UNEXPECTED differences renting in the Netherlands vs the US | American moving to the Netherlands

International students and expats need to know these things before moving to the Netherlands! When I moved to the Netherlands, finding an apartment to rent was tricky because of the shortage of Dutch homes and also because of cultural differences in renting an apartment in the Netherlands. In this video, I talk about the unexpected differences in renting an apartment in the Netherlands vs the United States.
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I like to share my experiences of an American expat in the Netherlands. I describe both the unique and everyday aspects of Dutch culture, and life in Holland while enjoying every bit of it!
Blog website: www.dutchamericano.com
Instagram: DutchAmericano
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[@rpfs2691]

When you say floor, you probably mean flooring? If your apartment doesn't have a floor, the apartment below doesn't have a ceiling!

[@georgecostanza831]

lol

[@dutchman7623]

We call it a 'vide'.

[@gert-janvanderlee5307]

@@dutchman7623 Nee, een vide is weer heel iets anders. Dat is een soort balkon binnenshuis.

[@dutchman7623]

@@gert-janvanderlee5307 Meer het gedeelte vóór het balkon, de lege ruimte zonder vloer.

[@DirkieB]

We used to rent a place "bare" but put in nice floors. The tenants that came after us (foreign) were clearly trained in the quirks of Dutch rentals because they asked how much we wanted for the floor! They were so happy when we said we weren't going to take it out for no cost to them. In return they were ok with us not having to paint the entire place white again. Win win!

[@Droxcy]

Very nice of you!

[@chubbymoth5810]

The concept of having an empty house for rent is twofold. You bring your own stuff into it and are allowed to decorate the place to your desire. It is actually that you have to return the place in the same condition as it was when you rented it, so remove everything that was not in it, fix the holes you drilled in the walls, remove the floor covering like carpet or tiles. It is to be returned to the original state. For a rent which is empty, no bail money can be asked by law. Other rents like furnished or partly decorated can be asked bail for.

[@lactobacillusprime]

On dark mornings… The Dutch time zone actually isn’t the right one, we’d actually belong to GMT when you take the longitude into account. But having two timezones within mainland Europe (it would have certain lager countries like Germany ending up with two timelines) was deemed unpractical sometime in the past when all this was thought of. So we ended up with darker mornings in winter than we could have. Before the actual time zones were invented time could actually vary from village to village until the whole time zone thing happened. Tolling clocks helped to sync time between villages but there could be quite a few variances. Same thing was the case for weights and size measurements. Those varied between cities until a universal metric system was invented, with some countries still sticking to their own systems to this day.

[@reuireuiop0]

Thats one issue, but more importantly, New York sits at the same Latitude as Rome, and DC is yet further South, so that's why sun rises pretty late on our Dutch levels. We're not that far from the Arctic Circle (poolcirkel, for you Dutchies) much further than the equator, anyway, at 52-53' we're still further from the Tropic of Cancer, the Northern tropic (keerkring, Dutchman ;) We owe our nice temps up here totally to the Gulfstream, without which we'd be living in Canadian climates - like, Newfoundland or so. Lets wait and what happens for Climate change to curb that current ....

[@richardbrinkerhoff]

The Netherlands was on GMT until it was occupied by the Nazis in 1940. So we, Belgium, France and Spain were put on CET that matched the time in Germany.

[@yvonnekremers4354]

Portugal is on GMT as well though?

[@richardbrinkerhoff]

@@yvonnekremers4354 When the Nazis occupied The Netherlands, we were changed to CET. Portugal remained on GMT.

[@ronrolfsen3977]

If I rented an apartment fully decorated it would never feel like home. Still renting this one and getting the carpet from the previous owners was nice. Saved me a ton of money. In return I accepted a half-finished wall they officially had to either remove or finish. Had that luck both times I got a new home.

[@mxbunnycatter]

This, a whole lot of this

[@palantir135]

When you rent a house, that house will be empty except for kitchen furniture, toilets. If you want the former tenant to leave certain items, like carpet, wooden floor or curtains etc, in the house you can negotiate with him. Otherwise the former tenant has to empty the house. You can rent houses that are fully furnished but you will pay a lot per month on rent.

[@AlexFlodder]

You forgot lighting. Only a bulb on a wire is (legally) enough.

[@Whistler4u]

For me it's about your own personal taste. I wanna choose my own floor, lightning, fridge etc. I was quite happy with my empty rental so I could make it my own.

[@DutchAmericano]

Makes sense of course! I was just surprised because it's not something I would have expected.

[@mariadebake5483]

Yes for me too! You want to choose for yourself

[@liavd2602]

Also, I find most fridges gross... I'm not one to clean all day - but many peoples fridges are truly gross - rather have my own

[@AlexFlodder]

@@DutchAmericano Side effect, the local 'hardware/ikea/...' stores love that as well.

[@mariadebake5483]

@@houwc01?

[@Rob2]

I agree with you that not including flooring is a bit weird, but not including a fridge (especially when it is a free-standing unit) seems quite normal to me. If a fridge would be included, would a TV be included? It would be difficult to draw the line. What I think is weird is that in social renting homes and appartments at least, when you leave the rented property you will have to remove ALL such things like flooring, and even curtain rails. You essentially have to leave it bare as it was delivered by the builders. That means that the next tenants have to buy and install all such things new, even when it was still good to use. Perfectly good flooring, curtain rails, curtains etc go to the trash and get replaced by new stuff for every tenant change. To me that appears to be a bit too wasteful.

[@bastiaan4129]

Usually you can still talk to the previous tennant when you're looking at your "future" house/appartement. Then you can agree on him leaving the floor, curtains etc, sometimes you'll have to pay a small fee though. I'll always leave the floor for free when possible as it saves you the hassle of getting rid of it.

[@Rob2]

@@bastiaan4129 Yes, for commercial rental this is possible, but usually not for social rental. Due to the method used to distribute available properties to new tenants there is no contact between old and new tenants, and housing associations do not want to get involved in disputes about what was agreed upon and if the price is reasonable.

[@watidatga]

@@Rob2 It is also possible at social rental. At least at the one I am using. Had contact with the previous tenant before moving in about the things they could offer

[@bastiaan4129]

@@Rob2 I've only ever rented social housing and I got to contact the previous tennants of the appartments i've rented. At my current house this wasn't the case because the first on the list backed out at the last moment, but he has had contact with the previous tennant. I don't know if things have changed in the past few years though as moving or buying a house is no longer possible, so everyone I know stays where they are.

[@jamescharlesl7662]

I trade with him, The profit are secured and over a 100% return on investment directly sent to your wallet..

