Underappreciated Historical Weapons: WAR DARTS / Fletched Javelins

[@shadiversity]

Hi guys, there's a new Shadiversity discord server! Come join and connect with other members of our awesome Shadiversity community! discord.gg/a3NJVh7

[@MagnumGreenPanther]

Shadiversity it's a good chat community

[@maxhutto3056]

Shad medieval 2 total war has javelins! Look at my comment.

[@eldrenofthemist2492]

really great video shad. :) Can you cover more less known common weapons from history. Like that throwing Blade ring from India.

[@burkesullivan9086]

What medieval weapons would multi-armed humanoids really use?

[@m.a.t.a.s]

Sever?

[@AxeGaijin]

I think the official definition is: Long-pointy-feathery-throwy-thingy

[@DylanoTheWizard]

Limburg

[@td9250]

Longy* 😂😂

[@TUCKER332005]

i think they are just long lawn darts lol

[@lawrencemorris2261]

@@menacingcar0449 I heard it was called a plumbata. The person said they saw a war game using it, and that it's fletched ends have the special effect of self-righting, meaning it can be thrown any kind of way and still end up pointing forward when it hits somebody. Cool stuffm

[@GringoXalapeno]

In other words a javelin

[@shcomptech]

War Darts have a long history of use in Ireland, where they were used during the Middle Ages by light skirmishers in the opening stages of a battle. The skirmishers would then retreat and the heavy troops would engage in the melee. They were also frequently used in ambushes. You can get good range from them with the use of a throwing strap.

[@lechking941]

Say ain't the strip just a sling for a javlin like objects?

[@feelthepony]

same in Spain, mounted javelinmen were the light cavalry standard. the idea was that javelins are very good at dealing with armor so they could be used to hunt heavy cavalry and other elite armored troops.

[@orangmawas3858]

gaelic peltasts were a thing in medieval Ireland?

[@MrMarinus18]

Though he didn't really touch on the main reason the javelin was used which is damage. An issue with arrows is that they are light and very easily stopped by even padded armor. Because their amount of blunt force is so low they are very likely to just bounce harmlessly off of armor or helmets. Also even if they do penetrate there is a chance it's a minor wound. Arrow fire often works better to supress enemies and to bombard them. It's very unlikely you are going to kill an enemy soldier with a single arrow. Medieval archers also had a very hard upper limit in their accuracy due to again the arrows being light and easily affected by imperfections in the wood as it bends during flight and air movements. A javelin is a lot heavier and stiffer so a good thrower is far more accurate than a good archer. The big limitation though is supply. However on castle sieges they were actually the most common weapon for the defenders since they can just stockpile them in the armory and have servants bring them to them during the battle.

[@MrMarinus18]

What you are describing though was not the most common use of javelins during the middle ages. What you are describing is how the Romans fought with the Pilum used at first to break up the enemy and frighten them before engaging with heavy infantry. Making sure the enemy is never able to bring it's full strength to bare against you. In the middle ages though this was still done but wasn't as prominent due to the dominance of cavalry that could very easily surprise an army and a weaving rider can be very hard to hit with a javelin. Infantry armies were also more disciplined and had more armor so were less likely to be put off by a javelin attack. They did use tools to throw javelins but they were not straps, they were a stick with a cup on the end called an atlatl. However not only did this usually mean one less javelin to throw but with projectile weapons total range is usually not a terribly important metric. What matters most is the maximum range you can effectively hit a target. A more common use for the atlatl was actually to increase the power of a javelin at shorter range to pierce through wooden castle defenses and shields.

[@shadfacts6465]

Shad Fact: The movie How to Train a dragon is based on an event in Shad's life when he was 4 years old

[@shadiversity]

How do you know these things!

[@shadfacts6465]

Shadiversity sorry shad I can't give away my sources unless hey are publicly available

[@davidcarson7855]

let me guess--you were Hiccup training lizards

[@Katniss218]

Finally someone adressed the most important question: What about DRAGONS?! Finally, god bless you!

[@ForgingThought]

His dad's friend had a club foot?

[@RJLpt]

Just imagine fletched stones. Ah, medieval badminton.

[@mr.numbers5968]

Fletched pommels would be more effective

[@Katniss218]

POMMEL OF MASS DESTRUUCTIOOOOOON

[@Nocraza_Kram]

Stop your invoking Goliath's PTSD.

[@michaelmoore7975]

Shuttlerock?

[@loganroman5306]

Birdie*

[@ShagShaggio]

Ha! Giants get pissed when you pick their arrows up and throw them back.

[@shawnwolf5961]

I was an adventurer like you. Then I took a war dart to the knee.

[@Agreus-WolfsbaneYT]

Shawn Wolf tbh I dont kniw why they dont have spears in skyrim

[@xryeau_1760]

@@Agreus-WolfsbaneYT They were too lazy to create another weapon type and figure out how it works

[@Agreus-WolfsbaneYT]

@@xryeau_1760 i don't think it has anything to do with laziness

[@xryeau_1760]

@@Agreus-WolfsbaneYT Probably should've made it clear that what I said was a guess

[@ShortBarrelRaifu]

@@Agreus-WolfsbaneYT There's a mod for it on the nexus , i recall its name is javelin. not a built-in game feature, but hey at least you and enemy NPC could throw pointy stick at each other now, dunno of it will works or not for the companion thought

[@BigOugh]

4:06 woah look it's my man *PRIMITIVE TECHNOLOGY*

[@LOFIGSD]

Very common in Scotland and Ireland, my father showed me how to throw a dart using a knotted string and a fletcher dart nearly 50 years ago and his father before him, can even throw an Archery arrow if you have to, at close range, a favourite weapon of Scottish Border Reevers, I was told that they were good against horses, given that my Great Grandfather etc passed this down from the days of horses, and my own tests, an accurate and devastating weapons for the 20 - 50 yds range, and as you say, you can use a Shield at the same time!

