Understanding Shakespeare's Sonnets

[@angelicabrena7257]

Fascinating lecture that gave me light to understand the overall theme of the sonnets is the whole espectrum of love. That Sonnets are not a sequence. So happy to hear again Jonathan Bates who I have followed in Future Learn

[@mceupc]

Brilliant talk! In my modest view, Jonathan Bate's reading was highly expressive. I've enjoyed it so much!

[@falconwriter]

My goodness, what a touchy bunch! If you understood the concepts behind these guys you will find a whole new freedom that government cannot control. If only you see the pleasure behind these guys chatting. The reality is there are hiden truths in the texts that allow us to identify with and think "yes, that's right" or "good grief" the metaphors often contain images that are political if understood. I urge you to listen to Pinter's noble speech. Working and upper classes are able to connect.

[@kentroklus]

Such a lovely discussion. Thank you all.

[@ShakespeareChannel]

Fascinating discussion. Thanks for posting on youtube.

[@EmEnz1]

This is a wonderful introduction to reading the complexities of Shakespeare's sonnets.

[@shaneoshaughnessy8231]

Wonderful discussion of the sonnets by three great Shakespearean scholars.

[@CapriUni]

Love the phrase "rattle bag". That these are a collection of disparate works composed over many years makes sense to me, as the 14 line sonnet is just about the perfect length to puzzle through a single idea that's nagging at the back of your mind. And it's something that an accomplished writer could put down in an hour or two, clear the head, and get back to that bothersome scene in Act 2...

[@user-nt6ch6su2w]

13:20 1) A collection rather than a sequence 2) They went underground for almost two centuries 3) They go underground partly for publications reasons. 4) And partly because they were difficult poems.

[@tinyyuki]

A grammy is the award to the man able to sit through this, without a break or damn near boredom.

[@MrLemex]

Wonderful talk. Really good.

[@Tuxedo413]

The sonnet form is old and full of dust But yet I have to learn to write it well To learn new forms and grow is a must But I won’t learn it quickly, I can tell And so I sit, today with pen in hand Composing this sonnet with a rhyme The rhythm flows like wind at my command The abab form consumes my mind But I’m not done until I have all my lines One ending couplet, after three lanes I’ve tried to write this new form several times

[@CapriUni]

400 years ago, Shakespeare was writing in the common language of his day. Reading him is harder for us today, because our English language has changed a bit, and language *fashion* has changed more than a bit. And it really wasn't the dark ages. For boys, at least, public schooling for the widespread learning of reading and writing was already a well-established institution.

[@90fitzgerald09]

so.....which one would you do first?

[@TheLuddgang]

I would always listen to "boring" (or learned) people who know and love their subject this much..i pity anyone who wouldn't.

[@GexMoldman]

Who the hell edited this

[@shabirmagami146]

brilliant 💌

[@karenturnidge2721]

Shakespeare in Love. As adescendant of the Bard and Ann this is most interesting. Turning is another word for verse. You double helix.

[@falconwriter]

Some really interesting thoughts happening here. The emotional connectives, youth, love and spiritual welfare. Shame the camera did not maintain focus on those speaking at all times.

[@hermesnoelthefourthway]

"it is a truly great thing to slowly realize that you understand nothing at all". The bluebird. Maurice Maeterlinck

[@dancingecho3864]

this is a very helpful video.

[@unimaginative13]

I wanted to see that, I was getting really annoyed that the camera wouldn't just turn round...!

[@MrWilum]

This is fabulous -- the Sonnets so intoxicate me. I shall have to do a video response vlog to-night -- but first I must find the perfect shade of pink lipstick. Or perhaps mauve -- Shakespeare brings out the mauve in me.

[@MrLemex]

The exact dates can be pretty well dated, otherwise we wouldn't date them as such. My own area of interest, Dante's Divine Comedy, we know more about Dante the person than we do about Shakespeare and we can't say with any certainty when Dante wrote his master work. There are dates of first publications of each of the three parts but other than that there is a black hole of nothing. There are no copies of Dante's original, were did the text for the Divine Comedy come from? Same question really.

