Unveiling the Self: A Philosophical Journey | Philosophy of Meditation #2 with Pierre Grimes

[@janthonycologero9206]

What a gem to return to after hearing of his passing 😔 Thank you for just letting him do his thing. This was so beautiful. 🙏🏼

[@miguelangelous]

My prayers have been answered 🙏🏼 Pierre Grimes is still with us, and what a talk with Vervaeke & Rick

[@walterbraun3731]

Unfortunately, no longer - died at the beginning of June... such a remarkable guy!!!

[@mashraba.community]

I've been waiting so long for this connection to happen! Pierre is a gift to humanity. His voice deserves to be lifted up and his work is invaluable.

[@andrewseymore4506]

Pierre Grimes is such a treasure, thank you for having him. He’s one of the first teachers I came across who began waking me up and stirring in me a love of philosophy and the union of East and West

[@Lucasvoz]

Thanks for just letting him talk, John and Rick. I had a similar experience listening to Wolfgang Smith where I just appreciate getting a glimpse into the mind of someone who spent almost a century thinking about some of the topics we think about. It's an honour to sit in on this and I think you both did a great job of letting him show some of the lessons he picked up along the way. Hope you're doing well, guys!

[@opposingshore9322]

Finally!! The one person I’ve been waiting for on your channel: Pierre is truly the godfather of this work. Many years before people like John were on KZbin, Pierre was delivering philosophical nourishment to those of us who looked hard enough to find him!

[@MITM1111]

I LOVE Pierre's expression that Buddhism lacks the "logos." This is such a profound distinction. I never could put my finger on what it lacked for me. My experience in meditation always brought me deeply into the presence of "God' without all of the crap I had been brought up to believe in my Christian background. I found a home in merging both traditions. Meditation gave me the gift of being able to enter into any situation, spiritual gathering, everyday life as sacred. Each moment presents the invitation to the sacred. THank you thank you for pursuing this topic. I'm excited to see how this journey will work it's way into my experience.

[@howiewhitehouse1202]

Its only a Zen trick to emphasize the "Presence of an Absence" which is its own kind of ""logos""

[@gunterappoldt3037]

Richard Wilhelm translated the "道/Dao" (or "Tao", according to the Wade-Giles´ system of transcription) of the "Tao-Te King" (hp.: "Dàodéjing", that is, Lâo Dan´s "Book of the Way and its Power") into German as "Sinn" (´sense´, ´meaning´, ´direction´), thereby alluding to the Greek "logos" (´tongue´, ´language´, ´reason/logos´, or even New-Testamentian ´logos´ as a kind of "incarnated Holy Spirit"). Now, there´s a longer tradition in Far East, which regards Chán/Sôn/Zen/Thien as a kind of hybrid between philosophical/religious Daoism and Buddhism. And - "Voila!" - here we got it: a glimpse of the broader, holistic "field of meaning", resp. the semantic through-line between all the "regional epistemo-ontologies" involved, "Here, there, and everywhere" - yeah, the Beatles got it, too. :) @@howiewhitehouse1202

[@illusion5342]

Timestamp?

[@MITM1111]

39:26 @@illusion5342

[@MITM1111]

"...I hope that gave you something to work with as a series of questions Buddhism lacks one Greek element that changes and that is the logos they don't have a logos they have a meditation that brings you if you're lucky..."

[@mcnallyaar]

This conversation greatly affected me, prompting me to do some journaling on my alcoholism, and also some dream journaling.

[@paideia-e9u]

Thank you for posting and sharing and for the Noetic Society.

[@thegodofwar3744]

I'm going to be honest and speak freely here and say that my entire life's journey has been to know thyself. The pursuit of which is everything, the meditation and the philosophy. It is the all. And when you begin to know thyself, there it is, your heart, your happiness, your freedom, your courage. And I believe, it will protect me from the great changes that are coming. That's all I'll say about that. ty

[@ClaytonNyakana]

Wow, this was beautiful to participate with. I heard that Philosophy is a "way of being", kinda like a "stance of being". And we have the responsibility to practice it and gift it to all those we find ourselves participating with so that ours and their can come together in an expansive way to give more to us all. Pierre's description of Socrates going to the house of Glaucome and knowing "how to be with" the people who live there reminded me of John's description (in AFTMC series) of Jesus going to the outcasts and giving them his personhood so they could gain an experience of "how to be" there in a more attuned way that would then midwife their better selves. Such a profound conversation for me. Thanks John and Rick, your work is greatly appreciated.

