Universal History: The Surprising Irish Origin of Purgatory - with Richard Rohlin

[@JonathanPageau]

Remember to like and share. And don't miss my and Richard's new course on Dante's Purgatorio, starting August 27th. Involved patrons get a 10% discount. Your unique code is at the top of the course page if you log in. Apply at checkout. thesymbolicworld.com/courses/dantes-purgatorio

[@NelyNel0712]

Saw Irish on the title of this video and since you’re Christian I immediately thought of another but more unconventional Christian, if you will. Peter Rollins. The both think similarly and it would be great to see the both of you engage in Christian thought.

[@NelyNel0712]

He’s a Christian philosopher

[@dwright4u7]

Way to poke the bee hive with this one, Jonathan...

[@anya7014]

will we need to take the Inferno class before the Purgatory one? or can we take this new class without taking the previous one?

[@SaxoGrammatic]

I listened to this episode while in the dentist's chair. With all the talk of pain, suffering, and hooks, it seemed fitting.

[@ButterBobBriggs]

"Reading the Psalms like a conversation between the Father and the Son" - Richard Rholin

[@OrthoBro7516]

This is what I like about the Orthodox study bible.. it shows this pattern through every Psalm

[@pmpodge]

Irish Catholic here. Please do more of these videos, brilliant to find out about the True lore of my homeland. God bless.

[@sigurdholbarki8268]

Me too, but I'm Northern English Anglican! I, like St Bede, hold the Irish who brought my ancestors into the light of Christ in very high regard! Glory to God, and God save Ireland! ✝️🇬🇧🇮🇪

[@mitchrivers9737]

Finally a proper length episode worthy of the subject! More of these longer ones please, they feel so much less rushed

[@Stadtpark90]

The universal history series gets me excited every time. Richard Rohlin is a gem. Can’t wait to watch this. 9:26 the task of culture is dealing with young males 14:58 oral traditions trump the written law; bards; the irony that what’s written survives (Plato, Moses, Paul) 20:09 Irish Bards and the Syrian Church Fathers: a lyrical approach to memory; crazy poetry - don’t try to get dogma out of reading the Psalms 24:10 magical realism in the life of Irish saints: the magic is not the big deal about it: things that happen 28:11 celebrating on the back of Leviathan 34:16 Deprivation brings about Miracles: if you have nothing, you live out of the grace of God anyway 37:33 Purgatory; actually more pre-text 45:51 Purgatory

[@Dogheadedchris]

Catholic here - I thought you guys did an excellent job with purgatory. A lot of the popular imagination over time has consisted of useful though unofficial descriptions. The official teaching on purgatory is super light weight. (I really don’t think it’s much different from Orthodox concept.)

[@mrjustadude1]

The west, in large part, can thank the east for this IMO. Despite the fact that the attempts at union ultimately failed, the western bishops were forced to tone down the official teachings on purgatory to the point where many of the Eastern Bishops could accept, or almost accept them. That's how you end up with such a toned-down version of the doctrine in official Catholic Councils.

[@Dogheadedchris]

@@mrjustadude1 interesting - could you provide some references for this? I’m interested in learning more

[@liamcroatt171]

Eastern Catholic, here, and yes, your conception of purgatory is quite different from our perspective about toll houses. Probably, the truth is somewhere in the middle, and also probably laughing at what we thought was true about it in other ways.

[@Dogheadedchris]

@@liamcroatt171 why is it quite different? Help me understand the gap. I’ve talked to orthodox a bit about this and my simple brain can’t identify the fine distinctions.

[@liamcroatt171]

@@Dogheadedchris A few things. The toll houses are seen through a different philosophical framework than purgatory. I think the one given for purgatory here in the video is actually quite accurate. Toll houses, however, are seen as a series of specific tests and trials put upon you by demons, each toll house purifying you until you reach heaven. I think of this, rather than a continuation of the purification you already have been undergoing with a newly fixed will, as a gradual transition of the human person from being the figure of Cain to the figure of Abel. Indeed, Cain was being tested, just as we will be in the toll houses, to help make him more like Abel. Purgatory is not so much testing as much as it is raw, unfiltered purification. But most importantly, the toll houses are allegorical in nature, and purgatory, most certainly, is not. Purgatory is the product of a western emphasis on cataphatic theology, the emphasis on what is, what can be known, and toll houses are the product of what isn't, what can't be known. Therefore, they've often been treated as allegorical frameworks more than literal interpretations. It's also worth noting that the Eastern Catholics do have as Catholics an emphasis on judgment immediate upon death that the Orthodox do not, and so toll houses are not necessarily quite as emphasized in Eastern Catholic circles as they might be in orthodox ones, but this is still the framework through which I understand the afterlife.

