Understanding the Dark Side of the Elden Ring Community

[@Mugthief]

Two quick things, 1: Extra shoutout to my patrons Hunter and Dodger. This video was uploaded a bit ago, before they joined, and they're not up on the Patron wall for it. My apologies, and my thanks. 2: Noah Gervais uploaded his review of Shadow of the Erdtree. If you appreciate discussions on things from unique perspectives, even if you might disagree with them, go show him some love. I haven't watched it yet, but I'm sure it'll make me think. Much love, keep enjoying games.

[@sasanr1]

Bro u should have balanced the video with other side too . The people who ask for easy mode and nag non stop about how unfair the game is and the boss is broken...

[@sasanr1]

Get good community may be annoying enough for u to make a video but they are not harmful as much as the other nagging group . Many creators will change their way just bcs they are afraid youtubers like asmongold uninstall their game bcs its too difficult and less accessible U think Lord of the fallen gets mix reviewed by get gooders or naggers

[@sasanr1]

Also accomplishing less is ok . Just accept u r not as good as someone else . I can't no hit a boss bcs I'm not as good as no hit runners yes they accomplish more and are better also doesn't mean i didn't play better than the summen using sheild huggers

[@LazarusBell]

"You can't criticize this game if you've never made a game!" You don't need to be a chef to know the food tastes like 💩

[@kennethfocarino7075]

Yep, whenever someone says that, this is my go-to analogy. “I don’t know how make Lasagna, but I can still tell the difference between a nice restaurants attempt, and Stouffer’s.”

[@JoseViktor4099]

There are people who actually said that?

[@Xeymaric]

I agree, with the little nuance of some critics attacking performances, game design, technical stuffs, without taking account of a studio means, conditions of development etc .. or when people have unrealistic expectations, like if the Devs could have died to crunch to deliver their dream game

[@BEARDEDSLOTH802]

​@@JoseViktor4099yep

[@richardjamesIII]

Some people love oysters, some people will die if they eat them. Not everything is or SHOULD BE for everyone. Life would be so god damn boring if it was.

[@rohansensei5708]

Funny thing is none of the actual challenge runners are berating anyone for not playing like them but just the randos that finished the game once and thought they were gods for achieveing such a ''feat''.

[@BBQcheese]

☝️ this

[@sneaky5141]

THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS

[@Wintertier]

a wise person (one of those very successful challenge runner) once said: The people who know fromsoft games best and are the best players, never belittle other gamers or playstyles. They just do their thing.

[@crestfallenhussar895]

It was actually so refreshing to watch the challenge runs start to come out. Everyone was telling me the DLC was a flawless 10/10 and I felt like I was crazy. Sure it had a lot of great thigs and I was having fun but there were definitely things that felt wrong. Challenge runners would actually say "yeah this boss or attack sucks." "yeah if you die here, it's pretty much bad rng"

[@ETBrooD]

@@crestfallenhussar895 The challenge runners are speaking from their own perspective. Fromsoft doesn't create these games for them. They just respect the challenge runners and try not to deliberately mess with them. That's about all. Elden Ring was made for casual players. That's why there are so many mechanics that reduce the difficulty. The game is around 90% fantastic and around 10% bad.

[@kennethfocarino7075]

The reason why people do this is because they know deep down that no one in there real life cares that they beat Radahn in their underwear with a boxing glove. They need to artificially make their meaningless effort worthwhile by getting snobby to random people on the internet. It’s all an appeal to make themselves matter, just like most toxic things on Socials. Let Me Solo Her is theoretically the pinnacle of this kind of person. His effort made him a legend and he was immortalized by FromSoft. He’s the only one that really got the reward everyone else is chasing. But… LMSH is actually a cool dude. When he was “coaching” AfroSenju, he told him to get fragments, use summoning, co-op, whatever the game gives you to have a reasonable experience. Afro was even taken aback by what he said, he legitimately told Afro in no better words that he’s giving himself a hassle. I beat Radahn, at lvl 305, scadutree 17, with mimick tear and Katana Bleed. And I had a great time. Why am I a pussy for using that stuff, but Miyazaki isn’t pussy for putting them there? What forever rubs these sweats the wrong way is that they and I both beat Melania. Neither of us used game-breaking glitches and exploits, just what the game provided. But they spent 30 hrs to do so, and I did it on my fourth try. Technically I’m better or just as good at Elden Ring, and they can’t fucking stand it.

[@Loctorak]

100% agree. I never understood it - the game contains an array of tools and mechanics, and it should be up to the player which of those they choose to utilise and when. They aren't "cheats" or "easy mode" or "cheese" - to say that is to oversimplify elden rings combat to something far more one-dimensional than it actually is. They're just strategic options provided by the game developers.

[@Xanthan4711]

Underwear with a boxing glove? Art Jimmerson style?!

[@81stCommander]

Let me solo her didn't get recognition for being an elitist tryhard. He got recognition because he helped 100's of people beat the hardest boss in the game. He became a famous summon. The toxic elitists are against the use of summons and spirit ashes.

[@DBLRxyz]

Lmao enjoy the game however you want that’s all well and good. But if you can’t beat Melenia without a spirit assist. You did not fully engage with the fight. That’s not an opinion. You’re not a pussy, it’s not cheating either, but you aren’t skilled like you think. You beat Radahn at lvl 300 dude. You really think they play tested that boss intended for that level? “GT7 has driving assists options, it’s built into the game therefore it’s totally valid to say I’m as good if not better than people that drive with no assists.” See how stupid that sounds?

[@kennethfocarino7075]

@@81stCommander that’s precisely what I meant. On paper, he should’ve been an elitist tryhard and in reality he was the exact opposite. Actually, BECAUSE he wasn’t an elitist gatekeeper and instead used his skill to help the unfortunate, is probably WHY he got recognized by From Soft. Just goes to show that helping others goes way farther than being a dick about things.

[@kanaria-cu3uv]

every games community is like this, no exceptions. they pretend to be "wholesome and welcoming" as long as you never criticize any part of the game at all. the moment you say you dislike something, anything about the game, they go rabid and start foaming at the mouth.

[@Loctorak]

It seems more than that, though. Not every community has groups of people insisting that there is one specific "right" way to enjoy the game, and anyone that doesn't play the way they play, then they're bad or noobs or whatever insulting term they use.

[@Sister_Friede3105]

Except World of Warcraft. In this community nearly everyone knows it's just a bunch of bullshit. But people playing it anyway. That might be the reason why this game has the most topic community ever. Glad I quit with that years ago.

[@brynntall6811]

The only game community I've ever seen thats genuinely really nice is hell let loose, besides that the ones I've been apart of generally aren't the best

[@Hauke-ph5ui]

@@Loctorak Not every community is like that, no. But unfortunately it is not limited to the FromSoft community either. Have a look at World of Warcraft for example where a very loud but tiny minority is belittling everyone who doesn't do M+20 keys or mythic raids. Or the Total War Warhammer community where the same "git gud" types belittle everyone who isn't playing on Legendary Campaign and Very Hard battle difficulty.

[@TheDarkEnigma]

Been playing souls games for 14 years. And the community has never been as bad as it has with Elden Ring. Like... It's night and day to anyone who has been around that long.

[@sageoftruth]

You could say they're.... The Shadow of the Souls Community

[@Mugthief]

Damn it's not too late to change the title I need to think. This is so good.

[@JoseViktor4099]

@@Mugthief Do it xD

[@elhikseneliksen7199]

good one !

[@dank2804]

Hollows 😂

[@JaiArah]

@@sageoftruth nice one!

[@hsnowman1316]

biggest issue is when people say you “play wrong” bro tools are in the game play however the hell you want there’s no wrong way

[@futureblast]

Fr, they just can’t get over the fact that most of the time Elden Ring is an easy game, so they have to call the things that make it easy cheating

[@zaphael7238]

Yes, it cracks me up how people will praise the difficulty of these games but ignore all the careful ways FromSoft lessens difficulty with consumables, weapon buffs, status effects and magic, summons have been in the game since DS1. Every game they’ve had has had co-op and invasions to my knowledge. To make the game more enjoyable for differing play styles and to make the games easier. It’s not cheating to use the tools given to you by devs.

[@hsnowman1316]

@@zaphael7238 usually how i play is i like to solo bosses by myself unless i hate the boss, there is NO chance i am doing godskin duo by myself. but a boss like mohg or margot or rykard or godrey i will do by myself because i love them. i use them more to get past the annoying crap i don’t want to deal with 😂😂

[@hsnowman1316]

@@futureblast yeah it makes no sense man. if i wanna summon against godskin duo im gonna do it!!

[@DennisEngelhard]

@@hsnowman1316 Yeah, same. Depending on what my build can handle, I will summon for Duo, Gideon and now that stupid gank-fight at the end of SOTE. Because if Fromsoft doesn't put any effort into a boss fight, neither will I :) The rest will be fought 1 on 1, because it's fun and I want to do it.

[@austin0_bandit05]

I think "git gud" has become something that it was never meant to be. I almost always see it used as an insult. So much so that the phrase has become a net bad. It's too easy a phrase to abuse. I get that its SUPPOSED to be an invitation to be better but it almost never is used that way

[@carlschrappen9712]

I prefer skill issue because it explicitly calls out someone for blaming the game for something that's their own fault.

[@austin0_bandit05]

@@carlschrappen9712 Then you're part of the problem

[@carlschrappen9712]

@@austin0_bandit05 Not really. I have never and will never mock someone for playing a videogame a certain way or not being skilled at it. I will always call out someone for complaining about something they don’t understand, or blaming the game for something that's their own fault.

[@austin0_bandit05]

@@carlschrappen9712 Why not invite them to be better? Give them a solution to their problem? You're gonna catch a lot more flies with honey. Unless its out of some sort of "righteous indignation" and its nothing to do with helping them and everything to do with fondling your ego that is tied to the game you're defending? Most people I see complaining are just venting/ranting. Like we ourselves never ranted about a boss before or thought an attack was bullshit. The moment you insult someone the walls go up, the moment you invite them to give it another chance they're inspired. I cant tell you how many rants I've seen on Reddit/KZbin and then they're given advice and later come back to announce they did it and how happy they are.