[@mariadebake5483]

Many Dutch students can't live at home either. And I have the feeling that it's far more easy for expats to find housing here than it is for Dutch people. If only because it seems many expats have far higher incomes than we usually have.

[@ronnie9187]

It is not the fault of the expats, but Dutch people voting for more then 10 years on a party which must have the lowest IQs in the political history of the Netherlands. The only country where a human resource manager of a soup factory could become president. Even a first grade student could calculate on one A4 ten years ago, that there aren't enough houses, there isn't enough planned for the future and on top of that - not the fault of the Netherlands - we suffer all over the world from extreme low interest rates. Next, less then 10 years ago one dutch bright politician, from that same intelligent party, had an "incredible good idea": he convinced foreign investment companies to invest in dutch housing market on a large scale. Buying houses and offering them for rental. To make a good profit. I always thought politicians would act in the interest of its citizens, but o was I wrong. Yes the investement companies came, and they did make a lot of money. On the costs of the local people. So the big shortage became even much bigger. There is no developped country in the world that has such a terrible housing market as the Netherlands, where there is such incompetence to be find. Here you have the perfect storm. Two elections later, the voters still voted for the VVD... who is to blame ? I am glad I escaped the Netherlands long time ago. But I see young people in the Netherlands suffering finding a place, and I am angry about it. In my younger years I had to leave my hometown Utrecht because already then, in the early ninetees there where over 30 thousand searching for a place to live and you needed a good income of 1.5x "modaal" if you wanted to rent in the private sektor. I could find a nice appartment in Almere, close to Amsterdam and Utrecht. But I heard even that is not affordable anymore. If I may advise you, leave the Netherlands, in Scandinavia, Germany, Belgium, France or Switzerland you will find a place to live, you can build on the future. Never do things out of frustration alone, so on top of that, it is a wonderfull experience to work or study abroad.

[@mariadebake5483]

@@ronnie9187 I will stay here for the rest of my life. But I understand you. Only I wouldn't want to live anywhere else

[@vogel2280]

@@ronnie9187 well, Ronnie apparently you've been misinformed. The actual cause is that the economy is booming. There are over a million foreign workers building our houses, driving our trucks, picking our vegetables and catching our free-roaming chickens. Those workers all need houses. If we want to solve the housing problem fast, all we need to do is to crash the economy. The second problem is that municipalities (gemeente) ask the people that already have a house if it is OK to convert a piece of nature into a suburb. And of course the people that already have a house vote no. And if they do vote yes, municipalities try to get top-euro for that land and because mansion sized plots sell for more (per m2) and the residents of such plots do not require any work (social workers, disability-cheques, children with learning problems, children carrying knives , etc). So whenever building plots are available, its never "How do we cram as many houses as possible in the tiny piece of land"-way of thinking that is currently required. So basically: yes people are stupid, but in this case you are barking up the wrong tree.

[@ronnie9187]

@@mariadebake5483 Ik begrijp dat natuurlijk. Na al die jaren in het buitenland kan ik er nog steeds kwaad om worden dat dit probleem nog steeds niet is opgelost, nee zelfs nog veel erger geworden is. Ik duim voor al die jonge Nederlanders en ik hoop dat dit meer een politiek issue gaat worden. Wonen is een eerste levensbehoefte.

[@crazymulgogi]

@@vogel2280 "the economy is booming" is not an excuse. The liberals have been trying to kill social housing for decades and even literally invited speculators to bid up prices on the real estate market. Keeping up with demand was something they could not care less about.

[@nfboogaard]

Something I learned the hard way: A permanent rent contract may not transfer to adult children living there if the tennant dies. The realter wanted me out in a month, but luckily the law said otherwise and I was given 6 months to find something new.

[@mariadebake5483]

Yes that's something to be aware of

[@z.4722]

Yes, and that is also something logical, it is other people's property, not a heritage. But one month to move out is not reasonable.

[@nulian]

Think if they person writes in and lives longer then 30 years he is allowed to stay or something like that. It's how my uncle was allowed to stay after his parents died.

[@yvonnekremers4354]

You need to include adult kids on your lease if you want that to happen.

[@z.4722]

@@nulian poor landlord, it's a rental, not charity...

[@crazymulgogi]

It seems to me that when landlords offer fully furnished places for rent, it's for the more upscale market: expats, advanced students from abroad, politicians or business people who need an apartment closer to work during the week, or to hang out with their girlfriend (m/f) in case they're married. If you have that kind of money as an average Dutch person you'd just buy a house. If you can't buy a house and by some miracle find a place to rent, you'll probably have to go through the whole flooring and paintjob ritual, there's no way around it. If you have some money left, have a linoleum/"marmoleum" floor. :)

[@michaelazangeres]

most furnished places charge hundreds of euros extra for the furniture even though its just cheap ikea shit😅 A friend of mine lived in a place that was furnished right down the street that was halve of the size of my apartment in a worse building and her rent was more than mine😅

[@jpdj2715]

Dark mornings in the winter - it's related to how far to the North we are (or the distance to the equator). To make this relatable, here are a few cities in the world: Amsterdam, Netherlands - 52.4 degrees Northern latitude London, England, UK - 51.5 Paris, France - 48.9 Quebec City, Canada - 46.8 Rome, Italy - 41.9 New York, NY, USA - 40.7 Washington, DC, USA - 38.9 Lisbon, Portugal - 38.7 Los Angeles, CA, USA - 34.1 The shortest day of 2021 will be 21 December and the solstice will be at 15:59 UTC. From there on, days will get longer again and gradually the change from light to dark or dark to light will become a bit faster too.

[@dutchman7623]

Yep we are as north as well into Canada. And we always live 40 minutes ahead of natural time, in summertime 1h and 40m. The sun reaches it highest point at 12:40 pm (summer 13:40 pm). Long light evenings in summer, short days in winter.

[@shadeblackwolf1508]

The common setup here is that a place for rent is considered a box. you decorate it for your time staying there. Then you leave it how you found it. Bare box. Upside, almost everyone has a permanent contract

[@Kailhun]

In my experience it depends on the landlord what the state is of the place you rent. You always have to paint it yourself. That is the ritual by which you make the place yours. Most do clean it. The kitchen depends. Sometimes it is fully furnished with stove and fridge, sometimes it isn't. Dishwashers and washing machines are rarely supplied. A tenant is supposed to leave a place in the original state. They are supposed to clean it themselves and repair all damage (I always have). They can leave improvements. And the next tenant can changes "overnemen" (take them over? accept them?). It then become their responsibility. Unless the landlord accepts them in which case they become part of the original state of the place. Be very sure you have that on paper. Also be very careful with adding things that are hard to remove, such a floors glued onto the original floor. Or accepting them as I did (couldn't prove the landlord had taken the glued floor over). Fortunately the next tenants were as naive as I was and took the floor over from me (I did warn him).