[@healthydee381]

Loved this talk. We are not taught this stuff in Ireland. This aspect of history has been conveniently suppressed imo.

[@O3177O]

We were , its not taught, on purpose, in these woke times

[@johndanielharold3633]

Things started to change in the 80´s. A changeling nation.

[@drts6955]

​@@johndanielharold3633yeah we stopped allowing priests to abuse kds with impunity. So sad we've left those times behind

[@sigurdholbarki8268]

​@@drts6955Okay, I'm not a Roman Catholic, but I am getting fed up with this. Firstly, abuse within the church is (and was) statistically lower than in secular institutions. That is based on the standard measure of instances per 100,000. Secondly, the instances were typically intra-sex. Now, that poses some interesting safeguarding issues that secular critics of the church seem oddly quiet about. Perhaps the church should have screened priests for same-sex attraction? Should we extend that to secular institutions as well? Crickets from the hypocrites. Thirdly, what about the institutional cover-ups of sex crimes committed over the last few decades, which numerically dwarf those of the church: Rochdale, UK; the Hollywood casting couch which ruined people like Corey Haime; Epstein Island? Until those are addressed I don't want to hear another word from Secular types, and I certainly don't want to hear Protestants parroting atheist propaganda at Roman Catholics. I'm an Anglican btw and I have very strong views about what should happen to people who harm the little ones.

[@Art2GoCanada]

Thanks that was awesome, tying Ireland to purgatory is especially symbolic during today's migrant invasion 😢

[@drts6955]

Arra iaigh do chlab a chladhaire

[@thomasabraham3345]

Please also do symbolism of India! I’m a Syro-Malabar Catholic and I got very excited when you mentioned Syrian Christianity. I’ve been confused about India, because it’s weird symbolically, and I’d be very excited to see you guys cover it

[@beskow749]

Have you watched their series on Ethiopia?

[@ALLHEART_]

India and Ethiopia were the same place in the medieval mind. They covered this in the Ethiopia series. Shared symbolism.

[@laurenjones3184]

I’m also interested in Christianity in India. I’ve been to one of the churches in kerala which are said to date back to St Thomas in 52ce.

[@vimalpatel4060]

Well, at least in the Bible. Look at the stories of the queen of Sheba, and then do what this comment section suggests, look at the Ethiopian epi.. Oh! And I am also from here, where in India?

[@thomasabraham3345]

@@beskow749 I did, there is mention of India biblically, but I mean more to dive into the Indian stories specifically and the history of those people. The symbolic space they occupy is very similar, but they're still different places and have different stories, if you know what I mean

[@zenuno6936]

Its the traditional view - Gregory of Nyssa "after his departure out of the body, he gains knowledge of the difference between virtue and vice and finds that he is not able to partake of divinity until he has been purged of the filthy contagion in his soul by the purifying fire” (Sermon on the Dead [A.D. 382]). Mark of Ephesus believed the principle, just not the literal fire, he said it was worse than fire. Nowadays no one would say there's a literal fire.

[@IvanSpaziano-ko5cv]

That's a problematic point for us, cause we've a body that feels pleasures, but inside we already burn, in this life, and yes we already could experience that, there are different types of fires through our vices or sin. The soul remain bold and cold, but during the act of sin, we could feel the fire inside and there's a great difference between sins and the type of fire that we could feel. If I stole a candy from a child, in a stupid little act i taste a little one, but if I fall in anger and desperation against one in front of me, that fire is clearly more intense

[@j.g.4942]

Isn't that the same as the Eucharist, as Christ consumes us incorporating the Good and cutting off (forgiving) the bad (like Isaiah)?

[@donaldeeney]

One of the most important literary works to emerge from Irish monasticism is the novel Fis Adomnan or the Vision of Adomnan. It predates Dante's Inferno by several hundred years and relates the dream like experience of Adomnan (abbot of Iona) as his Spirit travels through the heavens and visits the various stages of hell, purgatory and heavenly realms. This novel was written in early Irish or Gaelic language and is a first in vernacular language literature in Europe.

[@troyhavok8605]

The difference between whether the suffering caused by sin results in purgation or torment is expressed by the two thieves on Golgotha. You don’t get to choose whether or not to hang on the cross. You only get to choose which thief we’re going to be.