[@carlschrappen9712]

@@austin0_bandit05 "Why not invite them to be better?" I do. If they're complaining that an attack is unfair (E.G. Gaius's Charge) I'll them what they need to do to avoid it (run to the side and then roll diagonally forward at the last moment). I mainly pull out skill issue for people like Joeseph Anderson, Demodcracy, and people who say stuff like "Maliketh is a fucking unreasonable nightmare for a melee build". People who have their heads so far up their own asses that they couldn't even begin to consider the possibility that the problem is with them and not the game. I didn't make up that quotation by the way, the comment is right here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZWnooV_m5qVjZY&lc=UgwDFI_TuWbp9yPtGl14AaABAg

[@glaiveb9957]

Its somehow its looping around to players who DON'T use summons and op tools. I'm getting told im playing it wrong just because I have more fun not using them. Its like no ones safe anymore man, can't summon, can't not summon, can't critique, can't not critique it without getting called a meat rider, yada yada

[@JoseViktor4099]

Imagine getting mad because people summoned smh. Is the Game you bought, dont let anyone tell you what the way of playing is or not, they are lame people Who probably Couldn't beat Manus without Summoning Sif on DS1. You are playing correctly as long you are having fun, man.

[@collinhalverson4681]

I don't use them, but I'd never tell someone to not play the way they want to. The most important thing no matter the game is that you're having fun.

[@theroguerider]

@@glaiveb9957 get your money’s worth, beyond that, fuck them.

[@inanefabas4402]

​@@JoseViktor4099 fr, people who get mad or need to justify using "cheese" strats probably respond to every bot comment on youtube. Just don't get mad and grow a spine type shit tbh

[@Soulessblur]

I think anybody should be able to play however it is that's fun for them, full stop. Gatekeeping in either direction is just dumb. That said, it does frustrate me when somebody complains about the game being too hard, while simultaneously ignoring the features included in the game and intended to be used. You can't blame the game for the difficulty you're artificially putting on yourself - and if you're blaming the game for the difficulty in the first place, it doesn't exactly look like what you're doing is "fun" for you either. To me, it's the equivalent of ignoring the manual then getting upset that you can't build a table. If you WANT the challenge of skipping out on the manual, go right ahead, but then any struggle you experience isn't on the table makers anymore unless you're willing to meet them in the middle. I think, conceptually, that's where a lot of those comments come from. Although it's certainly possible at least some of them are just partaking in some kind of reverse-elitism regarding difficulty.

[@eldenringpvpenthusiast1710]

I joined the "official pvp discord" and joined a conversation about healing trinkets during duels. I said something along the lines of "if you're being aggressive, it makes the healing trinkets matter less. Since a fight only last around 30 seconds anyways." They swore to me it was a skill issue, that fights only last 30 seconds. That if I was good, a fight should last 2-3 minutes.......................... I'm not sure who had the clams to fight me that day, but I won 4/5 of my fights with these people, and only one last just over a minute. The same people that gatekeep don't actually deliver, never have.

[@Carzeyday]

Dude, back in duels in souls 2 to 3 healing was a no no in duels out of respect.

[@eldenringpvpenthusiast1710]

@@Carzeyday I completely agree yo, even in ds1. I still remember getting served at the burg and told no healing in duels. Ngl though, me and my friends heal when fighting each other. No need to be at each other's throats, and it's more casual

[@Carzeyday]

@@eldenringpvpenthusiast1710 on the 2 to 3 mins thing, it only last that long in invasions. And there is a reason why. Even in ds3 with more focus, it never lasted that long.

[@eldenringpvpenthusiast1710]

I'm a bit of a stickler invader that will stay much longer then 10 minutes if you let me

[@Carzeyday]

@@eldenringpvpenthusiast1710 I either Die because of the spawning decides I should be right near the host and get everything thrown at me or they end up dying because 90% of the people running with a phantom army cant play for shit

[@jackg6649]

The idea of "respecting Miyazaki's vision" suddenly vanishes for these people when Miyazaki's vision is nerfing a boss they liked lol

[@Mugthief]

They'll say it wasn't Miyazaki's vision, or the data they collected online, or just fixing something genuinely overtuned, it's that they bent to the will of the casuals that are ruining the game.

[@DarkEnigma1115]

Pre-Nerf Radahn is such a meme, because they reversed the nerf in a following patch, they only kept the fixed hitboxes, but I still see people unironically saying "They nerfed Radahn." Starscourge, btw. Promised Consort has not been nerfed, yet(?).

[@jackg6649]

@@DarkEnigma1115 yea its beyond goofy hahahah. ss radahn is the same insane damage boss now as he was on launch, with fixed hitboxes. i think the only other difference is a dodgeable first arrow phase, do people want that changed back to requiring constant horse dismount?

[@Ale-dd3ek]

​@@DarkEnigma1115 they could at least scissor Miquella hairs a bit

[@Wyrdist]

@@jackg6649 with the horse you can run behind all the conveniently placed piles of shit while he shoots arrows

[@FreeLifeMay]

I think that the beauty in the game is it’s so many different ways or paths you can take to beat the game. There’s no right or wrong way if you like help use it if you want more of a challenge do it yourself or do both you can replay this game multiple times and make it a completely new experience

[@wo0o0o97]

"Use this, to summon one another as spirits, cross the gaps between the worlds, and engage in jolly co-operation!" Solaire laid it out to us years ago, this the soul of souls games, gatekeepers misconstrue the intention of the developer under the illusion that what they harp about is what souls games are all about. Deprived, rl1, no summons no magic no cooperation no op builds, just a sword and a boss. Ohh how it must sadden Miyazaki to see his games reduced to such a narrow vision.

[@crestfallenhussar895]

I think one of the issues with Elden Ring is that Sunbros have been relegated to obscurity by spirit summons and the fact there is no real reward for helping other players. Sure, you have "Let Me Solo Her" but he's an exception because Malenia was both so hard and healed off your summons. Every time I've used a finger remedy in front of a boss room the floor is always so empty.

[@sirninjaraiden]

I couldn't Imagine letting some random scallywag online tell me how to play something I paid $70 for.

[@mwjgcreeves4984]

Miyazaki himself is a confirmed cheese overlord. Probably the biggest one since by his own words he uses the knowledge from development as an advantage. No wonder the Taunter's Tongue remains the invader's bane, dude's probably a ganking troll at heart 😂

[@Hauke-ph5ui]

Miyazaki has said on multiple occasions that he enjoys watching how people overcome the challenges of his games. And then he puts a s**tton of possible options into Elden Ring. It's almost as if he enjoys seeing people use all the various tools he and his team designed and put into the game for that exact purpose...

[@nowieso]

Hi, silent viewer here :) i've been challenge running these games for years, and I noticed a very concerning shift in the community with the release of Elden Ring. Souls games were very niche before, and the toxic side of the community was much smaller. Elden Ring's popularity is a double-edged sword. It's been great for From to finally have a breakthrough title (and they deserve it), but the community has never been in such a bad spot before. I'm at a point where I only hang out with the challenge run and lore sides of the community, which are still very chill & nice. "Git Gud" was once used to encourage new players, now it's been missused by toxic weirdos. It also doesn't help that so many journalists are still calling these games "too hard" and are constantly asking for easy modes, so the community can never calm down. I don't know if you've noticed it, but there's a new group of people within the souls community ever since Elden Ring released: The complaining, self-proclaimed "veterans", that used the previous games as ego boosts, and can't do that with Elden Ring anymore because it's a much harder game (if you do a restrictive playthrough, which is what they always do, mostly no summons, items, buffs and spells). They are constantly trashtalking Elden Ring and attacking anyone who enjoys the game. Most of these people come from the DS3 and Bloodborne community and they are the most toxic people in the souls community now. Personally, I think the difficulty is totally fine and players can make their own difficulty if they really want to: Too easy? Stop healing, don't upgrade your weapons, don't level up etc. Too hard? Use Summons, ranged attacks, coop, status effects etc. It's part of the beauty of these games that they offer so much freedom to us players. Anyways, thank you for making this video, I think it's extremely important to talk about this, because discouraging new players from trying these games is really awful, and bad for From.

[@sarcasm-83]

Good to hear from a person who likes challenging themselves further, but is still cool and down to earth. As for the complaining "veterans", that genuinely made me laugh. It's so funny to think about someone who refuses to play with the items that are in the game design to be used, because it would hurt their ego to resort to them, then complains about it being "too hard" and hates it instead :D What an unfun experience it would be to be like that. Poor bstrds.

[@alliewilton6559]

“ ‘A game made for everyone is a game for no one’ , but that doesn’t mean it has to be made for YOU” is the coldest line

[@zfoxcrafter]

The problem with the git gud is people say it regardless to other people even when they have good reason to critise the game for some thing. I mean there are people that just complain about the difficulty and say the game is bad because they cant beat a boss. On the other hand there are people that have good points for critic and still get insulted by the toxic part of the community because they just point out that the games have flaws. Fromsoftware is my favourite gaming studio and i love the games they make but they still have flaws and some people are just glazing these games and say they are prfect and have no flaws and all non fromsoft games are bad. These people are the problem of the community and most of them came after the elden ring release

[@Wintertier]

I find it hilarious when I talk 3 hours to people and they are impressed by my knowledge about Elden Ring and the way I incorporate this knowledge in my Fanart, and as soon as I say „yeah I use spirit ashes when I want to. It’s a mechanic in the game“ and suddenly they stop talking and I am not a real Fromsoft Fan anymore for them x,D Ma Dude, Miyazaki said he plays ER with ashes and summons, and I will play ER the way I feel like and want to and enjoy it. No matter what. I do have playthroughs without ashes, without magic, without incants, only incants, claymore only, I have well over 1k hours in ER and I enjoy my ash playthroughs, we are a team and Lhutel is my fave. Fromsoft games are soooooooooo much more than their difficulty.

[@SavingTermina]

My first Souls game was Bloodborne, and I played it at the end of 2022, so I am fairly new to these games and community. Since then, i've played Dark Souls 1, 3, and finally Elden Ring. In Bloodborne, I actually managed to beat Orphan of Kos on my very first attempt at the boss, ever. Yet, instead of getting some positive feedback from some people, instead I got the opposite, saying I ""cheated"" the boss because I used the Holy Moonlight Sword, and not something like the Hunter Axe. Is Holy Moonlight Sword an excellent weapon? Yes, no doubt, but that sure as hell doesn't take away from my victory. I used it because it's an awesome weapon, like any reason anyone else uses a weapon in Bloodborne of all games. I love cheese, but boy oh boy, if using a weapon you like is considered cheesing a boss, then there are some serious problems with certain people. Great video mate, cheers!

