Unpacking Little Blue: Jacob explains re-harmonizing chords and melody

[@justinrothmusic]

What a fun conversation this was! Stay tuned for my transcription and tutorial for "Never Gonna Be Alone" coming up next. Please SUBSCRIBE to stay posted. Find all my Jacob tutorials here: bit.ly/JCtutorials

[@rachidvanheyningen]

Bruh.. I figured out why I love jacob.. like most of the things he says I already knew separately but it’s the way he connects them as if there are no rules 😮

[@justinrothmusic]

Agreed! His wisdom and holistic understanding is astounding…and he can teach! We are fortunate to witness it in real time.

[@sean4630]

Justin, I LITERALLY tripped over this and decided to watch cause it's Jacob... Everything happens for a reason. Thank you SOOOO much for having done this and asking the question you did!!! Wishing you all the Best... Cheers

[@justinrothmusic]

Thanks! It was quite the privilege to have the opportunity to ask it in the first place. It was the first nagging question I wanted to understand because it blows my mind every time it happens in his music. In each song of his that I transcribe, I get to discover the moments that open up a whole new world harmonically that I hope to bring into my own music. I also wish to make that accessible for others with my tutorials. 👍

[@randalllewis2434]

When he is playing Send in the Clown, you can see his mind working in his facial expressions!! Such a talent….

[@justinrothmusic]

He does seem to have very visceral in-the-moment reactions to music as it’s happening.

[@rudolfboukal1538]

Dear Justin. I subscribed to you some time ago - and I'm not even a guitarist! Collier is so appealing for many reasons - but my favorite is his humility and joy. I really found this interview/conversation delightful. I just want to say that you are quite wonderful yourself. As the saying goes: like unto like - and you blend right in with the depth and quality and joy and enthusiasm that Jacob so abundantly possesses. Thank you. The world of music is shifting - it makes me smile at the thought.

[@justinrothmusic]

Rudolf, Thank you for your kind words! Jacob has reignited my fire and I'm absolutely loving the process of digging in to his songs, learning, and sharing what I find. So much of what he does is still way over my head, but on guitar he's speaking my language. 😉

[@MathematicPony]

The value in this is off the charts. Thanks so much for sharing! He really voiced a feeling I've had for a long time about not necessarily requiring complex chords for reharmonization.

[@justinrothmusic]

It’s so freeing to hear that, right?! 👍 I love it.

[@JustAGuitarPlayer]

It was great to hear that Jacob was inspired by Ted Greene for some of his harmonic skills. I took some lessons from Ted Greene in the early 1980’s at the same time that I was studying guitar at USC. He wasn’t a teacher at USC but someone fortunately recommended that I take lessons from him cause at the time I was playing a lot of solo guitar pieces. Ted was an amazingly musical guitar player and is renowned and revered by many other famous guitar players including Tommy Emmanuel, Eric Johnson, Steve Lukather, session guitar legend Jay Grayson, and countless others. Ted’s one album was actually called Solo Guitar and it’s really worth checking out, it’s filled with beautiful modulations and harmonic gems. The second piece Jacob played was called “A Certain Smile” that I learned from Ted to play at my senior recital in 1985. One thing I did back in my years studying with Ted was I figured out how many ways that I could play various 3 note inversions of a simple G triad on the guitar. I think I found 88 ways (or was it 188?…) I limited myself to 3 note voicing on that study but to hear that Jacob did something similar but much more complex with 4 note chords where he kept the Eb as his bass note and the G on top and then tried every possible chord he could come up with the 15 notes that fall between. Since he’s picking out 2 additional notes out of those 15 that fall between then the result would a huge number of interesting 4 note chords some of which would “tickle’ the ears in different ways and lead him to different places/chords than where more standard diatonic harmony would have led him to. Fascinating and brilliant. It’s such a treat to live in a time to be able to witness Jacob’s musical brilliance and it’s very heartwarming to hear that Ted Greene was one of his musical inspirations. That harmonic genius flowed out of Ted as well and I agree that everyone should check out Ted’s one album Solo Guitar and all of the KZbin videos people have posted of Ted teaching or playing. Sadly he passed away and only recorded the one record (and released 4 instructional books) but his album (and many live lesson recordings people have posted) demonstrate his harmonic genius.

