Unreal Engine 5 is Killing Games | Cakez Reacts

[@GFClocked]

we all can see that games are blurrier and run worse than a decade ago, TI is trying to explain why, and yet the comments are using every kind of argument possible to discredit the guy. It doesnt even matter if you like him, or trust him, or dont want to donate to his cause, just use your eyes - the games are **LITERALLY** IN THE MOST LITERAL WORD POSSIBLE: WORSE. yes, GAMES ARE WORSE than they were a decade ago. and if you want to tell me 'oh no but its so much rtx, dlss is amazing omg human engineering' I DONT CARE. the games are blurry and run like sh**, IT IS WORSE, because THEY PLAY WORSE. it doesnt matter how shiny it is in screenshots. IT PLAYS WORSE

[@igonatangi]

Everyone seems surprised, but as someone who plays a lot of games: this guy just says what was on my mind.

[@gamejamreject]

This is why indie games are having more success every year, AAA studios take too much time on visuals not gameplay.

[@adamaccountname]

I'm sure they invest in motion blur to hide TAA because nobody wants motion blur in their games as we have eyes that do that for us for free with no shaders

[@gmanster_ster]

agree with the taa...give me a headache just like ai video. don't know why but both those things make me feel like vr sickness. I got over vr sickness but not these two things, I can't be the only one. yeah I think fxaa is winner atm.

[@heavymetalmixer91]

TAA sucks and I'm tired of so many recent games using it, mostly FPS, I just can't play them because of my motion sickness.

[@berenscott8999]

Okay, this is what I think, just stop doing Anti-Aliasing and live with the consequences. It doesn't look the best, but it's not blurred and you get a higher FPS.

[@headlesschickenfarm]

The biggest problem with this video is their goal. They want funding for a custom version of Unreal and are implying that they will release that custom engine even though that can never happen.

[@gendalfgray7889]

As i understood he making auto lod program so developer doesn't rely on nanite. May be he add all graphical stuff in a plugin. But i wan't paying attention that much.

[@RedFi6h]

why won't it happen?

[@headlesschickenfarm]

​@@RedFi6h Unreal is not FOSS. They do not own it and they are not paying for the commercial libraries that Unreal is licencing. If Unreal lets them do this then they are accepting liabilities based off another companies version of their engine. Legally they are pretty much required to shut them down. "Too Human" is not exactly the same but is close enough to serve as an example. If you want to redistribute and engine it needs to be a FOSS engine or one that you are creating yourself. You make games with Unreal not engines.

[@kaimaiiti]

People will donate to Threat Interactive who have never done anything but complain on KZbin, and will then vanish in a puff of smoke pocketing the cash. Instead, raise the anti aliasing issue with Epic, and donate money to the people who actually make the engine! Better still implement an alternate solution since the engine source is available, and submit it to Epic. Finally, if you are a game dev and make a compelling game (in any engine) you will not lose sales due to antialiasing.

[@MrSofazocker]

@@headlesschickenfarm TwinMotion and NVidia might like to have a word. No rly, why would you think that? Unreals Source code is accesible, and does not include proprietary code one would need to sublicense, I don't think. All dependencies are downloaded on build time. Also, Nvidias brnach exists? Also, "you make games with unreal not engines"... Ever heard about TwinMotion before they got aquired? It's literally a 3D Visualization Tool built ontop of Unreal, basically an engine built by an Engine. :P

[@kaimaiiti]

game development is a massive balancing act of cost/time/perf. Nanite, lumen and tsr are one compromise. Building dozens of lod meshes, baking lighting is an alternative compromise. You can pick one, but if you want dynamic lighting and less developer time the first option is probably superior. its all compromise.

[@MrSofazocker]

No it's not. The first are techniques to handle each edge-case. Nanite, Lumen or whatever you call future "silver-bullet" tech are attempts to "cheat" by stochastically sampling over time.. which turns out... has the same problems has well... stochastic accumulators do... they are not temporally stable nor do they converge fast, (nor do they have a guarantee that they will) So... one one hand you have artisans crafting what you see/hear/experience every minute. On the other, you have people going, "it's fine, just add something there"... Who's game do you want to play? The one, where a person cared abt each pixel you get to see? Or the game, people couldn't be bothered with shit? You, and probably all game devs, forgot one important thing in your "balancing equation". cost/time/perf is all good, but what value does it give the player? What value do handmade lods provide vs. a shotty decimated mesh? (yes, nanite and also UEs auto lod tools only do simple edge collapse, nothing intelligent here, it results in the worse possible case for topology, it has no concept of prserving UV seams etc. Nanite still has problems with holes and shearing, especially when using displacement...) Do any of these "cost saving measures" on the dev side, result in any gain or loss in value to the player?

