Universal History: Anglo-Saxon Myths and the Origin of Fairies | with Richard Rohlin

[@OldTomato44]

Pageau + Rohlin should be a weekly thing. These discussions are always insanely informative!

[@drewsimon9652]

100%!

[@DaemonLlama]

You can tell they could do about 6 hours in one go if they wanted to. Love it!

[@mitchrivers9737]

My thoughts exactly

[@christineputaranui5579]

Agreed

[@HeadstrongGirl]

Pleeeeeease do more Anglo-Saxon history. This was fascinating.

[@kurzantema]

This was great! Most of the time I watch Johnatan's videos with guests only to listen to his answers, but now I consider you Richard (if you happen to read this) as equaly interesting speaker and it's amazing how you can tie do many different informations into one incredible story! Universal history will now become my favorite series.

[@josephshuffield6113]

Ruth Lehmann in her 1988 translation of Beowulf was (my linguistics prof at Baylor told me) one of the first people to assert strongly that Beowulf was in fact a largely Christian poem with a pagan veneer-and my prof agreed with her assessment. I’m sure the issue may already have had ardent defenders on both sides, but when I encountered this translation shortly after its publication, it seemed at the time the first scholarly edition to bring this idea to a (relatively) wider audience. So this idea has actually been a widely acknowledged possibility for at least 40 years.

[@lostcauselancer333]

Sic ‘em bears

[@stephencook567]

I bought the Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius and wow it is something else. I opened it up and immediately realized I was not intellectually prepared to contemplate what I was reading, but still it is a pretty awesome book.

[@lordofhostsappreciator3075]

>Sees anyother Universal History episode in the sub feed *THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! THAT'S WHY HE'S THE MVP! THAT'S WHY HE'S THE GOAT, THE G-O-A-T*

[@samuelramalheira7237]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[@75dobs]

Jonathan: To use your symbol of a mountain as one’s path from the bottom to the top as a movement from the particular to the universal, I see the role of the faerie, jinn, & the angels (that did not take a sides) to be the accounting for the ambiguous. These phenomena/experiences neither aid in the decent nor the accent of the journey from the particular to the universal, but rather seemingly are ambiguous to the journey. They defy our dual understanding of the world and thus the faerie or jinn represent this experience as confounding, confusing, tricky, or even capricious (without reason). I think this makes sense that in a dual understanding of the universe there would be a hierarchy of three sets of angels not just two. There is Good, Evil, and something in between which we inherently experience as a part of life and spirituality. Riffing here, great podcast series.

[@Jim-Mc]

This was great! I asked for a copy of Tolkien's translation of Beowulf for Christmas. Can't wait to hear the rest.

[@RevTJSmith]

I work as a jail chaplain and when one of the pagan inmates asks for the Eddas, I bring them Tokien"s translation of Beowulf! 🙃

[@AluminiumT6]

@@RevTJSmith That's fire 😂

[@syntheticsleep]

This was absolutely fascinating, and the kind of stuff that I subscribe to this channel for. This is Christianity that I can discuss, whether I practice or "believe" in it or not. I absolutely love it. But the discussions, debates or arguments I find myself in with "Christians" ALWAYS center on this materialist, empirical reading of scripture that's framed by this ridiculous war with modern science. And I've been on BOTH sides of that war, and I simply cannot entertain it anymore. It's content like this that helps me understand the way I look at the world, even if I don't dogmatically or doctrinally agree with everything. Thank you.

[@joer9156]

In terms of fairies, neutral/ambiguous beings etc. it's always worth mentioning St. Anthony's encounter with the centaur and the satyr, the second of which believed in Christ.

[@lordofhostsappreciator3075]

Woah, what?! Really?

[@GGTutor1]

This is the greatest convergence. I love the ideas of Jacques Vallee and his theories of alien encounters/fairies/djinn and some kind of consciousness interacting with us using a kind of dream logic or metalogic. Great to see these concepts being explored here too.