[@ForgottenFirearm]

I'm imagining a row of a hundred dudes behind a city wall, arcing giant darts just over the top of the wall to deter invaders. Much more predictable trajectory --especially on a windy day, compared to bow and arrow. And less predictable to invaders compared to chunks of rock falling off the top of the wall. Five minutes later comes a fresh row of another hundred guys with a thousand more pointy sticks. :)

[@Sabersonic]

Isn't that basically the history of ancient warfare? People with pointy sticks.

[@J4K33L1T3]

Yes the team with most pointy sticks wins

[@MrMarinus18]

Not really. In that arrows are far more effective. The issue is that if someone get's close to you your bow is useless. Javalins are useful when you want ranged attacks but you can't be sure you are safe.

[@majungasaurusaaaa]

Or you could just have archers sitting safely ON the wall behind crenelations where they need no shield and have greater range and fire power. The advantage of javelins are on the open battle field where you can shoot and scoot while holding a shield. Light infantry skirmishers screening the main force relied heavy on javalins. Archers can't do that as they can't hold shields and are forced to stand in the tight groups with protection from heavier forces to provide volley fire.

[@MrMarinus18]

@@majungasaurusaaaa Javelin throwers are a bit of middle ground of both. They are not as effective ranged soldiers as archers and not as effective melee soldiers as spearman. However they can do both job somewhat.

[@drewopal9283]

The Atlatl is definitely one of the coolest weapons I have ever used. It's super easy to learn after a few times and the amount of power it provides is hard to match for a single person. It doesn't matter how strong you are spend some time practicing it and you will hit targets from long ranges in a quick amount of time. I am also disappointed it wasn't discussed I watched the video specifically because I thought it would.

[@colinmacaoidh9583]

Tremendously popular with the Irish. You can find them mentioned from the mythological era onwards. Flung from chariots in Cu'chulainn's time, part of the Fianna trials of Fion MacCumhal, Brian Boru trained his men to catch them and send them back (it was fun learning that trick :P), all the way through them being used by cetharnach against Queen Elizabeth's troops in the Nine Years War, at the close of the 16th and start of the 17th century. I quite like throwing cords, as they both extend the mechanical factors of your arm like an atlatl, but they also impart spin, which increases stabilization. Adding carved texture or a wrap at the center of balance helps with both finding the sweet spot fast, and in imparting some of that selfsame spin. Good vid, mate

[@FoxFireUnlimited]

Shad, I'm amazed that you didn't mention the atlatl in this video.

[@beardedbjorn5520]

I was too. They’re practically the same.

[@madisonlink7141]

He showed a version of it at the beginning and end.

[@davidebellomo358]

probably not medieval :O very interesting concept though

[@seymourfields3613]

I know. Pictures he showed were atlatls..

[@TIBYCOLLINS]

Or pilum :( when he talked about how it makes sense arming infantry with thrown spears so they can have a ranged option while being able to double up as a spear, I immediately thought he would reference the Roman's heavy infantry

[@LurkerDaBerzerker]

I love that you are bringing light to this weapon, it doesn't get as much attention or love as it deserves.

[@darekkonik9186]

I wish you had mentioned the plumbata. They're the closest thing to literal "war darts" and do deserve at least a cameo.

[@drizztiley8740]

Why throw a dart when you can throw a *pommel of mass destruction*

[@mornefouche94]

Drizzt Iley ...And ending them all rightly.

[@manekou3303]

Can you aim a pommel effectively?

[@pighunter247]

Armando Fuentes all you need to do is thow in their general direction as the splash will get them

[@GnarledStaff]

Cause sharps. Make the tip out of a pommel?

[@nacoran]

I have argued different pieces of this before... my favorite weapon in early D&D computer RPGs was the returning throwing axe, because you could miss and they would keep going until they reached their maximum range and they'd come back. With any maneuvering you get them to hit on the way back. There were precedents for weapons getting surprise if you couldn't see them (switch blades and other spring knives, glasssteel blades in poor lighting.) And of course a thief can backstab. So what I want is returning glasssteel throwing axes for a thief. If they miss on the first pass the thief can attempt to use them for a backstab... and if they are vorpal and they sever a limb on the way out, obviously they should continue out to their maximum range. In that case you could try the second attack on the way back.

[@casimiriii5941]

@ 4:55 it doesn't have to nullify the use of a shield, I know it's a technicality or an exception, but check out Pavise Shields. They're massive shields with a stand so you can use them hands free and were typically paired with a crossbow. They were shown in Game of Thrones, though used wrong and commonly mistaken for tower shields.

[@AlvoriaGPM]

This is amazing! Just a couple of days ago I was doing some world building for my fantasy setting and I got the idea for a culture that used these things... only I honestly didn't think they were real. I just kinda made them up because it seemed logical. So I got to wake up today and learn that this wasn't just my brain thinking of a cool fantasy idea! That's awesome! Thank you Shad!

[@MrMarinus18]

One thing I've learned is that no matter what idea you come up with someone already has had it before. So it really is more a matter rather it's more fun coming up with it yourself or looking it up.

[@violetopal6264]

I meantioned idea of using apponets arrows against them once. Response was "you can't do that!" Why not? O.o

[@kraigthorne]

An atlatl is essentially a stick with a handle on one end and a hook or socket that engages a light spear or “dart” on the other. The flipping motion of the atlatl propels a light spear much faster and farther than it could be thrown by hand alone. This is nothing more than a BIG atlatl.