[@tonym6566]

Great to see Pierre Grimes! Can’t wait

[@kengemmer]

Thank you for this dialogic exercise in the most urgent work of our time-the integration of the mystical core of the great world religions with philosophy and modern science.

[@happydays9084]

John, thanks, sir! Brilliant chats, as always! Thanks so much for inviting Pierre on, huge fan of his work and style of teaching. a living neoplatonist with unmeasurable knowledge in Plato and Greek Philosophy. His noetic society (I dedicated myself to his brilliant work for over 3 years) is a great school of thought. (For all the Good, and the One).. Please do help Pierre publish his new book! His wisdom must be made available and, more importantly, can't be lost. Keep up the good fight! 🌏Pierre's wisdom rocks! ❤

[@sendakan666]

Pierre Grimes is a wise and truly unique voice, thank you for sharing the interview. Totally agree that Plato has been misinterpreted in the current academic discourse. Not sure about Buddhism missing the 'logos'. While it is true that Zen often has a non-verbal approach, it was a reaction to an obsession with philosophizing in several other branches of Buddhism.

[@RomanCampolo]

Hard to describe my appreciation of 1:01:07

[@jasonmitchell5219]

That was pretty special. Cheers.

[@arono9304]

There’s an audio glitch at 1:11:00 which makes it sound as if Vervaeke and Grimes are talking simultaneously - rest asured all, neither of them was silencing the other ;) Great talk!

[@missh1774]

What an amazing person 💛

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Good Girl! 👌 Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱

[@OscarGolph]

What a refreshing dose of living man, i will defo get his book, great conversation and a great listen, thanks.

[@JDG602]

So glad to see Pierre Grimes is still kicking and doing what he does. His videos on Plato and the Neoplatonists are original and profound. I discovered him while reading the Timaeus and found his videos on that dialogue. Philosophy is one of the great traditions that give me some meaning and both John and Pierre have helped me along the path. Thank you to you both, you are appreciated.

[@chrisparker2118]

Sadly, Pierre passed away yesterday.

[@russellmason5095]

It was an interesting talk, but I would like to push back on Pierre's comments about Buddhism. I think Pierre is talking about Zen Buddhism specifically rather than Buddhism as was set out in the earliest recoverable teachings of the Buddha even though he uses the term Buddhism in a general way. John pushes back on his insistence that Buddhism has no logos by saying that 'dhamma' can be understood to have an equivalent meaning to 'logos'. Although both words have multiple dimensions of meaning, there is an interpretation in which they both seem to refer to a cosmic or natural law which humans can - and should - align themselves with. The purpose of the Eightfold Noble Path in the earliest surviving formulations of the Buddha's teachings is to align yourself with this dhamma. Although Pierre qualifies his statement by saying that he has not met anyone who overcame ignorance and achieved liberation via Buddhism, anyone with even a cursory knowledge of Buddhism knows that this is the exact claim that classical Buddhism made: you can overcome suffering by understanding the the causes of suffering. I would not rush into assuming that Neo-Platonism is a better framework than Theravada. Both need to be respected and taken seriously.

[@mills8102]

It is wonderful to hear from Pierre Grimes. I believe he is a true master of philosophy. Thank you for sharing this. The pathologos is very resonant with the concept of emotional learning from Bruce Ecker's coherence therapy and memory reconsolidation. I see powerful convergence here. I suspect fuzzy trace theory may also be relevant.

[@rtizzi]

Beautiful.

[@mashraba.community]

Please update us on your last comment about helping Pierre in finding a publisher for his book! Sounds important.

[@themoralcube]

Very exciting talk!

