Uniting Against Bullying in TTRPGs

[@welovettrpgs]

PLEASE READ: I mentioned Bob Worldbuilder and Ginny Di in this video. I am aware that Ginny is a grown woman able to defend herself. I'm also aware she's older than she appears. I'm not suggesting otherwise. I've looked younger than my age most of my life. However, she does appeal to the younger generation of gamers and her advice is perfectly suited for that audience. This isn't an endorsement or a critique of her ideas, but acknowledgement that she generally provides positive supportive information for her target audience. I did not further discuss her as this video isn't an expose about her or her life. Bob is one of the best among the younger generation of gamers and I rarely find disagreement with him. I think other Grognards should check him out. I'm just leaving the comment to tidy up any possible questions you might have had from the video. Thanks for watching!

[@28mmRPG]

I think it was cool to see Ginny realizing "Roleplay" and "proactive player characters" changes the game entirely... it takes some people a long time to finally understand that it's just not the rules but the way in mannerisms that you participate in the game that make the game more engaging

[@sheldorleconcher8870]

I'm an old gamer (retiring tomorrow!) and I think the folks like Ginny are the future of the game. Love her and your outlook on D&D!

[@welovettrpgs]

@@sheldorleconcher8870 Thanks!

[@takanobaierun]

I'm still not over Bob cutting his hair short... and probably never will.

[@azifukare]

I am a grognard and I like both of them too. I think they are the right kind of people for a GOOD game. Antonio Dimico (Pointy Hat) too. There is certainly a place for kindness and inclusivity in D&D that a LOT of people overlook. Many people may not agree, but I like a kinder, gentler approach to the hobby like they all display, especially for new players. Having said that, I am still Old School and don't mind maiming their characters as a DM... but in a FUN way 😀

[@kingmobisinvisible]

Goth Ron Swanson calmly telling bullies to knock it off is exactly what the DND community needs. This is my new favorite ttrpg channel!

[@welovettrpgs]

haha thanks!

[@takanobaierun]

Goth Ron Swanson is canon now!

[@WTFoolproof]

"I have a scroll right here. It says I can do whatever I want."

[@rynowatcher]

This is dad punching you and saying, "don't hit people." It only feeds the problem and cements bullying is acceptable if you are x person. Indistructaboy went after Grim Jim because of perceived slights to Genni Di (the videos are still up on their channels) that ended in Indistructaboy apologizing for over reacting for Genni Di playing the sexist card when Grim Jim was arguing about game mechanics/procedures. Watch the events unfold; it is enlightening and applicable to the situation as Indistructaboy targeted Grim Jim not because he had the worst take or was meanest to JD, but because he had a big enough channel that his actions might actually hurt him financially but small enough that Indistructaboy would not be hurt by it if Grim Jim tried to mobilize his fans against him. This is all manufactured drama.

[@welovettrpgs]

@@rynowatcher You sure seem to know a lot about youtube internet drama, for somebody who isn't interested in youtube internet drama. I knew nothing about anything youre talking about and I really wish I hadn't. You're making the issues about specific people rather than the behavior. I'm addressing the behavior.

[@ryanb5127]

Can I express how refreshing it is to see someone talk about the bullying they experienced and conclud that it was bad and shouldn’t happen NOT that it’s some weird right of passage

[@welovettrpgs]

Thanks! And to make matters worse I was also a "Batcaver" so that just brought it down even worse. I could leave my D&D books at home but the hair and the clothing was a huge target.

[@stagehog81]

I can personally vouch for the accuracy of his statements about his DDO guild. I first met Aten through DDO. I considered myself a decent player when I first started playing with people from his guild and they helped me elevate my skills and ended up with me being accepted as a member of the guild. There were always more skilled players than I was in the guild, but I was never made to feel inferior to them and always had others willing to help me improve even more. I enjoyed my time playing with him in DDO and am happy to be a player in his D&D campaign.

[@welovettrpgs]

aww Thank you! I'm blessed to have your friendship!

[@arthurbrockway8949]

Britches 4 eva.

[@dorothymccomb2244]

I remember being the only woman at the gaming convention thirty-mumble years ago. Don't remember any bullying, though. Good thing, too, since my self-esteem was low enough at the time that I'd have fled screaming.

[@welovettrpgs]

I'm glad too! (And most of that bullying comes from guys safely in their basement/bomb shelter who wouldn't know how to interact with a woman face to face.)

[@spaceranger7683]

My problem with bullying in RPGs is how old timers are blamed for "excluding" people when in reality most people avoided the hobby like the plague. We welcomed anyone who was actually willing to be seen with us.

[@welovettrpgs]

From my experiences you are correct. We welcomed everyone. I'd like to hear some authentic stories from anyone who was specifically told they could not join a D&D group because they weren't a white male. So far I have not found one.

[@Anticitizen2501]

Exactly! We loved this hobby before it was cool! 😂

[@rogerb181]

I have had game groups of men and mixed groups of women and men. The only major difference I ever saw was female players love to seek out and network more with NPCs. They would tend to make twice as many contacts in an average game as guys did.

[@andrewlustfield6079]

@@welovettrpgs Back when I first started playing, I went to a middle school that was 90% black. We tried to get other kids our age to play, but there was a lot of peer pressure not to hang with the nerdy white kids with the demons on the game books. But at cons, there were all sorts of folks. Dallas Con, Dallas Fantasy Faire which was a gamming and comic book convention, and my first Gen Con was in 87. Were minorities and women underrepresented--sure. But they were always there and they were always welcome. The gaming groups I was in just wanted people to be serious about the game, whether it was D&D, Car Wars, or Battletech. Paranoia was never really serious, but we loved it too. And the same pressure was true in the army. Black folks experienced pressure from other black soldiers not to game with us. Now this was in the 90s and there were a lot more women gamers at that time. In part because Vampire was brand new, and it was a game that had cross gender appeal. But that opened the minds of many women to the possibility of playing D&D, too and that was a great thing. That was huge actually. After running Vampire for a while, my gaming groups for D&D were almost 50% women while I was on base. "D&D? I'm not so sure. Okay, I'll give it a try..." And they had a better time than they ever expected. That said, I've seen some pretty horrible behavior in the past, mostly from people who were immersed in computer gaming culture before coming to D&D. That's just my own experience, and I'm sure there are people who are old grognards who can be pretty terrible, but that's not the culture we tried to foster as I remember it. We were just looking for anyone to sit down and play games with us. As for edition wars, etc., sure I have my critiques of how the hobby has evolved--some of it is in very good ways. Some of it, not so much. But then I play gritty a home brew that's derived from a mix of older editions, so I haven't lost a damn thing. And neither have my players. As with any game, if you're having fun at your table, who am I to say you're doing it wrong?

[@marhawkman303]

@@welovettrpgs Only time I was told no was because they thought I my personality didn't fit their group.

[@lilywednesday]

Aten really decided that he was going to make a whole channel where every video he just comes out here dressed fresh as fuck and then drops a bunch of objective truths.

[@welovettrpgs]

:) Youre very sweet! Thanks for being here to put a smile on my face!

[@sonicexpert986]

I totally agree. We cannot tolerate intolerance. Nuanced and meaningful takes like this may not shoot to the top of the algorithm due to the lack of clickbait title/thumbnail, but I hope to see more of this! Thanks for this video.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thanks!

[@TheSoling27]

the statement, is in itself an oxymoron.. thinking back to the intial quote at the beginning of the video. We just don't have to participate in it by "hitting the delete button" but call out abuse..

[@welovettrpgs]

@@TheSoling27 Ill refer to: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

well, it seems we tolerated the real intolerant mobster. Gate keeping is not "bigotry/hate speech" but the immune system of every hobby/community. Look at those racist declaration of WotC high ups.