[@user-lk4nj4qg2d]

Hello, I think your comment is very interesting! May I ask if you are an Orthodox Christian? I'm intrigued, since you seem to mention alien encounters as analogous to encounters with fairies and djinns. What I've seen in Orthodox discourse (e.g. Fr. Seraphim Rose, Fr. Spyridon Bailey) is that alien encounters are interpreted as demonic apparitions. Is there a reason you assume them to be actually inherently neutral, rather than demonic? I am vaguely familiar with Jaques Vallée's views from summaries which I've read online, but I have not read his books. Thank you for your time and best regards!

[@GGTutor1]

@@user-lk4nj4qg2d Your question is too big to answer in a KZbin comment. Firstly, I am not an Orthodox Christian, no. I do not know if these entities are demonic and we would have to first identify what that means. As with all interesting discussions, most of the time is spent agreeing our definitions and there is no space to do that here. After researching the topic for a number of years though, I come to the conclusion that these entities are not truly physical, they exist in a grey area between matter and consciousness and can flit between the two. They also seem to bring both good and bad to those that encounter them and are usually mischievous in nature. Fairy tales provide the essence of what are real encounters in which the individual is tested in some way. Depending on how the individual responds, they may appear as what you might call demons and terrorise and mislead the person, but equally they can refocus a person with them focussing on more spiritual matters. I believe that these beings act as a mirror for the soul and the visitation often has deeply symbolic meaning for the soul. What the individual takes from the encounter depends on them rather than the beings themselves. I don't know if this answers the question. Is it possible that some of these beings are demonic and evil? Yes, but I am not sure if it is intrinsic to them or it is, much like a dream, a projection or mirror that has clear implications for the individual who experiences it/them. I don't think the encounters are meant for anyone other than those who have them as they entwined with that particular consciousness. If one of these beings appeared in front of us, what we experienced would be different. This is often the case when you look into these encounters closely, everyone saw something slightly different and the message was directed at them personally in some way. I have said enough.

[@user-lk4nj4qg2d]

@@GGTutor1 Thank you for the extensive answer! I appreciate it!

[@jJust_NO_]

this is true.. they live in the young minds of children. its not outside of us but interwoven in the fabric of our psyche. once tapped and personified, the mind becomes humorous and childlike

[@Epicrandomness1111]

Love the Old English tales we have, being covered, they're greatly neglected here in England.

[@Xanaseb]

Totally agreed! Tolkien would be ashamed of us

[@jJust_NO_]

recently during pandemic period, my mother told me that when i was still too young and didnt know how to talk yet, i used to look out of the window, stayed there for minutes on end, and would laugh. she said, i would just blurt out words like fairies, and say in our native language, 'tao' meaning 'im seeing people' which my mother couldnt see. this used to scare the hell out of her because our place was still so untouched by civilization. but i couldnt remember this memory. im 34 now and if she didnt mention it, i wouldnt have known. whats more interesting to note about the authenticity of the story is because there wasnt any electricity yet in our place nor a colored television or even books whence i might have gotten the information if it had been derived from outside stimulus. so...

[@donjohnson6036]

Love your discussions of ancient/universal history. Fascinating and informative, with a very good conversational chemistry.

[@josephtravers777]

Love these interviews w/ Richard! He has a wealth of information concerning esoteric history. 👍

[@PaulVanderKlay]

Wow this was a crazy, amazing video. Now I can't wait until the next episode! Super, super helpful. Yes, a lot of people say "You need to talk to Richard" which I'm sure will happen at some point, but for me it's like a 12 year old being faced with a brothel. I don't know where to begin and I know that I'm hopelessly outclassed. :)

[@kbeetles]

You'd better not start anywhere with a brothel, Paul.....

[@gabrielgboucher6546]

Have you been To a brothel Paul ? XD

[@ordersoahc]

@PaulVanderKlay I talked to @RichardRohlin in Oct and he said he’d love to talk to his favorite Calvinist. I told him I’d keep bugging you both until it happens

[@panokostouros7609]

Can't wait for the Native American episodes of this series

[@tara_artist]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE YES! A FOCUS on BEOWULF! And soon! I am about to write a play for grade 7 students on Beowolf and want to get at this history! So much GRADITUDE for this! Thank you! ❤

[@north6417]

Thank you both for this, and thank you Jonathan Pageau for this channel. I've learned a lot from this channel

[@mondopinion3777]

George MacDonald, whom both C.S.Lewis and Tolkien claimed as mentor, wrote of faeries as being quite real. He said some of them are more Christian than people are.

