Understanding Rogues Rotation in Cataclysm

If you have any confusion about rogues talents and abilities or the rotations themselves I can explain a lot more over on my twitch.
twitch.tv/mattortm
0:00 Start
0:10 Assassination Talents & Abilities
2:15 Assassination Rotation
3:35 Assassination Execute Phase
4:00 Combat Talents & Abilities
6:28 Combat Rotation
8:07 Using Gouge on Combat
8:53 End

[@JaKeCaKez]

Rotation should be: Stealth - Garrote - Snd - Muti - Rupt - Muti - Envenom (use CB on 4/5 cb with cds) then refresh Overkill with a vanish and a garrote.

[@Uggibuggimuggi]

The problem with opening with a Garrote is that you won't be able to pre-pot. But is it still worth it just to get that Garrote?

[@ahetzel9054]

​@@Uggibuggimuggisure you can, pop sprint, potion, stealth, garrote.

[@ahetzel9054]

I was also wondering why he was completely ignoring garrote. Plus he never mentioned using vanish to refresh the energy buff, and you could re apply garrote. Just seems like a lot of energy gain he's missing out on.

[@Embres66]

yeah thats the correct rotation. Video is kinda a** tbh

[@Embres66]

i would also refresh garrote while using vanish

[@RetiredSlacker]

Thank you for this straight up informative video, appreciate it!

[@misha.x]

thanks for this short and informative vid gj bro !

[@WillBickers]

As a new rogue (also new wow player) this is very helpful!

[@asabadjan]

Would you take Glyph of Backstab over Glyph of Vendetta? Also do you have any rotation tips for AoE as Assassination?

[@anthonyg6083]

Best guide WorldWide

[@ProSkilllz]

does adrenaline rush increase the speed of Killing spree? is that why you use both of them together? i thought it would be wasting seconds off AR if it didnt speed up KS

[@imialbanesi1131]

If you use Muti -> SnD -> Muti -> Rupture -> Cold Blood + whatever trinkets etc you have, how will you at this stage use envenom? You will at max have 1 combo point if ruthelessness procced from Rupture (if it can), isn't it a waste? Isn't it better this way: tricks on tank -> prepot -> stealth -> rocketboots/sprint -> garrote (only if you can get behind the boss, if not use mutilate) -> SnD (with 1 combo point) -> muti -> rupture -> muti (if at 4 combopoints pop big cds = cold blood, trinkets, bloodfury, vendetta etc), if at 3 use another muti and then use envenom before SnD expires? Or am I confused about the rotation part? And what about pooling energy? Is it still worth to pool energy in order to get the maximum amount of mutilates during your envenom buff + trinket uptime?

[@shawtynoikilpeople3905]

Can you make a video going over your weak auras

[@Darkdeaths994]

have to remind you that garrote is definitely worth using since it procs your venomous wounds talent.

[@xotkflip]

redirect will carry over BAndit's guile buff

[@CallieAdair-pm6iw]

I thought you were NEVER supposed to use Killing Spree during AR as you will overcap energy. Am i fried or something?

[@declansekol6438]

If you use KS at the same time as AR and if you have zero energy, KS will be done and you will be able to sin strike before capped. Use MUST use a sin or evis into and out of it though. It's a very tight window but optimal since you'll have almost a full bar of energy coming out of it instead of an empty bar and overall the cooldown for AR starts sooner so you'll theoretically get more throughout the fight. It's extreme min maxing that you're probably safer just KSing and then ARing

[@Alcoholic_Medic]

If youi're sad that you can't prepot and garrotte at the start of a fight, pop a potion right before boss is active and then immediately do stealth and garrotte - you're welcome

[@iCdizzily]

Hi

[@mikaeleriksson7768]

combat opener looks scuffed af, why would you ever pop adrenaline rush into killing spree, it just makes you energy capped for no reason and also not beeing able to spam sinister strikes during killingspree makes you waste seconds on adrenaline rush, it should be: 1 sinister strike into slice n dice, then you work your way towards 5 combo points, when you come to the point where you dont have more energy to either use SS or revealing strike, then you instantly pop all on use cds then killingspree before you use the 5 combo points, right after killingspree, you evicerate, instantly reducing cd on ur killingspree cus of restless blades, after that you just pop adrenaline rush and go ham, this also lines up well with you beeing on yellow banduits guile and close to red one, meaning you will have 30% increase dmg from bandits guile for close to if not all of the duration on adrenaline rush! nice vid tho

[@Speknoz]

Agree, that seems like a very bad play.

[@mikaeleriksson7768]

@@Speknoz lets hope majority of combat rogues follow this opener tho! gonna be real ez reaching those 99s ;)

[@dutchiixo259]

This is correct in wrath terms but in Cata the 20% attack speed bonus from blade flurry got out on AR so popping your first AR with KS actually sims higher than holding it. This is due to your trinkets being active during your opener most of the time and using the 20% attack speed buff with KS makes it worth not holding. For the first one only tho

[@fritzschnitzmueller3768]

​@dutchiixo259 doesn't bf give a attack speed reduction? And what do you mean with "got out"? Thanks!

