Please be advised that this test was purely to show how everything can be tested to double check what you see in doctor. RX was set to maximum visibility so it relates to everything that can be viewed in doctor but it has no relation to audibility. I wouldn't advise setting RX like this in reality as it will make everything look more audible than it actually is. When viewing all of this pay more attention to the numerical values. For example, anything below -80dbfs I would say is completely inaudible but many would argue below -60dbfs so pay more attention to the level of everything when determining if anything is an issue or audible. What other types of under the hood geeky stuff would you like me to investigate next? 🤓
@SuperIZL2 жыл бұрын
Hi Paul, maybe a bit off topic but you mentioned in a previous video how many pink strips you could run in one project with your i9. I'm am very interested how Lowe core count would effect the performance. Cores could be turned off to simulate a i3, i5 or i7 and by putting you'd system in power saving power scheme your cores would downclock or in your bios to simulate older generations with a lower IPC. I'm very interested in your findings. In my opinion it's very valuable information in modern music making and info on the net is old. And it's geeky so yeah... Could ya pls?
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
I'd need to ask guys in the know. When it comes to computer tech I have very limited knowledge. Suppose I can ask stefan who built my pc
@SuperIZL2 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird That would be awesome ❤️
@mathyoooo22 жыл бұрын
The different ways to do oversampling. More specifically what type of (lowpass) filters they use internally. Some plugins use standard minimum phase filters, some use linear phase FIR filters and there's even linear phase IIR filters (although probably impossible to tell the linear phase ones apart without seeing the code). You could check if oversampling causes lots of phase shift or maybe some pre-ringing. See what that does to the sound
@SuperIZL2 жыл бұрын
@@mathyoooo2 ooh +1
@mrmorpheus97072 жыл бұрын
you should do a show with a list: of plugins without/;with aliasing ! that would be great
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
I have a list of ideas and that's definitely one of them 🤓 possibly take a dev at a time and get their worst aliasing plugins and oversample them if possible
@akagerhard2 жыл бұрын
I started my own list, for plugins that I use (and some that I want to use): Eventide doesn't do a lot of harmonics, but seems clean: living up to their name. (Omnipressor, H910 Harmonizer, InstantFlanger, InstantPhaser) Klanghelm: MJUC aliases like an absolute betch. SDRR aliases too. Given their reputation that's a shame. To me personally it felt good to see this, because it kind of "reassured" me that my ears are not crap, since I consistently put them up against other plugins for a while and they always lost. I thought it was because of taste.. now I suspect it might be aliasing. Plugin Alliance: townhouse compressor aliases, but below 100db, so I guess it's okay. mpressor has harmonics, but seems clean. alpha has no harmonics. maag4 has no harmonics (don't use it anymore, still tested it). Blackbox you've (Paul) shown. SPL-Transient Designer: It's a funny funny thing.. absolutely clean if you gainstage.. but don't you dare come in hot, because it will start aliasing like you haven't seen before - and I think that's not good for a transient designer. Sonimus Britson: Channel aliases like a betch, if you drive it.. which is the whole point of the plugin. Am disappointed about that. Because here is my secret: I can't be bothered to use additional plugins in order to oversample a plugin. That means: EQs that cramp, can't do high boosts for me and all plugins with harmonic content simply sound how they sound. Waves: MV2 is clean, RBass has harmonics, but doesn't alias, Scheps Parallel Particles Air aliases a lot (never use it, never liked it), Thick doesn't, Bite aliases reasonably. Softube: I wish I knew. (So if anyone has tests on the Weiss DS1-MK3, Tube-Tech CL 1 B mk II, Chandler Limited Germanium or Mutronics Mutator: I am all ears and eyes!) IKMultimedia fairs a lot better than many people give them credit for... and you don't even need to engage oversampling-buttons. I've seen different approaches. The Clipper and Stealthlimiter seem to be oversampling on their own, the VC670 simply cuts off higher order harmonics, as does their Pultec emulation... and that's their old plugins. Note: If you thoroughly abuse Clipper and Stealthlimiter (drive harder than sounds good) they start aliasing, but newer Plugins like the Comprexxor (Distressor emu) actually solved that problem.. you can abuse it all you want, you won't get aliasing. On the other hand their Space-Delay (which I love) aliases. I wish they would implement the Comprexxor-anti-aliasing-code to all their plugins (and plenty that I don't use will probably aliase like a betch..). Also I wonder what exactly it is that their Tape-Echo (old but gold imo) does.. Harmonics are there, but if the fundamental is 10 k there's like a wide "noisebell" or something through the whole spectrum. Wouldn't call it aliasing by the looks and sound of it, but then again I'm new to this analysing stuff.
@GoGoGoRunRunRun2 жыл бұрын
Btw, there's a thread on Gearspace called "Testing Aliasing of Plugins (meassurements)" which has quite a few plugins tested, if you're interested.
@DATApush3r Жыл бұрын
This is the best general explanation of what nyquist and aliasing are. I've always been confused by definitions online previously. THANKS!!!
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
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@MRboomchongo Жыл бұрын
I'm wearing open backs and when you played that tone my dog started barking going nuts at 40. Keep up the amazing detective work!
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
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@GingerDrums2 жыл бұрын
By far the best video I have seen on this channel, let alone on the topic in general. You support your argument conclusively with converging evidence, fantastic content.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@Hello-pl2qe10 ай бұрын
Great video. Ian Shepherd just created a video on how true peaks can also be creating aliasing when people are unaware their mixes are clipping with a true peak while they look safe just using a standard limiter and standard peak limiting.
@ostrol15902 жыл бұрын
Hey Paul, just wanted to thank you for keeping your videos long format and thorough. Shows how much you care, and for someone like me who cares also.... You get the picture :) Good quality educational and scientific content is rare. Keep it up!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Took a long time to edit and set up so always thankful for the appreciation 🤓
@nj12552 жыл бұрын
Just a quick tip: using a linear 20Hz-20kHz sweep usually gives you a clearer picture of the harmonics and aliasing. When using a logarithmic sweep, the harmonics/aliasing bunch together in the end of sweep in a big mess, especially if their are a ton of harmonic/aliasing.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Hmmm.. Maybe should have used the longer sweep for the UAD then? Tim Petherick gave me a fast sweep and a long sweep. I used the fast sweep
@hermannpreinfalk93002 жыл бұрын
Yeah! This is truly one of your best videos so far! Everyone with an IQ above 75 should be able to follow and recreate what you did. I use the tone generator with a sine wave that comes with cubase and sweep it manually from 10k to 20k and the aliasing effect becomes pretty obvious. I'm so glad I never used the "analog" mode in many of the waves plugins. Instead I use Fabfilter's Saturn 2 in HQ-Superb mode.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
The sweep / rx7 method was a big thing for me to really see how much aliasing is in the actual printed file but I'm definitely going to start listening more to test tones to evaluate how much it masks. I think that's what will get quite a few skeptics. When your 10k tone turns into an ambulance.. You got a problem 😂
@TheMonkBeatsOne2 жыл бұрын
"today I am going to teach you how to catch aliasing by yourself!" so nobody will bore you about every plugin, great move Sir Paul Thug Harmonics.
