Understanding Smart Electrical Panels | Ask This Old House

[@raymondmcgee4491]

Automated controls are the future/ present state of our working world and definitely have great advantages in the right situations. However, after doing electrical maintenance for an airport and a school district, it is clear to me and my coworkers that troubleshooting/ servicing electronically controlled services is a far bigger headache. I'm not an old guy", but I know the old wisdom of having fewer "moving parts" still holds true. We're one lighting strike or solar flare away from the stone ages.

[@scotttovey]

It's not just that. It's controllable from the internet. Someone at the electric company decides they don't like you chasing the bob cat away from your kids and a hack later; you have no power and no one is able to figure out why.

[@Egleu1]

@@scotttovey chasing the bob cat away from your kids?

[@Soligniari]

My biggest issue with something like that is must be connected to the Internet. That's a no go for me, I already hate the idea that my "smart bulbs" don't work if I lose my internet. Can't imagine loosing communication with my entire electrical panel.

[@scotttovey]

@@Soligniari I looked at a device a few years back that you plugged a USB drive into and it connected to the local network. It looked promising but upon further research I learned that you can't configure the device without first logging into the companies internet site. In addition to a way to log into the device, a reputable developer would have designed it so that you plugged the device into a network port, then plug the USB drive into it, and it automatically shared the drive even if the network was not connected to the internet. Needless to say; I didn't buy the product.

[@mountainbikerdave]

@@scotttovey the truth is, companies can make "smart" products that communicate within your local network. But in the personal information mining age that were in why would they? It's honestly a shame. Cause security is always an afterthought with the majority of these companies.

[@obijuan-]

I'm in the process of installing the second one, "Span Panel" in my 50 year old townhouse. Installation will be about $1500. Part of that will get help from fed tax credits as tax people have already confirmed qualifies under IRA (2022), for max of $600. With my PV and batteries, I think this will make a significant difference.

[@OriginalJetForMe]

The problem with Span is they require the use of their cloud, and they don't have a direct, locally-accessible REST API I can use to integrate it into my custom home automation. I suspect the Lumin is similar (I've sent an inquiry). I wish more people would insist on full offline functionality, and full customizability.

[@Grymac]

Thanks for bringing this up! I'm on the engineering team at SPAN, and we're actually working on local APIs. Most of us are electronics hobbyists and energy nerds in our free time, and a lot of us are dog-fooding the SPAN Panel and already have it installed on our own houses. There are several active internal projects running local APIs that have been demonstrated to the rest of the company already. We understand the SPAN Panel isn't like a security camera or cat feeder that stops working someday, you grumble and find a new one...this is literally built into your house and everything we do on the engineering team is framed in building a product that will be useful for decades. Local API is a big part of that and is important to us, especially the energy nerds on our team who have a SPAN Panel and want to integrate it into their own home automation systems.

[@OriginalJetForMe]

The other thing a friend pointed out is that the Span panel doesn’t retain its switch state across power outages. Is that correct?

[@Grymac]

@@OriginalJetForMe It uses latching relays and can sense the current relay state, so by default a full power off (rare as those are with storage) doesn’t turn anything on or off.

[@TyPaff]

@@Grymac That is good news, as I am getting a Span panel installed next week as an addition to my solar install. As a big Home Assistant nerd an open and local API is essential for proper home management. There are way too many stories of servers suddenly being turned off and devices just stop working or responding, if Span goes out of business today it would be little more than a regular panel with a pointless computer and relay system behind it. Is there a timeline when local access would be available, and would your team work to have an open API for Home Assistant integration?

[@kevinshumaker3753]

I still like the Genny panel. It was $200 installed (electrician doing final connections), I have most of my breakers feeding through it and manually control what gets fed when power is out. I am the 'smart interface'. I know what is there, I have 2 spare breakers in event of a failure, I can swap in or out what my alternate power source is, etc. I watched the episode and replacement follow-up episode where Rich placed and replaced the Hot Water heating source because it failed, and the company had gone out of business. I learned a valuable lesson. Stick to standard parts, easily replaceable, not something that can be destroyed by the inevitable lightning strike.

[@tmx1911]

I could not agree more. If the system would work it would be nice, but the added failure points that are not easily able to be bypassed make me highly apprehensive. For most of the country if you lose power you are also going to lose Internet which most likely would hinder your control of the system assuming it didn't fail 5 years after you put in it when you really need it.

