Unpacking The "Body Fascism" Twitter Discourse

[@TheBurgerkrieg]

in fairness, Plato was known to be a fucking obelisk of a man

[@Queuexdodge]

love your stuff.

[@inciiopath]

yo I know this guy

[@Ghostdesuu]

holy shit burger

[@Greyinkling276]

Plato was literally his nickname, which he got as a professional wrestler. Plato means "broad" because hs was a hulk.

[@vidyagaems4063]

Still mentally ill enough not to be a normie and not in top 10% of attractiveness. Cancelled.

[@SaHaRaSquad]

A: "lift some weights and if you're disabled work within your limits" B: "a hypothetical comatose paralyzed quadruple amputee can't lift weights, you're a fascist for not mentioning that edge case"

[@Slashx92]

The whole thread in a comment. Thank you

[@seangallagher9435]

Yeah when Hasan said to workout what he wanted was forcing everyone with osteoporosis to squat 405 with no spotter til failure 7 days a week

[@vipira1001]

Most comment I've seen who were not stupid took offense with the part Vaush skipped over, which was "everyone who isn't able to lift their own weight is a weight to be carried" (don't remember the exact phrasing) which is an ableist sentiment and stupid. When we start considering some people like deadweight, we're not leftist anymore.

[@Luke-pp2lw]

@@Slashx92except the first tweet coated the good advice in some very cringy larp

[@user-vx3cq3ym7r]

@@seangallagher9435While maybe too high intensity is bad, squatting with added weight is actually good for people with osteoporosis.

[@cdcdrr]

"Plato and Aristotle were mentally ill losers" My boy Diogenes, as always, excluded from this arguement because he's a perfect picture of mental sanity and scathing common sense attacks on the politically-brained idiots.

[@westernohio]

diogenes will always be the littest most mentally stable person to exist

[@unsoundfoxly]

If I were not me I would want to be Diogenes

[@benjaminjameskreger]

*bursts into the academy holding a plucked chicken* "IS THIS YOUR MAN?!" Plato: "...broad toed bipedal creature"

[@aoeuable]

@@benjaminjameskreger Somewhat disappointingly, "broad nailed featherless biped" is actually accurate: Of all the animals only primates have broad nails, featherless is redundant, and we're the only habitually bipedal primate.

[@codegeass7162]

it's funny cause at least Plato was a wrestler and was probably both well-off and fit.

[@theorangeninja6486]

"even if you're disabled, work out however much you can, it's good for you" "wow this is literally fascism, don't you know I was born with glass bones and paper skin? every morning I break my legs, and every afternoon I break my arms. at night, I lie awake in agony until my heart attacks put me to sleep. how am I supposed to work out, huh?"

[@thoroughsix999]

Unironically this is how these people sound like

[@mckenzie.latham91]

to be fair though Hassan is Champagne socialist so he brings a lot of this on himself it’s hard for under pillaged people to take advice seriously from a guy who says capitalism and consumer culture is bad while he spots videos where he’s swag dancing around his new 150-200k luxury sportscar or when he says “just work out guys” while he has a customized workout room in his 3-4 million dollar gated mansion where he literally can take an hour or two from streaming to hang out in his work room or at his heated outside field sized pool given Hassan’s take that streaming is the more soul sucking job than any workers job this stuff just feels inherently entitled.

[@billclockwell]

​@@mckenzie.latham91these people were not responding to him though

[@theorangeninja6486]

@@mckenzie.latham91 I don't think there's any excuse to discount this advice on the basis of who it comes from, that's just a genetic fallacy. I also think Hasan gets way too much shit for his wealth from people who unironically buy into the conservative strawman that socialists hate wealth itself. It has never been the amount of money one has that the left should be having a problem with, rather the method by which it is acquired, and as far as I know all of hasan's money comes from his own labor. That being said, he's not very good at managing it optically, and he could do to stop being such a consoomer, it's not good for him or his image

[@mckenzie.latham91]

@@billclockwell I never said they were, but let’s not pretend like this is Hassan's first mess up with this out of touch stuff.

[@jakuth99]

I mean, even if they’re larpy about it, the general advice of “You should work out; even if you have a disability or little free time you can still exercise to the best of your ability” is good advice. I have cerebral palsy and I try and work out. The only reason I don’t is because of a dumb mental barrier about how I can’t work out as much as I want to Edit: Also I’ve said it before and I’ve said it again: leftists attach things they dislike to systemic issues to justify their dislike

[@misgivingz7194]

I think some people are just triggered by it. My illnesses were ignored for 7 years because I'm overweight. I was just told to work out when I actually needed medical care. So maybe these people were just tired of hearing something a lot of disabled people hear instead of actually being diagnosed.

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

​@@misgivingz7194 fair but none of them articulated that sentiment as well as you did

[@misgivingz7194]

I think what they said had a grain of truth to it. My issue was as a result of systemic problems within medicine. That is something leftists should be addressing. They just took it super far to an extreme

[@jakuth99]

@@misgivingz7194 I’m not going to speculate on your health but a lot of health issues can be exacerbated by being overweight even if it’s not the root cause and doctors probably aren’t going to immediately recommend surgeries or medicine as a first resort

[@gryph0n55]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@misgivingz7194that’s a fair point. But ultimately it’s still good advice. Working out is still a good thing that pretty much objectively does help reduce the negative affects of being overweight, even if it’s not the MAIN thing wrong with you. Likewise, it’s unfortunate you weren’t given the treatment you needed and were just hand waved away, but I also can’t fault doctors for assuming something that 9 times out of 10 is the cause of something would be the cause of something. May I ask if it’s not too personal, did you lose weight with the diagnosis that your problems were due to being overweight? Did you take that advice, fix that issue, then confirm that it wasn’t the cause? Or did you assume or have a feeling that wasn’t the issue and just turn out to be right in the end? Because I used to work with someone that was overweight who had heart issues and they swore it wasn’t because they were overweight it was because of a genetic history, but after multiple tests/scans and a heart attack there was nothing found beyond them being overweight so they eventually lost a good chunk of the weight and it turned out they were wrong and it was just being overweight. Obviously that wasn’t the case for you, but was that something you went through to confirm it wasn’t or something that you happened to be right about?

[@ninjasheep7492]

I’m obese, out of shape, and disabled both mentally and physically. Ran half a mile out of spite. Terrible time and almost threw up, but maybe next time I’ll be a bit faster or go a bit farther.

[@Mae_Dastardly]

Massive respect, careful not to push yourself too far in one session tho it's good to push yourself but the recovery time from an injury hurts more than that last stretch of going past your limit helps. Praying for your continued success brother

[@Blackgriffonphoenixg]

Keep it up, you should be proud of your achievement: Even deciding to start is a victory!

[@quorryraphael9980]

Pace yourself. Don't go so hard you get hurt and can't keep a positive habit

[@hefdef9961]

If you threw up you probably ran too much but you have the spirit

[@Nerobyrne]

Awesome! I'm proud of you, even though I have no idea who you are ^^ I can tell you from experience that it does get easier quickly, keep it up!

[@mayhemamigos4766]

Anarchist here, I have worked with a lot of leftist orgs, and I have never seen this mentality irl, this is strictly a twitter thing.

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

No really, workout Culture was a big thing in Naz1 Germany. Unironically. Obviously working out is not bad but it is not solely a “muh evil twitter leftist thing” it’s a Historical Precedent that people don’t want to be shamed for something they can’t/don’t want to do.

[@julianbell9161]

@@jakespacepiratee3740you are part of the problem. What the fuck are you even talking about? It’s bad to recommend that someone works out because the Nazis liked working out and this is very tangentially related? What the fuck are you even saying?

[@devi---]

Oh thank fuck

[@knighter1209]

@@jakespacepiratee3740 you should always motivate yourself to work out by reminding yourself that a fascist had also worked out that day.

[@veryscaryreaper8883]

It's because 99% of these people haven't gone outside because "i'm a disabled depressed autistic xenogender polyamorous furry, so i know the secret truth that going outside is fascism"

[@TMmodify]

As a depressed person with multiple mental disorders, exercising is an incredible boost to my mood, self esteem, body image and ability to manage my hyperactivity. However, knowing how to have a mentally healthy approach to it requires time. Not beating yourself up over occasionally being unable to go, doing it with trusted friends, picking a sport that's enjoyable to you in and of itself etc...

[@Coolguysup]

Exactly this. I started going after falling into a particularly bad depressive episode. My friend encouraged me to go with him using his guest passes. It helped me out a lot.

[@d3nza482]

Bruce Springsteen talks about working out for hours on his rowing machine just to be able to fall asleep while wrestling with depression in his 60s. He actually struggled with it his whole life, having his first drink well into his 30s cause he was afraid he'd become a violent alcoholic like his father. That side of his family had other undiagnosed mental illnesses.

