Inigo San Millan on Mitochondria, Lactate & Zone 2 || Episode

[@luiscolon921]

I've listened to a few interviews with Inigo and this was by far the best and most pertinent from my point of view. Interviewer asked key and pointed questions and let the guest answer to the best of his ability without mindless interruptions.

[@Upsidestrength]

I really appreciate your feedback! Thanks for taking the time to comment 🙌

[@AR-lz2br]

Exactly, I hate when the interviewers want to be the protagonist by interrupting the interviewee over and over pretending that they know a lot about the topic and trying to impress the audience and the interviewee. Good job on this interview!

[@bamicus9342]

Totally agree, other interviews try to “out doctor”, the Doctor!

[@sashabates448]

Its already been said but great interview I really appreciated how you let the expert do the talking

[@Upsidestrength]

Much appreciated, thank you!

[@oilesquire]

As a layman who understands the difference in correlation and causation very well, I will say that 240 ish mins a week of Z2 training combined with persistent dietary changes contributed to lowering my triglycerides from 110 to 55 to 40 (yes, 40), drove LDL-P way down and improved my insulin sensitivity score (by NMR) by 40% in 12 months. And it was EASY. That was with one day a week of VO2 Max training (which sucked). And Dr. Milan's Attia interview was my epiphany on point. Fatty acids - burn baby burn! I'm 56. TY!

[@Upsidestrength]

Thanks for your comment and happy training my friend!

[@BollywoodMediaOnline]

In your opinion, do you think the heavy emphasis on Zone 2 training is what most contributed to the lowering of insulin sensitivity and TGs, than doing HIIT? I hear mixed things on what helps fat loss/insulin sensitivity - HIIT vs Z2 - if only running 3-4x per week for example??

[@oilesquire]

​@@BollywoodMediaOnline I don't think insulin sensitivity is well understood yet because there are several variables, including genetics, and I'm no one to speak into anything but my own N = 1. But I think serious strength training, caloric deficit/balance and mitochondrial function are the biggest modifiable factors. I perform Zone 5 training only 3x month because I'm 57 now and my recovery budget is taxed by my intense strength training 2x in 8 days. I rec to friends who ask to use an 8 day training cycle.

[@hikerJohn]

@@oilesquire I'm 70 and I do zone 3 more often than that but I do zone 2. Yesterday I did 5.5 hours with 80% of it in zone 2, Would have been more than 80% if not for the hills so I even got into zone 4 a few times and zone 1 13%.

[@coachbrendan]

OUTSTANDING in every respect

[@thomjo662]

Super interview... j en ai encore appris un paquet , même si par moment c est très technique , quand tu as parlé de la zone 2 toutes les explications données avant étaient claire. Let's Go Z2 ❤️

[@Upsidestrength]

Merci Thom ☺️☺️

Really good questions, a few times I thought "what about that" and the next question you ask is exactly what I wanted to know!

[@Upsidestrength]

I appreciate your comment! Thanks for the support 👌 hope you enjoy some other episodes!

[@Northwindbreeze]

Awesome work both of you, thank you.

[@Upsidestrength]

Thanks mate

[@Leswatts]

Merci pour le partage, j'ai moi-même partagé ta vidéo. A +

[@Upsidestrength]

Un grand merci à toi!

[@Spark_MTB_BMX_Coaching]

Fantastic interview with some great questions.

[@Upsidestrength]

Thanks man much appreciated 🙏

[@Jagged_Ice]

Very good interview. Appreciate this breakdown on zone 2 benefits.

[@Upsidestrength]

Thanks a lot!

[@jeffreyharrison4045]

Excellent episode! Thanks!

[@Upsidestrength]

Merci!

[@benoit_coaching]

Wow thank you Sean! That's was great to hear ! Very interesting about training in both zone

[@Upsidestrength]

Merci benoit 🫶

[@michaeldallery1539]

Merci à Inigo et à toi pour ce super podcast !

[@Upsidestrength]

Merci à toi!

[@SethRamesh]

Fantastic discussions. Thank you

[@Upsidestrength]

Thank you 🙏

[@runningrenaissance5156]

Excellent podcast !! Merci à vous

[@Upsidestrength]

Merci à toi!

[@tfmajka13]

Thanks, you asked a lot of the questions I wanted to have answered.