[@yourseatatthetable]

Having played in the hobby since the mid 70's I have seen all sorts of people; haters; lovers; indifferent sorts; trolls, fans; zealots, you name them and have had to deal with (and to my shame, on occasion, filled such roles), I have learned two basic things. One: There is no right or wrong way to play, as long as we are willing to be tolerant, to support the hobby in as positive a way as we can, and to welcome players, be they new; or veteran, young or old. That the hobby is for everyone. At the minimum, keep an open mind and heart. Two: That there will always be someone; something; some rule; some system; some style of play, that we don't care for, or agree with, or even are stone fast against. This is to be expected. After all, we are human beings, with all that entails. In this, nothing ever changes. Though I would dearly love to fill the player role, 95% of the time I find myself in the hot seat. Such is life, and something I've accepted decades ago as part of a price to play. I have come to understand that yes, there are 'that one yahoo' whose idea of play is drama and distraction; to belittle or challenge - everything. So, sometimes I have to choose to pass on that particular table. Just as I understand that no matter how I present; run; judge; conduct (yeah, railroad), it is not for everyone. that sometimes, players will get up or pass on the open seat at my table. It is, what it is... Personally, I don't like role playing in first person. It rubs me a bit wrong, but that's okay, and if someone wishes to play at my table in the 1st person, it doesn't bother me. I'm not the one playing. Just as I understand that I, personally, love detail and depth in my games. Probably why I love PBP games these days. I am not fond of nudging or cheating dice rolls for any reason, but am and have been, guilty of 'adjusting' the scenario or scene if it's clear the players are in over their heads or are having a bad stretch of luck. I love the lore of many systems, while am indifferent to many more. I embrace house rules, if it's your house, and respect that, just as I would ask you to respect mine. In the end, I would like to hope most dedicated gamers, regardless of your 'system' choice or personal preferences, would conduct themselves in a manner that understands why we're playing in the first place.

[@welovettrpgs]

Great feedback! Thanks!

[@yourseatatthetable]

@@welovettrpgs Great channel, I've hit the Subscribe button.

[@welovettrpgs]

@@yourseatatthetable Awesome!

[@thegraphitedragon1434]

I really appreciate the tone that you are trying to set in your community and the broader TTRPG space.

[@welovettrpgs]

Was communist the word you intended to use?

[@thegraphitedragon1434]

@@welovettrpgs nope. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. Why ascribe to malice(ignoring the rule) what can be explained by incompetence (autocorrect).

[@welovettrpgs]

@@thegraphitedragon1434 Thanks! :) I thought that might be! Glad to have you here!

[@krempelritter9950]

Another great video! Back in the 90s I never would have imagined RPG players excluding anyone. Usually we were the ones being excluded. I do remember the days 'nerd' was be a slur, and I'm so glad they're over. There's a multitude of ways to play RPGs and all of them are valid, provided everyone is having fun. It never seizes to amaze mr when someone like Ginny, Bob or you shows me yet another way. But again and again I see older players claiming the hobby has gotten worse. Thank you for proving them wrong once again!

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank you!

[@andersand6576]

Agree on people not getting excluded in the olden days. Cannot remember a situation before 2010 I have seen it. It was more about begging people to join to get a full group, so few of us were there.

[@GKahla]

Your description of the word grognard forced me to pause the video, wait for my laughing fit to pass, then catch my breath before starting it up again. 😂 Thank you again for sharing your clear vision and positive guidance. It's refreshing to catch your videos which recognize the differences between the generations, editions, and niches in this wild hobby without being negative. You bring light into the world, and that's awesome. 😎👍

[@welovettrpgs]

:) ahh thank you very much!

[@RyeAlboa]

Wise words, relayed evenhandedly and gifted from one with a level head!?!… What deep magic & tool proficiency is this! 😂 Well done and thanks good Sir!

[@welovettrpgs]

aww thank you!!

[@LaMirah]

Preach it, brother Aten! While bullying in either direction is unacceptable, as the elders we need to set an example; there's no right way to play, and there's no wrong way to play. Much like the hexcrawling renaissance showed us that there's a lot of "lost" wisdom in older gaming tables and materials, there's a lot of new wisdom in recent systems and gaming tables. We could all use some humility and try to find the best in what others are doing.

[@welovettrpgs]

Exactly. And newer gamers on youtube arent immune to some negativity as well but I feel us grognards have a particular responsibility to lead my example showing it isnt ok. Thanks!

[@marhawkman303]

@@welovettrpgs Worst, IMO is the "anti-bullying" crowd who.... oppress any views they disagree with.... and label everyone who disagrees bullies.

[@rogerb181]

The satanic panic was a real frustrating time, to be sure. Play the ttrpg you want to play, how you want to play, with the players you enjoy gaming with. Somebody on the internet does not like how you play? Whatever. Who cares? Your game is a shared experience with your fellow players. The rules are a guideline, not laws. Listen to many different sources for opinions, then keep what works for you. If some Grognard or "kid" tells you that you are doing it wrong, remember that unless you are playing in some official tournament, the rules are played as the game group agrees upon. I am a Grognard, and I have made mistakes in the way rules worked. I also made my own house rules. My players only had a problem with it if it they were not having a good time. Enjoy the hobby, encourage others to do so as well. Ignore those people who are working hard to make it less fun. For the record, I have alot of respect for people who are brave enough to get online and provide content for the gaming community to enjoy.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank you! It's great to hear positive grognard feedback! Glad youre here!

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

In my country, when the hobby really launched, we had our "satanic panic" as well. Considering "Vampire the Mascada" was the most played those days, I can understand the concern though.

[@kadmii]

two ways to respond to being treated like dirt: 1. I don't want someone else to be treated like they're damaged and alone. 2. I want others to be treated as badly as I was so I don't feel damaged and alone anymore.

[@welovettrpgs]

yup

[@ljmiller96]

I agree. I would make two points in support: - First, clearly many grognards were on the same spectrum many younger, newer players are on today, and people on that spectrum tend to be fractious. But once a grognard becomes a grognard, they've had long enough to learn how to be polite and kind. Be kind to each other, folks. - Second, I had the opportunity to watch Ginny Di playing in an episode of the Dungeon Dudes' 5E live streams where she played the most hilarious character I've ever seen on a stream. She summoned her best Eeyore energy and never broke character. Anyone would be lucky to have a player like her in their group.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thanks for sharing that! And I think some of the younger players are actually father than I was at the same point in their gaming years. Bob Worldbuilder is a great example. He's got a lot rpg Grognard wisdom for a much younger guy. (Though I started at ten so I was bad at everything).

[@bluebird3281]

She was great in that

[@danielpasilis4046]

I may well be a Grognard, and while I am "Forced" to behave like an "Adult" I refuse to "Grow Up"...This is the hill I will die on

[@welovettrpgs]

lol Lets build a wall around our hill! :)

[@emjtucson]

Promote “old school” philosophy, not demean other play styles. When they're ready, they'll experience the freshness of its concepts.

[@welovettrpgs]

Agreed!

[@doomhippie6673]

You Sir are always a pleasure to watch, listen to and to think about what you say. I am a Grognard but fortunately I am happy that TTRPG hav so many young people playing them their way. As long as I don''t have to play it the same way they do. Not that it is wrong, I just might have some different things that interest me. That said one of my players is an ex-student of mine and it was the best decision ever to invite her into my group. So many new and wonderful ideas. So much inspiration for an old dude ike me.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank you for that great uplifting positive message! I could make an entire KZbin career out of just trash videos and disagreeing wioth people but I prefer to surround myself with fine people such as yourself. Thanks!

[@Lemonheadcrab]

Im proud of content makers are promoting more then just D&D now. It really gives me an extremely positive view on where TTRPGs are heading.

[@welovettrpgs]

It's where I've always been and will continue to be. I'm not here to chase trending topics or appeal to the lowest common denominator. If something is on my mind I'll make a video about it.