[@SweetImmaculateHeart]

Universal History series is my favorite. Keep it coming!

[@deanima9943]

I love this series and this is by far my favorite! I cannot wait for the Beowulf video. Thanks for all of your great work!

[@greggeverman5578]

Rohlin is a great guest! Thanks for an amazing informative video, Jonathan!

[@manfredham]

These Podcasts should be reheld live and without constraints on time. Epic stuff.

[@cyndibee2289]

Your talks with Richard are the most interesting and my favorites.

[@localuser190]

The neutral angels are also in the Voyage of St Brendan.

[@stuckmannen3876]

Solid video! Could you do a video on the Sagas or scandinavian folklore? 👍🏻

[@solarascetic6316]

I'm curious if either of you are familiar with the YT channel "Survive the Jive"? He does a lot of stuff on Anglo-Saxon mythology and paganism and I think a lot of the "Universal History" stuff would be a good fit for a discussion.

[@M-i-k-a-e-l]

"Fairies are real you gotta believe me" - Ozzy

[@nickoftime5759]

And they wear boots 😊

[@suzannahjames5264]

@@nickoftime5759 wellybobs

[@Ac-ip5hd]

Son, son you’ve gone too far.

[@jasonscholl2945]

"I saw it I saw it I tell ya no lies. Yeah fairies wear boots and ya gotta believe me. Yeaaaahhhh" "So I went to the doctor see what he could give me, he said son son you've gone too far. Cause smokin and drinking is all that you do. Yeaaaaahhhhh"

[@jasonscholl2945]

@@raven5875 song: Fairies Wear Boots. Album: Paranoid.

[@gertrudisd1333]

Ooooh I can’t wait. You two should do a multi video read through of Tolkien’s translation of Beowulf.

[@stuckmannen3876]

Great episode! Its difficult to contain my exitement when listening you guys talk... anyway... im Looking forward to your episode on the viking-age! Greetings from Norway! 🇳🇴☦️ God bless!

[@mihaelamarinoiu5181]

Excellent! I can't wait for the next episodes.

[@peripheralarbor]

Cool to hear a bit more about Alfred! He's my 33rd great grandfather!

[@Sean-oh3ph]

Every European from before the year 1000 whose line of descent has continued to today is the ancestor of everyone with European heritage who is living today. Pretty cool!

[@clairejones1113]

That doesn’t make any sense. Example: Iceland was settled around year 870 and stayed mostly genetically isolated. They are not the ancestors of the modern Greeks.

[@dominicmdesouza]

this was utterly awesome. total mind candy...

[@justachannel8600]

This is gonna be interesting.

[@SuperVanillacoke]

I'm a simple man, I see Universal History, I click.

[@AD-en5dq]

I love lots of these I really want to understand the anthropological origins of humanity

[@janethorsman194]

Yay! I’ve missed these.

[@ShowMeMoviesInc.]

Definitely my favorite work on Pagaues channel besides the fairy tales

[@daveperryman291]

Thank you for that brief cruise down the Withywindle.

[@ficklebar]

Hi Jonathan! I had a strange realization today that I thought might be of interest to you: Why is it that gamers spend so much time and money building their perfect gaming PCs? Why do they spend literally thousands of dollars on components far more capable than any game could ever utilize, and days of their time researching and perfecting every last detail? Because a PC is a temple. You put everything in it's place, then it becomes beautiful and perfect. Then you use it commune with "heaven," or the world of ideas and abstract thought, aka the internet. I just thought those two things together were particularly uncanny, so I thought I'd mention it to you. Perhaps there is more uncanniness to discover? Hope you are well! EDIT: perhaps there's a tie-in with car and motorcycle enthusiasts...