@akagerhard2 жыл бұрын
And there I go asking him about Softube-Plugins every other video.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
The more knowledge we have the more we can influence change. That's how I see it 🤓
@TheMonkBeatsOne2 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird I agree, thank you for your work and inspiration. I tweak in a better way my software knobs since I met you [even if I tweak knobs before you born :)].
@arthurmee Жыл бұрын
Paul you have single handedly totally got me interested in all this analysis thing. I've avoided it thinking to myself that I'd leave it to the technicians while I get on with writing and recording music but because you take the time to teach and with demonstrations as you have so well in this video I am now convinced that I want to know about this. area of music production. This was a great video Paul. I've watched it more than once and will come back to it from time to time. Many thanks for your efforts. More like this please if you can.
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
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@NagoyaHouseHead2 жыл бұрын
I was just about to blow big money on a UAD suite. Now I have a real conundrum on my hands. Thank you Paul.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Sorry haha
@brian95240 Жыл бұрын
Man Paul... your channel has been quickly becoming one of my favorites! You're a great teacher who knows their stuff.
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
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@bedtimeread2 жыл бұрын
I think its time to start emailing these companies with a screenshots of plugin doctor and the results of their plugins.. I know what to do this weekend. Thanks Paul!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
I very much doubt you'll get a reply. If you do it will most likely be a cop out blaming doctor or going on about cpu balance and how this is something that doesn't get brought to their attention and they have lots of big engineers who have never complained about it etc etc
@bedtimeread2 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird I agree, but there are a couple of things that can be done and you have already started with the 1st one, making people aware that this is a problem.. and this will get people like me to start to get active in pushing for developers to build better codes as soon as the demos become available for testing. Anywho, I do personally thank you because your videos have answered so many questions I had and I really appreciate that. All the best to you and your fam!
@Stormsurf0012 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much Paul - Those audio samples of aliasing really helped me understand the mess I was creating by using certain un-named plugins.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Glad I can help 🤓
@PurpleMusicProductions2 жыл бұрын
Same here. I immediately removed it from my setup.
@anissbenthami2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for unmasking UAD through Plugin Doctor I was waiting for someone to make a video like this. Those UAD guys should find another argument cause they don't have good modeling technology
@the.night.music.channel2 жыл бұрын
No way!! I've been waiting a long time for this. Thank you Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@terryshaifer68312 жыл бұрын
Great video! Keep up the good work. I think you should also make a video testing actual music with aliasing while adjusting the aliasing effect. Not all levels of aliasing are detrimental to a song, it can sometimes lead to a desired outcome. Its very difficult to judge the true outcome when analyzing pure sign waves as no song would be composed of a singular sine wave.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Already got videos showing the difference in waves plugins being oversampled from 48 to 96k. I could pick the differences out in blind tests 🤓 There is going to be another video showcasing what waves plugins should sound like as they seem to be the worst for it. Only way it'll work is on the plugins that have a relatively flat linear response as oversampling frequencies past their supported sample rate will cause multiplying of frequencies so I need a relatively flat response for it to work but there are enough there. Did one yesterday on Puigtec over a mix and it was actually shocking now much masking the aliasing added. Muddyness, harshness, lack of punch. Night and day when you remove all the aliasing it adds
@agotla5 ай бұрын
Fantastic explanation of aliasing. Thank you so much.
@PaulThird5 ай бұрын
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@ThePlanarchist2 жыл бұрын
Excellent. Well explained and interesting on the demos, understanding "fully" some bits that were maybe a bit hazy before....will now go and play. Then I'm going to find a hardware manufacturer to make me analog gear that aliases like digital cos you know it's going to be the next thing. This is from someone who grew up on analog gear, was glad to see the back of most of it only to find digital versions...... ;)
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
It's like anything else. The more you understand your tools, the more you'll get out them. Understand the limitations and be the dog wagging the tail 🤓
@CraigHlavka2 жыл бұрын
thank you! you're all about the facts and sifting through the Bull. Appreciated it!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@Gilwtt2 жыл бұрын
Paul this one is a terrific one. Seriously it helps a lot!!!! So I will say say and without any kind of aliasing doubt: THANK YOU!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@Spikeypup Жыл бұрын
Another great video! Thank you so much for this dive on H/A, it has really proven beneficial to my line of thinking and how i'm going to approach this next album. It's already sounding cleaner than anything I've ever produced thanks to your insights about all of this "stuff" lol :) Great stuff mate, thank you so much for your time and effort and your no bullshit approach. Love it!
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
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@NealMiskinMusic2 жыл бұрын
My top 5 Waves plugins... 1. F6 DynamicEQ, it's just a super handy tool for taming resonances and tightening low end, super great. 2. Abbey Road Plates, this is definitely one of my favourite plate reverbs. 3. L316 Multiband limiter. I don't do a ton of mastering, and I don't go out of my way to make masters excruciatingly loud, but sometimes I do want it LOUD and this plugin goes to 11. 4. Element synthesizer. This is great when I want to quickly dial up some kind of synth patch, it's nothing super fancy, but it works and I can tweak it to sound right pretty quickly. 5. Electric88 virtual Fender Rhodes instrument, it's one of the better sampled Rhodes instruments I've come across so far. No match for the real thing, but still very usable. It almost captures the dirtiness of the real thing.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@natura808 Жыл бұрын
Nerdy enough for me, thank you!
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
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@DavidDiMuzio2 жыл бұрын
Great video Paul. Thanks 🙏🏼
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@leekeegan15602 жыл бұрын
Brilliant video! So informative! Would love to see soundtoys plugins in these tests!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Tbh Ive got a list as long as my arm haha maybe one day but they have been done to death on YT
@yikelu2 жыл бұрын
FYI, UA are pretty transparent about the fact that their Legacy versions have no THD, so absolutely no surprise on the Pultec Legacy section.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
I know but how many people actually know that? Especially when tons of legacy plugins come with the pcie cards. Honestly you'd be surprised. people would actually argue with me saying that about the legacy plugins unless I showed it 😂
@yikelu2 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird haha people are amazing aren't they. Straight from the horses mouth/website and they don't believe it.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
That's why i need to prove everything I say now. Honestly in this community you give an inch somebody will take a mile. You've gotta be pretty careful on YT especially if your starting out
@umanoid15232 жыл бұрын
I have the UAD legacy plugins with one the UAD2 pcie card. I pulled the card over a year ago since i never used the plugins. To be honest I never liked them and used them occasionally. I never even understood much about the whole analogue emulation and why a Pultec was supposed to be special. Until I started watching your videos and others on engineering and mastering. The science of music and sound! What do you think about genres of music that intentionally add aliasing like lofi using old sampler emulations ? Its also used in Synthwave. I just picked up the SQ80 plugin from Arturia and to my ears it has all the grainy digital nasties the original had to its sound.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
It's all about the understanding. As you said it's a sound for certain genres but you know when it's applicable. That understanding allows you to use it as a tool compared to not knowing at all. Gives you more control as an engineer. I avoid audible aliasing like plague but there may be a time where it just works but I'm in control of the aliasing, not the other way round if that makes sense. I can choose whether it's there or not. I know what plugins cause it and how to control it. If anything it gives you more knowledge about how plugins work which I think gives you a better understanding of your tools which is invaluable in itself 🤓
@NikolausBrocke2 жыл бұрын
Again a great video where even professionals can learn a lot. What do we learn? Stay away from the plugins with the big marketing budget! : Waves, Plugin Alliance and UAD.