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

💤😴💤

[@ericwickeywoodworkersurfbo6135]

Awesome discussion. I've been teaching Plato for a number of years now, and it is a great joy to bring back the ancients! I loved the discussion about the definite article. In the Pheado, Socrates says that when you're talking about the Ideas, you always have to add the word "itself, as in "the Good itself." It always struck me as weird because it's just a word, what difference does it make? But it does make a difference. Speaking if "the Good itself," when in the Republic Socrates refuses to talk about it and instead talk about an image, I always took this to mean that second best is good enough for politics. The anti-city, anti-political tone of the Republic is pretty relentless. But as usual, more to be said.

[@alexandrazachary.musician]

Hmmmm… that maybe true particularly for Chan and Zen teachings, that they resist using the mind to discover the mind. In Theravadan epistemology the mind is most definitely used to discover the mind, as are all the perceptive mechanisms. John, I’d love you to talk to my primary teacher Ajahn Sujato or another scholarly Theravadan like Ajahn Sona or Bhikkhu Bodhi. ❤️🙏🏽

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

dhamma: the Pāli cognate of “dharma”. However, in this case, it invariably refers to the teachings of Gautama Buddha, rather than the eternal law (“sanātana dharma”, in Sanskrit). In this book, it is used in the former sense, that is, of “holy and righteous concepts and deeds”. Therefore, the term “Buddhist dhamma/dharma” is somewhat nonsensical, since dhamma/dharma is fundamentally non-sectarian. Despite being the most atheistic human being to have ever existed, I often PRAY that I am not in the process of consuming a meal whenever I hear a Buddhist monk or lay teacher referring to his or her lecture as being a “dhamma talk”. If you have carefully read the entirety of this Holy Scripture, “F.I.S.H”, and you have listened to many Buddhist sermons, you may have already guessed the reason for my fervent prayer. This is because the assertion that the overwhelming majority of Buddhist monks are teaching authentic dharma is so excruciatingly cringe-worthy and laughable, I am genuinely fearful of choking on my food upon hearing such silly claims! First of all, the founder of Buddhism himself, Siddhārtha Gautama was hardly a paragon of virtue, having abandoned his family in order to become a mendicant monk, being an animal-abusing carnist, and encouraging females to become loose women (so-called “nuns”). In my half a century of life, I have only ever encountered one or two Buddhists who adhered to (actual) dharma, so in that sense, they were factually SUPERIOR to Gautama himself! For instance, the abbot of the largest Buddhist society in my homeland, Australia, believes that it is dharmic (legitimate) for men to insert their reproductive organs inside the faeces holes of other men, and of course, like his idol, Gautama, he is a murderer of poor, innocent, defenceless animals, and a feminist. Furthermore, despite being an indigenous Englishman, and a graduate of one of the most prestigious universities on earth, University of Cambridge, he is entirelyunable to coherently speak his native tongue! Should not a supposed “spiritual leader” be an exemplar in at least his own language? Of course, no human being (including so-called “Avatars”) who has ever lived was morally perfect, but those who claim to be spiritual masters ought to be beyond reproach in respect to their own ethical practices. In the aforementioned case, Gautama should have returned to his family as soon as he understood the immorality of his actions, just as I, when I began adhering to dharma, repaid two persons from whom I had stolen goods and cash. Furthermore, assuming that Gautama was really a carnist (and knowing the typical diet of Bhārata, it would be safe to assume that he was at LEAST a lacto-vegetarian, and therefore an animal-abusing criminal), he was certainly sufficiently intelligent to understand that it is unnatural for an adult human to suckle the teats of a cow or a goat, and that human beings are fully herbivorous. Otherwise, how could he possibly be considered a member of the priestly class of society (“brāhmaṇa”, in Sanskrit) if he was not able to even comprehend some of the most basic facts of life? Make no mistake, carnism (see that entry in this Glossary) is a truly abominable, horrendous, wicked, hateful, evil, immoral, sinful, demonic ideology, as is feminism and unlawful divorce (in the case of Prince Gautama, the abandonment of his wife and son would be considered an act of divorce). When a so-called Zen Buddhist priest asks another MALE so-called Zen Buddhist priest (as occurred in a video interview I just watched on the Internet), "Do you and your husband have any kids?”, one can be fully assured that the lowest point in the history of humanity has been reached. The fact that both the aforementioned so-called priests are American men, is not coincidental, since the most decadent religionists seem to be of Western/first-world origin. I don't believe I have come across a single Western Buddhist monastic who is not at least slightly left-leaning (“leftism” being a common term in the English-speaking world for “adharmic”).