[@notaboutit3565]

I agree as both a tech (gaming, software engineering, hardware engineering) enthusiast and a car enthusiast. They’re certainly temple-esque and everything that comes with that, in other words, they’re built to be participated in/with, they’re outlets of participation in other temple/spiritual-esque activities. But uncanny as it may seem, I don’t think this should be in any way a surprising conclusion

[@ficklebar]

@@notaboutit3565 Indeed! I think what’s uncanny is how the PC has transformed into such a thing, with no one giving it a second thought. “Of course he treats his PC like a temple!” It’s just human nature, in a way so profound we don’t even see it.

[@notaboutit3565]

@@ficklebar absolutely

[@Baiyu83]

I think Jackson Crowford would be interested to watch a video about the Beowulf :)

[@z.z4862]

Dear Santa, all I ask for this Christmas is a reading list form Richard Rohlin. Please 🙏

[@PaulVanderKlay]

My favorite Pageauian Series!

[@theodoremalone635]

What’s the spelling of the Irish Book containing the origin of Faeries?

[@e.j.3335]

Saltair na Rann

[@a1cRobertson]

HALLELUJAH! More Universal History!

[@SaraH-te9vb]

I love Beowulf so much! Please do a talk about it!

[@aaronh8095]

I would be very interested to hear Pageau’s thoughts on Paul Kingsnorth’s short story “The Basilisk.” I think it would relate to this conversation.

[@johnmattison1209]

Amazing how this drops right when I start watching the last kingdom on Netflix

[@clintd3476]

I’d love for Richard to interact with Jamie from the British History Podcast (haven’t listened to it in quite a while).

[@jl4571]

Related to the Beowulf talk I'd just like to recommend people read John Gardner's Grendel.

[@AnaBrigidaGomez]

Looking forward to Beowulf, that would be a blast for sure.

[@lewsolo5404]

great chat!

[@lalarsen11]

Theoretically, couldn't a lower-level angel (or positive principality) also be seen as "neutral?" After all, so long as the angel is doing its job and pointing humans to God, isn't that being fulfilling its role? Who's to say you couldn't reduce the rank or job title of an angel low enough to the point where it would act as something like a fairy?

[@e.j.3335]

Is the the apocrypha of anglo saxon homiletic tradition book you were discussing the ‘Preaching Apocrypha in Anglo-Saxon England’ by Brandon W. Hawk?

[@neyneynanamo2071]

Hmm, from my study on the tradition of the flood I have found a better explanation that also expends with a great explanation into the origin of the different races, I have found that that 4th son was not Noah`s directly but he was the son of Ham. And by the way of things worked he was also called the son of Noah just like many generations were called sons of Cain(or sons of man, referring to Cain). reference: - Evolution to Creator - Prof. Dr. Ing. Gheorghe Sandu ( later known as Father/Monk Grigorie) and Hexameron- St. Vasilis the Great

[@neyneynanamo2071]

I could try to explain better here what I mean but it would be a long explanation that I am not sure can be very well accepted by a modern general audience that does not have a relative understanding of the context of the history so I will not go further into this here but I encourage people to look into it. This 4th son connects so much about everything. From the greek gods to how the different races left to populate the world after the tower of Babel events.

[@dwright4u7]

I need advice, please.. I feel a pull to pursue the life of a Saint. I'm 36 with a rollercoaster life story and don't feel worthy to be a Saint, but my Spidey senses have been tingling to figure out my place in the vertical structure of reality and what that looks like on the horizontal level. I'm pretty sure my life is aligning with the Daniel archetype. Both the Prophet and the Saints. If you understand what I'm experiencing, can you help guide me, please? 🙏

[@dwright4u7]

@William Braddell No offense, but it sounds like you are projecting fear of pride onto me by assuming it's a goal for me to be a Saint. I said I feel a pull to pursue the life of a Saint.. Also, I mentioned I don't feel worthy of that life anyway. It's interesting that you chose this moment to lecture instead of helping to lift me up. Thanks for the warning, tho..

