UPCI General Conference 2024: Claims of Signs and Wonders! - EP60

[@miaroberts5189]

I have been deprogramming from a life long indoctrination of the Apostolic/Pentecostal message. I find myself now not really knowing how to pray. I realize how much of the Word I never knew or understood. I’m 48 years old and where I feel solid in my love for Jesus, I am lost in how to communicate with him now and lack trust in people speaking into my life. Any advice?

[@DAjanapeterson]

I am in the same position.

[@anniel.1697]

Pray from your heart. Read your Bible yourself and pray the scriptures.

[@BobbyORiley]

Just learn to trust and have confidence within yourself. When you had thoughts about things not making sense in the bible its because it doesn't. Stay away from getting too deep into bible doctrine and have simple faith. I grew up Lutheran and had zero problems.

[@justinandtiffany]

We agree with all of these replies. I (Tiff) didn’t know how to pray either once I left. At all. I also kind of didn’t want to, because I knew I had learned in error. So you are not alone in this. Your love and trust in Jesus Christ as your ONLY means of salvation is where everything hangs. Anything else, is a work of the Holy Spirit. Not a work of us, or our own abilities. Our advice would first be to rest. Don’t put any qualifiers, requirements or time restraints on yourself. Grow as the Holy Spirit leads (He will!) Pray Scripture. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you know how to pray. He WILL answer. Pray like Jesus taught us to pray (the Lord’s Prayer). You may find it stiff at first, and that’s ok. But say it from your heart and mean the words. You will start to find yourself “expounding” most likely. Use your mind to pray, not your emotions. This is not to say that it isn’t okay to cry or get mad. Of course it is, but we don’t have to let those emotions be the driving force of what we think we should say in prayer. This is a false teaching from the Pentecostal movement. Don’t set a time limit. Talk with God throughout the day when you think of Him. These are some things that have helped us. We are always open to constructive, biblical criticism though. We pray this is helpful and we will also be praying that the Holy Spirit will lead and guide you to confidence and peace in prayer ❤️

[@TalonKieffner]

@@BobbyORileyhey Bobby, I am not trying to be a negative KZbin commenter I promise, I commend the idea of one trying to grow in grace & knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, we have to be careful and alight this “heart felt” doctrine we create within ourselves with the actual Holy Scripture…We would be foolish to simply listen to our “hearts” and base our salvation or eternal security on simply how I feel, anyone who does so unfortunately is extremely deceived with seared conscience… Jeremiah 17:9-10 “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” And anyone who encourages you to follow your heart is just as wicked, again I’m not trying to be rude but more so encourage real biblical growth and obedient walk with the lord…“There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, But the end thereof are the ways of death.” Proverbs‬ ‭16‬:‭25‬ ‭ We can’t pick and choose the scriptures that we believe, we can’t just make our own faith because that’s what we believe(because there’s one faith as *ephesians 4:5* tells us), or much less, dismiss the scriptures as a whole because they don’t line up with our beliefs as a person, matter of fact if my beliefs are not in alignment with the scriptures, I am wrong! “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” ‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭ Again, I hope this doesn’t come across the wrong way as most comments can, I just don’t want someone to be lied to rather by someone with a audience that validates one’s opinions that are biblically inaccurate or even worse when one is blinding themselves.

[@heathertaylor8358]

David Bernard rehearsed his message in his mind to get the timing right? Just proves that it’s a performance! 🎭

[@laur3n1124]

It took him all year to come up with this. That is WILD

[@Deepwatermusic]

I am not saying that God doesn't do miracles, He can certainly do whatever He wants. But as one who grew up from a child in the UPCI I have never personally witnessed a real physical healing. These signs and wonders people (and the UPCI false teachings concerning the Gospel and holiness) influenced me to walk away from God for many years. It was a long road back to faith.. And I can't say that the damage has been completely repaired.

[@blonde.girl.in.the.skirt.]

Ya…and if signs and wonders and miracles aren’t happening…it’s the saints fault…”not enough faith, prayer, fasting, having sinful lives” sheesh!

[@justinandtiffany]

Exactly! Why would God's healing power EVER be contingent upon our human contribution? 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@TalonKieffner]

@@justinandtiffany I’m not trying to debate or cause an argument but I’m genuinely curious how you explain when the apostles couldn’t cast out the demon and the people got upset with Jesus’ followers because they failed if you will and Jesus pretty much roasted them claiming it was because of their little faith, making this statement “and this kind only comes out by prayer and fasting?”