[@DanielBarberMusic]

Thanks for this post. I've never heard of this guy, but he was clearly a gift, if all those players you mentioned, and Jacob have been inspired by him, that's pretty amazing.

[@justinrothmusic]

That's great that you took lessons from him! Being fortunate enough to come in contact with these brilliant minds is such a gift. I just ordered Chord Chemistry and the album, and I look forward to continue to have my mind blown. I'm not a jazz guitarist myself, but a fingerstyle player. In jazz guitar ensemble in college, I used to pass every time the solo came down the line to me. 😂 I always just wanted to arrange for solo fingerstyle guitar in altered tunings. One of my mentors studied at USC around the same time you were there, @billymclaughlin. He might've been there a little after you though. My ears have always been drawing from the Michael Hedges well, but cross-pollinated with Keith Jarrett, Bill Frisell, and now Jacob. I just love that getting inside what Jacob is doing on guitar is really about triads, not multi-layered, superimposed chords. And it's NOT technical or hard to play. Granted, he hasn't been playing guitar for that long. Almost all of it is three note chords with two droning strings! It really seems like the most accessible way in to understanding certain elements of what he's doing, more so than dissecting the produced versions, or even the more elaborate piano versions. I can't wait to see what's next.

[@JustAGuitarPlayer]

@@justinrothmusic Billy McLaughlin and I were at USC at the same time. We’re the same age and we were both studio guitar majors but Billy was doing a lot of soul searching for what he wanted to do with music. I kind of remember him almost quitting the studio guitar program cause he was more interested in creating his own music than being a session guy playing on other peoples recordings. And fortunately around that time, Michael Hedges showed up on the music scene and his music inspired Billy to go in that direction and Billy started exploring that style and writing solo percussive/tapping guitar pieces. He was deep into reggae music at that time too. I remember going to a party at his apartment on Helms place in Culver City and everyone was just dancing to the reggae records that he was playing. I fell out of touch with Billy and most of my classmates but I’ve peeked into their musical lives now and then through KZbin videos or their websites. We had a small group of classmates in both the studio and classical guitar departments and I have fond memories of Billy and the others I went to school with back then. Anyway the Jacob Collier video was great and so glad I stumbled across it. Good luck with your music.

[@justinrothmusic]

@@JustAGuitarPlayer That's so great that you knew him back then. I was his road manager in the late 90s, and he still loves reggae and is still out there playing (although now as a lefty...long, interesting story). Here's his tune, entitled "Helm's Place" kzbin.info/www/bejne/nn6zp4NsaJ1_jpY

[@matthewgoldberg1461]

Funny, i was just noticing the Ted Green effect in Jacob’s new vocal arrangement of Bridge Over Troubled Water. I believe Ted was the greatest chordal guitarist ever

[@idahostudios]

YESSSS!!! So generous with his time and knowledge. What a treat for sure.

[@justinrothmusic]

Absolutely. What a treasure. Thanks for watching 👍

[@DanielBarberMusic]

Thanks for posting this nice Q&A on reharmonizing. Collier's way of thinking resonates in such an easy way, since he's focused on play and creativity and fun and the nature of sound itself rather than the theory and theoretical description of it. I got a kick out of when he picked up the guitar and bumped it a couple of times on the piano but it didn't phase him for an instant. He probably played that guitar for one or two of those Grammys sitting there, but he was focused on talking to YOU and US and that was more important to him than any ding on a guitar. Love it!

[@justinrothmusic]

You're exactly right. The humility and joy of sharing what he knows is astounding. I was also amazed how he repeatedly addressed me and my question, while also making inclusive remarks toward everyone else on the call. He doesn't get lost in talking about what he knows. He's so present and always aware of his audience, whether an individual or multiple people. I just love how, on guitar, there's an easier way to get inside of what he's doing, because it's all based on triads - not superimposed, multi-layered chords that fly by in an instant in piano or when produced on an album. Bare bones, yet all the brilliance is maintained. I can't wait for what lies ahead with all he has to share.