[@animula6908]

@William Braddell everything I’ve learned from religious leaders encourages us all to believe we are capable of becoming saints, and as it means just achieving the life God wants us all to have, it’s not a prideful pursuit at all. One of the virtues you have to be willing to learn and live is humility, so you’re thinking of it wrong if you think of it as something Christians shouldn’t pray for and work toward daily. It’s an attainable goal even for sinners, but it involves more trust in God and willingness to sacrifice than most start out willing to display. It’s only little by little that most people come to see the value of what God wants for us. Fr Columba isn’t orthodox, he’s Roman, but he offers some great advice on how to strive toward this worthy goal, little by little.

[@LethalDragon1]

What is the best translation of Beowulf to read?

[@ruslpit2615]

I’m so dumb to underestimate you at the beginning of every video you do even though you just crush it! When will I learn?

[@PilgrimMission]

Great talk thank you.

[@agiantsnail]

#hyped

[@littlemouse7066]

but are there nordic texts from before the nordic people conversion to christianity?

[@cosmicdancer6169]

Interesting talk!

[@biffkline8771]

Looking forward to seeing these guys confirmed for LoScon next year. (🤞)

[@Xanaseb]

LoScon?

[@ethanb2554]

42:53 Mind blown! And makes a lot of sense!

[@johndale1694]

Wow 😳😲 They sent him back 😊 Classic I like it I don't know much more But I like it Guys

[@beowulf.reborn]

Please share the homilies of St Isaac the Syrian that deal with the old gods, and intermediate spirits that are "neutral".

[@johnjoyce8518]

How do you spell the name of the Irish Psalter that Richard is talking about??

[@muadek]

Fanastic! So informative!

[@stevenyoung3752]

Well done, this was great

[@a2wingedeagle]

Does anyone know which homily of St. Isaac the Syrian Richard was referencing? I'd like to check it out.

[@demetriosstratis321]

I am hyped!

[@robertbdavisii9801]

Alright so because we all know that the Symbolic World is the same as The Lord of Spirits, and that the Lord of Spirits is the same as Amon Sul, therefore this is the Amon Sul podcast, I have a Tolkien question (probably mostly unanswerable): In his early writings found in the Lost Tales, Tolkien takes a hilariously Tolkienian jab at the Irish by saying that they have no true fairy tales, only the English do. Obviously this didn't make it into his later writings because there was no place for it once middle earth was made almost wholly separate from our world. But given what was said about the Irish preserving Apocryphal traditions, and being earlier to the true faith than the Anglo-Saxons, I wonder if a) this was well known in Tolkien's time as a scholar, and if so b) did he change his opinion on the Irish during his life and were these facts part of that change? Though I suppose you could see it the other way where the Anglo-Saxons have the true, liminal stories for the very fact that they held onto the liminal and pagan for longer... The world may never know, but I wonder...

[@nickoftime5759]

Can’t believe you guys spent almost an hour on this and never even mentioned Tolkien 😆

[@Xanaseb]

They do in previous episode(s) I believe

[@giannobong6778]

Someone please share where St Isaac the Syrian talks about the old gods and other things like that- I could not find anything

[@KageMinowara]

13:39 Here Mr. Rohlin mentions an Irish book of universal history that's called something like the Saltair Narain. Does anyone know about this book and how to spell the title properly? I've tried searching Saltair Narain in google but I don't get anything.

[@RevTJSmith]

My five minute Google search yields nothing close to a psalter/psaltair with a name like that... Though I did learn that there is a Cashel psaltair which is the town in Tipperary where my father's people are from!

[@callunaherissonne662]

It's the Saltair na Rann.

[@KageMinowara]

@@callunaherissonne662 Ah, wonderful! thank you.

[@johndale1694]

He paused. 🤔 Didn't remove Is that what he did To connect Emphasize

[@DerekJFiedler]

So cool

[@lausdeo4944]

YES!!!

[@adamschaafsma5839]

Most people never talk about it but Nephilim is a transliteration, the translation of that word means "Fallen Ones". This is a twist on what a lot of people think because the Nephilim are not the offspring but are the angels themselves. There is almost nothing explicit about the offspring themselves.

