'Universities have CEASED to be as we understood them' - Peter Hitchens RAILS against ripoff degrees

'People are being encouraged to go into life long debt so that they can get qualifications that won't do them much good.'
Columnist for the Mail on Sunday, Peter Hitchens, says there are 'far too many universities' and 'far too many students'.
#degree #highereducation #university #education
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[@Deepfake820]

Education, education, education..... Indoctrination, indoctrination, indoctrination

[@DOCTORDROTT]

yes

[@user-fu4iw5dx3f]

Look at the civil service

[@benedictcowell6547]

Amongst the many subjects upon which the new oracle, Nigel Farage, feels equipped to expatiate, from his position of pure ignorance, [ignorance has never inhibited Nigel, on the contrary, he is emboldened by the probability that his target audience is yet more ignorant and even as stupid as himself, hence his appeal, he is the echo of uninformed prejudice, the blind leading the bland] is the Universities. Now one of the handicaps that Nigel might be thought to have is a limited vocabulary and therefore rather limited perceptions and rather limited analytical power. To return from the parenthesis Nigel sees fit to criticise the Universities. What are the confusions at the base of his pyramid of ignorance? We have a clue from another source of ignorance, the ignorance cultivated and yielded through attendance at Oxford, and this panjandrum has the facility of producing solutions which are entirely marginal to the none problems addressed. There are differences, differences of meaning of which these panjandra hope you are unaware. The difference between 'Education' [sensu stricto] and being well qualified. I wil only remark here that the of last seven prime minister six have been provided by Oxford. These include Blair, Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, and Sunak, the exceptions in the last eight Prime Minister were Gordon Brown and John Major; the former was a product of St. Andrews, the latter not a University Graduate. If one looks at this list of serial failure from Cameron to Sunak onie might be inclined to assume that 'education' was a decided disadvantage but the singularity of the alma mater of all these might suggest not that eucation per se was the problem but that PPE or Oxford was the problem and now we come to another singular fact, that in the almost eighty years that have elapsed since the end of the last war all but Major, Callaghan, Brown Major and Churchill were Oxford Products and that during those eighty years for no less than 63 years Oxford has provided our prime minister. I would say however that of all those Oxford graduates only two, or possibly three have been an unqualified success; Attlee, Wilson, and Heath. and I have a fondness for Harold MacMillan. Of the four who I think were a success what they all have in common was not only a University, but experience of War, either immediate, personal experience of the front, in world War I and II or experience of governaunce during War. but experience! Could it be that Oxford was not the fount of their success. To return then to the original point; we cannnot generalise about British Universities on the basis of attendance to Oxford, and we should make a distinction that Nigel does not make between qualifications and Education. Education produces Intellect, critical analysis, and wisdom, but some of the biggest idiots I have met have been well qualified by dint of having received six pence in Silver and been able to provide six pence in change in farthings. Nigel feels able to generalise about our Universities, but again no one ever challenges NIgel to vouchsafe the premises of his 'attitude', no one says 'On what basis Nige do you make these generalisations?' We have to bear in mind Nige's provenance and background, this is the man who is campaigning to foist a rapeist a traitor and a fraud on the USA . Could just be that Nige's judgement is suspect, that as with Climate Change and Human Rights and the EU NIge is talking rubbish? and his support is derived from those who know even less? What is the basis of my reservations in respect to Nige and Oxford? Well the circumstance that prompts me immediately is that I have acquired an edition of Erich Heller's book 'The Disinnherited Mind' [When I moved I mislaid my first edition] and this book was called to mind when I was reading the little short guides to Nietzsche, Schopenhauer and Kant . But the essay I want to , mention eventually, necessary excurse, is the ones on Karl Krauss. First though I want to remark that I acquired this second edition which has been in the University Library of Kent, Canterbury. The book was in good condition, there seemed no reason in respect to its physical condition to part with it, but the interesting item of data was that the book had last been used judging by the date stamp in 2002. If the date stamp is singular and the physcal condition 'good' why then part with one of the most seminal studies of Nineteenth Century German Literature and Philosophy? Because German or indeed any language is now an option at 14, when our youths beginn to specialise, they may drop Geography or History, or Science or a Language and concentrate on a qualification rather than an education. Could it be that Nige has missed the point, that it is not all Universities that are failing, even Oxford may produce brains better equipped than Boris Johnson, Therese May, Liz Truss and Sunak, could it be that it is not the Universities are failing the county, but that the entire basis of our education, is over specialised too soon, that the curricula are defective, that there might be a point in being able to speak another language in Post Brexit Britain, that a knowledge of Biology.,Chemistry, Physics, Geography and heaven forbid 'Philosophy' might have a positive purpose, and could it be that just possibly it is our over specialised system, our intellectual Perspectives made our poliiticians hopeless inadequate in the EU because they had not the slightest idea what Europe is?. We know from the Covid enquiry that Boris Johnson grappled, in vain, with concepts such as 'xponential' and with the biology of Virus, we know that these topics were as foreign to him as Truth or indeed any thought since the Birth of the Emperor Constantine, no one better than Boris to translate Homer, few worse than Boris at understanding any concept not in the Odyssey. The Universities are not the problem, it is our education and the attitudes they it inculcates and that is why I suspect thatt on this subject as on most other subjjects Nige is talking rubbish, The fault dear Nige is not in our Universities it s in the attitudes that inform our attitude to reality Just briefly return to Heller and 'The Disinherited mind'. When I was reading his chapters on Spengler and Krauss his analysis of those times seemed so uncannily like our own, his discussion of Karl Krauss especially had resonance because that period resembled our own, less in the precise origins of flailing confidence, than in the social destability that issued from that and produced Weimar, and then Hitler, Mussolini, Franco and even the Russian Revolution all of which emptied Europe of its intellectual inheritance. We do not study languages, we do not study European History, we do not study Literature, we do not study Science we do not study Maths as esentials to our understanding of our times and by those lacks are probably we have excluded ourselves from Europe. We know vaguelypwhere it is, but we have no synpoptic knowledge of what it is. Could it be that Nige and Rishi are wrong again, as they are on Immigration, on Islam, on Science, on the European Court of Human rightss? Is it just possible, we ask, whether Nige is wrong?, Again!