[@candleinthewind194x]

I love the depiction of hell and purgatory in The Great Divorce. Lewis reconciles torment and purgation in a way that made the concept clear, without worrying about physical discomfort. The pain of conversion, making the Son the center rather than the self, is enough without furnaces and hooks.

[@russellhoward3866]

I bought that book "How the Irish Saved Civilization" for my grandmother twenty years ago (but I read it before giving it to her).

[@PaulVanderKlay]

Oh wow, this one is rich with good stuff!

[@NornIronMan.]

Our friend Marcas from More Christ has just gotten a job at St Patrick's Purgatory. Looking forward to us hopefully bringing the Estuary group there at some point God willing. Apparently the stained glass in the church is something to behold.

[@zaxehammer]

Re: Lyrical Approach I believe this is similar to the way the Greek mythoi were told. Before "Homer" wrote down the poems, the person reciting would rely upon many common phrases: e.g. "cow-eyed Hera" or "Swift-footed Achilles". These have specific cadences, which allows the poet to have rhythmic themes for characters (which probably helps with the memory aspect too).

[@paulr5246]

I like the way we can use History to explain things on a more neutral ground, and draw appropriate comparisons, realizing the utility of what we might call metaphor in a Historical context.

[@BrodyAleksander-YOB]

Woe unto him who gets praised my men right.... so Ill just say thank you Jonathan and Richard.

[@adutchman1403]

Thanks for the video guys!

[@Thomas-culture-show]

While, y’all are playing with Irish symbolism I would love to know what y’all think about the Irish Wolfwalkers. Because Ireland is one of the few places that thinks of werewolves as good and helpful creatures that protect. I’d love to know why y’all think they did that

[@JonCrs10]

Also Song of the Sea and Secret of Kells. All 3 go together in representing that Irish Irishness with the magical and the sacred.

[@russellhoward3866]

​@JonCrs10 Local library by my job had all 3 on dvd!

[@russellhoward3866]

​@@JonCrs10 Which one was your favorite?

[@MrChristianDT]

The entire idea of a Werewolf may have originated from berserkers & other similar types of elite warriors in ancient Europe who are marked with wearing animal skins of animals they claim to have personally take the power from, crossed with the idea of magic skins that literally cause you to become the animal, itself- similar to a Selkie. The monster aspect came later. I've also heard of the Scottish Wulvers, which sounds German, & might be related in some way to elves. They could shapeshift into animals & some variants in European folklore have ones that are stuck partway in between a shapeshift into animals, so that might be where those came from, too?

[@russellhoward3866]

​@MrChristianDT Fr. Stephen DeYoung talks about werewolves in one of the Lord of Spirits Halloween episodes. A guy ate an infant alive to get wolf powers during the first Olympics.

[@notloki3377]

really interesting stuff. thanks for sharing.

[@kristenswensen6451]

The book of Daniel is a major mind blower - if you try to approach it as if you've never read or heard any of these stories

[@john-maryknight2012]

My patron Saint, Francis of Paula, is said to have raised a cooked fish from the dead. I think he also called a lamb out of a fire.

[@kaloarepo288]

He is supposed to have walked across the straights of Messina and this is depicted in a piece of very virtuosic piano music by great Hungarian composer Franz Liszt in his "Legends" series which also includes St Francis of Assisi talking to the birds. Liszt himself became a Catholic priest in later life and lived at the spectacular Villa D'Este in Tivoli just outside Rome - the Villa with hundreds of fountains and water jets in the gardens.

[@mojophe1617]

Irish monastism has its roots in what was known as The Desert Fathers.

[@allandidonato]

Miracles involving the resurrection of animals and multiplication of food can be found in Irish traditions regarding the Dagda. He kept two wondrous pigs that took turn being cooked and eaten, while his cauldron produced food sufficient for any number of hungry people.

[@AnneE.S.Fjellstad]

Interesting talk and historic background.

[@neilmoore4418]

Just coming to this series through this episode. And excited to go back and listen to others. Listening to St Bridget of Sweden’s descriptions of purgatory, I couldn’t help but connect it to the growing obsession with horrific torture imagery in films nowadays. I wonder if either of you have thoughts on the role that purgatory played historically as an outlet for exploring horror in the culture’s imagination while remaining firmly planted inside the Church? In St Bridget’s time the horrors were at least teleologically oriented toward future righteousness. Horror today is celebrated for its own sake divorced from purpose or hope.