[@Upsidestrength]

Glad to hear it. Thanks for your feedback 💪

[@imadogsass6717]

Regarding a cool down to aid recovery, does it take away a stimulus that would improve performance in the longer term? I understand using it as a method to aid recovery in stage races but does it have a place during training?

[@Upsidestrength]

I think it does have a place. Helping your body recycle what’s been predicted during HI is always a good idea IMO

[@christophalcmeonides8537]

GREAT INFO ! Thank you ... both !

[@Upsidestrength]

Thank you

[@Goldo1968]

Carbs best before / after for those training Zone 2 4xweek 60’?

[@Upsidestrength]

I’d say after. Definitely not before. You want to maximize fat oxidation and carbs will inhibit that to some extent

[@drdanthelizzyman]

Excellent!

[@Upsidestrength]

Many thanks!

[@moneyfindersllc6236]

WHY, Are the Closed Captions in French, and Entirely Unavailable in English???

[@daness40]

I can see closed captions in English. I just changed it in settings.

[@Upsidestrength]

Thanks Dane 😉

[@cedriclequere2152]

Purée ça c’est un invité 🤩🤩🤩🔥

[@Upsidestrength]

❤️

[@StevenBrandesWI]

Good interview.

[@Upsidestrength]

Thanks a lot Steven I appreciate the feedback

[@cliffcox7643]

55:20, so the question is, should you be at HIGH z2 or LOW Z2? What was the answer?

[@Upsidestrength]

Away from top Z2 most of the time then sometimes go push the top!

[@dickieblench5001]

Below the point where your breathing begins to pick up

[@spanky590]

@@Upsidestrength any idea why Peter attia describes ISM zone 2 as low tempo in a 6 zone model? He calls this training "lactate zone 2".

[@JamesBoz]

Very informative!

[@Upsidestrength]

Thanks man!

[@yoanalfred3525]

Toujours intéressant. Quel est ton avis sur les appareils qui mesurent le lactate? Ca devrait permettre de calibrer les zones avec précision.

[@Upsidestrength]

C’est des outils qui sont utilisés avec beaucoup de succès depuis très longtemps. Donc je n’ai rien contre. Ça reste un seul point de donnée qui peut être influencé par énormément de facteurs (respiration, fatigue, nutrition, altitude, etc…) donc c’est toujours une bonne idée à mon avis de prendre plusieurs points de données avant de tirer des conclusions!

[@patricklachetta7644]

So Type I muscle fibers use more fatty acids as a fuel source and type II more glycolytic as fuel?

[@Upsidestrength]

The essence is this, yes!

[@jono1457-qd9ft]

​@@UpsidestrengthNo, that is incorrect. Explain why you believe it is?

[@RXP91]

I never cool down, thought it was a waste of time! Now I'll start!

[@Upsidestrength]

Let’s goooo

[@k.endurance_optimization9257]

Merci beaucoup pour ce partage de connaissances. Quelle humilité malgré son niveau c'est inspirant !

[@Upsidestrength]

Merci K 💪

[@noahtrapp23]

What is then the end procuct of glycolysis?? He said lactate is always there after glucose breakdown? But then says pyruvate is the end product ?

[@noahtrapp23]

Anaerobic glycolysis = lactate and aérobic glycolysis = pyruvate ?

[@Upsidestrength]

Technically it’s lactate that is the end product because of the physiological equilibrium between lactate and pyruvate. Although one can convert into the other and back.

[@Upsidestrength]

There is no aerobic or anaerobic. Glycolysis is what is is = 10 steps to break down sugar into lactate.

[@CarnivoreDMD]

Methylene Blue 😮??? For mitochondrial health. Any research you support?

[@markmetternich7629]

No. Even if a supplement helped mitochondria, it be at an infinitesimal small fraction of what simple zone 2 training can do. And the science behind these supplements are shady to say the least.

[@baptistelefloch725]

Bonjour Sean ! Je ne suis pas sur de bien comprendre la partie au sujet des catécholamines produites à haute intensité et leur effet vasoconstricteur ? En quoi cela à un impact sur la desaturation des muscles non impliqué à l'exercice (si j'ai bien compris) ? Merci de ta réponse et bonne journée/soirée à toi !

[@Upsidestrength]

Dans le domaine sévère j’observe chez les gens entraînés une desaturation au niveau de l’oxymetrie des muscles non impliqués. Je ne sais pas encore pourquoi ce phénomène prend place!

