Human Sexuality and Staying UMC

Can a person with a high view of scripture remain in the United Methodist Church? This is my journey through the issues of human sexuality and the church.

[@deanc2574]

So happy I left the UMC. Good luck..

[@engineersalltheway]

Brother, the amount of mental gymnastics is astounding. Again, all who repent are welcome! But here, you’ve turned sin into actual righteousness and by doing so you’ve enter by the wide gate. And I think you know this is true.

[@amykimball934]

Even the devil can quote scripture

[@markh8740]

Yeah ignore Leviticus...ignore Romans...ignore Corinthians, Jude...ignore church fathers like Justin Martyr, Clement, Tertullian, Arnobius, Eusebius, Basil, Augustine...ignore the Didache...ignore everything to accept something God calls an abomination... 2 Timothy 4:3 is being spoken right here....

[@MichaelJMetz]

Oh, one more thing. 1 Timothy 3: 2, "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, ..." In verse 8, Paul addresses deacons where in verse 11 he says, "Likewise, their wives must be reverent..." In verse 12, "Let deacons be the husbands of one wife." Now, I confess, I have not done the word study nor broke open the commentary...but it seems to me, if homosexuality is not the deviant behavior you are saying it's not Paul would have made provision for a homosexual taking a leadership role. Just sayin'.

[@Bigdave203]

I certainly found this video interesting. 5 years ago i was a progressive Methodist in New York . The more i dug into Scripture and historic Methodist doctrine the more i realized how wrong i was. .i fasted and prayed and spent some time studying and realized how wrong i was. I repented . I am pastoring an independent church, unfortunately i know of no Global Methodist Church in my area. The simple fact is Jesus defined " marriage between a man and a woman" and they were created " man and woman".

[@marilynloftin9225]

He is thinking of his retirement. Throwing the bible under the bus.

[@leehughart3160]

So his argument about Leviticus showed that the text was clear it was a sin. He shifted to say, well we don't kill them, so we should ignore it? His Romans interp uses only liberal definitions. And Romans 1 he reads into the passage the Isis cult, there is not contextual clues to this. Romans 1 is not just pagan idolatry. The next "God gave them over" paragraph is not limited to other religious cults. Such bad interpretive methods.

[@jeffdollar1646]

It's quite amazing that all of a sudden, after two thousand years of Christian teaching and study, that this generation is given the epiphany that what was once considered moral debauchery of the worst sort is now an acceptable lifestyle. Forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical.

[@NC-vz6ui]

Thats the exact same thing the slave owners in the South said when they quoted scriptures to uphold chattel slavery.

[@stevesafety6743]

@@NC-vz6ui not quite the same

[@jeffdollar1646]

@@NC-vz6ui anyone pushing a racial narrative has no basis in Scripture, this issue is quite different. This is the old Progressive "deflection" tactic.

[@NC-vz6ui]

You found us out Jeff. We progressives are deflecting and just want to sin by pointing out inconsistency in scriptural interpretation by fundamentalists and the notion the church has never been wrong in their interpretations the past 2000 years. Total BS, demonizing, and fear-mongering. Tell me why Jeff Martin Luther translated Leviticus as male shall not lie with young boys during the reformation in 1534?

[@jeffdollar1646]

@@NC-vz6ui Regarding Luther's translation =- perhaps it was because of his familiarity with the behavior of the monks and priests? Regardless, here is what Luther said about the sin of Sodom: "“the heinous conduct of the people of Sodom as extraordinary, inasmuch as they departed from the natural passion and longing of the male for the female, which is implanted into nature by God, and desired what is altogether contrary to nature. Whence comes this perversity? Undoubtedly from Satan, who after people have once turned away from the fear of God, so powerfully suppresses nature that he blots out the natural desire and stirs up a desire that is contrary to nature.”

[@robertgentzler2087]

How is the act of homosexual sex God glorifying????? Just explain that.

[@charleswallace8900]

Pastor, Your struggle to explain to single sex relationship in the church should tell you it is time for you to join the GMC. Is homosexuality God's intention from the beginning? It is painful to watch an otherwise good pastor straining unsuccessfully to justify what God frowns upon. Yes, we are all sinners but trying to justify same sex relationship through splitting hairs on words in the Bible is unfortunate. Please pastor just join the GMC. You appear to be a very good pastor but in the wrong camp.

