UP 4014 Big Boy Freight Train starts The Great Race Across the Midwest

[@stevenspaziani9159]

Seeing the Big Boy brought back to life is one of the greatest things to happen to the industry in many many years. Can't wait to see it doubleheaded with the challenger, maybe a tripple header with all 3.

[@jameskarg3240]

sadly, challenger was retired about the same time Big Boy was brought back. I think UP realized they didnt quite have the budget for BOTH to be running. Nice to imagine, but sadly even the largest railroad in America cant afford it.

[@WAL_DC-6B]

Boy (Big too!), this is mesmerizing watching 4014 effortlessly doing it's thing on the UP mainline. I see this was video recorded along U.S. 30 much of which is the classic Lincoln Highway across the United States. Thanks for sharing!

[@abc123546879]

I would take the STEAM Whistle over the air horn any time.

[@organbuilder272]

Skip - Once more splendid footage of a monument to US industry and UP strength. You videos should be an example of 'How To' for all those interested in rail photography. Beautiful pcaing shots. Thanks for your contribution to history.

[@57Jimmy]

Beautiful majestic machine showing the awesome power provided to drive the massive wheels. A true machine struttin’ her stuff!

[@carbonfiber1995]

These locomotives are the only trains that has a mechanical soul. Just look at that beauty.

[@dobermanpac1064]

I’m glad folks are asking questions and others are answering them. This is the only one running folks. Better ask away while some of the old guys still remember!! 😎

[@awildjared1396]

it'd be nice to see her pull a 5 mile long freight like they used too back in the golden age of steam

[@Hawkers02]

That's only on straight and level track

[@awildjared1396]

There's enough of that in this country, its just whether or not UP wants to make it happen

[@pwo128]

Great video. The relatively flat terrain means she's not working very hard at all...you can see the engineer has the valve cut-off set to almost mid gear in some parts. An amazing feat of engineering getting her running again.

[@newmanwhitmire2235]

When I was 10 I walked by the engine through its stream cloud. I never will forget that moment. Newman Whitmire

[@brendanliamgill99]

The king of the rails has returned

[@jimbridge4166]

Retired UPRR conductor here. Nice camera work, Skip.

[@SkipW]

thanks for the kind words, Conductors run the RR often the engineer gets the glory but remember that the train never moves, till the conductor says so.

[@lucamedaglia6762]

It's one of the most beautiful steam engine in the world. I love it. Nice video

[@dblkrailfan]

Now that's a locomotive. She's out strutting her stuff at high speed. Guess the ET44AC was just a dynamic brake assist. She could pull it.

[@rbrtlws46]

he could pull it

[@sammolloy1]

...could pull a whole string of them

[@daleeasternbrat816]

A lot of people comment that they want to see this locomotive pull a big long heavy train fast. Me too! I think 4014 has a good chance of doing that soon simply because he people who rebuilt and operate this engine want to see it too. I don't get tired of watching this machine.

[@dustydean56]

I was fortunate enough to have trackside seats in Knapp Wisconsin when this beauty thundered through. There is nothing like it. I'll never forget it ! Great video !

[@75Bird455]

Skip's video's are the one's I wait for. Best quality, hands down.

[@JMun-pu7mk]

Great video. Thank you. It's great to see a part of history resurrected, and put back to work. Steam; awesome power. Let the tree huggers whine!

[@joankamp4513]

Big WOW. That whistle always reminds me of blowing a whistle through water. Love what sounds like an answering whistle.

[@richardsnyder8]

Thanks for this excellent pacing video! It's great to see this wonderful engine restored and rolling!

[@Edison73100]

Amazing work done by the shop men and women

[@xenomorph2056]

Dude you have the BEST pacing videos on the internet!! LOVE everything about it!!

[@xenomorph2056]

Lol I know...I just like the pacing videos of 4014, 3985, 844, 4449, and others on this channel the best! They're the most steady and exact.

[@28yogy4todd]

Ok this video wins. Best I’ve seen so far! Thank you! The 7000 Horsepower giant is running beautifully!

[@Bubbarain717]

I wish that I can go see her... 😩😭 vary beautiful locomotive! It would be neat see her pull an intermodal train or some auto racks.