[@eliasfigarzon9813]

My friend I would like to congratulate you on your awesome victory as a veteran fan of from software since the beginning, and I'm not talking about the souls genre, but the whole history of from software I dare to say. I've been with these guys since the early days of the ps2 with armor core. I hope you keep getting better at bloodborne and other games. Bloodborne is from software's best game by a long shot and there's no comparison, and I hope you love it as your first game. The orphan of kos is truly and objectively speaking, the hardest boss from software has made in terms of how it fits in the design of the game, unlike the others which don't do this as well (malenia, a sekiro boss In a souls game and simp radahn who only does big damage and it is even worse designed here than the base game) and you beating it on your fist try with the holy moonlight sword is epic, and unlike the rest of us who got destroyed completely the first time we face it you got lucky here, and I don't mean it in a bad way, but in the best way possible my friend. Keep it up and enjoy these games as you like and sorry if this comment is too long for you hahaha 😂

[@SavingTermina]

@@eliasfigarzon9813 Aye man thanks! Yes, I already have nearly 500 hours in Bloodborne and I still want to play more, got the platinum a month after playing it and I still dive in for other playthroughs! Holy Moonlight Sword is truly such an awesome weapon, but boy oh boy, getting the top tier gems for it is a killer lmao. So much Amygdala slaying for the nourishing abyssal gems. I have taken this weapon all the way through NG+7 and it's been wonderful at every instance, extremely fun weapon. I do agree that Orphan of Kos is one of the best "very difficult" bosses in the series, and he's very rewarding to best. And no offense taken, I know I got lucky with my first try victory over him, haha. He showed me what for on the NG+ cycles, don't worry, lol. If you want to see my first run against him, it's up on my channel! Along with a low level run for Ludwig because now every time I replay Bloodborne on a fresh character, I ALWAYS go for Holy Moonlight Sword early, and I can consistently get it in under 2 hours with fighting Ludwig with only a +6 saw cleaver at around level 30ish, just leveling as I go, ya know. I want to do BL4 when I more free time again. And yes, I do love each of these games and I want to continue Demon's Souls soon and hop into Sekiro too!

[@OnaxcliiFreiheit]

First try? Nicely done-- I was using the Threaded Cane and had to grind it out for about an hour solo. Also lets be honest, the Moonlight Greatsword is just the coolest weapon in the Soulsgames period

[@crestfallenhussar895]

That's crazy. Hunters Axe was known as THE cheese weapon. People literally call it "the spin-to-win." I think one of the reasons Bloodborne is so beloved is out of all the souls games is that it has no "correct" way to play because all the weapons are really equally as good. I can't choose my favorite! Holy Moonlight, stake driver, threaded cane, saw spear I love them all! Kinda can't say the same for Elden Ring though. When I try and swing around a mace or a straight sword it kinda just makes me feel sad.... and those were some of my favorites in Souls too.

[@eliasfigarzon9813]

@@crestfallenhussar895 you are right there my friend, while not all the weapons in bloodborne are the same, have the same qualities or there is a lot of them, the trick and transformation system along the other elements from and miyazaki use to unite and fuse all of these aspects, make it work so amazingly well being so much fun. Elden ring only has a couple of weapons or aspects that are a small portion of this or even the previous dark souls games. While here you can be whatever you want, sometimes or many times it starts feeling very good and enjoyable, but as you progress it changes to feel dry and awkward. Although being an open world and having lots of weapons makes it up to some degree.

[@roboticgentlemen1970]

Saying the game is not for you is not inherently negative. We have players who refuse to play by the games rules and demand that mechanics change to make it easier for them. If you can't enjoy the game as it is, then maybe you need to play something else.

[@Mugthief]

The games should be whatever the creators want it to be. It doesn't have to be for you, and they shouldn't change it for vocal minorities, both people demanding an easy mode, and the people saying that this game isn't for everyone and people shouldn't play them unless they're "prepared to play it for real". It's for anyone who decides to try them, likes them, and is willing to engage them with the tools given. It's that simple.

[@nahual7x62]

@@Mugthief you have good intentions, but not every player is the same and therefore the argument that "It's for anyone who decides to try them, likes them, and is willing to engage them with the tools given" simply falls short when it comes to a real game in the real world, no shit you wanna make a fun game that a lot of people enjoy, that's the point, but to achieve that you will need vision and a lot of intentional decisions in terms of development and the philosphy of the game itself, which will inherently push a lot of people out. make no mistake, the game has sold extremely well, and it is by far the biggest success in from software's history, but that is not because of a push for "accesibility" whatever that means, the game doesn't have any actual accesibility features like visual sound displaying, color blindness filters, etc. those are true accesibility features, which the game sadly lacks. the game sold extremely well because although it is very niche in it's philosophy of adventure and struggle, it is extremely good at it, the level of quality alone will attract people to a whole new genre they had no idea even existed, that is not accesible, that is impresive. most of the decisions made in favor of balancing, difficulty and progression are all made with that philosophy in mind, adventure, struggle and the ecstasy of traversing it with your own knowledge and skills. every single player goes through the same trial, and conquers it, that's what makes comradership so strong in the souls community, everyone knows what it's like. also if you want an easy mode just play spellcaster LOL

[@CC-kp7ge]

​@@nahual7x62 "every single player goes through the same trial, and conquers it" You mean like Hades? A game with an easy mode?

[@nahual7x62]

@@CC-kp7ge I don’t know much about Hades to be honest, what does the easy mode change?

[@CC-kp7ge]

@@nahual7x62 Easy mode gives you 20% damage resistance and then every time you die, it increases the resistance by 2%. This caps out at 80%

[@TheManDude]

Honestly, I feel as if the statment that Soulsbornes are about dying is only half of the equation: the true essence of Soulsbornes is to die and adapt. To think of what was effective and what wasn’t. I went into Consort Radahn’s boss room and got absolutely destroyed a couple times in a row, so I realized that taking him head on wouldn’t really work. I did notice however that he was able to be rotted, so if I could just rot him once, I could focus on dodging him. So after refining this strat over the next couple of tries with different weapons, shields and spells, I finally won. To “gut gud” isn’t just about growing linearly in skill, but to grow in the way which best helps you solve the problem in front of you.

[@Wintertier]

and then there is me a mage player, that went from spells to taking him head on with Blaidd's sword, always being glued at his ass and only being able to beat him that way. It's so insane how many different approaches there are for every boss and how every single one is valid based on your own playstyle, preferences and daily performance. It’s always about finding your way and learning some way or another. Some bosses punish you for using summons some punish for not using them. I love it.

[@dyroth]

@@Wintertier I agree with both of your points! Very incredible how versatile these games are designed so you can really choose how difficult an encounter is by the details, be statuses, damage number increase, or different movesets. And it is ultimately so satisfying once you overcome a hard foe, which I think is the best part about these bosses

[@PäiviYevheniy]

Adapt and adapt until you reach the peak called parry. Now you just parry and parry. lol. There's levels on being a dark souls player. Level 0: Roll roll roll roll roll and dead. Level 1: Learn and adapt. Level 2: Dodge everything. Level 3: Parry everything. The higher your level, the worst the lower levels looks. I mean, you're a level 1 player, how do you see players who just spam rolls without bothering to adapt and learn? it's still a viable tactic that works 1 time out of 100, but it looks bad, right? That's how level 2 players see you level 1 that need to rely on adapting instead of just dodging everything, lol.

[@MojaveKnight17]

Play Elden Ring offline Don't livestream Block those people Don't engage them at all Press X to Ignore

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

Oh no... 90% or more of newcomers would never renounce coop, they CAN'T play offline... 😏

[@ventusvanitas7544]

Don’t forget we can use ash summons and NPC summons over regular summons

[@MrCritic77]

And miss out on jolly cooperation? I think not.

[@MojaveKnight17]

@@MrCritic77 just ignore them

[@CyanBrown]

i like playing with shields, ever since demon souls back in 2010. Sword in one hand, shield in other, how very knighty right? A lot of the big bois in the community used to make fun of me, and every time they try to earn big gamer points from pointing out "shield are for wuzzies" I say back "if you are so good, im sure you must be great at fighting games, wanna play sf3 with me?" They never, ever, play something that requires extensive time and actual skill, like a fighting game.

[@codyshaffer8714]

My biggest issue with Git Guders is they are actively defending bad game design in which all the difficulty is inflated to an asinine degree on the bosses, while the rest of the levels are nothing but fodder to be mowed down. The souls games were great not because the bosses were giga turbo cracked, but because the level design which culminated up to a boss at the end all proposed a challenge for the player to overcome, instead of just backloading all difficulty to the boss like ER does.

[@Wintertier]

I have to admit the mobs in ER are much much harder for me than the Bosses and I know alot of people feel that way. So maybe it’s not a objective fact but much more a feeling and experience some playstyles have. 😅

[@user-ns4zm8qe9p]

@@Wintertiernah some of these fodder enemies are absolutely crazy 😂

[@dyroth]

Unfortunately in ER it's so easy to run away from mobs that there isn't much stake in fighting them (along with the many sites of grace and stakes of marika) so yeah a lot of the difficulty does fall back to the bosses that is a great point

[@dogeramsey9154]

To call it bad game design is nonsense though.

[@sarcasm-83]

I'll only agree in the case of "Astel Natural born of the void" about bad boss design. It's "teleport grab one shot kill" can go f right off :'D Man I hated that boss so much. I didn't find anything else really badly designed and Elden Ring was my first FromSoft game and liked it so much I went to mop all the optional bosses too. I think Dragonlord Placidusax was my favorite of all of em. Such a cool fight. Good to hear if the others have even better design..(?)

[@szemyah]

this is just part of our society. we love to create problems, where no problems exists. and like with every other topic, all sides are equally right, as well as equally wrong. you dont have to offend other people and you dont have to feel offended by other people. its up to you, the only thing you can control, YOU! be better!

[@JaiArah]

I personally lump the "git gud bros" and ppl that cheat at online games together. It's a weird superiority complex. They HAVE to be better than you. They HAVE to feel special and use video games as the springboard for that feeling. It's truly depressing.

[@ricardordz7538]

I remeber when git gud used to be a joke goddamn i swear people now just like to cry and cry i got a dude post a video "proving" he is better than me at elden ring and then block me over this phrase... lmao i never said i was better so i see this need for validation ok both sides...

[@sageoftruth]

@@ricardordz7538 Often, it's a phrase I use on myself, just as a reminder that I will get better if I work at a certain obstacle and become familiar with it. So, if I'm facing a boss whose moves I don't know yet, and I keep dying to him, I'll tell myself, "No problem, just need to git gud."

[@ORCANORCA881]

Git gud lost its original meaning. Back when Souls games were more niche, git gud was generally meant as a playful word of encouragement. People say they can't get into the game? Git gud and you'll start to enjoy it. Struggling with a boss? Keep at it, and you'll git gud and eventually beat it (by any means necessary). Now, it's used to dismiss valid criticisms (or any form of criticism) that anybody has. You don't like bad hitboxes? Too bad, skill issue. It's really annoying lol

[@ActualPandaa]

This is a terrible take, “git gud” means nothing more than get better, try again. How is that cheating?

[@Loctorak]

​@@ActualPandaathat's not what they're saying. Read the rest of their comment, not just the first sentence.