[@kathleencaso3796]

Thank you for that. That's the Way I felt when a pastor from the district came to visit my church. He performed word gymnastics. That's what's going on here. I don't know any people who hate or disrespect gay people. I have gay persons in my extended femily So do you think I should hate them and just respect them? That's what some of the folks are saying in this Blog you're so wrong. Christians don't hate. I am not in a position neither is anyone else to judge other people's behavior. That job is left up to God. But to say or command that we have Have gay marriages And gay pastors is unacceptable. Any person can be married by a justice of the peace in a civil ceremony and it's legal. But I believe they don't want to do that they want to flaunt it in Our faces. People I know that's the thing that they object to not homosexuality, But as homosexuality is more and more Pushed by the radical left, so will be, As the news has proven, More people being sold into slavery as sex slaves, More sexual child abuse, And the acceptance, Of transgender children. I don't know call me crazy but the devil is really at work.

[@tjjones-xj7kq]

@@kathleencaso3796 great point about getting married outside the church! Your right they do make it sound like it's either married in the church or not at all.

[@jeffpitts360]

When he asks why aren't gays executed today as prescribed under the old covenant, he lost me. That's a disingenuous argument. It's day one apologetics that we are under the new covenant given to us by Jesus. Sheesh.

[@robertpostal5997]

I respect your opinion but what about Genesis 2:24 "That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh." It's about God's intention for marriage to be between a biological man and woman. There is no caveat here stating that it could be a man joined to a man or woman to woman ----"as long as their in a committed, loving relationship." I personally don't need to even go into the scriptures you've mentioned. It just seems you're trying too hard to make it acceptable in the eyes of God. Again- that's just my belief and we are to LOVE all people-- but what we believe to be true cannot be sacrificed in order to "seem" more loving. -Godspeed

[@eenlow4655]

I also serve as a UMC Pastor and am very much a traditionalist, the church I serve understands and supports my beliefes. We still support the Book of Discipline as written, that said we welcome all into the church but we DONOT condone homosexuality!

[@jeffblalock3010]

Thank you!!!

[@tjjones-xj7kq]

That's what I find difficult about my much more conservative Christian religion. I have talked to one who said they were never assaulted as a child and had a good upbringing but just are repulsed by the opposite sex. Like full on panic attack when they try to have sex with the person they like of opposite sex. However with the same sex it's totally comfortable. I couldn't imagine being gay and trying to stay celibate for 65+ years if I only found the same attractive. With that said I am fully prolife and don't agree with Trans having any teaching/preaching part of a church. Seems like Christian churches are either far left or far right. I can't find a more conservative church that allows women to help out in higher positions and allow LG people to live together without having to be wishy-washy on abortion or trans issues or getting your pets a blessing. It's all "Mostly all or nothing."

[@masterboni3589]

I wonder how Satan is using Umc in this dirty mission. Clergymen are offering them self just like this. If the scripture is not making sense in all this what do you ever preach if you do?

[@LauriSims]

For anyone listening who is truly seeking to live an upright, godly life and struggles with sexual sin, go read testimonies of Becket Cook (A Change of Affection), Rosaria Butterfield (Secret Thoughts of an Unlikely Convert), or Jackie Hill Perry (Gay Girl, Good God). Read your Bible and seek Jesus above all. It's a narrow road, few find it.

[@LuLu-gc3qn]

Yes! I just recommended Becket in my comment to Jeff Dollar. Woe to the pastors and teachers, who are abandoning the teaching in Scripture to be a friend to the world and popular culture.

[@ht5869]

Dear Pastor, as Christians we are indeed called to love all human beings, including those who have chosen to live a homosexual lifestyle. But, another thing is to accept their homosexual lifestyle, which is clearly a practice contrary to the nature that God established for human beings. In the Garden of Eden, God made them male and female, and commanded the man to join his wife and become one flesh. He did not provide man with a same-sex alternative. Even if the Bible does not forbid homosexual behavior, it's God's original design what is important in this matter. For our Creator is not a God of confusion but of order.

[@Mike-qt7jp]

It absolutely does condemn homosexual behavior. Romans 1:27 says, "In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed SHAMEFUL acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error." 1st Timothy 1:10 says, "... sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality...and liars and perjurers-and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine." 1st Corinthians 6:9-11 says, "Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

[@cliffordishii3738]

Conservative Methodists are encouraged to take the next step and become Biblical Christians if you believe in the inerrancy of scripture.

[@NC-vz6ui]

Yes. Become educated and really follow Jesus' teaching.

[@johndoe-ln4oi]

That's what they're doing.

[@johndoe-ln4oi]

@@NC-vz6ui If "progressives" did that, there would be no need to disaffiliate.

[@clintpargmann4953]

Takes less than 3 minutes to declare himself a heretic. Worthless.

[@bobclift101]

Unfortunately, I believe some use Bible passages to justify their own biases. I believe in the preeminence of the New Covenant. Love God with all your heart and soul, and love others as yourselves. “Traditionalists” who leave the UMC out of conscience need to do what they’re called to do. That doesn’t mean they are free to assume the Lord’s role in judging others.