[@kevinshumaker3753]

@@tmx1911 Yep, for the first time this year, in a 30 minute outage, our internet feed also failed (cable service). Power was restored at home, but no internet. Would have been bad if there wasn't the ability to control power or systems. (I also have everything internal, no cloud services used)

[@mortensonaaron]

I like money

[@jeremiahfoster5810]

The good thing about the smart panel I see is being able to monitor the power drawl. Say your HVAC fan starts working harder because of a dirty filter, you can watch the amp drawl increase and know something is wrong.if the smart board ever gets hacked or one of the relays fails you can always straight connect it and bypass the board. No sweat, and the added flexibility is a nice bonus. I like it.

[@rupe53]

@@jeremiahfoster5810 ... HVAC fan draws LESS when filters are dirty because the fan moves LESS air. BTW, DRAWL = an accent.

[@JV-pu8kx]

I was hoping to see the innards of the fancy panel.

[@Off-Grid]

Installed the Leviton Smart Panel and Breakers in our Off-Grid Home to help monitor usage. Wish it had the real time usage though. It only shows totals for different periods of time. I can turn the breakers off but not on. UPDATE: the Leviton ap updated recently and now does show real time usage in Watts. I say realtime but is delayed around 60 seconds but stil better than nothing.

[@christopherriordan9778]

Which I trust as more of a safety feature. I'd much rather have to go manually re-energize a circuit then have it show on, but need the software to activate another part.

[@scmgjm9956]

I appreciate you mention the cost of this equipment, but you glossed over the 'plus installation' part. It is also useful to have an idea of that cost as well. I know 'your mileage may vary' and all that stuff, but there has to be at least a minimum dollar figure that should be mentioned for installation. Also, how is all this sensitive electronic equipment protected from power surges and lightning? Does it come with a massive surge protector in front of it? Can you even get one that will protect something this large. And the cost of that please. Very interesting technology and something I would consider.

[@Elemiriel]

If you have ever gotten multiple quotes from independent contractors, the installation price is IMPOSSIBLE to predict at a local level, let along a national level.

[@jacobframe8769]

What can we turn off with this system that we can't just turn off at point of use? Hot water heater? Furnace? Air conditioner?

[@Nifty-Stuff]

Wow, perfect timing! The day I decided to search for "smart panel critical loads" was the same day this video was published. Must be a sign!

[@Bremend]

I'm concerned the first retrofit panel had no actual circuits to reset manually. How do you reset it when the circuit running the wifi trips?

[@Aerospace_Education]

Old comments but, the breakers are in the panel on the top. The bottom only monitors and communicates usage as well as overriding the breakers in order to turn them off. You could still manually shut them down from the breaker above and the actions on the app would not reinit the breaker.

[@8minecrafter8]

Big increase in complexity, headaches trying to replace that custom control board 25 years from now, difficulties with phone apps not being updated when a company goes out of business, I can almost guarantee subpar/outsourced software where security is tenth priority, meaning a remote attack could start flipping your circuit breakers- all for a slight improvement in functionality where you can monitor control circuits via a phone app. I'm an electrical engineer who loves technology when it makes sense- this really doesn't seem like a good idea for stuff you want to work for the next several decades. Hard pass. I really wish this video had touched on more of the tradeoffs and considerations instead of just being a showcase for the latest gadget to hit the market.

[@2024301]

Very valid points here

[@DarkRaptor99]

@@2024301 It makes more sense to have outlets or the appliances have the smart tech. Having it built into an electrical panel sounds like a huge issue when a company decides to end of life support for it.

[@danegerous24]

Or this might be all local control a la be able to fold into home assistant.

[@twentystwentythree]

Over the air updates (OTA) solves this and improves everytime engineers discover a new idea / fix

[@8minecrafter8]

@@twentystwentythree ota is awful. The last thing I want is my appliance auto updating to some doofy intern code that was pushed accidentally and now my system is bricked. Also ota doesn't matter if there's no company to push it.

[@шальныеденьги-и8к]

Very entertaining video. Glad to see it at the start of the day

[@why_do_you_want_to_know]

KISS ... Keep It Simple & Straightforward ... so anyone can fix it, not just the original installer.

[@ИгорьПономарев-п5т]

Nice material presented in this video.

[@ejamesg1]

Do any of these smart panels have an integrated display where you can do manual adjustments in the events an app goes down?

[@mylesm7947]

Recommended protection , lightning, over voltage, under voltage, ect.

[@smachsimo]

Love that the wifi is higher than fridge in his example

[@Elemiriel]

This is amazing. gotta look into this

[@ДмитрийКалинин-к8в]

Very helpful video. Thank you.

