relationship, probably not a lot.
@melindad180
@melindad180 4 жыл бұрын
Glen Scrivener stated (his problem) at the beginning: 8:56 "...I discovered I could do this thing for a living...." "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." -Upton Sinclair
@crazyprayingmantis5596
@crazyprayingmantis5596 4 жыл бұрын
BINGO!!!!!!
@praze2god37
@praze2god37 4 жыл бұрын
@Melinda D What about all of the atheists that were once well payed preachers? What about Antony Flew? What about Matt himself? Matt was going to be a preacher. He had a lot of support behind him. He very well could have made money being such. You know quotes aren't full-proof right? Also, he was a well-payed writer for newspapers and author. He became wealthy from his views on socialism. He wrote many books about his views and all sold well. He could very well be an example of his own quote according to himself.
@WhatsTheTakeaway
@WhatsTheTakeaway 4 жыл бұрын
You don't think Matt is getting paid for proselytizing atheism? Wow...
@GoodAvatar
@GoodAvatar 4 жыл бұрын
Likewise, anyone who can say that he respects Jordan Peterson is barking up the wrong tree. I agree with you completely about Scrivener realizing he could make a living by being deceptive or dishonest..... That's why I was so annoyed with his opening talking points also including Peterson, a man I regard as a con-artist in love with crafting verbal roller coasters.
@GoodAvatar
@GoodAvatar 4 жыл бұрын
@@WhatsTheTakeaway He's not "PROSELYTIZING" anything. He's an intelligent debater and he got famous on youtube..... *FOR BEING ANGRY AND HONEST* like many other atheists are!!! Certainly, he's annoyed with the cynical dishonesty of the religious, and that's plain to see.... But he doesn't really do the "Beg For Money to Replace the Church Organ" schtick. He doesn't say, "Send me money and the Flying Spaghetti Monster" will cure your cancer. He never says "Atheism is the cure for all your problems." He's not demanding money for atheist missionary work to Africa to convert the heathens... Using a term like "PROSELYTIZING" carries connotations that Matt Dillahunty doesn't use. Figure out a better word.
@johnhawkins4890
@johnhawkins4890 2 жыл бұрын
As a Christian of 48 years I have to say that Glen did not really convince here. Matt has a much sharper mind and made him struggle. Surprisingly he seemed to have an unsure grasp of his theology, or maybe he was just unsettled by his opponent.The issue of conscience was not really addressed here and I think may be the clue to how people perceive right from wrong whether they believe in God or not.
@queend9320
@queend9320 3 жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed this discussion. This was an excellent example of how to have a respectful conversation with those you disagree.
@langs13
@langs13 4 жыл бұрын
I'm an atheist. I dont believe in marriage. For my girlfriend to stay with me she wanted to be married. So I got married and gave her my word. For 20 years. My cousin is a preacher. He's getting divorced after 12 years. He cheated on his wife with another girl the entire marriage. So much for morals.
@BorgesProduction
@BorgesProduction 3 жыл бұрын
Your cousin had a choice. He could of been religious but not have a moral compass or a relationship with God. Just because one is religious, doesn’t mean they’ll live by moral standards
@bharathdeva9407
@bharathdeva9407 2 жыл бұрын
Was the girl hot.i mean she has to be worth it or else its for nth mate 🤣😂
@lnsflare1
@lnsflare1 2 жыл бұрын
My standard rule is to immediately distrust anyone who says that they know what God wants, especially if they want to get paid for doing so.
@PhysiKarlz
@PhysiKarlz 4 жыл бұрын
The condescension in Glen's voice from talking through unfalsifiable notions...
@nrg937
@nrg937 4 жыл бұрын
But, but, 1000s of studies!!
@PhysiKarlz
@PhysiKarlz 4 жыл бұрын
@@ManuelCastro-ns5sd He's Australian, not English. And I've encountered that tone of voice from Australians who almost always think too highly of themselves. I lived in Australia 30 years and visit the UK often. I don't hear this time of voice from anyone but snobs.
@PhysiKarlz
@PhysiKarlz 4 жыл бұрын
@@ManuelCastro-ns5sd All g brah
@sabin97
@sabin97 4 жыл бұрын
@@ManuelCastro-ns5sd they are all anglos. the anglos of canada, usa and australia are anglos at the end of the day.
@iamthegodyouseekiamthegody3387
@iamthegodyouseekiamthegody3387 4 жыл бұрын
The arrogance of ignorance. Faith pretending to know what is unknowable ad being smug about it.
@russellh9894
@russellh9894 3 жыл бұрын
46:30 is when his reasoning gets really annoying. "God the son became god our brother blah blah blah". Sure it's poetic but that doesnt make it evidence.
@The02wooley
@The02wooley 3 жыл бұрын
Over 55,000 artifacts and documents says so and provide a reasonable explanation not to mention the eye witness accounts
@iamreflective9624
@iamreflective9624 3 жыл бұрын
It seems that atheist would better appreciate that "nothing" created "something", yet they will carry out a poetic explanation of how "the issue is more complex". Give me a break.
@russellh9894
@russellh9894 3 жыл бұрын
@@The02wooley There are claims of eye-witnesses but no one to talk to now. I dont know about the artifacts thing but there could be a million and that wouldnt prove a god. Documents saying something is not evidence that what they say is true. Got anything concrete?
@russellh9894
@russellh9894 3 жыл бұрын
@@iamreflective9624 I'm not sure what you are getting at. "Would better appreciate" ? What does that mean? And if asked about how/why there is something rather than nothing, I'd say I dont know. That's me being poetic? As far as something coming from nothing, excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't your god fall into that category?
@Ichabod_Jericho
@Ichabod_Jericho 3 жыл бұрын
@@russellh9894 here’s another prime example of Christians ignoring concrete objections to their faith
@charliebravonova5075
@charliebravonova5075 3 жыл бұрын
I feel like every time I watch an Unbelievable video to learn about something I enjoy, the two guest go down a rabbit hole of debate that I now want to learn even more about. Which was precisely what happened when Matt and Glen began speaking about the reasoning/rationale behind sacrifice in the Old Testament and the necessity for Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.
@whittfamily1
@whittfamily1 Жыл бұрын
The crucifixion of Jesus is actually another piece of evidence pointing to the fact that God does not exist!
@charliebravonova5075
@charliebravonova5075 Жыл бұрын
@@whittfamily1 Explain
@whittfamily1
@whittfamily1 Жыл бұрын
@@charliebravonova5075 Yes, I will try to explain. If you don't understand or don't agree, please let me know. 1. Definition: God is 1) the hypothetical supernatural, unique, independent, eternal, invulnerable, everywhere-present but usually invisible, all-knowing, perfectly rational, all-powerful, perfectly moral person or intelligent agent who created the cosmos, sometimes intervenes in our world, and assigns human persons to different desirable or undesirable conditions after they die. or 2) the greatest imaginable possible person (the “GIPPer”) who, if he existed, would surely be worthy of our greatest respect, admiration, and worship. 2. If God did exist, he would not have arranged the crucifixion of Jesus, but would have prevented it, and it would have never occurred. 3. But the crucifixion of Jesus did occur. 4. Therefore, God does not exist.
@danielsmithiv1279
@danielsmithiv1279 Жыл бұрын
@@whittfamily1 So God does not exist because of Jesus Christ? Is that your evidence?
@whittfamily1
@whittfamily1 Жыл бұрын
@@danielsmithiv1279 No, of course not! I believe that Jesus was a real man -- a traveling minister of the first century who probably was crucified. There are many correct arguments that God does not exist which have nothing to do with Jesus.
@cnault3244
@cnault3244 4 жыл бұрын
"Morality: Can atheism deliver a better world?" The question doesn't really make sense. All atheism is a non-belief that any god exists. It makes no claims about morality. It makes as much sense to ask "Morality: Can non-belief in Odin ( or non-belief in leprechauns) deliver a better world?