[@WASDLeftClick]

I find it incredibly uncomfortable, embarrassing, and anxiety-inducing to work out around other people period. Sports is a big part of childhood trauma for me too, man this gonna take decades.

[@TMmodify]

@@WASDLeftClick I'm really sorry to hear that. there's no rush when it comes to self improvement, slow progress is still progress okay ? A personal coach could go a long way with some of the stuff you've mentioned, I suppose doing hatha yoga alone could help with proprioception, confidence and body image without too much effort, and doing your 6000-10000 steps a day is also already very good for you. but even then it's up to you know whether overcoming those specific insecurities is something you can mentally afford to prioritize now. No matter which direction you're taking I'm convinced the best is ahead of you

[@WASDLeftClick]

@@TMmodify Hy thanks. Don't mind my moping too much though. I refer more to self improvement in general, I'm actually pretty okay with my body image besides knowing I'm a bit out of shape and could benefit from exercise, therefore feeling shame for not doing the thing I know is good for me. I'm not very happy about slow progress, it makes me feel like I'm not doing enough and ashamed of that.

[@Southboundpachyderm]

Vaush is absolutely correct and I warn all of you that you can lose 10 years of your life sitting in your room just like that. I let trauma overcome me, and it only got better when I loved myself enough to go to therapy and work every day on myself. I lost 170 pounds since last year, I’m back in school and every day I fucking hate getting up and I still make mistakes and get lazy. But the difference is that if I fail today, tomorrow I go try again. When you just accept failure and don’t do anything to make your life better, you become a miserable cunt that most people aren’t going to want to have anything to do with. Get up tomorrow and try again. It’s all you fuckin can do. But you can’t just quit. You don’t get to quit and expect other people to carry you. They won’t because they can’t. No one can love you until you love you. That’s the best advice I ever got. I’m 30 years old, and all I can do is get up and try to do more than I did the day before. I don’t expect perfection out of myself, but I don’t set my bar where it was the day before either. Otherwise what’s the fucking point? You gunna sit and be miserable and waste 10 years like I did? Or are you going to do the hard thing and try again?

[@RatPfink66]

I don't hear the love.

[@dorianleakey]

This could work as poetry, delivered like a rant, starting slow.

[@sunflight4521]

Man, talking about the differences between lethargic leisure days and productive leisure days really made me realize how much better I feel when I actually do something on my days off, like reading my book or working on my cross stitch projects, and even better on days I get to hang out with friends, vs me just scrolling Twitter and just watching KZbin videos all day. Huh.

[@lmaoashley]

"Isn't it weird how the disability rate on left-twitter is 100%?" I hate how true this is 💀

[@pllpsy665]

Disability rate is 100% on 100% of Twitter. it's all tarded.

[@marcomoreno6748]

Diagnosis.

[@mrgaudy1954]

Being on Twitter is in itself a disability.

[@robinvik1]

"Isn't it weird how the disability rate on left-twitter is 100%?" - says the leftist who literally can't work out because of his costochondritis

[@JohnDoe-jp4em]

Instant classic.

[@gaphic]

I think ‘self discipline’ is generally taken to mean ‘forcing yourself to do things that are unpleasant,’ when the real path to self-improvement is teaching yourself to ENJOY and DESIRE healthy habits. Don’t force yourself to work out! Mentally disassociate ‘exercise’ from struggle/pain/embarrassment/failure, find an activity that is actually fun for you, and all of a sudden you won’t need ‘discipline’ because you’ll sincerely WANT to exercise

[@DowncastParadox]

There's a widespread believe that quite literally everyone will _eventually_ enjoy exercise - they "just" need to find "their" sport/activity and/or keep at it for long enough. But I'd argue that the people who struggle the most are the ones that are most likely to be physically incapable of enjoying it. In my experience, physical exercise is *always* unpleasant. Sure, there are ways to make it more _tolerable_ - but it's the equivalent of taking pain medication to make an intrinsically painful experience less so.

[@katobytes]

@@DowncastParadox What have you tried doing? I used to think this way as well as I hated sports as a kid, but eventually stumbled on something myself

[@vaughnhaney7020]

I often want to exercise because I tend to forget just how awful it feels. I have a neuromuscular disease that means I pretty much can't build muscle beyond reversing atrophy to a more normal level, and exercise is ALWAYS excruciatingly painful, even with treatment. It's still good for me because it staves off the degeneration, but it will NEVER be enjoyable, and unfortunately I don't have the resilience to stick to it consistently. I'm not gonna act like telling me to exercise would be ABLEIST cos that's silly, but it is true that my disability makes it impossible to enjoy it. It's crushing because when I do find exercise I enjoy, I have to grapple with my inability to actually do it because the first time I try it I spend the next few days struggling to even breathe. Plus I'm so weak that I basically just fail at everything...

[@gaphic]

@@DowncastParadox @vaughnhaney7020 not to be rude, but like. Did I actually have the clarify that ‘mentally disassociate exercise from pain and find something you enjoy’ doesn’t apply to people with rare medical conditions that make literally all physical movement painful? Like, was it unreasonable for me to assume people would understand that I wasn’t saying ‘literally all humans just need to find ‘their’ sport’?

[@gaphic]

@@vaughnhaney7020 did I actually need to clarify that my comment wasn’t directed at people with rare conditions that make exercise physically impossible?

[@DPH-sp9vt]

"Isn't it weird how the disability rate on left twitter is 100%" lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[@amorpaz1]

And they ALL have rare, undiagnosed invisible disabilities that prevent them from doing anything and the entire world has to know about it

[@vanessaashford9203]

not only is the disability rate 100%, it's all absolutely incurable, permanent disabilities that prevent them from doing literally anything they don't want to do.

[@DPH-sp9vt]

@@vanessaashford9203 oh believe me ik

[@elizabethbennet4791]

A billion % true tho.

[@elizabethbennet4791]

​@@vanessaashford9203do ppl like this want to be fat and lonely forever? I mean

[@fatcat22able]

Leftists will say that giving workout advice is ableist to the physically disabled. But 1) how many of y’all actually have a debilitating physical disability, and 2) even for people who are physically disabled, doctors recommend doing physical therapy and going outside as much as possible. It’s the whiny attitude above all else that I dislike.

[@mememachine-386]

Everyone who calls me ableist for telling them to take a walk needs to send me pics of their wheelchair and/or walking cane.

[@Nuvizzle]

Doctors? You mean Board Certified Fascists?

[@Mae_Dastardly]

Too many leftists think being lazy is a debilitating illness that can't be worked around, even though most people alive are lazy and the very act of participating in society is them working around their laziness to survive

[@d3tuned378]

​@@mememachine-386why are you telling people to take a walk?

[@d3tuned378]

​@@Nuvizzlepretending there isn't a cultural problem with doctors, I see

[@Alias_Anybody]

Honestly, the claim that either working out or not working out is leftist gives me an aneurysm. It should be "do whatever the f*ck you want if it doesn't hurt others".

[@Nuvizzle]

Sure, but we're not "do whatever you want just leave me the hell alone" libertarians. We should still advocate for things that help people, and exercise helps people.

[@Alias_Anybody]

@@Nuvizzle Talking about something helping you and writing a manifesto about what everyone should do IYO are two different things. Evangelizing is obnoxious.

[@Ellipsi184]

@@NuvizzleThis sounds like what the right wing anti sjws say about the body positivity movement.

[@sorrycashonly5651]

@lMoon I think that's slightly better than telling a 300 lb obese person that they are fine and they can do whatever they want. Some people have empathy and genuinely want to help others, instead of pretending to care while encouraging others to their deathbeds

[@mookiestewart3776]

@@Nuvizzlethat’s fine but it has literally nothing to do with being a leftist

[@alexhubble]

27:36 - you can be disciplined without being a member of the SS. True fact.

[@GrinnVision]

Agreed that living healthier is descriptively better than living unhealthy and that general advice like "Hey, you should be physically active" is broadly healthy and true BUT the language of the original tweet included that "There is no excuse not to do something to strengthen your body daily" which directly implies moral failing otherwise. If someone claims that there are descriptively healthy ways to live and that prescriptions to live healthy are morally good, I think that can be agreed with in the same breath that the implicit moral condemnation for failing the expressly illustrated standard in the tweet can be disagreed with.

[@svaira]

Why would it be prescriptively better though? This is the issue. There is no moral argument for it, unless you already believe that being able to do more things is good in itself. Moralizing health, or similarly, declaring self harm immoral, is one of those things I seriously don't understand. Why not simply limit prescriptive morality to where it actally works - to questions of morality that are about not hurting others?

[@svaira]

(I would also say that I make a difference between ethics and morality here. It makes sense to be a part of your personal ethos; but morality - prescribing a behavior to others - is about what you can actually demand from others, what it would be immoral for others not to do.) Also, I assume if you're an consequentialist, especially a utilitarian, than the argument would somewhat make sense; I just don't think that utilitarianism should be on that level adopted as societal morality, as otherwise it can be easily used to justify banning / forcing people to do various things based on faulty calculations of a utility function.