[@johndale1694]

You will matter Matter will like you The matter in your being What it's wants

[@logoimotions]

Gaelic people are Irish Scottish and Manx. Romans never got to most these parts

[@jamesmcclaren9759]

I always wondered how communication was handled when it came to guiding the animals to the ark…

[@ShowMeMoviesInc.]

The book the mothman prophecies really are about fairy folk but for the modern day

[@feliciaowusu9503]

Hi Jonathan, This is unrelated to this video but some of your die-hard fans in Africa would like to request a big favor regarding the God's Dog comic. Can you make a digital version we can pay the $30 to download? Buying the physical copy with shipping costs all together approach $200. To check duplication/proliferation perhaps check the geolocation of the buyer?🙏

[@bettyadamsoveranalyzes]

WAIT! When you say you are Richard are doing something on "The Golden Key" do you mean MacDonald's "The Golden Key?"

[@johndale1694]

Soo interesting

[@johndale1694]

By the way Important.. Importance of you Just be Who you meant to be

[@tcritchfeld481]

And I just bought another book

[@johndale1694]

Grendel Grendal 🤔 Who I heard 🤔 Rosey stone ❤️ 🤔 Rosetta .........

[@johndale1694]

Wow 😳 Interesting Guy

[@jennytr5056]

Yes! Do Beowulf!!!

[@repentantrevenant9776]

On Julian the Apostate’s criticisms being “very Protestant”: I highly recommend the channel “Truth Unites” with Gavin Ortlund to correct these kinds of typical Protestant caricatures. Protestants affirm the title of “Theotokos” for Mary. To not call Mary the “Mother of God” would be to split Christ’s divine and human nature. Protestants may be hesitant to use the term because its meaning could be misconstrued, especially in light of how far other traditions’ veneration of Mary has gone. But they have affirmed the title since Luther.

[@lordofhostsappreciator3075]

Typical Ortlund damage control

[@peterv7258]

One very important, though perhaps unanswerable, question is whether or not the supposed phenomenon of Fairies, in all of their complex array, are only some kinds of mythologized cultural meme or misrepresented telling of some kind of experience of other tribes or cultures or whatnot, or if they are indeed some actually supernatural experience or entities which are not accounted in either orthodox Christianity or orthodox science. Or the other possibility which is that they are made from whole cloth. Another interesting question is to what extent, if any, these apocryphal stories actually contain bits of actual history of any sort or are they also purely fictions created for who knows what intentions. Certainly, there are those among us who regard them as truer than what is known to be true and think all manner of convoluted conspiracies about angels and demons and hidden secrets and so forth, often intersecting with notions which are racist, and every other uncharitable disorder.

[@pontification7891]

This stuff is the best!!…

[@leopoldjenkins]

Given the outsized influence on Anglo Saxon culture on what became England, then Britain, then the Anglosphere, it's staggering there isn't more attention paid to it. Great great talk.

[@daNihilism]

Interesting edit at 23:00... I wonder why.

[@christopherjordan9707]

Verboten

[@QuixEnd]

At 50:45 you guys mention principalities having a limit on lying. What blows me away is that some of the most blatantly evil/anti-human anti-God philosophies ive studied are also not deceptive or break rules of logic. The reader knows exactly whats going on and chooses to believe its premises.

[@binra3788]

