Unraveling the Tragic Fate of the Pole Family: Loyalty, Betrayal, and Survival in Tudor England

Dive deep into the riveting saga of the Pole family, descendants of George, Duke of Clarence, as they navigate through a treacherous landscape of political power plays, religious reformation, and the ever-changing tides of the royal favor.
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[@MikePole_the_kiwi]

Fascinating- thanks!

[@Annielovescardmaking]

I read that Arthur is the second son..and that King Henry put Reginold thru school. Reginold was raised by the munks across from where his mother lived as a nunery.

[@JM-The_Curious]

That Arthur died before the events putting the family in the Tower. There was also a sister of Henry, Arthur, Geoffrey and Reginald called Ursula. She married into another noble family that also got caught up on the wrong side of Henry VIII.

[@Annielovescardmaking]

@@JM-The_Curious she married Henry Stafford who was a bit younger that she. Staffords were noble and long line of heritage.

[@Vic-qf1fi]

My dear great grandmother blessed Margaret through her daughter Ursula I am from

[@examplelife1567]

The problem was putting the TUDORS on throne when they had no business being there in the first place!🤔

[@balazsillyes7639]

I 'm sorry to "break it" but it happened because Richard the Third took away the throne form his nephews. He declared Edward the Fourth marriage was illegitim. When he did that, he made HOuse of York choose apart. Elizabeth Woodville made an agreement with Henry Tudor, to marry her daughter, so her grandchild would become the king of England.

[@deborahschumann8286]

Henry VII claimed the throne by right of conquest. “They” didn’t put him on the throne…he did it himself.

[@bethwilliams4903]

Ah with French money, Norman mercenaries, Scottish cavalry, spies like Bray and at least a dozen malcontent Lancastrian exiles like Oxford along with another dozen equally malcontent and Uber entitled gentry from the southern counties (Les by Kentishmen, always the Kentishmen, many who had already been treasonous to Edward IV in 1469-70 but how sweet, E4 pardoned them) - Henry bought his throne with massive paydays to the Stanley’s and Anne de Beaujeu (he would of course stab his French and Breton saviors in the back as soon as he could break the Treaty) - and ask William Stanley how well he found Henry’s rewards - no earldom for him, just big bro, who did zip to finish off Richard on the field. Such ingratitude!

[@examplelife1567]

@balazsillyes7639 Actually that is just a theory. Possibly it happened in all likelihood it did not happen that way. The reality of the situation is far more complicated. Henry Tudor spent his entire reign attempting to maintain control over a country that kept rising up and it did so because everybody knew he wasn't the rightful king. Henry VIi followed by total insanity that Henry VIII practically managed to murder every single person with Plantagenet blood because they knew they had no business being sitting thier bums on the throne.

[@examplelife1567]

@deborahschumann8286 Hi. No, sorry that's actually not correct. What Henry Tudor actually did was commit high treason, and regicide. Actually to be perfectly clear he did not kill Richard III himself, that simply would have been way out of his leque, after all Richard has been fighting in the worst battles known to history and he started living this life at around 15 years old. The battles fought during the cousins war saw more men killed in a single battle than were killed in entire wars up until then. King Edward needed to bring his brothers, who normally would have been considered too young to fight because very early on in this extremely brutal war all the men fighting age and common sense were dead. The cousins war became a young man's war very early on. And young men and fools rush in....undoubtedly the overall young age contributed to the horrendous violence, coupled with a huge sense of revenge on both sides. Fathers literally dying under sword arm of sons, son who in many cases were basically boys and having the entire responsibility of their family's foisted on them. Henry Tudor spent this entire time running from one European Court to another. He was barely educated in Latin never mind the lessons learnt on a battle field. His life was one constantly having to leave one place when it looked like he might make a great bargaining cip for whichever monarch was hosting him . He was extremely insecure, had low self-esteem, I probably ought to mention this right at the beginning...If you want to know more about Henry Tudor there's a great book. Winter King: The Dawn of Tudor England. Author: Thomas Penn I think there's KZbin documentary as well. It's very interesting 😵‍💫 Sorry for boring you stupid

[@jilliangrieder2049]

I love Margaret! Thanks for

[@cindyteysko703]

The royals could be brutal 😮

[@patriciahill6839]