[@ToTheStumblBloc]

I remember a time when I was in grade 5 (so I was around 9 years old) we were meant to do a 5 min speech presentation on a topic of our choosing. I chose implements of torture. As a 9 year old in a Catholic school, this was subsequently denied by the teacher (I think I did my subsequent presentation on the Hindenburg disaster but the memory is unclear). I remember seeing images on the internet that compelled me to choose that topic, I had to get it out, I had to discuss it. There was no safe search for me, I was born in 1994 and had complete access to the newfangled world of the internet and had parents who had no clue what hells lay amist. Images the like of which Richard described about those in purgatory brought my mind back to this moment. The education I had experienced until then was all about coasting upon the simplicity of an easily rendered system. And then the internet deleted the system entirely and made me ambivalent towards the realities of purgatory and attention. It removed the Fear of God and put in it's place the Fear of the Stranger. Thank you for another insightful conversation. I hope with His help I will be purified in my Sin.

[@m.filmtrip]

This talk made me wonder how developing and meditating on these elaborate forms of torture might have played into the invention of the infamous medieval torture devices of the inquisition.

[@jamememes4114]

The mention of the Purgatory of St. Patrick immediately made me think of St. Sophrony of Essex's experience of Hell. Seems like the ascetic experience of "descending into Hell" is the connection between the accounts of Saints (even until the modern age) and the tradition of Purgatory.

[@kristenswensen6451]

After learning about "the Catholic purgatory" as a child, I began to see our world as precisely that! I was not a suffering child, but I was a bookworm, so....became aware 😅

[@Joefrenomics]

Man, listening to them go through examples of stories about purgatory is horrifying. Christianity is wild man.

[@ALLHEART_]

If only there was an English translation of the Saltair na Rann... Anyway, great stuff. You two are the best.

[@anya7014]

God bless you guys.

[@geert8669]

Thank you for this great conversation! I like to mention that the origin of Purgatory goes back way earlier. Some of the earliest Christians writings have records of prayers for the dead. For example in the writings of the Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicitas, second century. Prayers for the souls of the dead make no sense without the belief in Purgatory.

[@zachvinka6764]

Thank you

[@tresselwayne]

I was taught this in my catholic highschool religion class.

[@brendonlake1522]

Listening to this back to back with 'the rest is history' is pretty wild. I can't help but wonder if Clive Barker, the creator of Hellraiser read these accounts of purgatory! I'm really looking forward to hearing about St Brendan.

[@patrickparsons2378]

Purgatory already existed in Christian beliefs but it emerges with vigour in the early medieval missions to convert the Anglo-Saxons, Franks and other Germanic groups in the C6th and C7th AD. The Vision of Fursey, an Irish missionary in Merovingian Gaul is an important expression of how the belief had evolved. Purgatory showed a concern with the anxieties of converts about what would happen to their heathen ancestors. Could they be helped? The story of the failed conversion of Radbod, duke of the Frisians, is informative. He withdrew from the baptismal water on hearing that his ancestors were in Hell. Another dimension of the theology of Purgatory was about the journey of the soul into the afterlife. Purgatory as a place where the soul was prepared for its final leg of the journey.

[@troothseeka4116]

As Richard said he hopes there is a perfecting transformation/purgation after death. The basic Catholic teaching is that there is this transformation/purgation. "Nothing unclean shall enter". If Orthodox can hope for purgatory and Catholics teach it, perhaps there is room for unity on this matter.

[@HyButchan]

The island with the entrance to Purgatory is called "Station Island" and it is actually not in Northern Ireland but in Co. Donegal in the Republic of Ireland but is very close to the border. Visitors beware: There are 2 lakes called Lough Derg in Ireland, one big one and one small one. Station island is in the small Lough Derg in Co. Donegal.

[@PaulVanderKlay]

Here for this

[@wicklowpiper1812]

Tuath, is pronounced Tooah. You don't pronounce the last T. And yes, it largely means the territory/tribe. And that word for history is seannachas, which you very well described... "old handed down lore"as opposed to Stair, as in 'history ' we also have bealoideas, directly translates as mouth/oral education, or folklore, in English doesn't quite cut it

[@rustyshackelford3590]

Then why is it spelled with a T?

[@wicklowpiper1812]

@@rustyshackelford3590 in irish, when the letter h, occurs after a letter it softens the sound of the proceeding letter so much, that it either reduces it to a soft breath ( hard to describe) or it silences it altogether. So tuath, can be pronounced Tooa, or tooah. Please dont ask me the whys of silent letters in gaelic. Like in english, i thint silent letters are echoes or throwbacks of how the word might have been otiginally pronounced. Eg right in scots-english still sounds like richt. The k in knife was originally pronounced. And back to irish, the county Louth, was originally, and till recently written as Lúgh (celtic god of light pronounced loo) but now sadly spelt just Lú, which not only looses the meaning, but actually changes it as Lúgh was a god, while Lú means small. Maybe preserving the silenced letters preserves their meaning

[@jean-michellavoie1889]

​@@wicklowpiper1812Does this hold for Old Irish, though?