[@teresabostick3276]

Jesus tells us in His word about fornication and most Christians do their best to not sin but what about the homosexual ? Is it ok for them to have sex ? What is the difference ? I know of many christian couples that obeyed God and waited until they were married before they had sex .Just wondering . Thanks

[@charlesbarwick2629]

What other Leviticus 18 prohibitions are subject to review?

[@ralphdailey9503]

It takes quite a stretch of the imagination to think that Paul's letter to the Romans is somehow referring to a cult in Egypt.

[@DMUCification]

Wolf in sheep’s clothing.

[@bingo7799]

Simple explanations are usually the best. If Paul was talking about Isis cult practices he would have said it. It's amazing how people can rationalize nearly anything if they need to. Nothing in the Bible affirms homosexuality directly but you have to weave quite a story to say it doesn't condemn it. So if God is firmly for same sex relationships then why is it not affirmed clearly?

[@bingo7799]

@@jotunman627 Better. You can use God's word. I believe God calls it an abomination. That's pretty clear. That's not me saying it. It's our creator.

[@bingo7799]

@@jotunman627 Agreed. We do our best to get it right and God gives us his Spirit to help. Even human logic can be flawed though so we have to be careful depending on that alone.

[@wadelindstrom360]

Why hasn't the Bible firmly affirmed Volkswagons?

[@bingo7799]

@@wadelindstrom360 Huh? Homosexuality existed back to the days of the Bible and it largely talks about relationships, not so much about mechanical things. But Farfegnugen to you.

[@LuLu-gc3qn]

Yes, we would rather reinterpret Scripture to allow us to embrace our sin than to repent and to abandon the sin.

[@SalterRacingEngines]

It's time people stop being Methodist and start being Christians anytime you put man's. Thinking ahead of God's word. You are already going in the wrong direction. John, Wesley would not even preach on the end times because he's self-admittedly did not understand it. Instead, he chose to walk around with his head in the sand when the fact of the matter is Jesus could return it any moment and we need to live our lives as if that is about to happen but to ignore that fact is a disservice and not preaching the whole gospel nor is it rightly dividing the word nor is it preaching in season and out of season. I just don't understand what's wrong with people today. Why in the world do you people put men's thoughts and some paragraph that some doctor from some seminary school wrote ahead of God's word? Do you not understand that the word is God? The word was God. Basically God is the word and all we've done is changed Bible versions until we finally find one that fits our lifestyle. Do you not understand about that as well? That in order to do a new version of the Bible you have to change it by 60%?; is what are you changing? What in the world can you possibly change from a direct translated holy Bible and still have it say the same thing? Answer you don't have the problems. I believe in churches today because they read Bibles that are out of hell that men and women right through the influence of Satan. We even have Bibles today that say Mary was a young girl instead of a virgin Bibles that don't proclaim that jesus was the only begotten son because Jesus was of the very substance of God, the father. He was not just a son of God. He was the only begotten son and there is a big difference. The fact of the matter is we as Americans and as Christians need to get back to God's word we need to rightly divide it. We need to preach it in season and out of season because I promise you. The Bible tells us that he will hold you as specially accountable if you are a teacher or a preacher. This has given me so much righteous anger. I can't even sleep at night anymore. That's right. I said righteous anger because we should be angry about this. We should be hurt and disappointed and also determined because God tells us that they hated him. So because of that, they're going to hate us too. I know this is a bunch of run-on sentences but I'm talking to text here because I'm on fire right now. My goodness. You know what I really think. I think a lot of people just need to get saved

[@thomascurry4762]

A true scholar and someone who takes seriously their commitment to understand what God asks of us. I pray for you and your ministry! Thank you!

[@Mike-qt7jp]

Sorry, but you need to repent. You can't be a gay Christian any more than you can be a Christian adulterer, or Christian bank robber, or Christian kidnapper or on and on. Here is what the Bible says about homosexuality. Leviticus 18:22 says, "Do not have sex with a man as with a woman; that is DETESTABLE. Romans 1:27 says, "In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed SHAMEFUL acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error." 1st Timothy 1:10 says, "... sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality...and liars and perjurers-and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine." 1st Corinthians 6:9-11 says, "Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." This is where a Christian who really believes the Bible to be God's word, must warn the homosexual what God actually says about homosexuality. If you love the homosexual, how could you possibly not warn him/her about what they will face on Judgment Day if they don't turn to Jesus Christ and repent (walk away from sin.) That goes for adultery, lying, stealing, drugs, drunkenness, and every other sin God warns us about. Also, every single verse about marriage is ALWAYS between a man and his WIFE or a woman and her HUSBAND. NEVER a man and his husband or a woman and her wife.

[@elainerigsby8519]

I will pray for you

[@austinlovitt8298]

Imagine thinking that this one issue is the main problem with the UMC….