[@Gharon]

Great video, and thanks for bringing Noah Caldwell-Gervais to my attention. Long essays about video games sound right up my alley. Also, i love cheese.

[@soulkibble1466]

I've encountered such people on multiple occasions who will assume I'm some "shitty casual" who just sucks at the game when I criticize certain elements or express my distaste for certain bosses. They'll just assume I'm a noob who is incapable of "gitting gud" and suffer from a "skill issue" and can't comprehend that someone who has played these games many times, Beaten the bosses multiple times, is clearly skilled and enjoy these games would dare to criticize anything about it.

[@albert2006xp]

That type of person would actually PREFER if the game was worse because they equate suffering to achievement. So you criticizing it means you must be a noob who doesn't get how big an achievement the game is (for them). They're too bad at everything to actually get that kind of rush in a multiplayer setting, they'd be bottom 50% percentile in any game ever, but From Soft has created a market for them to live in the delusion that their accomplished gamers. The guys beat Malenia finally after 100 tries and think they're Faker lol.

[@soulkibble1466]

@albert2006xp actually they're the type of people who will say to me with confidence that Malenia's WFD is easily dodgeable at close range and they do it all the time and that the majority of the playerbase does it as well. To which I say, "No you don't. Quit lying"

[@Stinkymoe]

U are not skilled lil bro

[@Dorrovian]

@@soulkibble1466 Don't start discussion with him (@albert2006xp), that person is here clearly to troll all comment chains they can find. I made mistake starting the talk with him in other place until I saw his other comments.

[@MCPunk55]

I had one of these mouthbreathers reply to me with no refutation, just the argument of "These games are not made for you, go back to Fortenite". To which I replied with "Try Oddworld Abe's Exodus on the Ps1 then comeback to me when you beat it." I hope I'm still alive to witness it but odds are I'll be long gone when he, or she, even finishes it, let alonge with the canonical ending.

[@BBQcheese]

I will say that what you said about challenge runs is spot on for the most part. You can still do all that stuff and if you're doing it for any other reason then personal satisfaction then your actions are misguided. Personally, I love cheese particularly when I've learned a boss thoroughly through challenge running. But if someone else wants to just use it to burst down a boss it has zero effect on me and IDC as long as they're having fun.

[@lunaaskeland7885]

This! When I was younger I saw alot about how hard these games were, and even though I thought they looked cool af, I was too scared to get them and try cuz I thought I would be too bad at them. Then a few months ago, a friend reccomended Elden Ring to me cuz he thought I would like them, and he was so right. I love the game! Beat base and dlc, and have now started my way down from DS3. I used summons and a bleed weapon for my first run, that's how I had fun with the game, so don't let a loud small group in a community hold you back from playing how you like. It still felt like such an achivement to me when I beat the game, to look back at younger me and think she could do it. :D

[@Deboo-oz2rb]

There are some ppl whose greatest achievements in their life are the video games they beat. Thats why they act like that.

[@williamliddell7981]

I’m a guy who sweared never play a from Software game. I then played DemonSouls on a whim. Went on to beat all 3 Dark Souls and Bloodborne. What stopped me was the difficulty in the beginning. In most games the game starts easy and ramps up. FromSoftware games, I would argue start hard and get easier about 5-6 hours in, and then ramp up about 80% of the way in again. Once you know where to go, how to fight certain enemies, and start to refine your build the anxiety just fades away.

[@boshwa20]

Ive been seeing more people point to no hit boss runs as if thats a bullet proof defense. Like, i didnt get hit fighting Bed of Chaos, does that mean its secretly a well designed boss people just suck at fighting it? FUCK NO

[@duckchen2676]

id definitely say she is easier than people maker her out to be. She still sucks though

[@ArakDBlade]

Cheers for the insight and also for shouting out NCG. I started watching his channel recently (starting with his BB/Sekiro/ER video) and have come to really appreciate him and his perspective. His video on Erdtree is what got me to actually pick up and try the expansion when otherwise all I was hearing was about how absurdly difficult it was because he focused on other aspects showing me there might be something there for me to enjoy after all. And you know what? I didn't much enjoy the expansion overall. 🤣 But there was stuff I still enjoyed and he gave me the push to at least seek that much out with his video. I think the 'git guders' do these games they claim to love a terrible disservice - we should be celebrating the fact that they do offer extreme but surmountable challenges like a RL1 No Hit Strip of Bacon only run while still having the tools needed for my 70 year old dad to get as far as the Elden Beast despite not being particularly good at them and not exactly having a young man's reflexes. And that was without online co-op. That's a hell of an accomplishment in game development. And yes, I love cheese and so does he 🧀

[@JoseViktor4099]

Im gonna say this in my perspective, as someone who saw Elden Ring debate between much larger sight since its release. The community is a mess since this game came out. Everyday there are people disregarding others, the game, and we are on the most stupid civil war that would led Paper Mario fanbase as *saints* in comparison . You see, Elden Ring has a harder combat compared to traditional Dark Souls, right? Combo branches, distance reading, delayed attacks, the bosses move a lot, and there are two main sectors on this; People who use the game mechanics (Summons, AoW, Buffs) and people who prefer not using them. And the last one are two sectors; People who complain about the game being too hard and poorly designed so help like summons and cheese patch out these flaws, and people who enjoy more these kind of things because they saw an attractive on how to deal these kind of bosses with no much meaningful help (I am on this sector btw). And there is basically a war between sectors, very long and repetitive I must say. Difficulty debate as a whole is getting very stale... The only thing I got on these two years, is that if bosses are too much for you, start to raise the bar of what can you use until you feel comfortable. Maybe you don´t want to one shot enemies, but not getting stuck for weeks neither, so the best thing is use the least powerful, and advance by this. Trust me, it removes a lot of frustrations.

[@cheeks_of_the_boreal_valley]

I'm just the same as you, well said. I think a lot of 'souls veterans' developed a misplaced ego beating all the previous titles, and can't possibly fathom struggling on elden ring despite their experience. I think it's ridiculous to complain that the game is 'too hard' or 'too punishing' if you refuse to use the abundance of tools at your disposal to make it easier. And if you don't want to use said tools that's fine aswell, just accept that beating bosses with R1 and roll is not gonna be as simple and straightforward as in dark souls and bloodborne

[@hondshoven8477]

Eh, it might remove frustrations but it can also turn the game into something boring for them. "Souls game doesn't need an easy mode because you have tools to make it easier for yourself" is nice as an idea until you realize 95% are absolutely boring. I'm not one to judge, you get through the game however you've got to but I didn't use summons until Elden Ring because they simply broke the bosses' AI. Same thing with greatshields and poke shutting down entire bosses' moveset or ranged option being absurdly powerful til late game / DLC. As is, Elden Ring is either the hardest, most frustrating Souls game or the easiest snooze fest in the catalogue ... Unless you precision design yourself a normal mode and I'm sorry but at that point you're just doing the devs' job. I just wanted to have fun with the game man, why are my only options boredom or frustration ?

[@cheeks_of_the_boreal_valley]

@@hondshoven8477 there are options that allow you to significantly increase your defense/damage output without summoning and changing the nature of the fights. There's a lot of very strong consumables/talisman/buffing spells, not to mention the obvious scadutree fragments upgrades

[@JoseViktor4099]

@@hondshoven8477 Not really, fortunately. This is a point some critics like Demod used against "summons" when it really the only thing it does is simplify things to a point nobody wants. Why not using something in the middle? Why not using a tanky defensive build in order to resist more hits? Why not using BHS if someone has avoiding issues? Why not using weak summons in order to simplify the fight enough to still be a challenge? This game has a plethora of options a lot of people just forget they exists and could be the solution. And there are very intelligent ways to make fights interesting and enjoyable, thats the magic of build variety. After all, this is an RPG.

[@BBQcheese]

So many people are so salty that new players are just playing the game and having fun while the 'veterans' (that term is so fucking cringe) are struggling doing the same thing they always have. So they point to summons and say the game is unfair because it's balanced around summons and shit in anyone who uses them. It's dumb AF!

[@samermanasra8980]

It is a big problem when people are always discouraged from discussing the flaws of these games, rather than just mindlessly praising them. We like to pretend that developers do not follow the threads and see our content, but if a developer care for their games, they would definitely do that. If I were a game developer I would definitely be more interested in seeing what people think I did wrong than seeing people just endlessly praising my game.

[@HardHatDagu]

The funniest thing i remember a reviewer complaining that eldenbeast seemed like torrent was supposed to be available for that boss fight and the community jumped down his throat and swore it was part of the difficulty then the same time they dropped the dlc they added torrent to the boss fight,i stopped taking the git guders serious after that.

[@ianmurphy7460]

I think the mental block with new players is they think difficulty and fun are mutually exclusive. The "elitist" types, while a minority, are so frustrating for the community because they reinforce that mindset in new players by trying to push them out of the game entirely, as well as just being generally miserable people. They treat completing difficult Souls-likes not as an intensely personal and emotional achievement, but as a trophy they can brag about. This causes a knock-on effect where new players are defensive about the way they play since their place in the community is often attacked. It's ironic that the game that wanted to bridge the gap has inadvertently caused the biggest split the community has ever seen.

[@joshuathompson2404]

I'm around the 10 minute mark in this essay, and I'm loving it so far. The one point that I would make is that when you speak of the people who beat these games in challenging ways and then 'brag about it,' I don't see this as inherently toxic or 'bg.' My mind immediately goes to the early speedrunners in DS1. This is the point I became a souls fan and a speedrunning fan. That community for sure celebrated their victories, but were also incredibly generous in fostering a community that would help and educate those interested in doing something similar. My first experiences with the souls community were very positive; people willing to take time out of their day to jump into my game and walk me through all kinds of mechanics, etc. I don't argue that there wasn't toxicity at this point, there certainly was, I just think it's important to point out that there is a larger, less vocal (perhaps), part of the 'we enjoy challenging ourselves unnecessarily' community that are the furthest thing from toxic.

[@forestchurchill7348]

The 'I beat Rahdan lv 1 no summons so therefore it can't POSSIBLY be a bad fight; you just suck!' crowd. I see the same BS in Helldivers when even MENTIONING solo play or dual teams. 'Well I can do it so your complaints are invalid, oh poor shit gamer, you!'