[@DanielBarberMusic]

@@justinrothmusic Hear! Hear!

[@EstebanTalero99]

So awesome to hear someone else loved that bit too and brought it up here in the comments!!! 10:29 That moment just speaks VOLUMES about Jacob and how he really is as an artist, but also as a person... Such humility like you say Justin... Hopefully you'll "win the lottery" again and get a chance to talk to Jacob himself in the Zoom calls (bet you already have a lot of stuff to show him - the NGBA capo tip hehe - or ask him prepared)

[@justinrothmusic]

I have a long list of geeky guitar questions waiting for the next opportunity. 👍 I felt that the Paul Davids interview only scratched the surface of what could be discussed.

[@amystraussyoga]

I really enjoyed your question on the patron stream - this was great! And I loved your videos on Jacob’s tuning.

[@justinrothmusic]

Thank you! It was a real treat to discuss with him after having spent so much time dissecting his songs and realizing there is a level of accessibility to both playing the songs on guitar, and learning how to understand what’s going on in them. Stay tuned for more Jacob tutorials!

[@erickoppa7614]

This is brilliant, Justin! Great question and such a thoughtful response from Jacob. I love this and thank you for sharing it! ❤

[@justinrothmusic]

Thanks, Eric! I was so fortunate to get to chat with him. What he shares with his patreon supporters is such a gift.

[@TheZenguitarguy]

That was awesome! It constantly astounds me how far what Ted had to offer ripples out into the world. I told Ted the story once of how I was traveling in a very remote area in Fiji and I had a copy of chord chemistry with me. At the time I was playing at night with the Local tribe, and the men playing music at night, and I actually had a guitar with me. And in the morning a young man was asking me all these questions about chords and how I was able to play along with what they were doing. I gifted him the copy of Ted's Book and Ted laughed and said "somewhere in the world, at some point, there's going to be this monstrous Fijian guitar player who knows all the chords! Lol it's amazing to hear that Jacob makes a connection because I know Ted would've loved what Mr. Collier is doing.

[@justinrothmusic]

Jacob definitely has a way of connecting all these elements from many different genres and introducing the sounds and concepts to a whole new audience. We are lucky to be alive at the same time and witnessing it as it happens. I can’t wait to see what else Jacob has to offer us all in the future.

[@TheZenguitarguy]

@@justinrothmusic He is also correct that Ted was "the man" and was at the forefront of Harmonic exploration and implementation for stringed instruments, especially guitar. I had the great good fortune to have studied with Ted for more than 25 years, and I actually recorded two tribute CDs for him. Jacob collier is a unique phenomenon in the world of music, and his explorations are stunning and inspirational, but Ted was magic, and that Jacob knew who he was is astounding and beautiful. Thank you for sharing the interview.

[@geoffwales8646]

I knew the name but couldn't place it. Now I remember that book.

[@scott001music]

Awesome conversation Justin! Can't wait to see more of your vids unpacking his music... Just a brilliant musical mind!!! Hope to see you soon!!!

[@justinrothmusic]

Hey Scott! Hope Chicago is treating you well. Jacob is mind-blowing and a truly inspiring.

[@audioware1]

Brilliant conversation with Jacob!!! Ted Greene aka "Chord chemist" was one of the most inspirational players and brilliant mind ever existed. No mystery Jacob digs him so much, he was a true master.

[@justinrothmusic]

Thank you! It was a true privilege to have the opportunity to ask my question. This was my first exposure to Ted, but I've already bought "Chord Chemistry." I can't wait to dig in. 👍

[@WaZaaap6]

Jacobs "Little Blue" is a masterpiece

[@justinrothmusic]

Agreed! I can’t wait to see what’s next from him.

[@Jefffranzen]

How cool. Good for you and as always Jacob incredibly kind and gracious with his time and focus on you and your question.

[@justinrothmusic]

He was gracious, indeed! I hope to get the chance to ask/interview him more in depth about all things guitar-related in the future! 🤞

[@ScottDercksGuitarist]

Nice to see a genius like Jacob acknowledge the Genius of Ted Greene. Ted is one of the few musicians that has brought me to tears with his playing. Thanks for spreading the gospel of Ted, Jacob. He is, indeed, the Man.