[@dickieblench5001]

partition and focus on each energy system

[@Upsidestrength]

But if they all work all the time, how can you? 🤯🙂

[@dickieblench5001]

​@@Upsidestrength In training I mean. Which energy system do I want to train today?

[@dickieblench5001]

@@Upsidestrength they don't all work all the time! The glycolytic pathway is not activated below LT1. Below LT1 you are 100% aerobic

[@jono1457-qd9ft]

​​​@@dickieblench5001no, that is incorrect. Glycolysis produces lactate as aerobic fuel and a small amount of ATP anaerobically. Glycolysis and Glycogenolysis are always active pathways regardless of exercise intensity. We can train at every intensity during training. No need to isolate. This idea of training just one intensity per session is just a current training fad.

[@dickieblench5001]

@@jono1457-qd9ft have you studied the work of Stephen Seiler

[@frominjuredtoathletic]

I am starting to use zone 2 because I often injured myself

[@Upsidestrength]

Happy training!

[@borasumer]

Very good information to learn how body reacts and behaves to the different training styles. But unfortunately for us recreational cyclists, it is really hard to come up with practical outcomes from any of these interviews, rather than riding at zone 2 the majority of the time we spend on trainjng which i think it very well adopted and acknowledged by cyclists. I'd like to hear more how to train based on these facts with perhaps an example workout program for someone who has lets say 10 to 15h a week time to trainer. How to schedule the rides, how the rides should be constructed etc. Thanks for the interview, amazing job 👌

[@Upsidestrength]

Thanks for the comment! I know Dylan Johnson has some great videos on that, I recommend that you check out his channel!

[@borasumer]

@@Upsidestrength I will definitely, thanks for the recommendation, cheers

[@slowcyclist4324]

But from that you can build a very practical training plan. 1) spend most of your time in zone 2.ideally, just buy a trainer and ride indoors all the time for maximum efficiency. 2) do specific vo2 max intervals to raise your vo2 max on pre-determines sessions I’m a completely recreational cyclist, and for the past year I’ve ridden outdoors for less than 10% of my rides. Of the 350-400 hours of cycling last year, less than 50 were outdoors in my bike; the rest were on my trainer doing specific training zones.

[@ricf9592]

@@slowcyclist4324 Me too. However, I'm doing 850 hours. Slow cadence, high resistance but low HR. VO2 Max through the roof.

[@per2046]

@Upside Strength or anyone in the know: 1:02:00 Cooling down after HIT workout. Will this low intensity (Z2?) cooldown bypass the resting metabolism and force the body to push glucose and lactate back into the cells, thus clearing the blood and provide quicker recovery? For best results, should Z2 be done for 1-11/2 hours 5-6 days per week followed by say by 3 x 3 or 4 x 4 Z4 HIT intervals for 15 min twice per week followed by 20 min Z2 cooldown only on HIT days when lactate levels are high?

[@Upsidestrength]

Hey Per, to your first point, I think this is likely the case. Although I don’t have any papers to cite here. Z2 should be done as much as you can given your time availability and progressed over time via volume and duration (years of progression here). But obviously start where you are in terms of volume and build step by step. No point in doing 12h if 6h will give the necessary stimuli. For the high intensity it really depends what you’re targeting and what your needs are. That might change from person to person and from one month to the next 👍

[@quengmingmeow]

In the Attia podcast with this guest, it was said (I am paraphrasing) that you can do 1.5 hours of zone 2 training to get the maximum mitochondrial gain, and then end that workout with 15 minutes of high intensity to hit VO2 max…and you won’t negate the mitochondrial gains with the high intensity after zone 2. Conversely, if you did the high intensity first, you would not get the optimal gain and if you interspersed high intensity every 15-20 minutes, you are getting a very sub optimal mitochondrial gain.

[@lui8885]

I really hope someone can help me and answer this question. I have to stand a lot in my work, I see that it is easier for my co-workers, but it is very hard for me. I need sleep more than other people too. Could training in zone 2 help with that?

[@Upsidestrength]

I’d tackle the following in order and using small, manageable steps to build long-lasting habits: - Sleep - Strength training - Zone 2 🥰

[@jarednelson4272]

How does one "find" Zone 2 other than lactate parameters?

[@Upsidestrength]

You can also use ventilatory data and muscle oximetry data.

