UPDATED: Our Ford F150 Lightning Is Great: Our Backup System? Not So Much..

EDIT (9:00 am, Friday Feb 10, 2023) - a few hours after publishing this video, and a day after filming.
This morning, while outside, I decided to test the system one more time, turning off the appropriate breakers to simulate a power outage. Before doing this, I turned off all higher-load systems (including the heat pumps and well). After less than a minute, the system activated, and remained stable, so I turned on our hot water heater... then the smaller server-room heat pump... then the main heat pump for the house.
With all the usual loads running and pulling between 7 and 9 kW, everything seemed stable, so we let it run for a while. While we haven't tested the well pump yet, we're now confident something changed over night, be it a software update, remote reconfiguration or something else. We sadly can't make a second video today documenting the change in fortunes, but we'll be doing so as soon as possible - and hope to get a few days of load testing in before doing so. In the interests of accurate reporting and transparency however, we felt it was necessary to make this amendment to our video here (Sadly, KZbin does not let you re-upload new videos after publishing).
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When we decided to purchase a Ford F150 Lightning as our main work vehicle, wood hauler, and farm/garden assistant, we were influenced in part by the truck's ability to power our home using just regular power outlets situated in its bed.
That and the vehicle-to-home system as developed by Delta that would be sold to Ford customers by SunRun.
Yet almost four months after our install initially began, we're still hitting brick walls.
Is it us? Is it the hardware? Or is there something going on we can't explain with our home? And what exactly is the definition of 'working'?
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Presenter: Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
Camera, Coloring: Michael Horton
Editor, Producer: Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
Art and Animation: Erin Carlie
© Transport Evolved LLC, 2023
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[@transportevolved]

EDIT (9:00 am, Friday Feb 10, 2023) - a few hours after publishing this video, and a day after filming. This morning, while outside, I decided to test the system one more time, turning off the appropriate breakers to simulate a power outage. Before doing this, I turned off all higher-load systems (including the heat pumps and well). After less than a minute, the system activated, and remained stable, so I turned on our hot water heater... then the smaller server-room heat pump... then the main heat pump for the house. With all the usual loads running and pulling between 7 and 9 kW, everything seemed stable, so we let it run for a while. While we haven't tested the well pump yet, we're now confident something changed over night, be it a software update, remote reconfiguration or something else. We sadly can't make a second video today documenting the change in fortunes, but we'll be doing so as soon as possible - and hope to get a few days of load testing in before doing so. In the interests of accurate reporting and transparency however, we felt it was necessary to make this amendment to our video here (Sadly, KZbin does not let you re-upload new videos after publishing).

[@russtanton3141]

With your loads between 7-9kW, this makes it more suspicious that the Delta bidirectional is undersized to support the load.

[@TeslaDo_d]

Nikki, I've been telling everyone from the beginning that V2H and V2G are not as simple as everyone believes them to be. Everybody is under the impression that the electricity will just run backwards on its own and no other support is necessary beyond the bidirectional charger. When your power goes out, which of those boxes on your wall has the function of 'islanding' your home from the grid? Do you have a function diagram of the connections which can be shared so that we can help to diagnose the issue? I'm glad you did this video. Please provide the overall cost estimate for those who are considering this type of setup in the future (not including any discounts you may have received from Ford, Sunrun, SPAn, etc)

[@mikefarrington7141]

Do you think perhaps it was bringing the higher loads online in stages that did the trick? I'm not sure how that could be automated during a fail-over though without getting more fancy equipment.

[@cadamwil]

@@TeslaDo_d There should be an ATS somewhere in the boxes outside. If I was guessing, it would be the box above and to the right of the meter box, above the ford charger. Her issue doesn't seem to be the islanding, nor the to vehicle connection but could be a communication issue or my suspicion is the inverter (sunrun box) doesn't like the load. This likely could be helped or resolved by settings in the firmware from sunrun, provided the load isn't way outside expected Power Factor and Current demand.

[@russtanton3141]

@@TeslaDo_d As they designed the system,SunRun certainly knows to and installed everything properly to “island” her home from the grid…they did so on mine but that is not the problem.

[@josephk.1842]

as an electrician, I am impressed by your use of proper terminology. Good job!

[@transportevolved]

Thank you! - And this morning, it started working!

[@LogistiQbunnik]

@@transportevolved Does it have over the air updates of the software? Good news, but also a bit frustrating not to know what exactly changed between filming and the next morning - who knows whether it will be stably functional!

[@sherpa972]

This is what I like so much about your channel, you are willing to expose the good and the bad of these new technologies. Thank you.

[@transportevolved]

And because it now works, we're going to be making a video very soon explaining that too!

[@cali-electro-dad]

As a SPAN-certified installer and salesperson, EV-angelist, and backup power installer THANK YOU for this inside look, Nikki. I've had my qualms with the system design from the get-go. The horizontal integration of Ford, Sunrun, and their third-party vendors seemed destined to have bugs. I want to see a future where any battery system can be reliability managed with a product like SPAN. Where multiple energy sources and storage solutions can all work together. Sadly there are currently no standards for anyone to work from when it comes to home energy storage. We WILL get there though and I plan to help it happen. Glad to hear the issues resolved on their own, though that is the most dissatisfying situation for an electrician who needs to know WHY. Please be well and keep us updated.