[@azraelsmith9506]

I like the term, "fletched javelin", it seems to make more sense given that it looks the most similar.

[@RedWolfCid]

also provides descriptive clarity, saying war javelin I think of regular javelins and saying war darts I think of arambai...

[@stevenn1940]

I don't know, personally, I think war dart sounds pretty neat.

[@atraxian5881]

4:00 Reminds me of the Monty Python scketch with the self defense course against fresh fruit... "What if they have a pointed stick?"

[@WildFireGaming627]

Shad: "Whats the most basic ranged weapon you could really think of?" Me: "A Pommel."

[@samuelyoung1]

END HIM RIGHTLY

[@Ben_Kimber]

Which video started the pommel of destruction joke?

[@raphaelleleux9411]

@@Ben_Kimber Skallagrim's end him rightly video

[@redking36]

A rock

[@marsfreelander5969]

A rock Edit Oops thats taken lol

[@garyt1119]

When I was a kid, long long ago, we used items always called a 'dutch arrow', which was around 3 feet long and thrown with a string in a notch before the flights. They were fine for a random shot at small game but not very accurate. It would easily travel 40-50 mtr and make a kill.

[@scottyrose9106]

These seem like excellent weapons for angels/demons (winged, flying humanoid) that you did a video on. no need to draw a bow, which would hit the wings. they could even developed a throwing method where they threw overhead. Just a thought.

[@hybrid_grizzly]

scotty rose My issue with that is most interpretations of winged humanoids, the wings are on the shoulders, so a throwing motion wouldn’t be possible without messing with flight characteristics enough to be dangerous low to the ground

[@scottyrose9106]

Barrett Jordan yes, but if you can fly, why be low to the ground? stay high, and throw the war darts straight down. kind of like using a post hole digger. being low to the ground with cause them to give up their main advantage, altitude.

[@hybrid_grizzly]

scotty rose If you’re that high up, drop dozens of flechettes instead, would be much more effective, especially against large formations. You could even approach in a large formation unseen from cloud cover and devastate armies with no risk

[@scottyrose9106]

Barrett Jordan ya, the war the main idea of Shad's video on weapons for angles/demons. they would be good for a large group of combatants. but, once you whittle then down to just a few, flachettes would be almost useless. but these would work great, did picking of the few survivors; or, if you're only having a few to start with.

[@scottyrose9106]

Barrett Jordan you should watch Shad'a videos of angles/demons weapons. I think you're really like it.

[@JeremiahPTTN]

You should have brought up Roman Pilas! If I miss spelled it I’m sorry but they fit into this category and they were INSANELY effective

[@tylerwhaley4872]

those are javelins. are you referring to plumbatae?

[@charion4909]

Sigular is Pilum, Plural is Pila :P But I agree. A great weapon, and at 12:00 Shad specifically speaks about how good a war dart with a bodkin head might have been against armour. Thats exactly what a pilum is (Well, its a javelin, not a dart), but its a heavy javelin with a bodkin head, specifically to be used as shield breaker.

[@GallowglassAxe]

We get a lot of details of how the Irish used them during the medieval period. The Kern (Irish light Infantry) would use them first before moving in close quarters. They were particularly bothersome towards cavalry.

[@SoulTouchMusic93]

Gallowglass "particularly bothersome" lol

[@Joe125g20]

That's a great point! I reckon most horses could survive and power through an arrow hit, especially if it was only in skin and muscle, with all the adrenaline of battle... But a war javelin! With that hooked head! Shad said they were good for hunting animals because they wouldn't fall out. If you hit a horse with that, it's either going to stop it outright, or drag it along the ground and cause more damage. Either way, one dead horse and one dismounted rider!

[@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin]

I always thought cavalry were the best for dealing with skirmishers (dart throwers, slingers, etc.), but in a guerilla context, skirmishers would probably win a lot of the time.

[@Sabersonic]

*A Guy With Zeratul as His Profile Pic* I'm pretty sure that's the general idea of skirmishers

[@MrBottlecapBill]

Let's not forget that archers need to be able to see what they're aiming at, which may not always be the case in real battles as it is on tv. Long range weapons in hilly or scrub or forest terrain may not be so effective. Something deadly at closer range will always be useful. In fact if I were facing an army with a lot of archers or slingers, I would probably choose to situate myself IN a forested area to eliminate that threat totally.

[@dwaynemontgomery1851]

im adding this to my dnd campaign now there really cool

[@wadekirby8575]

I believe this is what the dart in D&D is based on.

[@hah-vj7hc]

There are certainly javelins in DnD. I have first learned about them in a DnD video game - ToEE or PoR it was.

[@ZLemons]

@@wadekirby8575 that would be cool. But seeing as how it only does 1d4 of damage. I assumed it was just a small dart. Especially since its used primarily by monks. It seemed like a monk-like weapon

[@wadekirby8575]

@@ZLemons Yea, this is more of a light javelin. Now I think the Plumbata is what the dart comes from. kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5fKfpmJj86Eibc

[@timeshark8727]

Reminds me of those old "lawn dart" toys from the 80's. Why our parents thought it was ok for us to play with giant, metal javelins in the back yard still boggles my mind. How we managed to survive to adult hood also boggles my mind. And... *WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS!!*

[@cfv7461]

"archers can't use shields" *laughs in pavise*

[@shanerooney7288]

Fletched Javelins are cool and all, but.... ... What About DRAGONS ?

[@andresarancio6696]

You probably could have people who don't know how to use bows to throw these things to fight them.