[@xuanathan]

I always just reply by saying I beat Bed of Chaos with no spirit ashes, no ashes of war, no bleed, no summons, and no fp bar and therefor its a great fight

[@creeperYT9824]

@@xuanathan spirit ashes, ashes of war, fp bar dont exist in ds1 and bleed is trash, so this statement wont make sense

[@xuanathan]

@@creeperYT9824 Congratulations, you found the joke!!! 🥳🥳🥳

[@Dastardly_Duo]

Nobody says this. There are plenty of challenge runners who do it for the fun of it. Nobody's saying the final boss is perfect and you're bad if you can't beat it. Everyone knows it's hard and are proud they beat it without summons

[@zelectrode3337]

Those are the kinds of fans bullshitting their status. It took me multiple tries to beat Radahn, and I was almost level 50 or 60 when I did, and that was with summons

[@DIESTAR2010]

I say this all the time and I will DIE on this hill. Fromsoft just needs to just ignore the gitguuders and incorporate difficulty levels. People who want to play the game with brutal difficulty and those who want to play it more relaxed will. More players flocking to your product and more accessibility options for everyone. Everyone deserves to play fromsoft’s great games. But this community is preventing people from even giving the games a chance in the first place by gate keeping them

[@scragglie]

ive been saying this since elden ring released. the community has been overrun with normies and redditors who play the game one time, never touch it again, and then spend their every waking moment on discord and reddit white knighting miyazaki and the bandai namco corporation, acting like the game has no flaws, and being completely unwilling or incapable of taking any kind of criticism for a game they didnt make and likely have less than 100 hours in. these people are in every community now, and are ruining gaming at large. so despite how bad this might sound, i would like to argue in favor of bringing back gatekeeping, and keeping these weirdos out of the community because they will not stop trying to make it worse until they are outright removed or banned.

[@kennethfocarino7075]

But your the weirdo’s to them, and there attempting to gatekeep you. That’s the problem. Gatekeeping is nonsense, because all it does is promote fun for the gatekeepers. It makes the whole community look silly and not worth the time. If you don’t like the expanded community of Elden Ring, play… the rest of the their catalog. You’re just mad that there isn’t a new version of what you exactly like. I’m sorry I can’t feel bad.

[@SuperPandaLovin]

I really like you take on the community as a whole I think there was a shift with radahn where the majority of the community were like hey it’s hard af do whatever it takes, while still a small minority was shitting on any strategy that used anything besides a straight sword. I love cheese so me and my mimic teamed up and while it still took me close to 3 hours I beat radahn and am now doing a ng+ blasphemous blade run just to be extra cheesy

[@MaddieRaeGun]

I don’t get these toxic people. Like - why are you invalidating other people’s fun? It’s a game - it’s supposed to be fun. Let people have fun for crying out loud.

[@xTiddi]

It's because: 1. They want people recognize/valisate their way of playing 2. They want people to say they are good

[@ActualPandaa]

I invade because I don’t feel like killing the same NPC’s over and over. I want to fight actual thinking beings in weird, wonky, dynamic settings

[@Loctorak]

​@@ActualPandaathey said "invalidate" not "invade" lol. This has nothing to do with invading

[@vmanog67889]

@12:00 that is not wat cheese is… cheesing a bosses is literally breaking the fight in som unintended way, comet azure does com to mind but as u can see it was nerfed upon release of the dlc proving it was a actual cheese.. or impenetrable thorns wich was also nerfed, was cheesing bosses, it wasn’t intended this way is why they get nerfs so it truly does not count in the grand scheme of a challenge. Cheese is unintended by developers, not out there to be used in the cheese way, people just throw the term around too loosely but a gg build is not the same as a cheese setup

[@averagesoul8256]

im one of the ppl you are describing but to a way lesser extent. i dont care how you play the game, have fun its your game. however i do care how i play them game and i believe fromsoft has been fucking me and ppl that like to play solo with elden ring and especially the dlc. i dont like the direction of the boss design at all unless they change the combat system to fit these bosses. i also want a mpre focused game like sekiro or ac6

[@eliasfigarzon9813]

I gotta agree with you on the design of elden ring and mainly its bosses. They are some of the worst in the saga and genre, but they are still fun to fight and appreciate in some other area in my opinion. But yeah, they are below the other bosses from previous games such as dark souls, demon souls, bloodborne, sekiro and more.

[@Loctorak]

I play solo and this isn't my experience at all. What is it about the boss design thats so pervasive, prevalent and unpleasant that you feel betrayed by fromsoft to a degree? I'm genuinely curious, because I don't see a trend or pattern, myself. Don't forget that bloodborne has fights like micolash, which copped a lot of criticism for its design. But now people seem to look back on these things with a quirky fondness. I think elden ring is no different in this regard, but I guess time will tell.

[@averagesoul8256]

@@Loctorak for me the fact that they sacrifice mechanical coherence for the sake of being cinematic. the bosses have become so agressive and attack so frequent and have so little downtime that the fights become messes and their own animations cant keep up. bosses like radahn literally glitch the model in the standing position cuz he needs to attack . they dont have stamina anymore. combo extenders galore that make almost any punish window unsafe, you watch the boss more than you fight etc. these arent bosses to me, they are ai rng machines that move robotically just to annoy the player instead of dancing with them. i feel betrayed cuz fromsoft now forces difficulty over anything else. look at midir for example. has clear combo enders ,clear punish windows , and after the big laser he sits still for like 5 seconds to take a breather cuz hes exhausted which makes sense, gives personality to the boss.meanwhile bayle can attack 7-8 times in a row with no window and when hes done he can jump away and after the big laser he doesnt sit still for mor than a second until hes back on the offensive. good bosses like maria gael isshin i attack and defend in equal measure. when radahn jumps in the aur to throw meteors and clones all i can do is watch whilst hes regaining posture, thats unfair. a good combat system would let me also go in the air and damage him whilst hes throwing to meteors to keep the posture going up. like imagine if the attacks that bosses like owl do in sekiro where they try to recover posture would be uninterruptible and they would be immune during them. that would be awful right? well why is it okay here. ishin is always vulnerable for damage

[@yup7380]

​​​​@@averagesoul8256 It's weird how experience differs, I found Bayle to has plenty of openings. Same goes to Messmer and even the speedy Maliketh and Rellana. I guess visual clarity is the problem and not lack of opening itself. Curious, are you the type of players that mostly relies on roll then poke while kinda ignore jumping, positioning, blocking and counter guard, ash of war, etc for pursue of being "challenged" ? Because using jumping, Ash of War, Straffing helps creates opening. Bayle ground AoE can be evaded by using AoW that helps you float or jump while also followed with an attack. This minimzed stamina consumption and makes the fight more fun in my personal playthrough. Maliketh sword stab to the ground then explodes followed with backflip can be handled by positoning urself behind him. By the time he backflips, you are already behind him ready to land powerful attack weather it is AoW or heavy attack. It's odd, I like Sekiro, Bloodborne, and Lies of P combat more but none of them matches how much fun I have at experimanting in Elden Ring. Flawed combat but extremely fun to play. I guess it all came down to ER not really making it clear how to effectively beat many of the bosses.

[@averagesoul8256]

@@yup7380 i dont have issues with rellana or messmer. yes i do jump. however i dont use those thpes of ashes of war for a reason. they are not part of my basic tool kit. they are a resource that i need to invest in and some players just wont find those ashes of war. the system is a gimmick,they shouldnt rely on it for bosses. if they wanted to every player would have acces to an ash of war that does what you described as part of their basic moveset, and the fp bar would be rechargable with normal attacks for example. you can jump for bayle a lot of his moves but he still likes to jump away a lot and he does like to spam like 4 aoe attacks before hand

[@morgymomo8535]

I LOVE CHESE, or do I? My first game souls game was Elden ring, I have since played all the others bar Sekiro, even Demon Souls. My first run I used the mimic tear with a duel katana bleed build, the game was challenging enough, but i was adapting and learning and having a great time. my next run i didn't use summons at all, and very recently I complete a level 1 run of the game where I beat all the main bosses. I don't have a problem with people using strong builds are the mimic tear or whatever, as long as you are willing to learn, adapt, evolve and change to gain victory i see no issue. What I do have an issue with however, is the people that just want to be OP, for the sake of being OP, the guy who glitches or grinds the game to be 3x the expected level of a boss encounter to kill it in 3 attacks, I have an issue with that. I understand that people can enjoy a product how they want too, and can do whatever they want with it, even if it isn't a game. But not wanting to overcome the challenge that a boss fight presents? I take issue. If it takes you 100 attempts to beat a boss, maybe you need the mimic tear. if you are level 400 with the most insane build ever fighting mohg with a +10 mimic tear, why? the bosses were given complex movesets that are amazing, they spent months designing the boss and you're only gonna spend 1 second on him? I am incapable of comprehending that. So if you wanted an easy power fantasy game, would I recommend elden ring? No, never, go play something else. If you enjoy even the tiniest challenge, even if you suck at video games, would I recommend elden ring? Yes, and then i would point you in the direction of the mimic tear and all the items you'd need and help you out whenever you needed it. Great video btw, I enjoyed this video very much!

[@zaboono]

The thing I always tell my friends who’ve tried this game is that despite me purposefully not interacting with anything other than basic weapons, they can do whatever they want to beat the game, and we are no different in the end. It just depends on the way you want to play the game, and ultimately your fun is the only thing that matters. “Git gud” actually has a good meaning to it too, and doesn’t mean what people have been saying recently. It’s mainly a way of telling people not to give up, and find a solution to your problem. Let’s say you’re playing dark souls 1, and you’re stuck on capra demon, a fight that feels quite unfair when you first look at it, with the very tight arena and dogs constantly attacking. You die a few times, realize that you can walk up the ramp and sit in a corner where the capra demon itself can’t attack you and you can lure the dogs up, and once you take care of them you can fight the boss. In that way, with a bit of practice and thinking you’ve overcome something you thought was far more difficult than it actually was through a clever strategy, and you feel accomplished. Thats what those words mean to me, and honestly something that should be said these days too with the new community. Don’t give up, skeleton!

[@alexstudyvin4920]

IMO difficulty, in most video games can be devided in two categories. You either need skill in the game or you need knowledge of the game. For example sekiro is a game that's centered around skill, you need to learn enemies, otherwise you won't be able to finish the game. In terms of difficulty there's almost no 'knowledge' part, you can't exploit some vulnerability of the enemy to win. You have to brutforce your way through sekiro and 'git gud'(learn enemy's attack patterns). But when it comes to elden ring it contains both parts of this difficulty equation. There are weaknesses that you can learn and use, but that doesn't mean that you are cheating the game by using them. You just use your knowledge of the game to overcome certain enemies (and you still have to spend your time gaining that knowledge). Of course you can grind a boss for 3 hours, but you also can spend the same 3 hours assembling a certain build for a boss fight, go in fully prepared and make the fight less challenging and more suitable for your playstyle. That doesn't mean you are cheating, you just making a game less overwhelming for yourself. And i think that most of these 'git gudders' exploited at least some of those weaknesses on their first playthough. In the same way that you call a mimic tear cheating you can also call parrying cheating, because parrying in elden ring canceles enemies combos and opens them up for a critical attack.