[@mashraba.community]

Or Ajahn Thanissaro (Geoff). He is a sort of Pierre Grimes for Theravada Buddhism.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

@@mashraba.community dhamma: the Pāli cognate of “dharma”. However, in this case, it invariably refers to the teachings of Gautama Buddha, rather than the eternal law (“sanātana dharma”, in Sanskrit). In this book, it is used in the former sense, that is, of “holy and righteous concepts and deeds”. Therefore, the term “Buddhist dhamma/dharma” is somewhat nonsensical, since dhamma/dharma is fundamentally non-sectarian. Despite being the most atheistic human being to have ever existed, I often PRAY that I am not in the process of consuming a meal whenever I hear a Buddhist monk or lay teacher referring to his or her lecture as being a “dhamma talk”. If you have carefully read the entirety of this Holy Scripture, “F.I.S.H”, and you have listened to many Buddhist sermons, you may have already guessed the reason for my fervent prayer. This is because the assertion that the overwhelming majority of Buddhist monks are teaching authentic dharma, is so excruciatingly cringe-worthy and laughable, I am genuinely fearful of choking on my food upon hearing such silly claims! First of all, the founder of Buddhism himself, Siddhārtha Gautama was hardly a paragon of virtue, having abandoned his family in order to become a mendicant monk, being an animal-abusing carnist, and encouraging females to become loose women (so-called “nuns”). In my half a century of life, I have only ever encountered one or two Buddhists who adhered to (actual) dharma, so in that sense, they were factually SUPERIOR to Gautama himself! For instance, the abbot of the largest Buddhist society in my homeland, Australia, believes that it is dharmic (legitimate) for men to insert their reproductive organs inside the faeces holes of other men, and of course, like his idol, Gautama, he is a murderer of poor, innocent, defenceless animals, and a filthy feminist. Furthermore, despite being an indigenous Englishman, and a graduate of one of the most prestigious universities on earth, University of Cambridge, he is entirely unable to coherently speak his native tongue! Should not a supposed “spiritual leader” be an exemplar in at least his own language? Of course, no human being (including so-called “Avatars”) who has ever lived was morally perfect, but those who claim to be spiritual masters ought to be beyond reproach in respect to their own ethical practices. In the aforementioned case, Gautama should have returned to his family as soon as he understood the immorality of his actions, just as I, when I began adhering to dharma, repaid two persons from whom I had stolen goods and cash. Furthermore, assuming that Gautama was really a carnist (and knowing the typical diet of Bhārata, it would be safe to assume that he was at LEAST a lacto-vegetarian, and therefore an animal-abusing criminal), he was certainly sufficiently intelligent to understand that it is unnatural for an adult human to suckle the teats of a cow or a goat, and that human beings are fully herbivorous. Otherwise, how could he possibly be considered a member of the priestly class of society (“brāhmaṇa”, in Sanskrit) if he was not able to even comprehend some of the most basic facts of life? Make no mistake, carnism (see that entry in this Glossary) is a truly abominable, horrendous, wicked, hateful, evil, immoral, sinful, demonic ideology, as is feminism and unlawful divorce (in the case of Prince Gautama, the abandonment of his wife and son would be considered an act of divorce). When a so-called Zen Buddhist priest asks another MALE so-called Zen Buddhist priest (as occurred in a video interview I just watched on the Internet), "Do you and your husband have any kids?”, one can be fully assured that the lowest point in the history of humanity has been reached. The fact that both the aforementioned so-called priests are American men, is not coincidental, since the most decadent religionists seem to be of Western/first-world origin. I don't believe I have come across a single Western Buddhist monastic who is not at least slightly left-leaning (“leftism” being a common term in the English-speaking world for “adharmic”).