[@fjalics]

As a Span curious homeowner, I have a 200amp pannel. My largest circuit is 125A to a subpannel. I think mine has 42 breakers, but some of those have 2 circuits in them. My 6.2kw solar is wired into the subpannel. The Span I saw online looked like 5K. For that kind of money, I would not want to be limited. I would not want to work around limitations in the number of circuits, and 300amp pannels should be an option for large homes. Also, and this might be fantasy, but Tesla has a gateway, Enphase has a system controller allowing grid tied equipment to know when they are disconnected from the grid(islanding) so they can make power, like my Solaredge inverter which shuts off when the power is out. I'm poking at you on the off chance you might give me a tidbit of information I don't have. I'll probably get more solar first, but once I start looking for a battery, I have to screw around to get backup power working.

[@vawlkus]

here's a question: can SPAN be programmed to activate circuits in a sequence on a timer after a power loss? That MIGHT be a quick and dirty method of getting around this issue.

[@cali-electro-dad]

@fjalics The current 2nd gen SPAN panel has 32 spaces. Each space is individually monitored and controlled. It can take tandem breakers (two circuits in one space) but then you sacrifice individual control of those 2 circuits. The circuit size limit is 90 amps. So your sub-feed could not go on a breaker space. However, there are 200A pass-through lugs and if a main breaker can be placed at your sub it could be powered and monitored but not controlled. (edited) So in your situation to have full control and monitoring you would need 3 SPAN panels. Possibly 4 if you took your service to 300A and/or wanted to split all your tandem breakers into their own spaces for individual control and monitoring. Going the other way, you may be able to consolidate the circuits in the main to all tandem breakers and get away with 2 panels if there are fewer than 64 individual handles.

[@cali-electro-dad]

@@vawlkus Not sure it can automatically, but one could do that manually from the app. Are you suggesting that the issue is caused by all the backup circuits coming on at the same time?

[@vawlkus]

@@cali-electro-dad well, their follow up from Friday says that they did a sequential startup, turning on stuff one circuit at a time and the system worked. While it COULD be they got a stealth update, I'm more inclined to believe the sequential startup is what did it.

[@baila4buddy17]

So sorry for all of the issues you’re having. I opted out of the Home Integration System due to price. Years ago we had our electrician do a generator hookup and after getting the Lightning, we gave our generator away. So this past weekend our power went out and I plugged the the generator hookup to the back of the truck and it worked seamlessly for about 6 hours. We started with 90 percent and ended with about 84%. I hope you get your system working.

[@scottmcshannon6821]

6% in 6 hours? how much do you have hooked up to the generator circuit? that seems very low usage.

[@suunraze]

@@scottmcshannon6821 sounds like about 1.5kW of stuff, so typical household useage

[@baila4buddy17]

We only have the absolute necessary items like microwave for cooking, outlets by the Entertainment area, sump pumps and heat.

[@fjalics]

How can you tell when the power comes back on? You don't have a grid tie solar system by chance, do you? I am very interested in whether a grid tie system would synch to the inverter in one of these trucks. Wouldn't it be funny if the truck could bring up the solar, and make enough power to charge the truck? I have a 6.2kw Solaredge system, and 2 EVs even, but they don't make 220V power like the truck.

[@baila4buddy17]

Since the electrician hookup the generator on a separate box, I can shut off the main power, but interestingly enough, the other lights go on when the power is restored so I k ow it’s time to unplug. I do have solar, but apparently it does not power the house if the electricity goes out. I sure wish it did.

[@BB-lx7os]

I'm one of many watching and learning from those of you on the bleeding edge of home backup via the Lightning. Thank you for your true investigative reporting on this.

[@teddyloyd2780]

Most ecellect reporting ,i was so gogho when the f150 lighting came out and its potential to power a house. but realizing the extra cost of the Sunrun system slowly put it out range . Thanks being a pioneer ,and going though all this for us so we know the pitfalls of a new system.

[@ElectricCarAustralia]

All the best with getting this sorted and a successful outcome for you guys. Take care.

[@melissamybubbles6139]

I'm sorry you and Michael are both going through so many technology problems. I wish I had something useful to say. Virtual hugs if you want them.

[@cali-electro-dad]

Thanks Nikki! This is invaluable info for someone like me who sells and installs SPAN EVSEs and home battery storage options. Worth far more than a paltry super-thanks. Keep it coming. I'll keep supporting you.

[@TinkerTry]

Thanks! As a (happy) SPAN owner who just went to heat pumps and preparing to eventually go solar and battery backup, this candid video is a wealth of great info. Thank you for great work doing such a great job handling a delicate situation, without edits, I commend you, that is very difficult. I have a video about noisy heat pump water heater issues that I somewhat dread doing. This video inspires me to get it done sooner than later, to spare others the grief.

[@martincday007]

Incredibly well explained, nightmare scenario when so many different manufacturers involved and it is an intermittent problem, difficult to see what it is going to take to get it resolved, but good luck.

[@craigarnold1212]

Glad to hear that it is running today. Still worry a bit about the Bluetooth connection. Wondering if the charger box is directionally challenged, if that is really where the Bluetooth is coming from. Bluetooth is a poor choice for communication IMO but it does not need to be. They under power it to not interfere with other communication systems keeping it to 30 feet or less when they can be up to 200 feet. Which brings up the potential for other Bluetooth devices to interfere with signals. While they are very distinct communications systems via what is linked. There is potential for random reception while in operation. I would venture there are many devices around you that are using bluetooth and you may want to see what is active nearby should it randomly have a relapse. As you noted it seems odd to have a blutooth link, when you have CCS plugged in it has a communication line hardwired making bluetooth redundant and a weaker link.

[@moony2703]

Thanks for the breakdown! Also great to hear in the comments that it’s now working! Hope that fix is the last one you need to do for now, or at least the last major one at least!