[@sigurdholbarki8268]

​@@jean-michellavoie1889yes, but it's wise to ask - people often erroneously assume Old Norse pronunciations are the same as Modern Icelandic.

[@sigurdholbarki8268]

Old English has some weird ones as well. Ge- at the start of a word is usually pronounced as Yeh-, otherwise it's a hard G. Vowels at the end of a word are always sounded, "here" (war/battle) is pronounced as heh-reh, whereas in modern English it lengthens the preceding vowel.

[@jonboatwright7777]

Excellent.

[@else-mariatennessen6982]

Wonderful video. Thank you for all you do. Which St Martin did you refer to at the end? Would like to read that…

[@patriciamayhew6321]

I want a program about how the Irish Penetentials led to and formed the practice of Confession.

[@DonnaMcClelland-h5t]

What is the name of the book or books that you referenced in regards to the Irish saints? I’d like to read those stories.

[@alohm]

The ancient Gaelic word for "history" is **"stair"** (pronounced like "stahr"). In Old Irish, the precursor to modern Gaelic languages, the word "scél" (pronounced "skel") was also used, which more directly translates to "story" or "tale," and was often used in the context of recounting events or legends, a concept closely tied to history in the oral tradition. The word "stair" in modern Irish and Scottish Gaelic now specifically refers to history, reflecting the evolution of the language over time.

[@drts6955]

Stair comes from French histoire. Nothing ancient about it

[@alohm]

​@@drts6955 non c'est pas vrais. The 'stair' is how to pronounce the word. Essai encore s'il vous plait.

[@drts6955]

@@alohm gabh mo leithscéal, tá an ceart agat. Tagann sé on bhfocal "historia". C'est à dire que c'est pas ancien non plus

[@alohm]

@@drts6955 It is old indeed, the modern interpretation of history is new, the story or lore is the old meaning. ;)

[@drts6955]

@@alohm focal sean is ea é gan dabht, ach focal na Laidine átha i gceist, ní focal Gaelainne. Más rud é go bhfuilimid ag trácht ar bhrí an fhocail, sin ceist eile. Nílim ach ag freagairt an rud a dúirís! "Ancient Gaelic word": ní hea!

[@downinthecypressswamp2234]

St. Aiden and Osswald brought me to the Orthodox Church.

[@aidan4062]

Glory to God!

[@johny7116]

I had the thought recently, that maybe purgatory is just reincarnation dressed in Judeo-Christian Mythology. (I’m sure I am not the first person to think this). Something like, we are projecting our life from a “place,” (more like a field or realm) which dictates how we see the world. This life in itself, is a sort of purgatorial, and we can jump up or down the scale (closer or further away from God) based on our relationship with God, sin and surender. The “lower” realms are hell realms and the “upper” are heavenly realms. There are infinite things and combinations of things we can attend to in this world, and what realm we are in offers a specific spectrum of options to attend to. Surrendering to God allows us to jump up the scale, which presents a new world in a way. The opposite is true too, the lower we go, the more we experience a “hell on earth.” Grace vs self will. Death ends the projection of the earthly realm and we sort of “wake up” where we actually are, the hell or heavenly realm we were projecting from. We then “go back in” for another round for potential purification. Like a spiritual jungle gym. Purification of the saints, is a jump to a Heavenly realm that no longer partakes in earthly incarnation and that breaks the cycle or purgatorial reincarnation, much like “moksha,” in Vedic tradition. Johnathan’s argument sounds a bit like the above description to me.

[@1907jdee]

Tuath, the “th” is silent, so its pronunciation is “too ah”

[@laurenjones3184]

This conversation brings to mind the stories of Demeter and Isis holding the babies over fire to burn away their mortality .

[@williambranch4283]

St Patrick's Purgatory is still a place of pilgrimage.

[@beirbua3968]

It is an experience almost 180 degrees opposite to this type of academic historicist speculation which almost borders upon New Ageism

[@Bradford.C.Wallsbury]

​@@beirbua3968why New Age?

[@DrCrispyJohnson]

I have done it twice

[@healthydee381]

Its nit new age. Its extremely penitential and Catholic​@@Bradford.C.Wallsbury

[@healthydee381]

Are you talking about Lough Derg?