@TheMonkBeatsOne2 жыл бұрын
honestly I didnt get this message, which is just a semplification.
@NikolausBrocke2 жыл бұрын
@@TheMonkBeatsOne ?? It's easy: The big three selling (some) products that don't do what they claim to do. The proof is here in this channel and in other channels too (Dan Worral).
@TheMonkBeatsOne2 жыл бұрын
@@NikolausBrocke Sorry, Sir. But I would specify 'some products', and you didn't in your first message. And we are talking about analog emulator plugins: other Waves' products are top of the game since 30 years. Same for UAD: they did the best possible for their legacy products. Also, we saw that Helios [for example] could be bad sounding when pushed at its limits, but when used in basic situations it could sound good, same for Waves 550B [I don't use both]. They both have to do better marketing and better plugins now, yes. But what Paul is teaching us is: analyse the stuff you use, possibly before you buy, then use it properly even having a scientific look at the settings you tweak. That's not an easy "big sisters cheat on [some] plugins". Sorry, Sir.
@TheFriedSky2 жыл бұрын
Great video Paul, keep it up! But also: Just wait twenty years. Everyone will say: let's try and recreate the sound of the 2020s. If you truly want to emulate it you will need: aliasing. People in the past tried so hard to make everything as clean as possible. Now we're looking for the dirt and wrongness :). Just look at all the tape and console plugins. All I'm saying is: Aliasing is a sound! Just try and enjoy it :P
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
I'll never enjoy aliasing.. I REFUSE!! 😂
@SanctusKain2 жыл бұрын
I agree with Paul here. Aliasing is all that is bad about plugins. Noise and randomness in curves is relative. @Paul Third said in a comment in last video that or even in the video maybe that they capture hardware at their peak performance. And that is amazing. If we wouldn't have aliasing all the hardware emulations would sound better than the hardware.
@ramspencer54922 жыл бұрын
Aliasing isn't even a good way to get a nice nasty digital distortion if that's what you're after..... Nobody is going to miss it off it goes away.
@mathyoooo22 жыл бұрын
I mean aliasing can work for special effect type sound design, but in general it just makes things sound muddy imo.
@soundeducation55542 жыл бұрын
The frequencies of aliasing have nothing to do with the frequencies of the music - so totally unmusical. Nobody wants that.
@delorusclaiborne3274 Жыл бұрын
You demystified a lot of things for me in this video thank you 👍
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
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@fancha831 Жыл бұрын
very comprehensive, thanks
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
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@trayoibry82462 жыл бұрын
very good video 🙏 the ending really helped me
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@Big_Stewdio2 жыл бұрын
Paul, another cracking video although I've ended up in geek hell. This is the third or fourth time I've tried to understand aliasing but watching your video is the first time that all the pennies dropped. So, I thought I'd test out my plugins to see which were behaving and which weren't and I was surprised to find that most of the ones I use were pretty good. However, things started to go wrong when I loaded up my amp sim, cranked up some marshall type crunch and put a 10k test tone through it. OMG, it was horrific (in terms of aliasing) and that set me off on the road of downloading and trying just about every amp sim available to see if I could get a better result. And I couldn't. Even those with alleged 16x (!) oversampling still had horrific aliasing. However, on further inspection I found that most of the amp sims were okay up to around a 4k test tone but then they started to struggle, although in very different ways. I also found that many of the amp sims worked very well on a test tone which was "exact", i.e. exactly a certain number of Khz. So they coped well with a 5k test tone but went crazy with a 5.01k or 4.99k. Maybe putting a sine wave through an amp sim isn't really very fair but if those aliasing tones are there on a sine wave then they must be there on the guitar parts although that's proving harder to hear. Okay, back to test out some more stuff - thanks for filling my Monday!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
I did try to make it as simplified as possible as it really bent my head at the beginning so glad that it helped. In regards to guitar amp sims. It's actually a future video idea as I found the exact same. It's actually led me to the point where I'm thinking that all amp sims are a bit of a lie. Ive not tried it yet but I was going to stick an amp sim though a DI and see if it affected the tuning due to all the unmusical frequencies being added. If that's the case then all amp sims are actually making our records less musical as opposed to recording them through amps and mics. Was Contemplating running a few drive pedals as a hardware insert to compare the difference between the sims aliasing and the pedals true harmonics. Honestly I don't know why everybody isnt talking about it tbh
@Big_Stewdio2 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird, you and Dan Worrall have a way of telling me things that I already know but in a way that makes me finally understand what they actually mean. I've only found your channel recently but you're doing a great job - keep going. I thought I must be doing something wrong with the amp sims because I just couldn't believe what I was seeing in terms of the aliasing. I'd be really interested to hear what you uncover because I've drawn a blank (in technical terms) and just can't understand why the aliasing is so .... egregious! I'm sure you're way ahead of me but in case it's useful I tried out presonus ampire, audio assault blacksun, mercuriall spark, neural dsp fortin nameless and scuffham s-gear. For those that did have optional oversampling I turned it up to full (that's allegedly 16x on the blacksun) and still got horrible aliasing at anything much more than 4k and, as I said, often in the inbetween frequencies. So even when 4k was fine, 3.99k often wasn't. Even more bizarrely, moving to 96khz sample rate didn't seem to help much so maybe those harmonics that are being generated just keep on going?! I'm going to be honest here and say that even though it was very obvious on a test tone, it wasn't night and day obvious on actual guitar tracks. But I only had a cursory listen so I will be very interested in what you find out. It certainly seems that amp sims are "technically" awful with horrible aliasing but I wonder how much difference that makes to the sound.
@gibson2623 Жыл бұрын
Excellent, as usual. I did learn something....Thank you Paul ;)...Was a joy to watch ;)
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
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@SimonLarkin-CSRecording Жыл бұрын
Thanks for all the work you put into thus video. So well explained, thank you Paul.
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
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@dahlhousestudios3 ай бұрын
Great vid! I forgot about that Access Analog service. Got to try that out. I'm increasingly needing to test plugin emulations (and their often wild claims) for my video reviews. Thanks for this!
@PaulThird3 ай бұрын
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@dahlhousestudios3 ай бұрын
@@PaulThird Have you kept the Access Analog service? Do you / did you use it often?
@PaulThird3 ай бұрын
Not used it in well over a year. I don't get any benefit from analog
@dahlhousestudios3 ай бұрын
@@PaulThird Right! Good to know. Was sure handy for comparison tests though. Thanks for the replies. great vids.