[@barrel6468]

Big Boy is a tank on rails

[@Union4014]

u mean me

[@barrel6468]

Big Boy 4014 you handsome boi

[@Union4014]

*blowz whistle*

[@barrel6468]

Big Boy 4014 :D

[@Union4014]

STOP IT DRIVER

[@garymckinley620]

This brings me back to a time when my Great Granddad who was a conductor on the D & R GW would stop in the town where I lived and take me and my brother to the train yards and get us up inside the cab while the cars were getting switched around. I have to say my favorite thing was when the engineer would let me pull the handle for the whistle.

[@davidking8968]

Awsome I’m giving a thumbs up,and going to watch this with my grandson,that he just had a birthday all trains theme 👍

[@SkipW]

Happy Birthday

[@zimmlock]

To bad I live in Europe, we only have tiny steam engines compared to this panicle of steam power

[@TonoFonseca]

Yes, road vehicles and rail vehicles in Europe were built smaller, to accommodate the tighter areas and whatnot. North America had no such size constraints, but longer distances.

[@robyn051]

Most steam engines are tiny compared to the big boy

[@cliffcosynerflight5253]

ah but Europe especially in UK has some of the most beautiful locomotives in the world . who would thought of doing an high speed rail service during the steam era . streamliners guess you guys have good taste for style

[@JimHerbertOutdoors]

Very cool. I work in New Lenox 20 feet from the tracks the "joliet rocket" was on.. got to see it multiple times. I wish this one was a little closer I dont think I'm going to make it. Thanks for the vid... at least I get to see it on here!

[@davidking8968]

Amazing job on this big boy,I’ve Ben watching EAA air show all week then I find this awsome big boy loco I’m amazed at how these and wall aircraft still going ,it shows how good these machines really was.

[@BobDenny]

The best rail pacing videos on the net!! Thanks so much. It’s like I am there.

[@SkipW]

I try, thanks for the kind words.

[@JSmith-sy7km]

UP should have either diesel 4884 or 4014 run with the Big Boy all of the time!

[@ZEDU657]

You always get such great footage! Thank you, sir!

[@SkipW]

thanks for watching

[@phillip_mcguinness7025]

5:28 You can see the diesel bouncing over the track in the background, Big Boy just makes the rail get out of the way.

[@SWITCHMASHER]

STEEL IN POWER AND BEAUTY IN MOTION

[@mgtowdarrelldundee8643]

He's pulling with no effort at all..king of the rails shows us why he is proclaimed the big boy

[@BigShip98]

That whistle seems to be a lot louder than the diesel horn. Maybe it's just from the diesel being farther away. In any case, the 4014 has got a nice sounding whistle!!

[@SkipW]

sounded like they were holding back on it just a light blast

[@acb6256]

It is indeed. Coming from the UK we are not used to whistles being blown so often and for so long, to the point where it detracts from the elegance of the engine in motion. Is the driver showing off?

[@lonahansen4990]

The UP has had it pulling revenue freight already.

[@lonahansen4990]

@@acb6256 not showing off. There are regulations on whistle warnings at crossings. The engineer is doing what's required.

[@jacksalvin364]

On 1st ferry moves between excursions, 4014 pulls 61 cars of freight train to Omaha, Nebraska.

[@chesterroaden2428]

Ed, you must be very proud. And, rightfully so!

[@robertheinkel6225]

Three tenders? Water and fuel must be getting harder to find. She is such a graceful old girl.

[@kurtvonfricken6829]

He. Big Boy is a guy.

[@douglasgroff7648]

The original black tender holds 24,000-25,000 gallons of water and about 6,000 gallons of #5 fuel oil. The yellow tenders each hold about 27,000 gallons of water.

[@leomenchey3726]

Yellow tenders are holding water for every unit it takes three to four units of water

[@bobnelson2828]

The engineer needs whistle lessons. There is a real finesse to get it right.

[@grandpa71]

In 1948 my father was driver of she, test drive at Urals, USSR.

[@Edyth_Hedd]

Yeah, sure he was. And then he was the first cosmonaut to reach the moon, yes?

[@grandpa71]

@@Edyth_Hedd It was idea after WWII to buy powerful steamloko in the USA and some number were delivered for test drive. But in Russian conditions its were not sufficient because a lot of mountains and short turns. My father was steam loko driver from 1942 to 1959. Sorry for my English.:)

[@dommopa4464]

Yea, and you guys are living on the moon.