[@justinrothmusic]

It’s so special when we find those artists with the power to stir not only our ears, but our hearts and minds too. Jacob is obviously tuned in to the best. 👍

[@johningram2153]

I'm glad to know of Ted Greene. Great recommendation. Not that it matters, but his one album is actually called "Solo Guitar," but since he only had one, it's not like it would be difficult to find :). Thanks Justin for the interview. I'm curious how it happened.

[@justinrothmusic]

I wish there was more than one record, but I’ll take what I can get to hear more of Ted. I am a member of Jacob‘s Patreon and he does a monthly zoom call with the group. Www.patreon.com/JCollierMusic

[@johningram2153]

@@justinrothmusic oh, so it was well-edited segment of a Q&A. That explains what Jacob said about the schedule having changed. Thanks. What a great opportunity. I’m a Patreon user also. Not sure if I have ever supported him there.

[@justinrothmusic]

@johningram2153 yes, there were about 80 of us on the call and I got lucky enough to be able to ask one question and have him go so in-depth with his answer. That was our conversation in full just cut out of context of the rest of the call.

[@nomannic1]

Your questions were incredibly well informed, this was a wonderful interview!! I had a lot of questions about the chord shapes on the 5 string, as well as why Jacob uses certain harmonic options, all which was answered here!!

[@justinrothmusic]

I’m so glad to hear it! There are cases where the five string definitely make it easier for him to play, considering how he uses the drones/pedal notes. That pesky G wouldn’t work over nearly as many chords, not being the tonic or the fifth of the home key, and he’d have to be a lot more specific and precise with his right hand. It was a thrill to chat with him, and I look forward to digging into more songs to see what else I can uncover. Thanks for tuning in!

[@ardlight172]

This is fantastic, thank you!

[@justinrothmusic]

You’re welcome! Stay tuned for more tutorials, and if I’m REALLY LUCKY, more chats with Jacob. 👍

[@kevindorcy]

Great interview. Please do many more...w/ JC!

[@justinrothmusic]

Thanks! If I can be so lucky, I certainly have more questions for him. 👍 Stay tuned for more Jacob guitar tutorials.

[@duncanballantyne7676]

amazing stuff, thanks for that. thank god for Jacob.

[@justinrothmusic]

15 solid minutes of drinking from the music theory fire hose. 👍

[@randalllewis2434]

Even when JC is answering at what he feels is a dumbed down way, he is still so far above most people’s heads…. LOLOL. Good for you on getting a private audience with him!!!!

[@justinrothmusic]

I agree, but I sure love having the replay to unpack it in slow-mo to give my brain a chance to catch up. I can only dream of having answers like that at the tip of my tongue.

[@randalllewis2434]

@@justinrothmusic thx for the reply Justin..

[@justinrothmusic]

@@randalllewis2434 you bet! I love interacting with people about the music.

[@johnpanfili1062]

ughh I missed this one for a jazz lesson lol. Awesome question excited for the next zoom hang!

[@justinrothmusic]

I definitely still got my “jazz” lesson from this conversation! See you next time. 👍

[@fretlessman71]

Good lord, what a brilliant musical mind.

[@justinrothmusic]

i know, right!? Everything he says has so much wisdom and depth to it. I'm learning so much and loving it.

[@jasondimatteo983]

Great question, great answer, well done.

[@justinrothmusic]

Thank you! I couldn’t believe how in-depth he went with me in such a short amount of time. He is such a gem.

[@jasondimatteo983]

@@justinrothmusic For real, you can tell he just enjoys it all so much! I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that he has such a sophisticated and unique approach to guitar, since he is that way with every instrument! Ha, I am a bass player, and I would be a fan of his if all he did was play bass (he's a monster!).