[@user-fu4iw5dx3f]

@@benedictcowell6547 loneliness can induce such displays for recognition, reach out dude, quickly!!!!

[@jlm3124]

Used to be expected to understand both sides of an argument. Now, it is find a victim and wallow in victimhood.

[@sticksman1979]

Degrees in Gender Studies can go in the bin.

[@pholdway5801]

Yes, the one with the waster in it. Flushed with success

[@chrismattravers5434]

Gender studies, women's studies, sociology, many humanities courses = mickey mouse degrees!

[@theautumnalcyclist7629]

I would also include Black history, Gender studies etc as generally these are the courses that fuel the BBC and DEI. To be honest I've never really understood a degree in journalism surely to be a great writer english and history are key in the uk anyway?

[@annamoon7222]

It's actually producing nutters 😅 we need a rethink.

[@grahamjones1269]

How about a PHD in, 'Digital Feminist Activism?

[@grahamjones1269]

​@@theautumnalcyclist7629Yes, I've never understood the need of a 3 year course in journalism. If such a course is needed at all, it should be tacked on to the end of your, say, English degree, or maybe a two week summer course.

[@goodyeoman4534]

Lesbian Dance Theory, Golf Course Management, Media Studies, Race Theory . . .

[@azar1354]

Vote for 16 year olds is a very stupid idea. I'm quite surprised that Aaron supports that.

[@hittitecharioteer]

(He IS of the "hard left"; probably a communist. No surprises there?)

[@Hypersonik]

He co-founded Novara media and you're surprised at his support for stupid ideas? If anything, voting should be raised to 21.

[@user-rf5rj7ee2v]

If 16 year old's are allowed to vote they then must be treated as adults in a Court of Law!

[@marumaru6084]

He will back anything that brings votes to the left.

[@DrawnInk1]

They will do it because they believe they will get future votes.

[@stephendalton1648]

Half the universities need to be closed and half the arts and humanities departments closed in the remainder.

[@Elizabeth-jd3mn]

The Tories have had 14 years to do it but didn't because its generated huge amounts of money. Two failing parties. Reform UK.

[@YouTubemessedupmyhandle]

Shall we burn the books as well?

[@Yummers_310]

Some should be yes

[@hittitecharioteer]

Been suggested for at least a decade in the UK.

[@elkpaz560]

@@johnkitching2248 Nothing stopping you reading books yourself - don't have to do it on the taxpayer's dollar. The real issue however is that all these courses have been infected by so-called 'critical ideology' which is anything but critical in the academic sense and promotes an activist mindset based on a narrow distorted reading of all of Western thought and history.

[@raycundy4265]

The worst thing they have done to the Police Service for example is insist that new recruits have a degree. The wrong people are being recruited as a result. People who have done little with their life other than study until their early twenties going straight into a job that requires communication skills, man management skills and common sense sometimes having to think on your feet and react accordingly. Plus, being quite physically imposing would also be an advantage.

[@romeisfallingagain]

wrong people? they want people who can repeat information they read without question. they are the perfect target audience for drones

[@andrewfallon2719]

Physically imposing ? That policy was dropped as soon as they allowed women on the frontline. Bad mistake

[@chabsrule.]

Absolutely, couldn't agree more. It's not rocket science ywt.

[@Jammydodgers41]

Probably the best police officers are ones that have grown up in an environment that's been around criminality. They know exactly the signs to look for.

[@jasonbarnes1541]

@@andrewfallon2719 No problem with women yet they need to be the same height etc as men, or has it now been lowered to cater for Muslim police?

[@jeremykille4689]

Blame Blair and the law of unintended consequences. Half of young people going to university was always a bad idea. I did day release and one full day a week at college in the 70s to get qualified. It was hard. But I didn't have any debt at the end of it and much of that time I lived at home. What's missing it seems to me is a course on critical thinking, so many kids come out of university with really outlandish attitudes.

[@neuralwarp]

50% though. I mean, what idiot course could they study? Law? Politics?

[@jeremykille4689]

@@neuralwarp not sure where you are going with this?

[@philiphumphrey1548]

I did HNC (Higher National Certificate) and then an honours degree by day release in the 1970s. It was probably harder than doing it full time, but the work experience was invaluable. And the employer benefitted by having young bright people about willing to do jobs like lab technician etc.

[@jeremykille4689]

@@philiphumphrey1548 yes, young bright people are always good to be around. One of my lecturers was of the opinion that day release students had the edge over full time students, because they did so much more in the same time.

[@johnny71c]

Well said

[@MalePaleandStale-ko7bj]

Scrap Mickey Mouse degrees - good idea. While we are at it, why not scrap Mickey Mouse politicians.

[@jackiemadden4024]

That would be great well said

[@pholdway5801]

IQ test for all candidates .. 120 MINIMUM

[@BlackGriffin195]

Here, Here!

[@stuartbritton4811]

What's wrong with Mickey Mouse? Or Daffy Duck, for that matter?

[@josephlennon8475]

Bravo. Well, said.

[@Beefeater1234]

This guy must know some of these degrees are a front for immigration.

[@petertheboomscott2104]

Micky mouse degrees are just for job dodgers. Get an apprenticeship and get a job.