[@KD_cycling]

I watched another interview with Inigo and he says that the old school method is very reliable. Basically you should be able to hold a conversation while exercising in z2 but it should be a little laboured. If you were on the phone to someone they could understand you fine but they would know that you're exercising. If you're too short of breath to speak in full sentences then you're going too hard

[@RXP91]

@@Upsidestrength how would you use the muscle ox data? Do you have an article on it? I currently use the zones from a lactate threshold test on my garmin.

[@vitormila3951]

Nice interview I do cross training 1 h running, 3 h cycling and 1 h rowing inddor on the same day I train 3 days a week 15 h, on sundays I push the engine in the glycolytic zone whether cycling, rowing, running I do one every sunday, no It's just that I'm a fanatic, but I've been training in ketosis for two years and I've trained in metabolic fasting I've already trained with 24 hours without eating it's impressive, sometimes I eat some carbs but I prefer to be low for me it works and it's good for my health and the mitochondria like ketones better, i can speak for myself i used to train in cycling groups and my gliogen broke within 2 hours i was metabolically inflexible i couldn't burn fat but i'm not a diet fanatic but i feel good this way and my health has improved, i like san milan but i could invite my master phil maffettone he trilled mark alen 5 times ironaman champion he already used zone two training in the late 70's he is brilliant i started running barefoot thanks to him phil is bril hante as a doctor and trainer

[@Upsidestrength]

If you have a contact with Phil I’m interested to have him on 🙏

[@utoktome]

Très bon sujet. Merci bien. Sur la zone 2, tu lui as posé la question 'minute 55'34" dans quelle partie de zone 2 il est plus intéressant de travailler, je ne suis sur d'avoir compris la réponse :)

[@Upsidestrength]

Je pense que ça dépend du temps que tu passes!

[@jcferrer2826]

Wahou quelle claque cette vidéo !!! merci pour le partage, je m'abonne de ce pas ;-)

[@Upsidestrength]

Merci JC ✌️

[@jcferrer2826]

@@Upsidestrength Je viens de tester ce week-end et c'est déroutant !!! il y 15 jours sortie de 90 km à 28 de moyenne pour 1500 de D+ ; pas mal de temps en Z3 et Z4 et le lendemain aucunes courbatures. Hier, 1h de Fatmax sur home-trainer et j'ai ce matin les cuisses en feu :-) Comment l'expliquer ? j'ai une mauvaise endurance fondamentale ?

[@Upsidestrength]

@@jcferrer2826 si t’as pas l’habitude de ces intensités ça va être dure au début!

[@MultiCanEman]

What is the zone 2 heart bpm??

[@Upsidestrength]

It’s different for every person!

[@MultiCanEman]

@@Upsidestrength How can we find it then?

[@KD_cycling]

@@MultiCanEman It is different for each individual but if you know an accurate resting HR and an accurate realised max HR there are rough guides for HR zones (Strava, training peaks etc provide these). Inigo also recommended in another video using a pretty basic method. You should be able to have a conversation with full sentences while in z2 but it should be slightly laboured. If you were on the phone with someone they should be able to understand you fine but they will know that you're exercising.

[@MultiCanEman]

@@KD_cycling Thanks for explanation.

[@kalaras3]

As a recreational cyclist and runner i highly respect the work this gentleman has done. As a medical doctor though, i have come to realise that the diet is maiinly responsible for all of our horrible diseases, including type 2 diabetes ,cancer etc. People are being cured,as we speak of their type 2 diabetes implementing a plant based diet. Does this mean we should not train? of course not. Lets not forget all those great vegan athletes out there. Scott Jurek being the most representative in the ultrarunning community.

[@Upsidestrength]

Nutrition is a pillar of health! Absolutely !

[@timmclaughlin1787]

Totally

[@quengmingmeow]

Totally agree. Our society incentivizes instant gratification and “continuing my bad habits by taking drugs to mitigate problems” instead of making real change in nutrition and exercise over time.

[@jc7887]

I think it is important to understand that plant based does not mean vegan. I think cutting back meat significantly and prioritizing vegetables and fruits is far superior to going all vegan. I have had incredible results by doing that.

[@DadBadGaming]

Zone 2, isn't that ridiculously easy? like lower than 125bpm?

[@Upsidestrength]

It’s easy for sure yes

[@dickieblench5001]

One hour at zone 2 with no interruptions will make your legs sore because you only use type 1 fibers and force them to work alone

[@aarondcmedia9585]

@@dickieblench5001 never been my experience

[@markmetternich7629]

Awesome gold and diamonds worth every second!

[@Upsidestrength]

Thank you sir!

