Upgrading My RV Kitchen Drain with a HepVo

See full blog post - www.loveyourrv....
Buy a HepVo waterless trap - amzn.to/2dH6vsf (Amazon Affiliate Link)
In this video, I give you a look at a replacement for the traditional P-Trap called a HepvO valve. www.hepvo.com/
Being waterless it holds many advantages for RVers most important being less chance of waste tank odors entering the rig. It also saves space which can then be used for extra storage.
I'll show you my installation of one under my kitchen sinks. As usual with RV mods, it wasn't as straight forward an install as I hoped but I got it accomplished with a few extra plumbing adapters and elbows.
The HepvO can be purchased at www.drainmaster...
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[@JosephMullin]

In plumbing the 1 1/2 is the inside diameter. The wall thickness is based on the schedule it is. House plumbing has the same issues. The sink uses what is called schedule 20 which is thin walled and the main pipes are schedule 40 which is a thicker wall. I deal with that conversion everyday at Lowes whee I am the plumbing pro.

[@LoveYourRV]

+Joseph Mullin Thanks! I always learn the most and get the best info from my KZbin commenters. Cheers Ray

[@RVingwithG]

So I just got mine in the mail and it's the 1".1/4 Did I get the wrong size???

[@camposvazquez]

@@LoveYourRV Mr Ray... Do you recommend this valve and his is it holding up... Interested in this to get extra space for dinner water filters.

[@josephcirelli9642]

Great video & love the fact that you hit a snag like the rest of poor souls! As your supervisor of projects, I think Angie was inspecting your job & got her seal of approval, Lol! Love seeing her in your videos! Thanks for all your videos! As a newbie RVer, I’ve done a few of your upgrades already.

[@LoveYourRV]

You're welcome. :)

[@patshaw7663]

You & your nephew assisted by your faithful Beagle did an excellent job on this video! 👍👍

[@RVingwithG]

THERE IT IS !!!! This will make it so I can lower my TUB/Shower pan in the bathroom.! ! SWEET!

[@patron25]

We had the same problem, foul smelling sewer odor from the sink drains. Researched the culprit and found these valves. I replaced both the bathroom and kitchen sink p-traps with the Hepvo valve. Installed them a year ago, no smell since. One thing I did notice was the sinks seemed to drain faster. The wife liked getting the extra room under both sinks. Wish the manufacturers would install them to begin with.

[@K7CARadio]

Excellent video. It will be interesting to see how well it works. My only concern would be if food particles, greese, gunk compromise the rubber seal. If you spliced in some extra water line and routed that up your pipes that would free up a large area under your sink. Space in my camper is at such a premium, that it would be great to eliminate the p-trap. I use that space for pots and pans and it's always a jigsaw puzzle trying to fit everything around the plumbing. Keep us updated if you have any issues.

[@LoveYourRV]

Thanks. They say it has been used in other countries for years. Here are the tech notes - www.hepvo.com/HepvOUSTechGuide.pdf They indicate those things aren't a problem. Guess we'll see. Especially since we are full time and mostly eat in so a lot of dishes get done.

[@brucesannino6181]

You make pretty good videos. Thanks. FYI most of the four plumbing applications, residential, marine, mobile home and RV don't interchange without adaptors. That makes it hard to do a neat, professional looking job. My mind set comes from the marine world, as such I will go to extraordinary lengths to avoid joints and connections. Every joint is a potential leak whether it water, eletricity or sewage. I bought a class C, my last boat is for sale and I'm trying to cast off from ridigid adherence to workmanship that will go to sea. I especially like your video about a permanent storage locker for the sewage hose. Thanks again.

[@LoveYourRV]

Thank you. :) Had the Hepvo valve almost 3 years now, has worked great. Here is an update video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJ-8poyQe9GVaac Cheers! Ray

[@driftersden4439]

Next trip out will take a look at this project.

[@carltonmceachern2358]

Any time you can simplify plumbing is great and those anti syphon valves have been known to stick on occasion plus you gained some space. Maybe you can tack those water supply lines out of the way so they don't snag on something you shove in there. Handy dandy new upgrade.