[@FelisImpurrator]

​@@svairaI think this works if your ethical system mainly concerns itself with supererogatory and not obligatory prescriptions, and falls apart the moment you bring in moral duty arguments. "It is good to physically or mentally better yourself" is an entirely defensible statement. "You should do that" is more questionable because it implies a moral imperative. And "You have to do that" is an imposition of moral authoritarianism that's really the issue we're dealing with here. I'd argue that the latter form is incompatible with utilitarianism because moral duty is itself a harmful framework, but that's some complicated meta-ethics (I have a discord and a twitter for that conversation, unless you're explicitly interested in reading more here.) I think if your implicit standard is purely supererogatory and not punitive, like, your moral standard is constructed in such a way that when you say "hey, you should do x" it can already be assumed that the corollary is "but if you can't, that's alright" - then sure, it's good to say "yeah, you should stay hydrated and do some stretches". If the other person doesn't have that shared assumption (and they likely won't if they need the encouragement, because of the culture of shame underlying many of these problems), though, then it's just not useful. People underestimate just how common background trauma and internalized shame are, even though it's arguably the primary cultural ill of American society (among others).

[@FelisImpurrator]

​@@svairaActually, though, I think I've heard that morality and ethics are kind of the other way around, morals are individual and ethics are systemic. I think I'm fine with just starting from the premise of "well-being is good" as an arbitrary axiom, simply because it's a practical one to adopt - so I think if you don't reject that axiom (and if you do, all ethical discourse is immediately reduced to the rock), then it is indeed good for people to be able to do more things and self-harm is consequentially not good. That doesn't have ANY bearing on whether to morally judge an individual for not practicing self-care or engaging in self-harm. I think that's a bad thing to do because it really just objectively doesn't help anyone - it's shaming and that has an adverse effect on well-being. Positive incentives and solutions to get people to self-improve or not self-harm (like, say, by addressing underlying sources of distress) are good to provide. But the threat of "you're Bad if you don't do this or fail at this" has never made anyone's life better; in fact it's the primary cause for a lot of people's lives being worse.

[@svaira]

@@FelisImpurratorThank you for the long response. I agree that the terms "morality" and "ethics" are sometimes used differently against each other, this might be a question of discipline or of language/dialect etc. I think there might be a more neutral distinction, namely between value theory and decision theory. What I mean by that, is that it is a different thing to say "X is good" and "one should do X", not because of differences of situation, but because they simply cannot be true about the same thing. For example: In the case discussed, one can say "well-being is good", or more clearly, "the aspect of gaining well-being through work-out/physical therapy is good". But that is a very different statement from saying "one should work out". Because, there can also be other aspects of the same thing. For example: one can also say "the aspect of being tired out in work-out is bad". Because of that, one needs to make a prioritization, and actually make a decision based on these contradictory aspects. And then one can say: "You should do X"; but that is then precisely not a statement about one of those aspects, but about the action as a whole. This is much more clearer in actual moral paradoxes. For example: Should one steal medicine to save someones life? Value theory gives four correct judgements: Life saving is good, letting someone die bad; stealing is bad, not stealing good. But they don't make a decision. For that decision, I need to prioritize between them. And if I do so - and I think I have a good reason to do so - I say: I should; or I shouldn't. This is how I read "should" statements, and why I try to be more careful about these opposing aspects in the thing being talked about. If for example the aspect of being tired or annoyed by work out can lead to things like self harm, that is an important factor, similar to how eating candy can be preventative of more substantial self harm also etc. This is why the value judgement alone does not give a personal ethos or a societal morality, and why I think it's incomplete if stated without these priorities. Another thing I sometimes think about is how value is also itself relational. That is: the aspect of well-being being good is a good-for, a goodness not in itself, but for a certain principle. That is not meant as a statment of "means for an end"; but for saying that practical value, beauty, justice, or truth, are all different forms of "the good". There is a sort of structural monotheistic principle at hand when there is this equivocation of "good" without this relation; a presupposition that what's good for Dike is good for Aphrodite, if you will. I am just more sceptical for that, and think these different "goods", as much as they may be related, still are not the same. And in a way, the prioritizations that I talked about then are preferences; like a preference of Ares (strength, well-being) over Eros (desire, also desire to be a bit lazy etc.), while both in their own right are "good". And yes, I agree with the points you made against shaming, even for a prioritization of health it makes sense to be more careful. I am just trying to explain that this preference is a choice - not a bad one, but one that should be stated, at least unless you actually belief that there is an objective moral preference here, in which case I guess this would be more a difference in faith than a theoretical dispute. But I hope we can both realize that we make these prioritizations, and that it maybe can clear up talking about what's "good" and how we can demand that from others (which I also, I have to admit, was not clear enough about originally)

[@Crazywaffle5150]

Exercising has no negative effect on other people.

[@psychopompous489]

Then you're doing it wrong. No pain (of others); no gain.

[@SylvanasWindrunnerResurrected]

Unless you have severe hypertension. Then it'll literally kill you.

[@spacegirlfriend42069]

You mean I'm not supposed to fling the dumbells at everyone else in the gym?

[@Mae_Dastardly]

Counterpoint: I take advantage of my physique to mog right wing incels, which has a negative effect on them by making them look less manly

[@thepulp80s]

If you work out and are strong, then the weak will feel upset by being near you and therefore it does massive morale damage to them and will reset them back to it the last save

[@amorpaz1]

Twitter leftists taking learned helplessness to an absurd extreme? Sounds like Tuesday!

[@ajplays-gamesandmusic4568]

Can't wait for Elon to completely tank that platform. Hopefully Tumblr sticks around, and doesn't go back to being extremely puritanical.

[@vanessaashford9203]

this whole thing sort of reminds me of these two irl friends of mine who really went off the deep end during the pandemic, and like, as far as I can tell, are literally planning on never leaving their house again because of covid. This is only an option for them because one of them works from home and because they live in someone else's guest house where they currently aren't being asked to pay rent for complicated reasons, but yeah, they're in for a pretty rude awakening once their current situation changes in any way at all. The thing is, neither of them are immunocompromised, one of them *is* pretty overweight, but also like only 26 and without any other pre-existing conditions (and of course this person also thinks exercise is evil). And the thing about all this is, like I'd be more sympathetic if they were following news about covid or doing the bare minimum to protect themselves in the eventuality that they do have to go out and interact with the real world again, but they're literally not even up to date on their vaccines, I think they never even got their boosters because it was too scary for them to go out or something? Meanwhile, I'm fully vaccinated, and the one time I got covid it was just like mild cold symptoms for me, probably partly *because* I've been so diligent about vaccines. The learned helplessness shit among the uwu leftist crowd is absolutely insane and terrifying, like it's literally going to get these people killed eventually if they don't learn to be actual responsible adults on even the most basic level.

[@الفيلسوفأبوفكرالزنديق]

tumblr is going down the drain too @@ajplays-gamesandmusic4568

[@maxwessel7786]

I remember getting dog piled for being unsympathetic to “ally fatigue”, and being painted as using right wing rhetoric because I earnestly said I viewed “ally fatiguwu” as weakness. It kinda dawned on me that alot of the left had come to characterize the very ideas of strength and resilience as right wing. That is an extremely dangerous philosophical pitfall. So it’s not just a physicality thing here.

[@AnonJuggerbot]

Nietzsche would have called it 'slave morality'; Their morality is based on interpreting everything their enemy espouses as ontologically evil, even if those things aren't inherently evil. What you end up with is people who value nothing but themselves and claim it moral.

[@d3tuned378]

Gladly I know no Leftists like you describe

[@resir9807]

Yeah agreed. Leftism needs a kick in the nuts from Nietzsche. You must achieve power, not to control others but yourself. So much of modern discourse frames "power" in such a negative light, like a sort of dark magic that corrupts. But Nietzsche wasn't just talking about political power, he was talking about personal power. The idea of forcing other people to obey your will is the very opposite of personal power - it is born from the personal insecurity and incapability of getting what you want for yourself. A person that has improved all areas of their life feels no need to hurt others. And when you hear someone telling you how you can do better, and your immediate reaction is anger - this is the surest way to know that secretly, you agree. If someone tries to motivate you and you genuinely know their advice is false, you react indifferently.

[@Bradieboi97]

I think ally fatigue is a valid term for venting about like listening to everyone’s dogshit opinions all day. My perspective is slanted because I study philosophy and politics and the moment people hear it they MUST share their opinions on trans people veganism and borders with me. It’s exhausting having to respond to the same soy brained takes. I think it’s similar to picking up dogshit. Mild annoyance but still an annoyance and you wouldn’t get rid of your dog for it. Also I usually easily dispel it because I think damn if that person gets to get it off their chest before meeting a trans person at least it’s me who’s hearing it who’s just annoyed at their stupidity I’m not being personally attacked

[@vipira1001]

Not right wing, but just being an asshole for no reason. People associate treating fatigue or failing as a moral failure as right wing because that's how their ideology works. Doesn't mean both go hand in hand.