[@williamlabarre4755]

Well put. Gut-feel says you have a grounding issue. Not the simplest install, to be sure. Thank you for fighting the good fight for all of us interested in seeing this concept work.

[@benssolarandbattery]

Thanks for sharing and updating! I just installed one of these for a customer but I haven't been able to turn it on yet. Glad it seems to be working as planned now!

[@vinsonhelton7141]

Sorry about your trials. I want to praise you for the way you are explaining your experience. I rarely come across people that think through the problems and most of all the blame until they have facts about who to blame. Hang in there and please stay true to your exceptional way of dealing with them.

[@moonw0man]

I really enjoyed this video, the one-take vlog works well and you're good at it! Sorry you've had so many issues with the system - I was shocked to learn they're using BLE to communicate between the charge station and truck... that can't be reliable. We need a standard for CCS V2H and V2G yesterday.

[@scottmcshannon6821]

they are using bluetooth? WHY??!!

[@lappy65]

CCS2, as per most of the rest of the world?

[@stevenbillault5915]

Thank you for your video , understand your frustration and feel sorry for your issues

[@brettjohnson6807]

Hopefully by respectfully addressing this issue as publicly as possible it will light some fires and get you guys working as advertised by sunrun. I know this isn't technically a ford issue, but they decided to partner with sunrun on this, I would bring this up with ford as well. Hopefully all ends well! Good luck!

[@lv_woodturner3899]

I can feel your frustration. A classic case of finger-pointing between parties. I am also on well and septic. I use a 7KW portable generator for backup power which is hooked up to a manual transfer switch. The only 240V load is my well pump. I would expect the well pump inrush should not be a problem. You mentioned changing your pump to a 3 phase motor and VFD to enable soft start which will have very low inrush. I hope you get the parties to better co-operate and solve the issues.

[@GoCoyote]

As an electrician with decades of experience in renewable and off-grid control systems, these types of problems are the bane of installers, especially when integrating equipment from different systems. I once spent several call backs over several weeks trouble shooting a new system that kept shutting off the PV array, but I could never get the fault to occur when I was present. I finally bypassed the breakers on the PV array combiner box, and the system worked perfectly. Turned out they had a bad batch of breakers for the combiner boxes that caused to solar charge controller to register a fault. I am always reminded of a problem experienced by one of the early atomic bomb tests when shortly before the test was to commence, the video feed from the bomb site to the operations center cut out, and no amount of trouble shooting seemed to be able to find the fault. Suddenly the feed came back, and the operations center asked the technician at the bomb site what the problem had been. After a short silence, the technician replied that he had become so frustrated that he started jumping up and down on the cables.

[@georgepelton5645]

Nikki, While I prefer using the “old-fashioned” generator hook-up with transfer switch, and a cable to the Lightning’s 240 V outlet, I do appreciate you putting Ford’s new automatic home backup system in at your place and reporting on your channel.

[@TechViewOpinions]

Thanks for the heads up. This is reminiscent of other so called technologies that everyone believes are mature but just like your case, when push comes to shove, one becomes an Apollo 13 mission control engineer.

[@louisiglesias9727]

Your current condition is temporary. A solution will show itself in time. Viewing your channel has contributed to my EV education to where future investment is not so frightening. Thank you and have a wonderful Valentine's Day.

[@ImpactWench]

"We have an automatic backup power system to supply your home and business!" "That's great!" "It's based on Bluetooth LE"

[@scottburton414]

As a retired power systems engineer I'm just wondering if there's been a voltage/current waveform analysis done using an oscilloscope and current probe. It might be beneficial to understand the power factor of the various loads along with waveform disturbances such as sags surges and glitches as each load is applied individually. Doing so may provide a clue as to the issue you're facing.

[@cadamwil]

Power Factor of loads was my thought. Maybe the 240v loads are creating EMF due to power factor and the inverter isn't happy and is shutting down. I may be way off, not an EE, just a son and grandson of industrial electricians.

[@cadamwil]

Thought of something to try, if the load (amps in use) is low when you bring in the 240v loads and the inverter drops out, try adding a high resistive load to both legs of the 240v. Think two hair driers (one on each leg of the 240), or the clothes drier. Then bring in your 240v loads that are causing issues, well pump, heat pump. See what happens. If it tolerates that better it may point more to power factor of the VFD for the heat pump and well pump.

[@fatboy19831]

Guys when a large current load like an ac compressor kicks in it can throw a beaker during that peak start up. A capacitor is used to prevent this. That peak power is pulled from the capacitor. The capacitor then charges slowly to provide a more even load on the electrical system. Would the appropriate capacitor bank work in this situation?

[@transportevolved]

​@@fatboy19831 Strangely, it mysteriously started working this morning... - Nikki. - See above ;)

[@transportevolved]

@@cadamwil ​ @fatboy19831 Strangely, it mysteriously started working this morning... - Nikki. - See above ;)

[@DuncanCunningham]

Note to Sunrun. I’m getting a F-150 lightning. I’m planning on getting a Ford Pro charger and home integration system. Troubleshooting is very important in customer service. It’s not about fault, it’s about helping to find the problem. If you can’t help Nikki with this I’m hold off buying the home integration system.