[@rohitaug]

There is some truth here but also some misinfo. Try looking up footage of these games online, they are not nearly as blurry as shown in the video (although UE5 default TAA settings are pretty blurry I admit). The fact that he isn't a graphics programmer, has not released a single game, and is fundraising to make a custom version of UE5 is kind of a sus combo. I'd say if your game doesn't need Nanite or Lumen, then use Unity as it has better tooling and is more customizable (SRP is wild). There is no need for a custom branch of UE that doesn't have the things people use UE for.

[@MrSofazocker]

What misinformation was shared? Or was that comment abt the games not looking as blurry on your pc all? Unity has exactly the same features. TAA and a jittering camera. Soft shadows, screen-space AO, SSR and AO are TAA dependent in HDRP. URP can be handled differently, but still. Dunno abt SRP, I guess that's scriptable? Did they finally brought things back to pre 2012 conditions? Or are Unity devs still struggling with 3 different and all experimental renderes? Two Input Systems, 3 Sound Systems, 2 different compilers and 2 different package managers? Or are some still sticking to the built-in renderer?

[@rohitaug]

@@MrSofazocker One thing I thought was misinfo was comparing the PS4 TFLOPS with 3060 to say that SMAA would be 10x faster, totally ignoring that cache and bandwidth has to be taken into account. PS4 has a 4MB combined CPU and GPU cache whereas 3060 has 3MB GPU cache. I'd imagine the improvement would be 2x. Also "properly implemented" SMAA requires MSAA which doesn't work well with deferred renderers (which is required in UE due to material graphs creating shader permutations) and scales poorly to higher resolutions. Decima TAA would still probably be done with FXAA which would overblur, normal TAA should look better and be cheaper. Unity does have it's own mess with many ways of doing things but it's precisely because not everyone is happy with one solution (TAA for example). SRP allows one to write their own renderer, reuse render passes from URP or HDRP if they wish, and write anything custom on top. Not everyone should be expected to write these I understand but it's cool that you can do so without needing to edit the engine source code.

[@GFClocked]

even if that was true hypothetically, advising to use Unity that has insane drama and has burned all trust they had so much so that they had to fire their CEO, its not a good solution to go unity.

[@thev01d12]

Peoples started realising it when it was late. Unity games are much more intuitive, creative and fun to play than unreal ones. Epic is trying to make this a designer friendly engine where they could plug few nodes in and program a game. It's literally just a rendering showcase engine with shit ton of headaches from development perspective.

[@MrSofazocker]

Unity has exactly the same features. TAA and a jittering camera. Soft shadows, screen-space AO, SSR and AO are TAA dependent in HDRP. URP can be handled differently, but still. Also Unity bought the Bolts visual scripting addon, and Unities marketplace is much more full of "Survival Game Kit" type stuff, that you literally just have to import and plug together a game... how's that any different? Also... last I checked on itch or steam, all asset flips ever, are made in Unity. Seeing that Unity logo popup before you played some trash was the norm. Assetflips made in UE are a new phenomena.

[@sealsharp]

Frohes Fest du Kuchen!

[@Cakez77]

Frohe Weihnachten bro

[@Psy1nZero]

I understand more now than watching asmondgolds react for technical side thanks. I always thought it was my lack of top end hardware causing these issues.

[@NeatGames]

Thanks for explaining it clearly :D

[@ayzhol9620]

I didn't have a clue I have been watching it many times. Infact I am so thankful you have explain a bunch of this stuff. I don't know why the dude is explaining it so fast. What's the hurry? If he wants to change our views he needs a more baby steps video.

[@lucasa8710]

if the guy from original video took more time to explain the technologies he was talking about the video could reach much more non technical people which would be good for his vision, but assuming the viewer knows all he's talking about makes difficult to pay attention

[@MrSofazocker]

Aaand be 5 hours long and boring, so still noone would watch it. He is concise and gives visual examples for the layman, while using correct terminology and describes specific artefacts accurately. Or do you want him to take it from the beginning? (On the first day, God created the Stars, Sun and Moon...) It cannot be stated any other way, this guy did an amazing job with the video. If you really care abt the technology, every term he put on screen can be simply googled, and each word can get you HOURS of recordings of classes and TONS of research papers. Or just watch Introduction to Computer Graphics by Cem Yuksel. He's fun!