[@arhont2009]

Does anyone know where I can read a good collection of lives of Irish Saints?

[@outoforbit00]

A little note here from an Irish Catholic about purgatory without getting into symbolism, from Catholic understanding of purgatory Jonathan's understanding of purgatory is indeed partly true. We often say in Ireland about people who are going through years of suffering particularly if its health related, that the person is having their purgatory here on earth. Of course this is not denying others will experience it after their bodily death in the place called purgatory. In that place the suffering for their sins is deeper hence more painful because they waited to repent of all their sins. Incidentally you may have heard of the Apparitions of Our Blessed Mother Mary in Ireland in a village called Knock after the famine in the 19th century. Its agreed by the Church now that that particular apparition was to do with purgatory. See Uniquely Mary channel for a brief account of why this is the understanding of Our Lady of Knock.

[@RMarshall57]

I sense that what Jonathan is talking about is the kind of purgation that Jesus describes in the metaphor of the vine needing to be pruned in order to bear more fruit, to lead morally fruitful (not just outwardly correct) and flourishing lives. The cutting away can be extremely rigorous and painful, and it will be if we are serious about it. I think it is in this sense that "purgatory" is Biblical. The thing is that when we die the pruning process will be by no means complete. I'm not sure what to do with that. The beatific vision will also be purgative. I like what Richard said about perfect goodness being something that we will continue to grow into after death. No process towards perfection will be complete at the eschaton, because only God is and ever will be perfect.

[@LilgreaseLord]

These are great but please let Jonathan talk more !! you ramble on then rush him every time he speaks up!!

[@ethanwatts1082]

Hey Richard, what would you recommend to learn more about Medieval Irish Christianity?

[@reeferfranklin]

I'm drawn to Celtic Christianity, but not because it might be a 'hippie" Christianity, but because of it's direct link to my own ancestry & the spiritual heritage of my own ancestors, also their role in preserving the West & how ancient they are as a Tradition of Christianity.

[@universalflamethrower6342]

Catholicism was a local affair, even today it is a set of different traditions. People nowadays view Catholicism through protestant eyes, even Catholic's themselves.

[@trosenthal3711]

​@@universalflamethrower6342 Part of the problem is that nowadays Catholicism is pretty much restricted to the Mass. As central as it is, all the "big and small t" traditions around the faith are important as well, and they completely fell away. Everyone clocks in and out of Catholicism on Sunday, if they even go at all. Pageau is right, we have to immerse ourselves again. Holy wells, blessed herbs, everything.

[@universalflamethrower6342]

@@trosenthal3711 luckily I live in a country where processions, lents, shrines, etc are still a thing. Although deminished. I am also fortunate that my pre Catholic performance art can be easily integrated with Catholicism. I always played out fairy tales out in the open, doing that in a Catholic context brings it to fullfilment.

[@reeferfranklin]

As a mostly Scotch-Irish, Welsh & British American that has been in the New World since the 1630s, I'm just trying to hear the same Church bell tolling as mine own Fathers before me.

[@EmilyTodicescu]

28:25 Reminiscent of the Judaic myth: “The Feast at the End of Days”. In one iteration, Leviathan’s skin is said to be used as a sukkah - its hide will cover the tent of the messianic banquet, under which the righteous will be seated.

[@resurrectingand]

How do I contact Matthew Wilkinson?

[@de0den]

I have had one real one word question about all of this said here. It is, Why? Why have we been born for this?

[@charlesd3a]

The monastic church was of Irish origin Saint Colmcille Columba Columbanus and others not just saved civilization but also gives them education, space in words and the confessional. Irish Christianity and nobility were intertwined the old laws remained under the nobility but intergrated Christianity along with ancient laws. This all changed with the normans invasion of Ireland which was said to be blessed by the Pope to bring in the Irish church in line with the whole church.

[@rumination2399]

Yeah. Love JP but I’m not paying for his courses

[@thegreatgriff]

Interesting talk! Irish church in Britain and Gaul though?... I'd prefer 'Celtic Christianity' no one seems to have a problem that St Patrick was Welsh, but no one ever mentions that St Columba was trained at Bangor is-y-coed (Wales); or that St. Helen of the Cross was infact a British (Welsh) princess (and not a Bythinian barmaid - obviously). St Gildas said that Christianity came to Britain in 37 AD; which coincides with Welsh traditions remembering people like St. Ilid who, in Welsh tradition, is remembered as coming to Wales to help start the church there; he is touted often in Welsh historiography as Joseph of Arimathea. Remember Aristobolous of Britannia, one of the 70 disciples, he spent the rest of his days in Wales...