Plasma physics met Velikovsky's Catastrophism for Mankind in Amnesia to become not just Electric Universe but a recognition of celestial & terrestrial experience that was not mere 'imprinted' but cast out as a Projection of fragmentation or Separation trauma. Symbology is thus the matrix of 'meanings' derived from a process of self-differentiation. The trace is obscured by the lack of current cosmic alignments or events that correlate to experience rendered in mythic consciousness, to a trained rationally based mapping of a world set as objects bound to laws revealed by maths as if Man's discovery of reality at last! But also that our self and world-view are two facet of one focus that is rarely able to discern the underlying meaning of a consciousness priory to our tower of structural assumptions through which we 'make sense' of our self/world. But then perhaps even more obfuscation is the reworking of mythic motifs after their original correspondence passed, as esoteric, authority conferring and literary devices that also cross cultures as well as mutating within their own shifting context of usage. However, the contention here is that there was a global experience throughout what we call prehistory and not a cross cultural seeding (only) or a psychological archetype (only). But patterns of conditioning will run as default until the conditioning is brought to awareness as a new 'habit' of consistent choice. But our true archetype is simply God, even if our partial and inverted experience of being is 'through a glass darkly'. The assignment of good and evil cannot apply to Creation Itself, but through the eyes/minds of the taking of the fruit of judgement in vain - that is to a private sense of 'creation' maintained by mutually reinforced beliefs or definitions. But the accepting of the choice to judge in our own light, has a Promethean undercurrent or mis-taken inheritance of taking the Eternally Immeasurable into the realm of Man as the measure of all things (cue the Ancient of Days as the drawing of divisions - for which there is also an historic patterning that was emulated - for our early works emulated event or experience of overwhelming significance). In symbolic terms the divine consorted with the realm of imaged form to a confusion of the levels. This is not so different from 'falling into thought streams' rather than beholding or embracing them, and not so different from Narcissus falling into self-imaged fascination - as distinct from the release of self-image to a consciousness of Covenant or Communion, in which the self and world made by a sense of self-lack driven externality, is exchanged for a way of re integrative healing to the world of true inherence in God - in which separate states fall away as artefacts of a false or mistaken 'father'. the last point of obfuscation perhaps is of the reversal, for the decision to cast out AS IF TO GET RID OF, or judgement of good and evil, gave denial and received in like measure - not that God left us, but that in giving unlike God, we set the experience of separation that drove the development of abilities for substitution and survival of a persistence of self-illusion set in complex & ingenious defences. So to project our own masked or denied thought/intent onto our image or symbol of God and Brother and by our grievance embodied say "This is what you made me", as the escape from an otherwise intolerable guilt, or self-hate that splits the mind we made to conflict that blocks awareness of the truth God created whole and free in image and likeness the same but that we do not create our self. In concept or in symbol we may play with toys, by which to gratify, stimulate and frighten ourselves, but comes a time to put away childish things, and accept the last judgement, for ' This is My Beloved Who Is My Delight'. In A Course in Miracles - is stated that The Separation occurred over millions of years, and that many Souls and Angels attempted to heal the separated ones but became entangled thereby - for every help was turned to a weapon of defence against Help by denial. However the premise of the Miracle is Creation in love, that can be refused but never truly lost, and so abides in trust waiting on welcome as the Gift of recognition that the impossible never truly occurred. But while we self-set in a gift of 'private' experience, we take the ride as if the light of the Projector could become the images on Plato's cave.

[@Xanaseb]

Well done for receiving the prize for greatest waste of time comment. This garbled stream sounds almost like it could have been generated by an AI...! How can you come so close to the truth and yet be so far from it? Electric Universe - a brilliant and promising scientific model. Not a cause to follow New Age nonsense like Course of/in Miracles. And I have someone very dear to me who is a devotee of Course in Miracles. It has done immense psychotic harm to him, and he has a huge complex against traditional Christianity. May God bless you and keep you and may His face shine upon you - that your eyes may open and your heart warm to Christ as the Via, Veritas & Vita

[@peterv7258]

Wow. From now on, if people around me resort to violence over some conflict, I am going to intercede with the remark-"whatever your dispute, it's not as important as the dating of Beowulf." okay, no. I am not going to do that. But I wish I could.

[@skadiwarrior2053]

Worth a try.

[@deepstrasz]

There are definitely many similarities between myths of the world/peoples. Fairies are not necessarily inspired by the angels or jinns but rather by things like the dryads, nymphs and what other such spirits and fantastical entities the Greeks believed in. However, one should be careful drawing conclusions that they are all coming from one primordial myth. It might be so in the short run but in the long run they have developed quite differently. People spread across the globe quite far before developing these intellectual symbolic views.