[@Paint_The_Future]

"Make sure you get plenty of water." "Hydration Fascism!" "Make sure you get plenty of sleep." "Sleep Fascism!" "Make sure you breath in and out." "Respiratory Fascism!"

[@AnonJuggerbot]

What are you, a fucking ableist??? Some people can't breathe on their own!

[@NonEuclideanTacoCannon]

"Smoke weed everyday."

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

Quit it. Karl Marx himself was super shlubby and thought himself that shaming the less healthy was indeed Fascism. And with most things Marx said, he’s right. Workout Supremacist Culture was super integral to Nazi Ideology. The natural seperation between the “fit master race” and the “unfit subhuman leftists” - History repeats itself to those who never learn from it. Working out is obviously good but this bullying and shaming of the less fortunate is literally Nazi ideology, no cap. I long for the day she marries a Killstreamer and drops the “Leftist” Grift. Many Rightusts pretend to be Leftist, but no Leftists pretend to be Rightist. I wonder why. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

[@DAsrada]

"Make sure you vote against the GOP." "Fascism Fascism!" "Don't stay up too late." "Wakefulness Fascism!"

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

Quit it. Speaking of Sh0es tweet, Karl Marx literally thought shaming and forcing people into working out was indeed Fascism. And with most things, Marx was right. Fitness and Workout Supremacist Culture is literally Naz1 ideology. Quite literally. For the purposes of training new mindless muscle headed soldiers. The ‘natural’ separation between the “Fit Master Race” and the “Subhuman Unfit Leftists” you can literally see Naz1 posters depicting the extremely fit man as something to aspire to. Glad Sh0e is going mask-off and finally abandoning her “leftist” grift. She will probably Marry a K1llstreamer and call herself a “right libertarian” You see many Rightists pretending to be Leftists, but you never see Leftists pretending to be Rightists. I wonder why.

[@HimboVegan]

As a vegan ive noticed this is a big thing in our community. With men especially, we feel a pressure to be muscular just to break the stereotype. We want to reprosent the cause well, and that makes it not ok to be out of shape. Because like, someone who eats meat is out of shape or is skinny, no one says its because of the meat. But if we don't fit the body standard, or develop any health issues, everyone will say its because we are vegan. So we push against that, but as a result it becomes a toxic standard within the community itself.

[@marcomoreno6748]

I'm not vegan but I insinuate I am online. I'm pescetarian lol. I need to stop being lazy and work out my meal plan to go full vegan. That includes at least getting to a normal weight I'm about 40 lbs overweight.

[@gur262]

​@PenguinEconomics-st2wsno you can't. I was quite muscular and good cardio on top blood pressure up there still

[@Nuvizzle]

@PenguinEconomics-st2ws I absolutely want to see potato shaped people at the gym working out, but if they're diligent with it I guarantee you they won't be potato shaped for long. You have to be on a pretty extreme and intentional diet and exercise routine to both "fit" and obese, and even in that extreme case we have very reliable scientific evidence that it's STILL very unhealthy. Sumo wrestlers are basically at the peak of human fitness in most metrics, but they are also morbidly obese. The Sumo diet is healthy, they're obviously extremely physically strong, but their hearts still have to work much much harder than someone at a healthy weight. As a result the average lifespan for a Sumo wrestler is a whole 20 years shorter than the median Japanese male. I don't think there's a clearer example that no matter how much you take care of yourself in other ways, being obese is still a detriment to your health.

[@HimboVegan]

​@PenguinEconomics-st2wsStrongman fat jacked is a legit aesthetic im a huge fan of. Power guts look badass.

[@Ellipsi184]

@PenguinEconomics-st2wsTranslation: you wanna "own the right" by becoming them and having similar views, which in this case means being physically weak makes you 1nferior

[@theredreceivers]

I never thought being shy or having social anxiety was narcissistic, it kind of seems the opposite.

[@julianmcmillan2867]

Strangely, when it comes to mental illness, narcissism and social anxiety can be closely related. Now, most people with social anxiety aren't narcissists. Narcissism is a soulless state of being where everyone you look at looks like you. Now, can people with anxiety exhibit narcissistic traits or tendencies? Yes. A big part of social anxiety is the idea that people are more concerned with you than they really are. You're making yourself, in your mind, more important to others than you actually are. Except, it's out of fear of judgement. But still, you're placing way too much importance on yourself relative to the group. As someone with social anxiety, this is how I would describe it: it doesn't feel like you're at the bottom of a well and people are staring at you. It feels like you're on top of a hill and everyone is looking up laughing at you. This is the aspect where narcissism and social anxiety are related. In both cases you're imagining a level of self-importance that is unrealistic. The slight difference is that narcissists are trying to make it so. People with social anxiety already assume it is so and fear it.

[@Mae_Dastardly]

As a narcissist with crippling social anxiety I see this as an absolute loss

[@sheepketchup9059]

​​@@julianmcmillan2867 That's not what narcissism is??? Have you look into the actual medical diagnosis of narcissism? That it has to include shallow affects traits, manipulative streaks, impulsive personality, unempathic personality, superficial charm, and delusion of grandeur. Non of which would be expected of a shy introvert who have social anxiety. You using your private definition of narcissism to brand others as "narcissistic tendency exhibiting" is not helpful at all. Also, please have the empathy to realize that your experience with social anxiety is not universal, different people experience them differently. People with social interaction difficulties already had it enough as it is, no need to make them seem self-centered, self-aggrandizing or egomaniacal. 😔 Diagnostic Criteria F60.81 A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following: 1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements). 2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. 3. Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions). 4. Requires excessive admiration. 5. Has a sense of entitlement (i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations). 6. Is interpersonally exploitative (i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends). 7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others. 8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her. 9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes. (From DIAGNOSTIC AND STATISTICAL MANUAL OF MENTAL DISORDERS FIFTH EDITION TEXT REVISION)

[@THEoldy]

It's related in some ways but sort of opposite in other ways. Both have to do with a malfunctioning ego. Social anxiety can be described as an a over active ego (eg "Everyone thinks about me"), while narcissism can be described as complete lack of ego (eg "I am indistinguishable from what everyone thinks about me")

[@FelisImpurrator]

​@@julianmcmillan2867Half of this is just nonsense. I keep seeing this pop-psych narrative, especially in American sources, that basically push the idea that any sort of focus on the self is somehow excessively self-indulgent or pathological. I think it's related to Protestant cultural baggage and the idea that the group should be the primary focus of one's thoughts, a mentality that ironically causes narcissistic wounds and other such psychological traumas. Here's the real definition of narcissism, seeing as that's the part you're wrong about. Narcissism is a specific set of defensive responses to shame and insecurity, that manifests primarily as deflecting shame onto others and away from the self. It also means presenting an outward facade of confidence to hide vulnerability, not just from others but also from oneself. This means, necessarily, that narcissists do not often engage in introspection - they avoid it because that would mean confronting their insecurities, which means admitting they exist, which means admitting to have been weak and thus "shameful". This is literally the opposite of what you described, which is an excess of internalized self-consciousness. Superficially, both are defensive responses to a sense of self-worth that is damaged by the idea that one's value is determined by other people's opinions - but saying that the underlying traits are narcissistic either way is like saying the positive polarity on a magnet is the same as the negative polarity because they're both magnetic. If anything, the problem isn't "being too focused on oneself" or anything. It's being conditioned to value other people's judgments too highly, reflexively, because of growing up in a society that shames and guilts people for not living up to arbitrary standards. The way to move past it is often to think MORE about oneself, not in relation to others but to your own internal goals and needs and wants. It entails healing from the wound of shame and learning to assert oneself and be more assured of one's own value.

[@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je]

becoming the strongest version of oneself is individual to each person. someone in a weelchair won't deadlift hundreds of kilos, but they can train their upper body strength, or learn some valuable skill for the labor movement that is not physical.

[@Zelorp]

Hot Take: do whatever you want. Workout or don’t, who actually gives a crap? It’s your body.

[@timekeeper2538]

Well not working out is objectively the wrong decision to make in life though, I know you don't like the idea personally but there are some things inherently better than others.

[@BrianHamlin78203]

A lot of this speaks to my experiences of executive dysfunction with ADHD and depression etc. When you're being lazy you're enjoying yourself, when you have executive dysfunction you aren't. The ability to exercise your will and manifest your desires into the world and make it your property is one of if not the most important things for living a happy and fulfilled life. Self discipline is power of yourself over yourself.