[@felixwalne3494]

What was the name of this knight journey text?

[@charlesd3a]

Ireland had no cities or towns the monasteries went like of today but much larger and self contained places of leaning and of faith. Many of the leading Monks and Abbotts and Abbottesses were of nobility.

[@TravelingPilgrim-ct6mh]

1:04:25 I guess the reason for having a lot of hooks is because Ireland gives cultural importance to fishing and salmon

[@fluxpistol3608]

What's the likelihood that some version of "The Afterlife" is an old way of saying what we call "Retirement" ?

[@barabara9549]

Paul said each one is going to be clearly revealed when the day comes. That day will begin with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each mans work. If his structure stands up to it, he will get his wages. If it is burnt down, he will be the loser, and though he is saved himself, it will be as one who has gone through fire.Paul describes purgatory

[@TheDonovanMcCormick]

I think the idea of purgatory as such is pretty reasonable, just specific instances and ideas of how that actually works can be problematic. I think most of us know deep down that something extra has to happen for us to be worthy or able to even be in the presence of God in the next life. What that is and how it takes place is another story.

[@pamgreen7178]

Do you have to repent and acknowledge that Jesus is Santa God and died on the cross for your sins and start living for him and that’s the only way to heaven

[@dustinthewind825]

Toll house episode!?

[@PilgrimMission]

Very interesting thank you. In Africa this is happening (legendary miraculous ascetic practices) and they do not know anything about the Orthodox Church, well of course not. Saints are being developed right now in places like Zambia, Zaire and Nigeria. China too...and India. Their culture, canon and " rule" is being formed on very different lines. Thank you for pointing out that this was already happening in Ireland in the 5th century. How do you think one could promote this happening in Africa along its own lines? What is the essential theology to incorporate all of it? How do we learn to appreciate the African model?

[@LupinGaius-ls1or]

What seems to be the teaching on purgatory runs from basically the Orthodox position to Dante’s: which is to say it all seems to be pious opinion without being defined. It based on the experience of my Irish great grandmother I’m not at all suprised they’d be particularly austere.

[@MrChristianDT]

Technically, you can say the Greeks, Romans & Germans/ Scandanavians had a purgatory, too. They all had virtually the exact same afterlife system, so far as one can tell. Purgatory for Greco-Romans would be just getting stranded, with Charon refusing to take you across the river, Styx to any of the main 3 afterlife realms. Germans & Scandanavians had a bridge, but the bridge is guarded by a jotunn & sounds like a bell any time someone walks over it. Otherwise, it's the same concept. Either way, it's only temporary, as are all the afterlife realms to the Greco-Romans, other than Elysium & ends in a memory wipe & forced reincarnation for a chance to try to earn the best afterlife again.

[@pandjbruno]

This video should come with a warning sticker! 😮😮😮

[@user-tp7wi4lt2b]

In my opinion (which is admittedly not worth much), the problem with the concept of hell-like torments as purgatory (i.e. purification) after death is that suffering in this life is actually NOT purifying if it is not taken on freely. This is just Orthodox spiritual life. And at least from my understanding the teaching is that the believer is sent to purgatory as purifying punishment involuntarily which misses the essential prerequisite for healing - the free will. But i'm always open to be corrected.

[@wmarkfish]

“He’s a knight, you know?” And once a knight is enough.

[@JoshAlicea1229]

Sorry, I haven’t watched anything yet- but I was watching The Chosen and the Romans kept saying, “Hades and Styx.” I looked up Styx and it seems to be connected to the idea of Purgatory. I’ll come back to this when I’m done watching.

[@de0den]

As I remember, Styx is the river that runs through (or to) Hell.

[@JoshAlicea1229]

@@de0den yes. On the way, one needs to accept, overcome the fear of, and come to grips with one’s death; dealing with the regrets of life- being able to stand firm at the gates of Hades.

[@47StormShadow]

So it's true what I've been led to believe: we Catholics and you Orthodox don't actually disagree on the subject of purgatory right? I mean, I understand that we may stress different aspects but in essence we both see how God's mercy and justice are satisfied in purgatory. Like Jonathan said, it's basically a continuation of our earthly struggle against sin but with the final victory the Christ gives us assured and no pains wasted. If I'm wrong please do correct me.

[@oekmama]

Have you had Jamaican-style curry goat? You don’t get tired of goat. 😂😂😂

[@sicilieli1]

Why did medieval Christians believe they would be saved? How about Saint Theodora and her vision?