[@edodt4220]

This is the same old game that has been played by critical academics for a couple hundred years: historical-critical interpretive method. The idea is, you can circumvent the meaning of the text by referencing history BEHIND the text. This approach creates a "canon behind the canon" or, more accurately, "history as authority over canon." The basic idea here is that historical-critical methods, rather than the text itself. Exegesis and literary analysis are essentially ignored in this approach, or so maligned that their purpose is rendered useless. A simpler way of saying this is that DOUBT rather than BELIEF is the proper disposition toward the text. If you read something you don't like, then go dig up some history that will permit you to ignore what is written. So at the end of the day, interpretive method isn't even the foundation of the issue; it's really a matter of AUTHORITY, with downstream implications for sufficiency, necessity, and clarity of Scripture. This approach does have a facade of concern for exegesis: there is always a complementary discussion of original languages and translation philosophies involved. But these are not really exegetical discussions at all: they are a continuation of historical-critical methods. "The word is translated "x" but it should have/could have been translated as "y"" Again, the critical method is promoted here, not the actual text. Textual criticism in this context always reverts BACK to the method. There is no REAL exegesis taking place at all. The same can be said for literary arguments, which are far less frequently presented, but follow the same critical approach. I am not saying there is no use for historical criticism. But any tool can be abused. Any tool that is elevated above the text is satanic. The problem comes in when ANY method is given authority over the text, so that what God said is said to NOT have been said. Scripture interprets scripture. There is NO METHODOLOGICAL APPROACH that supplants the authority of Scripture. You aren't even dealing with method at that point, but rather, engaging in combat with Satan. Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! (Isaiah 5:20)

[@bobbystooksbury8901]

I hate be in your place on judgement day wen you stand in front of God. It my prayers you get Right with God before you die there no tears in Hell fire because that means water.

[@Armando1228]

Nope Nope

[@rodfry3977]

so it's ok with you that the bishops break their covenant to uphold the book of discipline? smh

[@48Ballen]

A perfect example of somebody refusing to obey the word of God.....

[@dpatterson5293]

Prayers

[@annpippin6388]

The Traditional.UMC according to.the Discipline is being more protected from destructive forces not compatible with Christian Teachings by those churches staying than those leaving the church to these forces.

[@tomgunn8004]

No wonder you're having these problems. The UMC has always been a lukewarm church.

[@bevc]

That’s what I think too, we are beige.

[@MichaelJMetz]

First, I commend you for the study that went into what you have shared (I've done it - very time consuming). Second, in the beginning, can you tell me why God put Adam to sleep (Gen 2:21) and from his rib made woman (Gen 2:22)? Why not another man? I just found myself thinking (enlightened?) this shift in trying to accept homosexuality may be coming out of a sense of guilt of how the Church/church has dealt with homosexuality in the past. I do hope this position is not some form of reparation. We, as a body, have been hateful and condemnatory towards those who practice homosexuality, waging our finger, telling them they are going to hell. Homosexuality, lying, stealing, assault, abusing children and others, these are all sins. We need to learn how to address sinful behavior that leads to repentance. Oh, my initial point, God made a man and a woman to reproduce (at least in part). Man in relationship with man can't do that; same with women in relationship with women.

[@48Ballen]

You missed a huge point: God says that sex is allowed between a married man and woman. NOBODY ELSE!!! This attempt by the UMC to pretend that homosexual acts are OK with God is just completely wrong. It is a sin just like the rest of your list which must include infidelity of married men and women. The reason the UMC is dying is because it has nothing but sand to stand on without the Bible.

[@bajahil1]

In all the videos I have watched concerning the issues in the UMC, this is the first, and, so far, only one that has mentioned the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, and the analysis of the originating languages. Well done, thou good and faithful servant.

[@jeffvol1958]

Yes Blain I agree, and even used it in our Methodist study that we are doing and opened many eyes. I may use it in some Discernment meetings that I will hold later this month.

[@rodfry3977]

The Wesleyan quadrilateral is not from Wesley. It came about in the early 1900's. So you are also ok that our bishops refuse to hold up the book of discipline of which they took a covenant to uphold. I cant wait to disaffiliate but have to wait because the UMC is holding us hostage

[@johndoe-ln4oi]

He did a lot of twisting and obfuscating. I hope he didn't hurt himself.

[@joblack1838]

Tell me you're not a Christian without telling me you're not a Christian. In other words, anyone who says homosexuality isn't a sin isn't a Christian. #Facts #DealWithIt

[@flapjackluvr]

I say Homosexuality isn't a Sin, and I am a Christian.

[@joblack1838]

@@flapjackluvr No, you're not.