[@Jiamaavindur]

Thank you for making this video, these ideas are something particularly important to me. Although I was never an outright bully, in recent years I have found myself looking back with some shame on my younger self, as I have come to realise that the way I expressed myself to my friends could sometimes be quite hurtful, unless I made deliberate efforts to filter and reformulate what I wanted to say - which I rarely did. I never set out to hurt anyone, but I am now painfully aware that I did just that on many occasions. Although it slows down my thinking and makes spoken communication more laborious, I now force myself to preview what I want to say, and to ask myself, "how would I feel if someone said this to me?" before saying a word. Yet I do agree that it is important to be able to openly and honestly have discussions and to express opinions, even on 'trivial' topics like gaming. I enjoy talking to people about this hobby, even someone who is lauding a system I personally find excruciating. I don't mind people disagreeing with me or not liking the same things I do, as long as they do so without being an a-hole; and that's the goal I now aim for in expressing my own views. We also definitely need to express intolerance of toxic behaviour, but as you demonstrated in this video, even this can be done in a respectful, dignified manner, without all the venom and bile. In short, we could do with a few more Elwood P. Dowds in the community: “In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.” And you may quote me. :) (By the bye, that origin of the term 'grognard' is fascinating. I never clocked it before, even after learning Welsh (similarities with French in many cases), in which the verb 'to grumble' is 'grwgnach'!)

[@welovettrpgs]

Thanks1 Looking back and questioning our past actions, even .. or especially when not intended - is a valuable sign of growth and anyone who looks back and does not feel they could have done better is either not being honest with themselves or they haven't grown which is likely a sign of being a really terrible person.

[@macoppy6571]

"Why must you look down at me?" said the Gnome to the Centaur. "I'm not a bully," said the Minotaur to no one in particular.

[@welovettrpgs]

That is so random! Thank you!

[@marhawkman303]

@@welovettrpgs It's kind of an interesting way to see it though... the Gnome is physically much smaller... thus in a very literal sense the Minotaur DOES look down at it... but not out of spite or malice, but because of size. this actually does have an equivalent in TTRPGs. A lot of people will say things like "I like doing it like this because it's worked well in the past." It's simultaneously saying they don't see it as the ONLY way... but also saying it's A way that has been tested and PROVEN. It's not egotistical posturing, but simply stating facts. I've seen people get hardcore triggered by those statements and get seriously butt-hurt because someone dared tell them how to do things. Except it wasn't a command, it was a suggestion. It's like how the D&D game master's guide isn't "the law" it's more a set of guidelines. (yes, exactly like the PotC meme) A lot of the louder(and I mean whinier) people in the TTRPG community... don't seem to understand any of this. they whine about "toxic" statements... when they simply didn't understand the statement,, and talk about a history of exclusion.... that they weren't around to have any personal knowledge of.

[@JanStals]

I can not express how much this video resonated with me. It is a great video. I live in South Africa and if possible, role players were even more ostracized here in the mid/late 80s when I started playing. This hobby taught me a lot about myself and I think tolerance was one of the best things I learned from this great pastime. It is a lesson I hope to be more mindful of going forward.

[@welovettrpgs]

Wow! Thank you! I am touched!

[@swordsnstones]

Absolutely fantastic video my friend! Yes bullying is real in all aspects of our lives and our hobby. It's unfortunate, and its wrong. All we can do is what you are doing here, stand up to the insecure bullies and put them in their place and preferably out of our hobby. I too am a product of bullying in my pre-teens, resulting in me joining a karate dojo. At the same time I was getting into ADND, and both of them, Karate and DND saved my life. Both from the bullies and from my insecurity and fear. Today i teach self-defense to help others protect themselves, and i am finally back into my other fav hobby [since 2020] and trying to share that with others to not only have fun but help them maybe in some small way. I HATE BULLIES!! Keep 'em Rollin'

[@swordsnstones]

@welovettrpgs your videos like this is why you are my fav content creator. Keep up the great work sir!

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank you so much!

[@Calvin.of.Martin.Street]

It's like we're joined at the brain. I learned to play and then DM in a mostly theater of the mind style of play. My first DM (and good friend to this day) could make you smell the bread baking two blocks away. He was an amazing storyteller, though his greatest fault was using DMPCs. When he graduated college I took what I learned from him, threw out the things I didn't like (DMPCs being the big thing), and honed my descriptive and emotive storytelling skills, still in a theater of the mind context. My friends and I built an amazing homebrew campaign world and filled it with their amazing PCs and their exploits great and small. I set things in motion for the adventures, played off what the players did, and never forced them down a path I would rather them take. I adapted to them just like they reacted to me. I retired from full time DMing in May of 2023 after nearly 40 years of perma-DMing. I miss it and still run one shot for friends occasionally, but it's someone else's turn to drive the trolley. Thank you for this video. I couldn't agree more with everything you said. Keep the faith.

[@welovettrpgs]

Your support is awesome! Thank you!

[@tombolenbaugh4030]

"It would have been a blessing to have had those voices when we were kids learning to play." So... much... truth... SO much truth. Especially those of us who were learning to play in an isolated group. Thanks for saying this.

[@pablogdeanda]

I'm not really a TTRGP player (because no one plays tabletop D&D in my country), but I played with Aten in some of those D&D Online years and I can tell you this; when I was looking for a guild and send a message to one of Aten's guildmates they sent me to him, and he proceeced to basically interview me for about 5 minutes about several topics, one of which was why do I play the game, how do I behave with players I don't know and if I was willing to help new players that needed information or counsel. After that he welcomed me to the guild and we had a blast; between us players and guildmates we teased each other all the time with all types of jokes including dark humor, but always made sure that the people listenting to our shit talk knew this was playing between friends. Aside from that, we always helped new players with advice, information and guidance and made sure they could enjoy the game, not because that would mean more players and more fun for us (although, thats nice too), but because it was the right thing to do. None of this was my idea, I learned that in our guild B&H while playing Aten and his friends. It was truly an application of 'Be a mentor, not an adversary'.

[@welovettrpgs]

You're so wonderful! Thanks! It's really great to be your friend! I miss hanging out killing stuff!

[@JohnHall-po6ts]

My good sir, thank you for this video. I'm a fellow grognard, and I could not agree more. I'm thrilled there are young people, and especially for the enthusiastic female (and other genders) members of our hobby community. I've learned so much from younger players and players who aren't the Old Guard like us. This is an important video, about an important issue and you are to be commended.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank you so much!! I really appreciate your support. Somehow it's generated a LOT of hate and lost subscribers.

[@JohnHall-po6ts]

@@welovettrpgs That's unfortunate and disappointing, but I have a feeling your numbers will come back up and with people who understand why your position on bullying is the so important.

[@TheSasquatchjones]

I may not look like it now, but I was bullied heavily in my childhood. I DESPISE bullying and "piling on". The fact that there are people with a platform harassing or bullying someone because she's a pretty girl who "doesn't know what she's talking about" triggers me and makes my blood boil. I have ZERO tolerance for people like this in my life. I came into D&D very late in my life. Mostly because of social anxiety which I still struggle with to this day. So I read a lot and watch a lot of KZbin. Thank you for this video.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank you for sharing your story! It's important others hear that! Thanks!

[@MarkHyde]

I escaped bullying into the TTRPG hobby in high school - not to be one myself. Great video.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank you!

[@ChristopherRoss.]

A sacrifice for the algorithm. Don't really have anything to add to the conversation, as I'm not what you would call a grognard and I purposefully steer clear of rage bait channels and don't engage with clickbait. I'm also someone who has been... shall we say damaged by bullying throughout my childhood, and I will not stand for that shit, so good on you Aten.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank you my friend! I was really worried this video would get a bunch of hate. (So far the hate has been very small.)