[@drewsmith7726]

Thanks for your videos! Your channel is so wonderful to watch. It's amazing the crazy *stuff* that gets installed when people are building houses. It must be incredibly difficult to design a system to work with such unexpected home wiring situations. Hopefully they get these kinds of bugs worked out over the next few years, because the idea of using your car as a home battery backup system is such a good idea. I would like to get an EV and use it as a home battery storage when not in use eventually. Even though my home is less than 10 years old, I have found a number or real head-scratchers when it comes to the electrical wiring, so I'm going to wait until all the kinks are worked out. In the mean time, I'll just live with the power outages when they happen, because they don't happen enough in my area to make we want to try this technology that doesn't have the kinks worked out yet. Also, I'm waiting for smaller EVs to do this with because a giant truck (or even an SUV) doesn't make sense for my use cases, nor my bank account :) Whatever happened to those promises of a sub $20K compact EV?! Good Luck to you and your wife! I hope you get your system working soon!

[@joehubris1]

Nikki, you should consider trying anti-attenuation electrothermal film, aka far infrared heating film, or, as I call it: "Lulu's Loving Touch Plastic-Coated comfort film. It comes in a roll with each 1/6M section using 26w ish and producing something like 79btu/h. It is 99.69% efficient and it makes a great cabin heater in EV's and a very cheap and effective way to heat spaces in your home. I'd be glad to bring you some to try out this weekend. I'll be down in Portland for the "Big Game"...

[@joehubris1]

@@tiepup so I've heard, but efficiency can be viewed different ways. If I turn the heat/defogger on full in Lulu, she uses .13 kWh in 3 minutes. OR i can power up 5 comfort film sections for an hour, together producing 400 BTUs/hr for less energy consumption. Honestly that's almost too warm and it helps keep my windshield clear. We have a 24'x24'x11' workshop and 21 sections of the film kept it around 62° during the cold snap for 560w. I guess a heat pump's better...

[@00CRITICAL]

Glad it seems to possibly be working. I was going to ask if anyone thought of getting a “normal” Ford wall charger as they might have upgraded/updated them and that was the over all issue. Still may have been a software issue in that unit. Just a guess

[@Snerdles]

This type of setup is one of the reasons I might choose an EV, even with all of their other frustrations, over a PHEV or ICE in the future. For now I'm in a PHEV that only has 2 180w 12V outlets and otherwise won't run anything important. Hopefully in a few years pretty much every EV will support V2H and it will be a little more seamless to get set up and running. These things are still very new so it will be a while before it is ready for most people, just like EVs in general.

[@richardblais5232]

so, in the future, you may choose a gas car or a gas car if not an EV ...

[@ronaldking1054]

Does the inverter have the capability to deal with the separate phases in your electrical box? Those phases need to be similar in load for some inverters. The inverter might be turning off itself because the circuits are not properly balanced, which is what the Span box was trying to fix by turning off loads. The Sol-Ark 12000, for example, will turn itself off if the phases are unbalanced. One solution for that situation is a second inverter that helped balance the two phases, so the loads were balanced. He also used an auto-transformer to balance the loads. KZbin Channel: DavidPoz video, "Why Sol-Ark didn't work for me." might explain what might be happening in your backup system. His inverter is set up for solar inputs as well, but that doesn't matter as it is a problem with the inverter functionality rather than where the power is gotten.

[@WooShell]

From listening to the description of the symptoms, it sounds a lot like the F150 is having problems with either load spikes or an imbalanced load between the phases, which are common issues with multiphase inverters. Can you perhaps test all single and all dual-phase consumers as separate blocks?

[@transportevolved]

Strangely, it started working this morning. We suspect it received an update or a remote reset last night - Nikki.

[@ericvet8b]

What a nightmare… 😢 I hope you get it fixed…

[@BehroozShariati]

Regardibg the well pump, we spend a lot of time in Mexico, and most houses have a gravity-fed water tank that keeps the tank topped up, which can provide pressure with not pump running. Not sure that is an option for your location, but may provide a benefit aside from power loss situations.

[@vawlkus]

while it may not be the video you wanted to make, it's still better to have made it so people know where things stand. thankyou for being as indepth as possible. From your pinned comment, it sounds like it's the surge that's causing the issues, but that's just a wild guess on my part. Hopefully, between everyone involved, you can get this sorted out. Also, I did chuckle every time you said "on the hob". I know what it means, but I'll wager most of your audience probably doesn't 🤣

[@rolandtb3]

The frustration vs the challenge. Urban, semi off-grid requirements vs breaking ground on systems integration. Early days still even though months have passed. Issues centering around design limitations or capabilities, design parameters, systems abilities to communicate, discovering design vulnerabilities. Just like dc chargers, as more people use similar home systems, new discoveries will be uncovered. Some will be programming and logic issues, others will be integrated component issues, then hand shakes/interference between components and systems, whether that be hard wired, wifi, blue tooth, electrical interference/distance/shielding. Your patient approach is wise. Isolating issues whilst verifying accountability. Reputable companies back their products and services. Either through troubleshooting, software upgrades, hardware upgrades, installation compensation, installation substitution or replacement. At the very least, you have raised the awareness level for a host of worrying concerns. Cost, support, design limitations, systems integration, major or minor load draw requirements. More to discover and resolve.

[@johnpoole3882]

love the information

[@peterkn2]

They should have offered to swap out the Ford charger or Delta Inverter much sooner. It sounds like one of their components is faulty and I'd say you're at the point where checking for faulty equipment by swapping them out is reasonable. Good luck! I bet you aren't the only ones having this problem.

[@transportevolved]

Strangely, it mysteriously started working this morning... - Nikki.