[@jwenting]

One reason most apartments and houses are rented out by realtors rather than private owners is the renters' protection laws. Basically once you have a rental contract it's nearly impossible to throw you out, even for non-payment of your rent. Another reason is historical. In the past rentals were mostly for poor people, and rental agencies were set up to provide subsidised housing to them. Your rental process is weird to me as a Dutch person. When I rented my first apartment, I contacted the rental agency, agreed on a time over the phone, and at that date and time someone from the agency was there to receive me with the key and paperwork in case I decided to take the place. That was the norm, but that was the pre-crisis housing market. Places will come without flooring, curtains, wallpaper, and kitchen appliances because that's how they got delivered. Dutch rental agreements tend to state that you need to leave the place as you got it, and as the rental agency got it without those and immediately rent it out again, and WILL fine a renter for not removing things when they move out, people remove all that stuff when they move out. And oh boy, can that be a pain. Took me a week to remove the old wallpaper from that rental place when I moved out 12 years later. But saved me a LOT of money from the fine that'd otherwise be added to my final bill.

[@Max.Paprika]

I'm going to be moving to the Netherlands in a few months, and while I knew a couple of these points, particularly the part about the floors, I keep finding things that are a little eye-opening the more I learn about the process. Hopefully the situation around Delft won't be quite as hectic.

[@wilmascholte7607]

I wouldn't get your hopes up. There are a few 'shrink regions', mostly around Heerlen in the south-east and in the north-east by the German border, and in the south-west by the Belgian border, but the rest of the country has serious housing issues.

[@nancyvdspek]

If you're looking for a room or studio (temporarily) it's best to come towards the end of the school year...many students will be leaving their rooms then. Delft has a lot of students/colleges so it's hard to find something during the school year. Also if u try a bit outside of the city its usually cheaper.

[@LisaKokx]

I am in my sixth year of university and still live at home, it's just too difficult and too expensive to find housing. I am not suprised in the least by those hostel bed stories lmao

[@Korilian13]

I think renting a bare house is common, because rental contracts are generally long term, without a set end date. So it allows people to decorate according to their own taste. Sometimes you can negotiate with the previous renter and buy/get their floor or other furnishings. I hear in Germany rentals don't even always come with a kitchen, so there's that at least.

[@CobisTaba]

To be honest, laying a floor is a lot easier then you think. As long as you use laminaat (no idea on the English word). Get help from someone who has done it before and you’re done in half a day or so (depending on size of apartment). But I do understand why this sounds utterly weird, no argument there ;)

[@gert-janvanderlee5307]

It depends. Is it a new built house? With smooth new level concrete floors? Or an older house with a not so smooth and not so level old floor? And don't forget the subfloor to prevent complaining neighbours about noise.

[@CobisTaba]

@@gert-janvanderlee5307 tbh with laminaat i never had issues in anythings except really weird places

[@bastiaan4129]

@@CobisTaba In houses from 1950's onwards it's no problem at all, in my 1930's house there are no straight walls and the floor is quite crooked. I did get it in but its by far the worst flooring i've ever layed.

[@anniehope8651]

I think the problem is that people who just arrive here don't know anyone who has done it before. We, as Dutchies, all have done it before or have a dad who can help. If you don't, and you have no idea where to start, I can see it can be overwhelmig.

[@barbarawarner4645]

American XPat here. The cultural differences are endless.

[@Multimedia_Artist]

Hello. I decided to listen to a video blogger for the first time to improve my English. I watched content from different channels for 30 minutes. This is the first time I've seen your video and channel. If I understand correctly, your name is Eva. You speak very nice and clear English. While listening to you, I realized that I can distinguish words better. I think I can improve my English faster by listening to you. I will follow your channel from now on.

[@grovervansesamstraat]

Your coffee cup matches the colours of your sweater perfectly.

[@jbird4478]

That last point also explains the floors and such. Many people here end up living for many years in the same rental house. In that case you want the floors you like, paint the walls as you please, and choose your own fridge. And that's not just because of personal preference, but also a financial choice. If those things belong to your landlord, you indirectly pay for the upkeep through rent, whilst not being able to decide when and how maintenance or renewal should be done.

[@z.4722]

You can get a permanent contract, and a lot of protections for the tenant, that might be the reason that you need to install your own floor, bring your own kitchen supplies, etc. It is basically your own place rather than only a rental :D It is also easier for the landlord to manage if he/she gave a permanent contract, they only need to maintain the house/apartment, but not the things inside.

[@yosianewhite3028]

Omg Ava, this is SO funny. I'm trying to find a place to rent in Nijmegen and oh man. All of this. xD I miss you! See you soon! xxxy

[@Kailhun]

Dutch people would like to plan housing. Problem is you have to act NOW! If you plan looking at a place in two weeks, the place will be gone.

[@mariozaal]

Wat leuk dat je kat ook effe in je video kwam.🐈🐈🐈

[@marcusfranconium3392]

Housing problem is one of the problems. Enviroment one major reason , schools ,teachers , farms /agricultural sector / building new houses, over population ( over 540 people per km2 forget the average given on wikipedia or other sites as they count water surface as well) imigration , cars , truck etc etc. All ties to it . you cant build houses with the current amount of farms. Over extended power grid , lack of energie . you cant expand the agricultural sector due to housing shortages . On top of that the emisions have to go down , all ads up to over population . As the goals are for the reduction set in 1990s . exept there are now 3 milion more people . you start to see the problem . Our country is to small to acomodate every one. and every thing

[@smenor]

This sounds so much like trying to find a place in Paris. It was a real shock how hard they were to find and that there’d be 30 people at the viewings and they’d require a big dossier, guaranteers, and apparently also often multi-year leases

[@Paul-iq6pw]

"My soul is dark and grimey". Well, there is a Halloween scare I was not prepared for! Congratulations on matching your coffee with your sweater though. Never had to rent, so cannot comment on that, but the video was entertaining as ever.

[@DutchAmericano]

Haha, I didn't notice the coffee and sweater matching until you mentioned it! And thanks for the nice comment =)

[@Baroest]

I don’t know for sure but I believe there is a formal pointsystem to ‘ value’ an apartment. Cold empty apartments must adhere to this system (although nobody goes to court to obtain there rights, because to many others will gladly take the apartment). However if you slightly furnish the apartments the price may be raised a lot. Maybe others can comment and see if the oointsystem is still in place (and still not working)

[@anniehope8651]

That system is still in place, but it is mostly a guide line for what is a reasonable price. It is mostly used by the social rent agencies. Private landlords can ask whatever they want. I don't think the empty appartment thing has anything to do with it.