@woolvey
@woolvey 4 жыл бұрын
While I understand your point, atheism does rule out the possibility of a moral system based on divine authority and most theists claim such a system of morality. I assume the title was selected as much for keyword purposes as accuracy.
@shawncudjoe21
@shawncudjoe21 4 жыл бұрын
@@woolvey Atheism has nothing to do with morality.
@woolvey
@woolvey 4 жыл бұрын
@@shawncudjoe21 I didn't say it did! I said atheism rules out the possibility of morality based on god. You can't simultaneously believe in morality derived from god and not believe in god.
@shawncudjoe21
@shawncudjoe21 4 жыл бұрын
@@woolvey No it does not. Even if there were a god or gods, morality would be a seperate issue.
@cnault3244
@cnault3244 4 жыл бұрын
@@woolvey "atheism does rule out the possibility of a moral system based on divine authority " Atheism has nothing to do with morality in the same way that chemistry and astronomy have nothing to do with morality. "most theists claim such a system of morality" They can claim whatever they want, but there is no reason to believe that claim.
@RedBarkedTree
@RedBarkedTree 4 жыл бұрын
Great discussion. Dillahunty knows his stuff.
@wtfjesus8251
@wtfjesus8251 4 жыл бұрын
Yep!🤘
@MrKhushrenada
@MrKhushrenada 4 жыл бұрын
He was gonna become a pastor and read multiple versions of the bible multiple times and knows it better than approximately 100% of the people that he debates with (atleast 100% of the debates i heard).
@Diviance
@Diviance 4 жыл бұрын
@Jarvis Gandy In English alone, dozens of different versions. And yes, I would consider different translations to be different versions. Because they generally are quite different overall.
@TonkTheStonk
@TonkTheStonk 4 жыл бұрын
@Jarvis Gandy He doesn't know & he wasn't suggesting that;-)
@brando3342
@brando3342 4 жыл бұрын
@Brother Sanguinary Matt definitely does not understand the Bible at all. I'm not sure who told you that, but if you did read it and try to understand it, you would catch MANY mistakes and misinterpretations Matt presents.
@themostscurviestscurvey508
@themostscurviestscurvey508 3 жыл бұрын
The thing Glen needs to share is how in the world he knows there is an objective morality and what it is. How the hell are we letting him just assert that without explaining?
@petepayette6690
@petepayette6690 2 жыл бұрын
Ever heard of the 10 commandments
@lnsflare1
@lnsflare1 2 жыл бұрын
@@petepayette6690 You mean the one Arthur not cooking a baby goat in its mother's milk, or the past where the Christian God went into great detail on how to buy and sell people, including how to extort a Jewish temporary slave into becoming a shave for life by holding their slave wife and children hostage? What period do you have that this story is even true, much less moral, and even more much less objective?
@petepayette6690
@petepayette6690 2 жыл бұрын
God drown the entire Egyptian army in the red sea. Moral of these accounts: God will destroy his enemies...
@whittfamily1
@whittfamily1 Жыл бұрын
Suppose a god exists and presents a moral code. Also, suppose a panel of nine human moral experts presents a moral code. The codes are in writing and they are identical. Which code is objective? And why do you think so?
@themostscurviestscurvey508
@themostscurviestscurvey508 Жыл бұрын
@@whittfamily1 can you please reiterate this reply? I don't really understand it.
@pinball1970
@pinball1970 3 жыл бұрын
Justin Brierly, an intelligent, impartial moderator of the highest level. Fantastic. I'm an atheist and he is a Christian but I recognize a smart dude and a decent human being when I see one. More theists like him please.
@rowdy3837
@rowdy3837 2 жыл бұрын
I agree, though he does tend to take up the apologist perspective and pursue it more often and with considerably more vigor than he does the opposition. He is a Christian so I understand this tendency to do so but, the result is the non-apologist ends up facing two opponents rather than one…
@pinball1970
@pinball1970 2 жыл бұрын
@@rowdy3837 Weakly I think, it's as neutral as you can as an apologist and a moderator. He is a Christian but he sure likes Bart Ehrman, if he is not careful he could move over to the dark side!
@joerdim
@joerdim Жыл бұрын
No, less theists please.
@pinball1970
@pinball1970 Жыл бұрын
@@joerdim They are not all bad.
@joerdim
@joerdim Жыл бұрын
@@pinball1970 I mean that theism needs to be abolished which would result in lesser (or no) theists in the world. The less people who believe in nonsense the better. So less theists please.
@skepticalbutopen4620
@skepticalbutopen4620 4 жыл бұрын
Matt clearly was stronger in the discussion. I felt like he was a school teacher with a student.
@orthodox9191
@orthodox9191 4 жыл бұрын
It is easier to appear stronger when you are defending nothing. I think Glen won this one. Although I also think that this may have been Matt's first defeat (with the exception being his conversation with Jordan Peterson which was a draw.)
@gabrielmartinez717
@gabrielmartinez717 4 жыл бұрын
@@orthodox9191 in what respect do you think Matt lost??
@orthodox9191
@orthodox9191 4 жыл бұрын
@@gabrielmartinez717 Glen provided evidence that religion has a net benefit to society while Matt admitted that we must wait and see what secularism will produce. Also, every time Glen tried to show that secularism has failed in the past, Matt's response was to say that that was just religion masking as secularism. I think Matt's problem is that he cannot accept that any attempt at secularism will always morph into some kind of a religion. Atheism is just a flawed way of thinking. Quite frankly, I would call atheism a mental disorder.
@gabrielmartinez717
@gabrielmartinez717 4 жыл бұрын
@@orthodox9191 Jesus lol what an "un-christian" way to end that. Hope everything is okay. Like Matt had pointed out, Atheism is just the state of not being convinced a God exists. Similar to Santa, there is no evidence. So to continue to believe would be, by definition, delusional. Also there's never been a secular humanist society so there's nothing to compare. Well what if everyone believed in Santa and that made the world a better place? It honestly might lol but that wouldn't make it true.
@madshorn5826
@madshorn5826 4 жыл бұрын
@@orthodox9191 Won?? Arguing that "atheism will bring down the Down population" when the deselection is happening in a world where most people claim to believe is ... unqualified. Trouble with religious types is that they define anyone on their side stepping out of line as a consequence of non-religious types doing stuff. It is a genius con: "Humans are frail so we can't allow dissent. You all have to behave as we would like you to for the greater good. The reward will be HUGE - and no one have ever complained. Questioning this is dissent and therefore harmful."
@MrLipiko
@MrLipiko 4 жыл бұрын
Honestly at the beginning this seemed like a nice, level-headed debate about morality... but as soon as Glen lost his footing with deeper argumentation and problems he just started preaching, asserting the bible's truth based on faith.
@johntrains1317
@johntrains1317 4 жыл бұрын
Par for the course I'd say. It seems all these apologists hitch there belief on god being their moral absolute and whem theu can't even show it exists it falls aparts
@asian432
@asian432 4 жыл бұрын
Most people that Matt has had debates are dishonestly not debating about the reasons why we believe a god. The majority of them will end up proselytizing than discussing the logic and rationality of god’s existence. The man knows the right intentions when asking precise questions.
@gavinhurlimann2910
@gavinhurlimann2910 4 жыл бұрын
@@asian432: I've now seen 4 debates where Dillahunty has had his ass handed to him on a plate. Michael Jones (twice), Dr Braxton Hunter & Glen Scrivener. Interestly, these guys are a lot younger than MD, so if Dillahunty is the cream of the atheist debaters, it's little wonder atheism is shrinking. Pew Research Centre data.