[@lohikaarmeherra-1753]

There’s quite a lot of knowledge that can help with Sekiro, weird ways how items/tools interact with certain enemies etc.

[@DBLRxyz]

Parrying is a risk/reward mechanic. Mimic tear is a benefit with no skill involved to spawn it in. Not at all comparable.

[@Gungrave123]

@@DBLRxyz Gaius used to instantly charge you the second you pass through the fog gate, now summoning Mimic without dying to the charge took more skill than lvl 1 no blessings him.

[@DBLRxyz]

@@Gungrave123 Lol well I’m glad from can shake it up like that. Truly. But 99 percent of the time. You press a button with no consequence of when you press it.

[@CrimsonBladezz]

Definitely dont need skill to beat elden ring it more of having knowledge of the game… its why fromsoft go out of their way to teach you nothing about this game

[@nickgiannetti3873]

The "favorite streamers" line was sooooo spot on!

[@Dragito5555555555555]

sseth said it best that the only truly honorable way to play the game without any criticism ever, was to play with a lobotomy

[@drexelspivey872]

Discrediting someone’s experience enjoying a video game because they “didn’t play it right” is the biggest go touch grass I’ve ever heard like there is more to life than Elden ring pal chilllll

[@HardHatDagu]

Don’t You Mean Touch Grace😏….. Ill see myself out🚪🚶🏽

[@terryg90]

I used to believe these games weren’t for me. Bought Bloodborne years ago, tried it a few times and hated it each time. I never once believed that the games should be changed to cater to me. I just played other games that I actually enjoyed. Demon’s Souls remake released, I gave it a shot, beat it and loved it. Fast forward and I’ve finished each of the Souls games, including that initial Bloodborne game and enjoyed each game. That’s because I actually got out of my own head and gave the games a fair shot. If I hadn’t, I would have cheated myself out of some great games. I’m about to finish the Elden Ring DLC, but damn consort Radahn, screw that guy lol

[@TimDespairBear11]

imagine being such a nerd that you think beating a souls game makes you a badass

[@zjay]

The only place i've seen these people was in fextralife comments. Also i've noticed a ton of people who are very skilled at these games and do crazy challenge runs tend to be the complete opposite of this vocal minority and are very humble.

[@bobdobbz9334]

Except for people who refuse to use summons, but complain the game is too hard. Those ppl have an ego issue.

[@juicejooos]

Yeah, no. They're everywhere on YT and any other place. Except for reddit, maybe.

[@zjay]

@@bobdobbz9334 i disagree, summoning changes the fights a lot and some people simply don't enjoy fighting that way, i know there's people who dislike summoning because "summon is not the intended experience" or whatever these people think, but they're not the only ones that prefer going solo.

[@zjay]

@@juicejooos idk that's just my experience with them, i'm not saying they aren't in other places.

[@Mugthief]

Oh I'm confident most content creators are absolutely exhausted by this mentality and the comments, and at least the ones I follow very clearly state "dude I don't care just have fun".

[@sarcasm-83]

For the longest time the community kept me away from From Software's games. The elitism, the condescending takes, the idea that they're the hardest, most frustrating games and beating them will be something I have to train for, to have the patience of a saint and skills of a God to beat etc.. It had become an idea that was both intimidating and off-putting, that "I'll be worthless as a gamer if I don't pass them" or whatever and frankly it made me resent the games on some level before I ever even tried em. "Why would I wanna be frustrated and stuck on some bossfight just so I can prove something to another gamers, if the whole thing will just be difficult for the sake of being difficult and BS only to get some bragging right..." Finally took the plunge with Elden Ring, practiced on the beginning area with the first camp of knights for a good while while feeling genuine fear of things to come - fearing I'll end up disappointing myself, of "not living up to this huge task of an impossibly difficult game" or whatever. I then managed to kill one of the giants and got a little bit of confidence and joy under my wings. I then stumbled into an Evergaol.. Bloodhound Knight Darriwil. It felt absolutely impossible and I quit rather quickly, thinking there's no way and went on to try other areas. Not long after that and some small victories, I ended up going back with some caffeine and confidence in me and sure enough got my butt kicked again.. and again. But I kept getting a bit further. "One more try"... That sentence I remembered most often from my childhood where me and a friend passed a NES controller back and forth trying to beat something. A bit further again. One more try. At some point it clicked and started to feel more like a dance than a fight. I saw a rhythm to it I had to "listen for". I couldn't just rely on rolling frantically or go for greedy attacks. There were turns, timings, openings. After who knows how long, I danced through the whole dance and killed what had felt impossible some hours earlier and I haven't felt such a legitimate dopamine rush in ... Idk, decades. I got so damn excited about finding myself in that "zone" where I dodged all of his moves, persisted and conquered it that I felt lightheaded and "high" for a while. From that moment on, the fear was replaced by slightly-dread-flavored *excitement.* I ended up playing every optional boss too and finished the whole game without cheesing anything with exploits, but using whatever is in the game as an option and ever since then I haven't listened to the community, unless looking for some advice or info. It's not in my interest at all to prove something to any other player, it's in my interest to challenge myself with games at my pace and enjoy em. Games that are actually designed in a way that if you just observe and keep at it, you will find the info about what you can improve on and the XP you gain is between your ears. I've lost count on how many times I've tried and tried a boss for a long time, then gone to sleep and then next day come back more energized and beaten that boss with just a few attempts as if my brain had been processing all that knowledge and muscle memory to formulate a plan haha. It's an incredible feeling. So far I only have Elden Ring and Armored Core Fires of Rubicon fully under my belt and Sekiro in progress, but certainly won't be the last ones. Sure, I tip my hat to those who challenge themselves further with "no summons, no armor" etc. but completely reject the idea that their accomplishment would somehow mitigate mine, or that me getting through with a bit more help would somehow diminish their achievement by me seeing the credits roll just the same as they did "but having done it wrong". Our adventures aren't in any way tied to one another. We all have our different struggles and highlights anyway. There are bosses I found easy that I've seen people say were their nightmares and bosses I struggled with tons that others breezed through. So all in all, I think the community often creates a tone for From Software games that is way too harsh and makes them misunderstood. Sure, they are challenging, but they are also well designed so that if something feels like BS, there's often a "puzzle" answer I haven't figured out or item that can help if I take my time. I know in the age of 40 my reflexes are only ever going to keep getting worse, but I'm glad to say that at least Elden Ring (and I don't believe Sekiro either) has such a high mechanical skill demand that it'd ever stop me from completing them, since so much about the games is about learning your enemy. If something feels insurmountable, have a few "runs" where you aren't even trying to hit the enemy, but just pay close attention and most often there's some "Ah, he always moves his leg like that before that attack I struggle with" and suddenly you have figured out something that makes you enemy more predictable. :) Oh and if you get angry, take a break. You will never play better when angry. Sincerely, From Soft n00b who now finally "gets it".

[@DigitalHaze65536]

Great points. I want to throw out things from the opposite side of the screen! You can't parry things that are much bigger/stronger than you in real life. (try to parry a polar bear or even a heavy weight boxer, you'll just be eating your own fist before they do worse things to you......) So you can't parry in souls games, it's cheating. Also iFrames do not exist in real life. If it looks like it even touched you on screen, then start over from the beginning of the game because you would have died or been badly injured in real life. Good day all!!

[@fredrikekholm3718]

You can't cast magic spells IRL, so using magic in-game is cheating, according to that logic. ;P

[@joseortizreflects]

It was because I could, quote on quote "cheese" the early stages of Dark Souls with spells and arrows that I eventually motivated myself to start fighting head on with sword and shield. It was because I could use a shield that I eventually learned how to fight without one, and how to do perfect parries, or backstabs or the importance of head shots. Only recently I grasped how to time perfect rolls, do boss fights without summons and who knows what else the next hundred hours will teach me. All of these happened, however, because the game allowed me to cheese the early stages, allowing me to slowly learn the mechanics and gather a few levels and useful gear before starting to learn the more complex and challenging stuff. "Cheesing" is not cheating, it is just part of the process of "Getting Good."

[@Rhinlord]

Gatekeeping is good actually, however the Soulsvets do sometimes go too far.

[@rockyino99]

ima be real, if the hitboxes of the enemies actually aligned with the animations, elden ring would be much easier

[@Stinkymoe]

Er has the best hit boxes , you just suck😅😅😅

[@mingQWERTY]

"Skill issue" and "git gud" has been overused to the point that when people do actually need to improve in Elden Ring and are told to get better by actually learning the boss moveset, positioning etc won't because it's been so stigmatised. These people provide no actual feedback by saying those two phrases which is the opposite of what we need when countering all of "bad boss design" arguments because now those people can just say "You're a Fromsoft fanboy" and discredit other criticism towards their "critiques"

[@NexZu-]

As someone from the early days of the phrase "Git gud" , it was a way of saying to play better next time. Because alot of boss fights didn't require any real gimmick to win, just playing better was it. Over time, it got co-opted to be negative. So when I use it as a meme people usually get the wrong idea. Honestly never cared how anyone beat the game, just knowing the series had grown from the laggy backstab matches in the ds1 forest, to now laggy fights in a open world of elden ring. Truly been fun seeing the community grow since.

[@MilkmanYeti]

The main problem is poor balance right? There's no 'cheating' for walking in and using Comet Azur or bleed build with mimic tear; but they shouldn't be this incredibly better than just a standard sword/board build.

[@TyroPirate]

The topic of cheesing needs to be said much louder! I was explaining this to a friend recently, when he said he cheeses a lot of bosses with the destined death dagger, and I was like, "that's not cheesing, that's just a strong ability... cheesing is if you used the broken perfume bottle at the ground exploit before they patched it out" And he just replied "is it?", and i dont think his mind changed on the topic from my ine example.

[@Chris-cf1hs]

My friend said I didn't beat radahn because I summoned someone, and we both used a greatshield with the scarlet rot rapier. I watched my friend not apply buffs or anything and just die repeatedly

[@DirtyBobBojangles]

Nah that's legit a cowards move. Why play the game if you're going to play like this? The challenge is the whole thing 😂

[@DirtyBobBojangles]

You didn't beat Radahn, you cheesed him. Good for you, feel proud?

[@Chris-cf1hs]

@DirtyBobBojangles I do feel proud. Maybe I'm not that skilled but im pretty resourceful. The challenge is coming up with a way to tackle the obstacles before you. Consider radahn tackled

[@DirtyBobBojangles]

@@Chris-cf1hs the truth is you did not beat him, the GAME beat him, you were just along with for the ride. Can't be too proud beating a game on easy mode...