[@oopsgravity441]

As a disabled man with cerebral palsy I am quite tired of idiots speaking for me, I work out at home , everyday , got a six pack at 37, you don’t need a gym , gyms are a crutch I don’t need, life is hard , keep pushing no matter your limitations

[@MaxLBogue]

I found that "because you should" usually ends up being a useless reason to be disciplined. Finding something that you love that requires some discipline to practice is a huge factor.

[@RatPfink66]

Americans are a puritan and punitive culture way down in the heart. Discipline is an end in itself, not a means. It is an alter to prostrate yourself upon daily to keep living in the body and the spirit (of submission to god), not in the self, thoughts and feelings.

[@Shammrye]

Moving your body. Even doing things like clapping if that’s all you can do is worth doing for yourself. I’m battling cancer right now and have herniated disks in my spine that prevent me from walking often. I still eat healthy and move as much as I can and I was able to hit a goal of walking 20 miles in one go a few weeks ago. My friend with fibromyalgia and a fainting disorder also walks with me and my other friend with a terminal heart condition. We take it slow, but we value our bodies and give them the best chance we can. If we can’t walk we do body weight arm exercises with each other. We also swim as it’s gentle on the body. unless you are in an iorn lung or fully paralyzed, moving your body is just about always good for it and you can do it, you don’t have to run a marathon, you don’t have to life hundreds of kilos, just putting on music you like and swaying to it is really good for your health and happiness. I think you are worth it, and so should you

[@marcomoreno6748]

A problem is many people with relatively healthy bodies take them for granted until shit hits the fan. I had a bit of a health scare recently but I find myself already slipping back into unhealthy habits (not getting enough sleep, eating out too often). I think humans are naturally "lazy" but that's not a bad thing. Being lazy in our prehistoric context was a way to stay alive. People don't know what kind of hell we used to live in terms of food security or shelter security. But now when it's easy to be a bad kind of lazy it is a problem, I think.

[@spacegirlfriend42069]

You're approaching exercise as an act of self love which is def the healthiest way to approach it

[@princessjello]

Wlaking 20miles straight is legit not something people do normally. 10k steps is about 5mi; you took 40k steps. Thats more than the amount i did on my hardest day of roaming around Tokyo.

[@mimisparkles8765]

I know someone in a wheelchair who uses said wheelchair as a weapon by throwing it. Same person frequently goes to protests and uses their disabled status to act as a shield against cops (cuz boy would that be bad optics) and protects others like that.

[@godofspacetime333]

That’s not a wheelchair, that’s a THRONE 👑

[@Greyinkling276]

I'm going to go out on a limb, a really sturdy and strong limb, and guess that the reason so many of those replies didn't make sense with the original comment was because someone somewhere else said "hey everyone look at this problematic post that says x" and x was not what the post said, but it was what those people were replying to. Hense the focus on masks.

[@vanessaashford9203]

I dunno, some of the mask-related stuff suggests instead that it's literally just a strawman of the OP that a bunch of them came up with, like they just assumed the OP also doesn't mask in public literally 24/7 (like, you know, 99% of people now don't) because they're so pathologically obsessed with masking (like Vaush said, they've made it their whole personality) that anyone they disagree with must obviously be anti-mask by default. It's kind of like how the far right immediately assume anyone they disagree with is a blue-haired feminist antifa member who uses neopronouns.

[@bulletsandbracelets4140]

The "Narcissism as a moral failing" being bad thing is the only point that I'll give them. Narcissism is a diagnosis (NPD) and not something that can be "cured" - but like any personality disorder, it can be managed. The person needs to engage in the process, obviously, but narcissism and egotistical are two different things. It's just people using narcissistic wrong, just like they always have. I wish they'd change the name of the diagnosis tbh, but I suppose it came first and it's probably too hard to do it. But being narcisstic does not inherently make someone abusive or a bad person. It's letting the worst parts of that disorder guide their actions, and not trying to account for the people around them, that leads to abusive behavior.

[@vanessaashford9203]

I mean, this isn't strictly true, "narcissism" is just a description of behavior, it's not necessarily synonymous with NPD as a diagnosis, this is like saying calling any behavior "antisocial" is ableist because Antisocial Personality Disorder is in the DSM (or telling someone to "stop the histrionics" is attacking people with Histrionic Personality Disorder)

[@cyanthrope]

it's like I say when I feel myself getting reactive from rejection sensitivity; just because you feel like you're dying does not mean you have the right to treat other people like they're killing you

[@bulletsandbracelets4140]

@@vanessaashford9203 antisocial isn't necessarily seen in as negative a light as narcissistic is, but that's why I said I can't blame people. Popular language is what it is, but Cluster B personality disorders are hugely vilified and many people who have them struggle with that. Saying narcissism is a moral failing is part of that. If someone was saying being antisocial is a moral failing I'd say the same thing, lol. But do what you will!

[@Cyanopteryx]

I'm a caregiver who works with disabled people and many of them do exercise and are open to exploring new things (activities, dietary choices, etc.) that may help improve their overall health. Coincidentally the only clients I've had who got offended/upset when I made suggestions or offered to help them exercise or go outside were both conservative trump supporters. I really think this kind of knee-jerk rhetoric is mainly perpetuated in online spaces by chronically online people. It's really not a common irl perspective from what I can tell.

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

People with debilitating conditions still have physical therapy.

[@matan.saster]

If you don't know what physical therapy is, sure.

[@britishrocklovingyank3491]

@@matan.sasterOK. Please explain your comment. I am truly confused.

[@dinosaysrawr]

Some of us need it to manage pain and/or maintain our current level of ability.

[@matan.saster]

Physical therapy is exercise.@@britishrocklovingyank3491

[@matan.saster]

I am one of those people too.@@dinosaysrawr

[@shadowwarrier4416]

Please, if you can, work out. Working out is a form of self-care. It helps you mentally and physically.

[@d3tuned378]

Yeah even if you want to be fat, you can be fat and also have muscles to help you move that fat around.

[@jhonshephard921]

@@d3tuned378 most professional athletes are that. By BMI, they are technically overweight but as you said they have muscles.

[@d3tuned378]

@@jhonshephard921 the BMI chart is pretty outdated

[@fluffynator6222]

Ok, why do I feel like shit afterwards

[@shadowwarrier4416]

@@fluffynator6222 You should exercise just enough to feel tired but not too much. Keep in mind that if you are just starting even something like 5 push-ups may feel too much. If that is the case just keep doing them as often as possible until you get used to them

[@Jeremy-hx7zj]

I'm a severely undisciplined person with terrible habits with a natural inclination towards insecurity and resisting hard work. Vaush is right. My life is indescribably worse than it could be because I don't have the discipline required to embrace extended exertion.

[@mustangvsenvy]

Having been on a fitness journey for a year now, the improvements to my life in all aspects cant be overstated. It's such a good thing to employ self care and anything more than you're currently doing is improvement.

[@razorsedge64ify]

There is a serious problem on the left right now of people hiding behind their disabilities. Someone has autism therefore we must excuse every shitty behavior they engage in Someone has adhd therefore we must ignore the fact they wont take a shower. Its inportant to aknowlege how disabilities lead to problems but its equally important to identify those problems and work to fix and atleast work on them. Its becoming too prevelant to allow excuses and bad behavior not to change based on mental disabilities. I have bad adhd and have had to make schedules and do certain things and develop habits to help alleviate some problems its given me....its not the correct thing for me to just sit back, ignore all the problems my condition gives me and then say people are ableist when they suggest i need to do things that are good for me like shower and finish chores

[@GlenaGarrett]

Why TF does anyone still give shoeonhead any seconds of airtime? she's lost the dot, if she ever had it.

[@vanessaashford9203]

because "she's funny" (and also probably in some cases bc they think she's hot)

[@ThomasShatter]

Because Vaush and Keffals are really dumb and gullible people who will simp to anyone that pretends to like them.