[@rklauco]

This is extremely unfortunate. I've heard about similar problems for people that had problems with earth connection - having more than one hearth connection in the system. But if 2 electrician confirmed all is OK, this is most probably not the problem. I feel sorry, I hope this will get better for you, soon. However, I am very grateful for you sharing this - the positive experience is OK, but should normal people run into this level of issues, they would be clueless.

[@briancochran2571]

Very informative video. I don’t always watch your videos because of the time commitment (I’m a ten minute video watcher), but well spoken, professional, and engaging. Well done! So sorry you are having these issues. They better make this right! Is there an amp-cap? Seems like 220v circuits would be fine if within the amperage cap of the system? Looking forward to hearing outcome. Good luck

[@elmojito]

Upon hearing about you 3-phase water pump I thought of potential problemas causing the problem. I gather 3-phase is not common in homes but I am a little as I do have 3-phase in my home. The problem "could" be caused by very significant load imbalance if everything else you have is single phase and the circuits are not very well split among the 3 phases. Your power company has an easier time absorbing this but its possible you Sunrun is not. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Good luck Nikki! BTW, looks like a very nice and clean install.

[@transportevolved]

It's a three-phase pump, but our home is not three-phase. There's an inverter doing the job of converting the power to three-phase - Nikki.

[@elmojito]

@@transportevolved Don't know about these inverters. I have three phase because of several pumps that are better and consume less being 3 phase. Forced me to go three phase everywhere including solar inverters and batteries. The fact you go through the inverter could be the source of the problem. Have you tried turning the inverter off and testing the system to see if you still have the problem? Just thinking.....

[@TreasureHunter-hf9ff]

Pioneering can be very expensive and painful as pioneers attract arrows.

[@mikecarter2737]

If you continue to have difficulties, perhaps you could rent or borrow a high-end AC and DC current and voltage data logger to sniff for glitches. So many cooks!

[@patreekotime4578]

That seems like an incredibly expensive system to just keep the lights on. If I had this system I would also expect it to run a well pump and electric heat. Those are the only things I care about in the middle of winter when the power goes out. I can survive without lights and if its good and cold outside, refridgerated goods go on the porch. Edit: saw that you got it running. If turning things on in stages works but not just switching everything over, then its still useless during an actual power cut when this should happen automatically in the middle of the night. So you still need to test to see that it will actually do what it claims it will do.

[@brendaeberle5287]

Thanks!

[@zweare1]

First of all great video and great information, I hope you get this figured out in the near future. Just looking at your SunRun inverter and not knowing anything about it, it looks small especially if you are running well pumps and heat pumps. I have an off grid solar system and my inverter is almost as large as yours and I am running 4ea 15 amp 110 circuits and no 240 at all. Good luck, can't wait to see how it all really works.

[@Paul-GrnHil]

You should rename this video ; "The Perils of being an early adopter". I hope someday to have my EVs backup our home but not until the technology is proven. Thanks for the information.

[@Rob_Gater]

Great video. I wonder if there is "electrical noise" tgiven the proximity of the ford unit to the meter panel and everything else given that distance ford were saying with the bluetooth le module and comms issue? That's the type of screwy issues I used to spend ages chasing. The loads from these ccts could be producing that noise. They might need to take a closer look with a spectrum analyser for rf interference. Grounding, grounding, grounding!

[@clydewolf2013]

Welcome to the bleeding edge of technology. Hang in there it will work eventually.

[@canis9178]

Please keep us updated on your progress toward a solution to this problem , thanks.

[@transportevolved]

As requested - it started working today! - Nikki.

[@n3glv]

It sounds to me (a HAM radio guy for 35years) that at least part of the issue may be local RFI (radio interference) be it wifi or bt would take a good look at shared spectrum and try to isolate the radio band used by the truck. Of course when your only tool is a hammer is everything really a nail? RF and NETWORKING and Power people make for a complex world. Good luck girls, long time member and viewer and best of luck with the YT algo. Cheers, (N3GLV)

[@pxsteel1]

Even if your system is working now, I would not trust it as far as I could throw an elephant. Because of who you are (and your channel) I can guarantee you, that you, got better service than 99% of regular people ever will. There are a lot of things that look good on paper, but really do not work in the real world.

[@williambratton8900]

Hi Ladies, I have worked in system integration most of my working life. What you are describing is a classic integration problem complicated by multiple vendors. If everything works from your main breaker panel when there is not a power outage then problem is somewhere in multiple subsystems you’ve installed. The challenge you have is being able to isolate the problem. And keep in mind vendors by nature do finger pointing. Also any update to a subsystem is not guaranteed to work with other subsystems. I have seen cases where due to marketing conditions a vendor would force failures in subsystems to promote other subsystems. The only suggestion I can offer you is to learn as much as you can about each subsystem. With a goal of being able to insulate problems that point to the problematic subsystems warranty. Also don’t jump the gun. This technology is so new, you will see problems like this until standards have been define.

[@marcbastien6054]

Sorry this technology is showing growing pains. But I guess that is part of all new technology integration. Good luck to you and be courageous!

[@tommays56]

I did not want to see this go bad BUT after a lifetime of large factory electric projects it’s about we’re I expected something this complex placed in a household to be at One of the bigger issues is household vs Industrial electric work is a very different skill set and as this becomes more common the understanding of the systems will smooth things out I

[@evanmaetche2169]

Great video and thanks for sharing your experience with the bi- directional feature. Have you ever looked into Savant Powers new energy management? It might be a good alternative to the Span panel.