[@GaryJoyner-vr8ug]

@@flapjackluvr You can not just “say” something is not a sin, and claim to be a Christian. It is clearly laid out in scripture. It is a sin, no worse than any other, because all sin is the same, but a sin nonetheless. If you commit this sin, like any other, and do no repent, you will spend eternity outside of Heaven. Sin, God is against, Bible 101. God loves everyone, but has rules.

[@SimeonDenton-jd1uc]

One of the most ludicrous abuses of the texts that I’ve ever seen… WOW JUST WOW

[@merkur18]

My concern about this video is the amount of research within what timeframe. A deep dive into theology with years of study and evaluation does not seem to be apparent in this video. It comes across as google searches, to which I consider dangerous.

[@scottcavin1115]

Wade, please hear this response with an open ear and heart. After spending countless hours delving deeply into this issue through an exegesis of scripture, then your interpretive lens is out of focus. A solid hermeneutical study of "...all scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness...", would reveal the grievous errors in your arguments. Throughout the entire bible, God explains to us the separation caused by sin. Denying the scriptures to prove a point of long-term relationships being His plan, is extremely dangerous. Love is not love as some seek to create a new meaning. Scripture clearly sets homosexuality apart as a sin. It is clear. You avoid the scripture references where it is clearly denounced. Just because one is in a long-term relationship whether that is legally binding in man's eyes or not, does not justify the sin. I implore you to reconsider your stance, not on my commentary of your video, but in God's eyes. Brother, we may disagree on almost every point you made, but I am deeply concerned for your eternity. As a former United Methodist by birth(son of a UMC minister), baptism(infant), confirmation, and choice, I understand your desire to stay with the UMC. It was only when Holy Spirit opened the eyes of my heart, that I fully understood the distance and separation between Our Father and me. Wade, for the sake of your eternity, turn back to God, turn from the lies of the culture and the enemy. He too(the enemy), denied God's sovereignty and His rightful stance on sin. Do not be deceived Wade, your acceptance of the cultural phenomena that are sweeping the Western world, will lead you to hell. It is not me hurling insults at you or condemning you with vitriol language. It is you ignoring the very precepts you say you believe. I will give you one scripture message in context, coming straight from Jesus' mouth, to consider. John in his gospel account clearly quotes Jesus and His intent when it comes to sin. I pray you will see that in Chapter 3 your willingness to accept sin and disregard God's word will lead you to destruction and eternal separation from God. "16 For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. 18 There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants." NLT I sincerely pray you will hear these words as an encouragement to flee the guiles of the enemy and turn back to God. This is real Love, I pray you hear with your heart. Staying in or leaving the UMC is not your issue, nor it is the issue with those whom you are trying to persuade or dissuade. Sin and the denying of God's true word is your issue as well as mine. When we are "rightly dividing the word of truth" we see how our biases cloud or get in the way of His true intent for our lives. We do not want to finish up at the end of our arguments sounding like or looking like those at the conclusion of the book of Joshua, by doing "what was right in their own eyes".

[@lydiadayton504]

Thank you for these words, a most beautiful and loving response.

[@jdpalm1981]

14:40 - To say that Paul is writing the Roman Christians to not fall into the Isis cult is not reasonable. He's not warning about anything other than God's wrath will befall the unrighteous and then gives a generic history of generic unrighteous people. Then he actually warns that THEY should not judge the unrighteous simply because they don't do that particular sin. Look, the best argument that can be given for Christians to be able to engage in homosexual relationships is this: Acts 15 (Jerusalem Council), 1st Corinthians 10:23 and Galatians 3:24 (not devoid of 5:16, of course). You have to overcome a huge hurdle with Galatians 5:19-21: fornication/sexual immorality. Nonetheless, if you take Acts 15 , 1st Corinthians 10:23 & Galatians 3:24, you'll see that obeying the Mosaic Law does not bring Salvation. However, why does the Christian not murder? Galatians 5:16. Walking in the Spirit (the Author of the the Law) is here to guide us individually. Christians who read the Bible, pray and hang out with other Christians that do the same will be convicted of sin (John 16:8 & Matthew 18:20). This has huge implications, but as long as Christians don't pre-screen for churches that will accept their specific issue, they need to believe and trust that the Holy Spirit is guiding them through their local church as to what they should/shouldn't be doing (profitable). The Rich Young Ruler kind of situation would be told to give up his wealth in that kind of church. That doesn't make people who had the same wealth as him always sinning, but the Holy Spirit will guide individuals in their specific walk. So, in my understanding, you'd have to have a church that would see a couple (homosexual or not) that was not married yet living together as a romantic partnership and see that specific couple as being lead by the Spirit. The reason the couple couldn't be married is because in no way can a church ordain a homosexual marriage. Jesus is pretty clear that marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman in Matthew 19:4-6. Therefore, if a church can see a couple living together yet not married as being lead by the Spirit, it's possible for that couple to be gay. However, it's rather unlikely due to Galatians 5:19-21. So, if you trust the Holy Spirit is in that local church and will convict people of sins like the Rich Young Ruler, He will guide those people.