[@mirallstrencats8018]

this made me wanna work out again

[@fmleverynameistakenx]

As someone with an autoimmune disease, people really underestimate how stuff like that hinders you in everyday life. Before my diagnosis (which took years), it was a fight against pain and fatigue and every day, plus some depressive episodes. Even after my diagnosis it took years to get to a point were I can live a healthy lifestyle. Knowing both worlds now, it makes me mad when healthy people try to explain to me how i should have just worked out more when they live life on easy mode. Now that I know what it's like to have minimum levels of fatigue, way less pain and much better mental health, doing all that stuff like exercise and healthy cooking is easy and mostly a mindset thing. Also working manual labor can have this effect too. I see this as a health care professional (finishing medschool) in a lot of patients who worked those jobs for decades. It's too complex to explain in detail here, but destroyed joints, degenerative tendons, muscle imbalances plus fatigue from long work hours and toxic work environments will realistically make it very very hard to implement all those lifestyle adjustments. We should still encourage and help eachother to do it, but sometimes greater changes like a job change is needed - social factors are a huge influence on our health. And unfortunately, sometimes the damage is done and you need to accept a certain level of disability. Edit: I guess what's bothering me is that healthy people often have a very one-sided view on this issue. Yes, people try and rationalize their passiveness instead of changing things, sometimes to a toxic degreee. And yes, some leftists rather critique systemic issues so they don't have to look too much at their personal problems. But as someone on the other side, I had the experience that a huge amount of people are triggered by the idea that you can't just fix anything by discipline. There were people in my life that had problems with understanding that I just couldn't do all the healthy things and feel better. And in hindsight, I'm mad that I even tried to listen to these people - they never had advice that actually helped. The mindset that actually helped me get my life together was accepting that I, for some at that point yet unidentified reason, had pain, fatigue, frequent infections and mental health issues, and I needed to live my life according to my limits. Only then was I able to start to learn building healthy habits. And it took years, a diagnosis and expensive meds and years of treatment to finally be were I am now. I am so grateful for my parents that they were the support I needed - they never saw my suffering as being lazy or whining, even though I really wouldn't have blamed them if they did (from the outside, I think it really looked like that). But instead, they just offered me the help I needed and accepted when I said no. And that's the attitude I really wish more people had, instead of immediately trying to defend their idea of independence, discipline, self-control or whatever it is they feel is being threatened when they see that someone is struggling. I feel like Vaush usually is pretty productive with his lifestyle advice because he focuses on mostly achievable and concrete tips, but sometimes I feel like he forgets how hard life legitimately can be for a lot of people. I guess I'm in my own bubble being in healthcare, but so many people struggle with health issues and for many, the much-needed message is to listen to their bodies' signals, accept help and stop fighting all the time to seem "normal" and "functioning" to other people.

[@alexf3036]

Agreed. I feel like there's a difference between all kinds of limitations and people often forget to take inflammation related problems and degenerative diseases into account. It's always some otherwise healthy guy who was born without an arm. Or someone who recovered from a car crash.

[@BandieDiamanda]

thank you for this comment it best puts to words what i felt was missing from this discussion. im still pre dx and struggling in every moment. is it ok if i use ur words for self advocacy?

[@girlzgonepolitical]

The advice not to confuse mistakes and setbacks with personal moral failure and deep self hatred is also excellent advice for dealing with addiction. The statement about believing that you are capable and deserving of self-improvement is such a salient perspective for personal growth in general. Obviously, mental health is complicated and most people would benefit from therapy. But this perspective is a great way to motivate positive decisions from getting healthly to deciding to seek professional help.

[@verablack3137]

‘From each according to ability to each according to need’ to me implicitly tells me that I should try to have the most capability and the least need, so that I can help my fellow comrades. How anyone can read those words and think “I should never improve” is beyond me

[@azraellie_]

You can weight lift for endurance training without gaining significant muscle mass

[@vanessaashford9203]

directly to the right of you rn in the recommended videos on my end is the Chubbyemu vid "A Man Squatted 500 Pounds After Chugging 3 Energy Drinks And This Happened"

[@azraellie_]

@@vanessaashford9203 how long you find you usually have to endure 500 pounds for?

[@azraellie_]

@@vanessaashford9203 seriously wtf does this have to do with my comment

[@pepelag7278]

It really sucks that Shoe is moving more right wing socially because she's so funny and we kind of need people like that on our side. Stuff like this really does not help lol.

[@Ellipsi184]

You have a problem with her being right wing on multiple issues however when she's anti feminist then you don't have a problem with it.

[@Ellipsi184]

Her anti feminism is right wing too right?

[@Ellipsi184]

You say this while crying about woke leftists

[@yandere8888]

@@Ellipsi184 whats 3 + 5 equal to

[@elizabethbennet4791]

​@@Ellipsi184sucks cuz Im super feminist and loathe online left discourse. I want to love her but ugh girl we re just asking to not be constantly put upon by society.

[@jhonshephard921]

he is 100% right about self improvement. I WAS in that slump and got out of it achieved something I could never have imagined, but after getting the awards from it I have also gotten back into the slump. The thing that pulled me out was basically having a timed project, I had a contest and a time limit, but with other people holding me accountable for that project. Most of the work was still done by myself because I was the only one who had time in the group to learn but having someone ask about the progress every week helped. I didn't even keep any of the multiple prizes I won from the contest, I gave each of them away, I just wanted to know I could win at something.

[@godofspacetime333]

Accountability is huge for me too. Left to my own devices I will sit around and do nothing and make myself depressed because of it, but just having another person relying on me or checking in gives me someone else I don’t want to disappoint which is a stronger motivator for me than just making myself happier. So I’ve learned to seek out those situations when I can.

[@Shulwelld]

Every single person in that twitter video thing needs to touch grass. Exercise is great for you, most people should do it, some people can’t and that’s fine. Poor health/nutrition is absolutely a systemic issue that should be fixed on a national scale, but even in a system that is designed to make you unhealthy, it’s still worth putting the effort in to try to fight that. Was that so hard?

[@PropheticShadeZ]

Because the people on Twitter are 14 year olds, and they dont want to listen to their mom

[@spacegirlfriend42069]

Surely it can't be that simple to comprehend

[@godofspacetime333]

Omg you sound exactly like Hitler right now.

[@vanessaashford9203]

everyone on the Twitter left has to take the most extreme stance on every issue ever and then accuse everyone who disagrees with them of being a bigoted oppressor in one way or another, it's just their entire MO

[@alexroselle]

This is erasure of those of us who have serious allergic reactions to touching grass, smh do better

[@djungelskog9581]

honestly I've been having a shit couple months and even just doing 10 pushups while I wait for a game to load several times a day helps me feel a lot better, helps to disperse some of the brain fog and make me feel a little more present, do what you can you'll feel better and when you feel better you can DO better

[@amellirizarry9503]

Body fascism is silly sounding term but the original shue tweet was fucked up

[@modernkiwi6447]

precisely like what the fuck was she trying to accomplish with that tweet??

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

​@@modernkiwi6447 it's very odd to be a vaush viewer with his take

[@timmysleftnutsack5075]

It’s literally true, move your body, u make us look bad.

[@Are_you_eyeballing_me]

@@timmysleftnutsack5075based and redpilled.

[@noahrichardson2672]

No, it was funny. And true.

[@Freesorin837]

People are afraid of being judged because there are a lot of circumstances involving our interactions with others where being judged negatively has practically negative effects on people's quality of life. If it was a purely emotional effect people could get over it more easily, but being viewed negatively by others can have physical effects beyond your own personal control and people are rightfully afraid of that.

[@Diogenes_ofSinope]

Can confirm that discipline improves leisure. Us germans tend to be disciplined with our leisure and it's much more enjoyable than just having no plan for your free time.

[@davitdavid7165]

I hate how big, public parts of the left validate every stereotype i was tought in 2016. If right wingers faked this back then we would have called this ridiculous

[@knighter1209]

Yeah, I was in that boat in 2016 as well. Thankfully, in the ensuing years, some saint reminded me that none of those stereotypes represented actual policy.

[@vanessaashford9203]

I mean tbf, the far right generally does just as good of a job of living up to the whole "insecure hentai-addicted incel school shooter who clings to white identity and supposed racial superiority, even though they're probably the product of multiple generations of incest" stereotype

[@IMelkor42]

A: "Try working out, you might feel better" B: "It won't fix my cancer" A: "You're right, none of us should bother working out, because you have cancer..."

[@Dontcare_life]

The people replying missed the obvious answer that leftism, especially libertarian leftism, should be focused on personal freedom, if someone doesn't want to work out they shouldn't be told to just to be a good leftist. Leftism isn't about subservience to some greater good but the freedom from hierarchy and oppression. Some people are "lazy" and that's ok, leftists shouldn't tell them what to do in their personal lives as long as it isn't hurting anyone else. Also from what I've heard many people don't work out due to being too tired from their soul sucking job. Or because they can't find time.

[@timekeeper2538]

Ok so you have your own personal idea of leftism that you for some reason think is gonna take off in any Socialist economy 😭 Tell you what brother , your world is definitely possible but only if Science gives us Post-Scarcity, like the people of Star Trek just beaming all their food into existence.

[@dattyruble3954]

I first heard of body fascism from my therapist years ago while dealing with the height of my eating disorder. He was an interesting guy.

[@Hannahgs]

People see “workout” and their mind goes right to like those super intense workouts you see bodybuilders doing in social media. Yall, you can just go for a walk. Go for a swim. Ride a bike. Do some stretches and body weight exercises at home. There are a ton of videos right here on KZbin that are tailor made for basically anyone of any body type, age, ability, interest, etc. I’m willing to bet if you looked up “low impact hiphop workout for lower body paralysis” you could find something. Of course, you don’t have to workout. But I think getting movement in is good. For your mental and physical health. You don’t even need to do it every day, just do what you can when you can.

[@eduardorivera8996]

Nothing will convince me these are real people

[@godofspacetime333]

I think it depends on how you define “people.”