[@Chris-cf1hs]

@@DirtyBobBojangles sure thing bud

[@juanpabueno]

Great video man. I have beaten the game with and without summons, I had more fun using summons, people forget what one of the best NPCs said best, “jolly cooperation”

[@johncrosby2785]

If you are having fun, you are overpowered and playing the game wrong. The game isn’t meant to be fun and enjoyable , it’s meant to be frustrating and punishing.

[@rpghood7231]

Jesus beam go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[@ihhh174]

Is this satire

[@jeice-sonocteer1199]

Sorry but this is just the wrong way to think about the genre. There’s a right and wrong mindset when it comes to difficulty: 1. It is designed to be punishing when you make mistakes, but it is proportionally punishing and is designed to be fair and rewarding when you learn the system Or 2. Difficulty for difficulty’s sake and making something that only a small minority can enjoy from a sick sense of satisfaction from overcoming something that is blatantly made to never give the player any way to fight back or succeed from all of the hours dedicated to trying to overcome the challenge.

[@xTiddi]

Please tell me this is sarcasm.

[@MahmoudAhmed-bu4id]

Tell me this is a joke

[@Slohcin31820]

Elden Ring has been the first FromSoft game to fully click with me. One of my old friends has been trying to help me get into them since DS1 and his best advise was 'Git Gud'. He used it as a mantra for his practice runs, and his attempts at each new DLC challenge. It took Elden Ring for me to fully understand what he meant by telling me to 'Git Gud'. I know not everyone saying that means it in the way my friend did but I'm glad he was a 'Git Gud Bro' in the best way possible.

[@theroguerider]

Simply; Elden Ring opened to doors to even more “casuals” and the people who wore the “I beat Dark Souls” as a badge are pissed that they aren’t in this little club it once was.

[@Kisara-ST]

It's funny, because I think it's the opposite, actually Me and most other Souls veterans seem to think Elden Ring is deeply flawed (but still an overall good game, mind you), but a lot of newcomers praise it like the messiah and only tell us to "adapt"

[@xTiddi]

​@@Kisara-STI hardly ever see this. Also, I do have a question, what makes one a "Veteran"? Is it just you played souls when it gets released or, when a person (who played Elden Ring as his first souls game) played most/all the past souls games, can he be considered a "Veteran"?

[@joaoluizkfsantos8392]

​@@Kisara-ST saying most others souls vets isn't quite right. Unless I see some polls on the matter I'm equally a veteran and can also say that most of us love Elden Ring. The amount of veterans I've seen calling SotE the best fromsoft dlc is not small either. I truly wish it was possible to conduct such a poll without the votes of any newcomers 😅 would be fun to know the answer

[@JoseViktor4099]

​@@xTiddi Veteran on that context means when a player had a lot of years playing these kind of games. Now, if you ask why *some* "veterans" can even dislike or despise decisions that to other people would be fine with as "great flaws", we have to acknowledge this is not something unique to Elden Ring. For instance, 7 years ago, they were actually people complaining about DS3 and BB combat on contraposition of the more strategic nature of Demon Souls or Dark Souls 1 base game, funnily enough complaining about the same "anime bs" bosses that "modern fromsoftware" had back in 2016. Is curious because is about change, if we saw that. Thats why I personally I don´t pay attention for the "veteran" debate, simply by the fact that I also played every game, and I saw an special attractive on each one that I didn´t on any other of the same company.

[@CompleteCarnage99]

​@@Kisara-STSouls 'vet' here - Elden ring is the best. Simple as

[@Hexx_Iztenze]

This just came up in my suggestions. I've purchased this game recently. When looking at reviews on the Microsoft store, 2 types of reviews really put me off at first. The first was the "this sucks, too hard" people. The second was the "Git Gud" people. Neither reviews are helpful in any way. It all seemed a little petty to me on both sides. Then, I started to watch some videos on KZbin and found people who were actually very positive, both content creators and people in the comments of the videos. Instead of "Git Gud," I was seeing tips, tricks, and people encouraging new players to stick at it. They spoke with intelligence and, most importantly, passion. They weren't telling people, "You can't use this, or you can't do that." So I took the risk. Cleared the tutorial and then... I did struggle a bit. However, I stuck at it. The knights on horseback were an immediate problem. I explored and took out lower level opponents. Built myself up a little, found a new sword. Got jumped by one of those knights I was getting constantly destroyed by and... I took him out. I know. To some, it would be nothing and probably sounds a bit lame, but I literally jumped out my chair. Lol. I was absolutely elated. It was a great feeling. I'm taking my time. I'm playing it my own way. I have the mindset of any means necessary. If I have to hide and regroup, I will. If a move is cheese but works, I'll use it. I want to get better, improve of course. It's actually changed my approach to modern games in general. So, to those positive KZbinrs and those people in comments encouraging noobs, I can only say thank you. To anyone sitting on the fence about this game, give it a go, prepare for a challenge, and play it how you want to play it. Most importantly, have fun, because to me, that's the whole point. Great video. I love cheese.

[@moonman5496]

Sheesh just acquire proficiency

[@mage1439]

I've found out of all the games, BB has by far the kindest community.

[@TennessseTimmy]

Elden ring is a game made for everyone, That's why they have summons

[@dillansantiago707]

I've literally used mimic tear for about 80% of the game, both base and DLC. I switched to a bleed build to kill Melina. Hell, right now, Im running a Bloody Rusted Anchor build and IM. HAVING. FUN. Me. I'll play HOWEVER I WANT. I won't let anyone belittle me for not playing how they want, whether its cheese or not, if its in the game its meant to be used one way or another.

[@DonutSwordsman]

So many hour long critiques fall off everytime thinking the game wasnt designed around summons. Give me a break

[@randychristensen1028]

But the game isn't designed around summons. That's literally why the bosses become baby mode once you split aggression

[@JoseViktor4099]

I disagree that the Game was designed around summons because Elden Ring having two bosses explicitily made around summons; Leda and Starscourge Radanh. These bosses are meant to have multitarget and knowing to deal against those summons, things that doesn't happen with bosses with single targeting in mind. Although It can be true that summons are very helpful on case you wanna simplify the Boss , with various flavours so they are very enjoyable and very recomendable for people Who need It.

[@xTiddi]

I don't fully agree that the game is design around summons. But I won't invalidate others for using tools in the game. It's there, it can be used, if you're having fun while using them then you're good.

[@Wyrdist]

@@randychristensen1028 the dlc is absolutely designed with summons in mind. Otherwise there’d be no Revered Spirit Ash Blessings. NPC summons as well. Ansbach literally speaks to Rahdan and I think Hornsent has lines directed towards Messmer (maybe I forgot). If I remember correctly, you have to summon Igon and maybe Thiollier (I forgot) to finish their quest lines.

[@mingQWERTY]

@@Wyrdist Revered Spirit Ashes could also exist because Fromsoft acknowledges that not all players are doing solo only runs? Like the summons all have a fixed stat that doesn't scale with anything, even ng+. It also buffs Torrent so there's that. Since the enemies in the DLC have significantly more health and damage, it just makes sense to do that. Nothing to do with "designed with summons in mind"

[@LeoLeeGaming]

I personally only say anything about using things like summons when that player brags about how easy a boss was. Other than that, Elden Ring is awesome for the amount of playstyle options it provides. The issue I'm seeing is that due to all the new tools, the difficulty is wildly imbalanced. Use the strongest tools and summons, the difficulty becomes trivial. Don't use them and many encounters seem near impossible. In Dark Souls 1, the Drake sword is OP early on, but you still need to learn when to dodge and when to attack. In ER, you can summon npcs and your mimic and just stand back healing them.

[@poket5055]

only elden ring created this community, it was better before this game, it was smaller

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

👍👍👍

[@Loctorak]

It was around way before ER. I remember meeting these types when I started playing bloodborne and im sure they were around back as early as demon souls or dark souls 1 at the latest

[@cobaltblue73]

I often felt that the Souls games were the gaming equivalent of mountain climbing/hiking. The journey to the peak of the mountain might not be a walk in the park but the pay out you get when you finally reach the peak is what makes most people come back for more. Taking that analogy further, if I were to suddenly say to my friend that was an avid hiker that I wanted to climb mount Fuji, the 1st thing they would probe me about would be my physical conditioning. Am I fit enough to hike up such a tall mountain, without any prior experience? And if I wasn't fit enough, they would probably advise me to work on my physical conditioning before trying to tackle something like Mount Fuji. My friend isn't trying to gatekeep me from mountain hiking, he's advising me for my own good to "Get fit" so that I won't suffer as much when trying to climb any mountain. For the longest time when I told somebody to "Git Gud", it was often to somebody that was struggling with a Souls games and started blaming the game for their own lack of understanding and/or skill for the game. But I would often follow it up with some constructive criticism on what that person was potentially getting wrong (if they were willing to listen). It's literally me saying "you are making the game harder with the way you are playing it".... Unfortunately my definition of "Git Gud" isn't the same as how it's being used right now. I have no qualms with telling somebody to use summons if I felt that it could objectively make a fight easier... Some boss battles are just hard simply because of a numerical disadvantage etc...

[@Andi187187]

Long time ago nearly all games were hard and few people played games. Then games became easier and the market grew. Today 90% of the games that are available are made to be maketable to each human on earth. They are boring and no challenge at all. From Software is offering a challenge for those who want a challenge not for those who want be occupied with boring stuff. The problem is that those who just want to be occupied demand the few challenging games to be as bland and boring as the other games they play. Just leave us alone. Go play Diablo 4 and Fortnite. Not every game is meant for every player out there.

[@randychristensen1028]

100% agree. I also feel like that because Elden Ring reached the casual gaming audience who blasted through base game with broken builds and summons, finally found out from the DLC that they're actually quite shit at the game and are now mad about it

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

👍👍👍

[@Slow1337ex]

another side to the facts presented in this video is the overall refusal to engage and even hostility towards the RPG elements of these games. Something that is a core aspect of RPG games is giving you a variety of options of weapons and habilities, with you having to choose one or some of them and build around it. Not only the git gudders but a lot of people playing the games either ignore these aspects of From's games entirely, using only a basic straight sword/claymore and never doing anything other than r1 and r2s, or picking a weapon of choice and never changing it ever. Elden Ring embraced that RPG identity much more than the previous games. There are inumerous good options for every build. This probably wasn't done just to make the game more accessible, but simply because RPGs are fun, lol. The balancing is very different nowadays. Back then, save some exceptions, most of the games's options were basic attacks and basic spells and it was balanced somewhat well around that. Nowadays the game feels more balanced around having at least a good ash of war/spell to use in every situation. Even if you take the gid gudders's arguments somewhat into account, that some things actually really break the game in an crazy way and that could not necessarily be fun, there's a river of balanced options to use that definitively aren't broken. I get that having a certain setup and figuring out how to beat a boss with that setup can be really fun, so is trying out different options to see what is better until finding the right one, kind of like a puzzle, which is how Elden Ring is, and it is REALLY fun because of this. Still, a lot of people refuse to engage with this. Maybe because sticking to something you're used to is easier, and of course, choosing at least one weapon and ash of war is engaging with it, but I feel like Elden Ring sometimes demands more than that, because very rarely something is going to be good in every situation.