[@LoveYourRV]

+Carlton McEachern Yes, that's a good idea. I think I'm going to sort out a couple separate storage cubbies in their now.Cheers Ray

[@larrysharp6995]

Rick Dees is correct, You have at least three fittings that you could eliminate to clean up the job, but it works. You can also extend the water feed lines that goes to the faucet and tie wrap them to the drain line to give you added space.

[@LoveYourRV]

+Larry Sharp It definitely turned into a cobbled together job, haha. Good idea about the water lines. I should be able to improve the routing. Cheers Ray

[@RxMixer]

You beat me to the punch, Larry. I was seeing the same thing as well.

[@clinthough7014]

Hey, I love your videos- I'm been following you for almost 10 years and I can't believe the amazing hacks you've come up with - your videos are the best quality and well narrated - I just changed my HEPVO under my my shower after 4 years it had a hole in it - do you have a follow up on your hepvo?

[@LoveYourRV]

Thanks, :) Yes, I've done two follow up videos www.loveyourrv.com/upgrading-rv-drain-system-hepvo-valve/ also showed it in my recent sink upgrade www.loveyourrv.com/lci-flow-max-stainless-steel-rv-faucet-installation-new-sink/ Mine is still working well. Cheers, Ray

[@clinthough7014]

@@LoveYourRV thank you sir - greatly appreciated

[@WhiteFox011]

My only problem with this device is that it DOES eliminate the P trap. If you happen to drop something small and valuable down the sink, there is a fair chance that it will stay in the P trap for recovery. With this new device installed, If you drop your wedding ring down the drain, next stop for it is the grey water tank. Just my opinion.

[@LoveYourRV]

True, that's a drawback. Guess you could install sink screens. Cheers, Ray

[@pipi7731]

It would be nice to reroute those water lines to get more space. I like the cubby hole idea. I was thinking of a small rectangular box that would fit in there. Anyway great video thanks.

[@PhotoAlbert]

It looks a much better idea than the original P Trap. I do wonder how long that rubber membrane will last. Do they give you any indication about the lifetime of the membrane? Thanks for all your terrific videos!

[@LoveYourRV]

Here is from the Hepvo website FAQ "Installed correctly can be expected to have a life expectancy at least equivalent to current water sealed traps. In addition HepvO is guaranteed against defects in materials or manufacturing for a period of 3 years." I did a video showing how it looked after using it a while in the RV - kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3uZnqitnbJpgZI Cheers Ray

[@brianw612]

Have one in my outdoor kitchen, was wondering how it works. Thanks.

[@wanderlust101]

When I'm doing s plumbing job it ALWAYS requires multiple trips to Lowes.

[@LoveYourRV]

Ya same here, my quick jobs usually take most of the day. ;)

[@wanderlust101]

Lowes used to be 15 miles from the house then several years ago they built 1 just a couple miles away. Saved me a fortune in gas just on my plumbing projects alone... LOL.

[@en4259]

Or just buy a bunch of options, then take back once what you don't need.

[@BTNomad]

Looks good!

[@vincepanico2223]

What a great helpful video Thank you so much. I'm gaining confidence

[@rvertv]

how much was the hepo valve ??

[@LoveYourRV]

They go for $22.75 at Drainmaster.com

[@banjowoodsman7675]

Recently sub your channel and I'm enjoying your videos. Please keep posting. I think you mounted it correctly by going vertical. If you had mounted the valve horzontialy, it's only Murphys law that some form of trash would eventually got trapped in the valve. Thank you again.

[@LoveYourRV]

Thanks! - Ray

[@robhill8894]

This would SEEM like a good idea but..., I have seen this exact same design in refrigerator drain tubes where water comes out during defrost into a drain pan below the refrigerator. We in the appliance repair industry call it a "duck bill". Over time, sticky residue builds up to a point where eventually, the thin end (the duck bill) "sticks" together and won't allow water to pass causing the water to climb up the drain tube. In a refrigerator, this turns to ice and then after a few defrost cycles, water pours out the freezer drawer. In ths application, your sink won't drain and you'll have to disconnect this contraption, remove it, and clean it. I suggest just sticking with the old tried and true p-trap.

[@LoveYourRV]

So far I'm extremely pleased with it. Here is the update video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3uZnqitnbJpgZI

[@jynclr]

As with just about any system, it will fail at some point due to wear and tear. This appears to be a fine modification.

[@vidguy007]

Replace something that never breaks with something that will.. Great idea.