@asian432
@asian432 4 жыл бұрын
@@gavinhurlimann2910 if you're a Christian, of course you will lean in to your org. If Matt lost his debates, He would have been back as a Christian by now. Most of his debates against apologists, they never give good answers. They haven't convinced the man. Either his opponents are bad debaters or good liars. BTW - what's the purpose of inserting pew research center data? Does it mean something?
@gavinhurlimann2910
@gavinhurlimann2910 4 жыл бұрын
@@asian432: MD has lost 4 of his last debates, Michael Jones (twice), Dr Braxton Hunter & now Glen Scrivener. Interestly, these guys are a lot younger than Dillahunty. The reference to the Pew Research Centre data shows atheism decreasing to 13% of the global population over the coming decades.
@danbailey2964
@danbailey2964 Жыл бұрын
Matt-"God likes bbq and self sacrifice." Glenn-"It's magic."
@Vaggelis983
@Vaggelis983 3 жыл бұрын
Since I watch Matt's debates regularly I knew this was gonna be gold but damn, he knocked that Christian boy out of the park! Brutally logical arguements.
@Againstfascist
@Againstfascist 3 жыл бұрын
You spelled arguments wrong.
@bstlybengali
@bstlybengali 3 жыл бұрын
Not necessarily. Matt faced a huge problem as well. Matt has to concede that atheism has zero basis for morality and therefore it is mailable not through argument but through bias. I.e Hitlers ideas Are perfectly acceptable via atheism. The idea that harming innocent people is good can be found to be reasonable all under the umbrella of random blind processes making atoms come together only to fall apart.
@Againstfascist
@Againstfascist 3 жыл бұрын
Matt thinks we can't know anything. So how does he know that we can't know anything?
@wordforever117
@wordforever117 3 жыл бұрын
I think this is confirmation bias for you sadly
@MarkoMood
@MarkoMood 3 жыл бұрын
@@bstlybengali No. Just like harming others is a blind process, so is the unacceptance of that act. The fact that poop came about by an uncontrolled blind process doesn't change that my dislike of the smell of it is also a random blind process. This fact doesn't suddenly make me accept the smell of poop and think it smells good. Same with murder and anything else. We still continue to be unnaccepting of certain behavior and accepting of other behavior. It's nothing more than a matter of taste. A god adds nothing to this conversation. It would just be another opinion.
@UnRe4lSkat3r
@UnRe4lSkat3r 4 жыл бұрын
shows how arrogant and closed-minded Glen is by the fact that at the end of the show despite Matt giving accurate representation of Atheism, Glen completely describes it wrong like it just went in one ear and out the other. Every time i hear "MHM" I think he wasnt actually listening and just was waiting for his chance to talk.....Such a tool.
@UnRe4lSkat3r
@UnRe4lSkat3r 4 жыл бұрын
Meson atheism is just lack of belief in a god. Whether or not someone is positive is up to them. There is no agenda or worldview attached. There are positive and negative atheists, as there are are in religion also.
@UnRe4lSkat3r
@UnRe4lSkat3r 4 жыл бұрын
Meson scientific method is not a worldview...it’s a method...literally in the name. And idc about atheists that make those claims, cause they are wrong. Just cause I’m an atheist doesn’t mean I agree with what all atheists say. I only hold the scientific method in such high regards, because it has provided the most advancement in understanding our universe and providing aspects to further improve on our existence. Without the scientific method, the human lifespan would be a lot shorter.
@UnRe4lSkat3r
@UnRe4lSkat3r 4 жыл бұрын
@@Meson10 science doesnt dismiss anecdotal evidence, it just doesnt hold it to a very high regard. If we relied so highly on eyewitness testimony then many innocent people would be convicted of crimes they havent actually commited. Science enhances our senses beyond those that we have by way of microscopes, telescopes, energy wave receptors, etc. Only relying on our human senses can only get us so far. I dont trust alot of things most people say, particularly my own government, because i am extremely skeptical all around and only come to my conclusions after extensive research. I would hope you apply the same amount of skepticism as most should.
@UnRe4lSkat3r
@UnRe4lSkat3r 4 жыл бұрын
@@Meson10 that is not being skeptical. You should not believe anything until evidence proves it. Seeing a supposed "possessed" person, your baseline should not be to believe it, but rather not believe it until proven. I'm deeply appalled by this example. Are you not aware cases like supposed "possession" has happened to people before that have had mental illnesses and their family refused medical treatment because of the belief they were possessed and that person ended up DYING for not getting proper medical care. This is simply a gross mindset you have and I deeply hope you do not look after any mentally ill people.
@UnRe4lSkat3r
@UnRe4lSkat3r 4 жыл бұрын
@@Meson10 you have to prove the supernatural exists to use it as evidence. I dont only use the scientific method. I use anecdotal too, just not to a high standard as i already stated. If a detective convicts without sufficient evidence, then sounds like ur detective in this scenario is sht and needs to be fired. In what way is the scientific method flawed? You do know the scientific method does not claim absolutes, only the best possible explanation and if there is a better one, the theory can be shot down or improved on. We dont only have 5 senses btw, we have more subtle ones like the sense of space and balance. I've already told you science helps to enhance our senses, so we dont only rely on those senses. There is a difference between someone witnessing something through their eyes and someone witnessing something through a video camera. A video camera can record and keep log of data for everyone to see, you eyes record and keep data for only you to see.
@dementare
@dementare 4 жыл бұрын
Someone, needs to teach Glen Scrivener the definition of the word: "Unique". He many, MANY, *MANY* times claims "Christianity has this unique quality"______" "....... when in fact such aspects, qualities, concepts are found *ALL* over the world, throughout history, and even in the animal kingdom.
@JMUDoc
@JMUDoc 4 жыл бұрын
Especially given that Chrisitanity incorporated so many pagan elements into itself...
@MrCanis4
@MrCanis4 4 жыл бұрын
There book is based on what they knew at that time, some 2000 years ago. But than again they knew less than 5% off the world and its population.
@MrSiloterio
@MrSiloterio 4 жыл бұрын
like what?
@ocrancienthistory3326
@ocrancienthistory3326 4 жыл бұрын
Go listen to Tom Holland.
@paulelkin3531
@paulelkin3531 4 жыл бұрын
@@MrSiloterio 41:12 has a good example, where "its found in judaism but its a uniquely Christian idea."
@robertlasiter9856
@robertlasiter9856 3 жыл бұрын
this is what a civil conversation between opposing belief systems(or lack of) looks like. There needs to be more of this.
@patriley1026
@patriley1026 2 жыл бұрын
Matt was so kind in this interview. He tends to treat people the way they treat him. The " Matt" principle.
@jessehollenbeck4607
@jessehollenbeck4607 Жыл бұрын
It seems to be the reverse of the "Golden Rule".
@YeshuaIsLord135
@YeshuaIsLord135 Жыл бұрын
I don’t know but what I do know is that I don’t know and you don’t know but I also don’t know what you don’t know the famous Matt “i don’t know” dillahunty
@javieradorno2503
@javieradorno2503 Жыл бұрын
@@YeshuaIsLord135 “All I know is that I know nothing.” -Socrates
@secularargument
@secularargument 4 жыл бұрын
I didn’t notice any difference between glen and the average christian caller on AXP.
@0x8b
@0x8b 4 жыл бұрын
same
@teardrop-in-a-fishbowl
@teardrop-in-a-fishbowl 4 жыл бұрын
He seems to be smart but I think he gave up his intelligence for a believe system. We do not know why, but I think he´s very delusional about Christianity.
@derkaiser1306
@derkaiser1306 4 жыл бұрын
theres never a difference. the smartest, most well versed professor of theology will use the same arguments that a regular joe theist uses...
@phant0mwolf421
@phant0mwolf421 4 жыл бұрын
@@teardrop-in-a-fishbowl You can really see it when Matt starts to ask the hard questions, and Glen tries to answer with pretty, but meaningless platitudes.