[@user-rf5rj7ee2v]

Good tradesmen are said to be earning $150K pa in Australia.

[@petertheboomscott2104]

@@user-rf5rj7ee2v good for them

[@neuralwarp]

Does this apply to millionaires too, or just poor people.

[@neuralwarp]

​@@user-rf5rj7ee2v That's about £50k isn't it. British tradies are earning £60-80k.

[@petertheboomscott2104]

@@neuralwarp it applies to everyone

[@avipatable]

Universities should go back to being for the intellectually gifted only - with an aim to improving society through innovation. Nothing else. I have 2 degrees, and when I went back as an adult, it was clear to me what a joke the system was. It was very disappointing.

[@jlm3124]

Same here. A recent return showed me that psychology has become an indulgent wallowing in personal feelings, rather than an attempt to understand mental functioning. MSc had lower content than a BA from much earlier.

[@colinnewmarch1106]

What a sad state this once proud country has become, due to constant apology and appeasement, a bunch of so called leaders, clueless, and scared stiff of upsetting anyone who shouts loud

[@francesbrown5116]

Blair / US policies have dumbed our children down .

[@joycegibbs5267]

Blair is the main one IMO.

[@cb465]

16 year olds will vote on feelings not facts...Starmer knows that. Very easy to sway emotional people with a little propaganda. As we see already with this age group, the social contagion of trans etc

[@teamcoalhapcharcoal]

Everybody votes on feelings and not facts, since the same facts can be used to create more or less whatever narrative you like, depending on your feelings.

[@Dhoggy]

@@teamcoalhapcharcoal explains the muslim vote perfectly.

[@SeismicEvent]

You will need a degree to be a lavatory attendant soon if it's left for universities to decide what qualifications to offer.

[@Dezzasheep]

There's also a problem with employers. I studied for a degree in graphic design. This profession absolutely does not need a BA, yet 95% of employers ask for one.... Chicken and egg situation.

[@James_36]

it is called gatekeeping managers who work there who feel they want a degree person because they had to do one

[@fishinabox]

I did a Graphic Design degree and have seen it as a trade because of the commercial and promotional needs.

[@Dezzasheep]

@@fishinabox if there's talent for design, it van be nurtured as a trade/apprenticeship. No need for a 3 year degree in my opinion.

[@fishinabox]

My first Graphic Design opportunity was in fact an Apprenticeship in Graphic design with an advertising company in the Centre of London in the early 70s. Also I once met a German art skills organiser whose programme ideas were very like apprenticeships. Can be done.

[@warmbrucuriosity]

I don't think people should have the vote until they start paying income tax. That would focus their minds on government waste.

[@user-xf3cu4le5z]

Government in general has to decrease in size drastically too

[@michaelmayes9689]

A University education used to be to expand the mind. Today a university education is designed to contract the recipient mind into conforming, and that is what we have today universities turning out like minded people who all think the same.

[@christinefiedor3518]

Spot on!

[@benedictcowell6547]