@ramspencer54922 жыл бұрын
Really important stuff, IMO, mate! Good on you for the video! Thanks for covering it.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@aroldmusicstudio82812 жыл бұрын
Good video. Regarding aliasing and OS, I have to say... OS is not free of issues. I've tried by doing some mixes replacing my plugins with all oversampled ones. Yes, the mix sounded cleaner but... OS may turns the transients weird, smearing those. Like an "unnatural" sound. At the end of the day, the key is finding the balance for me. I guess each company implements the SRC in a certain way, and with some plugins, as least for my ears, some OS sounds weird. However, aliasing is something that must be taken into account, especially with saturation/overdriving/distorsion plugins.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Yeah oversampling is something that I'm thinking about. Trying to find plugins that oversample using different techniques and then see if we can compare any audible differences between them. Or something along those lines
@perrykeshahwalker53212 жыл бұрын
Can you give an actual musical demonstration. I appreciate the single tone example but how can you recognize in an actual musical composition with multiple instruments playing. Thanks and love the scientific approach.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5zSYniLidxpd8k That's a good example
@andreievkalupniek5717 Жыл бұрын
Very cool to compare it to real gear! Good job on this!
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
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@JoHouse533 Жыл бұрын
Regarding your final comment about aliasing not existing in the analog domain: That's technically not true as you can hear aliasing in bucket-brigade delays pushed to long delay times, and it can even be a cool sound if used deliberately. But of course these delay chips are essentially "half digital" already - discrete in time and continuous in amplitude. Great video!
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
Yeah I remember reading about digital pedals and finding out that they had sample rates just like daws, normally 44.1, which caused them all to alias when pushed into distortion. Anything that requires a sample rate to reproduce an audio signal is using digital processing. Dunno what you'd class some of those pedals as.. Hybrid? Haha
@JoHouse533 Жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird I guess it's semantics, but most people would consider something like a Deluxe Memory Man an "analog" delay... Even though the bucked brigade circuit has a sample rate and a clock, so it's essentially a very early form of digital processing. I think they marketed it as "solid state" at the time, in contrast to tape delays. Modern digital pedals with a proper converter and processor are a different story. Looking forward to a potential future video on amp sims. I love my Helix modeler, but technically it probably aliases like hell. Does that mean my ears are broken? Or did they manage to control the aliasing artifacts in a way that in the end is registered by listeners more as uniform noise and not un-musical?
@leadersoundproductions46662 жыл бұрын
Absolutely brilliant. Thank for making these videos, you're a legend. Thank you
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@MixedByDotRob2 жыл бұрын
Super good video, Paul! Keep up the great work! 👍 Maybe the guys at Waves and UAD should watch your channel so they finally learn something ;-)
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@edwardx.winston5744 Жыл бұрын
The irony here is that Paul may be putting even more money into Waves owners’ pockets. “New update version with oversampling! Renew your WUP membership today!” At least they half-heartedly tried to do this in the BB plug-in released recently. Although the higher oversampling options are broken, the 2x works. If one records tracks @ 96k, oversampling @ 192k should work out fine. … at least that’s what I’m telling myself after dropping $25 on it. 🤦♂️
@mrslickbeats2 жыл бұрын
such an informative video, will be coming back to this one, very interesting
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@ChrisLandis2 жыл бұрын
This was truly excellent. Thank you for putting this together! I only wish you could've put the updated UAD Pultec emulation next to the legacy to compare. I know you've previously endorsed the updated UAD Pultec in an earlier vid as an accurate emulation, but I am curious of how it compares in terms of harmonics and aliasing.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
I know it's annoying. That's the problem with demos.. They expire unfortunately haha plus UAD have never reached out to me so it's probs gonna stay that way 😢 I mailed them twice over the course of the year but never got a reply. Guess I'm stuck with what comes with the pcie card
@perhoier28812 жыл бұрын
You can contact UA about a demo reset.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
I'll try again but I got bumped the last 2 times 😢
@lmc482 жыл бұрын
Thanks Paul for a very informative presentation.Job weldone.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@fernandoortegacomposer2 жыл бұрын
Thanks a million for this video. I finally understand aliasing. THANKS!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@lmpcrew2 жыл бұрын
Great video buddy, great explanation, on the UAD legacy defence, it's noted that those are more DSP friendly due to the removal of the analog harmonics. But the Aliasing on this Helios mic pre 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
I think cause many don't test plugins before buying many devs have purely been lazy in many plugs cause they want to maintain the friendly cpu/dsp sales pitch. Shocked at UAD though. Expect a lot better
@andriesdelange68812 жыл бұрын
Well explained & tested, thanks for that, very informative indeed!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@Imperceptible_parachute2 жыл бұрын
Great explanations,Paul. Thanks!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@ayesadler3 ай бұрын
I record with the Helios UAD emulation quite a bit and learning how much aliasing is in it is shocking, I have been DESTROYING my recordings :/ thanks for the knowledge fr
@PaulThird3 ай бұрын
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@mortalflower12 жыл бұрын
That was quite useful and well presented!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@bradferguson98402 жыл бұрын
You're kind of like the Superman of plugins... fighting for truth, justice and the analogue way.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
I do have my enemies as well though. There's a few lex luthers out there who want to take me down 😂
@buhlir Жыл бұрын
I learned a lot. Thank you!
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
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@theemptyhallstudio6 ай бұрын
Thank you, fantastic video.
@PaulThird6 ай бұрын
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@PurpleMusicProductions2 жыл бұрын
This was extremely helpful.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@warpacademy Жыл бұрын
Very well put together video with excellent demonstrations. A great demonstration of the theory. If I could offer some constructive feedback...what I found missing was any realistic demonstration of how this sounds on actual tracks, busses or program material. You say "Imagine what this would sound like on...". Why are you leaving it up to our imagination? Theoretically, aliasing is bad and noticeable, sure. But nowhere in a real mix is a plugin going to be put on a pure sinewave test tone. I realize this was already a long video with a lot of ground to cover, and you did it well. That said, showing us real world examples of this theory in practice would have been more valuable than all the visual analysis and sine sweeps. We don't listen to music with our eyes. Perhaps you've already done this, so feel free to link in a video if you've covered it elsewhere.
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5zSYniLidxpd8k Done a few more videos with examples of aliasing as well but that was a pretty good one if I recall
@RachEspinosa2 жыл бұрын
Great Video Paul, thank you very much!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@heronislandstudio80542 жыл бұрын
Great video Paul! It would be great to see how much changing from 44.1 or 48 to 88.2 or 96 makes to the aliasing on some of the examples you showed. I'm guessing moving from 44.1 to 88.2 would reduce it as much as 2X oversampling? Or does it work differently than that when you're oversampling internally in the DAW? Thanks again for your great videos.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Same thing. Oversampling a plugin x2 at 48k is equivalent to loading the plugin in a 96k session
@heronislandstudio80542 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird Cheers
@marekvoosen2 жыл бұрын
The fire cobra oversampling is made by Meldaproduction as far as I know. Melda plugins do the same job in oversampling. Maybe you take a look at these tools.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Dunno.. I tried their msatutator and wasn't near as good as cobra. However msatutator is free so it's a tough one to call. Just tried out Tbpro audio gsatplus.. Now that is a saturation plugin. Free, no aliasing at x4 oversampling and has a random mode where it manipulates mid and side harmonics in real time. Gives it that proper random non linear behaviour. You can choose between odd and even harmonics as well and boost to taste. Honestly why these sorts of plugins aren't more in the social eye is beyond me. All the gearspace guys had a massive say on this plugin so it's been thoroughly vetted. And it's free while the new SSL fusion drive is £200+.. Its like nobody's interested unless it's got an analog face plate 🤷♂️
@talktokale2 жыл бұрын
This was incredible. Thank you!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@gffWillie Жыл бұрын
That was raj (or 'nae bad' as we say even further north than you are)! As an ageing guitarist who'se developed an interest in sound recording, this is all new to me, but very much appreciated. So would you recommend analog rather than plugins, if one can afford it?
