UNITED FALL SHORT! Wrong Subs? Crystal Palace vs Man United | LIVE Fan's Forum

[@manchesteraholic5859]

Game changed as soon as Zirksee was taken off. Bruno was woeful!! Him and Rashford are the odd ones out now. They disrupt team chemistry. The rest are in sync with one another, we shouldve been 4 up by half time!

[@TheMufc123]

We weren't 4 up at half time because garnacho missed all the chances, why are you blaming rashford? 😂

[@AdamH93]

Bruno not coming off for dropping a stinker was an awful decision from ten hag.

[@oasis9474]

Zirkzie was linking all our play why take him off this team has a long way to go bit unlucky but didnt take our chances and could have lost that game in the end so wel tske the point

[@EmmanuelgaiDung]

It's an upper management thing.Did little digging and found out certain players like bruno and Rashford are a must to be played because it boasts sells of merch last season it was rumoured that ETH had a clash with some people from the glazers side of united because he wasn't playing our no 7 and it was affecting the sells of merchandise which meant him doing the job of the field didnt matter !!!

[@moi4863]

I agree with Rickey. Mainoo, Ugarte, and Erickson is the best midfield available

[@TheMufc123]

Mount or zirkzee in the 10nand hojljnd up front would be other options, anything except Bruno really

[@ljab9023]

@@TheMufc123bruno is Miles better than mount mount is shite and injury prome

[@McElvisss]

As frustrating as it is, I’d much rather be top of the “missed chances” table than bottom of the “chances created” table. Putting the ball in the back of the net is a much easier problem to fix than a lack of creativity. And when you do fix it, the goals will flow.

[@dpurpleboi]

Made a lot of sense but we want to win and get back to winning ways but yea

[@ChoreoVibes]

Bruno has been bad since LAST SEASON. He made 6 good games at the end of the season and people forgot how bad he was all along

[@Bailwaljustice]

I agree we need to sell him next season just take 30 mil for him and let him go cause his legs are almost gone and he does not look like someone who cares his passes so poor even i can see them intercepted before they are

[@shonishash3298]

He's been bad for the last three seasons now. Today's bad game is yet another out of many bad games he's had.

[@anthonyhurn1988]

Lol you mention the only 6 games he played well last season. You obviously don't remember the last 4 years

[@john-tr8jy]

How come no one has noticed Bruno tends to let us down EVERY TIME we need the points to move closer to the TOP 4. It's been a pattern for a while now. It's very suspect.

[@ljab9023]

Bad last season when we had the most injuries in the league nobody was good last season 🤡

[@JB-vv1xc]

I am honestly so fed up of this rashford Bruno era I can’t wait for it to be over

[@giveittomikey9094]

Why is Bruno undroppable

[@fsu3328]

The day Bruno is dropped we will see massive improvement in Man utd

[@gordon7454]

Captain

[@kayjay8683]

Because of Beth

[@barneystinson786]

Beth gives him head everyday

[@nathanwilliams1334]

@@kayjay8683😂😂

[@Sb81022]

Everyone jumping on bruno.... mate the guys been doing this since his second season in its not just now he's been giving the ball away picking the wrong passes making the wrong decisions now people want to moan its been going on much longer real football fans who watch week in and week out know this gotta to get him off

[@BrianKamau-t2d]

Exactly. Real ones have been calling him out for a long time

[@EmmanuelgaiDung]

Its funny you say this did his pay stop for a day in this period ?? So whats his excuse?? truth is bruno is not a possession base player and of we truly are evolving into that then he will struggle of he doesnt change he pattern of play!!

[@brooksabiye6295]

Unpopular opinion.... CASEMIRO can play Bruno's position very very comfortably... He has always shown brilliance in pasing going forward...and also can shoot

[@anilsekharc7475]

@@brooksabiye6295 what does Bruno do other than kick the ball away whever he gets it and run around. Any school boy can do what Bruno does

[@MitchSanderson-340i]

I said in June Bruno needs to be sold. He’s 30 this month and would have brought in about £40-50m from Saudi to help rebuild the squad. Now he’s got a new deal and is undropable. As long as Bruno is Captain and at the club, we will never win the league.

[@nyantaicuy-v8i]

mazraoui dalot zirkzee mainoo amad are soooo comfortable with the ball proper posession-based football players. bruno's skill just isnt as good as they are, and he's simply regressed.