[@calamusgladiofortior2814]

You could throw darts at them from the MACHICULAAAATTIIIIOONNNNSSS!

[@johannageisel5390]

Dragons > Lots of things but Large Arrows > Dragons Proof: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5LKlKKegKesmLs

[@urticantspoon9960]

There seems to be a lot of weapons that mixed traits. A knife for cutting and a spear for poking, combine the two for a sword, a bow and arrow for ranged attacks a spear for close range, combine the two for a giant arrow. A spear and an Dane axe combine to get a pole axe....... this seems to happen a lot across history.

[@kyomademon453]

Whenever somebody doubts of thrown medieval weapons in general just remind them, the almugavars of the iberian peninsula were the elite of light infantry of europe during much of the medieval period, using short javelins(often deadly bc these men were strong as hell) and a long knife and small shield, they were an incredibly efficent anti-cavalry force, if the javelin didnt killed the horse or the rider they would charge in and finish the job with the knife or a mace

[@lichsuchientranh2910]

We have this in Mount and Blade, I love it to use as back up range weapon on my melee focus character: lance, shield, warhammer and javelin.

[@ipsumquaerere6927]

I used to be a swordenthusiast just like you, Then I took a GAINT arrow through my knee.

[@matteussilvestre8583]

Well, at least they didn't send you to the moon.

[@Tadicuslegion78]

Ipsum quaerere and now you have no knee...or leg for that matter

[@LowBrowHighJinx]

Shad, you completely forgot about atlatls! They could hit speeds reaching 100mph and a range comparable to long bows, and just as accurate. Even some of the historical pictures you show are of atlatls. please make a new segment showcasing how the atlatl turned the basic spear thrower into a human artillery machine!

[@MrMarinus18]

Though they were not used for that long range because a big disadvantage of javelins is the limited ammo capacity. You can't use them for long range bombardment as you'll run out far too quickly. The atlatl was not used all that frequently cause the accuracy at those distances were very low. The times it was used was more commonly to give additional power at the ranges you could throw it by hand. To do things like pierce shields and wooden defenses. The most common use of the javelin was actually for castle defenses. After all you can just stock up the armory with them so the ammo problem is no longer there. Shad also kind of glossed over another major advantage of the javelin which is it's much higher damage output. Arrows often have the issue of low damage output and are more easily stopped by armor.

[@TheArklyte]

Underappreciated? I've conquered Caldaria with those(or rather djerids. If you're using two shields, there is no place for bow or crossbow left)! Besides 40% of magic projectiles are basically them, but made of lightning...

[@MrMaxBoivin]

Are you using two shields? I often thought of doing this but it kind of felt... cheap. Plus I like to have a sword, a spear, a shield and some throwing weapons. I would have to sacrifice one of those to double up on shield.

[@TheArklyte]

I was tired of looking like dead hedgehog so yeah, I was using two shields.

[@NightMind0]

Can you share more details?

[@deektedrgg]

"Calradia" not "Caldaria" you uneducated plebeian smelly Nord.

[@wiwersewindemer4437]

TheArklyte what game?

[@zeinnerp7609]

5:01 Did you hear that Legolas? YOU CAN'T USE A SHIELD WHILE SHOOTING ARROWS!!!!!

[@alexmalyarchuk1723]

Actually some nations do that historically, even of horseback - turks, persians, crimean tatars - I know just about them for sure, but maybe even more do that also. Well, those shield were small, buckler sized, but non the less. Here kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4mWfmunfdeCaq8 and here kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoi4maSkpNR7fJY

[@CrashmoreElectricBlue]

Observe: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZKqi6GCrqiDjtk

[@slimebuck]

they work best if you have the high ground... please kill me

[@stevenn1940]

Well, it's over, slime bucket.

[@slimebuck]

"I hate chu!"

[@lloydfromfar]

Sword, shield and "kind of spear" was what I was aiming for a fighter combat style for one of my player this Sunday and look what I found today! :D Thanks Chad! My Mythras campaign just got better and more accurate, haha! :D

[@ThrottleKitty]

Your channel is so great for my game set in a Hard Sci-Fi / Dark Fantasy world with things such as giants, but limited entirely by reality. The tools humans would design to fight these giants (and visa versa) have been deeply fascinating and enjoyable to me, I have no idea if anyone will appreciate the level of realism, but at least I do!

[@ADGZone]

4:10 Primitive Technology makes his debut in Shadiversity

[@carlosesteve1986]

ADG Reviews Should be cool more Primitive and ancient content, is very underrated

[@stockvillain]

Oddly enough, I've got him immediately adjacent to this video in my feed. Good algorithming, KZbin.

[@Kurtoric]

Finally, I find someone that appreciates this weapon as much as I do. When playing fantasy RPGs like D&D I would be just as inclined to carry this with my coveted shield as I would a sword. The first time I ever used this in a D&D game the other players and DM looked at me as if I was crazy but I know the true value of the weapon and its versatility. I have seen your videos and love your content, you sir have earned yourself a subscription.

[@fattiger6957]

Thanks for the idea, Shad. I'm writing a fantasy book right now and there's a scene where a character uses javelins. I'm going to switch it to fletched javelins. As far as naming goes, I would probably call them fletched javelins. The romans had a war dart called a plumbata. They weren't very big (think of war version of lawn darts) but they are probably the most well known weapon that one would call a war dart. War javelin is pretty redundant since javelins were originally weapons of war.

[@fattiger6957]

Avatrass It's kinda a semantic point, but I consider there to be a difference between hunting spears and javelins. To me, javelins are weapons of war (that later became the sport like swordfighting became fencing) Might just be a matter of preference.