[@LoveYourRV]

THere is not much to it, I'm betting it will outlast the RV. hepvo.com/resources/faq/#toggle-id-9 Even so, the small expense is worth it to us to keep the galley tank odor out of the rig. The regular P trap would often lose is water seal during travel. www.fmcmagazine.com/back-issues/52-2010-back-issues/december-2010/2447-waste-management-part-1.html "Long a staple in the plumbing trade, the common P-trap has served us well for many years. However, there is a downside to this type of hardware, especially concerning motorhome P-traps, which generally are used less often than those found in commercial or residential applications. Oftentimes the water seal in a motorhome P-trap is diminished or lost altogether. The jostling that occurs while traveling, improper siphoning action during highway turns and tank evacuations, or simply drying out from nonuse can render the water seal ineffective at preventing holding tank odors from entering the living area of a motorhome. In addition, the P-trap requires diligent maintenance; frequent cleanings and freeze protection are necessary and often overlooked. If neglected, waste residue inside the traps can foster bacteria growth and subsequent odors from within. Enter a new product, the HepvO waterless sanitary valve. Available in the aftermarket and now being used as original equipment by some manufacturers of new motorhomes, the HepvO waterless valve replaces the common P-trap, thereby creating an effective seal against odors while providing additional storage space. (Who reading this would not appreciate having more room for personal effects?) This ingenious valve is constructed with a self-sealing, flexible, silicone-derived membrane that allows water to flow through it but completely closes off when water flow stops, thereby preventing holding tank odors from migrating up and through the sinks, tub, and shower. The HepvO also is an effective air-admittance device, which eliminates the need for mandated antisiphon trap vent devices (ASTVDs) at a fixture's P-trap arm. With no standing water, as is necessary in a P-trap, the HepvO waterless valve eliminates the possibility of bacteria growth and eliminates freeze concern and evaporation issues. (To see a short RV Doctor video about the HepvO, visit kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKW2aKdpatuqbKc .)"

[@jasonbrewer8065]

Hello. I purchased the Hepvo valve for my travel trailer, but cannot find an adapter to go from the exit end of the Hepvo to 1-1/4 PVC pipe. I have been to Lowes, Menards, and a local plumbing store, and they are confused as well. The Hepvo says it is 1-1/2", but it is SMALLER than the 1-1/4" PVC pipe! Can you tell me what exactly you purchased and where you purchased it from to make it fit together? I know this video is 5 years old, but I am just getting started in travel trailering. This is driving me crazy!!! Thank you in advance!!

[@LoveYourRV]

The problem is the RV doesn't use standard house pipe, but thinner walled stuff so I had a hodge podge of fittings to make it work. Recently I ended up replacing my old RV sink and plumbing with standard house 1 1/2 and that allowed me to easily find the fittings at Home Depot. www.loveyourrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/sink-plumbing-scaled.jpg Sink upgrade - www.loveyourrv.com/lci-flow-max-stainless-steel-rv-faucet-installation-new-sink/ Cheers, Ray

[@64maxpower]

That really cleaned things up under there. Could it be installed just before the gray tank and then you could strait pipe all drains.?

[@LoveYourRV]

Yes, anywhere there is a P Trap.

[@1timby]

Hmm that might make a good replacement for "P" traps in homes.....LOL Thanks

[@railroad9000]

Local codes might not allow it in homes. It seems like every city and state is different.

[@CheZfrmdaWestWisc]

It looks like a clog inducer to me

[@alec4672]

Most of the RV plumbing seemes to be borrowed/inspired from mobile homes. They use abs and lots of commission fittings cause these are built basically in a factory. They don't have qualified plumbers installing the stuff just ordinary factory workers that are probably only familiar with one make and model. The way it's done is in the quickest and simplest way possible even if it's uncommon outside the factory. Same reason they use those self contained outlets all they have to do is run wire cut a whole and punch it down vs run wire rough in a box to finished wall thickness then device out. Everything's about being quick with the lest amount of steps

[@LoveYourRV]

Thanks for the info!

[@haydenandbeanzzzrvlifestyl9843]

Hold on I'm confused here everything was making perfect sense following it untill u mentioned job done. I thought what u were proposing was to add the hepvo in line with the standpipe. Then instead it looks like I eliminated the standpipe all together. Isn't that still important to vent the air to avoid pressure issues?