Fascinating family destroyed ultimately from within

[@bethwilliams4903]

Tell me again where I can read the trial of Edward of Warwick? The boy who was thrown into the Tower at 10, into solitary confinement for 14 years, until the angelic Henry discovered he couldn’t get Katherine of Aragon as Arthur’s bride with that Yorkist heir alive. Tell me which tutors Warwick had, which Christmas events he was allowed out of the Tower to visit his cousins and sister, what household servants he had? Richard had him knighted, as if he was a real human, a real person, in Sept 1483, clearly anxious to then throw him off a parapet I guess; and he remained with his Yorkist cousins in Yorkshire, Sheriff Hutton, very possibly with the Montague cousins, Elizabeth of York, and for a time, John of Gloucester, oddly enough he seems to have been considered … a human being! As the dust was kicked up at Bosworth the FIRST thing Henry Sis was send Willoughy to Yorkshire to take Warwick hostage, and so the kid remained, for 14 long years. What was his behavior again that caused this treatment??? Or Henry Pole, the child who disappeared in the Tower with his father (well he know H8 had the father executed asap) but what if the son??? Huh. Funny, no one cares.

[@AlisonProctor-fq4kt]

You do not mention that Reginald Pole’s education was paid for by Henry VIII as his mother was all but bankrupt after her husband’s death. Naturally, Henry would be furious that he was not supported by Reginald.

[@archeanna1425]

I see there is an historical novel called Margaret Pole: The Countess in the Tower by Susan Higginbotham. Are you familiar with it? Or with the author? It isn't in my local library so I would like a review, if anyone has one to offer. The blurb says she was eventually beatified but the multiple generations of trauma she was in the middle of might be challenging to read about. Thanks for talking about her today.

[@hteysko]

I love Susan Higginbotham, though I haven't read this book. Let me check with Heidi, who does the book review site Adventures of a Tudor Nerd to ask if she's read it!

[@shelleysanders9666]

See also excellent novelist Philippa Gregory: ‘The King’s Curse’ on Margaret. Having a PhD, Gregory’s research is superb and she’s a very good wordsmith. The Cousins’ War & Tudor novels also have good family trees & interviews with her in the back.

[@paulmicheldenverco1]

I wonder if it occured to any of the courtiers to walk up to H VIII and put a dagger in his chest or a pillow on his face. It's hard to imagine anybody missing him and those who took out the trash would be pardoned; however, one who had use for H as a useful idiot against courtiers who were needed to die could. Along a similar track, somebody who wanted a rival eaten to death may have been mad.

[@robertfindley9000]

The true heir is in Australia

[@lindamoore9059]

Yes the Abbey/Hastings family (Loudons) are descended from George of Clarence but because of George's switching sides in the Wars of the Roses and his execution by Edward 1V ( his elder brother) , the Clarence descendants were barred from the line of succession, but that didn't stop them from being a "thorn in the flesh" of the Tudors.

[@Chipoo88]

Wasn’t it the king who’d paid for Reginald’s education at Magdalen College?

[@lisadwyer9699]

That’s my understanding

[@hteysko]

Yep, which makes the whole thing so much more difficult, I think.

[@alisaoliver1969]

They did a lot of poor judgements, and the Tudors didn't play that. They fought for the throne, and ruled with their RIGHTFUL paranoia because folks in their family were always plotting to replace them. Even though Henry 8 went too far, there was some fire under all that smoke, and it didn't help that Reginald wrote that paper against Anne Boelyn and ran to the safety of Rome. Henry 8 went against the family members he could reach.

[@annalisette5897]

Well, that's a study in poor judgement.....

[@einezcrespo2107]

Margaret's execution was not horrifying but also condemned. Many even in England felt Henry VIII went too far. And yes the Pole's were not the best decision makers.

[@preopdollop]

Great video .... but for the love of God, it's pronounced TEW-DOR, not TOO-DOR .... Americans! 🙄

[@hteysko]

Yeah, well, you all say aluminIUM, which is just clearly wrong on so many levels, so it's all potato potahto at this point. :)

[@dougogilvie5316]

Wow what an awful commercial I mean documentary. I couldn't watch the incoherent babbling.

[@hteysko]

You're a lot of fun at parties, aren't you?