@psychicandice
@psychicandice 4 жыл бұрын
Regardless of your degree or title, bad arguments are still, at the end of the day, bad arguments. That’s not to say the argument for a God isn’t out there somewhere but when William Lane Craig is the epitome of Christian apologists and one people like to cite as the absolute authority on everything then it’s just bad arguments from these well known apologists.
@ingridalmeida2828
@ingridalmeida2828 4 жыл бұрын
Matt won!
@dazedmaestro1223
@dazedmaestro1223 4 жыл бұрын
@Paul Morgan, you're an absolute dumbass.
@dazedmaestro1223
@dazedmaestro1223 4 жыл бұрын
@Pisstake, nah, you are.
@alfredogonzalez8735
@alfredogonzalez8735 4 жыл бұрын
@@dazedmaestro1223 nah you are lmao this is how good your argument is
@plasmaballin
@plasmaballin 4 жыл бұрын
Matt made better points, but he didn't "win" because it was a conversation, not a competition. We are more likely to win over other people if we stop treating discussions as a competition.
@ReaLMoisan
@ReaLMoisan 3 жыл бұрын
For the debate about 1:10:07 Christianity being responsible for the Allies joining the war against Germany in WWII. I am surprised Matt didn't mention Italy, the literal home of the Roman Catholic Church. Despite what ever Fascist regime was in power at the time in Italy, no one can say Italy didn't have a lot of Christians within their boarders. Yet, despite all those Christians, they marched with the Axis during WWII. Also, the USSR who spent the couple decades preceding WWII doing what could easily be described as genocide against the Orthodox Christian religion, is the country most responsible for defeating the Axis powers during WWII. Which means the USSR supported the Allies, after just losing 12-20 million Christians right before WWII started. So maybe, saying Christians were responsible for the Allies winning the war is a little disingenuous.
@emilianosintarias7337
@emilianosintarias7337 2 жыл бұрын
It was christian anti-semitism that gave us the holocaust, and you're totally right that the church was on the side of the fascists. Who beat the fascists and sacrificed the strong for the weak? Atheist USSR
@patientfirbolg3299
@patientfirbolg3299 Жыл бұрын
Also, Nazi soldier had "Gott mit uns" written on their belt buckles. Many, Nazi's saw themselves as Christians, seems God was playing both sides in this conflict.
@zorrobatman1
@zorrobatman1 Жыл бұрын
​@@patientfirbolg3299Nazi's god wasn't exactly the classical view of God
@patientfirbolg3299
@patientfirbolg3299 Жыл бұрын
​@@zorrobatman1 The views of many Christians in Nazi Germany wouldn't be too dissimilar from modern interpretations. Having many of the major theological beliefs many Christians have today. Hitler, on the other hand, did seem to loath Christianity (though he would pretend to be a Christian for politics). However, it was pretty easy for him to take the antisemitism fostered by Christian leaders over the past centuries and turn it into something even darker.
@Liverpoolfc9karim
@Liverpoolfc9karim Жыл бұрын
Also Hitlers first ever treaty as the official head of the Nazi party was with the Catholic party of Germany, to dissolve the party and effectively made Nazis the only party in Germany unopposed. And Hitlers birthdays were celebrated from the pulpits of Catholic Churches across Germany, never forget that!!!!
@00dfm00
@00dfm00 Жыл бұрын
Glenn going up against Matt in religious debate is like a 5 year old going up against Michael Jordan in basketball, respectively.
@discoveringancienthistoryw5246
@discoveringancienthistoryw5246 4 жыл бұрын
Why does there need to be a blood sacrifice? Why not a vegetable sacrifice? Why not a origami sacrifice? It's all hocus pocus no matter how you parse it out.
@douglaspearce9129
@douglaspearce9129 4 жыл бұрын
@Trillions And ... ?
@discoveringancienthistoryw5246
@discoveringancienthistoryw5246 4 жыл бұрын
@Déjà Siku - now that's funny.
@zenithquasar9623
@zenithquasar9623 4 жыл бұрын
It is not the same if there is no burning blood and flesh to generate pleasant smell for the psycho God!
@discoveringancienthistoryw5246
@discoveringancienthistoryw5246 4 жыл бұрын
@@zenithquasar9623 -true, but in the big book of Jewish fables it was Cain who made a sacrifice of 'fruits of the soil' ... so I guess Yahweh isn't into fruit salad!
@zenithquasar9623
@zenithquasar9623 4 жыл бұрын
@@discoveringancienthistoryw5246 Yeah, he is strictly paleo...
@martinlag1
@martinlag1 4 жыл бұрын
As an Australian, I found Glen excruciating and painful, and a bit disingenuous.
@jacoblee5796
@jacoblee5796 4 жыл бұрын
Well he is a religious apologists so.....
@crazyprayingmantis5596
@crazyprayingmantis5596 4 жыл бұрын
Fellow Aussie here thinks the same, sorry world for Glen and Ken Ham.
@bpdrumstudio
@bpdrumstudio 4 жыл бұрын
As a human being I felt Glen was painful lol
@giorgialeksandria6665
@giorgialeksandria6665 3 жыл бұрын
thank you so much for this great conversation :)
@beth-rg8bm
@beth-rg8bm 3 жыл бұрын
Your looking much healthier Matt! It's great to see you looking so much happier! Keep up the good works!
@fcchannel6162
@fcchannel6162 2 жыл бұрын
something i don't get is atheist say morality is subjective and wrong and right is just a matter of opinion so isn't belief in god a matter of opinion if that's true then atheism is just a matter of opinion?
@rondoclark45
@rondoclark45 4 жыл бұрын
Matt had this guy choking on his own logic several times. He's also confused about where he gets his "Christian" values. Christianity had 1400 years to ban slavery, didn't happen until the Enlightenment. Christianity didn't embrace human rights for 1400 years, until the Enlightenment. Christianity didn't embrace scientific thinking for 1400 years, didn't happen until the Enlightenment. The spark of the Enlightenment was pagan Graeco-Roman philosophy and science. But, of course, he's so deluded in his beliefs that everything good thing originates in Christianity and every bad thing originates from without.
@breambo3835
@breambo3835 4 жыл бұрын
ron clark From within your worldview, what makes slavery objectively wrong, and what makes humans rights good. From within your worldview how do you account for logic and the uniformity of nature to be able to do science.
@rondoclark45
@rondoclark45 4 жыл бұрын
@@breambo3835 He's claiming Christianity is credited with those things. Yet, Christianity was stagnant on those issues for 1400 years. If your objective morality comes from a deity then that would not be the case.
@breambo3835
@breambo3835 4 жыл бұрын
ron clark How do you define good and bad from within your worldview?
@rondoclark45
@rondoclark45 4 жыл бұрын
@@breambo3835 The point. Your head.
@breambo3835
@breambo3835 4 жыл бұрын
ron clark So if it's just your opinion, then what reasons do you or anyone else have to believe you.
@matcomb7501
@matcomb7501 4 жыл бұрын
Glen, u never told us how u know the bible is true.
@chaddon7685
@chaddon7685 4 жыл бұрын
He feels it in his feelz.
@chaddon7685
@chaddon7685 4 жыл бұрын
@Gabe Norman Oh that's easy to refute. There is no real evidence there but Christians ignore it.
@adomaster123
@adomaster123 4 жыл бұрын
Gabe Norman the Bible can’t be trusted as a historical document. First of all, the whole thing is a secondary source, written centuries after the events supposedly transpired. Secondly, there are no primary sources from the period it describes that verify it. Thirdly, many of its claims, are either literally physically impossible (resurrection and transmutation) or don’t match what we know about history from other sources (Noah’s Ark). You literally have to believe magic is real to believe the WHOLE Bible. Reputable bible scholars mostly believe a lot of it is metaphorical.