[@mddoatwest]

I'm afraid I'm in the large minority here...getting solar and a battery backup and cant imagine doing the system without this and being able to dynamically change the critical loads panel. And it saves me from needing to install one as well which lowers the true price by a couple hundred bucks

[@santiagoduran3716]

Долго искал эту информацию, спасибо, что поделился, отличное видео

[@rzh3443]

Given the few times we have lost power for more than a day, it would take 300 years for a payback on this. As a corollary caution, I purchased a two stage AC unit with a special electronic motor. Supposedly , I would save money over time. The motor control crapped out after five years. The cost to replace was my potential savings for more than 10 years. Love technology but it can bite you back.

[@tonyglinde1624]

Nice panels, nice video

[@djamelhamdia134]

You can tell Ross is Richard's son only by his moves and the way he explains things.

[@nick4leader]

I can totally see it

[@ncooty]

If we invested as much in infrastructure as we do safeguarding against failures of infrastructure, we wouldn't need so many complicated, expensive, decentralized fixes... and it would benefit everyone, not just the richest among us.

[@shawniscoolerthanyou]

Agreed. The people most impacted by power failures are also the people that can't afford these. These are cool guy toys for the wealthy homeowner.

[@garyjones101]

With smart panels all being built with wifi to cell phone management, what is being done to secure that communication link? Are the manufacturer's apps being created with a built-in VPN?

[@shawnduffy279]

You're asking about security and a VPN while using the internet to post a comment to a KZbin video owned by a company that has had data breaches before? LOL Get out of here with that nonsense. So many people asking that same question and acting like they all aren't actually on the one thing they fear the most. I find it ironic and wonder if you all are still riding horses or have central heat and AC? Why are you on the internet? lol "AHHHH this new fangled technology!"

[@theusconstitution1776]

So what if the grid goes down your cell phone has nothing to connect to how do you control the loads in your house? If you have a Wi-Fi system in your home, but that Wi-Fi system has nothing to connect to does your phone become operative? Does a smart panel, shut off?

[@khalidelbassboussi4533]

Good job

[@arturtimurov8828]

is it really worth buying?

[@stepangrandi1609]

thanks for the video

[@Ben-hb1dg]

Can I use this as an electric reader for a 3 unit single family home that has 3 sub panels but one main panel (one electric bill) to bill back per unit for the electrical use?

[@evgenijpismennyj4747]

Thanks for the video it's great

[@reaperbot5226]

I'm somewhat warry of having my home tech linked to the internet, wireless or apps. because they can be turned off by the company in question, have the data stolen or even get hacked.

[@awaara24]

yeah but they still have to break in through your wi-fi to "get in" right

[@reaperbot5226]

@@awaara24 depends if your system is connected to the outside internet or not. because then someone could hack in from any place if they really wanted to. or steal your data from whichever company service your using.

[@Embermist69]

Yeah, were there is a will. There is a way for someone. Not matter what it is, this is a old true saying.

[@8minecrafter8]

@@awaara24 If you are controlling and looking at stuff through a phone app, that's almost surely not true.

[@AidanSkoyles]

Or ten years later, the company goes bust, the app goes dark, and you're SOL.

[@richboy2831]

Thanks for the video

[@BrandtAbsolu]

Definitely an interesting product, but I would only consider it if it allowed local control + API, so I can either control it from my phone manually without internet access and tie it in to my existing automation system.

[@ваняхарламыч]

Thank you.

[@itzjoeylo4501]

Add a UPS (uninterrupted power supply) to all of your computer systems, router and or modem so these critical systems don’t skip a beat.

[@rupe53]

how quickly we forget that cable / internet can go down for an entire area when the power goes out. A built in UPS won't help there.

[@itzjoeylo4501]

@@rupe53 there’s countless occasions when our electricity goes out for anywhere between 5 seconds and 20 minutes that my connection continues to be connected and because I have a UPS connected I remain connected. Examples are, working from home connected to a VPN through my employer and while playing Call of Duty over my gaming system. The internet hub that supplies your internet connection is often not affected and is normally miles away from your house that is being affected by a power outage.

[@rupe53]

@@itzjoeylo4501 ... while this can be true, many times it is not. In my area they have gotten lazy with cable booster upkeep and the battery backup generally lasts maybe 24 hours, despite the fact that we have a firehouse on this node. (good UPS will go 3-5 days) This is especially obvious when power goes out on a main road and most of the town is dark. It's also a problem when a car accident takes out a pole and the wires / fiberoptic is damaged. A multiday outage might only happen every few years but we are all living in caves by that point. OTOH, storms like Sandy and Irene put us out for a week at a time. An ice storm we had 15 years ago did the same thing.