[@vetstadiumastroturf5756]

A sequence 26 Fair Youth Sonnets > 100 Prison Sonnets ( 10 chapters of 10 Sonnets each) > 26 Dark Lady Sonnets > 2 Love God Sonnets (not so much after as above) The sequence is a metaphor for a Monument. At one end is The Fair Youth, at the other is the Dark Lady, separated by 100 columns, with 2 Angels set on top. Sonnet 55 Not marble nor the gilded monuments Of princes shall outlive this powerful rhyme, But you shall shine more bright in these contents Than unswept stone besmeared with sluttish time... Sonnet 81 ...Your monument shall be my gentle verse, Which eyes not yet created shall o'er-read, And tongues to be your being shall rehearse, When all the breathers of this world are dead; You still shall live (such virtue hath my pen) Where breath most breathes, even in the mouths of men.

[@joselinbogarra]

it's more simply than it seems.. simply Sheakespeare is the love :)

[@utopiamusictv]

Greetings from London,utopiamusictv are working towards fundraising for charities and,seek to cooperate with warwickuni.Understanding shakespeare yeah-How about understanding Shakespeares mistress?

[@MrLemex]

Except that Edward de Vere died before the last places have been dated, The Tempest could not have been written until 1610 because of explorers accounts that are the clearly the main sources for it in terms of ideas, De Vere died in 1604. And the same mind that wrote The Tempest also wrote the plays in the rest of the Shakespeare cannon. You say there is no hard evidence, there is no hard evidence that Virgil wrote The Aeneid.

[@keishabruce1557]

very helpful

[@unimaginative13]

And as an English student, yes, I have spent time looking at Shakespeare's sonnets already....there really is no need to be so vicious! It wasn't even a personal attack on the Wells, I just found his expression funny. Doesn't mean I can't also appreciate what they have to say about the sonnets. What would you know about what I know? Just who do you think you are? Sorry for the rant, but your comments have actually made me so angry...

[@TheBlackcairo]

why the shitty camara zooms?

[@Jteppic]

Why Troll?

[@user-nt6ch6su2w]

12:OO 1) Elizabethan sonnets 2) Jacobian sonnets

[@MandyJMaddison]

I find that discussion here indicating that each sonnet should be considered separately and that adjacent sonnts may have been written at different time a rather odd. They are PLAINLY grouped. In some cases the meaning flows through from one to another in such a way that the adjacent sonnets do not stand alone. But, aside from that, the first seventeen sonnets are very closely associated in meaning. They have only one theme, even though it is expressed in diverse ways, and attacked from different directions. The theme is shallow; almost unbelievably shallow! You are sooo beautiful. Your beauty will fade. The only way to preserve it is to have a child. Got that? This is not, young man, regardless of how much you love your life and freedom, you need to marry and beget kids. For why? 1. You need an heir to your estate 2. You are titled; someone must inherit the honours bestowed on your noble family. 3. Someone needs to be there to comfort your old age. 4. Your parents want some grandkids, before they die! 5. There is real joy in having children. None of this is said. The sole message for SEVENTEEN SONNETS is "Have a child, to preserve your own physical beauty" It reads to me as if some bored English lecturer came up with that ridiculous theme and got all seventeen of his students to hand in a sonnet on the given subject. They ARE varied, but only in approach, not in theme. They MAY carry some beautiful lines and minor concepts, but NO-ONE is going to get anything deep and meaningful out of the first seventeen. You would do better to go online and search how to paint your fingernails, and wax your pubes.

[@AlexJones-fx5yu]

Cool video. Anyone heard of 365 Days of Verse? This guy wrote a sonnet every day for a year. Kind of crazy, but also pretty cool. He has youtube videos and a blog.