[@LoveYourRV]

There is still an air vent pipe to the roof coming from the galley waste holding tank. I removed the Anti Siphon Vent Trap as it is not longer needed when using the HepVo valve drainmaster.com/main/2011/08/09/waterless-p-trap-hepvo/

[@bernie9728]

I had to check this video out. I have had 4 travel trailers in the 40 plus years that I have been camping and not once have I ever had gray water tank smells inside the RV. I must be doing something wrong.

[@LoveYourRV]

Lucky I guess, a quick search using Google will yield many results. www.google.com/search?q=galley+tnak+smell&oq=galley+tnak+smell&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2.5702j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[@PatrickHayhurst]

It is standard. I just did a remodel of my home bathroom and had the very same problems with the size of things. Just the way drain pipe works...

[@LoveYourRV]

Yes, I ended up learning all about pipe schedule. Will definitely be doing a better job next try, although it's worked well. :) Cheers! Ray

[@RVingwithG]

So I just got mine in the mail and it's the 1".1/4 Did I get the wrong size???

[@LoveYourRV]

I used the 1 1/2 inch HepVo valve for my installation

[@gregorythomas333]

Very kewl valve! Thank you for the video :) Where did you get that paper towel holder shown near the video end? I like the way it seems to hold the roll...and it looks like it is better than I have now. Bonus: Beagle Storage! ;)

[@LoveYourRV]

You're welcome. I got it a local kitchen shop in Victoria BC about 7 years ago. Haven't seen one exactly like it since. Cheers, Ray

[@gregorythomas333]

It looks like a really good design...does it work well? Do you have pictures of it...I would like to see if I can make one if possible :)

[@LoveYourRV]

www.loveyourrv.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Paper-Towel-Rack.jpg

[@gregorythomas333]

Thank you very much!

[@rickdees251]

Your issue was because plumbing measurements are "ID" (inside diameter) and "thin wall" vs "thick wall" PVC pipe have different "OD" (outer diameter). Nothing that can't be worked out, as you demonstrated. Cheers Ray.

[@LoveYourRV]

Thanks. The thin walled stuff seemed to be hard to find, at least at hardware stores around here.

[@rickdees251]

Love Your RV Here's the thing Ray. Drain lines don't have to withstand the 24/7 pressure which water "supply" pvc pipes are exposed to from being under constant water pressure. So drain lines are typically "thin walled" while pipes that supply water are thicker. Those pipes are typically schedule 40 or 80 but they are "OD" so they use the same fillings. RV manufactures use what they use and are not subject to standards like homes that are inspected during their being built. RV are not subject to the same regulations and standards homes and other buildings are. So! they can cut corners where structures cannot. Same goes with Boats. Always a fan, cheers,

[@LoveYourRV]

Ahhh, that makes sense, thanks for the info. :)

[@sharonb5965]

I'd like to have something like that for my house kitchen so I can put in a a deeper sink.

[@lucyb2017]

Nice Video, I have a question not related to this video, but about your elephant feet, how are they working for you?

[@LoveYourRV]

I really like them, makes setting up a little simpler. Rig feels just as stable as when I was using blocks. I did a bunch of boondocking this winter and they held up well even on the rocky soils adn I didn't baby them. Seem to be made from a very strong plastic.

[@mackenziehopkins8065]

I'm wondering if this could be used in my drain for my washing machine in my RV?

[@LoveYourRV]

Should work our sink drains pretty fast with it and RV washing machines don't hold much water being smaller sized.

[@mackenziehopkins8065]

Ok thanks so much. I'll give it a try.

[@TommyboyGTP]

looks good

[@michelp583]

Interesting Mod. I am looking at those white water pipes. Never tough of re-installing them along the wall so you get full storage usage. I am also wondering how you get all your tools. Do you carry them with you or do you have a stash in BC.