[@JB-vv1xc]

Why are you all acting like it’s a surprise bruno played like this. He plays like this the majority of the time

[@Eddie_theEagle]

Very well said.

[@bikesnippets]

The fact is that the last change that needs making in this squad is getting rid of Bruno and Rashford. Those two are moments players, but their moment comes.onve every 50 attempted moments. They are momentum and possession killers.

[@ciarangreaney1265]

Rickeys ball knowledge is unreal

[@joetownsend8305]

When he’s not waffling about Evan’s mct etc he speaks alot of less

[@henryugwa682]

@@joetownsend8305 But evans and mctominay are not bad players just not used the right way, constantly used by managers that hang them out to dry

[@yasuof3291]

@@joetownsend8305evans was actually a quality footballer tho i dont understand the hate for him. He’s probably too old now but that doesnt mean he was ever bad.

[@fiachla]

​@@yasuof3291don't think anyone has hate towards him. He knows his role as a backup and he has so much experience at the highest level. I'm delighted he's there. But Maguire and Lindelof need to go. De Ligt and Martinez were rock solid yesterday and with Yoro coming back, Maguire and Lindelof will only get cup games

[@xanateixeira1356]

ETH does not read the game. It’s almost as if he decides the substitutions before the game starts 😅

[@manchesteraholic5859]

Eth is building something nicely. Most of his signings are in sync with each other now. Including the back 5. Bruno and Rashford are the odd ones out now.

[@akira123ization]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂. That is the difference betwen mediocre and big club fans and owner. Look how chelsea starting to play something good. They never talk about progression. Expectation is so low😂😂😂😂😂.

[@manchesteraholic5859]

@@akira123ization palace were lucky to escape a hiding

[@TheMufc123]

He still gets his subs incredibly wrong, the last 15 minutes were awful because of his poor subs. He isn't building anything btw, we have 7points out of 15 and the back 5 are in sync? We got beat 3-0 the other week 😂

[@manchesteraholic5859]

@@TheMufc123 wrong wrong wrong

[@TheMufc123]

@manchesteraholic5859 good argument that pal 😂😂

[@DanielBurtonsj]

Thanks for having me on 🙌

[@NathanWheatley-bc2xo]

Suiiiiii

[@hoodplays9380]

At this point eriksen should replace bruno in cam

[@erikarzensek]

Once you begin to listen to ricky, these results are easier to understand and get by

[@Michael-2Australia]

How many games has Shaw played in the last two seasons? Very good player,but how can you build a team ,with him ...he is never there

[@emilejonas3142]

Eirksen and Bruno are our creative players. Play Eriksen in place of Bruno. And put mainoo and ugarte at the back. Why buy ugarte and not start him. This way you create competition for Bruno. If you have a bad game like Bruno then bench him. I get he is good on his day but he played crap, didn't take his chances and competition might be good for him.

[@stariqa2]

Mount is supposed to be replacement for Bruno. Unfortunately both Mount and Erickson aren't consistent enough to bench Bruno.

[@Rivler20]

​@@stariqa2But we don't know that because Bruno has to play everytime.

[@jeans5852]

I love Bruno but we have a captain that goes round praising other rival players & doesn't take responsibility for his own performances 😡 I hate this friendly rivalry b***s***

[@civildiscourse7626]

Irrelevant he was poor before he commented on a rival

[@JimJones-oh6kt]

Well they stupidly extended his contract for no reason so like Rashford he's now comfortable and is now pipe and slippers on

[@ppate8]

Should have tried to sell him this summer and if not let him leave on a cheap in 2025

[@GeorgePapps]

You got to be stevie wonder to rate garnacho above amad, his general play is terrible i see amad not signing and leaving free in the summer if ten hag keeps this up, amad is better than rashford and garnacho and he gives us better control of a game...... our attack absolutely died when amad went off

[@benjamin6173]

well Stevie Wonder is a genius so.... maybe try that again

[@GeorgePapps]

@@gracesheridan-d7l 15 more minutes

[@manchesteraholic5859]

Hojlund and Zirksee need to start together. Drop Bruno. Zirksee is a team player, Bruno is a Hollywood player.

[@LachlanHawkins]

Why take Zirkzee off! He was creating chances.