[@HeavyTopspin]

So two things I've noticed, although they have little bearing on the specific examples raised here: 1. Overall, the people who complain about being bullied tend to be the biggest bullies of all, but doing it an a passive-aggressive manner to paint anyone who doesn't agree with them as some group of ideological undesirables. 2. Remember who was playing D&D back in the "old days". Definitely not the pretty popular athletic people, but there was one group that we absolutely could look down on: those who simply lacked the intellect to properly comprehend the game, which admittedly was far more complex than it is now (and yes, an evil little part of me wants to see certain members of the cast of Critical Role attempt to run combat with weapon speed factors, multiple stacking modifiers, THACO, and all the other math-based minutiae of AD&D). And there's no denying that the modern game has worked hard at bringing more and more of this type of player into the hobby.

[@welovettrpgs]

5E is definitely made for the masses. I used to have a negative opinion of Critical role until I discovered their very first videos on ... vine I think it was called? I came to realize Mercer is the real deal. He actually truly loves the hobby. He found a way to get some fame and money out of that passion. There are certainly examples of other people in different fields, this one included) with people just cashing in on something but I learned he really isnt a fake. I still dont watch them - except their cartoon - but I am happy for his success.

[@HeavyTopspin]

@@welovettrpgs Oh I agree, his knowledge is in-depth and I'd wager he probably still could deal with all the old math-y rules. It's some of his players who literally have to count their die roll calculations out loud that I'm thinking of.

[@welovettrpgs]

@@HeavyTopspin thanks! that dice counting made me giggle!

[@SnowWolf9999]

@@HeavyTopspin I really wonder how much of that is for show and theatrics though, I mean the original cast played as a group running pathfinder 1e "mathfinder" for a few years before they switched to 5e to "streamline" the play so it wasn't boring for the audience, and thinking if they had 3 years of experience in Pathfinder 1e they had to be able to do math better than they appear to on the show.

[@helixxharpell]

As an old grognard myself, I kinda feel like what Billy Gibbons of ZZ-Top said when they came out of their long hiatus, he said "Our sound changed because we have all these new toys to play with!" Whether you're a fan of the Deguello sound or the Eliminator sound, it makes no difference. That's still ZZ-Top, and that's how music & D&D has evolved. 😃👍🏻

[@welovettrpgs]

'Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed Manes! :)

[@helixxharpell]

@welovettrpgs ha! Aten always the sharp dresser for these videos! 😃👍🏻 Ya know I even started my day by saying, "Alexa, play Just Got Paid by ZZ-Top!" And ya know what? She actually did! Enjoy your weekend Aten! Keep doing what you're doing!

[@Mr_GoR_]

I've never understood why people who participate in our hobbies, who have had to put up with bullying or ridicule, will be so quick to perpetrate that same kind of harm on other people who take an interest in our hobbies. And it's not just with TTRPGs and gaming, you'll find it in almost every Fandom/ community. Side note: It's always been the dumbest thing you know? Gamer dudes talk about how cool it would be to meet a girl who's into the same stuff. And then what happens the moment they hear a female voice in the chat? Anyway, great video.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thanks!

[@WTFoolproof]

usually when I watch you tube I'll turn up the volume if I need to get up to go and get a snack or whatever. with quality videos like your's I will pause the video and continue when I can give it full attention. I want to miss nothing.

[@welovettrpgs]

ahh thats so sweet! Thank you!

[@nabra97]

When somebody tells me "what you like sucks, and you either don't know anything better, or you are just an idiot", it's just a mental note "I'm staying away from you, including in real life (unless one of us desperately needs help)". When it's "liking what you like is a betrayal of the community"... It makes me extremely uncomfortable for certain pretty dark non-game reasons.

[@welovettrpgs]

Agreed. I try to remember the downvotes and hate posting is more about the other person than anything in this (or other) videos. I dated in a woman in the 90s that was super controlling of everyone and it taught me those who try to control others do so because they have no control over themselves.

[@earthenkindquests]

Thank you for sharing the positive message and advice! As an older generation person, i agree 100%

[@welovettrpgs]

Absolutely!! Thank You for supporting this important message!

[@AeronHale]

One should never judge someone who wants to play before you've actually sat down and played a few sessions with them. Especially if they're new and just getting into playing tabletop. Some of the most entertaining sessions I've played have been a bunch of newbies to ttrpgs playing one shots at cons. Often times new blood brings new perspectives and ideas to the table. Everybody should be welcomed until they've given you a reason to not want them at the table.

[@welovettrpgs]

I very much want to volunteer for the children's hospital as a DM for sick children. I think it would help them and I know I would love doing it! Locally I also intend on translating my channel success to forming a community here where I live to promote the hobby when the time is right. I was thinking about the local library with afterschool activities to promote learning!

[@AeronHale]

@@welovettrpgs Hell yeah! Those are excellent ideas. I bet the kids would have an absolute blast doing it and it'd probably work wonders for their mental health too. Being sick is stressful & so is school so having a good way to destress like playing some D&D is a good idea.

[@jont3295]

Agreed on Bob. I enjoy his videos, his positive attitude and focus on having fun with your group. I also like his suggestions on improving our games. I watch Ginny Di. Like Bob, i like the positive attitude and emphasis on fun. If there is a minor detraction, it's her advice is a little more generic, but there's plenty of room for that, especially for players new to the hobby.

[@welovettrpgs]

For sure!

[@carboneagle]

I think it's mostly an internet problem. I've never seen it in real life, with the exception of one friend group I DMed where they were perfectly civil until they started playing. Their characters were horrible to eachother and were the primary cause of character death, but everyone had fun, there were no hurt feelings and that was just their group dynamic. That was my favourite group I ever DMed.

[@Ian_Butterworth]

Thank you for the video. I agree with all the points you made and they were well-delivered.

[@welovettrpgs]

My pleasure!

[@tavaroevanis8744]

"Be a mentor, not an adversary." Given our TTRPG pedigrees, I suspect we are in the same age group. I wish that I had the privilege of playing with more experienced folks when I first cracked open AD&DE1.

[@hypersphere412]

I'm a 50 year old gamer with cerebral palsy. When I played D&D back in high school in the 80's, I was bullied so badly because of my disability that I was hospitalized, twice. I loved AD&D, and I still do, but I'm happily running 5e games for friends, first time players including my neighbour and his son, my son and his friends, and now I am helping to run the local high school's RPG club. Yes, I think 5e goes a little easy on the players, but you can always make things more challenging if you need to. What I do love about 5e, is that it leans heavily into RP'ing more than AD&D ever did, not to mention that the hobby is far more inclusive now, which is the way it should be. No time to moan about the past, just play the game that you love with the people you love. End of story.

[@welovettrpgs]

Agreed! Thanks for being here!

[@JackCharlesBrightwell]

I'm someone who started playing D&D during 5e and was introduced to older modules thanks to people like Matt Colville and Seth Skorkowsky mentioning them. I wanted more content like that so it brought me to many OSR and grognard youtubers, and I've learnt a lot from them. I've only been taking DMing as a serious hobby since 2020 but my players are always telling me that they at least like my games, and that's in large part thanks to these guys. It's just a shame that to get to the nuggets of gold, I've had to sift through hours of gatekeepery bitching about people like me who got into the hobby during this current boom

[@welovettrpgs]

Whatever brought you here shouldn't matter. Ignore that. It's more about those people lacking any real value in their lives and feeling a need to be possessive of what little they have. I'm not trying to be mean, I've seen that a lot. Because D&D is all they really have it becomes uncomfortable for them to share it with others. Feel pity for them and keep looking for those who accept you.

[@gamemasters]

fantastic words! I'm getting up there in age (yeah, I admit it) and I fully recognize that our generation of grognardism outlook has a responsibility to "pass the torch" so to speak. I've got younger players in my gaming group as well as older players, and the amount of times that those younger players have come up with some major out of the box thinking has far surpassed what the veterans of the game have considered. It keeps me on my toes for sure and I'm happy to have them here. We play a "version" of 5th edition, 5e being the core but I also pepper in mechanics from other systems, for example, when we do a mass battle, we use a version of Warhammer Fantasy rules. Doing a big Spelljammer battle? Battlefleet Gothic all the way! I even use the dice pool mechanic from Vampire the Masquerade when we have a contest of abilities.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thanks buddy!