[@martintore38]

Great conversation! @John, curious when the follow up discussion with Seth Allison on attachment theory will be held / posted?

[@johnvervaeke]

Soon. It is being planned.

[@martintore38]

Thanks John. Looking forward to it. Other than hearing more from Seth, I'd also be curious to hear about your personal experiences with IFS and whatever effect you feel that it's had on you (if it's not too personal of course!).

[@oliverjamito9902]

What is strong holds nor able to determine if thy spirituality can be kept nor can chewed up with a spiritual TEETH. Chewing spirituality. Can be eaten if Hungry or spit out without taste! Many gets lost concerning...students before walking into the Unseen. Turn your Headlights on! While given a New Ears to HEAR the Voice! Thank you Pops for attending. Comes with LOVE YOU TOO! Who's that familiar voice? For Thee! Love you pop Pierre.

[@NightofFungi]

I aspire to find a husband who wants to review dreams with me every morning. I have some real doozies. I love Pierre. Love you guys. Thank you.

[@gunterappoldt3037]

Now that I heard this talk, I earnestly wish You could take Kristoffer Schipper, the author of the "Taoist Body", on board - I hope, he´s still sound and well. He seems to be one of the rare authentic European voices of Daoism here, in the occident.

[@RobinTurner]

The cognitive linguist in me is intrigued, though not entirely convinced by the argument about the definite article. Personally I found studying and later speaking languages that had no articles (Chinese and Turkish, respectively) quite liberating, but I suppose it does limit your ability to posit universal concepts from adjectives (even English is limited in this respect compared to, say, German). So Latin's lack of the definite article could be one of the reasons why Marcus Aurelius chose to write in Greek - but if that's the case it kind of negates the anti-Stoic argument, as that leaves us Seneca as the only major Stoic to write in Latin (I'm not counting Musonius Rufus, as we only have lecture notes). So we have a school of philosophy whose main thinkers were almost all either Greek or wrote in Greek, but it somehow represents the Roman worldview? But maybe what Pierre is criticising is not Stocisism as such but what it became in the Roman Empire and was later transmitted (via Seneca and Cicero) to the British Empire as what might be called "vulgar Stoicism".

[@timbrennan7250]

Awesome interview, but at the end the dude tried to talk over Pierre for like 3 mins, that was really weird

[@colorfulbookmark]

I also have revere that philosophers say Buddhism lacks the logos. It is reality in modern Korea, which is often harshier than the West, even Jinul's ideas are reinterpretive in ontological political purpose. Jinul's main ideas that all humans have 佛心, so 頓悟漸修 for example, "all humans" and "learning gradually" or such vernacular technical thoughts are practiced, even when Dr.Denis Noble talk about sex, some people participated at the place reacted non-verbal ways. It is symbolic in some transformations experienced in Korea and people tend to agitate more than people in the West. The lacking in logos means easier transformation to certain virtues. So we need to be neutral when it makes silence over some imprtant matters about identity. "All humans have 佛心, so 頓悟漸修" is unfair principle, we can perceive right at the moment how it means, but what makes difference from it? Lacking the logos. I set my right aside when some Buddhism lacking logos, and it is also reinterpreted so it was very important thing happened to my life, it is still continued today. In this condition, I live my life ^^

[@m.francis194]

Logos has nothing to do with reason or the mind for that matter. It is an inner resonance that when attention is left to rest there, destroys ignorance and reveals your true nature as well as that of the world. It is a sound current also known as the Word, OM, Music of the Spheres, Sound of Silence, etc. It can be perceived within when the mind calms down enough. It is not heard with the ear like phenomenal sounds, rather it’s tuned into. “The Word was with God and the Word was God” is referring to this sound current and it’s source, which is your Being and is not separate from the one universal Being. The mind can never know the truth as the truth can’t be conceptualized. You don’t have to stop it though. You need to remove attention from the mind and put it on the current. More accurately, stop projecting attention outwards on thoughts and objects and let it rest in its source. The current will take care of everything if you’re earnest and don’t cling to analysis and conceptualization. It brings everything into harmony. The best part is it’s there ringing in the background right now whether you’re aware of it or not. Reason is a really useful tool, but it can’t take you over the finish line. Just my two cents. Have a great day.