[@edgroenenberg5916]

There is one exception for permanent rental contracts, and is specifically tailored towards students and is called the 'Campus contract'. It''s the only one which has a limited time (even if it is a few years long). It was created in order to have students leave the room or apt. after they have finished their University. In the past, it happened that a lot of students kept staying in their places, creating an increasing shortage of rooms in cities with Universities.

[@z.4722]

hahaha, that is so true, I have a colleague, he is already in his late 40s and he is still living in his student room...

[@anniehope8651]

Yeah, I've seen that a lot too. If you have to wait for 5 years to get a student room, you already graduated by the time you get it. And then you keep it because it is cheap housing. Nobody can/could get you out. That is not what student housing was meant for. Good that they are trying to do something about it.

[@arturobianco848]

Like you said most people here rent for a long time so the want to personlize it so "kaal" is a goed option since you already have the stuff if you are not a first timer. Another thing is that you have to leave the rental in its "original" state if you move out so that usually means its cheaper to take the floors with even if you have no use for it. Only relatvly shortterm leases are furnitured.

[@klemmr3233]

When you said in a prior video there was often no kitchen I thought how much things had improved. The no floor thing is a Dutch classic.

[@DutchAmericano]

😂😂😂

[@gusknip]

Well, renting here usally includes some kind of kitchen with things like a stove/oven and often also a built-in fridge. In Germany, though, it is quite common for a tenant to have their own kitchen fitted for the appartment, and when they move, to take that with them.

[@carbon1255]

Flooring, I'm sure they come with floors XD You don't have to bring your own joists xD

[@eefneleman9564]

Don't worry, in a month it'll be dark again. People renting a bare apartment have to leave it bare when they go. You're basically renting a shell which you can make your own in every way, but when you leave you have to take everything out.

[@XxXx-Evo]

I think that the possibility of renting permanent and the fact that you bring your own stuff are related. My parents rented a house for more than 20 years, and than you want a floor, fridge and other things that you like (it fits your taste or it is most convenient for the way you live your live)

[@AnymMusic]

I mean you do have student housing in the Netherlands..... issue being that even that is becoming more and more difficult to get into. like I was insanely lucky to get my shipment container apartment of 21m2/226sqft in a matter of months after being sign up at Woningnet for a couple of years.

[@jpdj2715]

19:37 but of course I was not able to talk about everything about ranting (*) in the Netherlands and the US in this one short video - she said. So you can continue in the next video. Somewhere before WW2, owning houses in the NL was uncommon and most people rented, irrespective of their income or wealth. Houses came freshly painted, with new wallpaper, some floor on the floor and often sometimes furniture. At the time, the kitchens would have been basic, but adequate in the way of living of the time. There was a lot of mobility, for instance when a tenant wanted a fresh wallpaper. In this market for sellers of real estate and people who rent houses/apartments to you, it's all difficult for starters to buy their first house and for renters to get into a home. Cultural differences are big between countries and where in the NL your rented house may come with a basic kitchen, in Germany there's nothing. The advantage of having a longer term rental contract is that you may want to invest in new flooring as you will likely wear it out yourself. And in case you have to move on early, you may find a renter that wants to take over your floor for a reasonable compensation. Note that home rental companies or corporations hire professionals to assess the home when you leave it and will draft a quote to repair or undo things that you changed in the time you lived there. So, when you accept such a home with deficiencies brought on by the previous renters, and do not document these non-conformities between you and the rental agent, then, when you move on, there's a risk you end up with an invoice for a couple thousand euros of repair work, plus you lost your upfront deposit in that. (*) Pfun intended. That's what renting boils down to at the moment.

[@therealcleany]

The thing with not cleaning the place first is not fully true. It depends if you rent something from "particuliere huur" or "sociale huur".

[@pppetra]

Renting a space.. ending up with the dirty floors of the previous owner.. yeah, no. Most people strip a house anyway. So loose the wallpaper, fill all holes, take out carpet, curtain, flooring. Give everything a good clean, Paint in colors you like, put in a Nice floor, curtains and your own stuff. Kitchens.. if IT is not build-in IT is not staying. Also when An appliance breaks down that Comes with the house the person woning the house must Fix IT. Not putting Them in saves them time and money. Also.. rather not inherit the dirty oven, microwave, fridge.. In germany a house usually does not come with the kitchen. So no counters, no kabinets, no sink.

[@luk5464]

Are those dorms always shared? That’s almost kind of the same as a hostel bed?

[@peadar-o]

The flooring bit can be annoying if you want to move in asap and not spend/ waste time looking at carpeting or laminate, but it can be nice to bring in something you like and wish to care for properly. Also, Pararius was hellish, and similar to daft.ie in Dublin, Ireland. I was lucky to get my place directly through a landlord via Pararius, even though it’s expensive, but when comparing it, and the quality, I’m off quite ok living on my own in a studio in Amersfoort (easy commute to Amsterdam (and also Schiphol Airport), Utrecht and The Hague, than what I paid in shared accommodation with a private bathroom in Dublin.

[@anniehope8651]

Hi, I'm from Amersfoort. :) The thing in the Netherlands is, is that many cities are so well connected that you can easily commute, also as a student. You don't need to live in the most expensive places like Amsterdam. By the way, if you want the real Dutch experience, I would even recommend living in a different city or town. Amsterdam is such a melting pot with so many expats that it's not really Dutch anymore. I personally like Utrecht much more, and cities like Haarlem or Amersfoort are perfectly fine too. There is nothing that Amsterdam has that these cities don't have, exept that they are a little smaller, have less expats, less tourists, less Starbucks and lower rents. :)

[@malsonjo]

I recently found a place for rent in a smaller Dutch city in Noord-Brabant, but it'll be 2 months before I can move there. The rent is not cheap, and that's 2 months I'm paying just to keep the place. At least it's nice.

[@Thorarin]

You are typically required to take out your floor when you leave, unless you can agree with the new tenant that they would like to take it over. However, this is not always possible, because you might not get to meet the new tenant, and the owner might not give you the opportunity to talk to them. So you end up throwing away your floor, only for the next tenant to get a new one again 🙄

[@jimjungle1397]

I remember renting apartments in Europe that even though rent is higher if furnished, a furnished apartment usually requires an additional month of security deposit on top of one month security deposit and foreigners usually have to pay an additional month of security deposit, sometimes two more. So first month's rent, plus one month if unfurnished, two more months if furnished and another month or more if foreign citizen. When i was an American student in Europe, France required a rental contract before issuing a student visa, Belgium issued a student visa before arriving and gave me 10 days after arriving to find place to stay and the Netherlands issued Americans student visas after they arrived. The Netherlands was the easiest for Americans to get student visas.