Amongst the many subjects upon which the new oracle, Nigel Farage, feels equipped to expatiate, from his position of pure ignorance, [ignorance has never inhibited Nigel, on the contrary, he is emboldened by the probability that his target audience is yet more ignorant and even as stupid as himself, hence his appeal, he is the echo of uninformed prejudice, the blind leading the bland] is the Universities. Now one of the handicaps that Nigel might be thought to have is a limited vocabulary and therefore rather limited perceptions and rather limited analytical power. To return from the parenthesis Nigel sees fit to criticise the Universities. What are the confusions at the base of his pyramid of ignorance? We have a clue from another source of ignorance, the ignorance cultivated and yielded through attendance at Oxford, and this panjandrum has the facility of producing solutions which are entirely marginal to the none problems addressed. There are differences, differences of meaning of which these panjandra hope you are unaware. The difference between 'Education' [sensu stricto] and being well qualified. I wil only remark here that the of last seven prime minister six have been provided by Oxford. These include Blair, Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, and Sunak, the exceptions in the last eight Prime Minister were Gordon Brown and John Major; the former was a product of St. Andrews, the latter not a University Graduate. If one looks at this list of serial failure from Cameron to Sunak onie might be inclined to assume that 'education' was a decided disadvantage but the singularity of the alma mater of all these might suggest not that eucation per se was the problem but that PPE or Oxford was the problem and now we come to another singular fact, that in the almost eighty years that have elapsed since the end of the last war all but Major, Callaghan, Brown Major and Churchill were Oxford Products and that during those eighty years for no less than 63 years Oxford has provided our prime minister. I would say however that of all those Oxford graduates only two, or possibly three have been an unqualified success; Attlee, Wilson, and Heath. and I have a fondness for Harold MacMillan. Of the four who I think were a success what they all have in common was not only a University, but experience of War, either immediate, personal experience of the front, in world War I and II or experience of governaunce during War. but experience! Could it be that Oxford was not the fount of their success. To return then to the original point; we cannnot generalise about British Universities on the basis of attendance to Oxford, and we should make a distinction that Nigel does not make between qualifications and Education. Education produces Intellect, critical analysis, and wisdom, but some of the biggest idiots I have met have been well qualified by dint of having received six pence in Silver and been able to provide six pence in change in farthings. Nigel feels able to generalise about our Universities, but again no one ever challenges NIgel to vouchsafe the premises of his 'attitude', no one says 'On what basis Nige do you make these generalisations?' We have to bear in mind Nige's provenance and background, this is the man who is campaigning to foist a rapeist a traitor and a fraud on the USA . Could just be that Nige's judgement is suspect, that as with Climate Change and Human Rights and the EU NIge is talking rubbish? and his support is derived from those who know even less? What is the basis of my reservations in respect to Nige and Oxford? Well the circumstance that prompts me immediately is that I have acquired an edition of Erich Heller's book 'The Disinherited Mind' [When I moved I mislaid my first edition] and this book was called to mind when I was reading the little short guides to Nietzsche, Schopenhauer and Kant . But the essay I want to , mention eventually, necessary excurse, is the ones on Karl Krauss. First though I want to remark that I acquired this second edition which has been in the University Library of Kent, Canterbury. The book was in good condition, there seemed no reason in respect to its physical condition to part with it, but the interesting item of data was that the book had last been used judging by the date stamp in 2002. If the date stamp is singular and the physcal condition 'good' why then part with one of the most seminal studies of Nineteenth Century German Literature and Philosophy? Because German or indeed any language is now an option at 14, when our youths beginn to specialise, they may drop Geography or History, or Science or a Language and concentrate on a qualification rather than an education. Could it be that Nige has missed the point, that it is not all Universities that are failing, even Oxford may produce brains better equipped than Boris Johnson, Therese May, Liz Truss and Sunak, could it be that it is not the Universities are failing the county, but that the entire basis of our education, is over specialised too soon, that the curricula are defective, that there might be a point in being able to speak another language in Post Brexit Britain, that a knowledge of Biology.,Chemistry, Physics, Geography and heaven forbid 'Philosophy' might have a positive purpose, and could it be that just possibly it is our over specialised system, our intellectual Perspectives made our poliiticians hopeless inadequate in the EU because they had not the slightest idea what Europe is?. We know from the Covid enquiry that Boris Johnson grappled, in vain, with concepts such as 'xponential' and with the biology of Virus, we know that these topics were as foreign to him as Truth or indeed any thought since the Birth of the Emperor Constantine, no one better than Boris to translate Homer, few worse than Boris at understanding any concept not in the Odyssey. The Universities are not the problem, it is our education and the attitudes they it inculcates and that is why I suspect thatt on this subject as on most other subjjects Nige is talking rubbish, The fault dear Nige is not in our Universities it s in the attitudes that inform our attitude to reality Just briefly return to Heller and 'The Disinherited mind'. When I was reading his chapters on Spengler and Krauss his analysis of those times seemed so uncannily like our own, his discussion of Karl Krauss especially had resonance because that period resembled our own, less in the precise origins of flailing confidence, than in the social destability that issued from that and produced Weimar, and then Hitler, Mussolini, Franco and even the Russian Revolution all of which emptied Europe of its intellectual inheritance. We do not study languages, we do not study European History, we do not study Literature, we do not study Science we do not study Maths as essentials to our understanding of our times and by those lacks are probably we have excluded ourselves from Europe. We know vaguely where it is, but we have no synoptic knowledge of what it is. Could it be that Nige and Rishi are wrong again, as they are on Immigration, on Islam, on Science, on the European Court of Human rights? Is it just possible, we ask, whether Nige is wrong?, Again!

[@michaelmayes9689]

@@benedictcowell6547 Well said but pause and think a little deeper. In this country we have had a 100 years of decline regardless of where our politicians were educated the facts speak for themselves. We have the highest tax rate since the 2nd world war, and an economist has stated the average tax rate via direct and indirect taxation is over 42% . The quality of our political leaders is abysmal and the national debt stands at 100% of gdp. You can question his policies, whilst anyone Uni educated or not should be able to see the brown sticky stuff is about to hit the fan. It just might be that being university educated is the problem of people not being able to live in the real world as la la land is great whilst other are picking up the bill but when the bill becomes to great then you need a real leader and not a man who whilst serving christmas dinner to a homeless man asked DO YOU WORK IN THE CITY.

[@oreilly1237878]

They have become owned by the deep state new world order.

[@davidhora3296]

The rule that new police come from Unies,means we have cops who can’t face protesters or villains.Ex servicemens needed.

Good point. In my country you need two grades of highschool to be a policeman. Three years to be a garbageman so... Middle ground is needed.

[@shaunhamer4262]

watching politicians pretend to like ordinary people is an awful thing to witness.

[@stevenduncan5695]

why have the tories not done this in the last 14 years? To little to late

[@elkpaz560]

For the same reason they wouldn't do it if they were returned to power.

[@calstonjew]

Cause they gay.🏳‍🌈

[@JesterEric]

2010-15 it was a coalition government, 2016-2020 they were almost exclusively concerned with Brexit, 2020-22 Covid. In reality they have had about two years to enact this type of policy. Would have been lots of Conservative policies if Truss had not been removed

[@siddharthreddiar3353]

@@JesterEric It was going well till you brought up Truss. There's nothing she said or did in her brief time that pushed the country in any direction other than disaster. If you believe in Truss then you might as well bend over and spread them cheeks wide for any Tory

[@RandomUser-100]

I graduated 2001 with a ‘media studies’ degree. Micky Mouse degree sums it up perfectly. It didn’t train me for finding work at the end of it. I met one of my old tutors 10 years later, and she admitted it was a new course and they didn’t have a clue what they were doing with it. I’m annoyed that I had to pay off my student loan for that garbage course.

[@Julia-xz7vb]

100%

[@johnwainwright820]

Well said Peter Hichin.

[@beckinfidelis3916]

Micky Mouse degrees: gender, race, sexualities and intersectional studies. But ALSO lowered standards, easier grades and even giving higher grades based on ethnicity, the integration of "social justice" ideology into nearly all subject matter including math, physics and other sciences.

[@jackiemadden4024]

My grandson is about to go to university in Manchester I pray he will be safe from all this absolute madness

[@jhutchings7627]

Technical colleges were made into 'universities'. Why?