[@matthewmuir8884]

Fat Tiger same. I'm writing a fantasy novel that has a medieval fantasy version of the Roman Republic (I know; how original...), and I'm going to switch the javelins to fletched javelins.

[@TheKamiBunny]

Ahh the plumbata.

[@garyt1119]

Dont forget the 'atleatle' or Woomara style thrower, makes them far more effective.

[@corjoth]

As an individual who is developing a TTRPG, your videos are an invaluable resource. You would probably be glad to hear that I already had a fletched javelin available for some of my players. Thank-you for being a wonderful entertainer and teaching individual.

[@zedek_]

No love for the atlatl? I know it was shown in the picture of Primitive Technology, but someone who isn't aware of it may not notice it! Sure, it's included in the throwing of a spear, but it was a really cool innovation from the paleolithic era. Ah well, I guess you can't get into _everything_ , haha.

[@justinallen4903]

I was wondering the same thing. I noticed them in a couple of the pictures, but they weren't mentioned once.

[@MajoraZ]

The use of the Atlatl in Mesoameriica is pretty interesting. Unlike in the Old World, where the Bow and Arrow mostly supplanted the Atlatl due too ease of use and greater range despite packing less power, in Mesoamerica the atlatl continued to see widespread use alongside the bow well past the development of complex civilizations and organized armies: Even at the time of contact with Europeans, around 3000 years after when the region saw it's first cities and proto-states, the Atlatl continued to be favored by a lot of city-states and larger empires, including the Aztecs. In fact, in central mesoamerica, the Atlatl was seen as the more refined weapon, wheras the bow was seen as primitive and barbaric, as the bow was mainly favored by the Chichimeca, which were basically Mesoamerica's equivalent to Germanic tribes: They were nomadic, unorganized groups that the rest of the region (which was otherwise entirely filled with actual organized political states operating out of cities) saw as savage, wheras the atlatl was used by the earlier Toltecs, who the Aztecs and other groups at the time of contact saw as their cultural and intellectual fore-bearers. What's ironic is that the Aztecs actually had Chichimeca heritage, being one of a few recent waves of Chichimeca groups moving further south from northern mexico and settling down in the central area around the time of the decline of the toltecs, and only married into the established Toltec lineage in the area, which they used to justify their rule. Mesoamerican history is super interesting and I wished more people made an effort to learn and inform others about it, it has the same sort of interesting cultural, political, and martial dynamics, such as political marriages, coups, etc; that classical antiquity or medieval history has, but with it's own quirks due to it's geographic isolation.

[@GallowglassAxe]

In Europe the atlatl fell out of favor over the leather sling to throw darts. Its easier to carry you can make a bunch of them already tied to the dart so you can just grab and throw. It also puts spin on the dart which makes it fly straighter. Tod also shows that it gives you pretty much the same distance (though that is up for debate).

[@aikologic]

Doesn't it effectively act as a lever to throw long darts farther than one could throw a javelin?

[@pedroarjona4618]

Atalt have two military advantages, one mentioned in the video is that you can use it when carriying a shield, the second one is that a bow, made with a natural fiber or natural tegument, lose it string elasticity with time, so to prevent these you have to keep the string partially unattached when marching to battle and then attach it right before it, (in spanish we say that you arm the bow, armar el arco, i do not how to say these in english), these of course leave you vulnerable to a surprise attack, with an Atlatl you can march fully armed at all times.

[@ObjectHistory]

I’ve been researching this topic recently. Good video. Glad to see the lack of clear classifications regarding large darts wasn’t just a problem I was experiencing!

[@william2599]

I would love having these in some medival games like chivalry and such. It would really fit in

[@Bingwell]

ThEy ArE iN cHiVaLry

[@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin]

Yeah war dart could be like a light javelin, but with more range. Chivalry already had 3 types of javelins last I checked.

[@joshbeaumont4816]

Love seeing KZbinrs support each other

[@williamp.5253]

Sample of what you are talking about Shad, is the Roman Pilum. This was a standard issue piece of equipment for Roman infantry soldiers that was shorter than average spears and designed to be thrown. The extra long iron or steel head was intended to punch through enemy shields and pierce the targets behind them.From what I understand, The Roman soldiers would throw them into charging enemies before drawing their swords and using them.

[@swordsman1ke511]

Don't forget the plumbata

[@alessandronavone6731]

Yep, the Plumbata is literally a fletched javelin

[@matthewmuir8884]

Alessandro Navone and William Gonzalez from the pictures and such that I've seen, the plumbata was not much bigger than an actual dart, and had a weight just behind the head so that it would have decent impact.

[@Kar4ever3]

Lost in time, I saw a video from someone like Tod, doing the Atlatl. Building, testing etc. Was what made me start watching the whole medieval weapons community. So many years ago.... I wonder if the channel still exist.

[@Elmithian]

Your weapon stack is still increasing...

[@Hopeofmen]

Elmithian NEED MORE *S W O R D S.*

[@oneofmanyparadoxfans5447]

Not enough English Longbows.

[@T2266]

While Skall is once again selling his stack... Just what is Shad's day job?

[@Vergil9O]

Just starting a new dnd campaign. And one of the key features of my class is the ability to resummon a weapon from _anywhere._ Whilst I was going to use javelins and a shield, I had never heard of war darts. And they make so much sense for my particular concept, I just *have* to include it. My only issue is that in dnd javelins are STR based, not DEX based. Which to me seems rather ridiculous when bows aren’t, so I’ll house rule if DM agrees. Super excited, thanks Shad!