[@gee6924]

This year we’ll be competing with likes of Brentford,Brighton, Fulham and Newcastle. We will be lucky if we make it for the Europa League next season

[@PeterLemon-y5m]

Lots of fans saying Utd have improved from last year 4-0 How about (more to the point) Palace were noway near the side they were last year 🤷‍♂️🤔

[@Thegreyreaperuk]

We don’t have a proper goalscorer. Zirkzee isn’t, Rashford isn’t, Rasmus isn’t.

[@LINTON1985]

Something looked different about onana. His positioning looked better and he actually dived and saved a powerful low shot then got up and made the double. Hopefully he builds on this

[@henryg3313]

He looks thinner

[@fiachla]

​@@henryg3313I spotted that too. That double save was fantastic!

[@jaikumarsukumaran6948]

United need to look for another player with the same calibre of zirksee to substitute him and for team to continue to the style of play in his absence

[@Majorroadworks]

The Zirkzee substitution is an example of Ten Hag’s lack of knowledge of his own squad. He’s almost saying to himself how can I get myself sacked

[@TheMufc123]

It shows his lack of coaching ability and how he has favourites. Zirkzee should never have come off

[@Redvil01]

I agree that Bruno should have been subbed instead of Zirkzee. Bruno is still dangerous but he's too unsharp. He looks fatigued from all the games he has to play, and tired players make more mistakes. Give Mount or Zirkzee a chance in his position.

[@ppate8]

Bruno, Eriksen and Mount all play the same position. Zirkzee plays a little further forward. I don't know why the club keeps buying similar players

[@fmsrob91]

I'd like to see a midfield of casemiro, ugarte, and Mainoo

[@brendinpillay6026]

Zirkzee should play behind rasmus it will transform this team big time

[@fiachla]

Agreed!

[@ppate8]

Yes correct but the problem is they brought so badly and now gonna suffer. Zirkzee needs to play off a striker!

[@shonishash3298]

ETH should start Bruno against Twente. It's the bloody Europa League. What ETH definitely needs to do is drop Bruno against Tottenham.

[@john-tr8jy]

We'll start scoring when it's mathematically impossible to make Top 4. Its as if we've signed a contract with the EPL to not make Top 4.

[@tantan-pd9si]

Should have continued with last week’s winning midfield trio of Casemiro, Eriksen & Ugarte in starting lineup . It will give confidence , stability & fluidity to the forward play

[@jordan8982]

Bruno and zirkzee doesn’t work

[@jmckeev765]

it's great to see jeffrey dahmer on the show

[@Bailwaljustice]

Let alone 4th place it will be a miracle if we finish 8th

[@kevthered9492]

You are optimistic with 8 th

[@Fumblingthroughlifeonline]

You are way too dramatic. This wasn’t that bad of a result today.

[@EnzoEden-c4u]

@@Fumblingthroughlifeonlinelet them overreact was expected from the toxic fanbase

[@realife1542]

If we bring the energy and intensity like we did in the first 60 mins the rest of the season I’m not worried. Best we’ve played since spurs a couple seasons ago

[@Tommo171UK]

​@Fumblingthroughlifeonline We are 11th with all of our rivals doing what we couldn't. It's not dramatic it's just logical. Ten Hag won't make top 4, not a chance.

[@realife1542]

Upset we didn’t win but the best performance under Eth in 18 months in terms of control and game style

[@jaikumarsukumaran6948]

I see definite positives. Happy to see a possession based United. Got to be clinical in finish

[@roymiller2859]

Ricky only see's what he wants to see and anybody could make a counter argument about what he believes is right. The facts are other top professional's think Bruno is one of the best players in the premier league and Ricky 's answer to that was some time ago "well they would say that but don't really mean it". For a bloke that thought Mctominay was better and Weghorst was our best forward that tells me everything I need to know !

[@Raj-Boukensha]

I'll never forget ricky saying Mctominay's first touch is as good as Xavi/Iniesta.

[@andrewvictor5216]

@@Raj-Boukenshabut mctominay first touch is actually really good, unless you’re really blind to see it or you don’t really know the meaning of a first touch

[@Raj-Boukensha]

@@andrewvictor5216 There is first touch and there is xavi/iniesta. I might be blind but at least I'm not dumb.