[@andybrice2711]

Seems like elitism to me. Maybe we should bring back polytechnics.

[@ofeliawotsits6080]

Well done Peter. The idea of getting into debt to go to university was such a bad mistake. I went to university in 1979 and it was grant based, we got a small grant to help with tuition fees, but some money did have to come from my parents for accommodation, but nothing like the ridiculous amounts people borrow on student loans today. My question is, how did England cope in 1979 when it came to paying for the grant system, and yet today England cannot cope and forces students to take out humungous loans and get into terrible debt which stay with them for years into their career, if they even have a career. It doesn’t make sense, unless you accept that universities have become greedy and demand vast amounts of money to squander on the salaries of useless people running the university, and utterly crap courses which are no use to England. The universities themselves have become corrupt because of the money that has been thrown at them out of the stupid loans; corrupt and arrogant. It’s not about providing education, it’s a business interested in profit. We need to rewind 40 years and make the universities centres of learning not profit for fat cat principals.

[@boota1979]

@ofeliawotsits6080 Very well said, I agree with every word.

[@Fightforyourdreams2024]

My daughter went to University in 1996 for science and maths degrees! And when she left uni in 1998 that was the last year for grants being available. So see was very lucky! And she also worked during the holidays and every Saturday while at university.

[@davidc4408]

I went to university in 1998 and graduated in 2001 with a math and finance degree. University was only £1k a year then. That degree and internship I did, got me a £65k (equivalent today) a year investment banking analyst role between London and New york. Then did a Masters in finance for only £3.5k, later went to a hedge fund making over £400k as a derivatives trader. That masters costs nearly £40k today. I retired at 32 from paid employment with a networth of over £15 million. I have had enough of this country and now moved to Miami and just have an apartment as a base in Edinburgh. Degree costs have been inflated to give universities larger endowments to keep up with US universities in global rankings. Going to university should only be academic elite in top 30 or so universities and to study something of academic worth that has value. Too many useless degree and useless universities.

[@pietropaolini7398]

Thanks for having the balls to say that

[@ibnrawandi2713]

I worked hard to earn my high degree which I still treasure even though I am retired. Now I do not recognise most university degrees including PhDs. Everything has lost its value in the last two decades just like everything else in the West

[@davidc4408]

Agree. Quality of candidates is huge. I interviewed top Russell group university candidates from University of York and LSE which were impressive. Also interviewed some polytechnic university students who were awful. Most degrees are junk. University degrees below top 50 should be banned

[@skilledjanjua297]

I'm glad I never decided to do a degree, I only went up to college, doing years for free because I was young enough, I passed my courses and never continued further, whereas everyone was planning on going to university. I have always considered them to be rio off courses, in Pakistan you can take a bachelors degree, and the whole thing will cost you nothing in pounds, maybe not even a thousand pounds, and their standard with undergraduate degrees is now on the same level as the UK in some cases it has been admitted by a certain organisation in the UK, I came across this.

[@johnwainwright820]

16yrs of age is far too young to make an informed decision on politics. A person needs expierience of how factories, businesses, offices and other areas of how a Country is managed before being allowed to vote and I would suggest an age over 20yrs would be a starting point. At 16yrs old people are still in school.

[@Fightforyourdreams2024]

And at 16 they have very little life experiences. I'm 67, and glad I didn't vote at 16! In fact at 18 I just voted for whom my parents voted for! Because I had no interest in politics whatsoever. And I'm guessing this is still the case amongst most 16yr olds.

[@phallac35]

Vote at 16 would guarantee forever power from indoctrination of school with no life skill to whatever there told

[@joycegibbs5267]

exactly. And the end of the monarchy and with the rise of Islamic extremism, we're heading to becoming Iran the 2nd.

[@jimtaylor294]

Yup. We'd be wiser rising the voting age back up to 21, and making it clear that teenagers aren't mature enough nor experienced enough to vote.

[@johncummins3860]

Education isn't for everyone, if I had a pound for every maths exam I've failed I'd have £3:50 !!

[@user-xb9wb8sc9l]

Underrated comment.😅😅😅

[@entropy5431]

£1.75 after tax 😉

[@Jane-rc2rk]

As a mum of two daughters who’ve gone through the university system, one daughter Durham and then Oxford, and second daughter Nottingham Trent, I completely agree with the whole premise that there are too many universities with too many Mickey Mouse degrees. My younger daughter wants to be a paramedic … that’s a degree course,self funded through loans. She’s dyslexic and passing exams is hard … give her a practical exam and she’s fantastic! She’d be suited to an apprenticeship but there’s so few of them. I’m also of the opinion that encouraging 50% of the population to go to uni has devalued degrees, has encouraged debt, has distorted the housing market and set unrealistic expectations for too many students. Uni is now very much big business!

[@jogarthehutt]

My son went to university and left after 2 years, he was studying to go into teaching but he found it insulating and he has No idea why he chose teaching as he doesn't like children!

[@user-rf5rj7ee2v]

I come from a country where there were nurse's and teacher's training colleges! At the Nurses' Training College the students had classes in the morning and in the afternoon they had practical training in the hospital. Now they want police officers with a degree to pound beat on the street with "poor" pay and a huge university debt!