[@robertlewis6915]

1:14:00 Rohlin's please for purgatory rests on too small a view of death and holiness both. Death is more significant than he allows; holiness is an infinite and therefore not obtainable by finite steps of perfection, necessitating the infinite step of perfection which accompanies or follows death.

[@davidniedjaco9869]

All i have to say is, in all truthfulness and sincerity, what if these visions of Purgatory are real?..i know the Orthodox Church doesn't believe in Purgatory, and there was quite a lot of smirking during the reading of the descriptions..but, what if, just what if, Purgatory is real, and these visions are real?..God bless Mary protect +++

[@IvanSpaziano-ko5cv]

I've read, You will not come out until you've not payed the last penny, and In my Father there are many houses. Pray for other people's, even for your loving one death, cause the Church is in both, heaven and earth how book of revelation says , logically it comes out from those points I suppose, that's why modern Saints says to pray and intercede for all, even our death parents. It's a logical consequence, but I think it from an agnostic point of view.

[@BruceHeller24]

Up the gaelic Union. We need a Celtic union of nations 😊❤

[@Tara-zq3il]

IIs he saying Monks were tortured ?

[@ALLHEART_]

32:24 Catharism was quite extreme in its asceticism, no?

[@olgakarpushina492]

Yeah, I immediately thought of the Cathars as the extreme of southern France, too. But they were emphatically not Christian, tbh.

[@mostlydead3261]

​@@olgakarpushina492fake news.. they were a christian offshoot..

[@olgakarpushina492]

@@mostlydead3261 nope. They were the offshoots of the 10th century Bulgarian heresy, bogomily. Gnostic. Two gods. Considered the Creator of the Universe, aka God the Father, the evil demiurge. Despised sex and flesh in general. The only good thing they did was produce that unique amour courtois literature.

[@danocinneide1885]

There is only one Church....1 Tim 3:15...The Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth

[@willth7305]

Richard has to be the most Germanic looking dude I've seen

[@strangetheology]

The written word is less trustworthy because it has no breath. When someone passes understanding on orally, you are receiving that information from a living source.

[@mostlynotworking4112]

Despirited breath ftw. Until the AI generates voice

[@johncoffman1990]

The connection between the poetic and the rigorous is a very natural one. It has to do with one moving to a very intimate connection with *meaning.* I mean, "meaning" not in a general sense (but that is true) but through their conscious experiences of meaning. This spans from illumination of God's grace in created things to the inherent realizations that comes into language when one has this experience.

[@DolanIre_blackhair]

Dark ages because of the book that made a god that said "shut up women. " Dante gave a small little seed of a birth to rennaisance. The enlightened that realize what gods voice sounds/sounded like

[@DolanIre_blackhair]

I agree it's a religion for men for shore .

[@DolanIre_blackhair]

They hated Ireland because their druid was way more peaceful than the the book god. Yes to the oral! Damn book wars

[@xrendezv0usx]

As for me, the Blood of Christ is SUFFICIENT for ALL cleansing and all purification! What Christ did for me on the cross He did once and for all, and He said "it is finished." There is NO additional time spent in spiritual prison or additional punishment or penalty I must pay- the Blood of Christ is sufficient! As for those of you who believe that the Blood of Christ is not enough, that what He did on the cross was not enough, and you need to spend some additional time in purgatory before He lets you into paradise- it will be done to you according to your faith!

[@MsDamosmum]

But it seems to me that some people sin greatly, and they don’t care who they harm, and they don’t seem to suffer any consequences because they don’t have a conscience that perturbs them 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@spmoran4703]

I think you are mistaking it for the Irish realm of the dead Limboug.

[@brendanwiley253]

The whole cow coming back to life think makes me think of the relation between us young people and the boomers where it feels like they took what they were given and ate it all leaving nothing to plant and so if the cows can come back maybe a holy enough man can restore prosperity to the west.

[@olgakarpushina492]

The said prosperity of the West is in fact the means of it's ruin. Just like Rome. Just like Sodom.

[@Matt-zx7uj]

Purgatory feels Irish

[@i1-L22Belarus]

Whats the difference between this world and purgatory. As far as i can see there is none.

[@DrCrispyJohnson]

Why doesn't this Richard guy go and do a pilgrimage to St Patrick's Purgatory today and then come back to talk about it.

[@alternativetext5262]

Nobody comes back from death

[@DrCrispyJohnson]

@@alternativetext5262 St Patrick's Purgatory on Lough Derg is a place of pilgrimage in Donegal Ireland. You should go yourself, three days of fasting, prayer and all night vigil. Do you good.