[@organbuilder272]

Okay, Your Dad was a steam locomotive driver. Russia (USSR) did have many US built engines over there for the war effort. Likely your Dad did drive a US locomotive but it wasn't a 4000 series Big Boy. They were all used by UP furing the way and 17 have been since scrapped. Only 8 remain and they are all in the USA. Cheers to your Dad.

[@grandpa71]

robert shaw Thank you. May be it was a legend of my old Dad.

[@francispotter5300]

Thanks for your videos what a beauty Doug in Ga Good old American know how proud to be an 🇺🇸

[@abc123546879]

Love Steam Engines they to put more of them in service.

[@MLPMaverick89]

Going to go see Big Boy tomorrow. Can't wait!

[@susbox5554]

Have fun catching up with her

[@MLPMaverick89]

@@susbox5554 she's going to be in west Chicago. Easy to do when she's standing still.

[@stephensmith799]

Amazing that the cab is so steady. I'd have expected it to be kicking around more with a loco of that length....

[@georgesteele2157]

That thing was a monster.

[@randyrucker4346]

Best video I've seen so far of 4014.

[@randallfawc7501]

Great vids as always Skip. The "Challenger maximum smoke" was one of the best also!

[@francispotter5300]

4014 running better all the time thanks UP great video (Doug in Ga)

[@SkipW]

thanks for watching

[@jamesfalker2947]

love the sound of those drivers loping along!!

[@Megatron2100]

@DieselDoug77 seems to have pretty much everything right as far as I've seen. Good on him. Knowledgeable comments are a rare treasure out here in internet wilderness.

[@michaelglass4701]

I'm going to see her Monday, it's going to be Storm's, I'm still going to see her 👍😊

[@michaelglass4701]

Stella smith , I'm going on Metra

[@JRandallEllis]

3 more days and I'll see him in person!

[@davidking8968]

May Branson Karter just turned 5 gives a big thumbs up to your steam locomotive 👍

[@jeffgarrett2114]

Man I wish the big boy would make it's way into southern ohio I'd live to see it up close

[@ZackarySchejbalCODBO2RGM2]

Going to see her tomorrow where I live! Just heard news she rolled in. So stoked! >:D

[@SkipW]

Be There

[@kidonkim4073]

Look so beautiful wow great power~~~~!!! 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻

[@mikewinkelman7015]

Great video super engine

[@robertwillett9204]

Absolutely gorgeous.

[@robertwillett9204]

Whistle sounds better, too.

[@robertweldon7909]

Here we see what 4014 was built for. I wonder if 4014 feels the draw bar and says YES now were doing it. ;-)

[@robyn051]

This is not what the big boy was designed for hence why it’s barely working hard at all

[@RDC_Autosports]

could you imagine that thing hitting a semi stuck on the tracks.... that engine alone is just shy of a million pounds!

[@narcissistectomy5134]

You mean slice through a semi truck 😳

[@MagnetOnlyMotors]

2:00 it’s nice how both engines are nearly in rotation synchronism. 3 minutes later and they are not.

[@mikehammer8737]

They should've taken it back to New York where it was built.

[@conniewaldby5524]

Can't the factory was long ago torn down, there is just a historical marker that commemorates the site.

[@maxhamilton8224]

Wooo, 4am notification in Australia

[@SkipW]

sorry about that

[@yuwonoabu5556]

A big mechinne Steam of loco. Salam from Indonesia..

[@chrischiampo7647]

😀😀😀😀👍🏼😊😊😊😊👍🏼😮💨💨💨💨💨💨💨💨💨💨💨💨💨😲💨💨💨💨😀💨💨💨😊💨💨 Amazing and Impressive Wish I Was Aboard

[@bcbloc02]

They appear to have it firing much better than the challenger last time it was out. Looks like they are starting to get it broke in more too. Will they ever take it up to 60 or 70mph? Anybody know why they have been touring it with so few cars?

[@serpentine1084]

The reason about them not having many cars is due to ticket sales. It’s 6,000 NZD a ticket.

[@ibrahimresatsubutay8075]

Amazing ! Mighty Machine. Thanks...