[@johnwang9914]

Well, technically, the CCS adapter was not designed to be bidirectional, indeed only the CHAdeMO adapter was designed to be bidirectional. This means that there is no standards to using your EV as a backup power supply so doing so will really be hit or miss. The best you can do right now is wire your home with a sub panel and a transfer switch in hopes that you will be ready for whatever standards do develop. Of course, once you have a transfer switch and sub panel set up, you could run an exterior line for a generator, a circuit for a solar inverter or inverter/battery setup as well as the outlets for the level 2 EVSE (charging stations) from the sub panel (note that the EVSE equipment may need both lines from the main panel and the sub panel which should hold the essential loads as you want the charging from the grid hence the main panel but the backup inverter to the essential load sub panel. Note that there are automatic transfer switches which would isolate the sub panel from the grid and often send a control signal meant to start a generator. Best to get as much of the electrical work setup for a generator as that is all proven, then the essentially unproven modifications for the EV to be the power supply would be as minimal as possible. Actually measuring the peak power draw on the sub panel is also very important as you would want to have the backup supply equipment to exceed peak load by 25% so that utilization under full load would be 80% or less. It's quite likely that your backup power setup was not sized with enough of a safety margin as it tests out as working fine but as soon as it's loaded, it isn't fine.

[@LinasR]

Usually engines have high initial load while it start up so you can not use DC to AC inverters. Peak load till engine loads up is several times higher compared to regular usage consumption. So if you have heat pump or fridge or water pump and etc- you might trigger overloads. Try disconnecting similar devices and then plug one by one so you notice which one triggers disconnect. Then you can ask for a peak load buffer solution

[@transportevolved]

Strangely, it started working this morning. We suspect it received an update or a remote reset last night - Nikki.

[@skywave12]

Bluetooth getting jammed by RFI from a transformerless inverter. That is my take. Putting some Torroids on it will help. You can monitor the interference with a AM radio close to it. Overloaded front end of receiver. It will show up in certain frequencies. One reason Tesla does not have a AM radio is the inverter noise along with switching power supplies. Square waves put out what is called ring noise when switching. A smoothing transformer removes this but is very heavy. As you put a load on it the noise will increase. A modified sine wave is generated by a carrier frequency that is square. This also explains the issue with the smart panel. It also uses wireless. Tell the Engineers to get out of the box.

[@pinkelephants1421]

This is a little bit out of left field, but with regards to outdoor clothes drying, if and when you get around to building your greenhouse, might it be possible to build it big enough to double up as an indoor/outdoor clothes line? Any doors and windows could have mesh screens installed to keep stinkbugs and other critters out, yet allow for the necessary evaporation and ventilation. A two for one application.

[@edwardgodsell]

Interesting to know for Australian as we have 240v system hear

[@DamnedMonkey]

It drives me batty when a company starts down the path of theories, especially theories that start blaming the customer's load side equipment when there's no proof. Sunrun should have an Engineer camped onsite until the issue is tested out of the system. I've served as a field engineer and reassuring the customer until a solution is found is part of the job. I've had that "respect the customer", "they're having a worse day than you" conversation with new field engineers; it's a rare quality and I was certainly lucky to have someone teach that lesson to me. I"m happy to hear it started working again. Solid idea you have for waiting to see if that one success is a fluke. Best of luck for your challenges with V2H. Just a personal opinion, Ford / Bosch dropped the design ball with not having that data signal hardwired. That's just sad and the engineering team that designed that in with wireless technology should be ashamed.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

If they truly are using Bluetooth to talk to the vehicle than that is simply bad design, for which there is no excuse - there's a frickin' cable, with a communications link right there.

[@ferkeap]

A complex system setup. Yet sun run is unable to figure out why without the span system it is still beyond the shutdown criteria it has for the 220 volt circuits. Or the 220v conversion causes the 110v to go below criteria. The truck has no idea if the output gets converted to 110v or 220v. It just delivers up to 10 or 20kw.

[@danielmadar9938]

Thank you

[@judebrown4103]

What a pain! I agree with the person who felt like it was the charger thing with the Ford logo on it causing the problem. Nothing qualifies me to say that but listening carefully to your description of what happens it all seems to point to that device. Anyway, what do I know?! Really hope you get it sorted, if you don't it seems to me that it's not fit for purpose and is not performing as advertised. That would be enough to get your money back, plus compensation for our of pocket expenses under British consumer law...not sure about over the pond though. Stay strong and good luck.👍🤞💚🙏

[@crashk6]

Given the relay chatter from the span, that tells you the voltage or frequency coming from the sun-run inverter is out of spec when under load. The sun-run backup system inverter clearly can't handle the lower power factor of reactive loads. Which on a modern power systems, with modern loads, is basically any load with a switching PSU, motor controller, lighting ballast, LED lighting, etc. That's an inverter problem. Either badly designed to cope with non unity loads, or just plain faulty.

[@transportevolved]

Agreed. Sadly that was not who was blamed by Sunrun.

[@sebastiant5695]

The inverter is just a regular "Solar" DC inverter for high voltage. Not sure what Sunrun is using as their supplier, but there had been many Inverters which had issues running 240V loads when you have a EVSE attached. Which would be hilarious because in this scenario you need to have the EVSE connected to get the battery power to the Inverter. Steps: Upgrade Inverter Firmware, Upgrade EVSE firmware, update the truck firmware. If it still happens, replace the inverter, replace the EVSE, get the communication module repaired / replaced.

[@transportevolved]

Strangely, it mysteriously started working this morning... - Nikki. - See above ;)

[@cjonesplay1]

Great Video. Sounds like a Ford.