[@benedictcowell6547]

One of my colleagues in Russia had been a Police officer in Leningrad, he was a great believer in the beat, because by familiarity with the people and the geography of a city and its personalities 'when there are problems you know first hand the lay out, the special snags, and you know where to find help. The Beat is not dispensable and you can talk to people and you know the city. Police work is not theory it is perspective based on experience' He was a Ph.D in Biology, a Poet and he spoke four languages The reason he left the service was the corruption, 'If the suspect or the offender were a high ranking member of the Party the enquiry was frustrated.' A police woman said that when she went on the beat in her hitherto traditional police uniform the atmosphere of the street changed, 'even them minor villains were showed courtesy and chivalry, they would take care of you.' The police officer is the inter-face between the citizen and governaunce. A friend of mine in the civil defence a police officer remarked when a driver he had stopped for speeding said' I am a friend of the chief Constable' he replied 'Really sir! By all accounts The gaols are full of his 'friends'

[@myopinionsmayoffendyou]

In my experience, apprenticeships are used as an excuse to pay less. When in reality you're expected to do the same work as an employee but you go to college for one day a week.

[@billmartins5545]

Isn't college also for general literacy and numeracy? Doing that only up to age 16 is quite limited.

[@erongi233]

No bad thing if Universities ceased to be as we know them. How relevant are leaders with P.E.P. and classics degrees to a world where science and technology are more and more dominant? Where are the top leaders from Imperial College instead of Oxbridge?

[@GailPlatt]

This sounds like a good idea but it's too late, he's just making a smokescreen. No Rishi, just tell us about the extra 2 million people that have arrived in the last 3 years. Why did that happen and what are you going to do about it?

[@siddharthreddiar3353]

Haven't you been hearing him? He's only been banging on about flying them to Rwanda since Day 1, it's everyone else that's saying no

[@aindriubradleymarshall6226]

The universities were privatized , but no one noticed .

[@neuralwarp]

Universities have always been private. The govt doesn't own them.They don't have to accept public funds if they don't want to. It's the students who were privatised* .

[@ippinekebe3238]

Most ppl did, the ones who wouldnt profit on it, decided not to.

[@jameskrell4392]

I ask you, do you expect inteligence from people who wear shorts and flip flops through winter?

[@MrMjp58]

Why are they coming up with all sorts of interesting policies, just in the short run up to the election? The last 10 years or so have been a stasis of ideas.

[@JWS1968]

Micky Mouse Degrees: Anything in the social sciences particular women's studies, Anything in the field of 'human resources'. Anything in Media. Just start with them and that would get rid of a lot of the rubbish.

[@lumpyfishgravy]

It's any degree that claims to prepare you for a career but does nothing of the sort.

[@gerrymclean-mh2dq]

@@lumpyfishgravy I have a degree in social science and i work in Asda

[@joss8558]

Yeah, anybody employing someone with a degree in 'xxx studies' needs their head examined.

[@jlm3124]

There is nothing wrong with these degrees, it is the quantity of them, and the degree of difficulty involved. If you design a degree with too many people studying it it is a problem. If you design it so the standard is so low that everyone passes it is a problem. If you design it so that it gets extremely high student ratings, you are probably making it too easy, so that it does not challenge students. Degrees are there to educate and teach students how to think. They are not there to entertain kids and defer the need for them to grow up and actually become a working adult. We need to stop treating young people like infants.

[@christinefiedor3518]

@@jlm3124 I’m glad you said “how to think”. Too many courses are telling students what to think. And not teaching how to think critically. Too many graduates don’t seem to be able to construct a simple report. Education per se seems to have gone downhill somewhat with the entry requirements for uni not as stringent as they used to be. Nursing would be a point in case. You’ve always had to have half a brain to be an effective RN. And it has always been hard physically as well as mentally. Even under the traditional style training you needed a levels and o levels to get into a decent teaching hospital /nursing college. This system was never broken in the first place and something’s not broken don’t try to fix it!

[@davidspendlove5900]

The old polytechnics produced graduates that were useful in the workforce, hard working individuals.Changing them to universities made no sense.The rise of everybody going to university is ludicrous, lots of useless degrees and quite useless graduates.Vocational qualifications are looked down on in this country but these qualifications are what we need to produce useful skills.Scrap these crap degrees , the standard of which is frankly awful.

[@user-wi7cf7yh5j]

Half the kids in universities should not be there, they come out with a qualification to work on Tescos checkout........nothing wrong with that .....but you did,nt need to go to Uni for it.......pure good old British snobbery My child went to Uni......so ?

[@dannya8781]

There isn't enough good quality apprenticeships out there. The only winners at university are the top dogs

[@louishiggins8881]

Thought I'd ask my friend Google a couple of questions - apparently, the 3 highest paid university vice-chancellors (in 2023) are paid; £714k, £542k, £539k respectively (average is £269k) 😂. There are 166 UK universities. For comparison, the UK Prime Minister is paid £155k (an MP gets £91k) - which is why we get the numpties we do as our politicians 😂. Isn't Google wonderful 😁.

[@neuralwarp]

Google's not wonderful enough to tell you that CEOs are earning £1m to £5m.

[@user-fu4iw5dx3f]

That's because politics was meant to be a vocation, now it's simply a gateway into business

[@johnwainwright820]

​@@neuralwarp CEO's was not being researched....University bosses was.

[@frankyyaggabot6222]

@@neuralwarp CEOs are hired and can be fired - Vice Chancellors are appointed, do SFA and retire at their leisure.

[@AsphodeliaD]

Gender Studies, Social Anthropology, Women's studies etc... - I think we all know the Mickey Mouse degrees...

[@user-hc5ye4pw7t]

Universities are all about bums on seats and profit! It's ridiculous that many vocational professions eg nursing, radiography etc have become university based degree courses. Has the level of care improved? No. Expectations of some graduates doesn't match the reality of the job and attrition rates are higher than they were when they were diploma type courses. Also some students use them as an entry pathway to get into their original choice eg dentistry or medicine. Students have unrealistic expectations of salaries because they have a degree but no experience they still think they are entitled to 80k plus salary

[@AtlasofInfo]

Voting age should be increased.

[@AtlasofInfo]

... and limited to taxpayers with a minimum threshold of £1000 income tax for eligibility.