[@dookula]

"it's the players, not the manager!" except...these are all new players

[@jameswoolford2698]

Exactly this 💯

[@ryanmagee2623]

I knew from brunos debut that he was shocking. He doesnt even know how to walk properly

[@1fightdragons]

This is so funny, because it's true. He literally can't even walk or change direction properly. So glad someone else actually noticed this!

[@SkuppDponey]

I agree with the old man on the United stand for once, His analyst were 💯 Bruno captain or not should being hooked, Hagg needs to cop on ❤

[@BABY-LOVE-Mexican-Luchadora-19]

that was not a good double save by onana...he did what he always does and instead of palming around the post he pushed it back into the danger area then reacted quickly to his own mistake

[@Dave-qu5wf]

Poor finishing cost us the game period stop it with this wrong substitution crap we played well and if we can maintain that and get clinical with our finishing we are well and truly on the way to where we should be

[@ojarajarvis9323]

Looking back at the game the only problem I saw was the ball not entering the crystal palace net, we played well and if we had won the game the conversation would have been different. All together Palace manager park the bus at their home in the Second half and that killed the game.... The subs wasn't a problem and if we was winning Bruno would have not been a problem. Stop moaning. Smfh that's why I don't visit the forum often I find it a bit toxic and problematic

[@andrewvictor5216]

Just shut up, those are your own opinions! Player FC! Bruno was shambles, take that to heart and digest it. No one needs to hear nonsense from you lots

[@ojarajarvis9323]

@@andrewvictor5216 thanks for sharing your opinions also 👍🏾. Do have a bless day or night 🙏🏾💯

[@Redvil01]

@@ojarajarvis9323 They had trouble finding chances after the subs, so it was a problem.

[@DavePearson-y9c]

Hey. Palace a bit different than Barnsley.🤣

[@jaikumarsukumaran6948]

In the type of game we were playing, there doesn't look like there is any role for Bruno rhere

[@josephotoole5331]

For me, Martinez should have seen red. I still think a too footed tackle should be red!

[@TheodoraKobla]

Never even touched Kamada u hater

[@josephotoole5331]

@TheodoraKobla is not a hater one of my favourite players, but for me, it's too footed tackle, always a red. Was that way years ago when I played or watched it. I call it out when it's others so got to do it when it's us too

[@Redvil01]

@@josephotoole5331 Two footed tackle on the ball mate.

[@josephotoole5331]

@Redvil01 Yes, but it didn't matter in the 90s or earlier 00s it was dangerous play and a straight red. We have to be consistent. If someone did it to one of our players, we'd call for a red, so we have to have the same energy when it's our player.

[@patricehopeng9942]

We shouldn’t be criticising on the game Am sure ETH is analysis his game subs everything and will take note that this didn’t work out and do better next..it was positive today so let’s keep that and work on the negatives next in training and game. Critising that didn’t work out is fair but only fair if it’s repetitive mistakes

[@sanjeevbijukchhe3601]

Wrong subs for sure - Zirkzee is the main linker - Zirkzee with Houund should start

[@robbiewillis2207]

Realistically we all would have chosen the same subs. Comes down to individual performances

[@tonydarcy8371]

De light will be our captain

[@AritraBakshi-pg4zi]

Around 55-60 mins, I thought out loud that he is gonna bring Zirkzee off and bring Rashford on as a no 9 and that Eriksen will come off before Bruno who was the worst player on the pitch and we will end up drawing or losing the game. As the game went on, that is exactly what happened! That’s how predictably abysmal our manager is. Eric Ten Fraud OUT…

[@palynch]

Eriksen looked shattered by 65 mins. He can't play 90 mins at PL level anymore, he also played a full 90 mins midweek. Bruno was poor, yes but you cannot fault his engine.

[@amzofficial8868]

Would love to see zirkzee play in Bruno’s position with Rasmus upfront

[@Gaeul-j3j]

Glazed all over this team beating a league one Donnies and now they are back at their place where they belong

[@realife1542]

The game should of been put to bed in the half , today the blame isn’t on Eth he set the team up perfectly

[@jaikumarsukumaran6948]

Zirksee is undroppable.