[@Loreweavver]

Hey kids. Let your younger sibling play with you. Hey kids. Let your younger sibling win once in awhile. Hey kids. Your younger sibling doesn't like this game so we are going to change it. Hey kids. If you can't play the game with the new rules you'll just have to leave.

[@welovettrpgs]

I've read your comment several times. Still can't decide what it means. If you'd like to elaborate it would be appreciated.

[@Loreweavver]

@@welovettrpgs a bit of gatekeeping is entirely justified. I was an unpopular kid with a small friend group of misfits. It's saddened me to see the things we got bullied about for playing become pop culture and the bullies decide it's cool and bully out the misfits once again. Its all well and good if the person being invited to the table enjoys the game but if the game is continually altered to favor the new person over the old then who is bullying who?

[@dmcdraws]

Well, your positivity and insight are the main reason I'm here, so... go Aten! :)

[@welovettrpgs]

Thats awesome! Great to have you here!

[@djeternaldarkness3769]

Good job as usual Aten! Also thanks for the heads up on the bag of holding!

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank you! Love you my friend!

[@ThunderSqueak]

I am one of those old "Moldvay Basic" players you refered too XD I still get those looks from older AD&D, 3.5, and 5th ed players when I suggest playing a basic D&D module. I also had to put up with that satanic panic garbage. I am just glad that these days I can still get the occasional 1 shot of Basic going for a break from whatever the newest edition is. :) Just gotta keep reminding people that it is a game and to have fun!

[@welovettrpgs]

I went from Holmes to AD&D 1E. Moldvay is really great and still very popular! No shame or hate there! It's still highly regarded as one of the best versions and in a lot of ways I feel 5E is closer to it than any previous edition.

[@ThunderSqueak]

@@welovettrpgs These days I usually use the Rules Cyclopedia, so glad I picked up 2 copies back in the day. One for me and a table copy. I was just about to run some friends through a small campaign based in Karameikos, but I might start in Thunder rift to get them started and used to the rules. The one thing I often find is people who have only ever played newer editions often get this idea that "if it does not exist as a skill or specific rule you cannot even try to do that thing". Need to keep prompting them for a while until they catch on :)

[@ThunderSqueak]

@@welovettrpgs I didn't mention 4th as those players get looked down on more than us old Basic players.

[@welovettrpgs]

@@ThunderSqueak oh for sure!

[@Giantstomp]

I played tons of DDO myself. I love that they have started opening up a Hardcore perma death server a couple times a year. Its a whole lot of fun :)

[@welovettrpgs]

I did return for a couple of those hardcore events (I missed the first one but did the next two). Even made it on the leaderboard both times and I play one-handed. (left hand is partially paralyzed) I think the hardcore events I played in were great for sure.

[@Giantstomp]

@@welovettrpgs My favorite time was before levels over 20 when the guilds were active. I will say 5E sure did inject new life into that old game. Still nothing better than it as far as a D&D feel for a video game.

[@WTFoolproof]

@@welovettrpgsIf you don't mind me asking, was crush damage to nerves part of the cause of the partial paralysis in your hand? Because a very tasty wild mushroom can sometimes help with nerve crush damage or myelin sheath stuff. Also the mushroom is easily cultivated. You should be able to locate some one way or the other. I know supplements are also sold but idk about them. The hericium mushroom family are all basically identical but have slightly different forms. Often called lion's mane or bear's tooth.

[@praxistallyogarro]

❤ Thank you for the video Aten. But... no just kidding no buts.😂

[@welovettrpgs]

haha ... :) Thanks!

[@paavohirn3728]

Hear hear!

[@welovettrpgs]

Thanks!

[@paavohirn3728]

@@welovettrpgs Thank you!

[@Acroyear4]

Great video! Thanks for creating it.

[@welovettrpgs]

Glad you liked it!

[@jackmorrison5272]

I agree 100%. I must admit as a grognard myself I am sometimes baffled when I see peoplo who have been gaming for just six years making a living by giving DnD advice. But then I watch some of the videos and some are actually quite inspiring as you see new takes on old problems. Other times I still shake my head in disbelief when I see where these new gamers put the enfasis of their storytelling. But I suppose thats the fun of difffernt generations playing the same hobby. Just have to be careful to grumble in a respectful and well intentioned manner

[@welovettrpgs]

agreed! Thanks!

[@VulpineTales]

I wasn’t around for AD&D 1-2 but I do kinda remember what it was like before the 5e craze. When the hobby was very much still under the radar in the general populous. I always wished I had more friends to play the game with and am baffled by the amount of gatekeeping I see. It’s really nice to hear and watch someone from the older generation of gamers not complain but lift up newer folks in the hobby. From one of said newer folks, thank you.

[@welovettrpgs]

My pleasure. Thanks

[@searchforsecretdoors]

Absolutely. I grew up playing the Mentzer Red Box edition before moving to 2e. I'm also transgender, having transitioned later in life. The presence of younger women like Ginny Di and Kelsey Dionne has been incredibly important for me to remind me that I still belong in this hobby.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank you for your support!

[@davidtripp2118]

Glad I stumbled across this channel.

[@welovettrpgs]

Me too! Thanks!

[@centurion7398]

I have never understood why these divides exist. Your tables your rules. From either direction, on the political spectrum.It's literally a completely customizable experience, and you can even play it by yourself. Why would anyone get offended that somebody was doing something a different way. You can make suggestions you think might help improve somebody else's quality of life, but why on earth would you try to force the issue. Or be mean. "Their tryin to make DnD Woke!" Why do you care what WOTC says make your drow as evil as you want. "This game lacks so and so representation." Change the characters in it around based on sex or identity you want. It's your game guys make it yours. Stop worrying what others are doing and keep the peace of the table you're at. That's blessedly rare enough as it is. Another banger dude. Say it louder for the people in the back.

[@welovettrpgs]

Youre awesome! Thanks my friend!

[@DavidShepheard]

I'm a person who converted from 2nd Edition AD&D to 3rd Edition D&D, but I prefer the settings of 2e, so I consider myself a no-school fan. I will say that I've helped signal boost 4th Edition D&D content a bunch of times (not because I like 4e - I don't) because I want to help out other gamers. And time and again, I've had people butt in when I've posted something telling 4e fans about something cool to "explain" to me that "nobody likes 4e". It's not happened every single time, but I have lost count at the number of people who felt the need to punch down on 4e. And I'm not talking of stuff that happened during the 4th Edition. I'm talking about in the time since 5e came out. People really do need to like what they like and not yuck at other people's yum.

[@williamhoover6902]

I’ll give you another paradox… those that claim tolerance to silence opinions they don’t like by labeling them intolerant are not tolerant.

[@welovettrpgs]

There's clearly a difference between intolerance and a difference of opinions. One of my blackboards in the video touches on that. I recommend reading Karl Poppers thoughts on the topic.

[@AlanVonGoodleef]

Amen. I was bullied a lot when I was younger. It is sad that people are still doing that. Even the younger kids are still doing that. I'm glad that you made this video. I'm going to share it on my Facebook.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank You!

[@AlanVonGoodleef]

@@welovettrpgs you're welcome.

[@robnecronomicon1570]

As I've said before, everyone is welcome into the hobby (except for A-holes). I certainly don't agree with any form of bullying or sexism. I don't have anything against D&D5e, it's the settings that I think are awfully twee tho'. I think it's legitimate to criticize people when they make claims that are untrue or based purely on their emotional views. But bullying is not on. Many of the nu cozy D&D influences I have no interest in, but that doesn't mean they are not legitimate creators by any means.

[@welovettrpgs]

Sounds like we agree. I've had to turn off some videos by newer gamer influencers to prevent myself from "trying to correct them" until I just got over myself and figured they're all on their own journey. The larger channels have a lot of responsibility to get it right all the time and that would suck. I have been thinking of addressing that in the future.