[@keithwilson6060]

It’s a huge red flag pointing to apostasy when you say that people “use” scriptures to settle on a position. That is highly disingenuous.

[@natestewiu]

2 Timothy 3:1-7 KJV This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. [2] For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [3] Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, [4] Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; [5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. [6] For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, [7] Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

[@chriscravens8318]

Rationalization at its finest

[@kevinmcdonald6446]

Pretty good hermeneutical gymnastics.

[@BREEDSTYLE]

This is wild to me lol please don't follow after wolves in sheep's clothing. God outlines the covenant of marriage between one man and one woman in the very first book of the bible which shows it's importance to the overall narrative. The devil is the master deceiver.

[@johndoe-ln4oi]

Jesus Christ defined marriage in Matthew 19. He was specific that the Covenant of Marriage is one man and one woman, and God makes no provision for sex outside of marriage. We live in a world that has put such a high value on sex that it tells us sexuality is who we are; that is a lie. As Christians, we are to try to look at the world with God's eyes, not the world's. As a pastor, you are leading people down a false path, and I believe that is an extraordinarily egregious sin. Matthew 18:6

[@user-ug9xw5jm1r]

The one thing about the Bible is God made it simple. If he made it difficult to understand and interpret, there would not be a chance at spiritual survival. As a matter of fact, I don't think we would have even been created. God is perfect. If you question that, you do not believe. With out Faith and belief, there is no chance for humanity. You believe everything from Genesis to Revelation to be true. You do not add to, nor take away from the Word. This talk of sexuality can be put to rest with the book of Genesis. In the beginning God created man, then woman. He didn't create more then one gender. Why ? because he had purpose. To populate the planet. Remember the verse that it was not right for man to be alone, so he created, so he created woman. The woman has different characteristics, and not just physical. With the first chapter of Genesis, you now know what God's purpose was and is. You go back to the days of Sodom and Gomorrah. What do you think the men were after when they tried to con Lot into turning the men, A.K.A Angels, over to them ? They did not specify woman or "Whatever you've got inside." There is a take that Jesus made no mention of homosexuality in the New Testament. He did though. “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us” (John 17:20-21). Christ is apart of the Godhead. Do you remember what your Earthly Father said to you as a child, "If your Mother ask you to do, it's the same as If I told you to do it. The New Testament was smaller in size then the Old Testament. One of the reasons is that Jesus would preach by refereing to what his Father said or created in the Old Testament. Those that followed Christ also refered back to the Old Testament. there was no need to add more to the Bible as the Old Testament pretty much said it all. As for Homosexuals, the Church (all) except all sinners. We pray that our witness is enough that we can convert others. Murdereers, robbers, rapists, drunks, gamblers and homosexuals. the sinners' list goes on. Pastor Powell, you also know that sexuality was not the only reason for the split. Some think that Christ was just a good person spreading God's Word. He was, except he was God's Son. The Progressive have other thought on who Christ really was. Traditionals believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus. Progressive believe Jesus was not bodily raised from the dead, and that the disciples and other witnesses had some sort of spiritual experience in which they sensed the presence of Jesus, which became known as the Resurrection. You do a disservice when you do not bring up the other reasons. I hope that you are not concerned about losing your position or retirment. There are some in my area who are and are keeping quite. Please do not keep praching this manner. "Those who really love me are the ones who not only know my commands but also obey them (John 14)." Keep the Faith in what you know to be the real truth.The best advice is Pray to God for direction. The defination of Faith, is complete trust or confidence in someone or something. That someone is God. Keep the Faith.

[@KevinHale-vq2xr]

Of course you will

[@darrellclements4446]

Thank you pastor for a clear and open minded explanation for your views on the subject. Lately I have watched many videos on this subject. Most are posted by those with an opposing view to yours and mine. What I have noticed mostly is that those promoting leaving the denomination and those commenting on them are spewing vitriol and practicing judgementalism. Many do it with tones resembling kindness and understanding but when you dissect what they say and ignore the way they say it the clear that they are silver tongued and convincing as was the serpent when dealing with Eve. This division of the denomination is easily viewed as two camps, one promoting loving acceptance of others regardless of their sexuality and the other demonstrating a lack of compassion for those who are unlike themselves. If there is an error being made I choose to come down on the side of church which is truly loving, understanding, and accepting of others rather than risk affiliating with those who would deny a place at the table to anyone deemed unacceptable and would bar the door to any of God’s children for any reason whatsoever. I also notice that those leaving the denomination are united in their condemnation of the rest of us and do not hesitate to judge verbally while the ones choosing to remain are accepting even of those who are choosing to leave and are wishing them well as they do so. Statements of goodwill from those leaving are so obviously tinged with sarcasm that I rejoice at being one associated with the faithful who are genuinely wishing their departing brothers and sisters a bon voyage. This statement will undoubtedly be attacked and belittled by the ones who are betraying their denomination. I will not bother to respond to any of them.