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
In regards to heavy saturation you need a plugin with lots of high quality oversampling. Melda has one of the best OS algorithms and their amp sims and distortion based plugins make aliasing not a problem as they can go very high without completely ruining the phase. But for really really high gain stuff, amps and pedals will always be best id say. But analog pedals, not digital pedals which you can find here and there
@Il_Daddus2 жыл бұрын
Very useful video, thank you so much 🙏🤙
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@bikesandbeats46932 жыл бұрын
Great video
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@paulf98142 ай бұрын
Hey Paul, great video! I have enjoyed watching your content and the podcast over the last few weeks. I would like to comment on this video in the spirit of us all learning this fantastic trade. Pro-Q3 should not alias; it is a linear processor that does not generate harmonics and thus signals above Nyquist - I would retest this. To defend UA Legacy plug-ins, the Pultec, for example, was released in 2002. There was no DSP power to model clipping behaviour then, and analogue behaviour modelling has advanced significantly since that time. In the Helios 69 example, you were driving the Mic pre-amp with a line-level signal. This would sound awful. Even with the analogue hardware, the VU would be pinned as it is probably receiving a signal 30 dB or so higher than expected. Additionally, there is no gain compensation; if you are driving the input of an analogue processor, you should compensate for the output - it is a shame UA did not add a clip light, I have suggested it for quicker workflows but correct gain-staging avoids clipping in any event, so I understand why they do not. A little tip for future analysis videos; remember harmonic saturation is a result of non-linear behaviour (a non-linear transfer curve); therefore, it is good to view the oscilloscope for clipping behaviour: odd-harmonics = symmetric clipping; the greater the even harmonics, the more asymmetric clipping. Low-ordered equals softer clipping behaviour, and higher-order harmonics equal harder clipping behaviour.
@PaulThird2 ай бұрын
Proq isn't aliasing. It was just being used as a spectrum analyser. That's why it was after the plugins, cause it's completely linear and has no passthrough or colouration, so I can use it's spectral graph without changing the sound. This was like 3 years ago or whatever when I was first figuring all this stuff out so I didn't even know what span was. The problem with the helios is that they have added the pre amp as an option which people will just switch on and use without knowing what it does. but I get what you mean about the clipping as today I would've checked the dynamic ramp for clipping so I could see if it was clipping causing the distortion, which we both can tell now that it's what is occurring as the arturia neve 1073 does the same thing when you raise the input using their notches. Problem is though that the output does nothing to stop the clipping. It simply lowers the gain at the end. The arturia and I'm pretty sure the UAD helios have to bring down the ceiling of the input stage in order to recreate the analog clipping cause if they don't it'll just hard clip the daw channel. So because the clipping in the input stage clipping has already occurred the output just lowers the end level. Works the same in analog. The output stage can't stop any clipping in the input stage. So being perfectly honest, I don't know why UAD added the preamp option when there's no oversampling to combat the clipping, and as you said you are feeding a preamp a line level signal so it's a completely pointless option as the whole point of it is to add 10db of input of gain, but 10db input gain on a plugin that uses line level signals. Unnecessary as any clipping is out of control and aliases like mad. It's something that you wouldn't do in analog domain but cause they've added it in the digital domain, people will use it not understanding wtf is going on, hear it as "analog distortion" when it's actually more digital than anything else
@paulf98142 ай бұрын
@@PaulThird Ah, my mistake. I thought you were testing Pro-Q3 in the first example. Yes, the pre-amp analogue circuit clipping cannot be reduced by attenuating the output. However, when looking at Harmonic Analysis (or any level-based analysis), if the plug-in's output is +0dBFS (or not level-compensated with the input) I believe Input was -18dBFS, it does not provide an accurate reading as everything is boosted significantly. The Helios is a unison plug-in designed to be instantiated on the insert of Apollo interfaces, as well as DAW inserts, which is why the internal gain staging are different, as Mic is expecting a Mic signal and Line is expecting a line level signal. Never fun when you accidentally hit the mic, I always have the Pad enabled on default, so do not jump out of my skin, lol.
@LittleStudiosOnline2 жыл бұрын
Cakewalk by Bandlab has built-in plugin oversampling up to 384k. This is plugin oversampling, independent of the project sample rate.
@KEI-um1kc11 ай бұрын
Reaper DAW has this per plugin oversampling as well
@mmcb51992 жыл бұрын
Great vid mate really enjoyed. If you take printed the 10kHz tone with +30dB and +70dB and bring them back in then you could do a null test with them. This would leave the aliasing right? Maybe needs level matching or transparently compensating for the boost with Q3 to properly null everything but the aliasing
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Yeah it's a good idea but it's flawed as you'll also hear the added harmonics in the null as well. However you've gave me an idea to oversample, print and do a null test vs original without oversampling. That would leave you with the aliasing 🤓
@mmcb51992 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird haha yes that would make sense! I was just thinking it would be good to actually hear what different types of aliasing sounds like opposed to seeing it in a parametric eq or the spectrogram and just flat out saying it's gonna be bad. also it would be interesting to hear what the aliasing that bounced back i.e. curved back round such as in the rueletec eg did @10:28 compared to the fucking mess of helios which was more to the left of the base fundamental harmonic @23:09. if that makes any sense!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
I'm thinking a test per developer where I pick their worst ones and show the difference when you oversample. Something like that
@eaccin2 жыл бұрын
Great video Paul!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@DashGlitch2 жыл бұрын
brilliant as always
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@StepanTrnka2 жыл бұрын
Paul, you're my new hero! Thanx for a great video. I've got a question. Could I get rid of (some) of the aliasing rendering my projects at 96k? If so, what about downsampling it back to 48k? Thank you.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Nope has to be done on the track itself. Rendering the project at a higher sample rate purely upsamples the master channel and has no effect on the tracks
@andrehines2 жыл бұрын
thank you for your service
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@UriKleinman Жыл бұрын
Great video! thats Paul. Can you please show us about the Fab Filter Saturn 2 and aliasing?
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
That's got oversampling has it not?
@ReckDemon2 жыл бұрын
Could've been so nice if you uploaded a link for the sweep and the 10k sine tone. That's been really helpful. I'll have to go through my plugins checking what's up now. Btw, do you think the very same method should be applied to plugins that don't emulate analog gear?