[@mrbill9646]

@@itzjoeylo4501 just curious do you have your ethernet lines protected for power surges?

[@jodycwilliams]

Span is $4500 for the panel alone right now. $4500 for an electrical panel without installation is absolutely insane.

[@shawnduffy279]

So $1.5 k more for a panel that does a lot more than the one they have shown here? 🤔 Sounds like a deal to me. 🤷‍♂

[@mylesm7947]

How does the NEC Regulate this integration

[@ВикторДунин-ъ8л]

Automated controls are the future definite an interesting product.

[@petrpetrov7760]

Good to see

[@Dredpath1]

Great video!

[@Дример-х5ф]

instructive video

[@викторрудых-и3т]

Very interising site, video. Okey, like

[@fikofiko9377]

thank you for the video

[@darbywestmore]

If I sell my home to an old lady who isn't interested in Smart technology, will the panel function like a normal panel with no smart tech engagement or are you required (on some basic level) to connect to and configure it? Also, if my Wi-Fi router bites the dust, is there a way to switch the smart settings from the panel? Or am I locked into the way it was configured in the app until I replaced my Wi-Fi router?

[@shawnduffy279]

All of these are able to act as a standard panel. They just simply have additional features for people who want more control OR have a backup system. IE generator/battery/solar etc. Yes. Well, mostly. It can depend on the panel. Some have a direct interface built in and some do not.

[@АлексейОстанин-о5д]

Ok! Nice things. Thanks.

[@sleepyday5658]

Very good

[@hafizurrahman7486]

very nice video

[@stanislav7887]

Nice video

[@Mavkc]

Thanks to the author for the video

[@blazetownsend8785]

Found something else that is pretty awesome. Eaton Smart Breakers. I found them, and they are a alternative to replacing the whole panel or all your switches. You can monitor the power through them, and also turn the switches off remotely much like these smart panels. It is not as all encompassing as say, the Span Smart Panel, however, they give the same functionality over the breakers they replace. The only major issue is that a single switch style takes two slots with the smart breakers, and that means you may have to consolidate smaller loads to accommodate. Looking into it, they have two types, one of which is the BR switch style that my panel already uses.

[@ВильгельмПишке]

Cool video

[@congreet_universa]

Great concept. Also, think about if we had wireless electricity which really different from solar energy.

[@romandobrov9075]

good video

[@mionaart8983]

Great concept.

[@prodramali4241]

very useful and interesting video

[@Ozzie4Para]

That looks beautiful and all. But what happens down the road if and when the company who makes the product goes out of business? The cool handy dandy smartphone control goes out the window because it probably runs through the company's servers somehow. And then what happens if one of the relays needs to be replaced and once again, if the company went out of business? Now what? You've got a pretty fancy $3500 breaker panel that's no different than the regular panels.

[@LegoTux]

Not just out of business, but the product no longer being supported by the manufacturer due to being replaced by a new product, or just abandoned due to company acquisition. Also software has a very short life cycle, so it will probably not be updated after 3-5 years from first release.

[@Ozzie4Para]

@@LegoTux yeah, I can't imagine these panels will make their way in too many homes.Their high costs aren't worth the possible risk of the product not being supported down the road.

[@hanzomain4467]

very good

[@дмитрийсытов-с2й]

Great video

[@Chris-gt7ob]

It's cool for sure, but I question the return on investment and the security. Seems like you could control your circuits just as easily by manually flipping circuit breakers and using a generator interlock, or a suicide cord back feeding into your welder/electric dryer. Obviously, some folks would prefer a safer alternative, like the generator interlock. I bought my interlock kit on amazon for $80 and installed it myself in about an hour. Cool stuff, but just doesn't seem practical in my eyes.

[@ВиталийКорякин-м7з]

Thank you for sharing this information

[@areejareej3876]

Great concept. Also

[@ДмитрийНовиков-ц1х]

Great video! Thanks to the author for the channel!

[@Sandrino1970]

Very useful information

[@ЮраШахтьор]

nice video very

[@АлексейСкрыпник-г9л]

nice video

[@migeln881]

An entertaining and positive presentation of the new product, bravo!

[@kaleb3692]

Nice video!

[@глебжиглов-е4о]

As always, it's nice to watch your video, thank you for your efforts, I'm waiting for new releases

[@coreysgmail7261]

He looked at the component of delivery of electric. Yes time of day usage is important, but now the electric companies are taking advantage of delivery, which is actually more money than the electric usage coming into your home.

[@BikR1005-t4q]

SUPER!!!///

[@ВалентинаАкулова-в6н]

Definitely an interesting product.