[@mrlionel1965]

We caught it in Friesland WI, then tried to chase it to Milwaukee. The line was absolutely inaccessible, except for a few country crossings. There was no way we could get any pacing shots like this, especially with the thousands of people that were out to see it, so we were lucky to get what we got, but man oh man, listening to that thing working it the cut, what an amazing sound. See my channel for the vid. Fantastic pacing shots here!

[@aliensporebomb]

What an awesome chase! Lovely video!

[@63fenderjazzbass17]

Question, Skip. What was the top speed over the duration of this video? I'm guessing around 40 - 45 mph? Thanks! Dave btw...great video!

[@stevehajdinyak3084]

I wish that would be able to come to Florida

[@roberthoffhines5419]

And we are LOVIN' her here in Chicago!!!! (well, West Chicago)

[@SkipW]

good to hear, have fun!

[@gregorymeyer84]

I got to see him in West Chicago on Sunday my pics didn't work out though.

[@shadowraith1]

Thanks for sharing.👍🚂🚂🚂👍

[@stephensmith799]

Gripping. Putting a smile on everybody who witnesses this. Effortless steaming (on a level grade?)

[@Brian_rock_railfan]

awesome video SteamUP :)

[@cprtrain]

WOW! Superb video.

[@narcissistectomy5134]

7:18 - Smoke appears to billow out of the front, indicating a possible electrical fire in the boiler, or an overheated / blown radiator due to a bad fan relay. Fortunately, they made it to the nearest LocoZone parking lot, borrowed some tools, and successfully repaired the turbo encabulation assembly.

[@gerdesoto262]

Somebody wrote big boy 1 day east of Chicago for the race, from the start of 4014 back when it started running this year, what race against what? Its a freedom and liberty tour and doing a great job with the general public. The crowds are good size everywhere it goes

[@aliensporebomb]

The UP Marketing slogan for this trip was that it was the great race across the midwest.

[@gerdesoto262]

@@aliensporebomb ( but to what you wrote doesn't cover the truth of the definition of (race) by 4014 so when is the lies going to end about a (RACE) when there is none. By definition of a race against what?. Trains don't race they just provide service to whoever. Again 4014, 844, 3985, is on a good liberty and freeeedon tour with alot of public Interest and with fans everywhere. And have crowds where ever it goes

[@mrlionel1965]

We saw it in a very small town, may a population of 900 tops, and there were probably 3000 + people there that came out to see it. In Milwaukee, they had some roads blocked off and the bridges were lined with hundreds. Yes, the crowds were very big, at least the ones we witnessed were. What an amazing sight!

[@railroadvelocipedeproducti2020]

Nice!

[@28yogy4todd]

Railroad Velocipede Productions very long straight stretches. Miles and miles through woods and fields sometimes. I have a friend co-worker who follows this engine to fuel it.

[@kurtvonfricken6829]

I figure he's going 38.8 mph. ( I counted 48 revolutions in 15 sec)

[@raymondo162]

can't be that accurate. the mechs are sometimes moving together other times out of phase. so the wheels are different sizes with varying circumferences ?? just asking, prof

[@madmanmapper]

Why does it seem like it's not actually pulling the load? It's clearly under steam, has a fire, but there's no exhaust steam...? I highly doubt it's all condensing before leaving the smokestack. Unless... it has a condenser? Didn't think that was a thing on loco's. And there's no chug-chug, just the empty rattling of the parts moving. Apparently this loco has been rebuilt recently... is this some kind of break in procedure, maybe?

[@enoyrahman9851]

It's now powered by fuel,not coal.Maybe big boy is not used to be gas power or it takes time to puff

[@oldeagle1911]

Ideed, I think they make steam only for the whistle, not for the cylinders.

[@StryderK]

Simply put, it’s not even at 30% power! This thing was designed to pull up to 200 fully loaded coal cars up Sherman Hill at at least 35 mph back in the day, what two or three trains needed to do. With what it is currently pulling? At best it’s at 25% power. This is why so little is coming out of it.

[@Amrepdude499]

MadMan Machinations The fireman is firing the locomotive really well. If there’s a lot of exhaust steam that means it was wasted, and that would be inefficient. The locomotive burns 6 gallons of oil a mile so any and all steam is used. Not to mention the fact this big boy is barely even putting out an effort. Put 200 of those hoppers behind him and you’ll definitely hear a lot more chugging

[@scrubstrainsmechascrub4028]

What a handsome boye

[@LinnyUwU]

I got to see it this morning!! I loved every bit of it!!