[@robnecronomicon1570]

​@@welovettrpgs This is it man... As far as I'm concerned if the younger gen are having fun then they are doing it right. Sometimes it can be easy to get caught up in the negativity (I do, sadly). But my main main gripe is generally with the corporate side (Disney, WoTC). I may not like Ginny D's content per se (we are different people) but there's no doubt that she has a talent as an influencer and she's definitely tapped into the pulse of the younger gen. Plus, it's good for female gamers to have a large influencer like her in the industry too.

[@azzaelulbrinter]

With the thumnbnail, I thought it was the bullying against the D&D brand itself. I see so many "D&D is dead!" and "D&D killer" or "WotC did this bad thing now!" that's exhausting.

[@welovettrpgs]

I mock those people here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZ3MqZKEmrCEhrc

[@MarkCMG]

Thanks for the video! Well said!

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank you!

[@jonytequileiro]

I only suffered a type of bully on the internet after 2020 when i started looking for online tables and my love for psionics, somehow people on the internet have the weirdest ideia of psionics being broken and stupidly overpowered, when irl i never met someone, even in game events, that did such a claim oh and i'm still waiting for someone to explain with logic and facts their view on this subject, until today i only saw people that didn't understood the system and manchilds throwing tantrums

[@welovettrpgs]

I have "opinions" about psionics and i've talked about them in one of my videos before but wow .. getting bullied for having a different opinion about a thing in a fantasy game where everything is made up is just so wrong.

[@jonytequileiro]

@@welovettrpgs the insults made me look like John Travolta in pulp fiction

[@timothyperrigoue3997]

I've not had this problem at my table, yet if a bully started in, they'd get a private emphatic warning to change their behavior OR be politely given a face saving excuse to leave.

[@philipboardman1357]

As someone who started in 2E, and has a special place in his heart for 3E, I'm saddened to hear that people from my generation of gaming would bully any gamers for liking 5E. I know it's cliche, but we are all stronger together. And we should remember that if we have the time and energy to bully, we should channel that time and energy into something productive, like bullying 4E gamers.

[@welovettrpgs]

Agreed! about everything! :)

[@tntori5079]

It is absolutely FASCINATING to me how universal the "snow-uphill-both-ways" story is. XD If it makes you feel any better I haven't gotten anything in my comments about my gender. I wasn't even aware that was a thing. Because even in gaming shops eal life I haven't gotten any poor or different treatment. Aka. there's some hope. Not all ppl are terrible. =) good video though. I LOVE your unique perspective as a older gen player but with such an open awareness of younger Gen players. Truly no other channel like it. Also LOVE Ginny Di =) and Bob. And You and DC20 (hint would be very curious what you think of it)

[@welovettrpgs]

Thanks!

[@tntori5079]

@@welovettrpgs side note have you heard of a channel called "Goths in Rome" ? They normally do political stuff BUT! They did a video on Hasbro I think everyone should hear. Especially ppl who like nuance. Because it turns out all the bandwagon hating on Hasbro might not be correct. Turns out situations have more moving parts and it's not always black n white. I mention because your videos always remind me that things are often more complicated than we'd like to admit with our quick judgements =)

[@welovettrpgs]

@@tntori5079 Thank You!

[@Timonsaylor]

It's frustrating, because I tend to sympathize with some of the points made by these people, but I find myself frustrated when instead of standing behind their legitimate criticisms, they just jump on the lowest hanging fruit about how "people only watch her because she's cute." Good discourse is so important, but it's impossible to have when one or more sides are just being bitter and nasty.

[@christopherdecator9742]

So well said! It's weird to see my clandestine hobby go mainstream, but it's also wonderful. It's a shame straight up bigotry and toxic tribalism gets so much traction. Thank you.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thanks!

[@JackFetch-eb1gr]

Insightful comments as always, I'm also a Grognard and agree that the newbies should be free their 5e but I feel I must say they shouldn't be belittling those of us that prefer our old school games which is an attitude I've encountered at my FLGS

[@welovettrpgs]

Agreed. It goes both ways. I think one of my blackboards addressed that. Grognards have a responsibility to lead by example.

[@JackFetch-eb1gr]

@@welovettrpgs with age should come wisdom but I like you am still learning patience

[@SalsaDoom1840]

Cant argue against just being polite. The Intolerance of intolerance however generally leads to some pretty dark places. The standard example being that modern society tolerates many minority religions, groups that are themselves often intolerant. Ok so we will accept some people being intolerant, but not others and who decides?

[@welovettrpgs]

Read Karl Popper's thoughts on it. There are clearly civilized limits to what we define as intolerance vs disagreement.

[@SalsaDoom1840]

@@welovettrpgs It seems like he is saying we should tolerate the intolerant until they cross some line, such as promoting violence. Some say the line should be anything that causes someone else offence, which could be anything. The problem is the line is arbitrary, and the "Devil lies in the details".

[@welovettrpgs]

@@SalsaDoom1840 I think the placement of that line is definitely where the debate is strongest and different people will have different views. We cannot however allow the overly sensitive (ie intolerant) to suggest that line should be drawn at anything that simply makes them uncomfortable. I'm a paranormal investigator/debunker and I despise the ghost hunting shows for preying on vulnerable people. I might be deemed intolerant of them but I can also point to the real harm those shows do to vulnerable people. Violence comes in many forms, emotional and physical. I will argue that lying is a form of violence as it is a theft from others, denying them the freedom to make informed decisions. In the context of this video, I think each person will need to draw their own conclusions and decide for themselves what they value.

[@MadAdamStudio]

On the topic of being a grognard, I almost miss the 1e AD&D Bullies. They had to tell me and my buddies how much we sucked to our faces. That, at least, took some sand, you know? Like, they had to face you and risk some kind of reprisal from an actual human being that could possibly cause them to reconsider their words. It used to be harder to act the a-hole to someone's face than it seems to be now, and it's dead easy if it's only words on a screen. Now, as to whether the 5e is the best edition of the game... this is a bit like asking people who their favourite Doctor or Bond is.* 5e is a great 'do-everything' system. Each of the other editions had their charms. As you say, there are other games that you can play any time you want to, many of which do things better than D&D. But EVERYONE plays now, even the Richards who picked on it back in the day, thanks to us grognards keeping it alive. And since more people have found 5e, by your own assertion they'll think it's the best. And so, it is. We just don't prefer it. Thanks again, Aten. Another smash hit! (* They all have their merits and charms, and their devotees will tell you why theirs is the best. They are all absolutely correct.)

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank You my friend! Your message landed at just the right time. The hate this video has received has me reconsidering my efforts on KZbin. Thanks again.

[@MadAdamStudio]

You're doing Goth's work here. I always enjoy your content and make a point of engaging with it, so I get your videos hot and fresh, even if I don't immediately watch them. And here's the thing... so do your haters. They engage and follow your content *just to pick on the goth*. Yes, that same old tired crap. Small things for small minds, they say. Stay the course, rise above, and keep up the good work, Aten. I got you.

[@welovettrpgs]

@@MadAdamStudio Thank You!!