[@Bennie_Tziek]

Some dutch studens ofcourse also don't have the posibility to stay at home. For them and international students, you can get priority housing. Meaning a guaranteed place to rent. At least in Amsterdam, many other universities and hoge scholen have this available as well, however, you NEED to ask. There are a lot of resources available for students, but you need to ring the alarm bel with your school.

[@Caprifool]

I've followed my ex move to his first place and he had to put in flooring, change cabinets, buy a fridge etc etc. At his own expense. Sounded very odd to me as a Swede who always had all that provided by the landlord. They even refurbished the place I'm in and let me choose wallpaper, the colour floor etc. But, the downside is. I'm stuck with what I get. If I want a new faucet, forget it. Maybe not have a 50:50 fridge, freezer, forget it. Change my cooker, forget it. Wonky cabinets, forget.......you get my drift. They'll change whatever it is when it's worn out or breaks down, and not sooner. If my ex want a new faucet or whatever, he just buys one and installs it. So there's more freedom that way. I'm not sure what I'd prefer. But I'd like to have more say when I have a permanent contract.

[@jandebrabander6304]

That final point is maybe also the reason the apartments are given without all the basics because if it feels like your apartment and you can't just be kicked out, you want to make it your own and get the floor and kitchen and stuff you like.

[@DutchAmericano]

Indeed!

[@War4Skills]

I don' think it is normal that international students have to stay in hostels for long periods of time, but in all honesty, isn't it your own responsibility as well to check what your housing options of the country you are going to study... I am not sure what these students were promised, but it is pretty common knowledge at this point that there is a housing crisis in the Netherlands.

[@anniehope8651]

True. Even native students have to wait many years for student housing. For most it takes so long that they only get a room after their graduation. I understand that it is hard for foreign students, but it is also hard for the native students to see the foreign students getting the available rooms they are waiting for for many years. Also, the Universities don't own dorms or anything, so you can only get a room from a student housing organisation, which have waiting lists of many years, or go on the private market which is usually more expensive. Schools and Universities never provide or arrange housing for their students. (I once had a foreign student in my year who was complaining that the room she got wasn't clean. Most of us were like: We would kill for a room, no matter how dirty it is! We will have to wait for 4 more years. Just be glad you got something!)

[@michaelazangeres]

I think schools should stop bringing people in from abroad if they can't guarantee housing. You can't expect a 17/18 year old to figure this all out by themselves

[@War4Skills]

@@michaelazangeres True

[@clintonherring]

I've been here about 6 months and the floor thing still puzzles me. What do people do with the floors that they take with them? The previous tenant sold their floors to us.

[@judithmurray1239]

In Australia ‘unfurnished’ doesn’t have a fridge

[@DutchAmericano]

Didn't know that!

[@anniehope8651]

And rightfully so. Who would want to use someone else's fridge? Eww.

[@Nomisteaks80]

I moved out of a place where I put a very nice floor in myself. The next tennants didn't want it (wanted a slighter dark brown) so I had to take it all out. That sucked. But it's normal.

[@penwithoutasword9459]

In the 90s I rented rooms. Renting apartments was expensive. When buying a house, seeing it Casco 'kaal' is preferable because you would see 'hidden' problems you would otherwise miss.

[@marjonmaf4684]

Casco usually does not means the same as "kaal". Casco most often is used for a newly build house and generally means also without kitchen and bathroom (cabinets and appliances).

[@penwithoutasword9459]

@@marjonmaf4684 ah ok. So that goes even further then. Thanks!

[@wisecat.]

when I moved into my current home, the previous tennant said she'd leave the floor, fridge, dishwasher, fixed storage cabinets and more things. She wanted a 1000 euro's for it as a goodwill. I said to her that I was prepared to pay goodwill but only to a maximum of 100 euro's. She shook her head and didn't take it and said she will take everything with her. In the end she left me the floor, storage cabinets, curtains all in very good shape for free. She took the fridge and dishwasher. Fine by me, I got my own. Let this be a lesson. Never pay a 1000 euro's goodwill, even if it seems reasonable. Always say no more than a 100 euro's. I am 90% certain they'll leave the floor and if you' re lucky other things too.

[@Crises79]

I’ve let out my house in Leiden for a few years before I sold it, and damned if that hasn’t been the best decision ever. Furnished with all amenities, catering for foreigners who did not want to stay for longer than a year and a half. I could pay my mortgage and live on it (ok, not luxuriously), and see the value of my property skyrocket in those four years.

[@AnnieBellet]

Every time we've moved in the Netherlands (and when we moved here from the US) we used a makelaar and it was an easy, pleasurable experience where we never had a problem finding somewhere great within our budget (we lived in Amsterdam and then Den Haag/Scheveningen). I highly recommend if you can afford a makelaar fee, do it, because it takes all the headache out. Every time I hear other people's rental horror stories I am so glad we spent the extra money to save ourselves headache, time, and potential heartache.

[@mariadebake5483]

To do that, you have to have that money in the first place. Most expats do have that money. Most Dutch people don't. So yes for expats it's relatively easy to find housing. For us it isn't.

[@anniehope8651]

I'm sorry, that sounds like advicing someone who can't find an affordable winter coat to go the the Claudia Strater store and buy one. They have plenty! 95% of the people, foreign or not, can't afford a verhuurmakelaar or anything they offer, especially in the expensive regions of Amsterdam of The Hague.

[@mariadebake5483]

@@anniehope8651 I absolutely agree

[@maritdegoede9119]

lmao i rent a 'kaal' student studio apartment; i got it completely new with bare drywall, concrete walls, concrete floors, and just the kitchen cabinets, and honestly, i love it! to me it meant that i got to completely make it my own, as the floors and the colours on the walls were exactly what i wanted, as well as the kitchen appliances and things like curtains and lamps! but when i leave this place, i wouldnt take my floor with me lol, people usually sell it to the next tenant!

[@DutchAmericano]

That sounds amazing! And indeed, forgot about how you could of course sell it to the next person renting.

[@anniehope8651]

@@DutchAmericano You can, but you can't force the next person to buy your floor. If they don't want to, you'll have to take it out.