[@mrlionel1965]

Check my channel for it coming through a cut and under the bridge we were on in Friesland WI. Oooooh, that sound! I’ll never forget it! Amazing!

[@cigaretteman5716]

They should do a onboard video

[@phillipbonner5215]

Does anybody know if big boy will be coming to California? If so when and where will it be?

[@Makitaization]

No. They would have to ad catalytic converters and emission filters. Too much pollution for CA.

[@SkipW]

@@Makitaization October this year is the plan, they are kind of obligated to take her back to his old home www.railgiants.org/union-pacific-big-boy-4014.htm

[@SkipW]

The Big Boy Steam Dream has come true! UPDATE: Union Pacific and R&LHS Southern California agree to our excursion on Saturday & Sunday, October 12 & 13, 2019. Big Boy No. 4014's restoration is complete, and we have begun planning our Southern California Big Boy steam passenger excursion. Destination, passenger amenities, ticket sale dates, and other details have not yet been announced or determined. Join our 4014 Journeys List to receive excursion updates FIRST. www.railgiants.org/Big-Boy-Excursion-Info.php

[@narcissistectomy5134]

SteamUP What about Houston, Tx?

[@phillipbonner5215]

@Victor Bozich yes I was informed big boy will be coming to California October 12th and 13th

[@Melmn]

At the beginning of the video 4014 appears to have her drivers in-sync, but by the end they are not. Only thing I can think of is driver slip, but I'm no expert. What's going on?

[@kurtvonfricken6829]

I rarely see them in sync. I don't think it is an issue or a concern at all but maybe an expert can chime in.

[@rucarnuts13]

Best thing I can work out is some of the drivers are slipping ever-so-slightly in curves - that or she stopped for some grease and slipped one set of drivers when setting off again. Full-blown (and even minor) wheel slip at that speed, under that load, has got to be unlikely.

[@kurtvonfricken6829]

CarNutz Right but is there any significance to them being in sync or out of sync? I've seen them out of sync so often I assumed its not an issue....

[@kurtvonfricken6829]

CarNutz Another possibility is there is a slight variation to the tire size and after so many 100s of thousands of rotations they come out( or in sync)

[@robertweldon7909]

I think that the front engine might slip just a little since the main weight is over the rear engine, NOT POSITIVE, but it is one answer. ;-)

[@sergiochavez9577]

Awesome great job

[@kurtvonfricken6829]

17.8 ft of movement down the track per wheel revolution.

[@normbenjamin]

Why is it every video shows a Diesel locomotive behind the tenders???? Is she not able to pull a load?????????

[@mikehammer8737]

They say its for 3 reasons. #1 It's for dynamic braking. #2 It's to provide electricity for the passenger cars. #3 in case of a major breakdown it can limp in to somewhere for repairs.

[@cameronjenkins6748]

I would assume it's for safety/redundancy reasons. Steam locomotives aren't exactly pictures of reliability, so they have a diesel in the consist just in case the steam loco breaks down.

[@russweiler5605]

Its probably also for air conditioning for the passengers, I’d rather be in the cab where it’s 110 degrees

[@douglasgroff7648]

Contrary to popular belief, none of UP’s freight locomotives are equipped to provide power to any of the passenger cars. The UP has three specifically-built generator cars placed throughout the passenger car consist to provide power. The diesel IS used for dynamic braking and can be used to extend the fuel range of the steam locomotive.

[@jeffgarrett2114]

Also to help on a few steep grades not that it can't do it it's just some are notorious for stalling diesels

[@edwinsinclair9853]

How come the continuous blowdown that we see later isn't in use?

[@douglasgroff7648]

Edwin Sinclair my guess is that Ed has decided to waste steam through the engineer’s injector, without actually injecting water into the boiler. Since the engine isn’t working hard, he’s rather put the steam to good use by being a deterrent for standing so close to the tracks rather than have the safety valves pop every few minutes.

[@michaelconnors9906]

Ed Dickens is the Bill Belichick of steam engine engineers. [Or maybe it's the other way around]

[@kurtdikkers7659]

Very little smoke from Big Boy. Does that mean the diesel was doing most of the work?