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure every daw has a sine tone generator. That's what I do in protools. Highlight a section on the time line, audio suite and then generate a sine tone
@ReckDemon2 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird Thanks for your reply! I thought of it actually. I use ableton so I'll try to make one with a stock synth. What about the sweep? Should it be an automated Sine getting pitched or something?
@mixphantom01012 жыл бұрын
So... how're you feeling about analogue gear these days? 😉 The deeper you dig the more you'll see why us "old skool" guys are devoted. All the hardware I own is modern and has virtually no harmonics unless you overdrive it... I actually think the quest for "analogue sound in digital plugz" has prompted devs to overdo the harmonics - which, of course, makes aliasing more of a problem! (which is probably why UAD and Waves chose not to add harmonic overtones as they are guaranteed to alias!) Anyway, good job exposing the digital plugin's "dirty little secret"!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Yeah Im glad you confirmed the harmonics thing cause I was printing sweeps of a lot of gear like.. "these are relatively clean.. Wtf" haha
@akagerhard2 жыл бұрын
while I agree on the "overdoing harmonics part" in plugins - I can't agree that "old skool guys" are devoted to analogue gear. Some are, some aren't. To me these videos do not prove analogue superiority at all.. these videos simply share a light on lazy plugin-developers.. there are more than enough plugins that compete or even best analogue gear - and that's without talking price-range and maintenance-cost. The BlackBox Plugin for instance cracks at a point that you will never, ever, ever, ever come to in a real mixing-situation... if you'd use settings that hard any scource would sound horrible.
@matt_nyc_audioengineer2 жыл бұрын
Hey Paul! Great vid, thanks man! Just wanted to tip you off. They are about to come out with RX 9. If you buy 8 now you get 9 for free. Or maybe it's if you pre-order you get 8 for free. Not sure but it's one of them. May be worth the upgrade for you. :)
@matt_nyc_audioengineer2 жыл бұрын
Ok, just checked. You get 9 for free if you buy 8 now.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
How much is 8?
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
KZbins really funny with links. It's too expensive for me. I'd love to have rx9 but I'll probs just get in contact and see if I can wangle an NFR from izotope haha I have no shame in asking for plugins now 😂
@matt_nyc_audioengineer2 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird Nor should you! I'm sure they will. I write my plugins off on my taxes but I'm not sure how that works on your side of the pond lol. I get it! I'm working like crazy right now but broke, billlllllssssssssssssss........
@spheresoundscrstudio2 жыл бұрын
Awesome educational video...although...man, that's a lot of money we have waste in plugins emulations kind of useless. Lots to the garbage :/ 2021 I said bye to waves, got rid of a whole bunch of p.A, sticking to softube, some of UAD and really really starting to get Acustica Audio technology. There's something quite unique there. Cheers!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Can't remember the last time I bought a plugin haha but yeah I've wasted a lot of money over the years 🤓
@spheresoundscrstudio2 жыл бұрын
@@CraigScottFrost Not a all, what i meant is there are lots of very bad plugins out there from several companies, but the market them very well, at the end is not really what they say the are, PA has quite good unique plugs, they do, but others through time i just stop using them, did not stand out.
@evertschut2 жыл бұрын
Hi Paul, new to your channel. Your video's are really quite shocking ! If what you say is right then we're being conned into buyng expensive plugins that don't do what they should do. I'd be interested to see how some of the highly regarded free plugins from for instance Analog Obsession compare. And of course how amp sims fare with respect to aliasing. I record all my electrics with amp sims because it is so much easier and more flexible........
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
With guitar amp sims and digital guitar effects aliasing is just something that you have to accept. However neural dsp so x4 PA and Sgear do X8 do they are working on it but most cheap amp sims you'll find are riddled with aliasing due to the amount of distortion created. Amp sims is something I plan on looking at in more detail
@iam-music2 жыл бұрын
Great Vid Paul...between you, Dan Worall and Greg Scott...the main foundations are available for anyone to excel in the journey of mix. The only neg is your swearing :-) maybe most are ok...but it cheapens your amazing knowledge and great personality. I dont swear because it just doesnt feel great...but more than that...I have my kids etc around when Im watching, not always in the studio but hey its your gig...just trying to help feedback things that make stuff better. Really enjoyed this one...I bought so much of the uad up front and a couple of uad1 cards...and it cost a lot. Was never that impressed with a lot of it; the 1176/fairchild were good. After the 'consumerist' nature of UAD (and I bought powercore etc), I would warn others...never buy dsp systems; they just become a useless dongle. In the meantime so much amazing native stuff has come out. You have encouraged me to check out Abbey Road sat and VVA now...which I used a lot but never really studied it in depth like this. Thanks again
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Yeah it's hard due to my aspergers. I do everything in one take and I don't realise I've swore over an important bit until I edit haha I genuinely just go off the top of my head in every video Plus, I work in the college now with young sparks and in the middle of the whole trades department.. In Scotland..so swearing becomes as normal as hi and bye, especially when you become animated 😂 I'll try my best to see if I can limit it though 🤓
@iam-music2 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird Thanks for your response...Dont worry...I get it...would just be nice to not have to wear earbuds hehe. I use to swear like a trooper as they say...I dont really know...but just had a spiritual experience a number of years ago and pretty much never had another swear word come out since. But look, really enjoy what you are doing. I think its so important to have the background knowledge. I always like good mix to good photo/composition and HDR is almost exactly the same...where you take a wide dynamic range and balance it with composition/key/tones etc but of course its a visible language...but using the curves tool is just like a multiband and so it goes on and on. Breaking the mechanisms down into these types of modules is really good. I was horrified to try it out this afternoon on an F6 and Im not sure if I have something wrong but it is absolutely hideous for aliasing. Would love to pm you the example and see what you think...but the F6 is my first locked in plug in my templates as I use it a the swiss knife to fix issues before it moves along the workflow.
@musiccreation11982 жыл бұрын
Thanks Paul ! Do Acustica plugins perform better?
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
On the most part yeah as they are mostly pretty clean
@heartsquaremusic29532 жыл бұрын
any harmonic exciters or additive equalization of high frequencies, I try to use outboard analog gear. I figured everything else like subtractive EQ, or even low frequency boosts are OK. any important elements like vocals I will also use outboard compression.
@IamtheI2 жыл бұрын
your best video by far...
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Thank you. I did put a lot of work into it 🤓
@IamtheI2 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird what do you make of all the goofiness going on in the kit neve and noiseash neve... i did test with 10k at -18 and there was a bunch of stuff going on below 10k but it wasnt showing up as static harmonics but instead in jumping all over the place....
@davidrevan13742 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot, facts only facts :)
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@davidrevan13742 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird Do you have a list of plugins that you advise maybe? (Without Aliasing). I read the next comment below, very interesting feedback as well.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Depends on what you are looking for really.
@davidrevan13742 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird I think about classic and common usage. For instance, plugin EQ like Pultec, API, Neve, Compressors like SSL, 1176, Neve stuffs. Actually: The "no-aliasing" and nice tone plugins *starter pack* for Mixing ...and mastering why not! :) Cause you demonstrated that the major brands of plugins are not really synonymous of Professional tools. I'm thinking about Analog Access, but the costs could be high regarding the duration of a full album production.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Depends on whether you want realistically modelled or plugins that can offer you the workflow but loosely modelled.