[@yslaar]

Git gud was a term co-opted by bad actors I think, due to the expansiveness of the community on the internet. I remember the days when it was almost a term of endearment, encouraging people (through negative affirmation) to keep pushing to play the games and eventually beat them. It was a phrase boiled down to its most essential and potent message, building camaraderie with the small community of players who stuck with it. Did everyone treat it this way? No, of course not. But it was enough of the community at the time to be noticeable. But with the community as vast as it is now, people are trying to reclaim ownership over their experience and hoard that for themselves, even when the games are built on these widely different experiences to share with others. The ability to leave messages proves these games are about discovery and community, but leave it to selfish people to try and twist the community into something gross and reflective of their own insecurities and unjustified ego.

[@scragglie]

yea, git gud used to be a meme and inside joke of the community, poking fun at people like DSP who were literally SO BAD at the game that the only thing you could really say to help them was indeed to get better and learn how the game works. it was a meme and ironically used to joke that people who had criticism of the game were just like DSP and were as comically bad as he is at the games. it was a JOKE. an IRONIC MEME. the elden ring community however has twisted this meme into an UNIRONIC npc response to any and all actual criticism of the game. combine that with the decline of fromsoftwares game quality since post sekiro and you have the hardest downfall of a videogame community ive ever seen, regardless of how you feel about the actual games. elden ring was the downfall of the fromsoft community.

[@adamiadamiadami]

This is BS, git gud was always a bit derogatory and means "you're bad, stop complaining" more often than not. This was always the case.

[@Para2normal]

What a good video, I'm thoroughly inept at Souls games and yet utterly obsessed by them. I've bought all the games (despite the fact I doubt I am ever going to make it to Shadow of the Erdtree), and yet I keep on playing them, driven by a desire to improve and get through the next challenge. It seems I won't be going hollow any time soon. Maybe because of the communities I walk with I've always had supportive comments when I've admitted my uselessness at Souls games, by the way I love cheese, I learned to defeat the Farron Keep Watchers by cheesing that particular boss so hard their dying thought was of Stilton. Love that you shouted out NCG, absolutely my favourite video essayist. The closest thing I have as a comparison was the old days of WoW (Lich King era) when ganking was seen as a valid thing to do and if you dared to complain, well........I took great pleasure from giving gold to new players, to help them, to make them feel welcome and so they wanted to keep playing.

[@Bonafidemetal]

Gatekeeping is important, hobby tourists lower the bar for everyone and the reason people rally so hard around From Software games is because theyre one of the few developers that focus on making finely tuned, difficult and high quality single player experiences in the industry. You can call them toxic, but the people that tell you git gud are the people that supported this franchise for years and were fans long before Elden Ring blew up, theyre defending one of their favorite franchises from blow ins that want to cake-walk every game they play so they can continue their mindless march of consooming popular products and getting excited for the next popular product, and theyre the people that will be around still if/when that popularity fades away, theyre not the "Dark Side" just because you got your feelings hurt by someone dabbing on you for using mimic tear. Cope and seethe.

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

😎🤟😉

[@venom-beeb]

The tourists don't understand that the real fans, the ones that supported the franchise from DeS or DaS, actually enjoy a challenge. Tourists act as though being stuck on a boss for 15 minutes is a nuisance, because they can't brag on Reddit that they beat the game in 40 hours and can now move onto next flavour of the month. I know a lot of people were mad over the idea of Souls games getting an Easy difficulty, but I actually support it. It gives the tourists a mode to play, so they can get the game done as quickly as possible, and it also allows us to disregard their opinions entirely. The way the game handles easy mode at the moment (mimic) just isn't cutting it.

[@DavidParfitt-o2z]

From soft don't make these games for you and will brilliantly continue to infuriate your child like mindset in future. Cope and seeth

[@MrCritic77]

You have it backwards. Most of the git gud crowd haven’t even touched the game and the most outspoken people of the game’s flaws have been around since the beginning.

[@nikoladrca5324]

I'm in both camps. While I support people enjoying the game in whatever way they want, I also pride myself in being able to beat Elden Ring 4 times and the DLC 2 times in the same Land of Reeds armor from the begining and with rolling, just with better talismans and same three katanas (Moonveil, Meteoric Ore Blade, Rivers of Blood). The only boss I ever beat with summoning was Malenia, because I hated her and couldn't stand her anymore While I was a bit taken aback with all the new tools in Elden Ring, as a veteran Fromsoft player, if it means more people will enjoy the game, while it still being the same Fromsoft experience we love, sure, let it be like that

[@nguyen275]

Telling someone to git gud feels similar to telling someone with crippling depression to stop being depressed.

[@kellanaldous7092]

Except depression doesn't get better with practice.

[@Dastardly_Duo]

That's a horrible comparison. You can always get better at a game, you can't just stop being depressed

[@vangavrish3797]

Fun fact: one of the leading developers of Helldivers 2 Pilestedt once said that he wants his game to resemble a FromSoftware project. What Helldivers has actually achieved in this regard is this significant part of community who defend nerfs because „the game is too easy“ and go all-in with gitgood mentality 👏😢

[@junoglrr9119]

we just don't want fromsoftware games to change just because a few people arent willing to put in effort to get good at it. a game for everyone is a game for no one. i am sick of seeing people that don't even like these games wanting these games to change from the ground up just to please them.

[@theKonfusion]

The Baldur's Gate 3 Camp music in background overlaid with Elden Ring footage caught me off guard! hahaha! great video as always.

[@S_raB]

Most people saying, "Git gud," literally mean, "Don't give up. Keep trying until you persevere. It's worth it." I HATE this rhetoric of "git gud" is toxic.

[@luisesteves5929]

Got gud

[@CharlesBurleigh]

I love 🧀! Another great analysis. I'm new to this community, the Souls-like community. And I immediately learned about "cheese" in the games. However, I feel that standing higher than a dragon and raining down on them with Rock Sling, isn't a cheese, it's using the in-game mechanics. Those people who say that is a cheese are trying gate-keep the game from others. I believe the devs intentionally included these mechanics so the games would be more accessible to a wider audience. I agree with your analysis about this topic.

[@MelioraSR]

I do all different kind of challenges, like RL1 base game and DLC, but that's because I play the game like I want to and would never gatekeep anyone from playing the game in their own way. I totally stand by what you're saying in the video. Great video and an important topic.

[@Hauke-ph5ui]

Cheesing encounter is a thing, but it is not what the "Git gudders" claim it to be. Cheesing a boss is not always possible, but sometimes (especially with Open World bosses) it is. Lure them to a cliff where a flying boss falls of the cliff and then dies instantly (even though it can fly), pulling a boss and then move to a location where it cannot reach you - that's cheesing the boss (a lot of people did that with the two Death Rite Birds in the Mountaintop of the Giants for example, or with Flying Dragon Greyll in Caelid which has a habit of jumping off the bridge and die instantly, or the Nights Cavalry on the bridge near Lenne's rise who also jumps off the bridge and dies instantly every now and then). One concrete example: The non-boss Magma Wyrm in the Dragon's Pit dungeon. You can pull the boss, then move out of the room and kill it with ranged attacks or magic without the monster being able to fight back or hurt you in any way (even its magma breathing attacks are stopped at the entrance door). THAT is cheesing an enemy. Using specific weapons, spirit summons, magic etc is not.

[@Dorrovian]

As Mugthief said "cheese" meant breaking AI or doing different things not intended by developers. Now people use the word for anything they personally don't want to use.

[@greengus9925]

All I did was ask for advice and understanding why Elden ring was so beloved cause I wanted to try it again and was immediately called a femboy and told that I shouldn’t touch the game ever again. I then proceeded to ask my friends for some advice once they had time and now Elden ring is one of my favorite games ever. Who knew actually giving advice could make a difference

[@CoreyJohnsonMusician]

I find myself being in an interesting middle ground on a similar issue. I think people should play the game however they want. But I feel very much disappointment in people who go and google where to go, what the best build is, etc. I think the greatest part about fromsoftware games is the experience itself, learning, etc. so I don’t have an issue with someone, for example, using rivers of blood cuz they picked it up and thought it was cool, or strong, or whatever. It’s the people who start the game with zero hours of play time already knowing they’re getting the rivers of blood, cuz that’s the op thing. Makes me sad for them.

[@DBLRxyz]

Exactly.

[@mismismism]

Thank you, it's so true. If you say a boss is poorly balanced, they'll jump down your throat calling you a toxic casual while they call like half if not more of the weapons, arts and spells in the game OP cheese. It's hypocritical and stupid. These same people will call the game a perfect 10 out of 10 masterpiece and any criticism is unfounded because people just need to "git gud" while effectively attacking people over the majority of offensive options being poorly balanced. The same ones that will attack players voicing that they don't like invasions for whatever reason or even have issues with the story saying "the devs intended it to be like this", "This is what the game is", only to then whine nonstop because those same devs didn't bring stuff like solo invasions or force people into it. It's the hypocrisy that becomes tiring. If they have a problem it's valid and the devs need to listen to them but if anyone doesn't parrot those same feelings, they need to shut up, "git gud" and be greatful that the holy devs graces them with this flawless masterpiece that only they, the most hardcore of gamers, could ever beat properly(clearly sarcasm but with as many smooth brains there are in the "git gud" crowd, I'm gonna spell it out).

[@DeathXtremeHaseo]

The thing is people that "suck" at games tend to have more perseverance and force of will to push through the challenge and still beat it meanwhile "skilled" people have less will because by the sheer skill, we tend to get through things faster or figure out builds efficiently so when there's a challenge, we get more annoyed than angry and let me tell you, annoyance is far worse than anger since you start picking apart the game mechanics more and having a bajillion reasons for dying/losing.

[@livetorek4723]

I love this game but I'm already bored and moving on, the pvp isn't even as good as dark souls was so I don't see a reason to keep playing. Being able to switch ash of wars to any other weapon is just dumb

[@ColorsFadeGaming]

10:34 100%. Love this video @Mugthief. Great work. Thanks for tackling this one.

[@goobbludon1774]

One of the best things about Elden Ring is the wide range of in-game options(builds, items, weapons, etc). It allows players to customize the difficulty according to their preferences. I enjoy playing solo with dex builds, but I've been told I'm playing "wrong" for not using summons or for using a bleed weapon. There's no wrong way to play, just what the players specifically find to be fun