[@howiewhitehouse1202]

Can it be true AND Part-True -yes when philosophy Meets Buddhism and they become Intimate Lovers 'The Love of Wisdom AND the Wisdom of Love" !!!!

[@pantherstealth1645]

🤟

[@projectmalus]

"appearance and reality: the One-many problem" presentation by Pierre Grimes kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5mzpICpfc-jaas I found really helpful, had it on mp3 on replay during a power outage a few months back.

[@geoffreydawson5430]

If you have time to breathe, you have time to meditate (Ajahn Chah). I seem to like challenging Zen, probably because I was dryly taught it through academic philosophy (by Professor Robert Wicks). So pleased Pierre is positively using his vehicle after being used as machine gun fodder. I know the feeling. I wonder what went through the minds of the Japanese when swords became obsolete. Or were swords just a material projection for cutting down one's Khleshas? Most likely for power.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

meditate: to think on, from Latin “meditat-”, meaning “contemplated”, from the verb “meditari”, from a base, meaning “measure”. In most religious/spiritual traditions, particularly those originating in Bharāta (India), meditation is a mental practice in which one either allows thoughts to appear in the mind (and simply observe those thoughts without judgement) or else one tries to focus all thought upon a single object. That object can be almost anything, yet most commonly is a religious figure (such as God, a demigod, or a spiritual master), a point in one’s visual field (such as a candle flame), a brief prayer (normally referred to as a “mantra”), or else, observing or focusing on one’s own breath (a fundamental part of “vipassanā”, in the Buddhistic tradition [“vipaśyanā”, in Sanskrit]). The main benefit of meditational practices is to free the mind of superfluous thoughts. Some individuals in the so-called “ultra-spiritual” community mistakenly believe that the cause of suffering is any thought whatsoever, and therefore, embark on a fruitless endeavour to eradicate all thoughts from the mind (or at least from the intellect - see Chapter 05). How I wish that every single one of those persons end-up in a coma for the remainder of their lives, since that is the only way that they will possibly achieve their impossible goal. Humorously, even coma patients can experience dream thoughts, so even then, their aim may be thwarted! Fortunately, as demonstrated in Chapter 15 of this “Final Instruction Sheet for Humanity”, the source of suffering is NOT due to thoughts as such, but due to a misunderstanding of how life operates. The cure for such nescience is unerring knowledge. In fact, I would posit that excessive meditational practices, such as that observed by the stereotypical Hindu/Buddhist monk who flees to a mountain cave in order to meditate for about fifteen hours per day, is actually detrimental to one’s spiritual development, because it weakens the intellect. Just as the physical body requires regular exercise, the intellectual dimension of the human person also needs to be exercised via the study of philosophy and yoga, which is especially important for those who profess to be spiritual teachers. Therefore, a healthy balance between contemplative practice, intellectual endeavour, and physical exercise is most beneficial. Possibly the most apposite form of meditation for the overwhelming majority of humans is a kind of ACTIVE meditation, in which one is perpetually contemplating how to best benefit society. Because it is practically impossible for one to fully control one’s thoughts, one should use the hyperactive nature of the intellect to its advantage, by constantly devising methods how to further dharma. This is the principal meditation practice of the current World Teacher Himself, The Saviour of Humanity, Jagadguru Svāmī Vegānanda. Some persons believe that one can learn the “secrets of life” (that is, to fully understand life/existence, and how to live one’s life in accordance with the universal, Divine Will) by sitting in the lotus position and focusing one’s attention on the base (or tip) of one’s nose for several hours per day! Undoubtedly, some have received wise insights during their meditation practice, but to assume that one can replace the accumulated wisdom of the sages over the past twenty thousand years or so, with an introspective path of illumination, is, sad to say, one of the many delusions of pseudo-spirituality. None of the great sages in history were so naturally enlightened as to dispense with a living guru. Even a single day spent at the feet of an actual spiritual master can be more valuable to gaining knowledge and insight into the meaning of life, than an entire lifetime of meditating on one’s navel (figuratively speaking).