[@lmorganjr]

The English and many European countries are very appreciative for Art (i.e., poetry, paintings, sculptures, music, theater-plays). What if, many of the poetry enthusiasts had an opportunity to personally ask Shakespeare about his Sonnets before the critiques and assumptions?

[@unimaginative13]

haha, I just realised I called him "THE Wells" - see, my subconscious respect for him must be immense!

[@MrLemex]

Ask Ed, this is a dance I've danced way too many times before.

[@MrLemex]

Everyone who could read enjoyed Shakepeare's narrative poems such as 'Venus and Adonius' the Sonnets apparently just were not popular, so the fashionable people back then. Shakespeare wrote in the Elizabethan age, the Dark Age was a good 1,000 years before that, and your second question is a fallacy. Hope this helps.

[@DC_gta]

Thought the guy on the left was walking towards the light for the first 10 minutes

[@crism3075]

bro I was looking for a video to not fail tomorrows exam and now I´m more confused

[@shaneoshaughnessy8231]

Why would you say that "we don't know" who wrote the works? The historical record quite clearly says that Will of Stratford wrote the works. Scholars don't arrive at this conclusion willy-nilly. All of the greatest, most talented, and most popular Elizabethan playwrights were from the middle classes, and a lot of the evidence has been lost. But we certainly have enough to establish that Shakespeare wrote Shakespeare, despite what silly people say on the internet.

[@futurez12]

Tell us all about this "historical evidence" please; I'm all ears.

[@falconwriter]

Actually the working class could afford to see his plays!!

[@MrLemex]

Again, as much as I respect the arguments against him, as far as I am concerned, and as far as I care, Will Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him. Ultimately we don't know, and until some hard evidence comes in I'm going to be almost entirely on the fence.

[@JonnyMuckle]

What Has Prof Wells has done to enrich our culture?

[@MrLemex]

Don't get me wrong here, I respect the arguments that the poor man from Stratford didn't write the works attributed to him, I just don't accept any of them. As far as I am concerned (and care, if I'm being totally honest) the man Stratford, Will Shakespeare wrote the works attributed to him.

[@Morgana888]

Why and how did the word f*** come into the English or any other language. Can't you people use other words in respect of the man about whom we're listening? I bet no one who used that word below could rewrite their thought without using it.

[@Unknown9996]

mikeybrumbrum I'm an ordinary student. I went to a state comprehensive school and worked hard my entire life to get where I am now. I have a part time job to earn money and I am paying hefty tuition fees to the University to study, which I will pay back, along with my student loans, when I graduate. I'm not sure what your point is about Islam. I'm sorry if you've suffered in your life, all I can say to you is that opportunities are out there mate if you are willing to work hard. Chill out :)

[@animefan1929]

here for mr.sculls xD

[@falconwriter]

Pinter demonstrate the beauty of art for it's manipulating properties. You do not have to be smart to understand his view. Shakespeare connected with the public on such a complex level that we all can each identify with something from his sonnets or plays somewhere.

[@javierlobaton4055]

El problema de no conocer al autor verdadero hace imposible comprender los poemas. Son deliberadamente ambiguos, oscuros. Los poemas de Shakespeare no son amorosos. No son petrarquistas. No fueron publicados sin permiso. Una vez conoces el autor es bastante fácil comprender los poemas, por lo menos su programa y su temática. Es bastante alucinante cómo estos dos expertos en Shakespeare no tengan ni remota idea de los sonetos, que por cierto, no son los mejores en lengua inglesa.

[@mayhem7491]

Why care about who wrote Shakespears works? Just enjoy the works. If William Shakespear did not write them allow the person who put them in his name the anonymity that he/she wanted.

[@BookClubDisaster]

Pretty sure Shakespeare would give a big facepalm if he could see this.

[@lmorganjr]

True literature scholars appreciate the literature-works of Shakespeare's Sonnets, while worldly strategic men find ways to create ploys to suit schemes.

[@peapod8]

Francis Bacon wrote them in France for a woman he met at court.