[@LoveYourRV]

My brother in law lives in Victoria and has a great shop, so anything major I pull into his driveway and borrow stuff. I do carry a pretty good selection onboard, though for minor repairs, upgrades, and maintenance. - www.loveyourrv.com/tools-and-maintenance-items-for-the-full-time-rv-life/

[@JOHNNYEXPLORES718]

nice video ty for sharing stay safe out there :)

[@buiorg]

Hi Ray have you folks ever had problems with mice getting into the rig

[@LoveYourRV]

Only twice in 5 years and good old spring traps nipped that in the bud pretty quick. ;) Each time I made the mistake of leaving food in the basement storage, we have never had them in the living quarters. If you're interested in possible solutions there is a big long forum thread on my RV Happy Hour website on the topic. - rvhappyhour.com/forums/topic/mice/

[@KennethSievers]

Nice!!!

[@stefantrestyn2827]

First thing I noticed was those water lines. I would splice them to get more room in there. I don't understand why you don't need a vacuum release

[@LoveYourRV]

Will do. Because there is no P-Trap it's not needed. There still is a roof vent for the waste tank, but no secondary venting in the form of an Anti-Siphon Trap Vent is needed as there is no P-Trap holding water anymore.

[@stefantrestyn2827]

makes sense. That same type of valve is in my shower drain

[@rat4spd]

Is that your shower drain coming into the back of that line at a 45?

[@LoveYourRV]

rat4spd No. it's the galley waste tanks vent pipe to the roof.

[@fordfan3179]

Still working OK?

[@LoveYourRV]

Yes, working great!

[@sciberras89]

The problem with the different pipe sizes and multiple store trips is that your not a plumber lol

[@joeashbubemma]

That's basically a check valve. Could have left the P-trap in place along with the vent.

[@LoveYourRV]

The idea was to get rid of the p trap and antisiphon valve to simplify things and gain more storage space. Also, P traps end up stinking and you have to worry about freezing and cracking.

[@DeepSnowRider]

P-traps have been used in plumping over 200 years and work just fine. Adding some junk like this waterless trap is unneeded, and the waterless trap gets filled with particles of food and whatever you put down the drain.

[@LoveYourRV]

HepVo valve has been in there for almost 2 years, so much better than the P Trap. The water would slosh out during travel and kitchen waste tank odor would smell up the rig. Here is a video I did after it had been in there a decent amount of time, no food particles - kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3uZnqitnbJpgZI www.fmcmagazine.com/back-issues/52-2010-back-issues/december-2010/2447-waste-management-part-1.html "Long a staple in the plumbing trade, the common P-trap has served us well for many years. However, there is a downside to this type of hardware, especially concerning motorhome P-traps, which generally are used less often than those found in commercial or residential applications. Oftentimes the water seal in a motorhome P-trap is diminished or lost altogether. The jostling that occurs while traveling, improper siphoning action during highway turns and tank evacuations, or simply drying out from nonuse can render the water seal ineffective at preventing holding tank odors from entering the living area of a motorhome. In addition, the P-trap requires diligent maintenance; frequent cleanings and freeze protection are necessary and often overlooked. If neglected, waste residue inside the traps can foster bacteria growth and subsequent odors from within. Enter a new product, the HepvO waterless sanitary valve. Available in the aftermarket and now being used as original equipment by some manufacturers of new motorhomes, the HepvO waterless valve replaces the common P-trap, thereby creating an effective seal against odors while providing additional storage space. (Who reading this would not appreciate having more room for personal effects?) This ingenious valve is con-structed with a self-sealing, flexible, silicone-derived membrane that allows water to flow through it but completely closes off when water flow stops, thereby preventing holding tank odors from migrating up and through the sinks, tub, and shower. The HepvO also is an effective air-admittance device, which eliminates the need for mandated antisiphon trap vent devices (ASTVDs) at a fixture's P-trap arm. With no standing water, as is necessary in a P-trap, the HepvO waterless valve eliminates the possibility of bacteria growth and eliminates freeze concern and evaporation issues. (To see a short RV Doctor video about the HepvO, visit kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKW2aKdpatuqbKc.)"

[@piaburnette6835]

:D love your dog

[@michaelprivate9962]

measure twice, cut once! 😉

[@Sea1fly]

How do u unclog in time

[@LoveYourRV]

Sorry, I can't make sense of what you are asking?

[@AJ_MD]

HepvO is pain in high use drains. Blocks an is difficult to remove. Removal instructions are impossible to find.