[@nicholasmegofna5968]

You all have valid points! Ricky is right be creative and it does not matter who is the last ball into the box. I would drop him for sure! Moun lt

[@Ghostbusters-kk4lj]

i was right about Bruno once he got he's new contract he fall of same with Rashford

[@anilsekharc7475]

They were both average before the contract as well. Both are only effective against high line defences and liability against low block

[@MrNintendogamer10]

I actually completely agree with Ricky on this one, if the team isn't playing in cohesion nobody can shine hence the 8th place finish last season, but when you do start to see the team actually working together it becomes quite apparent where the problems are which in that game was bruno and has been bruno for the first 4 games of the season

[@chuckthecheese]

Bruno needs to go he is in the same position as rashford they represent what keeps holding the club back from evolving

[@dpurpleboi]

Rashi is working, I don’t think his that big of a problem

[@clayedwards7191]

Ricky being proved right again.. in a ball playing team Bruno and rashford are found wanting

[@sneakykebab]

Good football is winning games, Chelsea were in chaos last season & they’re winning games, Villa almost got relegated & they’re winning games. It comes back to ten hag….he’s clueless & out of his depth!

[@Talawa1]

Beth Bruno is a CLASS player ! Just that the CL is silent.

[@sqae8398]

What an improvement in United. Clear plan, just no goals today. The fact that Rashford and Hojlund can't keep the pressure going is a testament to their lack of quality. Eriksen was starting to get leggy and Palace were starting to break in and get chances, due to Eriksen's slow pace and lack of defensive ability. A shame we can't get a midfielder with Eriksen's vision. Garnacho should have been subbed in for Rashford, who should have started on the left.

[@satjinder]

I understand Bruno takes unnecessary risks when we should be trying to keep possession. I don’t think he can be managed to do that because that’s the way he plays. More worrying for me is ten hag’s lack of coaching acumen. When the opposition coach makes changes we don’t react to them so it’s often the case they improve and we get worse. It’s like he doesn’t know how to manage in-game. That worries me more

[@laza1212]

Finally, people are realising just how limited Bruno & Rashford are. The way they play the game, doesn't suit modern football.

[@pleopod]

Good results - happy with that.

[@PatrickMorrison-wf6ei]

Beth l don't understand your fascination with Bruno. He messes up the patterns of play. Ten Hag also hasn't a clue.

[@jameswoolford2698]

💯

[@peezebeuponyou3774]

The thought processes at United are baffling at times. 10H persists with Rashford serving up dross every week for months, then when he hits a bit of form, drops him...

[@bran756]

Thanks Beth,totally agree part from that cross bar ha,cheers Beth.😊

[@anilsekharc7475]

What does Bruno do other than kicking the ball forward? And some people think this is creative!

[@Ty-vj4lb]

I don’t understand what people rate about Hojlund. He’s shown us nothing yet

[@NathanWheatley-bc2xo]

True tbf

[@benjamin6173]

its ironic how you can praise McTominay for 5 years and suddenly hate Buno for "not creating"

[@anilsekharc7475]

Bruno simply kicks the ball forward whenever he gets it. He doesnt know anything else

[@rob28882]

You say Ten Hag made the wrong subs. I say who is possession based he can bring on? Ten Hag is trying to manage his players from burn out and keeping them fresh. This is a job for the recruitment team to get him more players who are like for like. Every squad needs a few direct players. But United have too many compared to possession based players. This is why it is called a longterm project. Because we don't have all the right pieces to the puzzle yet. Patience is what is needed right now. Not crying about something we can't fix yet. It's a process. I'm disappointed today because we could of won this game comfortably. But I see that we are improving and going in the right direction finally.

[@dannymahon6929]

I don't disagree with your comment. But if you want more possession or to maintain possession better, we could have brought on Mount. Or move Zirkzee deep for Bruno. But it is a process & I think the club is on the right track

[@kevintan2439]

Bruno=Rashy. Signed new deal form off! Thoughts?

[@cairoramesses953]

RICKY IS THE GOAT OF FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE

[@dailyfoot1618]

The armband is just a symbol, and it doesn't mean the holder can't be dropped or substituted if he ain't performing well, and it must be the case of Bruno. Too wasteful. I keep saying that we need the type of De Bruyne or Ødegaard to see how Garnacho, Diallo, and Rashford will perform. Bruno is too inconsistent. He does what he wants on the pitch in terms of creativity, and we will keep paying the price unless measures are taken. Zirkzee was Fantastic with his hold play and one pass.