[@dannelson6980]

At this point I would wire a small breaker panel and outlets directly to the inverter for testing. Which inverter is it? The Delta E10_BDI? They seem to have four models the E10_BDI seems to match the vague specs I have seen so far. Once you have the inverter isolated, I would start loading it up with simple resistive like space heaters. Looking at the voltage and waveforms as you change the loads. See what it does loading just one side of the split phase. See how it handles load imbalances, then bring in loads like compressors and heat pumps. I doubt the Delta is a low frequency inverter which handle load imbalances better. If it is a load balance issue wire to balance the loads the best you can, you might have to drop the number of critical circuits. I can't find anything beyond a cut sheet and installer training for the inverter. Maybe it is just bad inverter. At least taking the house wiring out of the equation. Taking the truck out of equation will be be harder, does Kate have any high voltage packs laying around for her conversion project?

[@chrisheath2637]

I wonder if this kind of set-up is easier in the UK, where there is ( for normal domestic) only 240 volts, single phase, to deal with. Also, while control from "wireless" Bluetooth, wi-fi, whatever, is convenient - weak signals, or interference of any kind on said wireless link can cause reliability issues. Switching off all other possible sources of bluetooth etc. may help...

[@erica.5529]

Hello, Im a advid follower of your channel and i was intrigued with the issue your having with the home power sytem and it not handling larger loads and the issues you had with you SPAN panel. Im no F150 or sunrun system engineer but these symptoms are the same isues i expereince with other home battery sytems i install and troubleshoot. Tesla Powerwall and Enphse Encharge products mostly and i also have a couple of Span panels installs under my belt i've assited with. The span panel issue is most likely related to your Enphase microinverter system. SPAN doesnt suport Enphase yet. (I noticed a Enphsae IQ combiner box in the garge next to yrou sub panel) As long as the Enphsae is not tied to the SPAN there shouldnt be a compaditibility issue with teh span. Keep the solar breakers off the SPAN panel for now. SPAN and Enphase have conflicting communication protocols since they both communicate over their AC lines on the same frequencies. The fact that the Sunnrun inverter kicks off under heavy loads to me could be caused from limited current flow. I would focus on the feed lines from the F150 thru the charger and to the Sunrun inverter. Im no expert on what your system design but the symptoms you are seeing is similar to other battery sytems ive worked on. I did read in the F150 manual that theres a manual and a automatic mode to home power sytem perhaps sometings not working due to the mode your operating in? Wouldnt it be funny if the F150 charging port ws limiting the output current to your sunrun inverter. They do specify that you have to lower the battery reserve in the truck otherwise it will limit or shut off power flow to preserve battery charge levels. I know battery temerature is another casue for reduced current flow. The Tesla Powerwall and Enphase Encharge batteries limit charging current when the internal temperature of the battery is below a set level. In the Powerwarr its 58 F or less. The powerwall wont even turn on a solar PV system durring a greid outage if the internal temperature of the battery is under 58F. The powerwall or Encharge system will frequency shift the solar inverter until it warms up or grid is restored. Im thinking something is limiting current flow from the truck battery to the Sunrun inverter since it does fine with smaller loads. The remark you made about distance from the sunrun inverter and truck is referring to cable length or wiring distance beween the truck charging port and the Sunrun inverter not physical distance between them. That EV charger cable and all the wiring thru to the sunrun inverter has to be capable of deilvering the necessary amps needed to deliver to your loads. If your loads are too great you'll experience too much voltage drop between the truck and charger and the inverter possibly even some frequency shifting. Double check the copper wire is adaquate or correctly sized bewtween the charger and inverter and to the load apnel. Check that all the wire connections are tight and the wire is sized properly. Maybe the Sunrun need to be physically right next to the charger so tis wire run is as short as possible. You may need to have your elelctrician do some load current measurement and check for voltage drop or any frequency phase shift that wodl casue the inverter to shut down. Improper wire sizing, poor conections longer wire runs will all contribute to voltage and current drop. These were some ideas i had while watching. I hope you and your team find the solution and perhaps maybe some of this was helpful information or helps you get to the solution. I look forward to your resolution and ill alway be a fan.

[@matthewbaynham6286]

I think if the manual specifies a particular amount of watts output, and it can't output that many watts then you definitely should switch your personality to lawyer mode and get all your money back, including other costs you've had.

[@jeffreymerriam7025]

I would like to have a similar setup some day soon. I REALLY don't understand why the electric car companies are not focusing more on this. It seems like a natural selling point for an electric vehicle: Hook it up to your home and power your home in an emergency. Its unlikely to negatively affect your battery life if you ONLY use it during emergencies. I think the first company to integrate V2L or V2G will make huge money. I suspect they are all waiting for someone to establish a standard. Tesla?

[@pinkelephants1421]

Nissan did this with the Leaf but the plug was CHADEMO. This was in response to the Fukushima nuclear disaster.

[@scottmcshannon6821]

tesla is not interested, they dont want to steal sales from their powerwalls. also, unlike ford, tesla right sized their batteries and dont have the excess capacity.

[@JasonEDragon]

I think that EVs will have more luck in the short term if they move in the direction of having a few electrical outlets available inside the vehicle that you can plug into in an emergency. The Ford Intelligent Power Backup System seems to have a lot of complexity to be able to provide just 9,600 Watts of power. I'm not shocked that it had trouble when higher loads switched on. Similar natural gas generators are commonly installed with 20,000+ Watts of capacity for homes with multiple heat pumps / air conditioners and heavy loads like water pumps. And they come with options to shed high loads if the generator gets overloaded. I wonder if a better design down the road would be a fixed home battery system properly sized to the house. And then those could be topped off by plugging in an EV to feed back power when the home battery gets low.