[@r.i.p.theovangogh1848]

Tiny country, that's what many people say. Just go from Middelburg to Groningen-city : My American sister in law repeatedly said (while we were driving highway) : 'aren't we there yet ? Sometimes it will take you more than three hours by car or train to go from Limburg for exemple to Friesland or northern Holland to Zeeland. For inter-European countries Netherlands is ofcourse relatively small but not tiny at all... 🌹❣🍺

[@colibri1]

There's a housing crisis in the US, too, because housing prices, including for rentals, are going up while pay and employment opportunities are not, making it impossible for many to meet the now-standard US requirement that tenants make three times the amount of the rent to even be considered for living in a place, a norm that wasn't a requirement twenty years ago but has been now for a while. Hence the growing homelessness in cities there (the US has had Great Depression levels of mass homelessness for forty years now, but it is getting worse due to increased evictions during the pandemic, which still occur even though they are officially forbidden). In the US, too, there's no rent control, so I've known people who have had their rent suddenly double and I myself have lived in places where the rent increased by forty dollars every few months, meaning it happened repeatedly within a short period of time.

[@hdekker8090]

At the end of your Vlog is the answer to the unfurnished houses. Mainley people stay for a longer time in an appartment/ or rented house. So you can make ik your own and than it becomes a home! Beside the fact you are protected bij Dutch Laws against the landlord, we also protected bij the dutch laws for our jobs! So its nice to have a steady ob and a steady home!

[@yvonnekremers4354]

The reason rental places come as bare as possible is that when it's already in there, the owner of the place is technically responsible for the state of it. N.B. Reality differs from theory here.

[@expatfamilylive9041]

We were lucky to rent a fully furnished house in Almere in February. But we were also surprised to see that there are places without floors.....

[@atarvos8686]

All the houses are without Floors, unless you are lucky. Furnished houses are rare and mostly expensive

[@mariadebake5483]

@@atarvos8686 Besides what Dutch person would want an already furnished house? Almost no one. You want to choose your own stuff

[@BNJ24]

@@mariadebake5483 I can understand that if you are going to rent long term but how do you know if it's a good building or apartment if you haven't lived in it for a while. It seems people are pressured and rushed to make a decision that could be bad. Then you have to spend a lot of money on an apartment you might leave in a year. I saw this happen to someone.

[@mariadebake5483]

@@BNJ24 That's something that can happen, life is unpredictable. There's always going to be a risk. Doesn't change anything though imo. Just take your stuff with you. Besides with this housingcrisis you can't afford to be choosy. You just consider yourself extremely lucky to finally HAVE a place of your own!

[@BNJ24]

@@mariadebake5483 I totally understand. I tell my self this everyday. I have an overpriced shitty apartment, but hey, I’m living the dream in the Netherlands!

[@PrinceWalacra]

It’s a matter of supply and demand… a seller’s / landlord’s market

[@albertlay8927]

This is new to me, that a room in a dorm costs (extra) money, let alone that it is really expensive. I always assumed that the dorm was included in the tuition.

[@mariadebake5483]

Since when? Why in heaven should a place to live be included in the tuiton fees? Sometimes I think people just want to have EVERYTHING for free!

[@anniehope8651]

@@mariadebake5483 I guess it is the custom in America. Here it is just not. And because of that tuition fees are very low. Housing is your own responsibility. There are advantages to that too. For example that higher education is affordable for everyone and you don't need to win scholarships in beauty pageants and what not, lol. A disadvantage is that there is a permanent student housing shortage and that it can be expensive. But many students can find ways to work around that.

[@mariadebake5483]

@@anniehope8651 Yes I know 😊

[@mavadelo]

People that rent "kaal" are long time renters. These places are meant for 10, 15 years or longer. You will grow old there, get kids there. It's the family home. So you want to get your own choice of floor, be it a cheap linoleum or an expensive marble floor. You want the kitchen exacly how you want it to look with the appliances and brands you want, not the cheap 20 dollar microwave. There are several different renting markets. Yours, that of (international) students, is completely seperate from the long time rentingi market. Within that long time renting market (if you stay for many years after your student times you will get to deal with it) has both a private (very expensive) and Social housing branch. Both those markets are locked currently as well basically and for those it is also true that Covid might have contributed in the last 2 years but it has been difficult to rent for many years. I have been looking for another place in the social housing market for about 6 years now (registered with "woningnet" for at least 10) and still the succes indicator they give for me is listed as "very low chance" after all those years.

[@shadeblackwolf1508]

People want to plan early but the market is just so busy. And most people are on indefinite term leases

[@cornetgirl2000]

Happy Halloween!!! 👻👻👻

[@DutchAmericano]

Thank you!

[@chiara54813]

i really wouldn't want to move in a place with a fridge included. only if it is in really good (clean!) condition would I accept that. this is funny because i got most of my appliances pre-owned (stove, freezer, fridge, laundry machine). But somehow me choosing witch one i want makes all the difference.

[@atarvos8686]

No, sharing hostel beds is not normal. But its a fact. And indeed, the country does have a housing problem. To solve it, we need to build a city as Amsterdam within a year, and Then there still is no surplus. And no, do not rent on marktplaats. There are several websites. As expat its more easy because compagnies where you work , Will help you. But the biggest difference between the Netherlands and the usa is the woningbouw vereniging , and the rights you have as the one who rents. And yes Floors, fridge, of as we call it witgoed are your own property. And if you are living together, always make sure the tennants contract is on Both you're name.

[@dirkdemeirleir264]

I think the things you find weird about the dutch housing market is caused by the overheated housing market. This is not the case in the south (Zeeland) or Belgium at large

[@robinwillemsen2003]

When will you make the part 2 of the Sinterklaas video?

[@leokombrink2285]

some people like me want to decorating my house at my own taste, usuelly you get a cheap fridge who use alot electricity so i like to choose my own floor and kitchen stuff, but im the lucky own who owns a house in amsterdam for a cheap price

[@DutchAmericano]

Ah, that is lucky!

[@CorinnePritchard]

The situation in England is similar to America, but with lower quality housing and landlords with an iron fist. It's available, it's pretty expensive for what it is, and the owners have total control over what you can do in the house. As a result, you're rarely allowed to paint (at least not without promising in writing to return to its original condition, even if that condition was terrible), even putting a nail in the wall to hang a painting is forbidden. Pets are almost universally not allowed without paying through the nose. Concerns like black mould (very common!) are rarely addressed because they know they can just rent it out to someone who doesn't care. I'm told Dutch renting is more in line with the EU mandate of 'every house a home', but I guess that has some drawbacks! Total freedom to make the house your own - painting, carpet, floors, pets, circus performers - whatever you want. Total freedom to wreck it, too. I hadn't heard that it had gotten so bad that the wrecked versions were just being rented out as is - I'd heard you had to return it in the condition you found it. But I guess if you found it a mess, it's okay to leave it a mess?! Definitely extremely rude, and making life very difficult for renters (which is nearly everyone since the housing market is so terrible right now).

[@gerbentvandeveen]

We wonen nu meer als 20 jaar in ons. Oude vissershuis "1925". In Spakenburg. We kunnen het verkopen voor.?? Maar als we nu een ander huis willen kopen, met een slaapkamer beneden. €500000/€600000.