[@AuthenticallyAwful]

BUT SHAD! THE POMMEL IS THE BEST RANGED WEAPON! PUT THE POMMELS IN SLINGS AND USE THAT!

[@John-sz7vf]

Malara Hedeki a pommel in a sling would probably actually be pretty brutal memes aside

[@benjaminbrand3714]

I would love to see an "Underrated Historical Weapon" video about the sling! Especially the Roman ones with lead shot. Given how many peoples used them over such a long range of historical periods, it's crazy how little people talk about them and how little we see them in fiction and fantasy

[@Tamashikiri]

I don't know, Shad... I only trust javelins as far as I can throw them. :P You might be interested to know that in 5th edition D&D, javelins are prevalent enough to be an option for the barbarians' and fighters'starting equipment packages.

[@LordSephleon]

My memory could be a mite fuzzy, but I'd swear that "war darts" (which javelins usually end up representing anyway) actually existed in earlier editions of D&D, though their stats have been quite inconsistent. I vaguely recall my longtime group and I having read the description of darts somewhere in 2nd Edition AD&D and discussing that it seemed like "throwing arrows" despite the weapon stats not really matching what we read - specifically the low damage (about half that of javelins). Again, memory isn't what it used to be, so I may have to go back to my 2nd Edition books and see if I can find that description somewhere...

[@Gabdube]

D&D 5E has both "Darts" and "Javelins". Somehow, darts are starting equipment for monks....

[@ActionNerdGo]

@@Gabdube Thats because they are thinking of "darts" as similar to shriuken.

[@johnknecht6958]

I know someone may have pointed this out, but one of the things the broad head may have made them useful for is when they embed themselves into a shield. That shield will with in the span of two or three of those things getting stuck in there become very unwieldy. They could have been used initially as a means to break or at very least soften a shield wall.

[@Thrand11]

This is Thrand. once again I have done this before been using Javelins and then used it a spear when rushed works very effectively .

[@robertgotschall1246]

I read a book once called August Bridge I think. It was about how Samurai were far more likely to fight relatively unarmed peasants than full-blown knights. I imagine the same was true in medieval Europe. These war darts might not seem very impressive unless all you had was a large kitchen knife or a scythe to fight with. But the tapestries were more likely to depict more heroic scenes for PR.

[@huchung9886]

Let’s spread war dart awareness! #wardarts

[@bob77576]

Austin Chan you ever play a little game called mount and blade?

[@shawnwolf5961]

#NotInMyWar #BanFullAutoAssaultDarts

[@strategicmessager9659]

Are Age of Empires 2 Arambai units good too? They throw darts from horseback.

[@alexmalyarchuk1723]

In some Skyrim modes war darts (and javelins) are present too.

[@antiquegeek]

As an atlatl enthusiast I have wondered why it seems they fell out of favour. The lighter, fletched and springy shaft dart added range that in practice fell in the distance of slings and even many bows. The energy driven into the dart head with the shaft behind it is amazing. Our ancestors used them against the largest animals on the planet so it has been a puzzle to me why they were not upgraded during the later arms race. They would have done well as shield drags as used by the Romans. A hail of long shaft pointy things forcing opponents to raise shield and if that broad head went through a light shield it would become a real bugger to get out so you could use your shield properly. If it went into you then very unfortunate. Given that an atlatl user could carry 8 or 10 darts it would be scary to charge a front line shield wall with a rain of darts coming over it starting out maybe 50 metres or more and closer. With iron heads the darts driven with atlatl energy could probably cause even armoured soldiers some significant angst.

[@matteussilvestre8583]

That *GIANT ARROW* in the thumbnail gave some Dark Souls flashbacks, thankfully it's actually a dart/javelin.

[@stevenn1940]

When I first saw those, I literally asked out loud "Why are they shooting spears?!?"

[@Thalanox]

Giant Arrows! Free samples to anyone nearby! No-one can say no to them. You'll get your samples whether you like it or not.

[@malcomalexander9437]

Because normal arrows aren't big enough when dragons are involved.

[@Alzir-n9m]

"why not? its a game and therefore a form of art and therefore we can do whatever we want to increase enjoyably?"

[@Gabdube]

No, you are wrong. It should give you flashbacks from Mount & Blade or Mount & Blade Warband, or any of its mods. You haven't lived if you haven't played Mount & Blade.

[@michaellind9650]

I always associated those as arrows for siege bows, or great bows. The ones you strap your feet to and draw the string while sitting/laying on the ground. I never thought of them like that. Good video

[@matthewmuir8884]

Great video Shad. It is amazing; these weapons disappeared from the modern image of the Middle Ages just like bucklers.

[@renookami4651]

"Arrow head? Javelin head? Dart head? Thiiiing head?"" Me: Fletcher-head?

[@IPostSwords]

The videos by leo todeschini on this have been great too. Glad you linked them

[@MrDowntemp0]

Super interesting! I wouldn't have learned about these otherwise. Thanks Shad!

[@kieranfitz]

And what's interesting is that they were far more common in Irish warfare than the conventional bow and arrow.

[@Slayerlord0]

I've noticed that too. Just finished reading Lady Gregory's Irish Mythology and I don't remember bows being mentioned at all. Irish seemed to prefer slings and spears/javelins/war darts for ranged combat. Very intriguing. Any idea why that might be?

[@TheArklyte]

Slayerlord0 or maybe prevalence of bows is more of a modern myth, huh?

[@Slayerlord0]

Eh. I feel like it was more of a regional or cultural thing. Period artwork and their prevalence in myth and religion shows to me that bows were fairly common most other places in the world. Not everywhere, obviously, but most. Maybe its just because I'm used to thinking of the European weaponry in a certain way, but the lack of bows in Celtic Ireland just seems like an oddity and I'm curious as to why it developed that way.