[@andrewlustfield6079]

Looks like my comment got eaten--here goes again.. Back when I first started playing in 82, I also started going to a middle school that was over 90% black. We tried to get other kids in our school to play, but there was a lot of peer pressure on our classmates not to play with those nerdy white kids with the demons on the book covers. And yet when I went to local conventions, either Dallas Con or the Dallas fantasy fair, there were all sorts of gamers of all colors and genders. My first Gen Con in 87 was just wild. Were women and persons of color under represented? Yeah, sure. But they were there and they were always welcome. As far as I was aware, everyone was there to play games. That's all that mattered. Fast forward to the early and mid nineties, when I was in the army--that same pressure was there for some of the black soldiers who might otherwise have joined a game. It just seemed to me to be a rejection of gaming on a tribal level at that time--chess? card games? Sure. We could play those. But D&D or any RPG was just a bridge too far. I'm really glad to see that has changed. At least from my experience, finding women players became a lot easier, in large part due to Vampire. I started as a player in a game as a Ventrue named Johnathon Allenby, and I quickly wound up taking the game over when our GM's enlistment was up. What I discovered is that Vampire had a cross gender appeal, and we had so much fun with it. But then I started a D&D game,too. And when I approached some of my female vampire players, they were skeptical at first. "D&D? Really? I'm not so sure. I suppose I could try it." I wound up running groups that were 50% women in the army and let me tell you--they were having a blast! I've run into some pretty awful behavior over the years, most of it has seemed to come from players who were steeped computer game/video game culture before coming to RPGs. I have no doubt there are some terrible grognards out there---in any group there are some pretty bad folks. But I don't recall that being the culture we fostered--hell, we were just trying to get people to play games with us. Whether it was D&D, or Car Wars, or Battletech or Starfleet Battles. Maybe even Paranoia.

[@welovettrpgs]

I saw a comment get eaten earlier. I had to locate the poster to let him know I had approved it three times. And yeah, terrible people can come in all shapes, sizes, places etc. I make a choice to surround myself with people who arent toxic. Id rather be alone and thirsty than drinking poison in a crowded room.

[@andrewlustfield6079]

@@welovettrpgs In the immortal words of Socrates, "I drank what?"

[@UristMcKerman]

From title I expected to hear about community bullying on WotC. The way some content creators are ganging up on WotC definetly qualifies as bullying (WotC are kind of vulnerable, compared to megacorp Hasbro). As victim of bullying (back in days had to go against good portion of my school class), huge 👍

[@welovettrpgs]

Low hanging fruits reaching for low hanging fruit. I live near WotC. It's no secret they suck and only want money. Hearing people make videos about it is like listening to Duran Duran's "The Reflex" - I'm really tired of it now. :) I'm glad you enjoyed the video!

[@generalsci3831]

Are you playing characters going into dark scary places to retrieve elusive and valuable treasure? Sounds like a solid TTRPG to me!

[@welovettrpgs]

Exactly!

[@anon-yw4wd]

Accepting anyone at the table for a game is a good thing, one that 99% of gamers agree on that I have ever seen IRL or online. Having said that the issue of playstyle is real. I run 2E in an open sandbox classic adventure gaming style where roleplaying is not central but adventuring and game mechanics are central. I do not want 10-page character backstories or character archs. This simply does not happen in my game. How many here would be ok with that style of play? If they were not they would not fit into the game no matter who they are. Conversely, I would not want to play in a game heavy with set pieces and character archs, nor would I fit in. Sometimes I think some people think being refused into a game because they do not fit into the group is a form of bullying. It is not. This is simply protecting the integrity of the game and the fun of the other players. Anyways, that is my 2 cents. I also do not care about Ginny D as I am not the target audience. If others like her content good on them. Bob has some great advice about a great many things though. His content about building worlds and systems in game is more my jam. If Ginny D was all about world building and system in game I'd probably watch her more.

[@welovettrpgs]

I love 2E. Still, so far my favorite. But that might be more about the memories of my youth than the mechanics.

[@anon-yw4wd]

I still like the mechanics, but it is what it is. Others don't and that is ok too.

[@albertjohnson4217]

Keeping politics out of the content and comments inspires me to return, like and subscribe.

[@welovettrpgs]

I've been a small business owner for years and as such I'm not able to have a public opinion about politics. It's part of the job. This channel is no different. It doesn't matter from which side, anyone who uses any political buzzword or other tribalism "us vs them" language gets immediately banned. I want to bring people together and help. Simple as that. Glad you're here!

[@cdubsb3831]

Others dislike Ginny for the fact she's a girl into cosplay, accusing her of getting into the hobby solely for attention. I dislike Ginny because I find her GM advice without substance or even counter to good GMing habits (she is improving though) I think a good example is the new video where she figures out how to avoid railroading campaigns by designing story beats around reactivity of players rather than planning story arcs, but concludes that such systems of emergent storytelling and design need to always be centered around the party. I reject this because I consider these elements actively participating in the world. I wont force a party to fight bandits pulling a train heist, but that means the bandits won't wait to be stopped by the heroes, leading to new story opportunities.

[@cdubsb3831]

My large gripe with these newcomers is 5e is a comfort zone for them that promises anything. And whenever they have an issue with 5e design or how the system is meant to be run, they don't generally look to other games for answers as much as they will look at homebrews, supplements, and hacks. WotC's marketing encouraged people to learning through mistakes and experimentation, but hides the world of ttrpg opportunities beyond its walls.

[@welovettrpgs]

I didnt want to make this about any single person either way. I only mention her because she's so well known on the platform. And with that comes a lot of responsibility. I sure wouldnt have wanted that responsibility in my first ten years of playing. I don't think Id want it now. I'm just happy for the subscribers I do have and I hope to keep providing knowledge and thopughts from my experiences that are useful. I think my videos tend to appeal to the more intelligent and older experienced gamers. And that makes me happy. I could make an entire youtube career out of things I disagree with from other youtubers but I feel people need to come to that on their own on their own time. Her and Will at Dnd shorts provide the right content for their target audience. Whether they're shaping new players "correctly" or not is out of our hands. The "D&D tourists" arent going to be around long enough for any of that to matter while the long haulers will eventually form their own opinions and style.

[@cdubsb3831]

@@welovettrpgs more than fair, I just think its worth adding in the topic of bullying in the hobby. There's gripes but it's in good faith with gates wide open. There is this perception of Grognards in these rpg spaces as an interchangable group gatekeeping casuals because there definitely ARE those hardcore hipsters, but I do want to see a lot of the new blood stick in the hobby. I want more opportunities to finally bust out some of my campaign books for systems the folks at the game shop scoff at.

[@KenSexe67]

My advice for those who don't like someone on KZbin for any perceived reason: unsubscribe from their channel. I have some issues with some of the KZbinrs mentioned but solely because their content isn't for me. Unsubscribing solves the problem for me, and allows them to provide content for people who benefit from it. Even though KZbin still likes to recommend them to me (which is not their problem, it is mine).

[@welovettrpgs]

Agreed. I've had to block a few of the channels that bother me just so they don't end up in my recommendations.

[@azifukare]

I still love DDO, and made a few good friends playing it, but I let myself get bullied out of it a couple of times now. I still play sometimes, but only solo (12 or 13 past lives on my main now hehehehe), which takes a great deal of the fun out of it. I miss having a group of fun people to play with.. A LOT. (the comment of playing it like it was a job made me lol... SAME) I did join a fun little guild on Neverwinter, but they were mainly on the other side of the world and I can't stay up all night to play when they are online. I have tried to play several other MMOs, but never play with other people all due to how the bullies got to me, so I don't ever get the same level of fun from any of them that I had playing DDO. Come to think of it, I have let people bully me out of D&D itself a time or two as well, but I prefer solitude to drama ANY day.

[@welovettrpgs]

Surround yourself with good people. It is better to be thirsty than to drink poison.

[@jaceg810]

"Don't understand the joy of playing an unbalanced broken game" When it comes to specifically TTRPG's, correct, however I think pathos nethack compared to shattered pixel dungeon does get close. Nethack being a wonderfully, dnd inspired mess of overlapping systems that make no sense, but work nonetheless.

[@dorianleakey]

once again I agree with your message, I do think the channels that cover The TTRPG company that Shall Not Be Named are right to do so, because adding to the public pressure to not behave like villains in an old movie is good. We can be positive ourselves, but wanting a corporation to be positive (not just outwardly) is also good. Then again, literal nazis do the same thing in TTRPG discussion, and frame it similarly.