[@ajskdlfla]

Volume is way too low

[@Upsidestrength]

Thanks 😊

[@SpeedBoosted911]

How important is CADENCE for maximizing Aerobic System growth? For example: i do 170watt at 140bpm on 75 cadence, which feels natural to me, but when i bump cadence to 85-90 my HR rises to 145-148. Which is the best option for Aerobic system development: 1) 170w at 75 cadence at 140bpm or 2) 150w at 90 cadence at 140 rpm?

[@Upsidestrength]

I'd say that both are viable options. Then we can also argue that this type of training wants to target T1 fibers and to prioritize their recruitment we should decrease the force production requirement on each pedal stroke, and so increase the cadence. That's why tempo work is often done at low cadences. In that case we want T2a fibers, and we can better recruit them via bigger motor units, which require more force produced in order to be recruited.

[@SpeedBoosted911]

@@Upsidestrength thank you for the detailed answer, now it's understood :)

[@Upsidestrength]

@@SpeedBoosted911 you bet!

[@eugeniebreida]

Wished for more on health and disease, less on performance athletes..

[@Upsidestrength]

Thanks for the feedback 😘

[@cliffcox7643]

100% on board w Z2 training, but remember cyclist, Z2 alone will NOT make you fast.. You need to work on your top end, and Z2 only makes you more efficient at your top end.. But if you don't use it, you'll lose it..... your top end that is....

[@Upsidestrength]

100% agreed! Z2 is base, then build the rest up intelligently!

[@hikerJohn]

@@Upsidestrength Zone 2 moves as you get more fit. The more you train near the 1st lactate threshold (LT1) the faster you get at that HR and the higher zone 2 moves up close to the LT2. (as explained by Scott Johnston)

[@timmclaughlin1787]

I get lost on trying to understand the conversation. Over the top.

[@Upsidestrength]

Listen again! Thanks for tuning in Tim

bad sound

[@Upsidestrength]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@lordfresh]

Turn off the music please

[@Upsidestrength]

Turn up the sound 💪😤🤘

[@hikerJohn]

Too many podcasts where the guest is saying exactly the same as many other podcasts so what's the point in watching/listening to such LONG podcasts if nothing unique is being discussed . . . ??? It's so prevalent that KZbin is flooded with people trying to capitalize on the fares "Optimize your Mitochondria"

[@Upsidestrength]

Thanks for your support 🫶

[@markmetternich7629]

Which this interview is not!

[@hikerJohn]

@@markmetternich7629 Tell me what's new in this podcast over all the others that would justify such a long discussion.

[@markmetternich7629]

@@hikerJohn if time is so important to you why are you wasting it debating with me?

[@hikerJohn]

@@markmetternich7629 I'm not debating you. I dont debate morons

[@taplubambhos2869]

Raise the damn volume can barely hear his mumbling so frustrating

[@Upsidestrength]

Thanks for the comment mate 👌

[@ktakashismith]

Host seems to have a pathological fixation upon race/geography as the determining factor for human performance. San Millan is not a geneticist, nor is he an evolutionary biologist. Perhaps focus the conversation on controlling the modifiable variables, rather than trying to explain athletic shortcoming as a matter of "not being African".

[@Upsidestrength]

I was interested to hear his perspective as it seems like different populations from different environments have distinct mitochondrial characteristics! Thanks for supporting the podcast 👏

[@imadogsass6717]

Unusual gripe, especially in the arena of sports science?

[@ktakashismith]

@@imadogsass6717 Are we discussing sports science, or eugenics here?

[@kevinhaskins6619]

Understanding that there are genetic differences in a population with some of them conferring advantage (depending on the environment) is not a moral failing. It is a natural question that scientists ask because their aim isn't to pacify your sensibilities but to find observable truths. Eugenics would imply that either the interviewer or the interviewee has the motive of using artificial selection to promote the superiority of one population over another. And the "superiority" word gets warped because of course one phenotype is superior to another when you are looking at different environments.

[@bobborghartgooglable]

Although a great mind and researcher I think Inigo is dead wrong when it comes to nutrition. Most hunter gatherer societies are primarily meat-based - IF they are still allowed to hunt the big animals they would like to and as they used to be able to do. As humans have been apex predators for millions of years. See Miki Ben-Dor's studies.

[@markmetternich7629]

So where do you think he was wrong? He said that these societies got their carbohydrate mostly from plants.