[@jennybickham1407]

You should be of legal adult age before you can vote. So you either bring down that, or keep the vote at 18.

[@MrReubenTishkoff]

Labour raised the age to do everything, except voting. And hormonal therapy.

[@obi1kenobi137]

Will people stop suggesting the tax payer pays for someone’s education. I don’t want to pay for people’s kids to study unless it’s something like the NHS and they agree to a contract to work for x amount of years.

[@lynnebarnes3840]

Don't get indoctrination and student debt, get skills.

[@manusha1349]

The Great Peter Hitchens ❤🇬🇧

[@rosemarythomas7819]

There are to many Mickey Mouse degrees,apprentice ships worked so much better,once trained you can work for yourself if you wish.most importantly we know they worked,Britain is short of plumbers electricians,ECT.

[@stevenlarge895]

Video game industry is on the verge of the biggest crash due to identity policitcs arron.

[@NorthernSeaShore]

Mickey Mouse means trivially easy. It’s not just about the subject, but the standard. The Tory-Lib Dem university funding model incentivises easy degrees of all subjects.

[@denise4487]

Well my daughter did a proper course accounting and finance and has worked from the age of 13. Went straight into a job after graduating thats how it should be. My son didnt want to go went straight into work

[@neuralwarp]

Classic example of a degree that should have been an apprenticeship.

[@denise4487]

@@neuralwarp erm SHE WORKED throughout her chartership, degree her a levels and her gcses, 3 jobs including a bank at one point. Earned MORE than what an apprentiship is paid, went into a job with a starting salary of 40k aged 21 and is now earning over 50k at the age of 24 im pretty sure as an apprentice she wouldnt of even have got that.

[@joprocter4573]

My sister in law was matron .no school exams just entry exam to nursing and ppl skills aptidude worked way through nursing route qualified..half time worked ward rest class room

[@thisisstevet]

Business degrees have a fair bit of wokeness in them now - 20-30% I’d say

[@user-sw2lv3zp6o]

It isn't the courses as such that are 'Mickey Mouse', as in certain subjects as opposed to others, it's universities more broadly. There are simply far too many 'students' doing degrees, meaning that degrees are now too easy.

[@billmartins5545]

16 is way too young to vote. I'm bright and did very well in school performing in the top few percentile but I didn't have a clue with regards to national let alone international politics (but this was the early 00s which didn't have smart phones, social media, and we just about had proper internet, but I didn't have my own computer let alone laptop and the internet was totally different from today). These days it's much easier and accessible to get all kinds of information so I think adolescents these days might be more informed (although not necessarily better informed). Still, 16 is too young, even 18 is very young and I don't think many 18 year old teens can really grasp politics well enough to make a good decision for their vote. But you do have to learn some day and the age of majority is 18 so I accept that. If 16+ get to vote, then I want everyone who committed a crime at 16+ to be tried as an adult. So, you stabbed your mate's cousin who dissed you? Straight to jail for 20 years, no leniency because you're "a minor".

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

My next door neighbour has a 2:2 in Contemporary Dance. I always ask her for her opinion on the issues of the day before she sets off for her shelf stacking career in the local supermarket.

[@alexrichardson1571]

And yet I'd rather be her neighbour than yours

[@dovetonsturdee7033]

@@alexrichardson1571 How do you know? You know precisely nothing about either of us.

[@johnsimmonds9910]

How have we reached the point where the OU charges the same doing a degree as other universities? The idea was to provide an affordable route to graduation. A lot of non STEM courses should be offered as part time courses on the OU and other competing platforms.

[@user-rf5rj7ee2v]

A "Micky Mouse" degree is that reported Degree in David Beckham! What also needs to happen is that the degree should be based on the countries' requirements. ie it does not help a student that does a degree with some 5000 other students where the market has only got a requirement for 100 pa!

[@mre7550]

They have been brought under control

[@nioengland]

Bring back the Krypton Factor.. Homeless versus Graduates

[@michaelsimpson4400]

Companies will not take on apprentices if they can import cheap foreign labour who are already trained.

[@MrReubenTishkoff]

Start with the grievance studies.

[@SagaciousFrank]

Britain, once a pioneer and powerhouse of industry, now utterly bereft of any. A nation gutted from within.

[@greyfriars6540]

If you can write your name in crayon you can get into university.

[@elkpaz560]

Only because you bring money.

[@user-fu4iw5dx3f]

How about giving employed 16-18yr olds the vote as they are contributing.

[@jlm3124]

If they are considered able to vote at 16-18, why then are they considered to be mentally children until age 25. Young people want adult rights, but don't want to take responsibility until 25.

[@elkpaz560]

'as' or 'when? How about when they've been paying tax on a full-time job for 5 years ( a term of government).

[@ippinekebe3238]

Since when has talking about issues solved anything on this earth? Actions have been the key.

[@michaelleyland9836]

Apprenticeship in marketing!!! what world is he in? FFS

[@neuralwarp]

GCSE then.

[@nigellacey3803]

Scrap universities.a degree is no guarantee of intelligence!!

[@billmartins5545]

Where should your oncologist or dentist be educated? Or the lab researcher managing the diagnostics lab or the researcher developing new paint or new plastics, things used in cars, household items, manufacturing robots, airplanes etc.?

[@alanbatten5548]

About 20 years ago a school child preparing for International Baccalaureate in west Africa gave a very good definition of a "micky mouse degree' . "Thank you for offering me accommodation while I study for a degree in England., but I would rather go to a middle east university and get a better degree".

[@clim7677]

bring polytechnics back. educational and practical.