[@gendalfgray7889]

If you interested in UE you don't need to write entire engine. Old settings all still present in UE, developers need to enable them.

[@MrSofazocker]

It's almost as if defaults settings can be changed 🤔

[@gendalfgray7889]

@@MrSofazocker It cannot be disabled in newer versions?

[@lennysmileyface]

You would think they could do better with AI. Can they not make one that detects stair stepping and fix it?

[@headlesschickenfarm]

That is what DLSS was designed for it was not meant to be an Upscaler instead it was a TAA replacement. All solutions that fix aliasing without super sampling have blurring issues or are not consistent. Or they require temporal information which will cause ghosting this is the big problem with DLSS. Spatial Super sampling solutions like MSAA will work better but it is too expensive at 4k. It also does not work well when you are using differed rendering.

[@white_cloth]

@@headlesschickenfarm To be more specific, multisampling doesn’t work well with deferred rendering. However, regular supersampling is just rendering the image at a higher resolution and then downscaling that to native resolution using something like bilinear/bicubic interpolation. That should work with any rendering pipeline. Amnesia: The Bunker gives you the option to do this natively, and its HPL 3.5 engine uses a deferred renderer.

[@headlesschickenfarm]

@white_cloth Just to clarify the semantics and give context. I am using supersampling in the context of taking more than 1 sample per pixel. As used by Pharr and Humphries in "Physically Based Rendering" an Akenine-Moller, Haines and Hoffman in "Realtime Rendering". What you are referring to would be SSAA or FSAA and you are right although they are very expensive at 4k.

[@jonboi1127]

What language are you guys speaking?

[@leonardotemperanza5824]

You can still have automatic lods without nanite, that's what UE has done in the past (and still does). Nanite just makes it so you can use meshes with an insane amount of tris, which imo is something you should never do especially as an indie dev

[@MartinDlabaja]

Come on guys, slight blurriness never ruined a game. A gameplay is what ruins games. Not slightly blurry image!

[@boandersson190]

100+ fps and big worlds and super highend gfx on a toaster. Well … contrnt makers got a 4080…. but check steam stats for your reality check on normal gamer or just start an Xbox. Entitlement running rampart as per usual. Starting with gameplay is all to complain on AA video rendering texhniques in 4k…. meh

[@developerdeveloper67]

You know what is really killing games? Nothing. Games are fine.

[@Moonix7]

No games aren't fine, as developers realise more and more that advance tech exists to optimise games they arnt going to care about game optimisation and this isn't good. Game engines like unreal 5 also does the same thing. It's not very optimised as they just shove a bunch of new technology in the engine without caring about optimisation and soon in like what 5 years it is probably very likely that the 4090 is going to struggle to run new games if the game industry keeps doing less and less optimisation.

[@arl-t8d]

ignorant

[@MrSofazocker]

@@Moonix7 Without all the new AI, DLSS and RT making games harder to run, it would be too obvious that the new GPUs have not at all improved like previous generations. I mean just try it, google a benchmark of a GTX70s to a 90s, then compare a 20s to a 40s. Mind you, choose a older game. Comparing games, mostly old games from PS3-PS4 era, the difference in performance is a rounding error in some cases. Like rly, no difference between 20s and 40s cards, meanwhile there was like a 40% improvement going from 70s to 90s.

[@pythonxz]

You know what is killing AAA games? Executives.

[@LinucNerd]

0 :(

[@michaelalexson8359]

Why not 1 000 000 FPS atleast? Come on, 60FPS is an industry standart like 24 frames for movies. 75 FPS and above is only needed in a very dynamic games such as racing, on-line shooter, etc.

[@MrSofazocker]

Well, games on CRT did run that fast lol. (dunno what the refresh time is actually) He said target 60fps, by having your game render at 100fps comfortably. So no frame spike can ever bring the fps lower than 60. (typically limit the fps to 60 anyway, so you won't even know if it could render higher than that....) But we do all agree that 30fps is just poor.

[@kerojey4442]

because normal people have 144 refresh rate monitors, and 60fps games looks like sh*t

[@michaelalexson8359]

@@kerojey4442 you're wrong kiddo

[@kerojey4442]

@@michaelalexson8359 broke boy