[@blonde.girl.in.the.skirt.]

@@TalonKieffner saints praying and fasting more useful than the leaders? Is it not “the body” that should pray and fast.

[@GigiRocks1969]

Excellent point. Christ crucified is rarely preached or taught within apostolic/pentecostal circles. And it seems, there's been "a shift," toward expecting and claiming your own personal miracle. That being said, I believe the Lord still does miracles, but to demand them and expect them every day,all the time, imo can hurt someone's faith if you don't get one. Thank you again for a wonderful episode.

[@justinandtiffany]

The stories that we all could probably tell of people that have had their faith quite literally destroyed by being given false hope about miracles. It's a sad truth 💔

[@davidbrock4104]

Regarding Mark 16:9-20 and Biblical textual criticism, please note that the passage is included in 90 plus percentage of manuscripts, with some dating to between the 4th and 5th century. The passage is not found in either Vaticanus or Sinaticus, two of the oldest manuscripts to date. They are believed to date back to between the 200's and the 300's. There are scholars on both side of the issue, and there is good reason that the passage has not been removed and is in brackets in the majority of translations. I recommend having some scholars on from both sides to thoroughly discuss the issue. I went to the NKJV as my primary translation for many reasons, among them being the textual notes that are included.

[@MckenzieD21]

Yeah it’s really just something ain’t it that they wanna raise all this money for some Azusa street revival memorial thing, and MTM along with everything else right, but don’t even do outreach for the homeless in their local area... never heard of them doing any sort of fundraiser for things like feeding the homeless that REALLY matter but oh I bet their conference this year with the dinners were just so elaborate. You can tell exactly what’s going on with the money and that’s just something I had to get off my chest. Shameful....

[@marvincacho7445]

Sad for this two people to criticize this teaching calling the message an obsession. What are you trying to accomplish anyway and what is it that you are bringing different that would be convincing.

[@Carollinesus]

You have been taught to view this as criticism. They are teaching the body of Christ how to handle the deceptive teachers the Bible warns us against. God speaks against false teachers. What they are doing is not sad. It is scriptural what they are doing. Paul also wrote letters to the church to correct false teachings errors and to defend sound doctrine. I encourage you to listen with an open heart and if you do so, I am sure you could be used to help the body of Christ as well and help your owns brothers and sisters where correction may be needed. •Matthew 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect •Deuteronomy 18:20 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or[a] who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die. •Jeremiah 14:14 14 And the Lord said to me: “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds •1 Timothy3-4 3 As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship[a] from God that is by faith.

[@Carollinesus]

So much hype about signs and wonders. All their ministers and members do when they go back to their home and to their lives is try to impose their holiness standards on other people. David Bernard takes on a big platform and doesn't disciple to the hundreds there. The signs and wonders according to them never happen, just hype and emotionalism! Take it from me who grew up 15 years plus in music ministry in multiple upci church's. I am sad so many are not being truly discipled. PS.. i didn't leave because i was hurt or rejected 😉

[@Carollinesus]

Or bitter….

[@Deepwatermusic]

I just noticed the guys setting up the arena for the general Incompetence are wearing..... shorts!!!!! Oh my!!!! Talking about quenching the spirit! They done did that before the conference began. (Yes. I am being very sarcastic. )

[@DanyelleOdom]

Those people were likely union workers that worked for the facility that they rent to put on conference. Just another added cost🙄.

[@Deepwatermusic]

@@DanyelleOdom oh. As a touring professional musician (at one time) I am well aware . But I still find it funny.

[@anthonyw6420]

Why did they need a translator if they could talk in tongues as in the bible? 😅

[@justinandtiffany]

HA!! Right?!

[@DanyelleOdom]

We owed an apostolic boutique and attended general conference as vendors for the past 2 years. The cost of a 10×10 space(which you really needed 2 or 3 of those to accommodate the amount of product that you needed to bring for a conference with this many people) was typically $1200-$1500. It was outrageous! By the time we paid for lodging, booth space, gas and food for the week, it would easily cost us upwards of $5000-$7000. I'm certain we were helping pay for the large production cost. It was absolutely ridiculous.

[@MckenzieD21]

Wow. Sickening.

[@DAjanapeterson]

OK if he died truly nobody did CPR? Someone could do CPR while the other I praying wow lol

[@justinandtiffany]

You’d think…🤷🏼‍♀️