@KhasrouhRecords2 жыл бұрын
i remember doing a test comparing daws when bouncing audio , back in 2012 the winner was logic pro 9 and the worst was pro tools it adds too much aliasing when bouncing audio
@fernandobaetajr2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info bro!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@davidperez9096 ай бұрын
"Bang! To Nyquist." Should be on t-shirt
@mikelo3032 жыл бұрын
So... it's a mirror at the end that reflects back to the pool... Interesting.
@stupidusername382 жыл бұрын
Ay, and the UA plugins were more like Dorian Gray's mirror
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Very nice analogy 🤓
@LightsandMotion2 жыл бұрын
oh man I´ve done a deep dive on your channel today in the studio, although I should really have been working. so do you always prefer maximum oversampling on everything when it comes time for mixdown? any drawbacks?
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
If my cpu can handle it max oversampling but only if im really driving the plugin hard into saturation where I'd need max oversampling. In most cases x4 should be enough. I do the oversampling in the context of the mix, not just when exporting
@CLaw-tb5gg2 жыл бұрын
I've not watched the video yet so you may touch on this, but you're someone who probably understands audio better than me: I've found you get rid of a hell of a lot of aliasing with LPFs. Before the clipping plugin makes perfect sense (the plugin isn't folding over anything in a weird way), but I've found you get a far more dramatic reduction AFTER the clipping plugin, which makes zero sense to me. Why? Running at 192 with 8x oversampling with a 12k LPF @ 48dB before and after the plugin I don't really get any audible aliasing at all even on extreme gain settings, which is nice. As soon as I turn off the post-plugin LPF though, with a sin sweep running it's suddenly the Dr Who theme.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Depends on the source and the plugin. However that's why I do aliasing tests at 10k as many argue that many sources don't make that much high frequency content to cause aliasing. The chances of you steeply filtering out highs as low as 10k is unrealistic in most cases. You can filter out high frequencies before an aliasing plugin to minimise aliasing but if you are rolling off highs purely for aliasing purposes then I would say that's not wise as you should only be filtering out highs or lows because the track actually needs it tonally. The more you start filtering especially if its steep filtering you might start incurring audible phase issues so it's my opinion that if aliasing is something you care about then gain stage your plugins and consider oversampling or working at a higher sample rate. You don't need to remove it all, just the audible aliasing. Or you do what I do and use plugins that have extremely low aliasing or oversampling options so none of this is a concern
@v99562 жыл бұрын
Hi there can i know how you setup the rx 7 to view the aliasing effect
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Just imported the printed sweep from the daw into the desktop version of RX7.
@ronnielad19282 жыл бұрын
Just awesome my dude!! How do u go about makin those sweep thingamabobs?
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
www.dropbox.com/s/8b8ttdshnyaxsp6/testtones.zip?dl=0 you can download them from Tim Pethericks website 👌
@RaunoPaananenAudio2 жыл бұрын
Great video, thanks!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@callehellstrom2 жыл бұрын
Really great episode! You really know your stuff! Who have taught you all of that stuff?? Thank you so much for sharing! I wonder how many of audio gear reviewers actually knows this level of examining gear.. I belive.. very very few.. You could be a consultant for serious reviews.. if anyone would be interested!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Mainly Tim Petherick but a few other clever engineers as well. I have a good network 🤓 All I do is annoy them with questions haha Theres still loads more to understand though. What I do is I learn so much, share it with others and use others to teach me stuff whether it be from the comments or even people stating I'm wrong. I learn from that that and then repeat the cycle. That's how I work and learn in my own strange way haha trust me there are a lot very well educated guys out there. Maybe not on youtube but they would have me tied up in knots within a few minutes haha I just bleed them dry.. But in very small doses.. I am nowhere near done with them and unfortunately for them they can see more questions around the corner 😂
@callehellstrom2 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird That's the key to any success. Throw yourself out there and learn from the best. You are the best at what you do that I know on KZbin and that is not nothing. Keep up the great work 👑
@stupidusername382 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird there are plenty on the ignore list these days. The usual first day release influencers. Funny you never see them using the software that they always claim are "game changers"
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Yeah there is a lot of that going on. I was pleased with myself as I was looking over my new single as its nearly finished. Was very pleased to see the transparency haha Sonimus Britson routing throughout, sonible smart eq, cola comp, camel pre, TimP Lbus2 & Opto 32, London acoustics telge & uad 1176 as rear bus, titanium and bettermaker combo on mixbus, neold big AL, hg2 black box, titanium cl1b, spiff, magenta pre, arturia 33609.. Blond, soothe and fabfilter in premixing, Probably a few more as well I'm forgetting but mostly everything I've said I like I use haha
@stupidusername382 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird nice one, i took a large chunk of time this morning testing based on your methodology. The results for some plugins didn't really surprise me, except for one company, TBProAudio. The implementation of oversampling was really good on his free GSatPlus. The 4x oversample got rid of all the inharmonics. Analog Obsession wasn't that great oversampled, still some audible inharmonics. A few demos from another manufacturer that i tried also showed positive results but at the expense of serious amounts of CPU.
@PharaohLawLess12 жыл бұрын
Great explanation
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
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@KariKauree2 жыл бұрын
The new "MS" version of the Black Box plugin (the one shown in this video) is massively better than the old (non-MS) version in terms of aliasing
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I was thinking that. I recall the aliasing of the original being commented on a lot
@periurban2 жыл бұрын
Here on KZbin your 10kHz tone was mashed down. I know this because I don't hear 10kHz any more, and the tone sounded more like 5kHz. You made your point though.
@patricioo1419 Жыл бұрын
Very good video, I tried to do the test but I can't get RX to show me the same image that is seen in your video,... I printed the audio of a sinusoidal signal at 10,000. Hz, if you can help me I appreciate it. I am an amateur, and I am very interested in these videos, I think there is a lot of plugin garbage going around and, worse, that the industry is endorsing them at the expense of sound quality, add to that the poor quality of streaming and mixing It's fatal,
@PaulThird Жыл бұрын
You need a full sweep. 20hz to 20khz.