[@justinrothmusic]

@@jasondimatteo983 His guitar arrangements are sophisticated harmonically, but his technique is not overly complex when it comes to playing. He admits that he doesn't have a lot of technique when it comes to his right hand fingerpicking. His arrangements don't really utilize true "fingerstyle" technique, in that he's not picking out independent melodies, bass lines, etc. So, as a guitar player, people are able to learn the three note chord shapes and then can adapt the song to be fingerpicked or strummed at whatever level they are at with their right hand. That's why I love his approach so much. This is the gateway to getting inside his songs without needing to be a masterful player. We get all the signature Jacobean flavors in the chords themselves, and yet we don't have to be overly technical with our right hand. Those poor piano players who try to learn his piano arrangements will be working far harder than us guitar players. 😂 We only have to deal with 5 notes at a time, and they are never big stretches because of the altered tuning he's in.

[@jasondimatteo983]

@@justinrothmusic Exactly, I wasn't implying that his technique is challenging physically, just that it is sophisticated (harmonically) and unique (never seen someone play a 5-string guitar, tuned that way, and play triads on the lower strings around higher pedal points). Thanks again for getting him going!

[@justinrothmusic]

@@jasondimatteo983 no matter what it is, it’s just so exciting! 🤯

[@BestFitSquareChannel]

Brilliant! Thank you. Best wishes. 🌞🤸🏽‍♂️🫶🏼🖖🏼✌🏼

[@justinrothmusic]

You're welcome! Stay tuned for more @jacobcollier tutorials coming soon.

[@fretlessman71]

8:20 - Another way to restate what Jacob is saying (to unpack it a bit further) is to say that if you take a dim7 chord, and lower any of the notes in that chord by a half step, that new note is now the ROOT of a dominant 7th chord. You can easily see this on guitar - play a chord shape as such: XX4545, or Bdim7. If you lower any note by a fret, you will find a recognizable dom7 chord shape, with the note you moved becoming the root.

[@fretlessman71]

And a dom7 chord wants to resolve in a V -> I fashion.

[@justinrothmusic]

Exactly. I was going to put an on-screen visual for that part too, but it just goes by so fast, I figured it would be too much. There was so much to take already. 😂

[@leonardorusso8035]

thank you from italy for this content ❤

[@justinrothmusic]

You’re welcome! I hope his answer opens a lot of doors for people in their own music.

[@EyalZeidman770]

Beautiful milking the genius of our era❤ We can see the say more than the calf (us) wants to eat the cow (Jacob )wants to feed in this video. Thanks a lot man❤❤❤

[@justinrothmusic]

You’re welcome! It was a real treat to talk with him.

[@efficientguitarlessons]

You should get Chord Chemistry by Ted Greene. One page is enough to humble the most obnoxious jazz nerd. Evertything that man did was gold. My personal favorite track is Ol´ man river. Great video!

[@justinrothmusic]

I looked up the book, but knew I didn’t have the bandwidth right now to do a deep dive on jazz guitar. It’s on my radar for when I’m not neck-deep in Jacob’s tunes. 😂 I’m getting the album though, for sure!

[@efficientguitarlessons]

@@justinrothmusic Just stealing a few chord voicings and progressions will be fun!. I saw a video of Jacob explaining that he said that any note in a melody can be harmonized with ANY chord, since that given note will always be related to a chord somehow, a C can be the perfect 5th in F triad, or a b13 in E7b13. If you think this way you can come up with very weird non diatonic reharmonizations like him, especially if you do 3 or 4 chords for only one note. In your video he is saying the same thing with other words, that he tried all combinations within an 8ve, and then he goes with his ear in terms of taste. Negative harmony can result also in some unusual chords (you can get those chords from other places as well, but the concept may be worth exploring).

[@justinrothmusic]

Agreed! I have been starting with looking for a held melody note, then, trying other chords as if that notice the root, third or fifth, or minor third or seventh, just as a starting place. Chances are the original underlying chord was already one of those, but that opens up 4 to 5 other options and it’s a good way in to starting to apply these concepts. 👍

[@efficientguitarlessons]

@@justinrothmusic I was just watching Rick Beato´s interview with Jimmy Webb and I remembered our conversation, in the minute 18:20 he shares some insight about the subject kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGnTg353nLKUhpY us guitarists (me at least) need to get into some piano, there is so much more going on there.