[@flapjackluvr]

Well said!

[@syntheticsandwich190]

Hear hear

[@roscoe268]

30 year lesbians are choosing their lifestyle over doing God's will for their lives. Their choice, we don't have to contort ourselves to confirm their disobedience.

[@WalkingRoscoe]

2 Thessalonians 2: 10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not accept the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

[@Dave-if5qj]

You can twist perception Reality won't chance

[@BrandonStarling-ib9dm]

If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godl iness is a means to financial gain" 1 Tim. 6:3-5

[@samdawson6469]

You've really taken a long convoluted path through a variety of translations of the Bible to get your weak explanation on this matter. You stay if you want. I along with 100% of our congregation, have left.

[@LuLu-gc3qn]

I would reread and reconsider, if I were you, Wade Powell. As a shepherd/teacher of God's flock, you will be held to higher standard. And, you do lead people astray, you yourself will mourn, when you stand before God to give an account. "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Also, "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." People say that Jesus himself never addressed homosexuality. Why would he have to? Jesus is the author of the law--the ceremonial and civil laws that governed Israel, as well as the moral law, which still applies to us. If you are contributing to a book about sugar-free recipes, all of the recipes are sugar free. There is no need to talk about sugar. He did talk about marriage--between a man and a woman. He created a man and a woman, and that relationship reminds us of Christ and his bride, the church. The New Testament states that neither liars, nor fornicators, nor homosexuals will enter the kingdom of heaven... BUT such were some of us; however we have been washed clean. He is telling us that they are sins and that we can repent and forsake those sins. Living in a "committed homosexual relationship" is continuing to live in unrepentant sin.

[@paulcampbellspiritualheale1816]

Thank you

[@Speachism]

You have clearly modified your beliefs to match your perceived experiences.

[@michaelsumstine1579]

Thank you pastor.

[@JR-ez3zd]

He is reading from a perverted Bible! And not from The Word Of G_D wich is The King James Version!

[@kendesmarais9018]

As what happens so often, you have come to know some homosexuals and have developed a friendship with them. Now you need to put scripture through the meat grinder to justify them. They are wolves in sheep’s clothing using your emotions to tear you from God. God is clear in His word and you know it.

[@bonniemckay4363]

Thank you, Wade! Your time spent studying scriptures on this topic should clear up any questions people might have. Excellent job!!

[@Is..4110]

Sir, you have obviously compromied God's Word in order to be accepted by man.This makes you an apostate and God WILL deal with you..

[@Shreck2468]

What? What?

[@CAmundsen1]

Nope

[@lauragodfrey2381]

Thank you for your teaching. I think anyone who has struggled to learn another language can understand that translations are always problematic without context. Not many of us English speakers understand the subtle meanings of 400-year-old English meant for common people without our Shakespeare crib notes.. That's why I appreciate the Wesleyan approach to add reason and Christian experience to more fully understand the reading of scripture.

[@laurencekelly486]

One day ,you will stand before God and give an account and because you are a pastor you will be judged more harshly. I think deep down you know it’s sin but you want to be the hip pastor. In the verses you are quoting it says about many sins are these sins now acceptable

[@johnhammons679]

This man should be marked and avoided. Romans 16 17-18

[@cbincbnc]

I needed this. Thank you. The church I grew up in left the UMC. I find myself churchless, but nit godless. Bless you and thank you for this video

[@syntheticsandwich190]

I hope you find a loving community to call your home

[@ChristyCallahan]

Why are people so focused on homosexuality, but tolerate and even celebrate swindlers, liars, adulterers, gossips, and the greedy?

[@Mike-qt7jp]

Who tolerates them? Sin is sin. But what amazes me is people want to say, "I'm a Gay Christian." You don't hear the adulterer bragging, "Hey, I'm a Christian adulterer." Or the liar saying, "I'm a Christian liar." Or the murderer saying, "I'm a Christian murderer."

[@michellelowry5008]

Thank you so much for this clarity of scripture. I make presentations on the UMC and the LGBTQ community, a lifelong United Methodist and I’m a transgender female. It appears that traditional Methodists have come to their conclusions based on the society they were raised, and not scripture. Do you have any writings on the subject of your video? Yours in Christ Michelle She Her Hers

[@thomascurry4762]

I had to add another comment, because this is the most RATIONAL discussion of the scriptures related to modern day homosexuality...and it enrages those who hate gays. I love this guy!!!!