[@LoveYourRV]

I've been using it for 6 years now. Live full-time in the RV and do dishes every day. Haven't had any problems, never a clog. Easy to remove. Just unscrew it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJ-8poyQe9GVaac

[@10rninjariderzx]

Lol the fat pipe aka "schedule 40" vs the thin pipe aka "schedule 20" lol

[@wanabewest]

what is wrong with 850 people that think this would replace the sink vent the trap maybe for a while.

[@LoveYourRV]

I've had it installed for 5 years now with no problems and of course, it has got rid of the tank odors. Here was a 2-year update - kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJ-8poyQe9GVaac

[@robertbutler8004]

You would have tested for leaks before showing us!!

[@007nadineL]

1:38 it looks just like a flesh light Omg

[@crawfordoverton3299]

you took out you vent pipe that is a no no in the plumping world the only thing your new part you put in was to replace the p trap in any angle. that's all it's for it's not for venting. Inside it is a diagram it's only purpose is to keep gasses from coming back from your sewer or you holding tanks that's it.

[@LoveYourRV]

I took out the anti-siphon valve for the drain, there is still a vent pipe to the roof from the holding tank. See - www.rvdoctor.com/2001/01/recreation-vehicle-waste-management.html "In addition to ASTVDs, there must still be at least one vent protruding through the roof to allow sewer gases out of that holding tank; ASTVDs are not primary vents. The better-designed waste systems will have ASTVDs installed at every P-trap as well as a direct vent running from each holding tank up and through the roof. Remember though, with the advent of the HepvO waterless sanitary valve, ASTVDs are not required. With the HepvO, eliminating the ASTVD and the P-trap should result in more cubic inches of storage space under every sink."

[@LoveYourRV]

You can see it in this update video coming off at a slanted angle below the HepVo valve - kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3uZnqitnbJpgZI

[@davidmcconnell8690]

:-)) :-))

[@RussellBond13]

They use ABS pipe in trailers because it's lighter than PVC. Nothing like an instructional video from somebody that doesn't know what they're doing.

[@LoveYourRV]

It wasn't ABS vs PVC that was the problem. The problem was the sink drain used schedule 20 ABS but the main pipe used schedule 40 ABS. It was kindly pointed out by several commenters. Learn something new every day. Also, none of the local plumbing stores seemed to have the adapter pieces required, so it led to a cobbled together affair, but it all works, no leaks. :) Cheers Ray

[@RussellBond13]

You commented at 7:11 if it was on RV and Marine type plumbing was different from House plumbing, that's what I was explaining about the use of ABS but sizing is the same.

[@tsail40]

Love Your RV l

[@detjonny]

I wouldnt trust that kind of traps

[@LoveYourRV]

Its worked well for over 6 years now. We live full time in our RV

[@MrSouthwestplumber]

garbage had one installed for a month rv started smelling , stay with the pee traps

[@LoveYourRV]

I've had the opposite experience: in there for 7 years of full-time RVing now, and no smell. The P trap smelled often, especially after a rough drive washed the liquid out of it. Maybe you got a dud or had an install issue. I remove mine and wash it out every once in a while www.loveyourrv.com/flushing-out-the-stinky-galley-kitchen-rv-waste-tank/

[@simonsmith2642]

Yeah thats going to work for awhile eh. Itll work real good to eh. Then one day youre going to be at the drive thru at Timmy's right, and youre going to be like, hey whats that smell eh? Whats that all aboot right? And your buddy is going to be like oh you betcha, somethings smelling up the whole rig eh. Well ya got some stuff in the hole thing there right, and its holding that tube open there now, so what are you going to do aboot that eh? So ya finish your Timmy's because, you know, its Timmy's and ya cant waste that right. So after you finish your cup of coffee there, you head to the hardware store, and you rip that piece of garbage out of there right, like rip it all out eh, and put back your P trap and studor valve eh. And every year before you fucking come back down here and drive like ass holes, you can just pop a new one on in 10 mins and youre good to go for the year. No mess either. Unless you spill your Timmy's, eh..

[@LoveYourRV]

Hi Simon, HepVo valve has been in there for almost 2 years, so much better than the P Trap which would lose its water during travel and waste tank odor would smell up the rig. Here is a video I did after it had been in there a while - kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3uZnqitnbJpgZI btw, Tim's is terrible now was bought out by a big conglomerate and went way downhill. Overpriced garbage fast food and junk coffee. :( Cheers, Ray