[@justinrothmusic]

@@efficientguitarlessons That was great! On piano, you have access to move those bass notes so much more freely than on guitar. I’m not a piano player either, for better or worse, but I love independent lines between bass and melody, and I incorporate it as often as I can on guitar. 👍

[@TheRealBrandonMcDuff]

I did a choir arrangement of sky above that we did at my undergraduate college, and I remember my choir director at rehearsal saying, "anyone wanna guess what's weird about the chord in the third bar?" No one knew so he said "it's in second inversion, that's a mistake, that's not common for a reason" Now, this man is a brilliant musician, but closing yourself off to a chord like that is so crazy to me just because it's not what Mozart would've done

[@justinrothmusic]

That's cool that you did a choir arrangement. I'd love to do "O World, O World" with a choir. I love all those crunchy chords! It's too bad your director had such a "traditional" interpretation of what was "wrong" with the music, but if you come up with only one school of thought, then it must be difficult to see outside of that box. Glad you got to do it anyway! Jacob LOVES those inversions. I like how he describes 2nd inversion chords as "home, but away" or "perching."

[@GanjaGabe]

Get ted greens books they are staples of jazz harmony and he literally the book

[@justinrothmusic]

I just did! Time to dig in. 👍

[@JesseNorellMusic]

Wow! This is amazing, Justin! How did this even come about?

[@justinrothmusic]

Thanks! It’s part of his monthly Patreon zoom hangs. If you’re a Patreon member, he hosts a group call every month. I’m just about to get on another one with him now. You never know if you’ll get the chance to ask a question or not. I just lucked out last time. Check out patreon.com/JCollierMusic

[@JesseNorellMusic]

@@justinrothmusic very coo! Enjoy your hang with Jacob!

[@JesseNorellMusic]

@@justinrothmusic So you know that thing he does where he plays the same note on the piano followed by every possible chord that could go with it? How would one do that on the guitar? I'd love to see a video on that.

[@justinrothmusic]

@JesseNorellMusic Great idea. As he said, it is harder to do on guitar than on piano, because you have to change your fingering each time and some chords can be a lot harder to reach than others. I’ll see what I can put together. I’ve got a few other videos lined up next, but I’ll add this to my list. Thanks for the suggestion!

[@duncanjones7310]

dagh is that a good time mandocello in the back , damn i always wanted one

[@duncanjones7310]

gold tone*

[@justinrothmusic]

@jacobcollier recently got the mandocello from his mom. He played it a little bit on earlier on the zoom call. Just what he needs, another instrument to master. :-)

[@thedigitalsnake]

genius

[@justinrothmusic]

Yes he is! I can’t believe how quickly his mind works. There’s so much to learn in those 15 minutes. Thanks for watching. 👍

[@washedtoohot]

What the frick, how do I even begin understanding the stuff Jacob is saying?

[@justinrothmusic]

I know, it’s a lot, and he can talk fast about very complicated things. The take away that I hope you get, if you’re a guitar player, is that his guitar arrangements are a far simpler entry point into understanding what he is doing harmonically. Even just solo piano has so many layers and superimposed harmonies, while on guitar, he’s really only fretting three notes at a time. On the subject of re-harmonizing chords, that’s a much denser subject, but he’s basically saying that for any melody note, he comes up with multiple options for chords by simply changing the function of that melody note within the chord. Most basically, it could be the root, the third or the fifth. After that it could be the minor third, the seventh, etc. of some other chord, and that is how he finds a pivot point to get to a new chord, progression or modulation. I’m still wrapping my head around it as well, but if you can understand the method of what he’s doing even before you know how to put it into practice, that is step one of wrapping your head around it. Good luck!

[@s4mwize]

which song is he playing in the very beginning?

[@justinrothmusic]

The background music while I’m doing my introduction is “Little Blue“ from the Mahogany Sessions video.

[@s4mwize]

@@justinrothmusic Thanks Justin!

[@smartasss6117]

Jacob dare sharing his secret recipe, cuz no one yet can imitate

[@justinrothmusic]

It’s pretty special to have him share so much, but it doesn’t mean that any of it’s going to come intuitively for most of us… At least not for a long time. 😂 Thanks for watching!