@patricioo1419 Жыл бұрын
you are great, thank you very much for your answer
@Leele02 жыл бұрын
Paul, wonderful video here mate. This has really added a great deal of understanding to my musical and engineering abilities. I own a huge amount of UAD plugins and am now very disappointed at the fact that all of them have no oversampling on.... Which begs the question...... Just how good is UAD really? If im running a session with 10 of the same plugins (regardless if i record at 96k, 24bit) im still going to get aliasing.... Im so upset at this. Its just sad actually. You basically CANNOT drive the UAD stuff too hard otherwise you will most probably be adding a shit ton of aliasing
@akagerhard2 жыл бұрын
well this was beautiful. I do wonder, Paul, with your new setup... can you show us what the softube-plugins are doing now? It's weird, I never really cared about any of that.. but now I do care. I also noticed that a couple of my favorite plugins do pretty well in the aliasing department. And companies do NOT always live up to their names.. and some companies WILL surprise you. In case somebody cares, this is what I found: Eventide doesn't do a lot of harmonics, but seems clean: living up to their name. (Omnipressor, H910 Harmonizer, InstantFlanger, InstantPhaser) Klanghelm: MJUC aliases like an absolute betch. SDRR aliases too. Given their reputation that's a shame. To me personally it felt good to see this, because it kind of "reassured" me that my ears are not crap, since I consistently put them up against other plugins for a while and they always lost. I thought it was because of taste.. now I suspect it might be aliasing. Plugin Alliance: townhouse compressor aliases, but below 100db, so I guess it's okay. mpressor seems clean. alpha has no harmonics. maag4 has no harmonics (don't use it anymore, still tested it). Blackbox you've shown. SPL-Transient Designer: It's a funny funny thing.. absolutely clean if you gainstage.. but don't you dare come in hot, because it will start aliasing like you haven't seen before - and I think that's not good for a transient designer. Sonimus Britson: Channel aliases like a betch, if you drive it.. which is the whole point of the plugin. Am disappointed about that. Because here is my secret: I can't be bothered to use additional plugins in order to oversample a plugin. That means: EQs that cramp, can't do high boosts for me and all plugins with harmonic content simply sound how they sound. Waves: MV2 is clean, RBass has harmonics, but doesn't alias, Scheps Parallel Particles Air aliases a lot (never use it, never liked it), Thick doesn't, Bite aliases reasonably. Softube: I wish I knew. (So if anyone has tests on the Weiss DS1-MK3, Tube-Tech CL 1 B mk II, Chandler Limited Germanium or Mutronics Mutator: I am all ears and eyes!) IKMultimedia fairs a lot better than many people give them credit for... and you don't even need to engage oversampling-buttons. I've seen different approaches. The Clipper and Stealthlimiter seem to be oversampling on their own, the VC670 simply cuts off higher order harmonics, as does their Pultec emulation... and that's their old plugins. Note: If you thoroughly abuse Clipper and Stealthlimiter (drive harder than sounds good) they start aliasing, but newer Plugins like the Comprexxor (Distressor emu) actually solved that problem.. you can abuse it all you want, you won't get aliasing. On the other hand their Space-Delay (which I love) aliases. I wish they would implement the Comprexxor-anti-aliasing-code to all their plugins (and plenty that I don't use will probably aliase like a betch..). Also I wonder what exactly it is that their Tape-Echo (old but gold imo) does.. Harmonics are there, but if the fundamental is 10 k there's like a wide "noisebell" or something through the whole spectrum. Wouldn't call it aliasing by the looks and sound of it, but then again I'm new to this analysing stuff. Once again I wrote an essay, probably overshared. Feel free to overshare back.
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
I didn't get any real audible aliasing in Britson. How hard did you hit it? haha the way I use it I could never get any real audible aliasing but suppose I dont hit it hard enough?
@akagerhard2 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird you don't? Inputsignal at 10 kHz, -6dB, output compensation activated, 44100 Hz session: Fader at 0, aliasing peaks at 6 kHz -90dB. Drive it a bit.. fader at +4dB, aliasing peaks at 6kHz -70dB.. (some will pick it up) drive it harder ... fader at +8dB ..6kHz now at -50dB (that's audible) use drive as distortion (common thing to do on neve) .. fader at +10.8 (just below clipping).. 6kHz "reflection" is now at -45dB (very audible) Am I doing something wrong? Inputsignal at 10 kHz, -6dB, output compensation activated, 48000 Hz session: Fader at 0, aliasing peaks at 2 kHz -90dB. Drive it a bit.. fader at +4dB, aliasing peaks at 2kHz -70dB.. (some will pick it up) drive it harder ... fader at +8dB ..2kHz now at -50dB (that's audible) use drive as distortion (common thing to do on neve) .. fader at +10.8 (just below clipping).. 2kHz "reflection" is now at -45dB (very audible)
@akagerhard2 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird Okay.. I noticed something. I had it still on 44100 Hz (but that applies to ALL the tests I've done), but I actually use 48000 Hz in my DAWs. This has a significant effect on where the biggest "reflection-peak" hits. In 48000 Hz sessions the peak presents itself at 2kHz instead of 6 kHz. Just in case you tried reproducing it!
@PaulThird2 жыл бұрын
Right OK. This makes more sense to me now. If you gain stage with it then for example you go in at like -6dbfs in doctor. The Britson vu meter will be pinned in the red and make some arguable audible aliasing at like -85db. The inputs being abused. If you gain stage with it and bring the vu down to 0vu then you need to bring the fader down to -12 haha that's how much the input is too hot at -6fbfs 😅 So if you gain stage it you will find there is no audible aliasing. I'm fact it's showing - 137db as the biggest aliasing peak haha Add in the fat switch. More harmonics, more aliasing but -103db biggest aliasing peak. If I then take that and go into the red (+3vu) without it going off the meter.. -95db Then take the fat switch off.. -130db. If you keep to the real limitations of the sonimus stuff which to me is (+3vu) with the fat switch you'll struggle to hear it. Abuse it and like many plugins it'll fall to pieces. Treat it more like the analog domain and you'll get better results 🤓
@akagerhard2 жыл бұрын
@@PaulThird Fair enough, the VU-meter could have been indicating what was "wrong" here. But I didn't mind it tbh, because frankly, when I want that "drive" sound it will be pinned red everytime. Now mind you: There are a lot of plugins that do not fall apart at -6db, the better ones don't even fall apart if you drive them additionally (without compensation). (since that's the setting I used for all the other plugins too). And that's kind of my issue with this. If I go to 96 kHz sessions the Britson will not fall apart and the real console certainly never does neither. Let's say I gainstage first (PluginDoctor at -18db) and then go ahead and drive it without going off the meter that's just 2,7dB of drive.. that's nothing. What I'm saying is this: For an analogue feeling I need to be able to pin the fader to +16 (in this scenario) without getting aliasing. Distortion etc yes, but not aliasing. To be fair at +16 it peaks at -65dB which is pretty quiet.. audible, but quiet, but you maybe noticed the little x2 button that let's you drive it up to +32. I am a reasonable person, I don't see myself driving a signal more than 18dB.. which leaves us at -54dB aliasing peak. I guess the real question is: Will I feel like I need to drive it as hard, if the FAT-switch is enabled? I will only know once I've really mixed with it. Maybe that's the reason they put the FAT-switch there? Because they didn't figure out a way to get the full spectrum of what the console can do without aliasing? I'm just speculating here. PS: The idea is to PUSH plugins when testing them, right? If you do crash-tests with a car you don't test for the best case/reasonable scenario neither, do you? Of course -6 dB is not what you will usually use a plugin at.. but if you do, will it work? Am I being an unreasonable fellow here? Is it fair to expect to always come in at a fixed level and never go insane with the drive? I'm not a robot.. I like to have fun and a lot of sounds have been created by "breaking the rules".
@ReeWebster2 жыл бұрын
Hope to see those subs rise, or you get that rub from someone who can assist your mission to the next level. Deserve it.... way more than 99.9% of creators.