[@owenhoward3148]

Am I the only person thinking or a Casemiro/ Ugarte pivot the Ahmed, Zirksee and Hojund up front with Zirksee dropped down on the left of Hojund. Goodness. Is ETH thick?

[@joenani9781]

Forum members agreeing with Ricky to avoid arguments 😂. Agreed, Bruno was terrible (has been), but his disgust for Bruno is ridiculous. Ud prolly say gibbs white is a better player. As much as we are definitely playing better, we need points, we need goals. Ten hag missed this one yesterday.

[@CodeKillers]

Don't see many fans smile like that when we've lost again shes happy to be on KZbin more than us waisring another chance

[@lalrinpuia_tlau]

One of the few times I've agreed with Ricky

[@Eddie_theEagle]

Rashford was only dropped for discipline so will be straight back into the team against Spurs. Bruno giving the ball away (34 times btw) is nothing new why on earth is no one inside the club telling him this! Watching United is like watching your team already at a disadvantage with players like Bruno and a manger like ETH. He’s more interested in getting players minutes than getting the win.

[@sidstewart7399]

Im 54..im starting to think I'll retire before Bruno and Rashford leave United.

[@chrisboucher-ry8bj]

Ricky just can’t be taken seriously when he talks about Bruno. He has a complete blind spot. That’s not to say that Bruno hasn’t been poor this season, he has. But overall he has been excellent for United.

[@TheMufc123]

I was baffled zirkzee came off too, im with ricky on that, other than the fact he cant finish zirkzee is quality at holding it up and creatng attacks

[@peezebeuponyou3774]

Our best midfield at the moment is Eriksen and any two of Casemiro, Ugarte or Mount. Mainoo and Fernandes should be 'rested'.

[@livewireredb.9953]

Ricky knows what he's talking about. I was saying Bruno wasn't a United player before we signed him. He had a 75% pass completion rate.

[@anilsekharc7475]

Frankly speaking Bruno doesnt pass, he just kicks the ball forward every time he gets it.

[@livewireredb.9953]

@DJBazzoMusic74 I meant before we signed him. His pass completion rate was like 75% at Sporting Lisbon.

[@jaikumarsukumaran6948]

Definitely yes Bruno can be sold now

[@6060manutd]

Ten Hag is starting to drain me. His decision making is absolutely dire. Maybe time to move him on, before we're in the bottom three. I thought he had a good football knowledge but sadly he's proved that theory wrong.

[@willdeal4367]

How is it his fault United keep missing chances?

[@fiachla]

No mate, he got a lot right today. We were incredible in the first half. Best football in a long time but we just couldn't score. If ETH hadn't made subs and we ended up drawing or losing, he'd be slaughtered for NOT making subs. Zirkzee should've stayed on though. He might have created some chances for Højlund

[@FelixUnderdog]

He WAS a good player, Beth. When Bruno plays international games he knows it's a vacation. Bruno has never been 'high class' let alone anything near 'world class'. I want him out of my club yesterday.

[@anilsekharc7475]

Only thing Bruno does is kick the ball forward every time he gets it. Some people think this is "creative'

[@FoxunitedFC29]

Do we hear and listen to ourselves everything we say is about “I hope” or “maybe this will happen” there is no certainty with this team and especially this manager no one can every predict what result or performance you’ll get from this team and you can’t build anything on that level of inconsistency of performance and personal, it’s clear ETH either doesn’t know his best team or even worse is he does but won’t pick it as fears he’ll lose players or the dressing room. It’s clear to me we need a fresh start, new chapter with everyone being out on a level playing field and we will see improvements I’m sure.

[@MrDingle92]

Game Wednesday js a good chance to mix it up abit and get minutes into legs. Hojlund Mount Zirkzee Antony Casemiro. Ugarte Amas Evan’s Maguire Dalot Bayindir

[@anthonyhurn1988]

Bruno wasn't great, but people saying his outside of the foot shot was pathetic are pathetic and have never played a game of football lol. In that moment he done the right thing he just didn't score

[@wer1ther]

Wrong sub? It seems like a chronic problem

[@KaraboAdoons]

Bruno has not played well for the past 18 months and Ricky's right unfortunately I'm sorry. If Bruno doesn't improve I want him gone. Ten hag is on the top edge too. I don't like saying this but it is what it is