[@RatPfink66]

I know I'm real, but nothing will convince me I'm "people"

[@TheGabrielPT]

They are real. They are just 15.

[@MilesDashing]

Minor correction: Discipline is about enforcing your will on YOU, not necessarily the world. Discipline is the ability to make yourself do things that are good for you and will make you happier in the long run, like working out. Or about doing things that you DO want to do, but without discipline laziness or any number of subclinical disorders keeps you from doing. Like it's really hard for me to get up the morning, if I don't discipline myself I will keep hitting the snooze button for hours. I do WANT to get up, but I don't FEEL like it. Also, we should all have recognized it as a red flag when Contra started endorsing Nietzsche. Voosh is referencing her "Envy" video, in which it's possible to see in retrospect that she had already started down the road to becoming a JKR apologist. Because she had started to identify with the powerful instead of the oppressed.

[@davidv4018]

Is anybody having a decent take? No... Person 1: -Whatever i do like, is what you NEED to do. Person 2:- doing anything is ableist.

[@nachofast6144]

31:40 This is one of the most correct things Vaush has ever said. As a former addict one of the worst things that kept me addicted was the idea of "I am pathetic, I can't do it, you failed again, you slipped back into it, you don't even deserve it" shit. And it affects EVERYTHING in your life. Not just one thing. Just go "Oh fuck, I messed up. Let's do that again but better because I know I could make it all the way there, now I just gotta go a bit further." I don't care if it's true or untrue at the moment I say it. IT HELPS in the long run to uphold good behavior patterns.

[@RatPfink66]

That's still not discipline. Discipline means denying something inside yourself that you would otherwise want, or even need, in the moment, for the benefit of the long run. Without the negative there could be no positive.

[@christophersnedeker]

This is why the first thing I'd do when I get into power is ban Twitter.

[@TheGabrielPT]

And tiktok

[@christophersnedeker]

​@@TheGabrielPT yeah probably

[@chillcapybaracitrus]

As a martial artist, vaush thinking muay Thai is a larpy grappling martial art 💀💀💀💀💀

[@Reina_MainTKN]

🤓🤓As a disabled person 🤓 You absolutely should work out, everyone should. Do something within your means it’s good for your mental and physical health even if it’s small. The exemption of course being if your doctor has said no, some heart conditions are like that for instance. Disabled people specifically often *need* to work out, it’s often a huge part of treatment plans as exercise help so much. It’s actually ableist to suggest otherwise. I don’t want to go to the gym to do my physio and have people say I’m “not that” disabled. I want disabled parking spaces at the gym. That means advocating for disabled people to be able to, and to do exercise. It’s great to help people to exercise. It’s taboo for some people, it’s scary sometimes, and you should advocate for and help them. Exercise helps everyone. I think as leftist we should advocate for things that help people so much like exercise being as easily accessible as possible. All of this said, it’s not political to work out. It’s not a moral anything to work out or to not. It’s not a purity test. Making it so is the opposite of advocating for people’s health. Lastly, as far as self defence goes, it’s a great thing to do when you can. I’m disabled and a martial arts practitioner with enough stead will be able to help you both with self defence and fitness to your level. Dog style kung fu for instance was designed by a lady who couldn’t walk, she knew her art and adapted it. Passionate martial artists will help you. It’s good to be able to defend yourself. It helps your confidence to be around people especially as a labelled minority group who might be under more attacks. So TL;DR Disabled people often need to work out and the idea they can’t at all is not helpful. Work out unless you’ve been medically told not to, and help others to do so. Self defence is good and a martial artist who knows their art will know how to help you even if you are disabled.

[@MrQuantumInc]

Stopping yourself from throwing a pity party is easier said than done. It is really tempting to feel bad over the fact that you feel bad over nothing. You can simultaneously hate yourself because maybe your mental illness is fake, and also hate yourself because maybe your mental illness is real. The urge to lay down and rot can sometimes be irresistible, but that doesn't make going onto Twitter and trying to rationalize it a good thing.

[@gesugaoevilface7876]

As a fairly well experienced boxer, and hema practitioner. I wanna let other leftists know. I'm a huge nerd, and these skills are useless in the modern world. I'd probably win most 1v1 fights. But a single scrawny guy with a gun, or a group of officers would easily kill me. The only practical reason for learning a martial art after the invention of gun powder is for fun. Exercising is great for your body and mental health. Jogging, Running, and swimming are skills that might actually save your life. And fortunately you can practice these skills without getting punched in the face.

[@bijou.miszou]

feeling good in your body is sweet and there is joy in movement that i hope all can experience to the highest of their ability

[@kaialexander6806]

I do think that part of what contributes to the knee-jerk "body fascism" reaction is the past experiences most disabled people have had with pretty much everyone in terms of people not believing you when you try to tell them that you can't physically do that. I did have a knee-jerk reaction of the same sort though nowhere near as intense, and that reaction is what having fits of paralysis dismissed as "minor concerns" will do to you. Luckily, I'm not on Twitter at all and have a life outside of the internet so that reaction has never spiraled into "body fascism", and also, I know when to stop reading a tweet thread when the first tweet is being waved by a matador.

[@ArDeeMee]

„Some people can’t lift.“ Then lift a chocolate bar. 20 times with your left arm, outstretched, 20 times with your right arm. You just lifted. Baby steps ARE STEPS.

[@c.m.9369]

I don‘t object to the „you should work out“ advice. I dislike the „You should be ashamed of yourself if you can‘t work out“ attitude. THAT‘s not helping. And you‘re not „supperior“ to me, because you work out regularly, while I struggle with that. We all have our vices. It‘s all about how you present it.

[@Mae_Dastardly]

Shame is a useless emotion that only serves to entrench people deeper in their bad habits, anyone who tells someone to be ashamed of their failures doesn't actually care about helping them, they just want to inflict emotional pain and punish those they perceive as deserving of it. They don't deserve an ounce of respect or consideration.

[@Sashitoge]

This discourse encompasses both why I started working out (relatively small scale so far because I despise gyms), and why I don't talk about how it is in large part motivated by my ideology

[@Jeremy-hx7zj]

People are insecure about being judged because if enough or the right people judge you too badly you get cut off from food and shelter

[@thanosbambi]

i'm mostly empty inside, and have little desire for self-improvement. but i am principled at least, so i guess i gotta

[@cloudycolacorp]

I’m going to lose weight and get fitter 😤

[@glitchedoom]

Go get 'em, Dunsparce.

[@gur262]

Maybe dunsparce can get a good evolution

[@Mae_Dastardly]

100% do it my physical and mental health was so much better when I did, plus the more fit u are the more your enemies will seethe

[@Ellipsi184]

@@Mae_DastardlyVaush fans always talk about "how the left refuses to take the easy W" which in reality means agreeing and adopting right wing beliefs.

[@Ellipsi184]

@@Mae_DastardlyBy promoting the idea that being fit makes you a better person than someone then you unironically sound like a right winger. You essentially became the thing you hate.

[@geisenm]

The disability discourse on the left is completely asinine. I have Type 1 Diabetes. It is a disability. It makes working out much harder because of the need to closely monitor my blood sugar during workouts. Far and away the biggest barrier to my progress when I was regularly working out was sessions being prematurely disrupted by hypoglycemia; it happened a LOT and it was incredibly frustrating. And...my life was so much better when I worked out frequently. I looked better. I felt better, physically and mentally. It made my diabetes easier to manage overall because of the way the exercise impacted my metabolism. Doing cardio for long periods of time was particularly challenging due to the impacts it had on my blood sugar, so...I avoided it doing it. I wear an insulin pump that attaches to my body and can't be easily removed, so I avoided contact sports. So I focused on lifting weights. Sure, it sucks that the way my body works complicates certain activities to the point that I don't find them worth pursuing. But I understand that it's not my fault, and I'm over it.

[@GothMoth_exe]

"The narcissistic obsession that everyone has with beating themselves up over mistakes...." 31:46 LISTEN TO THIS PHRASE AGAIN AND AGAIN AND LET IT SINK IN. It is OK to try and fail. But failing and then self-flagellating over that failure to the point where your day-to-day mood is so dour you can't look at yourself is itself a form of narcissism. I think a lot of people forget negative narcissism exists. Had to learn this lesson a few years ago, that my selfish impulse to public punish myself for any minor mistake I made was hurting people and needed to stop. Do I still feel guilty when I fail to complete something? Sure, yeah, but I did have to learn not to let that knee-jerk emotional response run away with me.

[@veryscaryreaper8883]

This, this, this. I've had the exact same tendency, and my advice to anyone experiencing this is that the best way to apologize to the people you've hurt is to actually change and grow as a person, which requires actually doing hard work over a period of years.