[@edwardv54]

Great video. Sorry about your problems. I've no expertise in this field, but looking at your setup it seems very complex. Is their any way you can test it's parts separately? Rather can you remove or replace individual components one at a time and see if the rest work together. For instance use something other than the Ford to input power and see if that does or doesn't work. I expect I maybe facing similar problems down the road with a new house and an Aptera I've on order.

[@kabouterik]

Maybe you should talk to Munro live,they used the backup with the ford lightning voorr there whole building.

[@alexmckenna1171]

Ground Source heating might be a good idea, in your large rural location...

[@CrumResearch]

Would a Tesla Powerwall solution be more expensive than the Ford Intelligent Backup Power installation?

[@christopherguy1217]

Sounds like a software issue. These kind of intermittent issues are typically down to the software not handling the input well and failing. I've spent the last 30+ years as a software engineer and I've seen this sort of thing many times. If the wireless communication model is on the passenger side, try moving the truck so the box and truck have a clear line of site to each other. Also try loading the system with resistive circuits such as the resistance heaters to see if it the size of the load or the type of load. Motors create lots of noise on the circuits and the sensors will pick it up. The software needs to deal with this noise and it may be poorly written so it fails.

[@wolfman9999999]

Hmmmm....... I'm thinking that with all of the moving around of circuits, something is miswired. I'm afraid you'll have to probably go through everything and ensure that all is as it should be

[@ozloop69]

Maybe your Ford box is too close to the other electrical items, high-power electrical contents and can’t transmit the right signals for the Bluetooth connection. Maybe the wall box needs to be replaced. This is a possibility because as you pointed out it seems like the electricians and all that work seems to be accurate. Might be that Bluetooth connection to the f150

[@BehroozShariati]

The only benefit of this convoluted system is that when the power goes out, the F150 provides oiwer automatically. As you have mentioned before you even got the F150, a manual switchover using a transfer switch and a 240V generator connection, that is used world-wide as a gas-powered generator. Would an automatic switchover add that much utility instad of walking over and plugging in one cable?

[@dougsheldon5560]

16:15 AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[@FreedomToRoam86]

I think I’m going to try and get ours returned before we open the boxes

[@transportevolved]

It does work!

[@chrismuir8403]

If the Ford system does require a Bluetooth connection, that's a serious design flaw Bluetooth is only for short distance communication, and should not be required since it has a direct wired connection that should be much more reliable.

[@larkintheginger]

Forgive my ignorance, but couldn't you just park the truck in reverse to alleviate the wireless connection issue? Or get a signal booster/relay and put it next to the charger to boost it's connection range? Love the channel 💕

[@notspm9157]

Seems at this point it's an issue with how either Ford marketed it or how it was designed as a whole. I wonder with all that load and having the electrical nearby the charger if that might kick off some RF that is interrupting the communication. Or maybe it's like the ecoflow where when you put on a load like a circular saw that the inverter can't handle it and produces massively wrong voltages.

[@transportevolved]

Strangely, it mysteriously started working this morning... - Nikki. - See above ;)

[@tommays56]

It’s quite normal as devices turn on/off to give inductive feedback and things like the well drive will feed back during The ramp-down/deceleration Just HAVING or NOT having the proper snubber on all the relays of the smart panel is going to give all kinds of feedback the programer did not allow for It would be interesting to know what the common communication standards this industry is using as Industrial devices still use Modbus because it’s so wide spread and the issues our well understood More modern things our starting to use Ethernet IP but again this is and industry wide standard and it’s really better to use one brand

[@transportevolved]

It's strange, because this morning, it started working completely fine. We suspect an OTA took place - Nikki.

[@DarrenWhittington]

Assume mentioned already, but assuming you have had the house PAT tested?

[@didierpuzenat7280]

If I had a Ford 150, and a basic electric installation (ie without all this complex boxes), I would just disconnect the home from the grid during a power cut, then switch off all non vital devices and use a suicide cable between a socket of the truck and a socket of the home. With the battery of the Ford 150 it would probably be enough to run vital equipments for a week. However I assume the fact that nobody does that implies it is a dangerous bad idea ! And of course, even if it works, it is not automatic so somebody has to be home. And if anybody reconnect the home to the grid without disconnecting the suicide cable it may burn a few things, eg the truck and a few servers. So not a good idea at all !

[@jamesphillips2285]

Parking the truck a few feet to the left may allow the wireless connection to work. Boggles the mind that a wireless connection would be needed though. Edit: Maybe ask if an external antenna is available.

[@theheathkitshop2424]

Where are you getting the 3 phase for your pump? The inverter?

[@sbedard9906]

I have just read this famous technological term “Reset”. Then the future discovery, which system needed to be reseted first ? :/

[@Canucker4Life]

I have a suggestion. Swap out your Ford Charger. Maybe that is the problem. That is the one thing you haven't ruled out. Maybe you got a bad charger.

[@Dupont550]

Is a load issue? Too much load on the sunrun system drops the voltage causing the relays to chatter because of low voltage. You might need a bigger inverter or the truck isn’t really pushing 80 amps back to your house.

[@lyledal]

It *really* sounds like you got a bum unit from Sunrun.

[@stevesretroloft]

Is it common in the US for Electric fuses/breakers/switches to be outside?

[@JoePolaris]

Would this setup work only with Ford's , what if you had Quatum2 from ChargeBox with Bi-Di V2G support ? Ostensibly KIA EV6 with a firmware update will support V2L eventually. Others to follow suit.