@adomaster123
@adomaster123 4 жыл бұрын
Gabe Norman It literally talks about magic. That’s enough to toss it out the window right there, because, newsflash, magic isn’t real. You can’t curse people or turn snakes into staffs like the pharoah’s men do. Also the Hebrews were never enslaved in Egypt.
@chaddon7685
@chaddon7685 4 жыл бұрын
@Gabe Norman Like an Exodus that never happened or a global flood that the world never experienced?
@xavierrandall
@xavierrandall 3 жыл бұрын
Matt is a BEAST!!!
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns
@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns 2 ай бұрын
"Thousands of studies" Please don't exaggerate. Dozens. Maybe hundreds.
@freddycuevas5743
@freddycuevas5743 4 жыл бұрын
Min: 50:00 Matt: god came down in human form to sacrifice himself to himself and.. Glen: God the son* Matt: sry arent you a trinitarian? Glen: yes Matt: then he sacrificed himself to himself, didn't he? Glen: is a different person. cognitive dissonance in a nutshell. Min: 50:00
@CommieApe
@CommieApe 4 жыл бұрын
He starts to writhe and squirm at this point. Its embarassing to watch honestly.
@LeoRegum
@LeoRegum 4 жыл бұрын
Sure, his articulation of trinitarian theology under pressure isn't great, but I wouldn't say it's cognitive dissonance, it is only his lack of clarity on definitions.
@chupie3085
@chupie3085 4 жыл бұрын
Trinitarians believe there are three distinct persons in the Godhead. In their mind the father the son and the spirit are three distinctly different persons. Matt was describing from a monotheistic perspective and Glen was correcting him which caused the confusion.
@julianmartinez8954
@julianmartinez8954 4 жыл бұрын
The moderator let’s Glen off the hook too, by steering the conversation away from the theology.
@chupie3085
@chupie3085 4 жыл бұрын
@@julianmartinez8954 and? That is his job unless you wanted the conversation to turn into a theological conversation about trinitarianism vs monotheism.
@dementare
@dementare 4 жыл бұрын
When He claimed the *NO ONE ELSE, BUT CHRISTIANS, AND CHRISTIANS ALONE* overturned slavery.... he lost the last bit of a chance i was willing to give him. 59:10
@VACatholic
@VACatholic 4 жыл бұрын
Do you have an argument or are you just mad he pointed it out?
@sobakakustovsky3909
@sobakakustovsky3909 4 жыл бұрын
@@VACatholicThe Bible on salvery: Exodus 21 20“When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money. In addition, from the early decades of the 19th century, many Baptist preachers in the South argued in favor of preserving the right of ministers to be slaveholders , a class that included prominent Baptist Southerners and planters. Antworten
@PhilipLeitch
@PhilipLeitch 4 жыл бұрын
@@VACatholic it was humanism the ended slavery. Many non-Christian societies, such as Islam, don't have a history of slavery. Christianity and Jewdiasm have a sad history of slavery which is validated by their religious books what instruct how to keep slaves. More moral (by secular humanist morality) cultures simply don't engage in slavery at any level.
@VACatholic
@VACatholic 4 жыл бұрын
@@PhilipLeitch "Many non-Christian societies, such as Islam, don't have a history of slavery." HAHAHAHA You didn't just say that? Mohammad had slaves. And in the Koran black people are considered no better than slaves. There is still slavery int he middle east today, see the open air slave markets in Libya for example. ISIS has sex slaves. You're so far off in crazy land you don't even know where reality is. "Christianity and Jewdiasm have a sad history of slavery which is validated by their religious books what instruct how to keep slaves." Yes, and that's why the prodigal son returned to his father, because even his slaves were treated well. Something the sex slaves of ISIS don't agree on, genius. "More moral (by secular humanist morality) cultures simply don't engage in slavery at any level." Like where? Where? Show me where? The amount of sex slavery going on today is higher than at any point in history. You're a fool or a child. Either way, bad look for you. Pathetic take. Feel bad about this. Very bad. Then come and learn something and start spreading the truth and the light.
@VodShod
@VodShod 4 жыл бұрын
@@VACatholic Are there any secular humanist societies that have slavery? It is also funny how disrespecting god is punishable by death or life in prison in some of the christian countries.
@ericnix3024
@ericnix3024 Жыл бұрын
Glen contradicts himself. He chastised Matt for referring to God as if he were a part of creation instead of the creator but he believes God became flesh and out brother and shed blood.
@ericnix3024
@ericnix3024 Жыл бұрын
At 1:15:09
@jaredmcghee890
@jaredmcghee890 3 жыл бұрын
@1:10:48 "We relied on 1939 years of Christian understanding..." -We entered the war before we knew about the concentration camps and we didn't enter for a single Christian reason.
@incognito3990
@incognito3990 2 жыл бұрын
Because the morality that we accept for granted came from Christianity, and we appropriated Christian values for ourselves.
@sananton2821
@sananton2821 5 ай бұрын
And the Nazis didn't? The Soviets didn't? The Italians didn't? The Spanish didn't? The Croatians didn't? They didn't have 1939 years of Christianity?@@incognito3990
@ladyaj7784
@ladyaj7784 4 жыл бұрын
Glen really needs to stop making assertions that he can't back up as the source of the conversation. It's meaningless.
@GabrielGarcia-qz7je
@GabrielGarcia-qz7je 4 жыл бұрын
Isn't the atheist fundamental assertion that "religion is bad" and I don't want pow pow from "sky daddy" in itself false and meaningless?
@88marome
@88marome 4 жыл бұрын
@@GabrielGarcia-qz7je Atheism does not have any assertions, and how can opinions be false? Can you read minds?
@euno17
@euno17 4 жыл бұрын
@@GabrielGarcia-qz7je Atheism has one foundation. In that we do not believe God exists, based upon a lack of evidence. There is no other position. Now people who believe in Atheism hold different values/ideas BEYOND it. It'd be like saying Christians assert that Football is 'bad'. It doesn't make any sense because that's not what Christian are asserting. Now again some Christians MAY believe football is bad but it is holly beyond the idea of them being Christian.
@GabrielGarcia-qz7je
@GabrielGarcia-qz7je 4 жыл бұрын
@@euno17 oh please, you believe what you believe regardless of facts, if facts would sway you then you would drop the charade knowing that atheism has lead to the most genocide, murders, and overall human suffering throughout time. Why must societies be forced into atheism whereas in a Christian society there is freedom of religion 🤔
@euno17
@euno17 4 жыл бұрын
@@GabrielGarcia-qz7je 1.) religious belief in God is devoid of facts which is why its based on faith. Yet apparently I'm the one 'who believes what i believe' regardless of facts? Uhh no, that would be you, the believer in religion based solely on faith. Believing anything on faith is ill-rational. 2.) The charade is your logical fallacies. Good job presenting no evidence of this claim of yours btw. Wow, saying that atheism leading to the 'most genocide'. Also, its ironic that you mentioned genocides because the Bible refers to several genocides. The battle of Jericho for example where everything was destroyed. Every living thing in it-men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys. 3.) Where in the hell did you get the idea of societies must be 'FORCED' into atheism? And again the idea is not believing in God until reasonably justified to do so. Doing so by faith is not a reasonable justification. 4.) LOL christian society' and 'freedom of religion' is a contradiction of values. According to your religion, if you don't believe in Christianity, you burn in hell. Not to mention, its apart of your damn religion to try your damned hardest to convert people. Even in the U.K, where you say there is a 'christian society' . . . and 'freedom of religion' . . . lol i bet you didn't know there used to be a Blasphemy law, did you? or what that entailed?