[@cyanthrope]

whenever I start to backslide into self-hate I force myself to remember that. That I really must think myself the center of the universe if a small failing is the end of the world. Sorts me out pretty fast

[@sofftskies3769]

How would you go about even dealing with this if youre fairly isolated and mentally in a ditch? A lot of this is internal mental stuff, even if it doesn't externalize, the spiral can be deadly. Idk how to fight it either.

[@RatPfink66]

Confront your failures. Let them hurt you and move on. If you don't, they'll become your very best friends. No, there's no way to make this a caring act in the moment. All I know is that when you don't accept and say yes to pain, it won't ever go away.

[@freedomofmusic2112]

I used to believe that, "I must be strong so I can protect others." Then, within a year, I tore both my rotator cuffs and havent been able to lift heavy weights since. When it happened, I was a bartender at the time, and just pouring liquor was agonizing. I went through I giant spell of depression that lasted several years before getting into Martial Arts, but it was about 10 years before i started working out again. I just do it for health reasons and because it makes me feel good. I dont pressure on myself to excel in fitness, i only work out 2-3 days a week for about an hour, when before i would lift weights and run 3 miles per day. Since going back to the gym, I've lost 20 pounds and my arms have gotten bigger over the last 6 months. Being gentle with yourself is a much healthier and productive attitude towards fitness. I'm not a professional athlete and will never be, but i do feel a lot better now. I have a lot more energy than I used to.

[@emilchan5379]

The issue I have is how incredibly larpy this all is. There is really no need to present everything you do as part of some grand political action. People should exercise because it is a generally a healthy thing to do, not because it will make you a better revolutionary or something. Also, giving advice isn't fascism jfc. People throw around that term way too much.

[@Prometheus1464]

As a person with ADHD and executive dysfunction, I will fail at attempting anything very often. But I can only blame god for my luck of the draw however doing so does nothing cause he is either dead, not real, or laughing at me on his TV. So instead of just lying down and dying over my poor ability to do basic things, I acknowledge that I won't always get better or improve as fast as an able person, but I can half work through it with schedules and plans. I know that despite my disability, eventually if I do it enough I can fake being a normal person and do the things I want to do.

[@alexh9676]

why is every twitter leftist disabled

[@Stable_Genius]

😂 apparently...and ret*rded.

[@Mae_Dastardly]

They became leftists because of their disability, they want a system that takes care of them because they know from personal experience that liberalism is ineffective at ensuring a tolerable living standard for the disabled. In other words they're leftists out of self interest moreso than ideological reasons and as such they aren't interested in contributing to the leftist agenda when it's not about them. Source: I made all that shit up lmfao

[@antonioalbul00]

Caz the right can't accept them and people on the left put you high on their social pecking order and depending on how you use leftist language you can get far with the social capital

[@ThePanMan11]

I get this impulse. I have a chronic illness in my lungs and i really struggle to work out. It doesn't make it impossible for me, just really unappealing. Being told i should work out does hit a nerve and hearing the initial made me feel a bit bad and self conscious. Couldn't imagine actually whining about it though trying to justify my laziness. I just choose to ignore the post and keep slowly disintegrating.

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

I will say if someone who delves into fitness communities, a ton of these people only care about men with big rippling muscles and don't care about health in any of its other facets. Exercise is still better than no exercise, as someone who used to think the opposite because of depression.

[@theuscivicsnerd7070]

I have lifelong heart disease and workout. When you view it as an expression of what you’re capable of and not a chore it’s more fun.

[@LunarEgo]

Vaush: "People should stop using psychobabble in everyday speech." Also Vaush: Proceeds to then confuse social anxiety for narcissism.

[@alexroselle]

“Harrison Bergeron” was meant as a cautionary tale, not an instruction manual! Also since you mentioned Aristotle it might be worth mentioning his concept of “Eudaimonia”, which I think is similar to what you said about self-improvement and “productive leisure” as an alternative to pure hedonism and passivity. The channel “Wisecrack” explores it some more in a recent video about “why are leftists depressed?” (I forgot the title)

[@imbabey]

I mostly agree with vaush but telling insecure people they're actually narcissistic isn't going to help them, it's going to make it worse😑 I don't think there even is anything you can tell them to help, they need to realize they have worth by themselves.

[@andrebighach]

eveyone bullies you for your body and everyone lies and says that they don't, someone wants to talk about one of the most important parts of their life while normal bodied people constantly suppress it, that is not obsession.

[@mr.irrelevent8956]

Twitter leftists reading comprehension test, level: impossible

[@CentrePeice]

The thing about being larpy is injuries galore. One thing to build up to larping, and a whole other thing to build up the physical resiliency to not get injured. Just look at the injury rates of military service

[@neferiusnexus]

yea, no, jumping jacks and other impact exercises are TERRIBLE for keeping fit. I used to lightly jog back home from work for a couple years and it absolutely WRECKED my knees and flattened my butt to the point where sitting down was uncomfortable. Walking is better cardio and for growing muscle you need to lift for at least 10 reps a set, about 6 sets per muscle group per week

[@neferiusnexus]

also, exercise can ABSOLUTELY keep tumours in check... it's certainly helped me with mine.

[@armannstraughter3296]

Interesting.

[@a.agrayson6253]

The rest is larpy nonsense, but finding an activity that you enjoy that you can do a few times a week does wonders for your overall health. You end up changing other unhealthy habits to accommodate your activity. I started swimming a few times a week in 2018 and now I take lunch walks, do yoga, and meal prep. All of this is enjoyable. I don't have to force myself to do these things, they're just habits that I like that make me feel good. You're worth 20 minutes a day. You deserve to feel good.

[@sookendestroy1]

Is this the Body Politic

[@godofspacetime333]

The body politic needs to get swole

[@Glacierlune]

Remember, "cant because too disabled" is included in "best as you can"

[@Rusty-q3b]

TLDR: OP - Bad ; Replies - Worse

[@glitchedoom]

TLDR: Twitter

[@cyanthrope]

ah, thanks, I wasn't sure if it was a day ending in "y"

[@indiecrowarts]

As someone who is disabled and on the left, I get the sentiment, but the response is very uncharitable. Even if you can’t work out due to a disability, having some form of movement and a good diet is a benefit to you. I used to enjoy athletic activities and due to my chronic muscle and joint pain I can’t go on runs anymore, most days I can’t even go for an enjoyable walk around my neighborhood and it sucks- but instead I make up for it by pacing back and forth in the ten food long hallway in my house while listening to music, it’s not as much as I’d like but, it’s something. Since I’ve been eating better I feel better too. I know even though my mobility is limited, and I can’t lift more than 25lbs without injuring myself, I try to move around and eat fairly decently for the sake of my own health. Even if your wheelchair bound at the very least it’s good to try having a decent diet of foods that supplement your lack of activity. Good health is a privilege, and as someone who used to be in good health, able bodied people just don’t really understand or factor in disabled people usually, at least this guy considered the limitations a disability can put on you. But it feels like Twitter just discarded the original point, and the obvious intention of the thread, starting a fight that wasn’t there to begin with To any fellow disabled folks who come across this: I believe in you, drink water, and try to figure out what you can do within your limitations, if all you can do is better your diet then that’s good too

[@fluffynator6222]

36:08 - Shaming people for feeling shame leads nowhere

[@jonathanmitchell8698]

I feel like the problem is in the individualistic language (and cultural paradigms) of most modern societies. I don't think we can just demand that words like "discipline" don't carry the individualistic/moralistic connotations that they've been steeped in. When you say something like "discipline is good" it comes along with the shame-based associations of the colloquial meaning, even if you have something else in mind. And I don't think it's just a trivial issue of definitions either, because words carry more implicit meaning than definitions can capture. When you say "discipline is good", you're kind of saying "X is good" where X is some vague, ill-defined concept that is in some sense related to the colloquial meaning of "discipline" but differs in an unknown way. I think the fact that the target meaning you're trying to convey is close to the concept of discipline in some sense actually makes it way harder to convey the concept that you're aiming at, and I don't think you can blame people for feeling negatively towards the statement. The target concept is not easily found in the western cultural zeitgeist, which serves as the framework in which we think and communicate whether we like it or not.

[@goldmandrummer]

Bad take on therapy...misuse of terms is a common problem across domains, as a problem of our education and media (and language, tbh).

[@WarpsmithAdam]

Something I've started doing as I've gotten older is trying to look forward to things like cleaning my bathroom. I don't get a lot of days off, but when I do, it's so easy to just lay on the couch, petting my dog & scrolling all day. If I do actual self care, like cleaning my apartment and making a piece of art or something, I feel so much more rested than I would had I actually just "rested." I think a lot of people also mistake feeling bad for self flagilation. Feeling a little bad about things can be a good avenue for self-improvement, but so many people, especially young people in a post-Covd world, have such low emotional capacity that any amount of feel-bad causes them to self destruct.

[@amaurylannes]

Telling people to work out is not LARPy wtff

[@mmilcz833]

31:50 genuinely one of the most motivating sentences I’ve ever heard