[@welovettrpgs]

I've lived near WotC since they were founded. I've disliked them since the beginning and for reasons far deeper than some people on KZbin screaming into the void the same old hyperbole and platitudes. As I was saying to my Discord, if I wanted to turn into a WotC drama channel I could corner the market. However , Id hate my channel and Id hate the people who subscribed for wanting that type of content. The low hanging fruit content annoys me. I believe it is better to lift up what we love and ignore the rest. Thanks!

[@dorianleakey]

@@welovettrpgs a good way of viewing it,

[@Froggy711]

Napoleon's grognards got away with criticizing things and saying things that other soldiers couldn't because of their status and experience.

[@welovettrpgs]

Yes! I've thought about discussing that in another video and tying it into "grognard ttrpg wisdom."

[@Kaotiqua]

...am I honestly the ONLY person who just cherry-picks every edition for any rules and "stuff" that I like, and throws the rest on a bonfire of Homebrew? Edition Schmedition. Play what you like. Play HOW you like. (And yes, Aten, at least some of us ARE absolutely jealous that D&D is _cool_ now. But we can be jealous without bullying. :D )

[@welovettrpgs]

haha Thanks! #jealousywins

[@Skeloric]

I arrived into Dungeons and Dragons (BECMI) and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons way back in 1978. By the mid/late 1990s, I ended up in progressively more toxic groups. Around 2007 or so, I quit gaming entirely because of the toxicity in the DnD world. I returned in 2013 with 5e. Only to leave again by 2018. I fled DnD and got into Cypher and Savage Worlds instead. I gave up on trying to redeem DnD.

[@welovettrpgs]

I am interested in Savage Worlds. It's on my list to check out (soon!) and I recently bought Numenera. (I'm already using some 5E Numenera conversions in my D&D campaign) But please don't allow toxic people to ruin a game for you. Not liking a game is one thing and that's valid but don't judge any game based on the people or the company that publishes it "if" that creates a wall preventing you from enjoying a hobby. Thanks!

[@Skeloric]

@@welovettrpgs The toxicity only exacerbated other issues I had been having. I find that the Class/Level progression in DnD is way to complicating a premise for simple plug-n-play style of tabletop gaming I prefer. The Class/Level premise and the resulting obsessive natures which perceive "winning" much differently from myself led to me being forced to to experience increasingly adversarial/antagonistic tables. The very mechanics of the game were cultivating that "you cost me my victory" hostility. I also avoid the "World of Darkness" settings for much the same reason. I really prefer a much more relaxed system that promotes a less antagonistic playerbase overall.

[@adampender2482]

Channels such as Diversity and Dragons could learn a lot from this. I imagine they'll be coming for you soon

[@welovettrpgs]

I used to work in the legal industry and have a reputation for being litigious (ie I push back against bullies, liars, and abusers) and I've beat multiple lawyers in court. I'm currently involved with turning over evidence to the State Bar regarding one bottom feeder ambulance chaser, so "coming after me" is a really bad idea.

[@adampender2482]

@@welovettrpgs I'm surprised they, Diversity and Dragons, hasn't gotten in trouble with KZbin over their behavior and bullying. They ridiculed me and used a lot of foul language about me on a livestream bc I subscribe to a channel they hate. I reported it but alas nothing was done.

[@mitchryan257]

I generally believe in the golden rule, but I get called intolerant for refusing to tolerate the intolerable. It’s hypocritical justification.

[@welovettrpgs]

Check out Karl Popper's thoughts on the matter. No, you should not be tolerant of intolerance. That's what leads to civilization ending movements.

[@mitchryan257]

@@welovettrpgsIt’s too easy to call anyone who disagrees with you, even for sound reasons, “intolerant,” which I would say leads to authoritarianism. Also, who determines what should or should not be tolerated? The people in power, it would appear. If the people in power then determine something isn’t for you, is the only available avenue quiet resignation? Maybe hoping someone doesn’t discover your Speakeasy?

[@welovettrpgs]

@@mitchryan257 There's clearly a difference between disagreement and intolerance. I even stipulated in my video (on a blackboard) that people need to understand the differences. I hate labels and political buzzwords for reasons I've explained many times. It's lazy language that allows people to be angry about things they don't understand. Oh btw - speaking of speakeasy -= I live in a city where I own a small business teaching history. Have I ever got some stories about the underbelly of this place.

[@colinleat8309]

I don't really have anything to add except, agreed 👍. 🖖😁🤘🇨🇦🕊️

[@welovettrpgs]

Thanks buddy!

[@tabletoptaproom]

Amen, preach it. Editions wars suck- play what the hell you like. Why be an ass when you can be a mentor?

[@welovettrpgs]

Thank You!! 100%

[@DMTalesTTRPG]

Nice thoughts.

[@welovettrpgs]

Thanks buddy!

[@philipboardman1357]

I really love and appreciate the spirit behind this message. I would suggest that there's no reason to designate some people as vulnerable or marginal, with the implication that people who are not designated as vulnerable or marginalized, or are not seen that way by others, should not enjoy the same protections against bullying.

[@welovettrpgs]

I can't please everyone. Some people will go out of their way to misunderstand my message. Also, I can't include a text book definition of every word I use or why I use them. Obviously, everyone deserves to be free of bullying. If you read my pinned comment I specifically address the fact that (for example) Ginny Di is a grown woman and can defend herself. I've had to delete and ban so many people from this video it's beyond ridiculous - as well as losing a bunch of subscribers from my use of the word "inclusive" and I go out of my way to not bring politics into my videos so I wish others would stop bringing their political issues to this gaming channel. Thanks.

[@philipboardman1357]

@@welovettrpgs I'm glad we are both keeping politics out of it, and I appreciate that you can't make everyone happy. I just hope you can genuinely take on board the observation that designating some groups as vulnerable, and others as not vulnerable, implies that some should enjoy more protections than others. Sometimes, this is even appropriate, such as the case with children.

[@wolfleclair1399]

This was such a nice video, loved your thoughts on the subject. Thanks for all your hard work and dedication Aten. =^_^=

[@welovettrpgs]

My pleasure! Sometimes I just need to share my thoughts on something that isnt my normal content. I expected hate from this one but it hasnt been as bad as I was preparing myself for.

[@wolfleclair1399]

@@welovettrpgs That's good, you always try to bring positivity and fun to the hobby so it's troubling when you get hate for it. I hope you're having fun. =^_^=

[@welovettrpgs]

@@wolfleclair1399 I'll take much more hate gladly if it means I have wonderful people like yourself with me! Thanks!

[@wolfleclair1399]

@@welovettrpgs You're welcome Aten, it's always a pleasure to drop a good word for you. =^_^=

[@Svartalf14]

5th ed is fine... maybe not the best, that's as per whoever is talking, but it's fine, I like playing it, even if it's the las wotc game I'll ever buy into

[@gkb444]

Thanks!

[@welovettrpgs]

Youre very kind! Thank you very much!

[@Darkwintre]

Her videos have been particularly good. Heard about negative videos, but the most outspoken was because they felt she was being used to help the other look better when it was anything but! Still not clear about that.

[@hodgepodgesyntaxia2112]

Great video.

[@welovettrpgs]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@takanobaierun]

To all the guys being jerks on the internet because there you can hide behind an account: At least have the decency to be jerks to peoples faces in real life too, like I do!

[@welovettrpgs]

lol I always say I hate everyone equally!

[@MrDigitsu]

So I guess the only thing that we need to be intolerant of is intolerance. But that if not careful is a slippery slope, as simple labeling of “intolerance” could easily allow for these people to be discriminated against. For instance if someone states quite firmly that they hate pistachio ice cream, all it takes is a “anti-intolerant” zealot to label this person intolerant of nut flavored ice cream and then they easily become the “bad” kind of intolerant themselves.

[@welovettrpgs]

Heres the wiki on it for further information: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance#:~:text=The%20paradox%20of%20tolerance%20states,practice%20of%20tolerance%20with%20them.