[@валентинавалентина-с1э]

I would highly recommend🤩

[@ChrisBurnsATL]

He said the “old school” method was to have a generator fed sub panel for 6-12 circuits. I just installed it, by myself. It’s considered old school? Wow. Think about how many American households don’t even generators or sub panels … and now it’s old school? Believe me when I tell you that my family and friends think it’s “new school” for me to have a generator fed sub panel in case the lights go out!

[@rupe53]

I did generators for near 25 years and a secondary panel was VERY common then, and now. The more common approach today is a bigger gen set with built in monitoring to drop heavy loads as needed. Of course, this is only operational on gen power, not on utility power. Basically, the old school is an "extra panel" next to the main panel. They were by far the most popular till the manual interlocks became approved in recent years.

[@иринакротова-к9к]

Interesting video.

[@adisharr]

I'm sure everything works as planned except for when the board fails, app fails, etc... Unless you absolutely need a smart panel I would stay conventional. You can easily control it yourself and it's easy to troubleshoot.

[@s.n.9485]

Yup. And a $2k installation. Cheaper just to leave everything on. lol.

[@dtemp132]

I wish this existed in a way where it was still useful off the internet. We don’t know if this company is going to be around for 30 years, providing software support for this panel.

[@MrJramirex]

Leviton has a similar panel. They use smart breakers that can be monitored and controlled by a hub. If a breaker fails you replace it in less than 10 minutes. If the hub breaks you replace it. This all in one smart panel looks to be a pain to fix.

[@adisharr]

@gdubb420gw You sound like a kid that doesn't consider the overall reliability of anything. That's cute.

[@appleforever6664]

Start getting fancy and everything goes to shits!

[@stojanstojanov9337]

very interesting video...

[@annakulikova7068]

Super nice

[@ЕленаБуря-м7у]

An entertaining and positive presentation of the new product

[@АлексейМехов-п8с]

excellent

[@olhakravchuk8648]

It is very interesting!

[@ser9651]

I also have this panel

[@МихайлоІвановичКрентовський]

Thank you so much for such a nice video

[@ИгорьКонстантинов-у3ю]

As always, it's nice to watch your video, thank you for your efforts, I'm waiting for new releases)))

[@lilisarg6678]

Very interesting

[@ИгорьЗуев-с3ф]

Good luck!

[@سامىمحمدللمعلوميات]

nice invention

[@benjones8977]

No offense fellas, but being somebody who built his own off grid system and the only thing I didn’t do since I didn’t understand how to do the panel connection to the grid. My electrician put in a switch for under 100 bucks and all I have to do is walk over to the panel and flip it on when the grid goes down! Then I have total control to flip on any breaker for any appliance I want or flip off. I guess what I’m trying to say is I don’t need to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars for the few times the grid may go down and use my smart phone to turn it on or off! Total waste of money if you ask me! 😒

[@rupe53]

you do realize that this product is for people (control freaks?) who hate going to the basement or garage to do it manually.

[@Dave-my1we]

Wait, you actually have to walk over to something? Like 50-feet and then use all that muscle to flip a manual switch? My word, that’s a LOT of work. Must take you all of 3 minutes and you might actually have to put shoes on too. Why do that when you can spend $5k to put in a bunch of “internet connected” circuitry that will fry one day? Seems like you are just some kinda Luddite and you should be ashamed. Consider this your public flogging. Manually flip switches? Such a horror.

[@mdshahedmollik]

Good project

[@АмаринаПетрова]

good project

[@ratultalukder4978]

Nice

[@mahmedmahmoud6818]

Intrsting video...i like it

[@JonMasters]

The all in one system they’re demoing is from SPAN. I know they don’t like to advertise but I wish they would sometimes so that folks can find these solutions

[@цимбал-щ4в]

An entertaining and positive presentation of the new product, bravo

[@ВиталийБагнюк]

I looked with interest.

[@alexeysorokin9000]

nice video! thanks for video!

[@pamelas3119]

The only real world practical application is for solar and wind power where regulating your load usage on your battery system is of the utmost importance.

[@SteveMcCardell]

Agreed. And yet, if you're in an emergency situation that requires you to be on backup, you can also cut down to bare essentials. Then slowly add more usage over the next days if you don't know how to calculate how much power things use. This would be fun and useful ... but if there's no kill switch to remove software control of your circuits, that doesn't seem safe. I'd like to know if there's a way to kill it if needed. :)

[@ОльгаРат-о2й]

positive presentation of the new product

[@VladKalynyn2023]

Wish it had the real time usage though. It only shows totals for different periods of time.