[@tomgoff7887]

Possibly the notoriously damp climate of Ireland made bows less reliable tools of war there Rain, mist or just plain damp can affect drawstrings, feathers used as fletchings and the bow itself (especially if glue was used in its construction). If you are a soldier and your life depends on your primary weapon working each time, every time and in every situation, then perhaps bows were less than ideal weapons in Ireland

[@TheArklyte]

+Tom Golf you might be right

[@leviathan1082]

the atlatl as is depicted at 4:08 is one of the ways that were used to compensate for the fletched javelins lack of range, the increased leverage boost the range and speed of the javalins by a fairly substantial amount.

[@CraigLYoung]

Interesting, your fellow countryman ,John Flanagan, has one of his main supporting character using this type of weapon very successfully in his series "The Brotherband." I always thought it was just artistic license but it seems he did his homework.

[@selenagamya1612]

I remember that book series! I think I still have it

[@JustFlemishMe]

And now I want a Shad review for Flanagan's work even more :)

[@CraigLYoung]

JustFlemishMe : Mr. Flanagan did two series, The Ranger's Apprentice and The Brotherband, both are set in a mythology european early medieval setting. The Ranger's Apprentice is based off England and the Brotherband is Viking. Although both series are hero journey style they are not very historical but are an excellent read. I highly recommend both series.

[@JustFlemishMe]

Yeah, I know, I read every book so far :) I just consider the work as almost monolithic because they're obviously set in the same universe. I'm mostly interested in believability. John Flanagan certainly seems to know his stuff, and I really give him props for his attention to tactics; always leads me to enjoy his battles. But I'd like a more... Shall wa say, specialized eye to see if it really does add up =)

[@niktanonim6214]

This video made me add these things to the RPG session I'm currently working on. Thank you Shad!

[@fostropicax5149]

I'm loving this series, Shad!

[@mercilesscorvid2270]

Sounds very similar to an Atlatl which was actual used against the conquistadors and was supposedly one of the few weapons they were worried about.

[@chriscalvin5083]

Great video Shad

[@MrPittbull30]

Just checked out Tod's Workshop on this topic and it's quite well done.

[@alexp5461]

Forgotten? Not if you have played Mount & Blade.

[@strikemasterice2004]

Alex P Those darn Sarrinids...

[@Gabdube]

Yes, but you can't count on unsophisticated plebs to know about Mount & Blade either. Most people somehow associate fletched javelins with Dark Souls, and apparently have never seen or heard of it anywhere else.

[@alexmagneiplays4555]

Underappreciated historical weapons - Swordchucks!!! For real though, this stuff is super interesting, but I'd love if you tackled other cultures than just medieval in this series!

[@MagnumGreenPanther]

So are pointy brooms considered a deadly weapon? Does the U.K. need to consider banning the sale of brooms to minors?

[@loganatallah6558]

MagnumGreenPanther anything is a deadly weapon if you have strong enough conviction

[@joshuahadams]

Poor Longbottom.

[@loganatallah6558]

Snigga Odinson Muslim licence?

[@natec6855]

There was a raccoon attacking people out side the hotel (by the trash) my dad stayed at frequently. My dad ducktaped his Spyderco endura to a broom the hotel staff had. and he went out back and the raccoon came out of the trash and he threw the "spear" and it went into the raccoon. Which, he caught and killed swiftly.

[@TheKamiBunny]

I was about to say what's wrong with a javelin. Then i remembered my Track and Field training throwing a Javelin and how there's a specific technique to get something that weighs 600g to fly over 50m with the point facing the right direction. The fletching makes sense.

[@oneparticularlysmartape]

So... A new underappreciated classical medieval weapon that might have been used in all sorts of situations: Battlefields, sieges, hunting... Well that's nice and all, but Shad... ahem ahem... WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS?

[@jamesbearden3468]

I volunteered at Cahokia Mounds for a couple summers, and actually have experience. we called them atlatl spears (the atlatl being the spear thrower). they are pretty much exactly what you're talking about. you can actually see an atlatl in the guys hand at 13:33 (the smal piece of wood below the spear to the right of his hand). Atlatls drastically increased the range you could throw these things.

[@mayalackman7581]

Shad how do you feel about having single handedly created the most over used meme since the pommel of mass destruction? I am of course referring to "What about Dragon" . . .

[@Gheringerbob12345]

One video game I can think of that uses javelins as a dedicated, common primary weapon type is Obsidian's RPG Tyranny from a couple years ago. That game uses javelins both as a ranged and melee attack, and in a weapon/shield setup (and is the only weapon type to draw perks from all three) that's just as prevalent and effective as using bows, one handed weapons, or two handed weapons.

[@toddellner5283]

thinking a little further, the "war dart" was used in Central and South America through the European Conquest and in North Africa up until the 18th or 19th century. I've got a couple of the latter in my collection. Their fletching is metal which makes them more resistant to jostling and rough treatment, and they have barbs on the head and shaft which make nastier wounds and keeps the weapon attached to the target

[@SampoPaalanen]

The funny thing fully metallic wardarts survived as long as early WWI where at first they dropped metal darts from planes instead of bombs (and also threw them at each other when not using pistols or rifles) but it quickly discorvered that if the dart exploded it would more effective which lead to modern plane mounted bombs.

[@inventor121]

Then they discovered that you could put a whole bunch of exploding darts inside the bomb, thus the clusterbomb was born.