[@sisiphas]

I recently sat in ‘university tutorials’. Sadly, what I heard were discussions at the level of fourth form in my grammar school decades ago. That is one problem. Another is that so many courses in ‘social studies’ are silly, or would be better delivered via night class chats and public libraries!

[@lizparker9090]

Apprentice in PLUMBING / ELECTRICIAN / JOINER / PLASTERER /CARPENTER / BRICKLAYER / PAINTER & DECORATER / ROOFER ECT ECT.

[@markfindley61]

Well said 👏 All those trades will be needed forever 😉

[@user-cl1qk9om7l]

And guess who is in all those skillful trades.Our friends from the EU.

[@Julia-xz7vb]

too hard work for limp wristed millennials who can't even get out of bed early enough to get to site.

[@siddharthreddiar3353]

@@Julia-xz7vb you must be joking. Try calling any builder for any work, never sticks to a time-frame, never sticks to a budget if anything I'd say the millennials are embodying that spirit

[@A190xx]

1) Universities should be funded where the degree leads to employment in the same sector. 2) Nursing and midwifery never required a degree and the change has led to a recruitment crisis as many of those best suited to the job cannot apply; and many of those taking the degree are not suited. 3) There are around 200 psychology students for every job in psychology. 4) Many courses could be diplomas, so let them revert to polytechnics and colleges. 5) Never assume not-for-profit means they do not operate as businesses. They do and far worse as the executives have no metrics for performance

[@Julia-xz7vb]

any "degree" that doesn't qualify someone to do a job needs to be binned. Proper degrees = Engineering, medicine, science etc etc. mickey mouse = all these "ologies" and the gender studies nonsense etc etc etc.

[@macmachine]

Universities should not fight for students to keep themselves I business.

[@DonJuanDM]

Nope. Seen through the scam in my degree during 90s. Fast forward 40 yrs, told my son who is academic mediocre to stay away from toxic universities. He took an apprenticeship at 17 and now he is working as a technician, no debt, hands on skill and real world experience.

[@jamescoburn6789]

I worked in the jobcentre up to 2014. Coffee shop apprenticeships, cleaning apprenticeships all employer scams to avoid paying full wage. Have you ever met a time served cleaner?

[@anthonyferris8912]

I’ve got high hopes for my degree in 'Media Studies'....😃

[@GailPlatt]

Yes my degree in gender studies should set me up for a great career in errr. . .

[@nickmiller76]

@@GailPlatt Macdonalds?

[@neuralwarp]

I agree. The govt, counties, schools, professions, etc should offer uni funding in return for scholarships.

[@TheNobbynoonar]

Gender studies and urban street dancing.

[@mediastudiesnetwork]

My two favorite gentlemen… love how they agree

[@dawnduskwinter]

16........duh.

[@ASC63Funky]

life long debt and thats what they want financial bondage. it is not about learning its about making money for the banks

[@boota1979]

@ASC63Funky Spot on! I know it's a cliché but always follow the money.

[@alangreenley3257]

in the 60,s and 70,s you had to be really bright to go to university, now its an open door" and degrees are now giving away" no wonder this country is in such a state" time machine please"

[@deannagoldston4276]

The influx of students over the last 20yrs has ruined Bournemouth generally. Housing blocks where none existed before, buildings taken over and rent bumped up. (and with only one landlord in Bournemouth locals have suffered.)

[@RupertBear412]

you re starting the argument in the middle - the question should be - why does a particular job need a degree? eg nurses or engineers - the majority of them have no need for a degree at the outset, the degree should follow as continuous development but only if really reqired

[@Dezzasheep]

The requirement of a degree for nursing, signified the drop in standard of caring. 'Too posh to wash'.

[@christinefiedor3518]

I trained in nursing via the traditional system. Firstly to gain entry into a decent teaching hospital/ college you needed highers or A levels. Entry into uni is less In my class there 3 uni graduates with degreees such as BA. All 3 were astounded at what they had learn to gain their nursing qual and declared that it was much more challenging than uni, both physically AND academically. Our principal nursing officer told us at the end of our training “over the last 3 years you have been given a very solid foundation upon which you will never cease to build”. That was so true.

[@RupertBear412]

@jamiedodger1235 funny that, been an electronics engineer for 40 years and didnt need to get a degree until I was 35 years old for promotion purposes - that degree made no difference to my professional abilities but did get me up the rank and pay structure. Strangely, I still work alongside a lot of highly professional engineers without degrees - its almost like you dont know what a real engineer is

[@smyffmawzz]

Get the Government out of Education .

[@farfartony751]

Corporatisation of universities has beena disaster in the Anglosphere. Suited the chattering class but destroyed the universities.

[@samiam6051]

The issue isn't so much pointless degrees, as much as the snobby way society has moved to a situation where just about everything needs a degree. I see sales positions requiring a 2.1 in any degree on job sites. Why? Young people now it seems are essentially required to buy £40k permit to work in an industry. That's what a lot of degrees ultimately are.

[@generaldreedle2801]

They resemble a madrasa these days.

[@Spacecowgirl78993]

yeah, anti western - terrorist supporter grounds!

[@paulstott7043]

It’s become a 3 or4 year piss up ! Then finish! couple of years in Costa coffee then back for another 5 years until your 35 and moan about the student debt. Economy can’t stand it anymore.

[@zukritzeln]

One of the biggest lies told by Blair's New Labour (apart from Iraq having WMDs) was that everyone needs to go to university to gain knowledge.

[@BlackGriffin195]

They used to be establishments of academic excellence. Most of the towns where you find them (especially the newer ones) have town centres resembling teenage binge hotspots on the Costa Brava. As for the intellect you encounter, quite frankly it is disheartening, if not horrifying.

[@user-wx6fl3pc1x]

A lot of educated fools coming out of our universities.