@thedukeoftbc
@thedukeoftbc 4 жыл бұрын
41:00 is where he lost the last bit of his credibility. "the idea of including everyone is a uniquely Christian idea. It is on the first page of the Bible. So Judaism." He is literally debunking himself as he speaks.
@nono7105
@nono7105 4 жыл бұрын
Um, no, he isn't. Christianity includes Judaism. They are not entirely separate religions. They have the exact same God, who is the source of all morality.
@corydorastube
@corydorastube 4 жыл бұрын
@@nono7105 So does Islam. Dou you believe that Mohammed flew around on the back of a winged horse with the head of a woman too? If not why not? Jews do not agree that your Christ is their Messiah.
@nono7105
@nono7105 4 жыл бұрын
@@corydorastube Obviously I do not. I do not believe that the God of Islam is the same as the God of the Christians and the Jews. That is not the point though. If a Muslim were to believe it so and he made a claim about some aspect of Islam that could actually be traced back to Christianity it's not some "gotcha" moment. Because he believes that Islam is the inheritor of Christianity. You or I or any others might disagree with him on that point, but it is irrelevant to his position. He is being internally consistent. So in this case Glen is _not_ debunking himself. The Christian God is the same as the Jewish God. The first five books of the Christian Bible are the Torah. The difference between Judaism and Christianity is that the Christians believe the prophecy of the promised Messiah has been fulfilled, Jews do not. If you wish to critique Glen for failing to say "Judeo-Christian" instead of just Christian, then fine, you can say he wasn't precise in his terminology. But he didn't debunk himself.
@corydorastube
@corydorastube 4 жыл бұрын
@@nono7105 Then you are uneducated. Islam is an Abrahamic religion. Judaism, Islam and Christianity share the same God. So do the Druze, the Bahá'í and the Rastafari. Why are you lot always so ignorant on the theology of the religion you profess to follow?
@soren9833
@soren9833 4 жыл бұрын
@@corydorastube The theology is not the same. For example, Muslims believe Jesus is the messiah, but do not think he was crucified, or that he is the Son of God, which is central to Christian theology. Judaism and Christianity have more in common with their theologies than that of Islam in that Christians can take insight from the old testament. Islam does not and in fact deviates from it; Ishmael is considered the chosen one rather than Isaac. Jesus at the end of the day believed he was fulfilling the Jewish religion, he was actually a practicing Jew. So, no, you are factually mistaken on several points.
@benwatson5787
@benwatson5787 3 жыл бұрын
The best method we have found is to tell a story... that story doesn't have to be true. You can use a parable from a work of fiction that can hit home and help change someone's mind.
@whittfamily1
@whittfamily1 Жыл бұрын
Or not. We can do better by telling true stories than fictional ones.
@grolstum211
@grolstum211 Жыл бұрын
One fable of aesop ( choose one with the animals of your preference) has ten times the moral value of the whole old testament. I hope you do not raise your children by reading them the revelation with the whore of babylon or how Lot had incest sex with his daughters..... Stories are great and they exist ages before the abrahamic god of israel. Myths, fables, epic and lyric poetry all have far superior moral value. Just the myth of Ikarus or of Narcissus or Pygmalion are like philosophical dissertation compared to the barbaric and hateful holy scriptures of abrahamic religions.
@RobertLesac
@RobertLesac 7 ай бұрын
​@@whittfamily1 we already have that, it's called history. We humans are storytellers at our core, but we got stuck when some of us proclaimed that some stories are the absolute truth.
@whittfamily1
@whittfamily1 7 ай бұрын
@@RobertLesac I agree. And also, some of us proclaim stories are true when they are false. The first verse of Genesis is a good example: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..." Not.
@treich1234
@treich1234 3 жыл бұрын
Bonobos have a cohesive society. What moral code did they need to adopt in order to produce their mutually beneficial order?
@Sydney_With_A_Why
@Sydney_With_A_Why 4 жыл бұрын
Great job, Matt, as always. Considering what you're up against, you always provide excellent rebuttal.
@VodShod
@VodShod 4 жыл бұрын
@Paul Morgan it was very obvious in the way he kept phrasing his questions, rewording Matt to straw-man his position.
@flipgsp
@flipgsp 4 жыл бұрын
@Paul Morgan Well Matt's show is usually 2 people against 1 caller so I don't think he can complain.
@fredriksundberg4624
@fredriksundberg4624 4 жыл бұрын
@Paul Morgan : So god selfdefeated himself in ww2, because most of the germans and italians were christians and also those on the allied side, or am i misunderstanding the religiosity in ww2?
@Sydney_With_A_Why
@Sydney_With_A_Why 4 жыл бұрын
@@flipgsp AXP is not a formal structured debate like this supposedly was. But that's alright, Matt is also an expert at handling stacked decks.
@brianwestley6985
@brianwestley6985 4 жыл бұрын
@@Sydney_With_A_Why "Matt is also an expert at handling stacked decks." He IS an amateur stage magician...
@micahchermak6386
@micahchermak6386 4 жыл бұрын
Loved watching Glen’s eyes cross trying to skip around the absurdity of the trinity 50:00
@usergiodmsilva1983PT
@usergiodmsilva1983PT 4 жыл бұрын
Though the same, always cracks me up 😂
@ThePalePrince
@ThePalePrince 4 жыл бұрын
Time stamp?
@micahchermak6386
@micahchermak6386 4 жыл бұрын
Tyr Of The Great Old Ones 50:00
@qruzado
@qruzado 4 жыл бұрын
I think Matt should've torture him a bit with that!
@Endless7764
@Endless7764 4 жыл бұрын
It was around this time when i lost hope in Glenn being an honest debate opponent. The first 30ish minutes he was ok but when he really wasn't able to defend himself he let his true character show.
@PetersPianoShoppe
@PetersPianoShoppe 3 жыл бұрын
The audio in this discussion needed a HPF. Every time either one of them taps the table with emphasis, my subwoofer shakes the room.
@quantize
@quantize 3 жыл бұрын
Just noticed this on my headphones and kept taking them off thinking someone was shifting heavy furniture
@DavidJones-zg4od
@DavidJones-zg4od 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Matt for being the adult in the room, once again.
@jasondaniels640
@jasondaniels640 3 жыл бұрын
In Glen's defense, it's impossible to defend questions and concepts of religion including the trinity.. Especially against Matt.. But Matt is always great!
@NEMOfishZ92
@NEMOfishZ92 3 жыл бұрын
"Atheism leads to burning at the stake and witch hunts" King James Version (KJV) of Exod 22:18, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live, " I can't tell if Glenn is dishonest or stupid
@ramsaval
@ramsaval 3 жыл бұрын
But the stakes to your credit
@NEMOfishZ92
@NEMOfishZ92 3 жыл бұрын
@@jsob_fl1171 how can we read what we don't have ? Seriously we don't have an original
@NEMOfishZ92
@NEMOfishZ92 3 жыл бұрын
@@jsob_fl1171 The oldest extant copy of a complete Bible is an early 4th-century parchment book preserved in the Vatican Library, and it is known as the Codex Vaticanus. The oldest copy of the Tanakh in Hebrew and Aramaic dates from the 10th century CE. Still not the original we have no original
@NEMOfishZ92
@NEMOfishZ92 3 жыл бұрын
@@jsob_fl1171 I see non of them as trustworthy and did you not see my link? Basically all bible say the same thing about witches
@NEMOfishZ92
@NEMOfishZ92 3 жыл бұрын
@@jsob_fl1171 meh it's ok dude you came in with every intention to have an honest discussion and I don't see that often so I appreciate it
@dariusnoname12
@dariusnoname12 4 жыл бұрын
Can atheism deliver a better world? - no. Can secularism deliver a better world? - strong yes.