[@michaelazangeres]

upholstered places actually don't always come with fridges I have an upholstered place without a fridge 🙄 it's like a coin toss and the floors, well people usually buy their own floors or buy them from the last tenant. The last tenant will usually rip you off though and literally charge you the sane price as a new floor for one that's been sitting there for 12 years😅

[@martinjjnoagenda5536]

In many towns like mine, you can find corporations owning affordable rental housing and in joint efforts offering places that come available. You need to enlist for a small fee every year. Usually with a website where you can search and select something you like. The ones longest on the list get the first choice. If you don't want it for whatever reason, it goes to the next on the list. But you can't keep declining many times until you find your dream house. They'll boot you down the list again. It's only so crazy now, most people are on such lists for like 10 or 15 years before even getting a chance on any place. It's absurd and many young people wanting to live together, start a family never get any chance. If you don't want any of this or can't wait that long, you can search on the 'free housing rental market', but those places are usually way more expensive, if even available in the first place these days, as you already noticed. For the biggest part the Dutch government caused all these problems over the last decade in various ways and it's not going to be solved any time soon.

[@void_star_void]

I've been in Amsterdam for two to three weeks and the exp has been horrifying I'm not shy to say it this really sucks! this is a major problem. And I'm an expat, don't know how the poor students tackle the problem! If I came with a partner I'm pretty sure she would've left after one week :D

[@bffnbffn]

2/3 of my income gos to rent exclusief rent. I do low educated work and have no education only basic school

[@DenUitvreter]

What do you do with the fridge you already own? That one you chose to buy, why not move with the rest of the stuff? If everyone simply moves all their shit there is no issue. The top floor is a matter of taste, and they wear out. Often the leaving renter has it on offer for the new renter, just like the curtains. This is an interesting negotiation because the seller is busy enough with his own moving house and doesn't feel like removing the floor, while the buyer fakes looking forward to laying a new floor and adding costs, or simply really hates the green carpet but loves the curtains. But that's only often cheap top floors, carpet, laminate. Wooden floors are a different matter, a sanding and a lacquer job often. Just like painting the walls, it's a matter of freshing up and making it your own.

[@carbon1255]

Refrigerators are expensive to transport and often break due to the movement of cooling fluid. They are not designed to be transported after installation. In her case she was flying from the US, that isn't exactly cheap with a fridge in tow. Also, many kitchens in Europe require different size fridges or under cabinet fridges so your one won't necessarily fit.

[@DenUitvreter]

@@carbon1255 You had to let the cooling fluid settle down for half a day before switching it on. That's common knowledge, same with delivery of a new one. Fridges have a only a few standardized sizes, so a regular one will fit. Of course Dutch moving and renting practices don't cater to transatlantic movers.

[@anniehope8651]

That might also be a reason fridges are not as rediculously large as the average American ones. They have to be movable. It is common that you take your fridge and washer from one house to the other.

[@michaelsmith4904]

Wow this kind of puts me off want to move to the NL…

[@willemh3319]

sorry Eva i rent out rooms to students in our contracts there is a list of legal points by government it is not correct what yoy were saying at the moment you move in they check with you avout the conditio of the space if it is cleaned by the previous renter that is why the deposit between th 1st person and 2nd the rooms are painted and or cleaned if it was not cleaned the cleaningcosts are deducted from your deposit, all legally

[@mtillery8915]

Hello all!! What about pet policy? I have 3 little dogs And my husband and i are looking to move to the Netherlands but most posts never mention pet policy.

[@anniehope8651]

Well, since you have to bring your own carpet, nobody cares about hair, smell and possible indoor accidents. Usually pets are allowed as long as they aren't noisy. Often there is more of a certain plant policy than a pet policy. ;) All jokes aside, it really depends on the kind of housing if pets are allowed. In regular family homes and appartments rented out by agencies they usually are. If you rent a private furnished home they usually are not.

[@Dutchbelg3]

When you are a Dutchie you can subscribe to a communal renting program. It means the city community has a collection of places to rent and you can get an offer to rent for a reasonable price. The catch is there is a points-system. The Number 1 on this list gets the first available renting place. So I the previous renter dies, moves or buys a house themselves and leave.. the No. 1 gets an offer to rent. You can refuse the offer once or sometimes twice before you start losing points. Points are credited for being raised in that city community, having a low income, social alarming situations and the number of years you are listed (and some other reasons). Some people are on this list for 5 or more years!

[@klemmr3233]

We just went through the same process to get an allotment.

[@mariadebake5483]

Only for 5 years or so? Make it 10 years at least!

[@anniehope8651]

It depends on the municipality how the points/waiting list system works.

[@gert-janvanderlee5307]

It's not just Amsterdam and Utrecht anymore. Yes, those are probably the worst but it's impossible to find affordable housing everywhere. People are paying rediculous prices for buildings in which you didn't even want to be found dead a few years ago. Now those get sold for 400.000 and more.

[@williammccoy7127]

Most Dutch students are living in other places then where they study . Is within a reasonable distance then oké but otherwise you do need a room.

[@gerbentvandeveen]

Het wordt gevraagd, als je weg gaat uit een huurwoning om het: "kaal". Op te leveren. Dat is iets waar je niet omheen kan. De vloer en behang, moet weg!!! Als je zelf een verbetering, hebt gemaakt in de keuken of badkamer, kan het zo zijn dat je ook dat weg moet halen en terug brengen in de oude staat. Met kopen heb je dat probleem minder.

[@mikepictor]

Daylight savings ended, not started.

[@InonoYazy]

I like to wake up with the sun. So living in the Netherlands is like... :( I am searching for an apartment in Utrecht. For me, it's insane that there are apartments without anything, like a kitchen, fridge and even floor. And I'm not from US. I don't know how they came to that, but for me even buying furniture for a rental is a bit... I don't want to invest in housing, where I don't plan to live for more than 2-3 years. For example - if I buy a couch, I don't know if it'll suit the next apartment with size or colour and moving it beetween isn't easy.

[@ronalddolman2654]

Beware, don't make the assumption that it will be lighter when you wake up from now on. Then you have to sleep until at least 9am within a few weeks ;-)

[@PatrickAllenNL]

Eva my 20 year old American niece is visiting Amsterdam this week. Your timing is perfect

[@fiskurtjorn7530]

What if you love the house and its location, but dislike the wallpaper, flooring, curtains? You do not rent or buy the place? Well, it is way better to make the house a home by decorating it with stuff you really like and not pay for stuff you gonna throw out the next day.