[@timgreen4137]

No. It means that it wasn't "over fired". You can see several times where the safety valve lifted and vented the excess pressure. It was definitely doing the work.

[@cbmech2563]

It means that the crew knew what they are doing. And there isn't enough weight behind the big boy to have to work very hard.

[@SkipW]

@@timgreen4137 I agree

[@chrisjohnson4666]

As said below its being fired correctly one other observation on my part its put together correctly and insulated properly making it efficient...

[@mrlionel1965]

She was smoking when we saw it. What a sight, and ooooh man, that sound!

[@arupnath3477]

Big Boy steam locomotive very energetic

[@awentuszioniusa8171]

Great Glory!

[@kurtvonfricken6829]

Someone with some free time could calculate his speed here.

[@kellingc]

How rude of the dump truck to video bumb. ;) And 4014 is not even gerting a workout - the popoff valve going off at 2:35

[@SkipW]

Think it was a "Fracking" truck & he had oil rigs to see

[@getube9]

Hey Skip, in her rebuilt and current operating state, what's her top speed?

[@kurtvonfricken6829]

They used to claim 80 back in the day. They should open him up and get an official number....

[@kurtvonfricken6829]

BTW it's a him not a her. Since he was born in the 40s gender neutral pronouns don't apply.

[@StryderK]

Quoted 80mph. But Ed Dickens won’t let it go beyond 55mph

[@Amrepdude499]

StryderK It can still run 80. But if you run it at 80 how does that give a great view of it? My understanding is they do it for that as well as the safety of those on the highway as its not a great idea to have a ton of people pacing the loco at 80 miles an hour on the highway ten feet off the last car’s bumper.

[@bobmckinley2498]

She doesn't appear to be pulling or working at all just deadheading on the front with a head of steam. You don't see any steam release coming out of the cylinders. 😥😥😥

[@PowerTrain611]

Oh boy, time to explain... again... So when a steam locomotive first starts moving, it's required to open the cylinder drain cocks to release water from the cylinders so they don't blow up. Water doesn't compress. When the locomotive gets about 8 full turns of the drivers into movement, the cylinder cocks are closed. If a steam locomotive is shooting steam from the cylinders while it's moving, it's usually not good. Look at the big boy's first run. It had a leak in the cylinder packing that has since been fixed. As a general statement, if steam is leaking, it's not being used. It's wasted power.

[@bobmckinley2498]

@@PowerTrain611 I understand that fully but the thing of it is she was making no smoke and no steam anywhere other than blowing out the relief valves on top.The lifting of the relief valve tells me she's not using her steam for motive power.

[@douglasgroff7648]

Bob Mckinley You’re not going to see steam coming out of the stack unless it’s really cold. The laws of thermodynamics mean that most of the heat energy has been converted into forward motion, meaning that the water vapor coming out of the stack is very close in temperature to ambient. If it was a cold winter day it would look much different. (Think of why you don’t see water vapor come out of a car’s tailpipe in summer but you do during the winter). Secondly, black smoke from an oil burner is a big no-no. Black smoke means a fuel-rich burn. No smoke means a oxygen-rich burn. The goal is to be oxygen-rich to make sure all hydrocarbons are burned. The only byproducts from an oxygen-rich burn are water vapor, carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide... all colorless and invisible gases. Black smoke is unburned hydrocarbons...

[@j.christopherlindsey8933]

Keeps lifting the valve because it's not being worked. 4014 is basically a rolling whistle. Personally have seen 611 and back in the day 1218 lift the valve while pulling a consist ,unassisted, at least twice the length just because they were working hard. Open this bad boy up!

[@chadbailey8152]

Couldn't they regulate fire to stop waste of steam, water, fuel?!! Every time it goes off you waste money

[@j.christopherlindsey8933]

@@chadbailey8152 To a point, yes, but the steam still has to be exhausted somehow. Through the various steam powered components on the locomotive including the whistle, well, that isn't enough. In my eyes, this is a well fired locomotive but under used. I honestly don't know if they're babying it because it's so fresh of a rebuild or there's something wrong. As stated and keep in mind, 611 has been pulling twice the consist in hills and curves unassisted since her latest rebuild. We've only seen 4014 on short consists, flat terrain with a diesel in the mix. Given some of the videos I've seen, I'm not so sure those are there for HEP or dynamic braking. I wasn't there, but my observation.