@reddseth9733
@reddseth9733 4 жыл бұрын
thanks for the tl;dr xD
@andrewfrank7222
@andrewfrank7222 4 жыл бұрын
Christians who fled others Christians in Europe find themselves in a nation where secularism is being tried for the first time will reliable tell you its the Christianity that created the mighty ole USA........
@catalyst3713
@catalyst3713 4 жыл бұрын
@@andrewfrank7222 Let's pretend that's true(it's not). So what? You do understand that secularist government benefits religion(s), right? So why would you be against it?
@andrewfrank7222
@andrewfrank7222 4 жыл бұрын
@@catalyst3713 Ahh, I wasn't refuting what he said... I was simply stating our current reality. Thomas Payne and Thomas Jefferson championed the secular state. They themselves were not even Christian but rather deists. Their legacy is at least the idea that the US should strive toward secularism... Of course they could only truly affect Virginia and the federal government... We know what others did with religion in other parts of the country... Even fighting a war to defend their godly right to own slaves... But yes, reality is, Christianity only indirectly influenced the US via its influence over policy and people in power.
@jillum89
@jillum89 4 жыл бұрын
"Can people who have brown hair provide good morals? No? So you _need_ to have another hair color to be moral?" -_-
@Domzdream
@Domzdream 3 жыл бұрын
Since Hitchens’ death, Matt Dillahunty has been my favourite speaker on atheism since then. He’s just so concise and to the point, doesn’t waffle (maybe sometimes hehe), but yea he’s just so damn well rounded in most high brow subjects.
@PositivelyDiverse
@PositivelyDiverse Жыл бұрын
I'm so glad I found a new video to watch Matt destroy
@lucybrown1929
@lucybrown1929 4 жыл бұрын
"...literally, there are thousands of studies that show the benefits of religion.. ". Citation needed.
@rembrandt972ify
@rembrandt972ify 4 жыл бұрын
He kept stating without citation that thousands of studies show that Christians who were the happiest with their church were so much better people than non-believers. Well sure, if you pick a complete bullshit criteria and disqualify all the frustrated unhappy people who want to kill somebody from a group that contains them, you can show that the happiest people in a group behave better.
@DavidJones-zg4od
@DavidJones-zg4od 4 жыл бұрын
In our current reality, and throughout our history, one can show all the the horrible atrocities that people have, and are still doing, because of their religious convictions.
@StuntpilootStef
@StuntpilootStef 4 жыл бұрын
@@DavidJones-zg4od I despise religion as much as you, but you're making the exact same mistake. It's not true that all atrocities are done because of religion.
@douglaspearce9129
@douglaspearce9129 4 жыл бұрын
As my father used to say: ''I've told you a million times, don't exaggerate!''
@StuntpilootStef
@StuntpilootStef 4 жыл бұрын
@@douglaspearce9129 Hyperbole will destroy the world!
@dunkyvslife7447
@dunkyvslife7447 4 жыл бұрын
Lol! This guy was trying SOOOO hard to turn this into an abortion debate and Matt wouldn't let him.😂
@daviddeida
@daviddeida 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah Matt dodged alot.
@therambler3713
@therambler3713 3 жыл бұрын
Matt knows his knowledge on abortion is really bad, but he felt the need to support it anyway because Christians are against it
@dunkyvslife7447
@dunkyvslife7447 3 жыл бұрын
@@therambler3713 Yeah...that's not how he works. He bases his opinions on facts whereas christians base theirs on bronze age fairy tales and emotions.
@therambler3713
@therambler3713 3 жыл бұрын
@@dunkyvslife7447 lol, ok buddy
@kentonbaird1723
@kentonbaird1723 3 жыл бұрын
He was trying to push a "gotcha". However, if glen had actually watched Matt's show, he'd know that he's handled those discussions quite easily.
@goeegoanna
@goeegoanna 3 жыл бұрын
As an Australian I will have to call out bullshit on these claims, absolute bullshit, especially considering the country is becoming far less religious. Where are these studies claiming we Australians are happier and more compassionate with religion? Recent history shows the opposite.
@groovy56
@groovy56 3 жыл бұрын
Since having an encounter through prayer, with the spiritual presence that fills the heart, mind & soul with deep and profound love, peace, and joy, you realize that trying to prove it scientifically to skeptics, is absurd. I would only encourage others to keep seeking, because it's totally worth it ;)
@Resenbrink
@Resenbrink 3 жыл бұрын
You do realise this feeling isn’t exclusive to just your religion right?
@braydynniewiadomski5454
@braydynniewiadomski5454 3 жыл бұрын
@Mike Seork None of my experiences with drugs came close to the peaceful, joyous, and purely loving presence of God. No need for drugs at all, and it is a more real and rooted feeling than any drug could ever give you. Only Jesus gives you eternal life, drugs do nothing to help you in life or in the next one.. Psalm 16:11 "Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore." John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
@zorglub667
@zorglub667 4 жыл бұрын
Too bad that Matt let him get away with the bogus (and untrue) "science and statistics prove religions make you more happy" claim. Otherwise, nice talk.
@setboy1
@setboy1 4 жыл бұрын
zorglub667 it’s a hard thing to fight when you both haven’t read the same papers so you can argue specifics
@tonybanks1035
@tonybanks1035 4 жыл бұрын
completelly true and matt already got wrecked on that very subject by Michael Jones. Try harder next time.
@jesusislord9758
@jesusislord9758 4 жыл бұрын
Being a born again Christian brings you peace and joy.
@moodyrick8503
@moodyrick8503 4 жыл бұрын
@@jesusislord9758 And being a Muslim or a Hindu or a Buddist can also bring you peace and joy! You have to understand, to an outsider they all look the same. Also, large portions of Christians telling each other that they are not "REAL" Christians.
@jesusislord9758
@jesusislord9758 4 жыл бұрын
moody rick how so?
@chaddon7685
@chaddon7685 4 жыл бұрын
Once the conversation got to sacrifice, Mr. Christian arguer showed his true self.
@deangailwahl8270
@deangailwahl8270 4 жыл бұрын
In which way and at what point on the video I want to check it out? Thanks
@bonnie43uk
@bonnie43uk 4 жыл бұрын
@@deangailwahl8270 Me too.
@ThePinsa42
@ThePinsa42 4 жыл бұрын
bonnie43uk when he responded to Matt’s blood magic comment. He struggles to appropriately respond , there was no real substance to what he was saying to describe the sacrifice . Curious since it’s the single most important event in human history and he wasn’t able to distill a clear answer down that made any sense - I agree this is exactly when he was exposed . As it should be because it simply isn’t true and is sort of like blood magic - Matt was right.
@charlesd4572
@charlesd4572 4 жыл бұрын
Yip he got a bit stuck there but after the Downs Syndrome point was raised I have to be honest Matt was all over the place. He descended into utilitarianism which is never a good place to find yourself when talking about human beings - he was under pressure so perhaps he didn't have time to think it through properly and in the end he got very defensive. But again he made the point that if someone doesn't believe in your suppositions then its not a persuasive argument (which is true). But then that sot of makes Glen's point: in a society governed by a Christian view of the world you won't arrive to the conclusion that human beings have no innate value. In the absence of that - and what Sam calls well being - you could. So I think this was two way traffic. A very good conversation.
@Iverath
@Iverath 4 жыл бұрын
@@charlesd4572 "in a society governed by a Christian view of the world you won't arrive to the conclusion that human beings have no innate value" This is true, humans even have a shekel-value according to the bible (where girls are worth less than boys). I don't know if that value is "innate" though. Because that's just a claim. You can attach *anything* to what it means to be made in the image of god, and the bible does not make that clear at all.
@Pohgrey
@Pohgrey 9 ай бұрын
Did anyone else notice that when Matt challenged Glen to change his mind about not valuing human life, Glen went to secular reasoning instead of mentioning god?