[@geebee864]

God does not judge on a curve! Be carful 😎 brother u are leaning toward justifying the new norm accepting Gay marriage gay life style ! You can not chose Hell one day and Heaven the next !

[@stevebranch584]

Excellent explanation....and I certainly agree as well.

[@jeffvol1958]

Great teaching. Most individuals I meet with think just the word homosexual means promiscuity. They cannot envision a vowed relationship with two of the same sex as they do in their heterosexual world. I had explained in many meetings as far as my infant mind could take them but fell short. Thank you for some in-depth study and answers. They will bring clarity to those who open their ears and minds.

[@fredphilippi8388]

Many thanks for this lucid explanation of Scripture and tradition. I hope this "take" on what the Scriptures say about homosexuality can become more widely understood. It is so unfortunate that the UMC is splitting up into what are essentially pro-gay and anti-gay contingents. But, to be honest, all major denominations seem to be confronting this same issue in the same way. Anglicans are splitting up into pro- and anti- contingents just like the Methodists. Catholics too are dividing into what they call pre-Vatican II (Latin Mass, anti-gay) and post-Vatican II (English liturgy and pro-gay) contingents. Jews have the same problem of divisions. When a problem is this common to everyone, that tells me it is a universally misunderstood issue.

[@48Ballen]

There is no anti-gay contingent, this is completely misleading. Gays and others obeying the laws contained in the Bible are welcome by every Christian. Sinners of all persuasions are also welcome as they seek to repent from sin. It is the homosexual acts, forbidden by God, that are the problem and to pretend that the Bible doesn't forbid them is why the UMC will collapse. I have heard pastors in the UMC actually disavow most of the Bible and this is just sinful.

[@fredphilippi8388]

@@48Ballen Here is the thing: people may be homosexual by orientation, for no apparent reason, but they may not act in accordance with the truth of who they are. That is your belief. They must PRETEND to be hetero in order to be accepted not only by man but by God. In my opinion, what you are saying is to just embrace delusion and you will be saved. That is not truth by my definition.

[@flapjackluvr]

@Beron Allen rewatch this video. I think you missed something.

[@johndoe-ln4oi]

@@48Ballen Well-said.

[@johndoe-ln4oi]

It really wasn't lucid. He did a lot of twisting and engaged in leaps of logic. Jesus puts all of this to an end in Matthew 19, and he avoided that scripture altogether. And this isn't pro-gay and anti-gay; this is about being faithful to Christ and resisting the temptation to put the love of sin above the love of God.

[@lesrawson95]

Good bye UMC

[@paulbigaruka9442]

This man is sick

[@flapjackluvr]

Why are the anti-gay commenters so mean? If this is what they consider loving all people, well, that is why gays will not go to church. This is spot on, Pastor. I, too, did a 180 on this issue after studying the information about cultures and translation of Hebrew and Greek. I believe that we all will answer to Jesus for not loving people enough. Thank you for this video.

[@NC-vz6ui]

Well done! I'm so tired of people saying show us a positive case from scripture. Same sex love is present in scripture, if you have the eyes to see it. We are not going to see a homosexual marriage in scripture, because the culture was patriarchal and did not have the understanding of orientation. Marriage packs were based on survival. I don't know why anyone would think that a group of people who have been historically oppressed would be given exposure, much less a platform, in the Bible in an explicit way. Besides that Christians affirm all sorts of things that the scriptures provide no positive case for.

[@48Ballen]

the reason the UMC is dying is because of rationalizations like this. If you don't have a Biblical foundation, people can tell you are making it up. The churches that are growing are those teaching the Bible. It is no wonder that this is the way it works. God gave us the book, and you can follow it or fabricate your own ideas. If you do the latter, you are doomed.

[@NC-vz6ui]

@@48Ballen The UMC is not dying. It is drawing a line against religious pharisees!

[@buddyroeginocchio9105]

So culture trumps Scripture? Why then bother with scripture or anything related to it, just go and worship culture. Never mind, it appears you already are doing so.

[@NC-vz6ui]

@@buddyroeginocchio9105 I would ask the question, who is really worshiping culture? It appears conservatives are quite content to worship the culture of the Bible. This why the Bible has been used a weapon to justify all sorts of injustices. Ignoring the words of Jesus, but following ancient Judaism.

[@buddyroeginocchio9105]

Ancient Judaism? Is 1 Cor 5:1-5 Judaism? Is modern church culture reasonably reflected therein? Does UMC have a huge problem like that? Is that problem not of their own making? Is that huge problem everyone else's fault that you should employ reversal argument? Are you doing anything to fix this problem? I am using unusually harsh terms and I hate using them but are they unreasonable? /@@NC-vz6ui

[@gmswhackos2652]

Apostates. Doctrines of Demons