[@rafaelalvessantos12]

IMO this needs a follow up video about the Atlatl, not medieval for sure, but it was a groundbreaking device for humanity. Paleolithic and Neolithic arsenal is so rich, I hope the channel someday can tackle those along with weapons from other civilizations (like obsidian blades).

[@MrMarinus18]

The Atlatl was mostly used against very large creatures like elephants. The atlatl decreases accuracy but increase range and penetration. With humans though you don't usually use throwing spears in a large battlefield. You usually use them from very short range. From long range a heavy bow is much more accurate, fires faster and you can carry much more ammo. Obisidan blades were actually almost entirely wood but they had an edge of obsidian.

[@theskyrimplayer9854]

The man of epicness has returned.

[@Hirosjimma]

Hi Shad, just a quick note on your comment on slings. The romans commonly used lead bullets instead of stones in their slings in warfare. because of their higher density and smaller size these could penetrate (thick) clothing and sometimes even skulls.

[@sinister6971]

I always get a kick out of your videos thanks

[@NetAndyCz]

0:50 Normal darts are quite a dangerous weapons I remember that some classmates played with them and somehow one went in front of the target or something and ended up with a dart protruding from the middle of his chest. It did not hit the lung or anything serious, luckily, but yeah, increase the size and weight and they will be quite deadly.

[@geraltgrey-mane695]

"a long pointy thing" Hahaha :D

[@randomuser5443]

Much unlike the inventor’s dick I don’t regret this

[@exlibrisas]

To penetrate vital organs.

[@thomasmcgraw8778]

We're actually getting ready for a game of cogent roleplay and my friend wanted to run a 3 point in strength ranged weapon as an orc. We were having trouble getting it to work but with hi s increase in strength and wingspan I think we can have him have a custom longbow to fire these things. Can you even imagin the look on a shopkeeper's face when someone comes in and says "got any wardarts. My bow is out of ammo." thanks for the info. This is going to make for a fun time.

[@andresarancio6696]

Humans are biologically designed to throw things, so yeah, makes sense having this large, piercing, totally a penis joke weapon that you throw. Also, giants throwing these things would be sweet

[@DarkusaurusRexStuff]

Giants could probably get these into bows. THEY NEED A BIGGER THROWING THING!

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

You actually see (the opposite of) that in Skyrim with the Dragonborn xpac! The Reiklings are small and so throw javelins - but their javelins are smaller and so the player can use them instead as arrows. Which basically makes us the giants! :D

[@thesupersonicstig]

I prefer the Small Plastic Disc that you Throw, myself

[@arthas640]

That's why British people play Darts so much, they're just preparing for war

[@arthas640]

thesupersonicstig *pulls out a box of lawn darts* Bring it!

[@yog-thaquasleeperofrlyeh2816]

I used to do javlin on the side for sports when I was in track and I even made it to state. Shad said that when throwing a javlin it tends to flip around, but there is a way to hold it that prevents that and it also helps a lot for distance too, but it kind of feels awkward when starting to throw it that way.

[@Rokaize]

What way do you hold it? Thinking of getting into throwing some Greek-style javelins.

[@yog-thaquasleeperofrlyeh2816]

@@Rokaize its kind of easy but it feels really uncomfortable but after a bit of practice it'll get easier to throw straight. basically, you hold it like shad in the title picture only you hove the thumb out like you're giving a thumbs up only you are holding a javlin. again it feels really awkward at first and takes practice.

[@sinister6971]

man I love your channel you always teach me something cool in new everyday

[@gabrielpottebaum5249]

Projectile Point is the term for the edged or pointed head on the tip of a projectile. Hope this helps! This is definitely my favorite under appreciated historical weapons so far! Could that be another weapon that could be used effectively by dragon riders?

[@andrejkrebs]

I will probably add this to the game I'm making, just because you asked nicely :)

[@andrejkrebs]

PS.: just let me know what you want them to be called

[@hah-vj7hc]

@@andrejkrebs Javelins, like they are called in DnD. The one-handed throwing device, one of humanity's deadliest weapons for its time, is the Atlatl.

[@ForgingThought]

New name: Single Handed Arrowof Destruction.....see what I did there

[@brbrmensch]

4:08 nice primitive technology pic :D fits very good though

[@losttexan5199]

Shad, just watched this and I believe that a broadhead or barbed tip would be very effective against someone wearing a gambis. It may not kill or even injure but think of having a 4 foot shaft encumbering your ability to move and fight. In this way it becomes a force multiplier by reducing the combat effectiveness of your enemies.

[@Thrand11]

This is Thrand, Great video would love to test a plumbata or war dart on my channel . I do test a Thrown middle bronze age spear like in the Iliad in an upcoming video testing Iron mountain Armories 1580 Tosei Gusoku Japanese armor.

[@Thrand11]

Snigga Odinson we made a reply to him look it up :)

[@henrihamalainen300]

When you test war dart, could you also test how much more power you get into throw it you use atlatl to throw the dart? Might be interesting to see the difference in damage.

[@kovi567]

Stop calling throwing arm (idk if I translate right) an atatl! It's not an aztec-only tool!

[@georgethompson913]

but atatl takes less time to type out

[@henrihamalainen300]

Mate Kovacs, i used that name because thats the commonly used word for it in english. I could have used other names for it but i prefer to use the one that most know and understand...

[@Foxxie0kun]

I'm surprised that more games don't give archers a choice of arrows to use. The functions of broadhead arrows, bodkin arrows, and barbed arrows are all different and have their own benefits in warfare and combat. Usually if games have options for arrow types, it's only a flat modifier for damage (Mount and Blade: Warband just has barbed, broadhead, and bodkin arrows give +1 or more damage).