@Connection-Lost
@Connection-Lost Жыл бұрын
Regarding the other video- There is no "trans controversy". A mental illness is not a new gender. Matt takes the unscientific position here in favor of keeping his job and not being cancelled. Period.
@kosgoth
@kosgoth 4 жыл бұрын
"all humans are worthy of provision and protection" 1:05:35 You know, except when they won't bow to jesus, then they are only worthy of eternal torture. Perfectly counter to the religion.
@kosgoth
@kosgoth 4 жыл бұрын
@Déjà Siku You miss the point. Don't suck off jesus and you don't get into heaven. There isn't anyone innocent, and no one has a choice about being a sinner or not due to the claims of the book. So it's jesus's decree that everyone is a sinner that causes us to go to hell, not the pure claim that we are sinners.
@jonfromtheuk467
@jonfromtheuk467 4 жыл бұрын
@Déjà Siku "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" John 14:6
@jettec9411
@jettec9411 4 жыл бұрын
1:11:00 "the good life is the sacrifice of the strong for protection of the weak" excuse me but isn't it the deeply religious concervertive tea party that argues the strongest against healtcare for the poor, not caring about the deaths that causes.
@loveandfaithfulness4479
@loveandfaithfulness4479 4 жыл бұрын
Psalm 34:8 Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the one who takes refuge in him.
@jonfromtheuk467
@jonfromtheuk467 4 жыл бұрын
@@loveandfaithfulness4479 you know people like you should try to actually make a well thought out point , that addresses the original authors point , than endlessly quoting scripture as if an unbeliever will suddenly go, oh, right I'm convinced , alleluia
@zacharyshort384
@zacharyshort384 4 жыл бұрын
*Except all the scientific studies that I have cited* WHAT!? *You didn't cite a single damn study*
@majarimennamazerinth5753
@majarimennamazerinth5753 4 жыл бұрын
zachary short Well, Matt only presented one himself. You’re right, but that’s not how informal debates work.
@zacharyshort384
@zacharyshort384 4 жыл бұрын
@@majarimennamazerinth5753 He literally *said* he cited them. He did not do this. That's what I am calling out. It would be different if he had just said "I have seen thousands of studies". Somewhat near the end he stated he *had* cited (plural) amount of studies. I was actually waiting for him to cite some the entire time because I wanted to investigate his claims as they are counter to studies I have seen (such as the UN's Human Development Report).
@rafaeldugatto
@rafaeldugatto 4 жыл бұрын
@@majarimennamazerinth5753 Do you even know how a little something called "burden of proof" works?
@nathanjora7627
@nathanjora7627 4 жыл бұрын
Rafael Dugatto He is (deliberately or not, let’s be fair) making a « tu quoque » fallacy, more so than a shifting of the burden of proof.
@rafaeldugatto
@rafaeldugatto 4 жыл бұрын
@@nathanjora7627 yeah, I know. However, Matt does not have to bear the burden of proof, therefore the "tu quoque" was already dead from the start.
@JeremyMarrone
@JeremyMarrone Жыл бұрын
Great exchange. Thank you
@RKM_DarKo
@RKM_DarKo 3 жыл бұрын
"The Father is in the son and the son is in the father." Whooaaa there my man.. What are we talking about here?
@officialspock
@officialspock 3 жыл бұрын
Watch Predestination, father, son, mother all the same :D
@nlawler12
@nlawler12 3 жыл бұрын
Why is God Gae
@ahuman5150
@ahuman5150 3 жыл бұрын
@@nlawler12 who says he's gae? Lmao
@nlawler12
@nlawler12 3 жыл бұрын
@@ahuman5150 because the father is in the son and the son is in the father, that is gae incest
@larjkok1184
@larjkok1184 3 жыл бұрын
69er
@49perfectss
@49perfectss 4 жыл бұрын
Well done Matt! You represented atheism honestly. I would love if your counterpart could provide links to the studies he was talking about because I can't find them
@pleaseenteraname1103
@pleaseenteraname1103 Жыл бұрын
He doesn’t represent atheism, he represents fundamentalist anti-theism.
@49perfectss
@49perfectss Жыл бұрын
@@pleaseenteraname1103 lol that... Would be a form of atheism... You aren't the strongest thinker are ya 🤣
@craighambling
@craighambling Жыл бұрын
​@@pleaseenteraname1103 Someone wasn't being an impartial observer whilst watching this, were they? 🤦 What part of "I'm not saying I believe that god doesn't exist, I'm saying I reject the theist claim that God does exist, because there isn't enough evidence to back up that claim" would be fundamentalist anti-theism in your view?
@pleaseenteraname1103
@pleaseenteraname1103 Жыл бұрын
@@craighambling OK I was mostly being snarky and that was a typo” it was supposed to say I’m not saying I believe that God exists, i’m just saying I reject the atheists claim that God does not exist” it was a response to how do atheists define atheism as merely the lack of belief in a god or gods rather than the rejection. No I’m not talking about all atheists.
@craighambling
@craighambling Жыл бұрын
@@pleaseenteraname1103 Thank you for your clarifying reply! However, you weren't actually addressing atheists, you were specifically addressing someone else's assessment of Matt's position. You were addressing Matt's position *specifically,* not the various atheist nuances. That's disingenuous, my friend. You said that Matt doesn't represent Atheism, he represents fundamentalist anti-theism. That's not your position on atheists. That's your (incorrect) position on Matt's position. Which is why I said you weren't watching this as an unbiased observer.
@warrenphillips69
@warrenphillips69 4 жыл бұрын
Matt was very generous with his ideas/positions other dude was not.
@everythingisvanityneverthe1834
@everythingisvanityneverthe1834 4 жыл бұрын
I thought Glen was way less condescending than usual and I thought Matt was wonderful in his generosity towards the gaps in his ideas. Ironically Matt is much more comfortable than some of the people in these comments. You can see Matt over the years refining his ideas in conversation with strong objections and just being all around comfortable in his own skin. It's like all the conflict and rejection that he had to face made him a more rounded an mature human being. Lot's of respect. I'm pretty sure the man would have been a hell of a pastor - which I believe he actually considered before his deconversion.
@HardKore5250
@HardKore5250 4 жыл бұрын
How so?
@stylis666
@stylis666 4 жыл бұрын
Well, in Glen's defence, Matt could just rely on reality and his honesty and integrity. Glen didn't have this solid foundation to rest and fall back on; he constantly needed to make up shit to rationalize his bullshit. That's not easy.
@matthewvandeventer3632
@matthewvandeventer3632 4 жыл бұрын
@@everythingisvanityneverthe1834 He explicitly became an atheist because of his quest to find truth. He had a roommate that did not believe in god, and he wanted to help him stay out of hell. Then he discovered that the "God" he was spoon-fed didn't make sense. I'm faced the same dilemma, followed the truth right out of Christianity. Honestly any god that claims to be truth, a concept of accuracy, should be left by the wayside.
@jacoblee5796
@jacoblee5796 4 жыл бұрын
I agree, I think Matt was very generous with Glenn. Matt conceded a lot of points he shouldn't have and didn't need to just to move the conversation a long. If Glenn would have called into his show Matt never would have done this. I almost wonder if there wasn't some type of arrangement/agreement before the debate started.
@jplb96
@jplb96 Ай бұрын
The show is sponsored by the Templeton foundation who, famously held a study on prayer that demonstrated that the people being prayed for ended up worse off. Yet Glen is here telling us that religious people are better off recovery wise. LMAO. Also, regarding charity, secular societies tend to have massive support for public services in healthcare and social welfare that isnt based on someone's religious whim or views. It's a far more effective system than some church handing out soup for a conversion.
@brianhill5009
@brianhill5009 Жыл бұрын
Dillahunty clearly won the debate, but Scrivener was a worthy opponent and he pressed Dillahunty to come up with refined arguments against a god's existence.
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