[@AK32-000]

I study literature and it's pretentious as fuck. I regret studying it. I enjoy literature and read profusely, but studying it is a whole different kettle of fish. These people, less so the guy on the left, but they're scared to absolute death of missing a 'possible' interpretation. Shakespeare expressed himself through poetry, whether autobiographical or not. You can't get poetry so beautiful without it being grounded in the self, but I believe some of it is autobiographical and some is addressed to nobody, a kind of anonymous apostrophe. Settled, it makes sense and there's evidence in the sonnets. Plus he discusses the nature of poetry in some of them, which isn't fictional. A lot of these wild interpretations, cleopatra, or pandora's box or some shit, it doesn't lead back to such far fetched stuff, the guy just expressed himself through writing. Now settle the fuck down and just enjoy it, instead of worrying about missing some possible loose interpretation seeing how far removed it can be. Feel like fucking newton or somebody pissed off with useless scholasticism, cause that's all this is.

[@drunkdonutboy]

Lol fuckin a

[@astghiksebastiani1732]

+Alex Banner Settle the fuck down and enjoying it is pretty much what Benedetto Croce and the idealistic critics were doing about hundred years ago. Then somebody started understanding that if you take a closer look at things like social background of literature, political background... you settle the fuck down and enjoy your reading in a complete different way. Your perspective change! Theory of literature is like a mental gym, which trains you to read things according to different perspectives, based on the problems you consider and the questions you ask yourself.

[@Morgana888]

Interesting and I agree with you; however, why do you feel the need to emphasize with the word fuck? It lowers your standard of knowledge.

[@DE-in4wz]

What on earth are you lot babbling on about? This is Wells, Bate and Edmondson talking about the Sonnets. And you lot think it's pretentious? Ridiculous. Listen to them, you might learn something.

[@MrBillfitz]

Who 400yrs. ago could read the sonnets and understand them???? Today not more than 1 in a100 can, yet Shaksphere wrote this stuff in ,for all intents and purposes, what was then the Dark Ages. How could such a man stay sane in the midsts of such an age? (excuse my spelling) In grade 12 my teacher could read them with such feeling,Mr. F. Hennebury.

[@Unknown9996]

They don't get paid nearly as much as football players or managers, or even headteachers. It's not what you study at University that's important, it's learning how to learn and how to think critically. But I suppose we should forget about culture and learning and go back to the stone age?

[@unimaginative13]

Why do you think I watched this video the whole way through if I have no interest in Shakespeare? How dare you call me ignorant when you know nothing about me? I actually hate "drum "n" bass" and "rap" - not that this should even bear any relevance to whether I am an "ignorant" person or not. My definition of an ignorant person is somebody who can't see further than their own interests or "high" culture and jumps to conclussions about a person they don't even know based on one comment.

[@rob5894]

They certainly spend a lot of time and words trying very hard to avoid admitting that Shakespeare was gay.

[@Jeffhowardmeade]

Rob He may have been bisexual (he had children and had an unfaithful mistress) but we can't know, and never will know, for sure. Sonnets were literary exercises by their nature. Everyone who wrote them was adopting a literary persona. They were the equivalent of a modern first-person narrator in a story or novel.

[@AntTheIntenseBard3148]

I think Shakespeare was actually bisexual, if we are going to be picky

[@MellorDR]

and think some people may like (MellorDR You tube) "Amazing" Tate

[@tempest957]

Pity he didn't write one play or sonnet! He couldn't even write his own name!! Edward De Vere is the true Shakespeare and everyone except the experts knows it!!

[@tinyyuki]

AHAHAHA yea he SO does, like "Why the hell did I say i'd do this.. I wonder if I sit here and not move or speak will they even realize that i....(at 2:19) or better get involved.

[@vinm300]

LOL

[@HMShakilAhmed53]

কিরে কী কী বুঝলি? 😂

[@dannoakl]

Shallow silly discussion