[@DutchLabrat]

Why do so many Dutch Universities don't have a campus and (enough) student dormitories? This happened in Leiden where the first Dutch state university started with some professors teaching students in their homes. The first and for quite a while after only uni building back then was a former nunnery gifted by the city..... The leiden uni has basically been mooching student housing and even much off their own property off of the city ever since. Seriously, their attempt to imperiously point at inner city social housing and claiming it was theirs now for a humanities faculty building had to be stopped by a referendum!!! Now the locals start to resist it is very obvious universities are still not that involved in wherever their students live or how or for what cost and expect this to be magically resolved by the city.

[@shadeblackwolf1508]

I'm a well paid IT specialist and i can't afford a 2 bedroom home (NL)

[@nagranoth_]

Pretty sure demanding students to live in university dorms would be illegal in the Netherlands. I'm actually not sure a university would be allowed to have their own dorms as it's a clear conflict of interests.

[@CobisTaba]

Some universities have their own dorms, that is not a problem. Perhaps formally separated into a company, under their main ‘stichting’ but legal anyway. Don’t think forcing people to live there is allowed :)

[@nagranoth_]

@@CobisTaba if it's separated in a stichting it's not a conflict of interest anymore as they aren't allowed to make profit or move money. So it's not the universities dorm practically speaking, it's an independent dorm that happens to be near the university. Clearly not the situation referenced in the video.

[@CobisTaba]

@@nagranoth_ what most do is having a stichting with the university and a separate BV under that stichting. That BV runs the dorms and other commercial activities. Technically they can make profit, it just goes to the stichting again.

[@nagranoth_]

@@CobisTaba yeah, ok, but the _point_ is the _university_ can't use that to force students to live there and bleed them dry.

[@tonnyengert]

Everybody has to remove there floors except when it is new a a new renter wants to take it. Otherwise you remove it

[@williamgeardener2509]

It would be great if universities in the Netherlands would be forced to build housing for their students. In that way shady landlords wouldn't be able to charge students 500 Euros per month for a 12 square meter room in a dilapidated house they have to share with 5 other people. It would also be better for the residential areas because people living there wouldn't have to deal with noisy parties till 4 in the morning from students who don't care that their neighbors are working people who have to get up at 7 to go to work. Those neighbors also wouldn't have to deal with houses that look like they are condemned, occupied by people who don't care that their frontyard looks like a dump.

[@pppetra]

And where would they put these buildings? Also not sure if building student cities is a good Idea. 20000 students with Just nothing but students migth be leasing to completely new problems.

[@Rob2]

You better be prepared for even more darkness in the morning! At the moment we have daylight savings time, but some people think that is "bad for your biorithm" or some such, and they want to abolish it. Discussion comes up every time the time changes, and now even the EU is in favor of it. The problem is then "what time will we choose to use year-around". Of course the natural thing would be to use standard time, i.e. winter time. But that would mean that the evenings get shorter in summer. And also, people associate "summer time" with "nice weather", and that is what they want to have. So when the people on the street are queried, they mostly want to have daylight saving time all year. But for you that will mean that in winter, the sun will not rise until between 9 and 10 in the morning, and it will be dark very long in the morning. We have to hope that this decision is not made, but frankly the chances are high that it will be, also because some people think "we have to have the same time as Germany" (while looking at our location we really would have to have the same time as England!). In Germany of course the sun rises earlier so it does not affect them as much as it does us, and they are more likely to choose daylight saving time than standard time, and then "we would have to follow that".

[@mariadebake5483]

I sincerely hope they won't change the time, it's really not understandable to me. I can't imagine it leads to such problems as some people want you to believe. I don't understand why the EU wants to change it either

[@eckligt]

@@mariadebake5483 This started in Finland as a citizens' initiative, i.e. voters organized and forced the government to study the question. It was then brought up in the EU, which commissioned polls to gauge puplic opinion. And the results showed public support for no longer changing the clocks twice a year. Remember, the initiative is about stopping to change clocks twice a year. The people who favour the current system are in favour of changing clocks twice a year. The default should of course be that clocks should not change twice a year, unless there is a very good reason to do so. That reason seems to have disappeared, so it's completely appropriate that the EU, and the world, ditches DST. The big question is of course what time to choose as the new permanent time. This is, however, a false dichotomy, because as Rob pointed out, winter time is the standard time. And science gives further answers; as Rob also indicated, NL should really use British time. There is a great map at Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_zone#/media/File:World_Time_Zones_Map.png The scientifically accurate or so-called "nautical" timezones, which can be seen in the open ocean in the map, are based purely on degrees East/West (longitude), and you can see the line separating UTC (British time, previously known as GMT) from UTC+1 strays far from the ideal line, to accomodate political decisions in NL, Belgium, Luxembourg, continental France and continental Spain to use UTC+1 even though they lie fully inside the ideal UTC area (except France which has some tiny parts that belong in UTC+1 and Spain which has a small corner sticking into UTC-1 territory). Before WW2, NL observed Amsterdam time, which was GMT+0:20, while France observed GMT. The Nazi occupiers imposed a change to GMT+1, and this was kept after the war.

[@mariadebake5483]

@@eckligt I know all this. But for me, I'll hate it if they abolish the summer/winter time. And strangely enough I don't know anyone around me that's in favour of this measure, everyone prefers it to stay as it is. I don't see any reason for it whatsoever.

[@carbon1255]

It isn't people, its statistics. There are a huge number of heart attacks and tiredness related accidents when the clocks go back. In addition to that, It is a huge hassle for agricultural workers and other fields. There is also only detriment without any beneficial effect of changing the time. Businesses can freely chose to change their hours in the summer and winter if they wish. There is no reason to change the clock out of alignment with the sun.

[@eckligt]

@@mariadebake5483 Thanks. I can only respect your opinion, even though I can't understand it. I wonder if the background is simply that this is the system you've grown up with, or if you would actually espouse _adopting_ DST if it did not currently exist. To me, the thing that really seals the deal (in favour of abolishing DST) is that it is completely arbitrary. The original arguments made when DST have been adopted seems specious to me, and could just as well have gone in the opposite direction, i.e. subtracting an hour in the summer instead of adding, because then you can have the extra benefit of long bright mornings (instead of long bright evenings).

[@mikepictor]

“Don’t come with floors” I don’t understand what this I even means. Floors are part of the building structure. You can’t “take” the floor.

[@katiedid7231]

I think all apartments come with subflooring, but it's the finished flooring (be it hardwood, laminate or tile) is what's removed by the tenant when they vacate.

[@mariadebake5483]

@@katiedid7231 Why don't they say so then?

[@mikepictor]

@@katiedid7231 they REMOVE the hardwood/laminate?!?!

[@chiara54813]

@@mikepictor yes you are required to if you don't the rental company will do it but sent you the bill.