[@marknicklason]

@@dutchiixo259 I think we are trying to have a very black and white opinion about cata openers here. Yeah if you have on use trinkets maybe it will be good to hit ks/ar back to back. However, especially as we build more has [aka energy regen], this seems likely to be wrong. A bit of logic would really suggest an opener looking something like: SS+engi gloves into SnD. SS till you cant, pop trinkets KS SS till out of energy, AR refresh SnD if needed, evis if not...and then normal rotations from there. This lets you KS when your procs are up, not waste initial energy and AR will be active for phase 2/3 of bandits guile, while only delaying using AR for about 10s at start of fight. Granted fight durations will influence this, if you can get an extra AR in...then yeah...AR right away, possibly even before your first SS...but with all our energy proc and combo point build randomness...going with a logical flow seems appropriate. popping AR when you are at near full energy and then KS is just a HUGE waste of AR. Also as a general thought...it is pretty likely that if AR is at less than 5s remaining on CD, you should *not* hit evis, just cast another SS even if you are at 5CP, so you can immediately burn 10s off the AR cooldown after it is cast. Cata rogue dps is going to be all about the little micro things you do with your rotation so you never waste energy/combo points/CD reductions and make the most out of phae 3 of guile. Also...overlapping lust and AR isn't really good for us. Dont hold AR or anything...but definitely dont customize your rotation so that they deliberately overlap.

[@phishfacevz]

Where is sub?

[@Carejovite]

If you play Sub, you're not learning it from watching a KZbin video.

[@auetyqie836]

man, please tell me what addons and weakauras do you use?

[@Mukulukku]

So do you not want to maintain rupture on your target as combat rogue? is it just less efficient than eviscerate?

[@hoshaff5]

Restless blades reduce CDs by 2 seconds for each combo point consumed by a damaging finishing move. Rupture having a duration, and generally being a waste of DPS to refresh it mid 5CP duration, is a disadvantage to use compared to instant Eviscerate damage. Energy is abundant right now with the curent haste to energy recovery conversion. Adrenaline rush, prepot and Blood lust combined on opener will see you literally drilling the Sinister strike trying to spend energy so it doesn't cap. I'm pretty sure that at least on my rogue that is full BiS, gemmed, enchanted and reforged, I can't spend energy fast enough in the rate it recovers during the opener. So the general idea is to dish out as many Eviscerates as possible so that your Adrenaline rush and Killing spree come out of CD so you can go full beans again. Rinse and repeat

[@Mukulukku]

@@hoshaff5 got it, thank you!

[@ahetzel9054]

So question about assassination, why are we still opening with mutilate over garrote when garrote has a 60% chance per tick to restore 10 energy? Shouldn't garrote be the opening move now! Also why not use vanish to rebuff the 30% increased energy Regen and throw another garrote out with it for the chance at even more energy gain? I'm gonna have to check with simonize about the adrenaline rush into killing spree cuz that just sounds off. Idk what you're parsing but I would definitely pop CDs, killing spree, dump half energy and then use adrenaline rush because it sounds like you're going to cap your energy while killing spree is active and anytime you cap your energy, it's a DPS loss. My parses aren't the best but this just doesn't sound accurate. Even the assassination play style ignoring garrote sounds off. Maybe the damage just isn't worth the energy gains but you never mentioned it so idk.

[@mark_knight9187]

The only reason that I can think of that he's saying to pop adrenaline rush before killing spree is maybe to be able to take advantage of the increased auto attack speed in order to get more auto attacks during the killing spree window. not sure if it's worth being omega capped on energy during killing spree though

[@Darkdeaths994]

wouldnt a shiv be better than gouge?

[@Cutsc3ne]

I want ur addons or the battle text on the nameplate tell me rn pls

[@MattORTM]

www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/nameplate-scrolling-combat-text

[@Cutsc3ne]

@@MattORTM can I has ur settings for it ?

[@MattORTM]

@@Cutsc3ne Animation speed at 1. Abilities, Crits, and Miss vertical down. Auto attacks, Crits Vertical up. Embiggen crits checked.

[@treijhen]

Say you don’t know how to play a combat rogue lol gouge is 100% not a thing, at all lol, and adrenaline rush is wasted with killing spree you pop ar after killing spree

[@cozymode70]

2:38 uhm, how are you able to envenom after the last spell you casted was a rupture? And why would you want to use cold blood on a mutilate?

[@CallieAdair-pm6iw]

i was wondering the same thing

[@wuuppwuup]

ey.. what poison do you use on main, off and throw wep ?

[@MattORTM]

For both specs Instant is on the slow weapon in the main hand, Deadly is on the fast weapon in the off hand and Instant can go on the thrown if you're doing AOE damage with it and any other poison can go on thrown if you're using it to apply a utility poison. Assassination want their slow 1.8 speed daggers in their main hand now because backstab only damages with the main hand.

[@wuuppwuup]

@@MattORTM Thanks

[@ahetzel9054]

Put your fast weapon with deadly on it in your main hand and make a weapon swap macro for backstabbing at 35%

[@lukezndr]

Is this a troll guide? These rotations make no sense

[@russellf.3396]

Sub?

[@ahetzel9054]

Its not worth it until dragon soul comes out but it's also extremely difficult to play well.

[@MattORTM]

I was thinking of making a video on sub, but I know nothing about it right now as I have no interest to play it.

[@hoshaff5]

So my guildie(who's also a rogue) and I did some testing on Sub right now. At most with near perfect rotation and optimal gear it can pull around 8k on the dummy (unbuffed). As comparison Assassination and Combat pull around 10-11k unbuffed. So I guess DS wait it is.

[@russellf.3396]

@@hoshaff5 I sounds reasonable - on a doll you don’t get any extra CP (1CP/2sek) from you Honor among thieves talent and it’s impossible to keep up the intended rotation of having up Recup, SnD and Rupture by smashing 5CP Evesc. So you can compare assass with sub on a doll. By the latest simulation done by ppl on Simonise discord, the difference is like 80DPS. Which is kind of not a differers at all. Tho it’s way harder to preform 100% correct rotation on sub than on assass.

[@russellf.3396]

@@ahetzel9054 difference in DPS in P1 between assass and sub is very little (less than 100dps). For sure average dps will be higher on assass cause it is easier to execute. But the potential dps in p1 should be about the same. In p3 - ye, sub gonna rock ✌️