[@geoffreydawson5430]

May you be well. @@ReverendDr.Thomas

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

@@geoffreydawson5430, respected British anthropology professor, Dr. Edward Dutton, has demonstrated that “LEFTISM” is due to genetic mutations, caused by poor breeding strategies. 🤡 To put it simply, in recent decades, those persons who exhibit leftist traits such as egalitarianism, feminism, gynocentrism, socialism, multiculturalism, transvestism, homosexuality, perverse morality, and laziness, have been reproducing at rates far exceeding the previous norm, leading to an explosion of insane, narcissistic SOCIOPATHS in (mostly) Western societies.

[@mikegarrigan5182]

John, your body language suggest you were a bit uncomfortable. If you were, you might be unable to comment.

[@Jacob011]

Lol, what a challenge!

[@jonyspinoza3310]

😬

[@NothingTheGreat]

Go on... lol

[@kafiruddinmulhiddeen2386]

It’s too late for Europe. Better luck next time.

[@projectmalus]

I admire the efficiency of your use of words, the terse communication of fatalistic, sardonic and propositional.

[@kafiruddinmulhiddeen2386]

@@projectmalus thanks! It is predictive, not fatalistic. Also notice it is cyclic (there will be a “next time”)

[@projectmalus]

@@kafiruddinmulhiddeen2386 thanks for your reply, does the cyclic circle in One spot and therefor there is no next time? I was thinking lately in terms of a fork in the path where cleverness forks off of the intelligence path. This clever fork can return to the other path (the main one on a world level) or sort of dither in this cyclic kind of whirlpool where it eventually disappears. This can be seen as countries or humanity in general (or an individual) either sequestering biomass or energy and removing the intelligent quotient by simplifying the interaction possibilities. Which is where I think the cyclic spirals, and so there's a ripple effect.

[@kafiruddinmulhiddeen2386]

@@projectmalus You may be right… if as you say, cleverness (and the associated biomass) forks off from the main circle in an effort to evolve, and fails because it ‘forgets’ its purpose, and eventually dies out (spirals into itself as you say?), that still leaves the main circle. If that is large enough, it will heal and even benefit from the entropy in its vicinity. Do you know what the forks and the main circles are on the present day Earth, and which of them are healing? In the higher cosmic sense, our species as a whole will evolve into another when we are physically unfit, but I don’t believe we are there yet. Nevertheless we are at a cusp of a new Era of wisdom. This will become clear to more people in 2024/2025 and they will start recognizing the main circle and their origins. Shall I be the victim, Thrown like a rag doll, Or will I be the storm, With vengeance for all, Or will I be the eye, Comforting and calm, Watching from the center, When all is torn down.

[@simritnam612]

"Western philosophy was the problem with Europe... until i invented platonic philosophy"

[@projectmalus]

Stoicism when the enemy 1) is unseen 2) been given approval and 3) has the nature of a Chinese finger puzzle. The proportioned control of the world thru roads seems perfect for Stoicism in Roman times but I guess the languages of trade, family and sacred became confused, possibly thru a higher consumption of grain affecting each self in half a dozen ways. The cleverness of the road doubled down on the cleverness of making the plentiful grain (which is aggressive yet self suffocating) somewhat more digestible. As the efficiency of production increases, self seems to move up into the group again, like before the Garden, where the fruit in the clearing is the grass fruit. Rice is connected with water in which self is reflected, the mountains are reflected. Rice is cheap so probably what was ingested (fed to) the person sitting under the Bo tree, they didn't eat much of it, and this is lucky rather than intelligent. Compromise of this kind only works after a certain state of "enlightenment" has been reached. Just some thoughts, thanks. The heavier food of European leads to antagonistic knowledge affordance thru objectification of self, while the water/zein protein/reflection leads to understanding thru sublimation of self. The Stoic moves into control of the environment as group self. the Eastern is the individual with self as environment, if that makes any sense. Stoic vs stoic.